Beggars
Do you give spare change to beggars? How often do you find yourself in the position of deciding whether or not to give? Do you have a strong opinion about it?
multi choice poll .....read all the answers before you submit your votes.
I only give them money if they don't ask for it.
I remember a recent visit to Philly with my sons where we were asked for money right outside a McDonalds. I refused him and we continued to go in and have lunch. My son asked if we could buy him lunch instead of giving him money he would probably waste. We did and he was most grateful for a warm meal.
Things your damn kids think of - eh?
I don't normally give directly to beggars. Instead I give to support institutions like Goodwill, AMVETS, The Red Cross, Salvation Army, etc. I believe greatly in the impact of and value of voluntary societies and their services to the needy public. That said, I also do not live in an urban area at the moment so I am not encountering beggars on a regular basis right now.
True story, there was this one guy who announced that he was the joke-telling beggar. He wanted to give something in return for your donation, so he had jokes. He said
"Who was the first carpenter."
who.
"Eve. She made Adam's banana stand."
I gave the guy all the change in my pocket.
i gave a guy a chic fil a sandwich tonight
Begging is illegal here, so we really don't see it other than the odd smoke bummer at the bus stop or drunk late at night.
We have a lot of charities which we give to though as often as we see them.
I make frequent trips with my wife to the LA wholesale flower mart, early in the morning. Every time, I load up my pocket with singles to hand out. I usually ask street people to give us a hand with loading the van, or schlepping things back and forth from the warehouse.
Last time I was in Edinburgh, Scotland, I was waiting for the public transit coach when a guy kept hovering around, asking us to move. He was picking up the cigarette butts off the ground, from under our feet, and using the remains to make his own ciggy's. When I got back to my friends house I told them because I had never seen it before and they said it's actually pretty common due to the high cost of cigarettes. I thought he was a beggar and I was pretty close to just taking him to the damn store and buying him a pack myself (and I'm a non-smoker).
I've also heard stories of beggars in NY making a killing on the streets who have a pretty high incomes so at the end of the day they would walk around the corner and get into their new sports car. I don't know if that ones true....
I have met quite a few beggars in Australia, in city centers in the evening usually. If I am walking through such a place I often have a few coins - $1 or $2 - in my pocket so if I do choose to give, I don't have to dig out my wallet.
I was approached by beggars several time in Japan. The weird thing was the gesture for "money" is to make a circle (representing a coin) with the thumb and forefinger, much like our "ok" gesture, but done in front of the stomach with the palm upwards. The "gimme money" gesture is to move this backwards and forwards gently.
I was quite taken aback, at first.
I always gave to ones who could ask me in English. They might be useful later on.
And on recycling nights I would sometimes leave several coins stacked neatly (to show it was on purpose) in a place where the homeless recycling scavengers would see it. It was always gone the next day.
If the beggars are polite or entertaining in some way, like UTs example, I'll give them something. Most often not what they would like but something.
Most of the beggars that I encounter are outside the US. That will surely change in the coming months as we see the screws tighten here, but anyway....
An American beggar will demand $5 if I offer them $2. Twenty if I offer five and so on. If they aren't satisfied they carry on which doesn't help their cause. I all but quit giving money and instead give food outside McDo or a grocery store.
The Filipino beggars are pretty easy to please with just a few pesos and a few minutes of my attention.
The older pinoys are those that get my sympathy. Most of the time we buy extra at the burger shack or grocery store and hand a small number of items out to people.
They are always thankful and appreciate what we give. Contrast that with the Americans that seem to gravitate to me and are never satisfied and rarely polite.
While my sis and I were in NOLA we ran into quite a few beggars. We always offered to buy them a sandwich (like fast food, whatever) but no money. They NEVER wanted the sandwich so we never gave them anything.
When I was in LA, outside the public library, a guy gave me a song and dance about being a student, his car being out of gas somewhere...etc and so on. He did have a pile of books but didn't look much like a student. I gave him 5 bucks, saying "Not sure about your story but I sure liked your approach." He just seemed very personable, and I was feeling very generous.
When a beggar asks me for money, I ask if he will give me a receipt. Yeah, I know, but fair is fair for all. We do give generously to charitable organizations and causes, but I'd be very tempted to give to an individual if I got a good joke or story from it!
When I first moved to this city, 19 years ago, I would give money to beggars. At some point after seeing the same beggars in the same spot for years, I decided I would stop. I figured I wasn't helping them, I was just enabling them. Now I give money to charities that help the homeless. I won't give a cent to a person on the the street asking me. I don't ignore them and walk by. I'll look them in the eye to acknowledge them and say "sorry, no."
In this city, there are plenty of places that feed the homeless, and there are a couple of shelters (although one is closing.) Nobody is going to starve on the streets of DC as things stand now.
Edit: FYI, I walk past about 6-10 beggars a day.
Bah, don't ever give anything, to anyone, ever. Do I look like fucking Santa Clause?
I never give money to men. Even in this day and age, men have a better chance of finding a job, and make more than women do. Fuck 'em.
I'll give food, though.
I give if I am able to. I honestly don't care that they may take that money and put it towards drugs or alcohol. If they're addicts their need is as urgent as my need for food, until they are cured of their addiction...and living in a shop doorway is not the best environment in which to find peace and clean living.
I also will on occasion give food as well. If for example, I have just been into Gregs and bought a sandwich, I may offer to share.
Yeah. I give when I can, I give what I can. I have also begged.
I give if I am able to. I honestly don't care that they may take that money and put it towards drugs or alcohol. If they're addicts their need is as urgent as my need for food, until they are cured of their addiction...and living in a shop doorway is not the best environment in which to find peace and clean living.
Is giving when you know they are addicts actually helping or is it just enabling and prolonging the problem until they are "cured of their addiction" as you put it?
Like Dana, I give what I can, when I can.
It's rare that the change in my pocket will mean more to me than it does to them - when it does, I look them in the eye and say, "Sorry, I have nothing."
