obama nation
we did it
yes we did
ba ROCK obama
congratulations sir, i support you and the United States of America
History was made and we all got to see it happen! :)
:::SUSTAINED STANDING OVATION:::
*shakes head stunned*
Bloody hell guys. You did it again. You changed the world.
*applauds*
Classy speech by McCain, both men should be applauded.
*nods* I wish his supporters hadnt booed though. They sjould have respected his grace
Very classy performance by McCain. He was very gracious. **THAT** is the McCain that might have won the election.
The booing was low f*ckin class. Embarrassing.
I think he will continue to be an asset to the country in the Senate.
I was impressed by McCain's speech, too. It's a crying shame that that voice was stifled throughout his campaign. He would have been better off without his party.
Thank you America. If Obama didn't win I was prepared to ask for another extension to my over-seas work assignment.
Even though the country is a mess, and will likely be a mess, I'm actually willing to head home.
Sorrow.
The Democrats better win the war better than the Republicans. And their chance of doing it? Hah.
Very classy performance by McCain. He was very gracious. **THAT** is the McCain that might have won the election.
The booing was low f*ckin class. Embarrassing.
I think he will continue to be an asset to the country in the Senate.
Agreed! Well THAT and a different choice for a running mate. ;)
*nods*
I went from liking McCain and thinking him a good choice for president (despite that I disagree with his politics) to thinking he would be a poor president, over the course of the campaign. Not because of his politics, but because of his responses and character. That's not to say I think he has a weak character, or a bad character, but I don't think he is presidential material, simply because of how fazed he was when crisis struck, and how little control he seemed able to exert over his campaign.
Had he won, he'd have owed his position entirely to those who orchestrated his campaign and would not have been 'free' politically. His willingness to let them orchestrate it spoke volumes.
I think he's a very good man. A brave man, and a man who genuinely believes in public service. Being brilliant in the field and brave in battle, and being able to see, predict, respond to the wider political and economic situation are two different things.
I wouldn't mind seeing McCain be the head of a NEW political party... break away from the loony bins that have taken control of the Republican party. Take all the moderates and the centrists and get 2nd party that's more interested in getting real work done, as opposed to mindless prattling.
If I remember correctly, I heard the college student vote was 68% for Obama.
They must have seen your video.
Comrade Barack will be redistributing your wealth as I type this. ;)
What's needed is some kind of rapprochement I think. The polarisation of the last decade or so has done such harm and caused such unhappiness and cultural unease, it is time for that to change. I hope that this can be done.
Of course, the radical in me wuold love to see a bold program righting the wrongs (as I perceive them) and fixing the problems fast. But...Obama needs to walk a careful line. This vote is a mandate for change. Therefore he owes it to his electorate to deliver change. But, he also has to bring about healing, and that won't happen if he alienates those who are uneasy with radical reform.
Quite the celebration going on Kenya too. I think we suddenly have a 51st state.
Sorrow.
The Democrats better win the war better than the Republicans. And their chance of doing it? Hah.
Hey there, wrinkled white haired war obsessed dude! Chill out! [/paris hilton]
I see you're upset. You shouldn't be worried though. Despite your belief that their chances of doing it better are very small, consider this uplifting thought. It is impossible that they could win the war worse.
It will be interesting to see how this affects our international relations.
What's needed is some kind of rapprochement I think. The polarisation of the last decade or so has done such harm and caused such unhappiness and cultural unease, it is time for that to change. I hope that this can be done.
Of course, the radical in me wuold love to see a bold program righting the wrongs (as I perceive them) and fixing the problems fast. But...Obama needs to walk a careful line. This vote is a mandate for change. Therefore he owes it to his electorate to deliver change. But, he also has to bring about healing, and that won't happen if he alienates those who are uneasy with radical reform.
From my
blog yesterday:
I think that Sen. Obama is a smart man who will surround himself with smart people. I think that he will also work with Republicans while pushing a more liberal agenda--not a socialist one, not even a liberal one per se. I do worry that he might be setting the bar too high, though I've also seen him try to temper expectations.While we're at it, what, precisely is "Republican" about the way the war's being won now?
