Somali pirates hijack Saudi oil tanker
A hijacked supertanker with two British crew members was being taken to a Somali port this afternoon after pirates seized their biggest vessel yet off the African coast.
Acts of piracy in the shipping lanes of the Arabian Sea have become increasingly violent and commonplace in recent months, but this is the first time hijackers have seized an oil tanker.
The 1,000 ft-long Sirius Star was seized on Saturday around 450 nautical miles from Mombasa on the Kenyan coast. The supertanker, which can hold up to two million barrels of crude oil, is owned by Aramco, a Saudi company, but was sailing under a Liberian flag.
The Foreign Office confirmed that two of those on board were British but could not give any details of their role on the ship.
“We don’t know exactly where they are taking it but we know the town of Eyl is a pirate stronghold.”
Eyl is in the northern Puntland region of Somalia, it is thought that dozens of ships are currently being held captive there.
Al-Arabyia, the Saudi-owned television station, reported this afternoon that the ship had been freed, but both the US Navy and Saudi Aramco, which owns the supertanker, said they had no knowledge of any release
The vast ship and its 25 crew, including members from the UK, Croatia, the Philippines, Poland and Saudi Arabia, have been under the command of an armed gang for two days. “The vessel is under the pirates’ control,” a spokesman for the US Navy 5th fleet in Bahrain said.
The Saudi ship, which is 330 meters (1,080 feet) long, had been headed for the United States via the Cape of Good Hope at the southern tip of Africa. The route is a main thoroughfare for fully laden supertankers from the Gulf, the world’s biggest oil exporting region.
Saudi Arabia is the largest of those exporters, sending around seven million barrels per day to into the global markets.
Pirates, often based in anarchic Somalia, have made the shipping routes off east Africa among the most dangerous in the world but this is the first time an oil tanker has been seized.
The International Maritime Bureau has reported that at least 83 ships have been attacked off Somalia since January and 33 of those were hijacked. It is believed that 12 of the vessels and more than 200 crew are still in the hands of pirates.
This is the first I have heard about this.
It used to be the
Strait of Malacca was the pirate hot spot of the word, but the Somalis are really catching up.
At least this tanker only has oil and isn't carrying 33 tanks and grenade launchers like the
MV Faina the pirates captured a month ago.
Thanks glatt - I see the anchor chain is in the water there, I wonder if that pic was before, during or after the highjack.
The pictures above are from the last major attack, not this oil tanker. You would have to be foolish to stop in pirate infested waters if you were a sea captain. I guess it's just speed boats and grappling hooks that allow these pirates to capture a ship while underway. That and sleeping night watchmen. So I think the pirates dropped the anchor.
Mostly, the pirates take valuables from the crew and leave the cargo alone. It's surprising they are going to try to steal the oil cargo in this tanker. Do they have the infrastructure to store that oil? Are they going to just sell it off dock side in 5 gallon jerry cans? I don't know how that works.
Piracy is making a comeback eh? Who's down to bring back train robberies with me!
Hmm- I'll be out of the country with Slang and UG, maybe when we get back we could knock a few off the tracks.
Unless these pirates show proof of citizen to a country who actually wants to protect them, we should be blowing these guys away left and right. Good sport for Navy SEALs I would think. Make an example of one ship, distribute leaflets with pictures of it to every other hijacked ship and tell em surrender your weapons and leave in under 2 hours or we will fuck you up just like these guys. No negotiations, no quarter for those who choose to stay and fight. Scum who prey on total civilians deserve nothing less.
:sniper:
i was thinking that we should buy the shipments from the pirates at cut rates, myself.
But the shipping would be a killer.
Piracy off the Somalia coast has been routine for years. What makes this event unique was the size of the ship AND that it occurred about 450 nautical miles offshore.
Discussed previously in another thread and this from the NY Times:
The pirates raised international alarm bells in September when they seized a Ukrainian freighter, the Faina, carrying a cargo of battle tanks and other weapons. The Faina and its 20-member crew are still being held off Somalia, watched by warships to prevent the removal of its cargo.
What the hell do they do once they seize the ship anyway? How do they get the cargo or whatever off - especially this oil tanker?
Isn't this why they invented submarines? To torpedo pirate ships and watch as the crew is devoured by sharks, or am I thinking of something else?
What the hell do they do once they seize the ship anyway? How do they get the cargo or whatever off - especially this oil tanker?
Kinda reminds me of this.
What the hell do they do once they seize the ship anyway? How do they get the cargo or whatever off - especially this oil tanker?
They hold it for ransom from the owner or insurance company.
The problem with attacking them is the hostages.
What the hell do they do once they seize the ship anyway? How do they get the cargo or whatever off - especially this oil tanker?
The ships are always held for ransom. Somalia has no refineries. No way to offload the oil. I don't even know if that port is deep enough for a tanker that deep.
A fleet of international warships operate a protective screen off Somalia. So how did they get this ship? They highjacked it off of Kenya. Also possible that warships never knew the highjacking occurred until that tanker was in a northern Somalian port.
Curious is the military comment on how professional these pirates are.
Pirates seize 7 ships in 12 days, latest from Iran
(AP:MOGADISHU, Somalia) Somali pirates hijacked their seventh ship in 12 days on Tuesday, as the U.S. Navy reported that pirates had seized an Iranian cargo ship in the Gulf of Aden. The status of the crew or the cargo was not known, she said.
Elsewhere, pirates anchored a hijacked Saudi supertanker loaded with $100 million in crude oil off the Somali coast on Tuesday, causing residents in impoverished fishing villages to gawk in amazement at the size of the 1,080 foot (329 meter) tanker.
Pirate attacks off the coast of Somalia have surged recently, despite the presence of NATO ships, U.S. warships and a Russian frigate all working to prevent piracy in one of the world's busiest shipping lanes.
International Maritime Bureau on Sunday reported five hijackings since Nov. 7, before the hijackings of the Saudi ship or the Iranian ship were announced.
With few other options, shipowners in past piracy cases have ended up paying ransoms for their ships, cargoes and crew.
The U.S. and other naval forces decided against intervention for now. NATO said it would not divert any of its three warships from the Gulf of Aden and the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet also said it did not expect to send ships to try to intercept the Saudi supertanker, the MV Sirius Star. The tanker was seized over the weekend about 450 nautical miles off the Kenyan coast.
Never before have Somali pirates seized such a giant ship so far out to sea _ and never a vessel so large. The captors of the Sirius Star anchored the ship, with a full load of 2 million barrels of oil and 25 crew members, close to a main pirate den on the Somali coast, Harardhere.
~~~~~~~~~
Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal called the hijacking "an outrageous act" and said "piracy, like terrorism, is a disease which is against everybody, and everybody must address it together."
Speaking during a visit to Athens on Tuesday, he said Saudi Arabia would join an international initiative against piracy in the Red Sea area, where more than 80 pirate attacks have taken place this year.
He did not elaborate on what steps the kingdom would take to better protect its vital oil tankers. Saudi Arabia's French-equipped navy has 18,000-20,000 personnel, but has never taken part in any high-seas fighting.
Meanwhile, the Norwegian shipping group Odjell SE said it ordered its more than 90 tankers to sail all the way around Africa to avoid the risk of attack by Somali pirates. That means ships will go past South Africa's Cape of Good Hope instead of taking the Suez Canal shortcut through the Gulf of Aden.
"We will no longer expose our crew to the risk of being hijacked and held for ransom by pirates in the Gulf of Aden," said Terje Storeng, Odjell's president and chief executive.
Experts say the much longer journey adds 12 to 15 days to a tanker's trip, at a cost of between $20,000-$30,000 a day.
The U.S. Navy is still surrounding a Ukrainian ship loaded with tanks and other weaponry that was seized by pirates Sept. 25 off the Somali coast.
Sounds like they need to send some SEALs or other SOF to the area and screw those fellas like they have never been screwed before. It would really suck to be them if they took on a US flagged ship.
It would really suck to be them if they took on a US flagged ship.
Instead they took a British crewed ship.
TW, the ship was owned by a Saudi company and registered in Liberia. There were two Brits on board. You're hearing about this precisely for that reason, via British media. The UK is almost as insular as the US (except our ties to mainland Europe).
Forget the other ships captured by pirates this year - this is headline news here because two Brits are working on board.
It's also news because it's been attacked away from the blockade in Somalia, and is off the coast of Kenya. But never believe it would have been in our newspapers if not for the two Brits.
Instead they took a British crewed ship.
Brother, I know the SAS. If they hit a Brit flagged ship it would be the last one they hit.
Forget the other ships captured by pirates this year - this is headline news here because two Brits are working on board.
Now the numbers. I believe 30 ships per year are highjacked. A fleet of maybe five frigates (including one from Russia) are on patrol off Somalia.