I buy the Big Issue weekly - magazine that (registered) homeless sellers buy for 70p and sell for £1.50. I have a regular seller that I buy from, outside the Co-op. If I've bought it from someone else and have money in my pocket I will ask him if he wants anything from the shop. This varies from a banana, to a non-meat sandwich (I think he's Muslim - middle Eastern in appearance and accent) or a can of Red Bull (!). He recognises me, notices my hair changes and always says, "God bless you, God bless you!" Well, I don't mind that too much :)
I was brought up on the Gospel of St Matthew. Even my hard-bitten East End Nan used to give money to people on the street. Not beggars, but pavement artists, buskers, the performers in Covent Garden. Her credo was always - if they're that down on their luck they need it more than I do (she was a very proper lady and would have died rather than performed in public).
Also, we used to have charity collecters in town every Saturday. Our big thrill was to get 2p from Mum and run over to put the money in their collection tin. We'd get a big smile and a thank you and a sticker. I know "beggars" are not the same thing, but childhood experiences all count in this type of scenario.
PS - Bruce? I lol'd.
Most of the panhandlers in Philadelphia are pros. I need my money much more than they do, so I hold on to it. The ones in my neighborhood know that I don't give, so they usually don't ask. But if they say hello, I'll smile and say hello back.
Once I asked a guy, who used to come into our store to exchange "Hard money for soft money" why he always had so much change. He replied, "It's what I do. It's my job." He told me on another occasion that he was an alcoholic and couldn't keep a regular job, so I guess his chosen profession was the only job he felt he could keep. He did pretty well--made enough to be able to eat at nice Old City restaurants once in a while. :rolleyes:
Is giving when you know they are addicts actually helping or is it just enabling and prolonging the problem until they are "cured of their addiction" as you put it?
The reality of the situation, classic, is that they will get their drug come what may. My giving, or not....other passers by giving, or not will have no discernable effect on their addiction. Addicts don't give up drugs because they can't afford them. They simply find other, even less socially desirable ways of funding the habit. A full blown addiction outweighs
everything else. And sometimes ... judge me if you will for this ... alcohol keeps you warmer in the night than a bowl of soup and a piece of bread. And if you have spiralled into a life wrapped in heroin and the rituals that go with it, the daily mission to achieve the next £10 or £20 wrap
is your life. The earlier in the evening you can get hold of that solace, that absolute necessity if you are to get through the night without awful, rending, gut churning pain and distress, then the earlier you can begin finding somewhere to sleep and building up a bit of body heat in whatever space you find.
And y'never know. They may already have enough for that wrap, and yours might be the quid that buys them a meat pie or a cup of tea; a packet of fags, a toilet roll, tampons, the occasional call home to mum.
I've become fairly practiced at turning beggars down ... usually start by not making eye contact. Of course most of the beggars I'm dealing with are trying to game their way into the hospital AND to get a meal tray and maybe some cigarettes out of it.
I don't give out my own cigs any more, and only start microwaving a tray after the doctor has seen the person.
I remember a recent visit to Philly with my sons where we were asked for money right outside a McDonalds. I refused him and we continued to go in and have lunch. My son asked if we could buy him lunch instead of giving him money he would probably waste. We did and he was most grateful for a warm meal.
Things your damn kids think of - eh?
Your children must have very good parents! :)
*chuckles* yeah, I thought something similar when i read that.
oh and as a postscript to my earlier point: that's not to say I don't also walk past and pretend not to have seen at times as well. Depends on a bunch of considerations, like how broke or flush I am/feel, the weather, how much notice other people appear to be taking (if I get the impression other people are giving some, I may not do so myself on that occasion). It's very rare that I'll be in a city and not give something to beggars. It's not every time I go in town though. There are a couple of 'regulars' who I see from time to time. One of them, far too far gone to realise he's told me the exact same story about being stuck in this town and just needing to get train fare back, at least a dozen times. Another who is a hopeless alcoholic lady who always calls me duck and sits with her equally hopelessly alcoholic beau in the doorway of ladbrokes, next door to McD's.
Your children must have very good parents! :)
Thanks, thats very nice of you to say.
I'm genuinely surprised how few of us are in the "never" option. I think maybe we've got a little homeless-person Bradley effect going on here.
I give to actual charities, but specific people on the street? I've never even been tempted, not once. My first thought when someone approaches is actually, "Okay, are they just homeless, or is this one of the mentally unstable ones?" and I start considering escape options. I guess I'm heartless and paranoid.
The last "beggars" I came across were kids in Mexico... I gave them all the pesos in my pocket because and they let me take their pictures while they sang. Very sweet kids, as happy as they could be...
Generally if I have a little money handy and someone asks, I give them some. I don't care what they do with it, once I give it to them it's theirs. I'm not judging them or trying to change their lives and I think putting conditions on a gift is fucked up.
Generally if I have a little money handy and someone asks, I give them some. I don't care what they do with it, once I give it to them it's theirs. I'm not judging them or trying to change their lives and I think putting conditions on a gift is fucked up.
Amen.
Dana - Only if and when an addict hits bottom, will there possibly be a change. I know this all too well, thank you. I lived the reality on both sides. "Helping" is preventing them from hitting bottom and thats all I was referring to. Giving food can be argued as doing the same thing in a sense. I'm just torn on this kinda issue. I wanna help, but I think sometimes I'm perpetuation the situation instead.
Surely the bottom line is - can you afford to help?
Yes - here is $1
No - Sorry, mate
Multiply according to your status.
Why should it matter what they will spend it on? If you can spare it, then give it. If you can't, then don't.
Christmas is coming
The goose is getting fat
Please put a penny
In the old man's hat
If you haven't got a penny
A ha'penny will do
If you haven't got a ha'penny
Then God bless you
I think maybe we've got a little homeless-person Bradley effect going on here.
The Cellar is either unusually generous, or I think you are right. The overwhelming majority of people (in this city anyway) just walk past homeless panhandlers as if they are part of the landscape, like a tree or fire hydrant or something. Like they are invisible. I at least make eye contact with them and answer them when they ask me for money. But somebody must be giving them money, or they probably wouldn't bother asking for it.
I think the frequency of contact with panhandlers might have something to do with it too.
There was a law passed in DC about ten years ago that said that panhandlers can't block your path when they are asking for money. It used to be they would step in front of you so you would have to walk around them. The begging was worse back then. Now at least they stay to the side.
