There's goes my trip to India . . .

news reports don't explain WHY. Why? They're still under attack.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/11/26/india.attacks/index.html

They don't know who is responsible. One group has claimed responsibility, but it's not known what their motivations are or if in fact they were the real perpetrators.

Deccan Mujahideen is the name of the group.

right, I'm watching it. They are speculating it's Islamic Kasmir/Pakistani groups aligned with Al Qaeda.

fuckers

Who knows. Time will tell.

It is more difficult for terrorists to strike in more developed countries, therefore, they kill Westerners who are in less developed areas.

The goal is to kill infidels. Doesn't matter where they are.

They're holding hostages, and it was gunmen not car-bombs. I think they have a further point to make. Of course they're terrorists all the same, but I doubt wholesale killing of Westerners was their aim.

I actually know (knew) quite a few people from Mumbai, or at least with family from there. I bet they are really distressed right now. It won't necessarily be the risk posed to their family and friends (which as Indians will be reasonably low) it's the fact that something so horrible has happened in their city. It's mind boggling to imagine this happening somewhere like Cambridge or Sheffield. It would make me feel sick.

And selfishly, India is high on my want-to-see list too. I guess this is what they call luck - I didn't win the lottery, I didn't go on a trip round the world and I wasn't staying in a 5 star hotel in India this week.

They were asking for people with British or American passports. I'd say it's fairly clear who they're targeting.

It's times like this that I'm glad Australia is so unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

Apparently there's now two groups claiming responsibility.

This is all happening at the same time as the main airport in Thailand has been 'taken over' by protestors. So far that's fairly peaceful other than being a problem for travellers.

Oh I know that they are targeting British & US citizens. What I mean is they did not simply plant a bomb in a location known to be frequented by Westerners. As has happened in tourist resorts in the past (as I know you know).

I'm not downplaying this in any way, just suggesting that we will hear a specific protest/ demand at some point. Possibly not from either of the groups currently claiming responsibility, but you never know - there might be a media ban on specifics at present so as not to encourage this action in future.

One theory is that they're trying to shake up the mainly hindu population of India.

I just hope the people they're holding hostage are not killed.

I know this is twisted, but every time I read or hear something about this tragic situation I get this stupid song running through my head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnuzH1qdBZ4

Aliantha;508661 wrote:
They were asking for people with British or American passports. I'd say it's fairly clear who they're targeting.

It's times like this that I'm glad Australia is so unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

Apparently there's now two groups claiming responsibility.

This is all happening at the same time as the main airport in Thailand has been 'taken over' by protestors. So far that's fairly peaceful other than being a problem for travellers.

I am fairly sure that they would take you for good measure.... cousin. ;)

Deccan Mujahidin is now said to be a front name, probably for Indian Mujahidin.

One of the places hit was the Mumbai Jewish community center, and the rabbi in charge is reported a hostage.

Got Fox News playing in the background as I start cooking.

See the DVD, "The Third Jihad". Pretty impressive.

www.TheThirdJihad.com

Over 120 people confirmed dead now.

They're cowardly murdering whacko bastards, but damn, they're effective, efficient, well-organized cowardly murdering whacko bastards.
I'll guess that the core of the group who did it have experience in a regular, disciplined army. Not a bunch of bandits as are found in the Talleban in Afghanistan or the tribal areas of Pakistan, but a regular army.

ZenGum;508943 wrote:
They're cowardly murdering whacko bastards, but damn, they're effective, efficient, well-organized cowardly murdering whacko bastards.
I'll guess that the core of the group who did it have experience in a regular, disciplined army. Not a bunch of bandits as are found in the Talleban in Afghanistan or the tribal areas of Pakistan, but a regular army.

They look like teenagers from the pictures. They start them young in the Madrassas. When you have 12 year olds cutting off heads by the time they are 16 they have had plenty of eperience. Not to worry. I am sure they are just a splinter group of radicals, that could never happen again. Anywhere. No worries.:cool:

Read with knowledge of the axiom of military intelligence assessments; the first report is always suspect.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/3533075/Mumbai-attack-British-men-among-the-terrorists-Bombay-India.html

Juniper;508731 wrote:
I know this is twisted, but every time I read or hear something about this tragic situation I get this stupid song running through my head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnuzH1qdBZ4

That is easily the most absurd thing I have ever seen.

The way he throws that turban tail back over his shoulder ... oooh.

