I'm polyamorous and into the BDSM lifestyle as a switch and bottom.
I took limey's advice and started a separate thread for this...
So here goes. I've just recently become involved with the BDSM lifestyle. I know the very basics, and I have a Sir who is mentoring me a bit and to whom I might petition for a collar down the road (when his House stabilizes and my life does the same).
I'm also polyamorous. Right now, I only have a primary, but he has a secondary, and I'm looking for a secondary. No, before anyone asks, my primary is no longer the Aussie... that relationship is on its way out the door.
So, if anyone has questions/answers/comments/whatever, this is where to put them! I know Els has a working poly relationship; I figure with the broad range of the Cellar, there should (might?) be at least one or two other people into one or the other "alt" lifestyle. Make yourselves known!
And may I use you as a sounding board if I have questions or whatever? Please?
And may I use you as a sounding board if I have questions or whatever? Please?
[youtube]dZ9U2TRiJbo[/youtube]
Interesting. How extreme do you dare? Display? Subjugation? Pony girl? Pain? Electro? Hmm...
As I have mentioned here before, Selene tends sub, but it isn't really a full time lifestyle for her. Just a playtime option, for the most part. I don't really *get* BDSM on anything other than an intellectual level, so I'm really not good at it.
Strangely, I do get the *hardware*, though. We have a friend who is pretty active Dom, and he makes the most awesome floggers and such. Boys and their toys, huh?
Treas, I don't suppose a long distance secondary is gonna be of much use to you, huh? :p
Is it me or does Big Sarge know a little too much about this lifestyle?
Actually, "Big Sarge" would be a good name for a Dom...
Big Sarge, I have a past that prevents SOME things from happening, such as breath control, electro play, fireplay, and the like... I would like to train as a pony, but considering my Sir is a bit long-distance right now and I've yet to find an in into the community here, I don't see that happening right away. Display and subjugation, yes, if such things are negotiated beforehand. -shrugs- I'll do just about anything other than the aforementioned and piss/scat/vomit or bestiality. I am into edgeplay, though...
Els, you're only nine hours away, honey ;) Not that long distance. I'd say a long weekend vacation here and there.....
I would like to train as a pony, but considering my Sir is a bit long-distance right now and I've yet to find an in into the community here, I don't see that happening right away.....
And I doubt you will. That is a very small group.
It is, both very small and VERY exclusive. However, HM's ex-wife knows of a BDSM club in Nashville; he's supposed to call her and get an address for it sometime this afternoon. That will be a help, I think. And I could probably pretty easily find someone using my few leads back in Atlanta; I know my Sir knows Dom/mes up here. Just haven't asked yet. I'm still in a state of upheaval right now with the kidlet leaving for Hawaii in a few weeks and the new job and such. My head's not in the right place. Soon though... very soon... I'm feeling the need to be Topped.
The Mark by CPI might be what you are looking for. They provide lectures and instruction in the lifestyle. They also have a large play area.
http://www.themarkbycpi.com/
The Nashville Dungeon is more extreme and is by invitation only. Hope this helps
Big Sarge, you are now my BDSM god :D Thank you for the link, that's EXACTLY what I'm looking for. YOU ROCK!
thankyouthankyouthankyou
I'm sure you'll find an appropriate way to express your gratitude to him.
Atlanta has a few clubs as well.
Which context of edgeplay? Do you mean the high risk or knife play? Pretty extreme.
I have never had much luck with sex + knives
I'm sure you'll find an appropriate way to express your gratitude to him.
I think the proper way it works is: he'll show her how to appropriately to express her gratitude.
hahahah that's classic, MTP
Big Sarge, knife play. TheMercenary, my Sir and his wife/submissive are both members of 1763; I've never had the opportunity to go, but I WANT to, very very BADLY!!
Big Sarge, knife play. TheMercenary, my Sir and his wife/submissive are both members of 1763; I've never had the opportunity to go, but I WANT to, very very BADLY!!
1763 Dungeon Regulations and General Rules
...On-line gossiping and discussion of other members activities at 1763 which are meant to be private.
(rule four. Nothing like anonymity...)
So Treas, if you don't mind -- who abused you when you were young, and at what age.
The first rule of Fight Club is - you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is - you DO NOT talk about Fight Club.
I think the same goes for 1763.
Except for rules four and five, variations of the following might apply also:
Third rule of Fight Club, someone yells Stop!, goes limp, taps out, the fight is over. Fourth rule, only two guys to a fight. Fifth rule, one fight at a time, fellas. Sixth rule, no shirt, no shoes. Seventh rule, fights will go on as long as they have to. And the eighth and final rule, if this is your first night at Fight Club, you have to fight.
UT... no one, actually. I grew up in a very loving, if very sheltered, environment. My parents were not divorced; they've been married 39 years this past June. So I guess it's not a given that someone into these lifestyles was abused as a child. :)
Oh, and footx3 and HLJ... I have verbal permission from my Sir to mention that He is a member of the club, so long as neither lifestyle nor legal names are mentioned.