I'm sympathetic to them and sometimes feel guilty as I walk past someone whose face clearly shows they are in a desperate situation, but that's why I give to charities that are designed to help the homeless. It eases the conscience knowing that there is food for them nearby because I've already helped pay for it. I also marched in a "help the homeless" fund raising thing a couple of weeks ago. Got a t-shirt and everything.
But there is no way I'm going to give them money so they can shoot up again.
The Cellar is either unusually generous, or I think you are right.
I'm sympathetic to them and sometimes feel guilty as I walk past but that's why I give to charities that are designed to help the homeless. It eases the conscience knowing that there is food for them nearby because I've already helped pay for it.
But there is no way I'm going to give them money so they can shoot up again.
Thanks glatt - as usual you said it better than I could. I donate plenty to charities and organizations which directly help those less fortunate.
After that thing with United Way a couple of years ago, I'd prefer to give the money directly to those in need.
I see it as 2 separate issues really, with some charities being far more manipulative and annoying than any individual beggar.
And not all beggars are less fortunate, some prefer the lifestyle they live. They don't want to "succeed" in "Babylon", they want to do their own thing. Even the conditions that the Salvation Army etc. puts on their help is too much for many - and those places are freaking creepy.
That's two good points in a row, jinx. Quit it!
;)
I see it as 2 separate issues really, with some charities being far more manipulative and annoying than any individual beggar.
And not all beggars are less fortunate, some prefer the lifestyle they live. They don't want to "succeed" in "Babylon", they want to do their own thing. Even the conditions that the Salvation Army etc. puts on their help is too much for many - and those places are freaking creepy.
Find a reputable charity easilyI love beggars. They're always around and they're so handy for scraping icky stuff off the bottom of my shoes. They usually don't even wake up.;)
So that was YOU! I was down and out, cousin. Didja have to use me as your own personal welcome mat?
Oh, how about THIS.
Let's start a fund for Cellar Alms. Next time one of us comes across a panhandler and feels the urge to give, keep it, and put it in the fund instead. If enough is built up, then whenever any of us falls on hard times and needs some help to get by, we can request some of the funds.
I think I would rather give one of you a few bucks to help pay your electric bill or get a couple of meals, instead of some guy on the street pretending to be hard up, while he's got a hunge in small bills in his pocket.
I'm skeptical. First, I need to know what a hunge is. ;)
After that thing with United Way a couple of years ago, I'd prefer to give the money directly to those in need.
Yeah, that really pissed me off. I had been donating a lot to United Way up until then.
I'm skeptical. First, I need to know what a hunge is. ;)
My long-standing daily Cellar search for the term "hunge" has finally paid off!
We could all use more hunge in our lives. :D
Puh...I gave a certain amount to UW one year, and they were to give us each a primo parking space for part of the year. I got assigned a summer part, when there are hardly any students anyway, then let a girl who had a motorcycle accident have it because she was on crutches. I won't fall for THAT again. At least if I give money to a drunk I can see the fruits of my generosity later, when he's got a bottle of Mad Dog and blurry eyes. [/totallykiddingiswear]
I must admit, I am quite sceptical about some of the charities. There are some that I feel comfortable giving to and others I am not really so sure of.
Hunge, not drunge!
That's my motto.
:lol:
We need a group hunge.
I wonder if that's good exercise?
I wonder if that's good exercise?
It is if a cat is involved.
Aaah, I am actually friends with the homeless, so sometimes I give nothing, sometimes I just give change, or sometimes I have the car they are living in towed so it can be fixed.
Yeppers. I have me some beggar friends. I can be friends with anybody. Anybody that isn't a dick.
I've had friends that were homeless and who have begged, but I lost touch with them when I left Bolton.
I must admit, I am quite sceptical about some of the charities. There are some that I feel comfortable giving to and others I am not really so sure of.
Same here. I'm not about to give to an organization that will waste a good portion of my donation. A big reason why I like non-profits handling social issues rather than the Feds, the gov tends to be inefficient. If you can't find a local organization that you see as worthy of your monetary donation, might I suggest try just volunteering your time? Somewhere like a food bank for example. Just a thought :thumb:
Yeppers. I have me some beggar friends. I can be friends with anybody. Anybody that isn't a dick.
Guess I'm out then.:neutral:
Well there are exceptions to that too. It depends on whether I like the manner in which someone is a dick. You are no example of this, but I do know some people that are.
Heh. ;)
If you can't find a local organization that you see as worthy of your monetary donation, might I suggest try just volunteering your time? Somewhere like a food bank for example. Just a thought :thumb:
I have absolutely no desire to volunteer my time in a foodbank.
Originally Posted by Cicero
Yeppers. I have me some beggar friends. I can be friends with anybody. Anybody that isn't a dick.
Guess I'm out then.:neutral:
Hey....dicks have their place.....
*waits*
Now see, no Brit would ever let that last one go by...
I have absolutely no desire to volunteer my time in a foodbank.
Why the certainty, out of curiosity?
*Shrugs* Just doesn't appeal to me as a way of spending my time. I'm happy to help out with cash if I can afford it, but I don't need an additional call on my time and that kind of work doesn't appeal to me.
She's already in public service. I don't think she needs to do any more.
Unless I'm wrong. Which is just too likely. :)
I'm not suggesting she should. I'm just trying to figure out what makes her time more valuable than her money, to her. (Speaking as someone who doesn't give any money to individual beggars, remember. My money is decidedly more valuable to me, on that scale.)
Once I saw nuns get sentenced to community service. That was hilarious. (reminded of at this point)
I think, Clod, the certainty in my response was more to do withthe fact i am not actively seeking a way to help. When I'd mentioned my mistrust of charities, I was more talking about my response to charities who've tried to solicit my support, rather than that I was seeking to help out but am suspicious of the charities, which I think was what Bullitt thought I meant ;P
Oh and Cic, yeah that's also a big part of it. Community activity is sort of my day job, so I am not really looking for more *smiles*
I can't believe we haven't got to this yet, so ....
Always give small change widely and often. Think of it as burley (small bits of bait scattered by fishermen to attract fish to the general area). More and more beggars will migrate to your habitat.