Boy, you guys sure lost your enthusiasm since talk like a pirate day.
Has anyone (else) here read The Devil's Alternative, by Fredrick Forsyth? It deals with a hijacked super tanker.
Clearly, mere regular patrols aren't working. Counter-strikes against seized ships kill hostages and in this case would either destroy, or dump into the sea, a huge amount of oil.
Two tactical responses seem like they might work: providing escorts for ships in convoy, or setting a few decoy/sting ships that look like nice easy targets but turn out to have, say, a whole commando regiment on board.
Pirates hijack another
Pirates prowling the treacherous waters off the Horn of Africa hijacked another merchant ship Tuesday -- at least the second in four days -- amid growing international concern about a 21st century version of an ancient security threat.
The Hong Kong-flagged cargo ship Delight and its 25-person crew were captured late Tuesday morning off the coast of Yemen, Beijing's New China News Agency reported, citing the China Maritime Search and Rescue Center. It was hauling 36,000 metric tons of wheat to the Iranian port of Bandar Abbas, the news service reported.
The pirates often stage their heists from Somalia, a lawless country with a weak central government that is grappling with a violent Islamist insurgency. Using speedboats that swarm the targets, the machine-gun-toting pirates take control of merchant ships and then hold the vessels, crew and cargo for ransom.
In addition to the Sirius Star and Delight, the International Maritime Bureau has reported at least eight other attacks by pirates on shipping in the region since the beginning of last week, most of them warded off by seamen aboard the targeted vessels.
The Indian Navy scores a
mothership
"Pirates were seen roaming on the upper deck of this vessel with guns and rocket propelled grenade launchers," said a statement from the Indian navy. Indian forces fired back, sparking fires and a series of onboard blasts — possibly due to exploding ammunition — and destroying the ship.
They chased one of two speedboats that had been shadowing the larger ship, and which fled when it sank. One was later found abandoned. The other escaped, according to the statement.
Larger "mother ships" are often used to take gangs of pirates and smaller attack boats into deep water, and can be used as mobile bases to attack merchant vessels.
Johnny Depp does a few popular movies about pirates. Now everybody wants to be one.
As ill-equipped as Somali pirates are, a commando raid on the Sirius Star would doubtless get it back. Once the ship has been retaken, there will be very damned little anyone in Somalia could do about it, and a marine diesel engine is quicker to start than a steam turbine powerplant. The cost of mounting such an effort and getting it on-target would probably be about what ransoming the vessel and crew would be -- with substantial added benefits. too readily imagined to need recapitulating here.
The vessel is not loaded with anything remarkably volatile: it's about half to two thirds loaded with crude oil, which is no easier to light off than diesel. The likelihood of the ship being wired for demolition charges seems to me small.
And if the Somali pirates find they can't use crewmen as human shields to any effect to keep the ship, it will discourage them. In general, the only reason the Somali pirates are having the successes they're gaining is because merchant shipping is even worse equipped, and even less trained, for fighting than the Somalis.
I think the Somalis should be discouraged.
I'm not keen on Ethiopia taking over Somalia to restore order -- but the reason Ethiopia has that big horn-shape into that general area in its southeast is because Ethiopia, of all countries, took it away from Somalia back in the day. They are, well, available, and local, and so would have a deeper local understanding. It's probably as true, though, that Ethiopia isn't all that keen on it either, having shall we say a remarkably small merchant marine and thus not being much affected by Somali depredation.
UG, I wish you hadn't posted that.
All Somali pirates read the Cellar.
Yeah, dammit, the cellar hunting trip was just a cover. We were going to go in tonight to take them out, until you blew it. Good one. ;)
Loose lips sink ... er ... fail to liberate ... ships.
I think that its fairly remarkable that these pirates are even able to get on a gigantic ship that is underway, let alone seize it.
It seems to me that this sort of thing should be relatively easy to prevent.
The military reports said the tanker was too large and too laden to outmaneuver pirate speedboats, and was poorly defended, according to AFP.
Unarmed, untrained and probably surprised... it took 16 minutes. :(
I picked up an interesting tidbit on NPR the other day. They blamed the problem on the lack of government but the state gun control aspect of this is interesting. The pirates could easily be repelled but crews can't carry weapons if they're going through certain territorial waters. So instead of handing out 20 sidearms on a ship, taxpayers will be paying for destroyers to patrol a million square miles of ocean.
I didn't understand the legality thing myself. Most large ships, including cruise ships have a small number of weapons on hand. I just don't see why they couldn't increase the number of weapons. There are now some ex-SBS guys who are going to offer their services in the form of a commercial organization to provide security to the shipping industry. I am sure it will be cheaper than the ransoms being paid, but costly never the less. As Iraq dries up there will be more private security available for lease.
I like that idea. Keep the Blackwaters of the world in other countries and out of ours.
I want to know, as Bullitt does, why no one has gone to China Station or anywhere else ex-Special Forces hang out and hired a few teams to repatriate their ship(s). SEALs are well-trained for this kind of thing and would have little trouble taking a bunch of untrained pirates. SAS and Spetznaz are in the same league.
Protecting the ships is easy, too. Stinger missiles, RPG-7 launchers and such are cheap, easily available and untraceable. As long as the weapons are not visible to inspectors (easy to hide), you're home free.
Were I the owner of a hijacked ship, that's what I'd do...arm the crew and salt a few Special Operators among them for good measure.
I'd load my ship up with herpetic, gonorrheic whores. Everyone knows a pirate cannot resist a whore. In a few weeks, they'd be begging for ointments, salves, unguents, cold-compresses, Darvocet and what-not. That's where the real money will be made: treating the STD's of the pirate caste.
I dunno, there's a good chance they already have AIDS. ;)
I want to know, as Bullitt does, why no one has gone to China Station or anywhere else ex-Special Forces hang out and hired a few teams to repatriate their ship(s). SEALs are well-trained for this kind of thing and would have little trouble taking a bunch of untrained pirates. SAS and Spetznaz are in the same league.
Protecting the ships is easy, too. Stinger missiles, RPG-7 launchers and such are cheap, easily available and untraceable. As long as the weapons are not visible to inspectors (easy to hide), you're home free.
Were I the owner of a hijacked ship, that's what I'd do...arm the crew and salt a few Special Operators among them for good measure.
Second. I am sure we are not the first to think of it. It would be a great exercise for the SSN North Carolina or a similar boat to exercise the capability of delivering a SEAL team unseen.
The Indian Navy scores a mothership
Turns out the "mother ship" wasn't really a mother ship and was a Thai fishing trawler that the pirates had attacked just hours earlier and were still in the process of trying to take over. The fishermen on that trawler were resisting the pirates in one part of the trawler when the Indian Navy came up and blew them out of the water. Over a dozen Thai fishermen are missing because of that Indian Naval action. One survived the Navy attack and drifted at sea for days and has just told his tale.
I guess this is why fighting pirates is so hard. The collateral damage is hard to avoid.
Hmmm - good story if you are a pirate arrrgggghhh. What else can he say to get off?
That sux! Of course if that was the US we'd be getting badmouthed from everyone about it.
Oh and
another got hijacked too.
Of course if that was the US we'd be getting badmouthed from everyone about it.
Did your hypothetical feelings get hurt?
Turns out the "mother ship" wasn't really a mother ship and was a Thai fishing trawler that the pirates had attacked just hours earlier and were still in the process of trying to take over.
That would explain why The Economist kept listing it as an 'alleged' pirate ship.
Turns out the "mother ship" wasn't really a mother ship and was a Thai fishing trawler that the pirates had attacked just hours earlier and were still in the process of trying to take over. The fishermen on that trawler were resisting the pirates in one part of the trawler when the Indian Navy came up and blew them out of the water. Over a dozen Thai fishermen are missing because of that Indian Naval action. One survived the Navy attack and drifted at sea for days and has just told his tale.
I guess this is why fighting pirates is so hard. The collateral damage is hard to avoid.
Yea, looks like everyone is a potential victim of the propaganda machine. Even you fell for it...
Five Indian sailors who were among the crew of a Japanese-owned cargo ship hijacked by pirates and held for two months before a ransom was paid said Monday their captivity was "total desperation."
"I wish that no one else ever has to go through this -- (hijackers) are not human but rather animals," said Alister Fernandes, one of the sailors, at a news conference in Mumbai, India.
Kenya's foreign minister said last week that more than $150 million has been paid to pirates around the Horn of Africa over the past 12 months, and the money is encouraging pirates to continue their attacks.
"That is why they are becoming more and more audacious in their activities," Kenyan Foreign Minister Moses Wetangula said.
link
Got to stop paying them.
Bit of an "oops" there, but still, they must have taken out a few pirates with it.