Good deal. So what is it that makes you seek out these extreme experiences? Is like "regular" sex not good enough?
"Regular" sex is perfectly wonderful, thank you. In fact, that's all my sex life is right now, and I'm certainly not complaining in the LEAST. But just as some guys like a change in scenery now and then in their sex lives, I like a change of flavor... and it just so happens that when I'm not in the mood for vanilla, I AM in the mood for moose tracks. But you might prefer strawberry or mint chocolate chip. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with your favored flavor, or with mine; we each just like different things. (Please excuse the ice cream analogy... I'm hungry lol)
Ma'am with all due respect, multiple-partner BDSM with knife play isn't just moose tracks vs vanilla. If not for you, for MOST people, it's not a simple choice. It often starts with a history of physical abuse by parents or other care-givers, or rape or some other trauma.
And if not you, think of the partners you're opening yourself up to. People who want to cut you and hurt you as a part of the sexual experience? That's not moose tracks, that's fucked up. Are these dangerous sex-lovers into condom use? Expect a minimum of herpes for the rest of your life. Minimum. It's not the worst thing in the world, but again, that is the minimum you will expect. These are the choices you're making.
So, what in your life has caused you to desire this highly dangerous, highly chaotic, highly intense behavior along with a history of bad choices in men? Why do you desperately want to be a victim? Why do you seek out men who want to victimize you? When presented with the idea of BDSM, you don't say "Ooh, it'd be kinky for you to tie me up a little and flog me" (i.e., moose tracks), you say "Ooh, utterly and completely dominate me with horrible pain and possibly permanent scars!"
I swear I am not being judgemental. I say these things because I like you and care about you, and I hope you are making good choices in your life. A previous Dwellar was actually raped with a knife and almost died. The consequences of your choices are really far-reaching if not deadly. This is not the stuff of healthy relationships. If you don't know why you're making these choices, I suggest you invest in counseling. It sounds nasty for me to even say that to you, I know, but it really isn't. It's not a negative thing, it's a positive thing and has helped literally millions of people.
It might be popular Shawnee, but Trea's posts have raised concerns all over the Cellar. I try my hardest not to point fingers as I am a supremely fucked up human being. But I do think it helps if abnomalies in someone's life are pointed out here. This might be the only place a poster documents it, and therefore the only place they can measue small-town conservatism against genuine concern.
Personally, Trea, I worry that you were posting about drinking spirits in the morning, especially with a child in the house. That you were engaged to a man you knew little about. That you came out of a marriage with a dominating and abusive man into sleeping with a much older man casually - with your baby daughter in the house. That you are actively seeking a BDSM lifestyle following an abusive relationship AGAIN with a baby girl in the house.
My (very conservative) advice to you would be to focus on your daughter and yourself for a good couple of years. Sex can wait. And you will still be attractive. And for the record - if it was a man posting my advice would be just the same - if not more vehement as I adore my Daddy and can't imagine my childhood without him.
maybe its just me being me, but i think the whole thing smacks of effort....and makes maric***o seem subtle by comparison.
Before I say anything else, let me first say thank you all for your concern. I appreciate that you are looking out for me, even though you don't know me from Adam outside the Cellar.
Now, I would like to address these concerns. First, Sundae Girl, because you raise some very valid points concerning my daughter being present. The drinking thing... yes. I do drink a little in the mornings if I'm not working. HOWEVER... and this is a big one... I do NOT have more than the equivalent of one beer if I am the only adult in the house with my daughter. Anything more than that happens only after she is asleep, or if Ted is present to watch her for me. The engagement to Mick... I will freely admit that was a VERY bad call on my part, and my only excuse is that it was a rebound reaction, something I KNOW better than to do. Regardless, that relationship has slowed WAY down, and honestly pretty much stopped. Next, Ted himself. Yes, he is a bit older than me. Yes, I'm living with him. No, sex did not start out casual, nor is it casual now. Do I ENJOY casual sex with older men? Yes. However, Ted and I do not have a casual relationship. I slept on the couch for a LONG time after I moved here, and I have my own cabin, my own bedroom, and my own bed, to which my daughter and I retire more frequently than I do to his bed. Finally, the BDSM lifestyle is not one that I am pursuing right now; this thread was started with the intent of information gathering and learning, nothing more. Does this help at all?