That way, your next hobo-killing spree is guaranteed to be a fun filled weekend of mayhem and bloodshed.
hahahahahaha. Oh dear. That did make me laugh.
Yes that is was what I thought, thanks for clarifying Dana. I'm not here to guilt trip :p
The thing you have to keep in mind is this:
When you give something to someone who has less than you, and is in need
, you do it for yourself, not for them. You do it because it makes you feel good to help them up. If you concern yourself with what they are going to do with it, and treat your gift as though it were still yours....then you haven't gotten value for your gift. regardless of what they do with it, it will never satisfy your expectation, so .....
I don't care what they do with it, once I give it to them it's theirs. I'm not judging them or trying to change their lives and I think putting conditions on a gift is fucked up.
what SHE said.
*nods* I think that makes sense Jim.
There's also another 'selfish' element: there but for the grace of God go I. I would like to think that if I, or anyone I loved, was in that appalling situation, somebody would help out in some small way.
Fuck the poor. I'll give you fifty cents the take my guilt away...
I'm skeptical. First, I need to know what a hunge is. ;)
Despite what you may have read, I am actually, well, hunge
:p
Oh I love that song!
Where d' ya think I heard about it?
Despite what you may have read, I am actually, well, hunge
:p
Like Jesus?
I never give money for nothing. Now I'm used to it and able to expect it, when we roll up as tourists in cities like Chicago, New Orleans... I have several singles ready in my pockets for the guys who turn up with "advice" for stuff to see and a "free" street map/visitors guide etc. When we first hit Chicago after being here only a few months, I felt mugged by the guy who gave our kid in a stroller a postcard then demanded money for his service. But now I expect it, it's Ok, i can live with it. they're earning their money in their own way. if they're rude or pushy or frighten me or my children, they can piss off, though.
Other than that, I usually have supplies of bottled water in the car and if it's a hot day and I have one to hand, I'll offer one to the guys who stand at the freeway exits. Sometimes pieces of fruit. But they do annoy me with their "will work for food" signs. call me cynical, but they're positioned in a place where no-one can stop to negotiate this deal "work" or is even in a frame of mind to think what they might need doing. They just want money, which is fine, but I hate dishonesty. I guess it works for them.
I haven't encountered much in the way of pushy begging I have to admit. The pushiest it tends to get in Leeds and Bradford is someone coming up and saying "scuse me love, sorry *slurred speech* I wouldnt ask, but I cant get home, I'm tryin to get train fare, you couldnt spare us some some change could you?"
I am not sure how charitable I'd be if people were getting in my face over it.
a hunge is a hundred dollar bill.
i dont give any to the ones that have the word GOD on their sign. In fact....signs put me off.
A beggar lady in NYC tried to spit on my friend because we didn't give her any money. We really didn't have any to spare though, so fuck her.
We all got miracled at the Dead show that night and then left the next day because we couldn't afford to keep the bus parked.
Despite what you may have read, I am actually, well, hunge
:p
Don't worry. I rarely believe what I read on the ladies room wall anyway. :rolleyes:
Like Jesus?
Let's not get carried away. No one is that hunge.
a hunge is a hundred dollar bill.
i dont give any to the ones that have the word GOD on their sign. In fact....signs put me off.
I really didn't know that. I could have googled I guess. Thanks for the info.
Oh, I feel the same way about the sign...like they're saying if I don't give then I'm a sinner. Perhaps, but I'm a sinner who works hard for her money, and it's my prerogative if I decide to give some to you.
Naaah. They don't believe their own signs. They are just trying to market to the jesus crowd. Makes them more money to play on the people of faith. It's too bad it works, or they wouldn't do it. Most of the beggars here are professional. They have turned pro. They house-sit for old rich ladies and keep them company during tough times. They are usually slightly crazy, but intelligent enough to carry a good conversation about art or theology. The old rich ladies love the company, and love that someone is fixing things up around the house. They are kept like male pets. Of course they go from one house-sitting situation to the other, but they can usually find this type of work year round.
I'm a beggar at work. Most of my current income comes from the glass that people throw their change or small bills in for service. It's pretty close to the guy in the street, though I have to work hard for it. Please put your extra money in this cup, thank you have a nice day. Don't care for pennies? I'll take them all, don't care...they add up over time.
Damn, just realised I'll probably never get the money from the tuck box! There's about £10 worth of chocolate and cigarettes in there, damn.
I wonder if my Big Issue seller will wonder where I've gone. I bet the man at the Afro-Caribbean shop will - I was in there every day.
Talking about God - last time I went to get my hair cut there was a young lad stood with a sign to another hairdressers. I would have been tempted to go and check their prices, but the bottom of the sign said, "God gave you hair, [hairdresser] gives you style."
Nope, nuh-uh. Not going to crazy Christian hairdressers, sorry.
Anyway, I doubt it could have been cheaper than £13.50, even if I did hate it (she did exactly what I asked and it didn't suit me).
Think I might colour my hair again tomorrow. Go back ro red.
Sorry, rambling.
I give to charity.
BUT if I were in say Mexico l would give to a child.
I don't give money to men holding signs and putting their family on parade. I have a bitter point of view toward that then I wonder if I would ever be as desparate to do such a thing? I think, Nah, never.
Damn men. Be stronger than the weakest female I know. ( me )
That said,I have given a quarter or two to someone asking for change for a phone call.
Ha - I've just remembered. When I was about 27 I was going to see my bf who lived in Brighton. I'd fallen over the day before and taken the skin off about half of my palm. The damn thing was throbbing like a migraine, even all bandaged up.
Anyway, I needed to go for a wee, and on Victoria Station that means you have to pay. The attendant wasn't answering the bell, so up came back up the stairs and asked people if they had any change. I had a pound coin in my hand - I wasn''t asking for money. I was young, well dressed, really quite attractive :) and it was about 11.00 on a Saturday. I think it was the fourth person I approached who listened rather than blanking me and walking past.
It really shocked me - I'd been mistaken for a beggar!