Here's a map of the pirate attacks, courtesy of the BBC:
[ATTACH]20529[/ATTACH]
Read a thing yesterday that pointed out that most civilized countries have an interest in seeing the piracy continue.
The pirates are enemies of the very Islamic government of Somalia. It's recognized as a state sponsor of terrorism and not interested in rule of law. Western business interests are slightly affected but not very much. The best thing that could happen is if the Somalian government would just go away, but to have this boil on its ass is not a bad thing.
The pirates are enemies of the very Islamic government of Somalia. ... The best thing that could happen is if the Somalian government would just go away, but to have this boil on its ass is not a bad thing.
From The Economist of 20 Nov 2008:
In Somalia in 2006, however, the Bush administration tried something different: war by proxy. It gave a green light for Ethiopia to invade Somalia. The plan was for Ethiopia to squash an Islamist movement and reinstate a Somali government that had lost control of most of its territory.
Two years on, the plan has backfired. Abdullahi Ahmed, Somalia’s increasingly notional president, admitted on November 15th that a variety of Islamist insurgents once again dominate most of the country, leaving only two cities, Mogadishu and Baidoa, in the hands of his increasingly notional government. Neither Ethiopia nor the African Union ever sent enough soldiers to impose order. Worse, the strongest of the insurgent groups, the Shabab, is even more radical than the Islamic Courts movement which the Americans and Ethiopians originally took on. It is suspected of being linked by money to the pirates (who hand over a slice of the ransom in return for protection) and by ideology to al-Qaeda.
A dumb American president advocated a solution without even understannding the problem. Current government is protecting those pirates? The current government supported by the American proxy - Ethiopia - is as powerless as the plan that put them there. Another George Jr trophy.
How many American flagged carriers are at risk? Maybe the Liberian Navy should be provide a solution?
I nominate you to go deal with them tw. I think you can really do it. and if not, eh, whatever.
I nominate you to go deal with them tw.
Don't worry. You repeatedly supported and voted for the president that god talks to. So there is no problem. Obviously piracy will not exist as soon as this president talks to god. Clearly the president and god have simply been too busy. But don't worry. Be happy. God is on our side. George Jr said so.
Good come back Tw[COLOR="White"]at[/COLOR]. Just remember, I may be drunk but in the morning I'll be sober but you'll still be you.
Don't worry. You repeatedly supported and voted for the president that god talks to. So there is no problem. Obviously piracy will not exist as soon as this president talks to god. Clearly the president and god have simply been too busy. But don't worry. Be happy. God is on our side. George Jr said so.
This Saturday's South Carolina primary could make or break Barack Obama's presidential aspirations. The Illinois Senator was interviewed by phone on Monday by Beliefnet politics editor Dan Gilgoff....
..."The prayer that I tell myself every night is a fairly simple one: I ask in the name of Jesus Christ that my sins are forgiven, that my family is protected and that I am an instrument of God's will. I'm constantly trying to align myself to what I think he calls on me to do. And sometimes you hear it strongly and sometimes that voice is more muted.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/22/obama-praying-to-be-an-i_n_82737.htmlWTF? The guys were
the security..
Three British ship security guards escaped kidnapping yesterday by jumping into the sea as Somali pirates hijacked a Singaporean tanker in the Gulf of Aden – the latest in a soaring spate of attacks.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/3533644/British-crew-jump-overboard-as-pirates-hijack-another-tanker-off-Somalia.htmlGo easy, Merc, they're just doing what corporate execs would do in the same situation.
Actually, the execs would have a velvet-lined life-boat on standby.
French warship captures 19 Somali pirates
PARIS, Jan 4 (Reuters) - A French warship captured 19 Somali pirates on Sunday when it came to the rescue of two cargo ships threatened in the Gulf of Aden, the office of President Nicolas Sarkozy said.
The French naval vessel "Jean de Vienne" was on patrol off the Somali coast as part of a European Union anti-piracy force when it came to the rescue of a Croatian cargo vessel and a Panamanian ship crossing the Gulf of Aden.
The 19 Somali pirates, armed and equipped with equipment to board the vessels, were captured and have been handed over to Somali authorities, the statement said.
The incident came three days after another French vessel captured eight Somali pirates who attacked a Panamanian registered vessel.
Piracy off Somalia, one of the world's busiest shipping areas, has soared over the past year, earning the pirates millions of dollars of ransom payments and pushing up maritime insurance rates.
The European Union set up an anti-piracy naval task force under British command last month involving warships and aircraft from several nations in the first such naval operation of its kind.
Its a start anyway....
...handed over to Somali authorities
:eyebrow:
Whats the alternative? Send them to Gitmo...
Sink 'em, there are no "Somali authorities'. That place is a zoo.
I have to agree, radical events often require radical solutions. When they start sending these guys to Davey Jones' Locker they will look for a new vocation. Of course you could always send them to another country for some re-education. I would support that. :D
...handed over to Somali authorities
The stupidest non move they could have made. What a waste of time and money. should have been
...handed their bodies over to Somali authorities
Hmm - perhaps the navy seals have a new "toy" that helped the wave along or something.
The weather was so terrible that it blew the boat over, then sank it.
In the pictures there is hardly a whitecap. :eyebrow:
In the pictures there is hardly a whitecap. :eyebrow:
I wondered that as well. It looked pretty calm. Maybe it was at a later time or date that they got in their little boat and tried to escape. I don't know about the time line.
Piracy seems to be a pretty stable and profitable job field in today's troubled economy. It'd be the right time to offer a variety of services to today's independent nonstate wealth-transfer specialists (piracy is such an ugly and bigoted word) and tap into that market.
Well when they start doing it off the coast of New Jersey we will have to get more involved.
Well said AZ and welcome aboard.
Pirates seize British cargo ship in Gulf of Aden
A British-owned cargo ship on Monday became the latest vessel to be seized by Somali pirates in the Gulf of Aden.
International naval patrols have been stepped up in the Gulf of Aden following increased pirate attacks.
The 32,000-tonne Malaspina Castle was taken early on Monday and was believed to be heading towards Somalia's pirate-infested coast, the European Union's Horn of Africa maritime security center said.
"Few details are known at this stage, but the mixed-nationality crew is believed to be safe," a statement on the London-based organization's Web site said.
The vessel, which is operated by an Italian company, carried a crew of 24, from Bulgaria, Ukraine, Russia and the Philippines, Britain's Telegraph newspaper reported.
"There have not yet been communications from the Malaspina Castle that we are aware of, so information is limited," said Andrew Mwangura of the Seafarers' Assistance Program in quotes carried by the Telegraph.
He added: "It is likely to be taken towards the Somali coast and negotiations will begin soon."
Meanwhile, the BBC reported that a Taiwanese fishing boat, with a crew of 29, was also hijacked Monday approximately 260km (160 miles) from the Seychelles.
The latest attacks follow a string of incidents in the pirate-plagued waterway off Somalia at the weekend, with a French yacht, a Yemeni tugboat and a German ship also reported to have been seized.
Last year, pirates attacked nearly 100 vessels and hijacked as many as 40 off Somalia, according to the International Maritime Bureau.
In response, a number of countries have deployed warships from their navies to the region, including the United States, China and Japan.
Monday's seizure of the Malaspina Castle was immediately condemned by the UK ship masters' union Nautilus, which has long urged governments to take stronger action to deter piracy.
Nautilus assistant general secretary Mark Dickinson told the British Press Association: "Over the last 10 years, most governments have not really done very much about this.
"More recently they have been motivated to act and there is an EU naval coordination force patrolling off the Gulf of Aden."
He added: "I'm not sure that this is going to be a long-term thing and I'm also worried that the pirates will start seizing ships well away from the areas being patrolled.
"In Somalia, piracy is like a big, successful industry and the authorities there need to act. The pirates are treated like local heroes. People look up to them and girls want to marry them. They are seen by some locals as good people but they are ruthless."
Ahhh the truth be told - its all about getting the girls.
Nah....all you need is an American accent. Then they know (assume) you got the money.
By KATHARINE HOURELD
Associated Press Writer
(AP:NAIROBI, Kenya) Pentagon officials said Wednesday that the American crew of a U.S.-flagged cargo ship had retaken control from Somali pirates who hijacked the vessel far off the Horn of Africa.
The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because information was still preliminary. But they said the hijacked crew had apparently contacted the private company that operates the ship.
"Speculation is a dangerous thing when you're in a fluid environment. I will not confirm that the crew has overtaken this ship," he said.
Capt. Joseph Murphy, an instructor at the Massachusetts Maritime Academy, told The Associated Press that his son Shane, the second in command on the ship, had called him to say the crew had regained control.
A U.S. official said the crew had retaken control and had one pirate in custody.