It will be interesting to see how this affects our international relations.
I think it'll make your relations with Australians pretty good.
Quite the celebration going on Kenya too. I think we suddenly have a 51st state.
According to Obama, that would be #58.
You do realize that the thread title sounds an awful lot like "abomination?"
:rolleyes: Yes, that's the joke.
You do realize that the thread title sounds an awful lot like "abomination?"
http://www.amazon.com/Obama-Nation-Leftist-Politics-Personality/dp/1416598065True, V, true, and thank you for that good thought. But the Republicans actually try and win wars these days. Can that be said of the Democrats in this time?
I don't know how to describe my feelings - I know we still have a very tough road to walk to recover as a nation, but I feel hope that it can be accomplished now. As long as everyone who voted for him will continue their enthusiasm and efforts we can all have hope.
McCain gave a good concession speech but I'm glad there is no chance of Palin in the oval office.
Oh, duh, I did have the nagging suspicion I was stating the obvious.
It's late. What can I say.
And that's W's fault too. :p
I just watched his speech. Wow.
That man can speak.
What a speech.
"Rosa sat so Martin could walk. Martin walked so Barack could run. Barack ran so our children could fly."
-not sure the author
the guy is simply -- presidential. he has the potential to be a great president.
I haven't been as excited at anything political since Nixon resigned.
"Rosa sat so Martin could walk. Martin walked so Barack could run. Barack ran so our children could fly."
-not sure the author
Whoever wrote it knows how to turn a phrase.
this was funny :)
I actually had tears pricking the backs of my eyes listening to that speech.
the guy is simply -- presidential.
Yeah, he'd be perfect...
if he wasn't...
a...
you know...
one of them...
well I'll say it...
a damn...
lawyer. ;)
You know what makes me irritated? All the people out there saying they are going to leave the United States now that Barack Obama is president.
Seriously? Then gtfo, now.
I'm leaving the US now that Barack has been elected president.
I'm going to Mexico.
But not until Thanksgiving.
And again at Xmas.
You know what makes me irritated? All the people out there saying they are going to leave the United States now that Barack Obama is president.
Seriously? Then gtfo, now.
Absolutely! Because of course nobody said they'd leave the country if McCain was elected.
"If she wins, I'm done. I can't do that for four years. And by 'I'm done,' I mean I'm leaving Earth." -- Tina Fey
"If McCain is elected and America staggers on further towards the abyss, then we will leave the country. That is not a problem for us.” --Seal
Others who have threatened: Michael Stipe, Stephen Baldwin, Susan Sarandon, Oliver Stone.
What great Patriots!
I wonder how they'll feel about having their wealth "redistributed?"
Yes they are, they'd do us a great service by leaving.
I'm glad that Obama has won the election. I voted for him. But it makes me a little nervous having one party with majority in the Senate and House of Representatives and the presidency.
Hey! Did you all hear? We're getting a new presidential puppy too! Whoohoo!
:jig:
Aww, you guys rock.
You have actually just elected as president a black guy whose middle name is the name of a guy you just went to war against. That is pretty damn broadminded of you. Can you imagine Harry Adolf Truman getting far?
It is an easy game to play, to look at America and see what is wrong, but right now it is hard to look at America and miss what is right.
Big kiss to all y'all.
I think Mr. Obama is correct.
That was the best campaign in the history of US politics.
He and his team deserve it.
Big congrats to Mr Obama. :thumb:
It's a big win. No razors edge victory with endless court battles and recounts.
He's a very charismatic man and I'm sure that he'll do well to represent the US.
President O certainly has polar opposite views than I do on nearly every hot political issue but the decision has been made.
Change is surely coming our way. Change is good, right?