Then again, I did the same to another woman, walking through Leicester. I could see her looking at me as I walked along and thought, "Damn, she's going to ask me for something." I considered pretending to take a phone call or something, but figured I'd have to face it out. Turns out a button on my shirt was undone and she wanted to let me know. She had no idea what I'd been thinking, but as I walked off I burned with shame for mis-judging her.
i had a guy approach me in a liquor store parking lot with a song and dance about his car being broken down, and being out of cash, and he knew my boss (dealer tag with CHN bracket on the demo i was driving) and he would give it to him when he saw him next.
I knew it was lies, and yet....i was pretty flush at the time, so i gave him a 20. I hope he got good and drunk.
Oh, I feel the same way about the sign...like they're saying if I don't give then I'm a sinner.
"Lick my balls if you love jesus!" "You gotta do it..."
Louis CK
hahahahah that's brilliant.
i had a guy approach me in a liquor store parking lot with a song and dance about his car being broken down, and being out of cash, and he knew my boss (dealer tag with CHN bracket on the demo i was driving) and he would give it to him when he saw him next.
I knew it was lies, and yet....i was pretty flush at the time, so i gave him a 20. I hope he got good and drunk.
And where is that liquor store you shop at, again? :yelgreedy
Speaking of liquor...you know the panhandler I'd mentioned, who used to exchange his coins for cash at our store? MonkeyBoy ran into him yesterday, and he actually asked MB for money. This was strange, because he never asks either of us for a handout--probably because he knows that we know how much money he takes in.
He told MB he wanted money to buy beer. Normally, I would think that he'd already have enough to buy beer. But who knows, maybe the economy is affecting panhandlers, too.
it was that stop n shop on admiral wilson blvd.....westbound.
'Round here we call them Stop -n- Rob.
I like giving money to buskers or other musical types. Okay, not for kazooists, but even a li'l ole harmonica can tip it. Value received for value given.
I don't know what the rules are anywhere else, but here, if you want to busk, you have to go for an audition and get a licence before you're allowed to put your hat out. I'm not sure if the licence costs you or not, but the process generally guarantees reasonable street entertainment.
I noticed that in Sydney - they earned their money! Great music, well performed, added to the vibe rather than taking away.
There's some great talent in Sydney. Lots of live music to be had there any night of the week.
We made a record there many years ago, and it was a thoroughly enjoyable experience, both inside and outside the studio.
I'm just curious, why is it considered weak in the poll question to give, and then regret it later?
I'm definitely not in the fuck em crowd. For a drunk on the street a 5 spot is a step closer to death or getting sober. I give em the money.
I don't know what the rules are anywhere else, but here, if you want to busk, you have to go for an audition and get a licence before you're allowed to put your hat out.
You have to audition to busk on the London Unerground too. Elsewhere, no. But the Police will move you on.
I'm just curious, why is it considered weak in the poll question to give, and then regret it later?
I had to chose
Give enough to make them smile for the same reason.
I'm just curious, why is it considered weak in the poll question to give, and then regret it later?
.
that particular answer indicates that you wouldn't normally give, but you got caught at a moment of weak will, and gave because it was easier than saying no.
Chiggers can't be boozers
When a beggar asks me for money, I ask if he will give me a receipt. Yeah, I know, but fair is fair for all. We do give generously to charitable organizations and causes, but I'd be very tempted to give to an individual if I got a good joke or story from it!
A receipt... how come I never thought of that.
I've given to these "Will work for food" or "Please Help - Disabled Vet."
Damn... about a month ago I was at the Hospital Emergency room because my mother was having chest pains (she's okay, she had a Stint put in the next day). Anyway, I was outside making a couple of phone calls and this guy comes up to me and asks if I have any money so he can get his prescription filled. I told him "no" and he kept bugging me while I was trying to talk on the phone. I finished my call and called the Police Department. The guy gave me real weird look and walked away.
I said "no." How difficult is that to understand? Gheese...
I'm a cold-hearted bastard and never give anything to bums.
I once gave a Sunday paper to a bum in Philly, told him to read it to refresh himself on the world and then turn to the Help Wanted section and get a job.
The reason I have money and they don't is that I have a job, work hard and honestly and do not give my hard-earned cash away.
He threw it at me and cussed at me. Ingrate.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day...teach him to fish and he eats forever.
once I give it to them it's theirs. I'm not judging them or trying to change their lives and I think putting conditions on a gift is fucked up.
I'm a cold-hearted bastard and never give anything to bums.
I once gave a Sunday paper to a bum in Philly,[COLOR=Red] told him to read it to refresh himself on the world and then turn to the Help Wanted section and get a job.[/COLOR]
The reason I have money and they don't is that I have a job, work hard and honestly and do not give my hard-earned cash away.
He threw it at me and cussed at me. Ingrate.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day...teach him to fish and he eats forever.
[COLOR=Red]GOOD EXAMPLE[/COLOR]
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it a fish.
It's interesting how many people wouldn't give a person in need a freakin' dollar, but seem to support the concept of wealth redistribution in the politics threads...:right:
[SIZE=1]
It's mine, I worked for it, they might not really need it, they might spend it on things I don't approve of etc etc...[/SIZE]
it is? only 6 people voted for give them nothing......
Better a beggar than a big booger. Yes I came up with that myself...Thanks folks I'll be here all night.
Yes, it is.
OK, so name names! Who's a fucking hyporite?
I hate that word 'bum' it makes the person you're talking about sound worthless, dehumanised.
I also have some sympathy for the guy who flung back the newspaper: after all, life's bad enough if you've nothing without being patronised and condescended to by someone who is doing fine.
That's exactly what it means.
Quick definitions (bum)
▸ noun: a disreputable vagrant ("He tried to help the really down-and-out bums")
▸ noun: person who does no work ("A lazy bum")
▸ noun: the fleshy part of the human body that you sit on
▸ noun: a person who is deemed to be despicable or contemptible ("Throw the bum out")
▸ verb: be lazy or idle ("Her son is just bumming around all day")
▸ verb: ask for and get free; be a parasite
▸ adjective: of very poor quality
Then it's a fucking appalling word to apply to a person.
Especially since there is going to be so very many more of them in the coming year.
Dana, I may be politically incorrect but I am precise in my use of words.