"The crew is back in control of the ship," a U.S. official said at midday, speaking on condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to speak on the record. "It's reported that one pirate is on board under crew control _ the other three were trying to flee," the official said. The status of the other pirates was unknown, the official said, but they were reported to "be in the water."
Another U.S. official, citing a readout from an interagency conference call, said: "Multiple reliable sources are now reporting that the Maersk Alabama is now under control of the U.S. crew. The crew reportedly has one pirate in custody. The status of others is unclear, they are believed to be in the water."
The ship was carrying emergency relief to Mombasa, Kenya, when it was hijacked, said Peter Beck-Bang, spokesman for the Copenhagen-based container shipping group A.P. Moller-Maersk.
It was the sixth vessel seized within a week, a rise that analysts attribute to a new strategy by Somali pirates who are operating far from the warships patrolling the Gulf of Aden.
"in the water" That is not a place you want to be. Might be dolphins about.
Another
update
NAIROBI, Kenya – The American crew of a hijacked U.S.-flagged ship retook control of the vessel from Somali pirates Wednesday but the captain was still being held hostage in a lifeboat, according to crew members.
U.S. officials said an American warship and a half dozen other ships were headed to the scene.
Kevin Speers, a spokesman for Maersk Lines Limited, confirmed that the crew had the Maersk Alabama and were unharmed but the captain was being held by pirates off the cargo ship.
"They're on another boat," he said. He gave no other details.
The second in command, Shane Murphy of Seekonk, Massachusetts, called his wife at 10 a.m EDT and told her that pirates had taken over the ship before dawn local time, she said.
Murphy said that pirates then had taken away the captain and he was now in charge, Serena Murphy, 31, told The Associated Press from her front doorstep.
– Somali pirates and their hostage American sea captain were adrift in a lifeboat Thursday off the Horn of Africa, shadowed by a U.S. destroyer with more warships on the way in a U.S. show of force. The U.S. brought in FBI hostage negotiators to work with the military in trying to secure the release of Capt. Richard Phillips of Underhill, Vt. An official said the bandits were in talks with the Navy about resolving the standoff peacefully.
As the high-seas drama stretched into a second day, the freighter that was the target of the pirates steamed away from the lifeboat under armed U.S. Navy guard, with all of its crew safe — except for the captive captain.
The pirates tried to hijack the U.S.-flagged Maersk Alabama on Wednesday, but Phillips thwarted the takeover by telling his crew of about 20 to lock themselves in a room, the crew told stateside relatives.
The crew later overpowered some of the pirates, but Phillips, 53, surrendered himself to the bandits to safeguard his men, and four of the Somalis fled with him to an enclosed lifeboat, the relatives said.
This is an interesting development. Was this Captain brave or foolish... or both.
Probably both, we'll see if he was smart or not.
I heard that he tried to escape and was recaptured or prevented. I find it interesting that they are on a relatively small boat, 28', rather far out into the ocean and are trying to negotiate his release. The Navy is there and will not allow them to return to shore, nor another vessel. Can't they just wait them out? I'd assume there isn't a lot of food/water on that boat.
Somalis are used to not eating. Haven't you seen the children? [\i'mgoingtohell]
It is said the waters are too vast to fill with armed boats, yet we can't arm the freighters themselves because of varying national laws when they go to port. It is said that an international response is needed. I propose that an international agreement to arm the freighters, i.e. to craft laws allowing an international team of commandos on each boat, to be sanctioned as "okay" to enter port.
Of course, next thing you know, an imposter boat defense team will compromise some nation's border defense.
I want to form a security company for these ships. I want only trained Special Operators from US forces. preference given to SEALs. We'd arrive well-armed by helicopter, stay aboard until the ship was in safe waters and then depart the same way before the ship made port. Negotiate a fee based on the size of the ship or perhaps the cargo. Payable in advance only. I could made a bloody fortune!
Well something clearly needs to be done. Pirates have been working in that area for the past couple of years, I think. Why they don't have helicopters supplying support when they sail off is beyond me. I mean really. They know these ships are in danger, and it's very hard for me to understand how a tiny boat with a few pirates can overtake a huge ship. Maybe they should have armed guards aboard. Use NATO forces, since they aren't bound to any one country.
It is said the waters are too vast to fill with armed boats, yet we can't arm the freighters themselves because of varying national laws when they go to port. It is said that an international response is needed.
If commercial shipping considered that risk significant, then convoys would form escorted by one or a few naval ships. Not done for one good reason: these pirate risks are not considered significant.
It makes big news in the press. Those who believe in 'big dic' solutions would advocate bigger guns. But shippers have better options that require no onboard military.
So we just allow them to keep kidnapping people and ships and holding them for ransom? Damn. Maybe I should move to Somalia and become a pirate. Dread Pirate Jazzy, that be me name. arg.
"But I don't wanna be a pirate."
-Jerry Seinfeld
They really need to crank up a more agressive response to this issue.
No, they need to leave it alone.
People are mad that the US pretends to be the police of the world, well, this is the world with no policing.
No, they need to leave it alone.
People are mad that the US pretends to be the police of the world, well, this is the world with no policing.
I didn't mean to imply that the US should do it, except in the current case of the US citzen.
Make them an offer - One live US captain or a lot of dead pirates.
Only saying this because it is an American that they are holding - otherwise, I'm beginning to agree with UT on this type of thing - let these other countries do it for themselves for a change. Empowerment, freedom and all that.
So we just allow them to keep kidnapping people and ships and holding them for ransom?
Show me where you and I are being harmed? Why are those at risk not demanding more protection? A problem still so trivial that they will not even do simple solutions such as convoys.
Ship owners are happy to have additional protection provided for free. Risk so small that insurance rates remain low (even with the increased rates). Why would you advocate curing a problem for others who do not consider the problem significant? Or should we unilaterally impose our will anywhere we 'feel' rather than wait to be desired?
If this was a significant problem, then shippers would have organized into convoys long ago. They will not even do that. Once we eliminate the hype of piracy, well, those who are at risk do not consider that risk significant. Fixing other's problems when even they don't see a problem - how to become the "Ugly American" - as demonstrated by the book.
So many want to arm ships with heavy weapons when the shippers themselves have yet to implement even rudimentary solutions such as convoys. Long before applying solutions, maybe we should first wait for them to need a solution. Shippers currently view this only as a business expense.
This was interesting:
Phillips is one of about 260 hostages being held by Somali pirates preying on the busy sea lanes of the Gulf of Aden and the Indian Ocean.
There are more Filipinos than any other nationality and the pirates are keeping about 17 captured vessels at or near lairs like Eyl, Hobyo and Haradheere on Somalia's eastern coast - six of them taken in the last week alone.
I had no idea there were that many being held.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/us-navy-eyeballs-somali-pirates-in-hostage-standoff-1667348.htmlSo in the end we have a stand off as the lifeboat drifts aimlessly.
Well it's over.
US Navy 1
Somalia Pirates -3 and 1 alive.
My guess a NAVSPEC warfare Op.
President Barack Obama said the captain has courage that is "a model for all Americans."
Obama said he was pleased that Phillips has been rescued and was proud of the U.S. military and other agencies that worked to free him. The president said the United States needs help from other countries to deal with the threat of piracy and to hold pirates accountable.
Glad he reminded the world that this is not our problem, it's everyone's.
I agree. We really should not take this on as our own problem except in the case of our own ships or crews, which in that case we should be ruthless.
Agreed, Merc. When I was doing that IOtD of the ships crew making Molotov cocktails I followed a shitload of links on the pirates. The numbers were astounding and there was even one story about the ransom money was helping fund Al-Qaeda in Africa by the pirates paying them protection. The whole thing is so bizarre in this day and age, it's a reminder of how primitive some of the world still is.
What kind of acts would you resort to if your children are starving? I'd resort to a hell of a lot.
What kind of acts would you resort to if your children are starving? I'd resort to a hell of a lot.
I'd become a pirate given the sucess they have had up to this point. And if I was conversely a ship owner I would mount machine guns on my decks and sink anyone who came close with the intent to take over.
They really should consider allowing private security groups to help them out in this case.
I'm not condoning it, but after years of violence and starvation, I do understand there are few options left to them. The only way (okay, maybe not the only way, but probably the best way) to stop it is to make more legitimate pursuits available and sustainable.
I'm not condoning it, but after years of violence and starvation, I do understand there are few options left to them. The only way (okay, maybe not the only way, but probably the best way) to stop it is to make more legitimate pursuits available and sustainable.
I agree, as long at the US is not involved in that.
What kind of acts would you resort to if your children are starving? I'd resort to a hell of a lot.
What makes you think these pirates have children?
What makes you think these pirates have children?
From some of the pictures I've seen, some of the pirates ARE children.