Now, where did I put my airline ticket? :smack:
So, slang--do you consider yourself unpatriotic for wanting to leave? ;)
I've wanted to "visit for extended periods of time" for several years now. Even with an R in office, they're not conservative enough for me personally.
I know what's coming. Every waking moment issues that are completely opposite of my longfelt point of view will be not just out in the open but thrust into the faces of people like me that are not supporters.
It's not the goal of the opposition for us to accept them as equals, it's to punish us for what they consider injustices of the past. No thanks. There are productive things to keep me busy rather than being pissed off like many of the anti-bush people for the past 6 years.
Who knows? We may see a widespread support of a different sort of "community organizing" here in the future. In that case, my presence here may be more than expected.
Many people believe that there is a catastrophy in the near future whoever the pres is anyway. That seems pretty reasonable for me to imagine as we are trapped between lowering the Fed interest rates and tanking the dollar versus raising interest rates and tanking the economy. Either case seems like a party not worth attending.
Regardless of the current climate, I'll be for 2A, less taxes, more personal responsibility, less debt, less gov't.
Those values are trending downward at the moment. Life's a bitch.
Just be cautious of what you wish for. :)
I feel all youse Republican's pain. I've had to live for eight years with a President I despised. I know how you feel.
That said, I have faith in Obama, I truly do and he's the first politician (besides Dana, I mean) to give me hope since 1964. He's a good, honorable man who will put an end to the USA's being an international laughingstock: no bushisms thus far.
and my sincerest condolences for youse making over 200,000/year. There must be many, many of you.
Slang, it sounds a lot like you want to live on a compound, if you don't already...and you really should be cautious of what you wish for.
For the first time in my life the guy I voted for has been elected.
[SIZE="6"]Yes we can.[/SIZE]
Slang, it sounds a lot like you want to live on a compound, if you don't already...and you really should be cautious of what you wish for.
For all practical purposes I live on a modest street in Manila. Life is much simpler there for sure.
It's not a compound. No turrets, no armor. Not a bad place to be in a time of social breakdown but that's not the design.
Life there is surely at a lower standard of living but there's much less conflict between people there and they are much more polite and respectful than many of the people that I run into here in the US.
As for what I wish for......fair enough. I'll consider it very carefully. :)
...and you really should be cautious of what you wish for.
That should have been the mantra of the Demoncratic Party.
Merc, sorry for your loss. I hope you can overcome your anger. It did me absolutely no good to be pissed off for these past 8 years.
Now:
YAY!
Merc, sorry for your loss. I hope you can overcome your anger. It did me absolutely no good to be pissed off for these past 8 years.
Now:
YAY!
Not really a loss for me, I didn't vote for either one of them. The pain is about to start for many. I will be fine.
glad to hear it, merc. You're a survivor.
Wow.
McCain's speech was very gracious. He showed the class and inner strength that had to come into play when he sacrificed so much for our country. Bravo on him.
Obama's speech...I didn't expect anything less, but was still in awe.
People who don't support Obama like to poke at the fact that people really came out for him, people who maybe never voted, people who had become so apathetic due to the status quo of many years...yet isn't that what our country needed? We needed to pull together, to care about something, to feel a fresh wind in our faces. You can say, tongue in cheek, that he is the Messiah. He is not quite that. He is a man, a good man, a smart man, and a visionary. Can it hurt us to have as our leader a man with charisma and, for want of a better phrase "people skills?"
I have faith in this guy. I am very happy today.
I have faith in our country and a sense of relief the election is over. But I have always been a pessimist. So I will keep my microscope handy and watch for the payoffs. Obama has made a lot of promises that I do not believe he can deliver on and it is among those promises that got him elected.
Now all we can do is wait and see, I suppose.
And I can stop yelling at you. ;)
Obama has made a lot of promises that I do not believe he can deliver on and it is among those promises that got him elected.
Dubya said we'd be outta Iraq in like a year or something... maybe even a few months.
This post was to ask where to find the speeches, but I've found them now!