Now, Undertoad. I like you too, and I highly respect your opinion. And yes, I am in counseling already. And yes, the "dangerous sex-lovers" are into condom use. STRONGLY. Knife-play, in the hands of a trained Master, is not dangerous; the cuts inflicted are nothing more than one might receive from a paper-cut, and are treated immediately following play, with antibiotic ointments and bandages. Safe, sane, consensual is the rule with ANY BDSM play, and it is strictly adhered to, one might even say religiously adhered to. This is not me randomly walking up to someone and saying, "Slice and dice me". This is a carefully thought-out lifestyle choice for me. The "dangerous" play and pain is NOT what the lifestyle is about; that's the icing on the cake. It is the choice to submit one's will to another, to give control to someone who has EARNED it, not to any tom, dick, or harry on the streets. My Sir EARNED my respect and trust, and my submission, over a long period of time. People I have known for years vouched for him before I would even speak to him. I entered the relationship I had with my Sir very cautiously and with every intent at bolting at the first sign of threat... and it never happened. Sir never made a move until I was sure of Him and of what I wanted. So yes; from the outside this can seem like a stupid and dangerous way to live. But for me, from the inside and knowing how this decision was made and what it took to get to this point, I would not have it any other way.
Much as I share concern about some of the things Treas has posted, I think we're getting a little carried away here.
BDSM is something a lot of people are attracted to at varying levels. Some of those people have experienced abuse, some haven't. If both parties are aware and conscientious there is absolutely nothing dangerous about it. It's fantasy.
Personally, though I wouldn't necessarily pursue it, because the actual reality of submission is unappealing, at a fantasy level, dark is what turns me on. Dark and dangerous.
Unfortunately, one of the dangers of being attracted to darker characters and darker fantasies, is that you can be drawn to someone who isn't good for you.
What makes this problematic is that for many people who have those fantasies, there's an enormous amount of guilt and secrecy involved (after all, if people, even close to you, knew about that 'fucked up' desire you had, they may well reach some conclusions about you). If you add that to the fact a lot of people, especially women, find it hard to ask for/talk about their sexual desires, what you end up with is couples trying stuff out without discussing it. And that really can get dangerous.
Out in the open, with people of like mind who share complementary fantasies, that's a different matter.
Cutting is never safe... never. :headshake
Sorry Trea. I was in a pissy mood when I wrote that post and my genuine concern for you and your daughter was written in a very harsh way.
Thanks for a polite response.
Just know that we try to look after our own here, and sometimes we get a bit too personal. Well, I mean I got a bit too personal.
But if we/ I helped you take a step back and look at things it might not be too bad after all.
It is the choice to submit one's will to another, to give control to someone who has EARNED it, not to any tom, dick, or harry on the streets. My Sir EARNED my respect and trust, and my submission, over a long period of time.
Let me first say you are doing a very impressive job of taking everyone's concerns rationally and in the spirit they were intended (that is, not to offend but to help.) Have you considered how your desire for the above might be connected to the abusive husband you just left? It seems that, rather than recognizing how the traits you are attracted to inherently put you in a dangerous situation before, you are instead blaming the particular person--i.e., it's okay for someone to dominate you, just not in
that way, only in
this other way. Are you really sure at this point that you can tell the difference between the "good" dominators and the bad ones?
Do you think she can really answer that?
If she can't, that's kind of an answer in itself, don't you think?
Well yes but, when are we going to get to the real issue here? How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if in fact, a woodchuck could chuck wood?
Well I think it is great that Treas enjoys sex with older men. I wish more women did.
Clod, I think you raise a goodpoint. But...there is a vast difference between consensual dominance play and non-consensual dominance. I have experienced how badly that can go wrong when the lines are crossed.
What Trease is talking about (with her Sir, and the BDSM scene) is a very controlled form of play and fantasy. It may well be that she is attracted to particular kinds of men and that opens her up to potential dangers...I understand this, I personally am attracted to a little darkness and 'nice' doesn't tend to float my boat. There are several ways of dealing with this. One is to follow that attraction into relationships that can do you harm, another is to avoid such relationships entirely, and still another is to compartmentalise that particular aspect of your sexuality into a form of co-ordinated and controlled fantasy (not so different from playing a computer roleplay game), satisfying that particular desire.
I learned long ago that for me it's the mental space it puts me in that attracts me, not the reality of the experience. For others the reality of the experience confirms and feeds into that mental space. It hits you at more than just a sexual level, it's a full on fantasy experience, with roleplay, creativity and expression. In any roleplay, the fantasy is so much more intense and *thinks* immersive when it involves other people to bounce off (if you'll pardon the pun). It isn't a replacement for 'ordinary' sex, it's a different thing entirely, it hits in a different way and for different reasons and is performed with different goals in mind.
If you're pottering around the world playing out your fantasies without really realising that's what you're doing, that can lead you into dangerous sitatuions and draw you to genuinely dangerous people, without you realising what's going on (my experience). If you know and understand your desires and how that fantasy fits into the rest of your psyche then there is no need for it to unduly influence your choice of partner, or the rest of your sex life. Generally speaking, if someone is aware of their desires to the point that they are seeking out BDSM clubs and communities, then they are less likely to be drawn unknowing into danger.