I agree Merc, that they should consider hiring private security and having machine guns on board. It is not up to the US Navy to act here. Those are private companies, it should be their expense.
This is going to get uglier. The pirates will begin killing hostages...not only those they now have, but in all likelihood the crews of ships they board.
The pirates themselves have opened the door for any and all retaliation by the nature of their acts of piracy. Sad though it will be when they do start indiscriminately killing their hostages and the ship crews, it will then make it possible for the military forces of the world to simply blast these fuckers off the face of the planet, no questions asked.
Once those who take vessels end up dead *and* empty handed, piracy will no longer be quite so attractive.
Like I said, it is sad, but violent people only understand superior force. Sanity, rationality and anything other than violence is taken as a weakness to be exploited. When we talk about how underprivileged they are, we are being humane, but those who are engaged in wanton antisocial and lawless behaviors such as piracy would gladly take our money and our lives if we gave them a sliver of a chance.
I hold my sympathies back for those who aren't trying to steal and kill their ways out of their plights. If some underprivileged thug comes and steals my shit and threatens my family, my response is *not* going to be to go donate to the Save the Thugs fund.
Hmmm, are the shippers, or more accurately their insurance companies, paying ransom to get back their crews or their ships. It's easy to say both, but I wonder if they would still pay with the crew dead?
I think so... business is business. :(
From some of the pictures I've seen, some of the pirates ARE children.
That changes nothing.
That changes nothing.
I didn't say it did. And I agreed with you.
Hmmm, are the shippers, or more accurately their insurance companies, paying ransom to get back their crews or their ships. It's easy to say both, but I wonder if they would still pay with the crew dead?
I think so... business is business. :(
There was a captain of a ship that had been attacked before on (I believe it was) CNN. He said (I'm paraphrasing) they didn't want to have armed guards on board because they felt it would escalate the situation (and also it is illegal in some countries), and it was more beneficial to just pay the money. So I guess in a sense he was saying paying the money was thought of as a cost of doing business in that part of the world.
Why would they pay if the crew/hostages are dead? If they start killing hostages, then I would think most countries would fight back.
The problem, apparently, is Somalia is ungovernable. In addition, a lot of this money is going to al qaeda. It is an international problem, and there needs to be an international solution.
So I guess in a sense he was saying paying the money was thought of as a cost of doing business in that part of the world.
It's seen that way by the pirates as well, which can lead to a weird sense of entitlement, like with corrupt officials and bribery.
Why would they pay if the crew/hostages are dead? If they start killing hostages, then I would think most countries would fight back.
And
vice versa. I don't think we did anything wrong in this case, but there is good reason to avoid escalation when possible.
U.S. Military Considers Attacks on Somali Pirates’ Land Bases
April 13 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. military is considering attacks on pirate bases on land and aid for the Somali people to help stem ship hijackings off Africa’s east coast, defense officials said.
The military also is drawing up proposals to aid the fledgling Somalia government to train security forces and develop its own coast guard, said the officials, who requested anonymity. The plans will be presented to the Obama administration as it considers a coordinated U.S. government and international response to piracy, the officials said.
The effort follows the freeing yesterday of Richard Phillips, a U.S. cargo ship captain held hostage since April 8 by Somali pirates. Security analysts said making shipping lanes safe would require disrupting the pirates’ support network on land.
“There really isn’t a silver-bullet solution other than going into Somalia and rooting out the bases” of the pirates, said James Carafano, senior research fellow at the Heritage Foundation, a Washington-based group.
GREAT. So we are going to have to pay for THIS now too? jezzus. How many countries are we going to spend money on in order to train security forces for them? Does anyone else have the sense that this will eventually come back and bite us on the ass?
We are now a nation of apologists. I fully expect this situation which IS NOT OUR FAULT to be our fault is some effed up convoluted way. THEY chose to hijack our ship, we defended ourselves. Eff them and the dingy they came in on.
"...Here It Comes Again -- George?"
Actually, America is the one country best situated to do anything at all about making legitimate activities sustainable once again, Merc, and what's more, we're well situated to make piracy nonsurvivable and harrow all the pirate base towns.
Which is what's needed. Eliminate the troublemakers, hire any survivors to fix things back up. In the Somalis' situation, which is very bad, the one tool that will answer is a two-by-four, both applied to the troublemakers' skulls, and used to frame windows in new houses to replace what's been blown flat.
The recent coup by the SEAL shooters is a great success of the "big dick" approach that tw can't bring himself to properly spell, and which is such an improvement over the emasculated counsel he usually proffers. Billions for cleanout, not another .01 Euro for ransoms. A pirate suddenly deprived of his head is a pirate suddenly improved. A good pirate is a pirate messily split in two, horizontal or vertical dealer's choice, and his boat left in a sinking condition.
When we talk about how underprivileged they are, we are being humane, but those who are engaged in wanton antisocial and lawless behaviors such as piracy would gladly take our money and our lives if we gave them a sliver of a chance.
I hold my sympathies back for those who aren't trying to steal and kill their ways out of their plights. If some underprivileged thug comes and steals my shit and threatens my family, my response is *not* going to be to go donate to the Save the Thugs fund.
The point of being humane is not necessarily to stop previously violent individuals from being violent in the future but to prevent others from following the same violent path. There is most likely nothing that can be done to stop many of those people from killing and stealing but the goal of any humane work should be lowering the numbers that will start killing and stealing.
The reality of humanitarian aid actually working and whether it should be used is another story.
The point of being humane is not necessarily to stop previously violent individuals from being violent in the future but to prevent others from following the same violent path.
Mine the path.
gah! I can't find today's article from (/coughdouchecough/) Gwynne Dyer, but he feels it is the US's responsibility (perhaps along with France and India or other similar nations who "show some backbone") to keep the Somali waters free of pirates. He feels, after all, the US is the nation that spawned them in the first place (ah, yes...this is starting to feel familiar...)
I wish I could find the article - it's not on his site yet and my daily paper site isn't co-operating...but the gist is, the US should do it. This attitude is simply toooo rich coming from Dr. Dyer. He is the very definition of the Ugly European: He wants the US to leave everything alone and take it on the chin until the pirates start coming home to roost and bother the international community...then we're supposed to take on the world and be Police...but not one second before Gwynne Dyer tells us to.
I agree - Other Nations seem to want the U.S. out of their business till the proverbial "shit hits the fan" then they want us to come and clean up the mess.
Unfortunately ....
The US Navy announced this week that it will head a new anti-piracy task force after more than 100 ships were attacked last year.
Somali pirates drown with ransom
A $3m ransom is believed to have been parachuted onto the tanker
Six members of a group of Somali pirates who hijacked and later released a Saudi-owned oil tanker are reported to have drowned along with their share of a $3m ransom.
The pirates were among eight men whose boat overturned off the coast of Kenya in a storm as they left the Sirius Star following a two-month standoff that ended on Friday, a pirate and a relative of one of the dead men said.
"Six of our boys perished at the sea while coming from the released Saudi supertanker," Mohamed Said told the AFP news agency.
"The small boat that was carrying those killed and eight who survived was overloaded and at high speed, we have been told by the survivors.
"They were afraid of a chase from outsiders [foreign naval forces] who invaded Somalia waters," he said.
The group's $300,000 share of the ransom was also lost, he said.
"There has been human and monetary loss but what makes us feel sad is that we don't still have the dead bodies of our relatives. Four are still missing and one washed up on the shore," Abukar Haji, the uncle of one of the dead men, said.
Well they actual pirates get 10% eh?
Undeterred Somali pirates hijack 3 more ships
MOMBASA, Kenya (AP) — Somali pirates brazenly hijacked three more ships in the Gulf of Aden, the waterway that's become the focal point of the world's fight against piracy.
The Irene was attacked and seized in the middle of the night Tuesday — a rare tactic for the pirates.
U.S. Navy Lt. Nathan Christensen, spokesman for the Bahrain-based 5th Fleet, said the Irene was flagged in the Caribbean island nation of St. Vincent and the Grenadines and carried 23 Filipino crew. Choong reported a crew of 21, and there was no immediate way to reconcile the figures.
A maritime security contractor, said the ship put out a distress signal "to say they had a suspicious vessel approaching. That rapidly turned into an attack and then a hijacking."
"They tried to call in support on the emergency channels, but they never got any response," the contractor said.
On Monday, Somali pirates also seized two Egyptian fishing boats in the Gulf of Aden off Somalia's northern coast, according to Egypt's Foreign Ministry, which said the boats carried 18 to 24 Egyptians total.
A flotilla of warships from nearly a dozen countries has patrolled the Gulf of Aden and nearby Indian Ocean waters for months. They have halted several attacks on ships this year, but say the area is so vast they can't stop all hijackings.