After tearing up at the concession and acceptance speeches last night....Grant Park was simply amazing...I have a great sense of relief. Obama is a moderate. He's smart, bold, persuasive and creative, but also measured and cautious. I like our chances.
Checking the pulse of the cellar was interesting. When Obama started to capture the interest of staunch independent thinkers here, I grew very hopeful. Toad! Griff! To have a president that can unite and help move us out of the petty crap to take on the tough stuff...yow!
For everyone who didn't get to see the President Elect's speech.
[youtube]Jll5baCAaQU[/youtube]
The man can speak, everyone needs to accept that at the very least.
Dubya said we'd be outta Iraq in like a year or something... maybe even a few months.
Yea but he didn't know wtf he was talking about so he gets a pass.
an eight year pass. In which people died.
Nice gig if you can get it.
an eight year pass. In which people died.
Nice gig if you can get it.
That is not what I said. Don't read into it.
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
(posted on reading page one, now I see I'm late on the bandwagon)
WOW! Powerful speech. He did a great job. That is the first time I got to hear the whole thing. Who ever wrote that did a historically good job.
*nods*
I watched it again on youtube today. He said exactly what America and the world have been waiting to hear I think; unity, hope and strength.
Everyone's talking about it here. I cannot tell you how much this elevates your nation in our eyes. I had my ICQ running whilst I was studying last night, with the TV on as well. A good friend and ex-neighbour of mine was messaging me, just awestruck that you'd done it. The nervousness of the first polls closing, and the ardent hope was absolutely shared by people all over the world. My friend, a northern lad not much given to sentimentality, told me he had tears streaming down his face as we realised it was going to be an Obama victory on the night.
As a sidebar to this: the subject of my research last night was an 18th century journal, written by the wife of a naval officer who accompanied him on his travels. In one entry she describes them going aboard a slave carrying ship. There had been an outbreak of disease, with the captain, some crew and slaves affected. In order to stop the spread of the disease, the sick slaves were thrown overboard.
I read her description (she describes it as an inhuman act) of this event, one hour before I saw the son of a black man, married to a descendant of both slaves and slave owners, address the American nation, and the world, as President Elect of the USA.
Bloody hell. Just bloody hell.
Very classy performance by McCain. He was very gracious. **THAT** is the McCain that might have won the election.
The booing was low f*ckin class. Embarrassing.
I think he will continue to be an asset to the country in the Senate.
I think that's the footnote to his campaign, McCain, a standup guy, the GOP, not so much.
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
I think this goes for Obama too, there's the worst of times coming up in the next 1 -2 years, and he just volunteered to preside over it.
married to a descendant of both slaves and slave owners
is this accurate?
It's how he described his wife in his acceptance speech. he said she has both slaves and slave owners in her ancestry. Unless I have misheard that.
It's how he described his wife in his acceptance speech. he said she has both slaves and slave owners in her ancestry. Unless I have misheard that.
All American Blacks whose ancestry in America goes back to the days of slavery are presumed to have the blood of both a mammy and a massa or massa's boy in their genetic mix somewhere. Of course, there's no documentation. Or maybe she took one of those National Geographic sponsored DNA screenings to see how much of herself she should be proud of and how much she should revile.
Or maybe she took one of those National Geographic sponsored DNA screenings to see how much of herself she should be proud of and how much she should revile
You make a huge assumption about how she'd view those parts of her ancestry that were slave owners. I have within me the blood of a conquered people and the blood of their conquerors. I have English, Indian, South-African (and most likely African) ancestry (there's some Irish and Jewish in there too). I would
love to know more details of that, and I would not revile those who lived under different rules and a different cultural view of the world.
I would not revile those who lived under different rules and a different cultural view of the world.
<devil's>But if they're no better (and no worse) than any other peoples, why bother knowing? What difference would it make?</advocate>
Or maybe she took one of those National Geographic sponsored DNA screenings to see how much of herself she should be proud of and how much she should revile.