Many of our beggars today are there by choice and it is not uncommon to see one in clean clothes, new shoes and well-fed. There are umpteen outreach programs designed to take them off the streets and put them back in productive lives but they do not take advantage of them. If the bum in question does truly want to get off the street and be productive, then they will. Help is there for the asking.
And there was once a case of an old, indigent woman who carried all her possessions in shopping bags for many years. One winter, she finally succumbed to the elements and died. In her bags, police found over $20,000 in cash.
Oh and I lied...I once gave a dollar to a bum in dirty clothes and a dress to stop jumping up and down in front of my car and go away. It was worth the investment. Oh, and also once I gave a sandwich and a bag of dog food to a bum near a truck stop who had a skinny dog.
So perhaps I lied about NEVER giving stuff to bums. But let's call it rarely. VERY rarely.
Many of our beggars today are there by choice
Unless the individual is known to you, you have no idea what put them where they are, or what barriers they see in their way. If you have a friend, and know that friend to be an idle sod who just hates work, then the word bum may be appropriate. I don't like the judgement cast about people we don't know.
Sorry, not meaning to be a pain :P I have always hated that word.
I do know many of those individuals, and the word "bum," although it has fallen out of favor because of political correctness, does still apply.
"Homeless" sounds so much more pitiable than "worthless piece of shit who won't do anything to help or support him/herself but expects me to work so that not only will my tax dollars flow downhill to him/her, but also demands money, food, a place to stay, drugs, and sundries be handed over immediately."
I know them. I know their stories. Not a noble mother of four struggling to find her children a better life among them.
I hate that word 'bum' it makes the person you're talking about sound worthless, dehumanised. .
There's probably an element of you being a Brit in there. Over here the term is not more commonly used to mean the arse/ass.
I once gave a Sunday paper to a bum in Philly, told him to read it to refresh himself on the world and then turn to the Help Wanted section and get a job..
Perhaps he couldn't read? Was severly dyslexic or had cataracts?
I know them. I know their stories. Not a noble mother of four struggling to find her children a better life among them.
I'm not sure that the ones you encounter in your line of work are a true sampling.
Many of the 'mothers of four' can usually find something other than street begging. There are still a lot of organizations, Govmt and NGO, who can help the determined. Still, shelters are full, low-income housing is getting scarcer, and an already overstretched system just took a big hit.
It would be interesting if someone would buy up all of the foreclosed homes and turn them into multi-family shelters. I'm not sure how the suburban communities would feel, but it would probably be better than an abandoned firetrap.
IMO, kids should never be homeless. In some cases it might be the parents fault. In other cases, everyone is one job loss or serious under/uninsured injury away from losing everything. It is possible to do everything right and still end up homeless.
Perhaps he couldn't read? Was severly dyslexic or had cataracts?
Or drunk. Don't forget drunk.
I can read when I'm drunk. It's the typing thing I have difficulty with....
According to studies done on homeless people in Australia, a large percentage of them suffer from mental illnesses including anything from severe schizophrenia to mild depression, and of course anyone who's ever suffered even mildly from depression knows how hard it can be to drag yourself out of the black hole you're in even if you have a support network around you.
How hard would it be if you had no one to help you?
Perhaps he couldn't read? Was severly dyslexic or had cataracts?
Doubt it. Eyes worked fine, and though I don't know if he could read, it's a good bet. And he wasn't drunk or in need of one, either. He had a nervous tic of rubbing his left forearm with his right hand and he gave the impression of needing a fix more. I felt a lot of anxiety from him, and some anger (before me). Probably a mental patient released from one of several institutions when they were closed in the Philadelphia area. Off meds, likely. Or a junkie not too far gone for me to spot easily.
Either way, not worthy of my money.
Probably a mental patient released from one of several institutions when they were closed in the Philadelphia area. Off meds, likely. Or a junkie not too far gone for me to spot easily.
Either way, not worthy of my money.
?
Actually, speaking of mental patients. Dazza is in Canada atm. He was in Vancouver first, and the thing that struck him the most was the number of homeless people. Now he's in Calgary and he said there's no where near the number of homeless people. He suggested that's because there's better mental health facilities there. I suggest that it's too fucking cold to have no home in Calgary.
lol!!! Yea. I hope they closed down the good personality he had, while they were at it!! Asshole handicap.
You should have pinched him Brian, and let him know that it isn't merely just a nightmare, he's having.
*I never roll my eyes but this is the exception*
For the record, I said "Brian" in my head, all shitty just now.
Now he's in Calgary and he said there's no where near the number of homeless people. He suggested that's because there's better mental health facilities there. I suggest that it's too fucking cold to have no home in Calgary.
Calgary is a boom town. People there tell me there is no unemployment for anyone willing to work. They have a chronic shortage of help, though that may change in the future.
Hmmm...maybe that's why they're thinking of starting up a new department in Dazza's company there.
its all about crack cocaine here, so no, i never give.
anyone who gives a crackhead money is an idiot.
a heroin addict is a different story, i would consider giving, although you don't see them on the streets i pass.
Crack, smack ... what's the difference? I mean in terms of giving them money.
Crack, smack ... what's the difference? I mean in terms of giving them money.
hell would be the difference.
with heroin, there's not much of a choice but to use.
its not something that you can cut cold turkey.
goverments around the world have responsibly taken that into consideration and provide alternatives for heroin addicts.
free-basing cocaine is not quite the same thing.
Okay, then. I've never done either, but I thought crack was also highly addictive.
Physically or psychologically? Two very different things.
I don't know much about it either, but I do know that the risks associated with withdrawal are different for different drugs. As far as I know, alcohol and heroin are two of the worst for unguided withdrawal.
Okay, then. I've never done either, but I thought crack was also highly addictive.
no doubt whatsoever, smoking cocaine is about as addictive as it gets.
Physically or psychologically? Two very different things.
with crack, it is physical, but more psychological.
speaking metaphorically, crack is a substitute to oxygen.
but the withdrawl on a physical level cannot compare to heroin.
most long term heroin users end up shooting up to survive.
suprise suprise, the most common opiate users are doctors[morphine]
They gave me morphine after my first c-section, and I hated it. Coming down off it I was itching all over like you wouldn't believe. I was begging for more Benadryl to try to make it stop.
morphine made me blow chunks. So fast and so impressively that all the medical staff agreed that wasn't a viable pain relief option. as they all changed their scrubs and requested double layers.....