Choong said pirate attacks this year had risen to 77, with 18 of those ships hijacked and 16 vessels with 285 crew still in pirates' hands. Each boat carries the potential of a million-dollar ransom.
I agree - Other Nations seem to want the U.S. out of their business till the proverbial "shit hits the fan" then they want us to come and clean up the mess.
Something you should know.
Did you know that other nations try to work in their own best interest as well? Did you know that our best interest sometimes works against theirs? Did you know that sometimes we screw up and work against our own best interests?
Something you should know.
The bottom line is still the same, the shippers should arm themselves.
Yes Griff, thanks for that. The shippers cannot arm themselves because if they do they cannot dock in ports. Therefore, an alternative still needs to be formulated. Any ideas on that? I do not think we should bear the main burden of policing this area.
Private security can be off-loaded before docking or encroaching on territorial waters. Like you, I think the actual customers should pay for security. If a country won't adjust its laws for armed ships then it should pay a premium for shipping.
That would work for me too. It was discounted though. The other option would be to have a smaller "security support" ship available. That too was rejected.
I think it's one of those things where nobody is going to do anything about the problem until they have to. The percentage of ships who make it through unscathed is still high enough that the shipping and insurance companies consider the few who get seized to be the cost of doing business. With this recent US military intervention (which I support) I predict things will escalate and that will force the issue to be resolved. Either by the military or by the private sector. I think I'd prefer to see a private sector solution to this.
gah! I can't find today's article from (/coughdouchecough/) Gwynne Dyer, but he feels it is the US's responsibility (perhaps along with France and India or other similar nations who "show some backbone") to keep the Somali waters free of pirates. He feels, after all, the US is the nation that spawned them in the first place (ah, yes...this is starting to feel familiar...)
I wish I could find the article - it's not on his site yet and my daily paper site isn't co-operating...but the gist is, the US should do it. This attitude is simply toooo rich coming from Dr. Dyer. He is the very definition of the Ugly European: He wants the US to leave everything alone and take it on the chin until the pirates start coming home to roost and bother the international community...then we're supposed to take on the world and be Police...but not one second before Gwynne Dyer tells us to.
huh? How is it our fault?
Because Somalia is the armpit of the world and that, like everything else that's wrong in the world, is definitely our fault.
Now sit... stay... look ashamed. :rolleyes:
@ sugarpop, according to Dyer, we destabilized the country by encouraging Ethiopia to invade (? I am recalling the article here) (and as you know, countries do NOT invade other countries unless the US tells them to) so, voila, the destabliziation is our fault, the pirates are our fault and we probably made your quiche fall in the oven. And your cows give bad milk. And the moon turn to blood. You know the drill.
Here's the part of the article I was referring to:
"The world has consistently failed Somalia for almost two decades while it has languished in violent anarchy. The United States bears a special responsibility, because it was behind the 2007 Ethiopian invasion that destroyed the country’s best chance of stabilizing itself since the collapse in 1991. But letting the piracy continue doesn’t help Somalia in any way, so the U.S. Navy might as well get on with the job of suppressing it.
Is this actually going to happen? It could, and it should, but it remains to be seen if it will."
Gwynne Dyer is a London-based independent journalist. E-mail address:
76312.1476@compuserve.com.
Entire article here:
The U.S. Navy has more than half the major warships in the world, and there is a pirate threat off the Somali coast. Now that the Navy has killed three of those pirates in order to free Richard Phillips, the kidnapped captain of an American ship, these two facts are coming together in a promising way.
Just to utter that phrase — “a pirate threat off the Somali coast” — is to plumb the depths of absurdity. What combination of incompetence and cowardice could have allowed piracy to become a threat to a major shipping route in the early 21st century? What are all those warships with their guns and missiles and radars and helicopters actually for?
So the abortive Somali attack on the U.S.-registered ship Maersk Alabama last week may have a silver lining. It may get the U.S. Navy to take over the job of fighting the pirates.
The biggest problem other navies have faced in dealing with the pirates is the pitiful state of current international law. The old rules on piracy were simple: pirates were the “enemies of all mankind,” and there was a right of “universal jurisdiction” against them. Any country could arrest pirates from anywhere, regardless of nationality, and try them for their crimes. If they were captured in battle, they were even liable to summary execution.
The new rules, as defined by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, require a warship to send a boarding party led by an officer onto any suspected pirate vessel to confirm its criminal intent. Until that has been done, the warship may not open fire. It is unlikely that the lawyers consulted with practical seamen before they wrote this clause.
But the United States has not ratified the Law of the Sea convention. This was not foresight, just the Senate’s customary reluctance to ratify any treaty that limits U.S. freedom of action in any way, but it is useful in this case. Normally, the U.S. government acts as if it were bound by international treaties that it has signed even when the Senate is being obstinate, but it doesn’t actually have to.
So the U.S. Navy, perhaps acting in cooperation with the French and Indian navies and anybody else who has a bit of backbone, could be deployed to deal with the pirates. For a start, they could declare an exclusion zone beginning 12 nautical miles off the Somali coast that can only be traversed by vessels that have been cleared by U.S. naval authorities. All legitimate commercial ships and pleasure-craft would be waved through automatically; all other vessels in the zone would be sunk without warning.
There would still be a need for warships scattered throughout the zone to deal with pirates that slipped across the 12-mile line, but this sort of exclusion zone would allow most of the naval forces to concentrate on containing them within Somalia’s territorial waters.
Would enforcing the exclusion zone mean that some of the pirates get killed? Yes, of course, but there was a reason why pirates were defined as “enemies of all mankind.” The sea is an alien environment, a place where people die very quickly if things go wrong. Those who prey on other people in this environment have very little call on our sympathy.
Would the dead also include a few Somali fishermen who enter the exclusion zone by accident or in desperation? Probably. You try to avoid it, but some innocent people almost always die when you use military force. So let the fishermen put pressure on the local warlords to end their collusion with the pirates. It is not everybody else’s duty to put up with piracy so that Somalis can go on fishing.
The world has consistently failed Somalia for almost two decades while it has languished in violent anarchy. The United States bears a special responsibility, because it was behind the 2007 Ethiopian invasion that destroyed the country’s best chance of stabilizing itself since the collapse in 1991. But letting the piracy continue doesn’t help Somalia in any way, so the U.S. Navy might as well get on with the job of suppressing it.
Is this actually going to happen? It could, and it should, but it remains to be seen if it will.
IMHO, Dr. Dyer would be the first to decry any loss of innocent life in the practice of the US patrolling the pirate-sea. He is so obvious I don't know why I even read his drivel. Old habits die hard, I guess.
He states that it is "not everybody else's duty to put up with piracy" but infers that it is the US's duty to put it down. Then we pay, in blood and money, and the world benefits. Nothing really new there.
The new rules, as defined by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, require a warship to send a boarding party led by an officer onto any suspected pirate vessel to confirm its criminal intent. Until that has been done, the warship may not open fire. It is unlikely that the lawyers consulted with practical seamen before they wrote this clause.
Well that is a ridiculous rule. There is no way to apply that in a real life situation.
IMHO, Dr. Dyer would be the first to decry any loss of innocent life in the practice of the US patrolling the pirate-sea. He is so obvious I don't know why I even read his drivel.
He states that it is "not everybody else's duty to put up with piracy" but infers that it is the US's duty to put it down. Then we (the US) pay, in blood and money, and the world benefits. Nothing really new there.
Yup, Same old shit.
E-mail address:
76312.1476@compuserve.com
That's really all you need to know. This person is not a functioning member of the real world. CompuServe has not been a good choice for email in over 15 years. For 10 years it has been an AOL brand (which is not a good sign either) and it has desperately been trying to throw away its legacy customers. Three years ago they announced that they will not be developing a version for Vista.
That may be true, but I frequently give out my old & rarely used email address to those who I think may spam me. Rebates "special offers" and the like. I only check it once a month or so. Perhaps thats why that address is there.
Maybe the company she works for has a deal with compuserve or something :shrug:
Time to get off CompuServe, C-man.
I'm not on there - I have an oooooold aol address that I keep for occasional crap.
The Cellar currently can't send mail to AOLers. We're blocked for spamming.
that may be the email, but Gwynne Dyer is a nationally syndicated columnist. we get him in our op-ed dayton daily news. He's a "real" guy.
from his website:
GWYNNE DYER has worked as a freelance journalist, columnist, broadcaster and lecturer on international affairs for more than 20 years, but he was originally trained as an historian. Born in Newfoundland, he received degrees from Canadian, American and British universities, finishing with a Ph.D. in Military and Middle Eastern History from the University of London. He served in three navies and held academic appointments at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst and Oxford University before launching his twice-weekly column on international affairs, which is published by over 175 papers in some 45 countries.