Hmm. The multiple broadcasts that fascinated me on PBS, using dna plus historical records to trace families of black Americans were quite moving and hardly the racist affair you flippantly describe. I was struck by how intertwined and complicated the shared history, and how the connections served to challenge simplistic notions of race.
I would love to have my DNA traced. Nothing to do with hating what has happened in the past. People are people are people. I doubt there's been a society that doesn't have murder and mayhem somewhere in its history.
I have Irish blood in my veins, should I cut myself to let some of the English blood out because of the Potato Famine? If I found I had Norman blood, should I rail against the Conquest?
If I found I had Norman blood, should I rail against the Conquest?
It WOULD be interesting if you did...but, nah. Don't do it. :)
Rail against the Conquest
I smell a band name....
On a more serious note, what does it mean to have this blood or that blood in your veins? Aside from certain genetic diseases or predispositions, what is the importance?
I am genetically Indian, brown skin and all, raised in the vast maw that is American culture. Which is more important? What claim should my Indian heritage have? If the answer is "none", then why should anyone care about things that may or may not exist in their own pedigree?
On a more serious note, what does it mean to have this blood or that blood in your veins? Aside from certain genetic diseases or predispositions, what is the importance?
I am genetically Indian, brown skin and all, raised in the vast maw that is American culture. Which is more important? What claim should my Indian heritage have? If the answer is "none", then why should anyone care about things that may or may not exist in their own pedigree?
Because where we are from, is the very story of our existence. What does it matter? Look at the story it tells us. That's worth knowing. No less than it is worth knowing the thoughts and actions of great statesmen.
Agreed! Well THAT and a different choice for a running mate. ;)
I have to agree as well.
Because where we are from, is the very story of our existence. What does it matter? Look at the story it tells us. That's worth knowing. No less than it is worth knowing the thoughts and actions of great statesmen.
Where we are from is where we were born, grew, were educated, shared, and played with as children. Where we are from has little to do with what preceded our existence.
Yes, genetics determines health, skin color, and ancestry. But these are so important and significant only to the most biased - who must make judgments based primarily on first impressions. Judging one based upon first impressions is also called racism.
Those genetic factors do contribute. But by far, we are mostly from where we came from which means mostly what occurs after birth.
Only reason that genetics are important: too many people are so racist as to judge only based upon first impressions. Those who judge us based upon who we are need no genetic information to know. Judgments based significantly on genetic information is just another way of judging only based upon first impressions - a concept we often call racism and a major source of unjustified hate.
Yes, if you live in a world where being a rag head, spic, wop, or gook means you cannot be trusted, then you live in a world of racists. Then genetics are imperative to who you are.
Where we are from is where we were born, grew, were educated, shared, and played with as children. Where we are from has little to do with what preceded our existence.
You do know you are talking to an historian right?
I think it's important to know who your ancestors are - so you get their stuff when they die.
You do know you are talking to an historian right?
We discussed this almost a decade ago. History is not unique to any one race (and definitively not unique to genetics). Greek history is the history of all mankind. Chinese history is the history of all mankind. We all inherit our common history.
What makes a person is not the history of his ancestors. What makes a person is how he learns from history of all previous peoples. But what more makes a person (assuming the bias called first impression or racism is universally condemned) are what he learns from his childhood, neighborhoods, education, and social experiences.
Ever meet a Korean girl who speaks with a heavy southern accent?
Genetics only most significant to a person when our peers are racist - also known as judgments based upon first impressions.
Apparently you have a point. Obviously, I am having difficulty grasping what that point is.
You do know you are talking to an historian right?
an historian> does that have something to do with your uterus?
Where we are from is where we were born, grew, were educated, shared, and played with as children. Where we are from has little to do with what preceded our existence.
Yes, genetics determines health, skin color, and ancestry. But these are so important and significant only to the most biased - who must make judgments based primarily on first impressions. Judging one based upon first impressions is also called racism.
Those genetic factors do contribute. But by far, we are mostly from where we came from which means mostly what occurs after birth.