Who was chunks? Your boyfriend?
The only beggars I would give directly to would be children. They didn't get themselves into the situation, and they have the least ability to get themselves out of it. Otherwise I don't trust them, I want to help people who can't help themselves. I just feel like the likeliness of an adult beggar actually having no other recourse other than begging is low. In some countries I know that's not true, but here it is. Especially in or around my city.
My pocket change is important, I keep it, and it adds up to $100 or more at the end of the year. I'm always thinking about the future, and my worry for now is taking care of my parents. I don't want to give my money to a beggar who might use it for their next hit, which they might OD on. I really don't give a shit for addicts I don't know, and if I know ya and you're an addict, I am most def NOT buying you drugs, but I won't allow you to stay on the street either. I want to use it to help those around me. The charities I have more interest in are those that help kids/abused, 3rd world, and sick/handicapped.
It just seems to me that living on the streets is hard.
I can't see it as a cushy option.
And begging is dangerous and must be soul destroying.
I have read similar reports to Ali, published in the UK re the amount of homeless people with mental health problems. I know it was exacerbated in this country when the Govt of the time moved away from mental health institutions and into "care in the community" which was basically a recipe to let people fall through the cracks. One particular one was commissioned by the NHS in Leicester and the statistics would make you weep - percentages with disorders, who have been assaulted, raped in the case of women, who have STDs, TB, AIDs etc. Many have long term health conditions which will kill them if alcoholism and street living don't beat them to it.
I figure that someone who is reduced to having to ask strangers for money is far worse off than I am. Therefore if I have something to spare, they will value it more than I do. Oh and if they are in fact a clever scammer, only pretending to be drunk and scruffy and dirty, and are going home that night to a penthouse apartment, well enough of my money goes in profit to other fat cats, one more isn't exactly going to break me.
It just seems to me that living on the streets is hard.
I can't see it as a cushy option.
And begging is dangerous and must be soul destroying.
I have read similar reports to Ali, published in the UK re the amount of homeless people with mental health problems. I know it was exacerbated in this country when the Govt of the time moved away from mental health institutions and into "care in the community" which was basically a recipe to let people fall through the cracks. One particular one was commissioned by the NHS in Leicester and the statistics would make you weep - percentages with disorders, who have been assaulted, raped in the case of women, who have STDs, TB, AIDs etc. Many have long term health conditions which will kill them if alcoholism and street living don't beat them to it.
I figure that someone who is reduced to having to ask strangers for money is far worse off than I am. Therefore if I have something to spare, they will value it more than I do. Oh and if they are in fact a clever scammer, only pretending to be drunk and scruffy and dirty, and are going home that night to a penthouse apartment, well enough of my money goes in profit to other fat cats, one more isn't exactly going to break me.
Yep bein homeless isn't cushy. But I'm talking about beggars, not homeless. Just b/c they say, act, look homeless doesn't mean they are.
The mental illness is a problem here too. If I have something to spare then it should go to a friend. The friend and I both will value that more. Think about it tho SG. If you cared about that money really helping people, then why not save it and give it to a friend/family down on hard times? Or a reputable charity? Givin your money to the right people increases its and your power to help. Yeah alot of money already goes to greedy bastards, so whenever I can I try to keep it away from them. I do care about where my money goes because I have so little of it to give away that I want to do the most with it I can.
I figure that someone who is reduced to having to ask strangers for money is far worse off than I am. Therefore if I have something to spare, they will value it more than I do. ....one more isn't exactly going to break me.
I was wondering if any female Dwellars (or male, if it's your bag) have any nail varnish knocking about that they don't use?.....Anyway, I am working hard not to waste my money, so I thought if you have one that you gebuinely won't wear again, I can give it a new home.
OK, so we're not "complete" strangers, and this is a frivolous, chatty request, but you were asking us to pay shipping for bottles of old nail polish so you could make your toes pretty.... The spare change you give to beggars would probably have bought some cheap and cheerful nail polish.
you know I love ya, but these just don't go together rationally. Pocket change adds up. It's still money. You post about being worried about borrowing from your parents, and then this.... They don't need it more than you do, because lack of money is making you unhappy.
Rest of cellar may now proceed with monster hatemail:......
Fair point. But it was you that pointed out the shipping cost to me. I didn't really think it through.
And the amount I give away doesn't add up to all that much. I worried about the fact my parents had given me £30 and my salary hadn't cleared in my bank. It did clear and I gave them the money back. Do I give £30 to beggars? No.
I accept that if I were financially responsible, I would put every piece of change that I thought disposable into savings. And then when a real emergency occurred, I'd have it to draw on. But the truth is I'm no more able to identify a real emergency (as opposed to a desire to paint my toenails) than I am to keep my mitts off the money in the first place.
Please note, I haven;t asked for anything from anyone in the Cellar in quite a while, and I was probably wrong to do so in the first place. Obviously I am capable of working and earning my own money. Being lousy with money is no excuse, and I accept that. My only disclaimer is that aside from time off for depression (during which I did volunteer) I have always worked for a living, and will probably have two jobs again within the next month.
I do not pretend to be better than other people or make out that their attitude to people who beg for things is wrong. Mine is just different and I was stating my point of view.
understood. Might not be a bad idea to have recepticle for pocket change by the door. Empty your change before you leave, except for what you need for public transport. at the end of each month, change what you can into notes. Or, given how you feel about the homeless beggars (which is perfectly legit, but......), why not dump the higher change in the bowl and keep the lower change (10p 5p etc) -that way you can satisfy both needs?
FAnd the amount I give away doesn't add up to all that much. I worried about the fact my parents had given me £30 and my salary hadn't cleared in my bank. It did clear and I gave them the money back. Do I give £30 to beggars? No.
Lets do the math!
Say you only ever give .50 at a time to a beggar, and you do this once a week. Well after one year you've given:
.50x52=26
In that one year you gave away 26, if you'd saved that you wouldn't have ever had borrowed from your parents. If you'd put it in a bank, and get an interest rate of 2.23% (what i get). Don't add anything to it. Compound 1x annually, you make .58.