His first television series, the 7-part documentary 'War', was aired in 45 countries in the mid-80s. One episode, 'The Profession of Arms', was nominated for an Academy Award. His more recent television work includes the 1994 series 'The Human Race', and 'Protection Force', a three-part series on peacekeepers in Bosnia, both of which won Gemini awards. His award-winning radio documentaries include 'The Gorbachev Revolution', a seven-part series based on Dyer's experiences in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union in 1987-90, and 'Millenium', a six-hour series on the
emerging global culture.
Dyer's major study "War", first published in the 1980s, was completely revised and re-published in 2004. During this decade he has also written a trio of more contemporary books dealing with the politics and strategy of the post-9/11 world: 'Ignorant Armies' (2003), 'Future: Tense' (2004), and 'The Mess They Made' (2006). The latter was also published as 'After Iraq' in the US and the UK and as 'Nach Iraq und Afghanistan' inGermany.
His most recent projects are a book and a radio series called 'Climate Wars', dealing with the geopolitics of climate change. They have already been published and aired in some places, and will appear in most other major markets in the course of 2009.
really? Thats interesting - you don't seem the sort to be a spammer. Guess you just never know about some people :rolleyes:
NAIROBI, Kenya (AP) — Somalia's prime minister says his government has identified many pirate leaders but needs more resources and the help of other countries to go after them.
"We have information on who is behind this, who is involved," Sharmarke said. "There is a lot of money flowing in ... we are following very closely how money is distributed here."
Somali pirates can earn $1 million or more in ransom for each hijacked ship. Forty-two ships were hijacked by Somali pirates last year, and so far 19 have been taken this year.
He said the Somali government was presenting a plan to envoys from the European Union, the United States and a regional authority to fight pirates by building up military forces and establishing intelligence-gathering posts along its coastline.
"The best way to actually deal with this is to prevent (the pirates) from going into the waters," Sharmarke said. "We will have to do military actions ... We are planning to establish at least 10 or more observation posts on the coastline."
Still, it was not clear how this plan could cover the 1,900-mile Somali coastline, since his government controls only a few square blocks of the capital, Mogadishu, with the aid of African peacekeepers.
In Washington, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton announced a new initiative Wednesday to fight the escalating scourge of piracy by freezing pirates' assets. In January, the U.S. government proposed $5 million in funding to improve the Somali security services, a request that is currently before Congress.
I wonder if our giving them $5 million is really going to make a dent. This is such a forked up situation.
The cruel fact is that even as Americans celebrated the rescue, the Somali pirates — in what is business as usual off of Somalia’s long ungoverned coast— were grabbing more ships. There are now 17 captured ships and about 260 hostages waiting to be ransomed. The short-term answer is more patrols and better cooperation with regional states; a long-term solution, alas, remains elusive.
At a million a ship/hostage - we are about $272 million behind.
Maybe with the down turn in the personal economic situation of so many Americans we can begin to turn to piracy. Hell, we have already seen that the payoff is pretty damm good. Maybe some of these out of work forces can ban together and buy some boats.
Oh goody, we can hijack Cuban shipping and get ransom in cigars.
It's always cigars with you, isn't it bruce?
*skritchhh* (light) Puff puff BANG.
Dammit. Lose more cigars that way.
It's always cigars with you, isn't it bruce?
You didn't seem to mind. :blush:
Haha, anyone see the latest South Park?
I missed it! I can imagine. I will have to catch the re-run. :)
Pirates mistakenly attack French naval vessel
Five Somali pirates have been captured after firing on a French naval vessel by mistake, apparently thinking it was a cargo ship, the BBC reports.
French military spokesman Admiral Christophe Prazuck says the pirates attacked at night about 300 miles off the Somalia coast.
But instead of a harmless cargo vessel, they tangled (briefly) with the Somme, a French navy command and supply ship.
Admiral Prazuck told French TV station La Chaine Info that the pirates seemed to be surprised that the navy ship fought back, the BBC reports.
"Once they realized they were facing a ship that was responding and was heading towards them, they stopped shooting and attempted to flee," he said.
The headline is wrong.
It should read "French Navy fights back!"
News at eleven.
NAIROBI, Kenya — Crews on oil tankers aren't allowed to smoke above deck, much less carry guns, for fear of igniting the ship's payload. That's one of the main reasons Somali pirates met little resistance when they hijacked a U.S.-bound supertanker carrying $20 million in crude.
The Greek-flagged tanker — traveling from Saudi Arabia to New Orleans — had no escort when it was hijacked Sunday because naval warships are stretched too thin. The problem has been further exacerbated because pirates have expanded their operations to hundreds of miles out at sea.
The hijacking, one year after seizure of a Saudi supertanker led to heightened international efforts to fight piracy off the Horn of Africa, has highlighted the difficulty of keeping ships safe in the region — particularly oil tankers.
The Maran Centaurus was about 800 miles off the coast of Somalia when it was hijacked with 28 crew, said Cmdr. John Harbour, a spokesman for the EU Naval Force. On Monday, it was headed toward Somalia's lawless coast, a location where pirates most likely will hold the vessel as they attempt to negotiate a multimillion-dollar ransom.
While some ships traveling in the region have been outfitted with high pressure water guns and piercing noisemakers to repel pirates, even this is shunned on oil tankers for fear of triggering a response from pirates armed with guns and rocket-propelled grenades.
"If you're not allowed to smoke a cigarette on the upper deck of an oil tanker, why would you want someone with a weapon up there?" said Graeme Gibbon-Brooks, who heads the private security company Dryad Maritime Intelligence.
There is also the threat that an accident or gunfight could lead to a leak that would devastate thousands of miles of ocean or coastline.
Protecting the huge tankers that carry more than half of the world's oil supply is made even more difficult because of their slow speed.
Sailors can typically distinguish fishermen from pirates around 300 yards, but by then it is too late to stop most attacks, said Gibbon-Brooks.
Expense and legal worries rule out armed escorts on a separate ship, he said, suggesting the best way to evade attack was for tankers to increase speed and steer the ship 30 to 45 degrees either side of its course. The swinging motion increases wake, destabilizing pirate skiffs, and keeps the low stern moving where pirates usually board. Trailing nets or lines behind vessels can also help by fouling the propellers of pirate skiffs, he said.
The Maran Centaurus was traveling about 11 knots when it was hijacked, according to Maj. Marten Granberg of the EU Naval Force. Most successful hijacks occur on ships traveling less than 20 knots. The ship was heading toward New Orleans, he said.
Gibbon-Brooks said he had recently received information from contacts in Somalia that more attacks were planned on tankers.
Twenty percent of global shipping — including eight percent of global oil shipments — is funneled into the narrow, pirate-infested Gulf of Aden that leads through the Red Sea to the Suez Canal. The route is bordered on one side by the failed state of Somalia and on the other by the increasingly unstable country of Yemen.
They're at it again/still. . .
LinkPirates mistakenly attack French naval vessel
Aussie comedian:
France's greatest naval victory since the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior!
They're at it again.
Striking into the heavily patrolled Gulf of Aden, Somali pirates seized a British-flagged chemical tanker — the first merchant vessel to be hijacked there in nearly six months, the same day that a ship was taken by brigands in the Indian Ocean, officials said Tuesday.
The double hijacking late Monday shows that, a year after an international naval armada began deploying off Somalia to protect shipping, piracy remains a problem. Monday's attacks occurred more than 1,000 miles (1,600 kilometers) apart, indicating the wide range of territory prowled by pirates and underscoring the difficulty of policing such a large area. Cmdr. John Harbour, the spokesman for the European Union's anti-piracy force, said the seizures were likely only a coincidence and not coordinated because several pirate bands operate in the Indian Ocean and Gulf of Aden.
Pirates anchor their captured crafts off Somalia's shore near the pirate strongholds of Haradhere and Hobyo. International forces can't rescue the vessels without risking the lives of the crew, leaving negotiated ransoms as the only safe means of resolution.
Link
Can't we lob a few bombs in there or something.
Sure, it's too much ocean to prevent all the hijackings, but they sure as hell could keep them from bringing the ships back home. :eyebrow:
Put the right people on the ships passing that area and the Hijackings will come to a compete halt.
Investigators for the UN Security Council have written a long report on the somali pirates, including their business model.
A basic piracy operation requires a minimum eight to twelve militia prepared to stay at sea for extended periods of time, in the hopes of hijacking a passing vessel. Each team requires a minimum of two attack skiffs, weapons, equipment, provisions, fuel and preferably a supply boat. The costs of the operation are usually borne by investors, some of whom may also be pirates.