One thing I find slightly disturbing about this discussion, and it is something that also came to my mind, is that there is an implicit assumption in much of this thread, that Trease's attraction to BDSM is the reason she was beaten and raped by her husband. We have to be very, very careful. The only person responsible for rape is the one committing it.
Clodfobble: You do raise a good point. However, I was "into" the D/s scene long before I was married, and long before I mixed S/m into it. I KNOW what "good" domination is... and I KNOW when it crosses the line into non-consent. The minute domination or sadism crosses that line, it becomes abuse. I am aware that the path I have chosen for my life puts me at risk of running into many dangerous (or just plain stupid) people. However, I have had enough experience and enough learning to know what to look for in a Dom/me. Unfortunately, there are those people out there who are so good at deception, they fool everyone around them, until they have the person they want under their control; then the gloves come off. That's basically what happened with my husband. He came across to everyone, even his family, as a great person, a wonderful man. But then, he got hold of me, and as soon as he had my trust and a child with me, which he expected would force me to stay with him, off came the gloves, and our play crossed the line into non-consensual abuse. Does this answer your question?
SG: apology accepted. No worries. And yes, speaking to you and everyone on the board is helping me sit down and think about what I do and why I do it... why I enjoy it, what my motivation is, and so on. So thank you :) You are free to get as personal as you wish, honey.
Razz: A woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck can chuck. It's that simple.
Big Sarge: My boyfriend says the same thing...
DanaC: thank you for hitting the nail on the head much more eloquently than I can. Me and the English, we don't get along so great...
xoB: You're right. Cutting is NEVER safe. However, when done properly, and followed up with the proper aftercare, it can be a lot less dangerous. Masters of this technique study long and hard, and practice for years on dead flesh before ever taking a blade of ANY kind to living flesh. My Sir, for instance, has not had that training, and I would not let him near me with a knife unless my life depended on it. My Sir back in New York, on the other hand, nearly a decade ago... he DID have the training. He knew what he was about. And trust me when I say it was exquisite.
With the right Sir, one whom the submissive trusts and knows and has a good relationship and rapport with, the submissive can enter a mental space called commonly "subspace". If any of you have ever tranced or been hypnotized... or been in subspace yourselves... you know something of what I'm talking about. It's peaceful... quiet... nothing exists except you and your Dom/me. The outside world ceases for you while you are in that space. All your daily worries and concerns are just... gone, for a while. It's amazing. Add to that the delightful aftercare the submissive receives after a good scene, and the delicious ache of muscles for the next day or two afterwards, and you may have the beginning of an inkling of why I identify as being part of the s/m crowd. The D/s crowd, on the other hand... I'll save that for another post, another day.
Subspace - The New Frontier
Actually I go there with my husband a lot.
-snickers- "The New Frontier". I love it!! Gotta tell Sir that one, next time I talk to Him. He'll get a kick out of it. Gotta love the geeky gamer Doms!
With the right [SIZE="1"][COLOR="Silver"]Sir,[/COLOR][/SIZE] person, one whom the [SIZE="1"][COLOR="silver"]submissive[/COLOR][/SIZE] other partner trusts and knows and has a good relationship and rapport with, [SIZE="1"][COLOR="silver"]the submissive[/COLOR][/SIZE] both can enter a mental space called commonly [SIZE="1"][COLOR="silver"]"subspace"[/COLOR] [/SIZE] your happy place. ~snip~ It's peaceful... quiet... nothing exists except you and your [SIZE="1"][COLOR="silver"]Dom/me[/COLOR][COLOR="silver"].[/COLOR][/SIZE] partner. The outside world ceases for you while you are in that space. All your daily worries and concerns are just... gone, for a while. It's amazing. Add to that the delightful after[SIZE="1"][COLOR="silver"]care[/COLOR][/SIZE] glow and feeling of closeness [SIZE="1"][COLOR="silver"]the submissive [/COLOR][/SIZE]each partner receives after a good [SIZE="1"][COLOR="silver"]scene[/COLOR][/SIZE], romp, and possibly the delicious ache of muscles for the next day or two afterwards, and you [SIZE="1"][COLOR="silver"]may have the beginning of an inkling of why I identify as being part of the Ss/m crowd.[/COLOR][/SIZE] get why I enjoy sex. ~snip~
Fixed your post to reflect how I feel about the kind of sex I like, the good 'old fashioned' kind.
You post helped me to understand a bit more what
you get from this type of play, thanks.
Well yes but, when are we going to get to the real issue here? How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if in fact, a woodchuck could chuck wood?
as much wood as a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood!
LabRat: Yes, "old fashioned" sex can cause a release very similar to subspace for a lot of people. But there are those of us who remain very much inside our own bodies during "regular" sex, and the only way to transcend that is through "alternative" sex or play. I very much enjoy regular, vanilla sex... as I've pointed out before, that's the only kind I'm getting right now and I'm content with that. I don't feel the need to be topped right now; don't feel the need for the release that s/m play and subspace give me. -shrugs- Everyone is different; everyone achieves their release different ways.