Mumbai attacks show the war on terror is global

Con Coughlin at Nov 28, 2008 at 15:02:32

There is a further dimension to Philip Johnston's excellent point about the alleged involvement of British-born terrorists in the Mumbai attacks. Apart from recent instances of British-born Muslims taking part in various terrorist attacks around the world, evidence has also emerged to suggest that British-born Muslims are actually bearing arms and fighting against British forces in Afghanistan.

If this is true then it means that Britain is actually fighting a civil war between those who support democracy and the rule of law and those whose only loyalty is to their faith.

Those involved in this extremist ideology, which rejects the entire ethical and moral foundation of Western civilisation, are, of course, a tiny minority of Britain's Muslim population, the majority of whom fully uphold the values of our government, society and culture.

But the Islamist extremists are a powerful and highly dangerous minority, and the suggestion they have been responsible for the appalling violence in Mumbai illustrates once again that the war on terror is not just confined to the more familiar war zones, such as Iraq and Afghanistan.

This is a truly global conflict, and following the terrorists' success in attacking a major port city such as Mumbai, who is to say they don't have the capability to carry out a similar kind of attack against London?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/con_coughlin/blog/2008/11/28/mumbai_attacks_show_the_war_on_terror_is_global

...or New York! This is a global situation and I think everyone recognizes that fact. Some just believe that it was the war in Iraq that empowered them or sent smaller groups of them into many other areas like ants or bees scurrying when you kick the nest. Still others believe that America is so involved in Iraq that we cannot adequately defend other areas. Either way its Bush's fault.

tw and his cronies want us to believe that global terrorism is a fantasy. I hope Obama has better advice.

one CNN commentator kept talking about mobs of "disaffected young men." Now that, I pretty much believe. Maybe the cure for terrorism is simple:

Make sure young men have jobs. Educate the women.

Cloud;509031 wrote:
one CNN commentator kept talking about mobs of "disaffected young men." Now that, I pretty much believe. Maybe the cure for terrorism is simple:

Make sure young men have jobs. Educate the women.

Shia practice frowns on the education of women. Let's be sure and give the "disaffected" youth jobs and ignore those not so disaffected non-muslim young men who are looking for work as well.

TheMercenary;508946 wrote:
They look like teenagers from the pictures. They start them young in the Madrassas. When you have 12 year olds cutting off heads by the time they are 16 they have had plenty of eperience.

Knowledge based upon classic myth is from the same person who also knows that insurgency is a world wide conspiracy and that we must fight terrorism with a 'big dic' mentality.

Studies repeatedly show that accomplished insurgents are more often from technical educations; featuring people who were more accomplished in non-religious school. But reality does not play well among those who automatically know before learning facts - people who also supported George Jr. This world wide network of terrorism is the same myth that 'assumes' the madrassas are the cause or creators of terrorism.

India is typical of insurgencies in that region. Small groups that hope to promote their agenda of hate by doing what happened in Mumbai. In many cases hoping to create a larger war for the greater glory of their agenda. However those little people are simply naive kids inspired to kill as if it was about something mythical - good verse evil.

What happened in India has nothing to do with threats on America - other than to teach aspiring disaffected persons how to do it better. There is no world wide terrorism group such as Kaos, Spectre, Thrush, or Al Qaeda - or the bogeyman. Instead, we have people easily converted by hate for the same reason that Palin could also promote hate and threats to Obama and for the same reason that right wing Israeli radicals could call for and get Rabin's assassination.

Hate is alive and well. Those who only encourage and promote it, well, view the many distorted posts from TheMercenary and Urbane Guerilla. Same type myths work on and are promoted by extremists on both sides.

Being a moderate and grasping real world facts is most difficult when such insurgency attacks create the usualy myths and inspire wacko extremists on all ends of the spectrum.

What makes an insurgent? Eliminate hype by using facts - the reasons why. Knowing why is essential to understanding why insurgents do what they do. From IEEE Spectrum of September 2006:

"Terrorists are not pure evil." says Silverman, director of Penn's Ackoff Center for the Advancement of Systems Approach. "They have a value system, and within that value system they are very consistent. If you re-created their value system, their leader, what they consider to be sacred, what they consider to be violations, if you build up that worldwide view and that framework, it's not surprising or crazy that they do what they do." ...