To be eligible for employment as a pirate, a volunteer should already possess a firearm for use in the operation. For this ‘contribution’, he receives a ‘class A’ share of any profit. Pirates who provide a skiff or a heavier firearm, like an RPG or a general purpose machine gun, may be entitled to an additional A-share. The first pirate to board a vessel may also be entitled to an extra A-share.
At least 12 other volunteers are recruited as militiamen to provide protection on land of a ship is hijacked, In addition, each member of the pirate team may bring a partner or relative to be part of this land-based force. Militiamen must possess their own weapon, and receive a ‘class B’ share — usually a fixed amount equivalent to approximately US$15,000.
If a ship is successfully hijacked and brought to anchor, the pirates and the militiamen require food, drink, qaad, fresh clothes, cell phones, air time, etc. The captured crew must also be cared for. In most cases, these services are provided by one or more suppliers, who advance the costs in anticipation of reimbursement, with a significant margin of profit, when ransom is eventually paid.
When ransom is received, fixed costs are the first to be paid out. These are typically:
• Reimbursement of supplier(s)
• Financier(s) and/or investor(s): 30% of the ransom
• Local elders: 5 to 10 %of the ransom (anchoring rights)
• Class B shares (approx. $15,000 each): militiamen, interpreters etc.
The remaining sum — the profit — is divided between class-A shareholders.
linkNAIROBI (Reuters) - A U.S. warship captured five suspected pirates on Thursday after an exchange of fire in the Indian Ocean west of the Seychelles, the U.S. navy said.
After the clash, the U.S. warship chased the suspected pirate ship, which had been damaged, until it stopped, it said.
It captured three pirates on the skiff and another two on the mother ship. The United States said that it expected pirates to increase attacks on merchant vessels due to better weather from March through May.
"USS Nicholas captured suspected pirates on Thursday after exchanging fire, sinking a skiff, and confiscating a suspected mother ship," the U.S. Navy said in a statement. It did not say whether the pirates were Somalis.
Pirate sources and a maritime source said that a Taiwanese ship had also been hijacked on Thursday.
Somali pirates are seizing ships as far as the Mozambique Channel and off the coast of India and have started targeting ships bringing merchandise to Mogadishu's port.
They are holding captive at least eight mechanised Indian dhows, or small boats. Seven of them, with 100 crew members, were hijacked over the weekend on their way to the United Arab Emirates from Somalia.
LinkPut the right people on the ships passing that area and the Hijackings will come to a compete halt.
So hijackers recently tried to hijack a US navy frigate. West of the Seychelles Islands, USS Nicholas sunk a speed boat and then captured the mothership. From the Washington Post:
Shortly after midnight, the suspected pirates fired on the USS Nicholas west of the Seychelles Islands in an apparent attempt to seize the ship and hold it for ransom. The 453-foot frigate returned fire,
Who would be so dumb as to attempt to hijack a guided missile warship that is looking for battle? Pirates.
85% of all pirates are dumb
...
As usual, classicman again posts cheapshots in reply to everything I post. Wacko extremism and his gonorrhea humor are alive and well.
Who would be so dumb as to attempt to hijack a guided missile warship that is looking for battle? Pirates.
85% of all pirates are dumb
As usual, classicman again posts cheapshots in reply to everything I post. Wacko extremism and his gonorrhea humor are alive and well.
It wasn't a cheapshot at all, it is called a joke - relax ferchissakes.
[YOUTUBE]TruV3sxS9Zw&feature[/YOUTUBE]
I'm not sure how recent this is, it was emailed to me.
This videotape shows Russian Navy commandos on a Somalian pirate ship shortly after the pirates had captured a Russian oil tanker. The EuroUnion navy that patrols these waters would not interfere because they feared there could be casualties.
The soldiers freed their compatriots, moved all the pirates to their own (pirate) ship, search the pirate ship for weapons and explosives, then they left the ship and exploded it with the remaining pirates still aboard.
They sunk the pirates & their ship without any court proceedings, lawyers etc. That is, they used the anti-piracy laws of the 18th and 19th centuries where the captain of the rescuing ship has the right to decide what to do with the pirates. Usually, they were hung.
But but, they were just trying to make a living.
I used a translator to convert some of the comments that were in Russian. Pretty cool.
The old piracy laws may have been good when communication was slow and difficult, and transporting prisoners much harder. That doesn't seem to apply here. Hmmmm.
Mind you, some other nations catch pirates, take away their guns, and return them to their boats and set them free, no doubt with a stern warning to let their children starve next time. Nice, but it doesn't seem to be working.
Think of it this way. When was the last time you heard of an Israeli oil tanker being hijacked?
I hear ya, but those pirates certainly won't be hijacking anything on this planet ever again.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Fact is, if allowed free, they WILL get more guns, and they WILL continue to hijack vessels.
There's little you can do, 'cept blow 'em sky-high... until their Government sorts itself out, and fosters a better economy, than the one they currently have... and, no, we shouldn't interfere, we shouldn't help... that's not our job, it's their job. Last I checked, Somalia wasn't part of the United States of America, or the United Kingdom... money and aid should be shunted inwards, before anywhere else. :/
We're not helping, by holding their hands, and doing everything for them, eh?
So, yeah... screw 'em. Pirates walk a very thin line between life, and death... if we take away the death aspect, what's to stop them from a never-ending career of piracy? If they're allowed free, after each failed attempt, what's to stop them from continually attempting?
4 Americans on hijacked yacht dead off Somalia
The four Americans aboard a yacht hijacked by pirates off the coast of Somalia are dead.
Hijacked by Somali last Friday off Oman, the Quest was being piloted toward the Somali coast - and was being shadowed by a U.S. Navy warship.
CBS News national security correspondent David Martin reports that gunshots aboard the yacht were heard, and the warship took action.
All four Americans were dead, killed apparently by their captors. There were more than a dozen pirates on board, some dead and others captured, Martin reports.
The yacht passengers were Scott Adam and his wife, Jean, of Marina del Rey, Calif.; and Phyllis Macay and Bob Riggle, both of Seattle. The U.S. Central Command says negotiations had been under way to try to win the couples' release.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/22/501364/main20034691.shtmlThose pirates had better be glad that *I* am not President right now. I'd have green-lighted the Green Berets to kill every last one of the bastards in any creative manner they chose. As long as there are no witnesses. Then I'd have sent in troops to their hometown and started doing the only thing those people understand. And when their entire village was ashes and debris, I'd have put out the word that the next hostage taken would result in the same treatment, that would end this madness once and for all.
I'm pissed off!
That is basically the Russian solution. You don't hear much about Chinese or Russian ships being captured for ransom.
The USSR did the same thing in the late 70's and 80's during the spate of hostage taking in the middle east. None of them were kidnapped and held hostage for years. There is a reason for that.
If you are a Russian being held hostage, you're more likely to be killed by the cops trying to "rescue" you than the terrorists. See the Beslan school as one example and the Moscow theater as the other one.
You don't hear much about Chinese or Russian ships being captured for ransom.
Because it is not news. At any time, as many as 30 ships are being held by hijackers. Your conclusion has insufficient credibility once other facts are included. You don't hear about hijackings because hijacking is rather routine.
Yachts are some of the most hijacked. And so easily hijacked. Many will load their yachts on larger ships to bypass this region. But these people were distributing Bibles in a dangerous and unstable region. As if distributing Christianity in a Muslim region was going to protect them.
.
As if distributing Christianity in a Muslim region was going to protect them.
It worked for the crusaders.
Oh, wait, no it didn't.Q: What would you prefer, 33 years in Somalia or 33 years in an American prison?
As much as I'm prison averse, I think I'd go for three hots and a cot. Hard to say though.
I'm all for the plank or the Russian solution.
I'm all for the plank or the Russian solution.
Meanwhile the reason why Americans had so many more friends throughout the world. And even why so many Americans survived in WWII. We do not do what the Russian did.
Except when America popularity dropped to an all time low. When Americans routinely kidnapped (extraordinary rendition), imprisioned, and tortured innocent people. And extremists even in the Cellar said that was good (Hitler had an ashen smile).
Good point, but like qadaffi, can we still bank on 40 year old good will?
Good point, but like qadaffi, can we still bank on 40 year old good will?
Let's not forget why Kaddafi told Americans about Khan and his program to spread nuclear proliferation (successfully) over the world - for profit. Nobody knew about it until Kaddafi decided he needed a more honest and predictable response from Americans.
And, BTW, let’s not forget a nation that is probably the greatest threat to America. More than Iran or N Korea. Pakistan. But only if viewing from a long term perspective.
So why was Pakistan not listed in the Axis of Evil? For the same reason why torture, extraordinary rendition, and prisons with innocent people was also endorsed and encouraged. Their poker hand was dealt from a deck of emotions that also advocated lynch mobs and "string up the nigger".