Edit: If this sounds a bit defensive, I apologize; I've been taking a lot of guff outside the Cellar recently for my lifestyle choices, and I'm getting a little tense about the need to constantly correct misconceptions or defend myself when people attack just because they don't agree with what I do. Y'all are different; you give a shit. It's the ones who call me slut and worse for living the way I do only because they don't agree with me that I'm fed up with.
But there are those of us who remain very much inside our own bodies during "regular" sex, and the only way to transcend that is through "alternative" sex or play.
Thankfully, I can (and have) reached that state through common sex, and you have found a way that works for you, through an alternative style. Win Win. I'll just be sure to stay out of your corner in the orgy thread. ;)
I get it now I think: I've heard this before: the sub is actually in control. This gives you a measure of control while being out of control.
What I still don't get is why it has to be SO utterly thoroughly dangerous and not just getting tied up and flogged.
-laughs- Fair enough, as long as you promise to come help me out in the food fight thread! I'm out of syrup!
My two cents is that if you don't want people to comment on how you have sex and what you like and dont like maybe you shouldnt post about it.
It has nothing to do with my posting here, Big Red. Like I said, the majority of the people posting here post because they care. It's more the people I come into contact with on a daily basis out in town or such.
Undertoad, it doesn't HAVE to be anything. I can reach subspace perfectly fine just by being tied up and flogged. However, part of the D/s lifestyle is about pushing boundaries. So yes, if a Dom/me or a sub wishes to push boundaries in a certain direction, things can get edgy (pun not intended). And when it comes down to it, knife play is one of the milder sides of dangerous when it comes to s/m play. Consider, if you will, breath control, fireplay, gunplay, extreme bondage, watersports, etc., all of which are hard restrictions for me, things I will never do.
It's the ones who call me slut and worse for living the way I do only because they don't agree with me that I'm fed up with.
that kind of thing doesn't turn you on then? you don't maybe get a little turned on when someone calls you a slut? just a little?
Trea, thanks again for responding with complete candour.
I just feel I need to ask... You had a Dom who was cutting you a decade ago in New York? I thought you were in your early twenties? My bad if you're not, but that seems really early to start experimenting - are you sure it didn't influence later decisions?
And no, I do not belive for one minute that you "deserved" an abusive partner. Consensual S&M and abuse are completely separate - consensual S&M would never satisfy an abuser or rapist and non-consensual abuse or rape would never be accepted by someone simply into D&S play. I'm just asking if you experienced this lifestyle before your sexual preferences were fully realised.
The only person responsible for rape is the one committing it.
The only one
legally responsible for sure, but to suggest women are never responsible for their own safety is way off.
Lumberjim: Not in that context, no. Play is completely separate.
SundaeGirl: "NEARLY" a decade, dear. I'm 25... I was 17 or 18 when I met that Sir. Yes, it was a bit early to start experimenting, but that's how I discovered what I did like... and it's taken that long for me to finally act on it and seek out what I liked, rather than being ashamed of it and hiding it.
Jinx: You hit the nail on the head. WE as women are responsible for our safety. RAPISTS are responsible for the rape.
Again, I thank ALL of you for your concern and input. This is definitely a more lively discussion than I had imagined it would be! :)
This is definitely a more lively discussion than I had imagined it would be! :)
What she said.
I admire you Treas for a) taking up my suggestion and b) replying to everyone's comments in the spirit in which they're made.
-blushes- Thank you, Limey... I figured you had a good suggestion so I ran with it. And I know how everyone on here is... I know who the troublemakers are (Lumberjim, I'm looking at YOU... sometimes), and I know who really cares. That makes it much easier to take comments in the right way and not be hurt or offended. And really, like I told SundaeGirl, this thread and the comments thereon has really made me sit back and think about why I enjoy this and why I've chosen this path... never a bad thing! I mean, I knew I enjoyed it, but the WHY til now has really been a nebulous thing, hard to verbalize. Not so much anymore! :D So I think I owe you a beer for the suggestion, Limey. Let me know when you're in the area!
Yeah yeah yeah, but where the hell are the pictures? :D
-grins- I have SAFE for work pics uploaded on my computer... but no NSFW. Sorry, xoB. Unless you wanna come take 'em yourself? lol
I'm into the newest fetish. No sex at all with anyone in any way. I'm digging it. :) It's awesome. Anyone have advice on how not to do it, even with one's self?
It's awesome.
Step on my cubes!
--Stewie Griffin
How not to do it with yourself: Handcuff yourself to the bed. Give your infant child the key.
that is all. Oh, hope you don't need to eat or use the bathroom. Ever.
Good luck with that, Cic ;)
I'm into the newest fetish. No sex at all with anyone in any way. I'm digging it. :) It's awesome. Anyone have advice on how not to do it, even with one's self?