A jihadist terrorist has a preferred state of the world: the whole world is fundamentalist, and no loose-valued Westerner should walk on the land that Muhammad felt was sacred." ... "Those are long-term preferences - control the land, control of who's allowed to do what. Then he's got standards. It's okay to kill. In fact, I'll go to heaven and be a martyr, and my family will get money."

"It's not a game theory," he adds. "It's people's values."

Silverman does not guess at these values. He works with real-world data provided by leading experts on jihadist terrorists, ... that [Sageman] has since profiled 300 more, including those in the cells responsible for the Madrid train bombing on 11 March 2004.

Sageman's profile of a typical jihadist terrorist is a male who grows up in a decent family, never gets into much trouble, and goes to a religious school. There he learns Islamic fundamentalist credos, and then in many cases he goes abroad to study - often engineering and often in Europe where he feels alienated and has trouble finding work. He gravitates to mosques to find comfort in the familiar, and there he meets men with similar feelings of isolation. Gradually, he is drawn towards a politicized existence and into a terrorist cell.

Ironically, reasons why someone becomes a terrorist are partially found in hate embedded in TheMercenary's many posts. TheMercenary encourages many reasons (ie hate) that cause some to become disaffected and isolated from society. Ironic? People that TheMercenary so hate actually share a common characteristic - values that justify death of 'others'.

Somehow this is all part of some worldwide international terrorism network? Hardly. Little cells of angry people form anywhere once their myopic vision of the world must be imposed on all others. The ones that tend to be more dangerous and successful are products of a more secular world. Notice many small groups of American religious extremists so driven by their hate as to bomb women's clinics and shoot medical doctors for performing abortions. This too must be part of the world wide terrorist movement - according to the philosophy of TheMercenary.

Long before one can blindly believe Rush Limbaugh's, Fox News, and right wing extremist myths of an international terrorism network, one should first learn what inspires individuals active in an insurgency. These are often isolated and independent groups , disaffected people in a society, whose agenda is to save the world from itself even by violence. (Even god knows how both UG and TheMercenary cite violence as a routine to solution to such problems.) People whose values demand that their values be imposed on others who would otherwise trespass.

To understand an insurgency, look not at some international network of terrorists. Instead, grasp what inspires a small group to form an insurgency cell. Small groups that somehow get promoted as a worldwide terrorist organization. Somehow these actions by small groups get translated into an international coordinated network of terrorists - such as Kaos, Spectre, Thrush, and Al Qaeda.

tw;509486 wrote:
Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla bla bla...

tw you are a living distortion of reality. Attitudes like your blithering above are what allow these people to act without fear of consequence.

This is pretty remarkable. India was willfully unprepared to respond to this attack and it sounds like they will be unprepared in the immediate future.

from the article:

With no SWAT team in this city of 18 million, authorities called in the only unit in the country trained to deal with such crises. But the National Security Guards, which largely devotes its resources to protecting top officials, is based outside of New Delhi and it took the commandos nearly 10 hours to reach the scene.

That gave the gunmen time to consolidate control over two luxury hotels and a Jewish center, said Sahni.

As the siege at dragged on, local police improperly strapped on ill-fitting bulletproof vests. Few had two-way radios to communicate.

and this:

From his home in Israel, Assaf Hefetz, a former Israeli police commissioner who created the country's police anti-terror unit three decades ago, watched the slow-motion operation in disbelief.

The commandos should have swarmed the building in a massive, coordinated attack that would have overwhelmed the gunmen and ended the standoff in seconds, he said.

"You have to come from the roof and all the windows and all the doors and create other entrances by demolition charges," he said.

The slow pace of the operations made it appear that the commandos' main goal was to stay safe, Hefetz said.

"You have to take the chance and the danger that your people can be hurt and some of them will be killed, but do it much faster and ensure the operation will be finished (quickly)," Hefetz said.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081130/D94PG9I81.html

I read the "commandos" (the news outlets seem to use that term loosely, anyone wearing black ski masks and holding an AK) were using explosives to "sanitize" the Taj Mahal Hotel floor by floor. WTF there could be people hiding out in their bathrooms, closets, etc. not just the attackers. Just a hugely messy situation that won't really get sorted out for awhile I'm guessing. My dad was in that city about ten years ago on some business trip, glad it was then not now.

Merc, as you've noticed, hatred is tw's sole motivator, and it produces both deluded remarks and a uniform bitchiness of tone. He is as a result largely unable to discover any other motivation than hatred in anyone else, and repeatedly projects it onto others.

Who quite rightly resent both it and him.