Add what you save from the beggars that year tho: you make a $1.16. Leave that for 10 yrs. Add 26 each year, compound once annually, you make 106.54
Now that don't sound like much in the picture of things, but add in your regular savings. Being a bargain hunter, instead of charity: save, ect. That can be alot more. Get a better interest rate too. Invest in CDs and such
My lazy way of calculating:
http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm
I'm just sayin givin your $$ to random beggars is'nt the best way to stretch it out to help the most ppl.
Invest in CDs and such
CD = a type of savings bond. In this context.
thanks monnie
i need help...too much of the alcohol stuffs
You're a compassionate person SG. I understand your point. When I was a single mum and full time student I still kept up my charitable donations even though at times I needed help financially myself. The people I gave to in general were nowhere near as lucky as me though even though I was at some low points in my life.
Do what you need to do and give without regret. If anyone didn't feel like giving to you at the time you asked, or wasn't in a position to do so, I definitely didn't notice you complaining. I only noticed your grateful thanks.
Maybe as others suggest you should save your pennies, but maybe the world is a better place because you don't. Who is anyone else to judge?
Last time I was in Edinburgh, Scotland, I was waiting for the public transit coach when a guy kept hovering around, asking us to move. He was picking up the cigarette butts off the ground, from under our feet, and using the remains to make his own ciggy's. When I got back to my friends house I told them because I had never seen it before and they said it's actually pretty common due to the high cost of cigarettes. I thought he was a beggar and I was pretty close to just taking him to the damn store and buying him a pack myself (and I'm a non-smoker).
I've also heard stories of beggars in NY making a killing on the streets who have a pretty high incomes so at the end of the day they would walk around the corner and get into their new sports car. I don't know if that ones true....
My sister lived in Manhattan for a few years, and yes, that is true. A begger was asking my mom for money once when we visited, and there was a cop on the street who came over and warned her about him. Apparently he was a millionaire (this was back in the early 80s) who begged in his spare time. go figure, huh?
I don't see too many beggers where I live now (Savannah GA), but when I lived in Los Angeles, they were everywhere. I would never give money to someone who was young and obviously capable of working. I used my judgement. There were certain people around Venice to whom I always gave money. There was this Veitnam Vet who hung out by the library or the post office. I always gave him a few bucks or would bring him some food. There was this little lady who hung at the same place, I usually gave her money as well. I NEVER would buy alcohol for them, but many times if I was headed into the store, I would ask what they liked and I would buy it for them. A burrito, or an an apple or banana. Young kids with attitude, I handed out advice, like get a job. :D I understand some of those people, especially kids, choose to live on the streets. They squat in houses, so they have no rent or bills to pay. I'm not going to support them when they are capable of working, and they are, they just like being underground. People who were willing to do something for change, like wash your car windows, I would generally give them some money. I never, ever just completely ignored them though. I always looked them in the eye, and tried to treat them with respect. Not all street people are there by choice. And I think they really appreciate it when you take the time to talk to them, and don't just pretend they aren't there. And sometimes I simply didn't have the money to spare. At first it make me feel guilty to not give them money, but I got over it pretty quick, especially when they give you attitude if you don't give them anything.
it is? only 6 people voted for give them nothing......
Ah, but it's 7 of us cold-hearted bastids now.
However, if one voted that it depends, or one follows their whims, then it seems to me there are some judgmental shenanigans going on somewhere in there, aren't there? Hmmmmmm??
Dana - Only if and when an addict hits bottom, will there possibly be a change. I know this all too well, thank you. I lived the reality on both sides. "Helping" is preventing them from hitting bottom and thats all I was referring to. Giving food can be argued as doing the same thing in a sense. I'm just torn on this kinda issue. I wanna help, but I think sometimes I'm perpetuation the situation instead.
There are different bottoms though. I agree enabling is bad, which is why I rarely gave money, I usually gave food. I'm just saying, you never know what effect something will have on another person, and actually get them on the path to change. I know the situation as well, personally. I've been clean from drugs since 1989. I never lived on the street, but you know, it could have happened very easily. My bottom was pretty deep. But I wasn't on the street begging either. I always managed to keep a job, for the most part. When I didn't, I used men (boyfriends) to get what I wanted. I always had a place to stay. I moved half way around the world to get clean, because I couldn't do it here. Turned out I couldn't do it in Hawaii either. I ended up getting clean in LA, believe it or not. :D
The charities I give to are the ones that help animals, mostly.
Like SG, I am not brilliant with money. I end up broke before my next paypacket is due...I run into crises and have no reserve to handle it. But, I have friends and family who help me and whom I help when the situation is reversed. I could probably make my life a lot easier by not dropping £1.40 into some homeless guy's bowl. Then again, I could make my life easier by not going for a pint with my mates, accepting that broadband is more than I can afford, or not buying Doctor Who audio plays...
I am not sensible with money. I can live with that. This is who I am. If I am so reluctant to curb my hedonism, which does for most of my earnings, why curb my empathy, which leads me sometimes to give to those who ask?
btw, for context, pocket change is worth a lot more in UK than in the US -the lowest note/bill is 5 pounds, which is getting towards $10. anything less than that is a coin -pocket change. and American salaries are higher than British ones.
tonight, there were 2 pizzas left over from lunch. i took them both with me intending to give one to the bum that works at the intersection of 6th and the Ben Frankiln Bridge. fucker wasn't on duty. it was snowing. i guess bums call in sick a lot.
the funny thing was that I was disappointed that I couldn't give him the Pizza.
homeless with internet eh? Wonder if he takes paypal too.:eyebrow:
He might go to the library. Aren't homeless people allowed to use the computer at the library?
I'll bet the "40" in "40dude" references a 40 oz.
And yes, apparently he does take PayPal...that's what it says right above the email addy.
That's the cleanest, healthiest looking, hungry homeless dude I've ever seen. His fingernails aren't even dirty.
That's the cleanest, healthiest looking, hungry homeless dude I've ever seen. His fingernails aren't even dirty.
I know. I thought it was Bruce asking for a handout.
heh
handjob maybe, but never a handout