It's awesome.
DUCT TAPE YOUR BUTT CHEEKS TOGETHER!
Superglue. -nods- That stuff NEVER wears off.
DUCT TAPE YOUR BUTT CHEEKS TOGETHER!
How about I duct tape your cheeks together? I'll never think about sex again!! Bwuahahahaaaa! :D
Superglue. -nods- That stuff NEVER wears off.
Oh yes it does. I know this after the time I superglued my mouth shut.
Yes yes, I'm sure some of you find that thought incredibly amusing, and extremely tantalising. Just move along. There's nothing here to see now.
I superglued my fingers together.
I cut them apart.
It didn't hurt all that much.
Tip: if you don't really mean it, use lots of glue. Give you more non-flesh to cut.
Ali... STORY!!! Please? -begs prettily-
SG... STORY!!! Please? -begs prettily-
Not a lot to tell really.
I couldn't get the lid off so decided to use my teeth. Stupid, but there you go. The result is in my post above. :)
I think mine was something similar.
It was really the finger and thumb on my left hand. I was holding something together while I glued it I think. All I really remember was wondering if I should go to the local DIY place and ask for something to unbond them, or poke at it with various sharp obejects. I chose the latter and it worked out surprisingly well.
Much as I share concern about some of the things Treas has posted, I think we're getting a little carried away here.
BDSM is something a lot of people are attracted to at varying levels. Some of those people have experienced abuse, some haven't. If both parties are aware and conscientious there is absolutely nothing dangerous about it. It's fantasy.
Personally, though I wouldn't necessarily pursue it, because the actual reality of submission is unappealing, at a fantasy level, dark is what turns me on. Dark and dangerous.
Unfortunately, one of the dangers of being attracted to darker characters and darker fantasies, is that you can be drawn to someone who isn't good for you.
What makes this problematic is that for many people who have those fantasies, there's an enormous amount of guilt and secrecy involved (after all, if people, even close to you, knew about that 'fucked up' desire you had, they may well reach some conclusions about you). If you add that to the fact a lot of people, especially women, find it hard to ask for/talk about their sexual desires, what you end up with is couples trying stuff out without discussing it. And that really can get dangerous.
Out in the open, with people of like mind who share complementary fantasies, that's a different matter.
Well stated.
Clod, I think you raise a goodpoint. But...there is a vast difference between consensual dominance play and non-consensual dominance. I have experienced how badly that can go wrong when the lines are crossed.
What Trease is talking about (with her Sir, and the BDSM scene) is a very controlled form of play and fantasy. It may well be that she is attracted to particular kinds of men and that opens her up to potential dangers...I understand this, I personally am attracted to a little darkness and 'nice' doesn't tend to float my boat. There are several ways of dealing with this. One is to follow that attraction into relationships that can do you harm, another is to avoid such relationships entirely, and still another is to compartmentalise that particular aspect of your sexuality into a form of co-ordinated and controlled fantasy (not so different from playing a computer roleplay game), satisfying that particular desire.
I learned long ago that for me it's the mental space it puts me in that attracts me, not the reality of the experience. For others the reality of the experience confirms and feeds into that mental space. It hits you at more than just a sexual level, it's a full on fantasy experience, with roleplay, creativity and expression. In any roleplay, the fantasy is so much more intense and *thinks* immersive when it involves other people to bounce off (if you'll pardon the pun). It isn't a replacement for 'ordinary' sex, it's a different thing entirely, it hits in a different way and for different reasons and is performed with different goals in mind.
If you're pottering around the world playing out your fantasies without really realising that's what you're doing, that can lead you into dangerous sitatuions and draw you to genuinely dangerous people, without you realising what's going on (my experience). If you know and understand your desires and how that fantasy fits into the rest of your psyche then there is no need for it to unduly influence your choice of partner, or the rest of your sex life. Generally speaking, if someone is aware of their desires to the point that they are seeking out BDSM clubs and communities, then they are less likely to be drawn unknowing into danger.
One thing I find slightly disturbing about this discussion, and it is something that also came to my mind, is that there is an implicit assumption in much of this thread, that Trease's attraction to BDSM is the reason she was beaten and raped by her husband. We have to be very, very careful. The only person responsible for rape is the one committing it.
two times.
Who was assuming that? I would never assume something so shitty. Not me....but who? Maybe I'm not reading back far enough.
Well, I am not criticizing or anything, but I just don't get it. In my world, you get the kids to bed, shut the door, and have sex real quiet-like. Sometimes you get to the prize, sometimes not, but oh well, you gotta get up early the next morning anyhow, yawn. It's like you're speaking another language, and not even an earth language at that. :o I'm so boring. :)
I'm stunned that no one has asked me yet.
ME! The resident perv and kinky old man.
I've been part of the D/s scene for over twenty years, at all levels. I've hobnobbed with the major players, minor ones and even the beginners. I've tried about everything I intend to (there ARE limits, even for me) and witnessed many things that squick me out.
I understand exactly what Treas is saying, even if it's not perfectly expressed. Her head seems to be screwed on straight and she has a healthy outlook on her fantasies. As long as they don't dominate her everyday existence, she will likely enjoy her experiences.
The dichotomy of power exchange is very difficult to articulate. The bottom has the power because s/he holds the ultimate veto and the Top is honor-bound to honor it. The Top holds the power because the bottom grants it, and can withdraw it at any time.
The bottom experiences pleasure by acting out his/her fantasy in a safe way. The Top gets his/her pleasure by being granted the power and allows the Top to act out a nice fantasy too. Sometimes that fantasy allows the bottom to pleasure the Top directly, but not always.
D/s is not the be all and end all of sex, much as ground beef and white bread are not the epitome of food. Sure, they are good and yummy and all, but they are enhanced by the addition of condiments and spices, no? D/s is a sexual "spice". I still enjoy regular sex, but once in a while it's fun to play and enjoy something different.
There are countless books and studies out there that attempt to define and pigeonhole perverts (I use the term in a good way) but none really hit the mark. Only those who have a positive experience of some flavor of D/s really understand.
And more of you have experimented than realize it!
A little slap and tickle in the bedroom? Love bites? Ever had him hold your hands over your head while you engage in intercourse? Then you've tried D/s. Ever done role-playing? Worn a costume of some kind in the bedroom? Even a blindfold? Yep! You too. Maybe you have whispered dirty words in your lovers' ear before or during the act. Still D/s. True, these things do not quite rise to the stratospheric levels of bullwhips, needles, torches, knives (see, I got them in somewhere!) and more extreme forms of play, but still they fall into that category.
Bet you didn't realize what you were doing, did you?
I once gave nearly the same speech on Philly After Midnight a few years ago. I still don't think I managed to communicate the nuances to the interviewer or the viewers. Maybe I should have used makeup. I did look a little washed-out and paler than usual. Oh well, too late now.
I entertain questions.
Brian
I do drink a little in the mornings if I'm not working. HOWEVER... and this is a big one... I do NOT have more than the equivalent of one beer if I am the only adult in the house with my daughter. Anything more than that happens only after she is asleep, or if Ted is present to watch her for me.
Trea, I'm sure it was just a wording error, but just in case... you still need a sober adult present if you drink once she's asleep. What if she wakes with a dangerously high fever requiring medication or hospitalization? Or falls out of bed and gashes her head? Or less dramatically, wakes with a bad dream and can't rouse you.
What monster said - its just parenting 001!
What? You're not allowed to put your feet up and relax, with an adult beverage, while they sleep, until they're 18? Then there's a shitload of bad parents in this country... every night. :eyebrow:
I agree Bruce - there are a shitload of bad parents in this country... every night. HYPOTHETICALLY - I don't think it is wise, nor ok for a single parent being the only responsible adult in the house to get drunk to the point of passing out. :headshake
She said one beer. :eyebrow:
Daryl and I often share a bottle of wine when the kids have gone to bed. Actually, it usually starts at dinner and then we polish it off.
Technically that'd put both of us over the limit if we were to drive, but either one of us could certainly dial 000 if it were an emergency.
She said one beer. :eyebrow:
No she said "Anything more than that happens only after she is asleep, or if Ted is present to watch her for me."
Which is why I said
HYPOTHETICALLY - I was specifically NOT talking about her.
Bah, ya can't hide your loathing diatribe behind a "HYPOTHETICALLY", ya dogooder. :haha:
What? You're not allowed to put your feet up and relax, with an adult beverage, while they sleep, until they're 18? Then there's a shitload of bad parents in this country... every night. :eyebrow:
of course you are. but when they're so little they can't tell you what's wrong and they can't physically come to you and and and.... AND YOU"RE A SINGLE PARENT and they don't have older sibs......... it is not OK to get smashed alone once your baby is asleep. that's why it's so damned hard to be a single parent. I couldn't do it, that's for sure. i guess this stands out for me because I find it pretty irritating when beest is out of town to have to keep it to drivable levels just in case -and when you're the only parent and can't call in reinforcements, somehow you want that beer at the end of the day a little more....
But trea was writing about being responsible in this area and has mentioned that she has a tough time getting stuff into words, so i'm pretty sure this discussion is entirely unnecessary anyway.
Bah, ya can't hide your loathing diatribe behind a "HYPOTHETICALLY", ya dogooder. :haha:
Ahhh but my children are much older now and I have already sacrificed PLENTY. As one with an alcoholic drug abusing ex, I know all too well what the fuck goes on and what HAS to be done and what sacrifices need be made. I made them and I don't regret one single second of any of it.
either one of us could certainly dial 000 if it were an emergency.
the buggers here make you find two different buttons on the phone, though :(
:lol:
The thing is there are two of you.... if one of you overdoes it and passes out, there's back-up. And a bottle of wine between you over the course of an evening is not going to shove you far over "the limit". When he's away, do you do the bottle by yourself (or rather, did you when the kids were tiny?)
There were lots of nights after my Mum died when I drank myself into a stupor then took pills and passed out. I know it was the wrong thing to do now, but at the time it was pretty hard not to. Many nights I felt like I would have been completely happy to never wake up again. It's probably only thanks to the kids that I never quite took that step right over the edge.
Maybe it sounds pathetic, but I couldn't cope when she was gone, and she was my back up as a single parent...so I felt like I had none.
Anyway, I think people who're in these situations need support not judgement. I was lucky. Just plain lucky that the above mentioned behaviours, and a number of other risky behaviours didn't end in tragedy. I think it's why I have tried in the past to help out when I have felt mothers or parents weren't coping. Sometimes it helps. Other times not, but I'll keep on doing it for the sake of the kids, and in the hope that the parent/s see that they've got more to live for than they think.
WOW, I leave for two days and THIS is what happens?! BrianR... THANK you for expressing me better than I can do it myself. And Monster: You were right. Wording error. I should have said after she's asleep AND Ted is there to watch her for me. Just in case. Thanks for the catch!
trease, sounds like you're doing an awesome job in a tough situ and making sure you don't lose sight of your own needs. good on ya.
-blushes- Thank you, Monster... that you should say so means a lot to me. It's been a bit of an uphill fight to get to a place where I am stable enough (mentally as well as with my living situation and such) that I can take care of my child AND satisfy my own baser cravings. It's good to hear an encouraging word now and then :)
Wow, interesting thread, good job starting it Trease and very brave for taking all the hits/comments/support, etc!
With children you focus on them so much you tend to forget yourself. By the time you remember yourself you are cleaning the cat box at 3am crying how you can't handle one more things shit as 'the boy' is asking to get a dog.
I've seen more than one family fall into chaos because the parents are so wrapped up in the children they forget to take care of themselves both as individuals and as a couple. From the day I found out I was pregnant, I swore I would never let that happen; I've tried very hard to balance my own needs with those of my little girl. Granted, I'm not perfect, and I've made mistakes, but I think all in all we're both pretty contented girls, with all our needs provided for and most of our wants supplied as well... Especially her, the cute little gremlin!!
Excellent! Great attitude. Keep up the good work. I know its not easy by any stretch.
That reminds me of me and my dog.
That's all the stuff I tell myself when I get separation anxiety when I go to work. I tell myself that I am addressing my needs and her needs doing it, and ultimately it is the best thing to do. When in all actuality I shouldn't have to be having that conversation with myself at all. It's best just not to have the separation anxiety in the first place. Usually the separation anxiety is the dog having it, not the owner.
-grins- Now if only separation anxiety could be turned off via a simple little switch... leaving Kidlet with the babysitter would be SOOOOO much easier.
-stretches and sighs- Well, life is getting INTERESTING! Been teaching Ted some simple rope ties... turns out he may be something of a closet rope Dom. FUN STUFF!! Especially since there's exposed rafters in the house. Now... once my knee heals we'll see how he does with a bit more challenging bondage... and perhaps I'll get to tie him up once or twice. Anyone know a good place in Central TN to buy riding crops? (for me, not him.... his pain tolerance is remarkably low)
Tack shop???? Talk about pain....
You can find them at TSC or equine supply stories. There are several online sites where you can find quality crops designed for humans. They aren't as likely to cause serious damage.
Exposed beams? Have you considered a bondage swing. Oh, and when are you going to post some photos of your activities??
Merc, Big Sarge... have I mentioned we live in the middle of nowhere? I'll pay as much in gas money driving to a tack shop or TSC as I would ordering them online. Blah. I should get his ex to send me one of her extras...
SD, you evil, evil man. Don't give me ideas!! ;)
Oh, and Big Sarge... Bondage swing is a LOVELY idea, but we don't really have room for it. Unfortunately. And photos... -sighs- Well, you're the fifth person who's asked for pics, so I guess I HAVE to now, huh? All right, all right, I'll get on it.
Treas - This crops designed for humans can be bought for less than $20 online. I'm also including a photo of a bondage swing with spreader bar that is easy to attach to an exposed beam. Quick and easy set up & take down
Almost forgot, they also make vibrating crops that can give both pleasure or pain
Ah, thank you, Big Sarge :-) Once again, you have been most helpful. I think I owe you dinner... unless you had another idea in mind? ;)
Hmmm? You don't know the thoughts racing through my mind
Yay for the possibility of a closed quad... and barring that, a closed triad with my primary on the outside (as per his choice). Plus the possibility of a Domme taking me under Her wing. My life is looking up on the relationship side!