Only reason that genetics are important: too many people are so racist as to judge only based upon first impressions. Those who judge us based upon who we are need no genetic information to know. Judgments based significantly on genetic information is just another way of judging only based upon first impressions - a concept we often call racism and a major source of unjustified hate.
Yes, if you live in a world where being a rag head, spic, wop, or gook means you cannot be trusted, then you live in a world of racists. Then genetics are imperative to who you are.
I totally disagree with most of this statement.
Where my parents came from and the things that influenced their lives had a great influence on mine. They became the parents they were because of their social, emotional and economic circumstances during childhood right up to the time of my birth and beyond which of course affected how they parented me and what sort of examples they set for me as a child.
The same can be said of their parents and their parents parents ad nauseum, so yes, what happened to my ancestors does have a direct effect on who I am today, without one shadow of a doubt in my mind.
@ Lj: nah that'd be an hysterian:P
tw: I agree with this "History is not unique to any one race (and definitively not unique to genetics). Greek history is the history of all mankind. Chinese history is the history of all mankind. We all inherit our common history." But that doesn't contradict my point. Our individual inheritances and stories are that shared history. To understand the past is to understand much about ourselves. To understand how we came about is to understand much about our past.
At a more visceral level, i want to know the story. My story, yes, but more importantly their stories. Each strand of that ancestry, affords me a direct share in those individual (and yet universal)stories.
At a more visceral level, i want to know the story. My story, yes, but more importantly their stories. Each strand of that ancestry, affords me a direct share in those individual (and yet universal)stories.
I agree with this as well, but alas I believe the English erased it. :p
On a more serious note, what does it mean to have this blood or that blood in your veins? Aside from certain genetic diseases or predispositions, what is the importance?
I am genetically Indian, brown skin and all, raised in the vast maw that is American culture. Which is more important? What claim should my Indian heritage have? If the answer is "none", then why should anyone care about things that may or may not exist in their own pedigree?
In America and in today's world it should mean nothing. It carries very little weight with me, other than a personal historical significance. We all have a history attached to our genes. I am fasinated by it, for myself, and for my own personal interest. But I do not buy into an idea that it should continue as some social construct to be passed from generation to generation as a burden or a guilt that is held up at every conflict between those of unlike genetic history.
Are we talking about culture or actual genetics?
For me, both. DNA research is a growing and important part of historical study.
Are we talking about culture or actual genetics?
Are they ever that far apart? Other than the adopted child thrust into another culture.
At a more visceral level, i want to know the story. My story, yes, but more importantly their stories. Each strand of that ancestry, affords me a direct share in those individual (and yet universal)stories.
Why do we not teach Chinese history in public schools? We need the inspiration of
their ancestry simply because we do not bother to teach it to students. To me, that is bias that denies so many students (of all genetics) 'their' history.
Why would a member of another race be able to provide you with that historical insight? Because they learned (after birth and not due to genetics) their history and culture.
But again, a Korean teenager who speaks with a southern accent. Why? She is a product of what was learned and experienced AFTER birth. Her genetics did little to make her what she is - except when someone judges her by her Asian characteristics - also called racism. Her genetics did not teach her Korean history and culture.
I can appreciate wanting to learn history of your unique ancestors. But that ancestry only provided some of your genetic uniqueness. It does provide an interesting story. But it defines little of who you are.
If a Chinaman born in the United States, then do you speak Mandarin or know who the Emperor Chu was? Genetics did not define that knowledge; define the man.
The Apple, Dell, or HP computer all have different genetics. And yet the computer is still defined by the environment (domain) that I access. Those genetics do not change the most signficant factor - The Cellar.
Ancestry defines much in my opinion, if it is something that has been a part of your upbringing. By which I mean the story of your ancestry. It all depends how much you associate in to that story. I personally associate in very strongly. It matters to me what strands there are to my ancestry and what branches to my family tree.
It's more about the culture those genetics bring to most families tw. It's pretty obvious to most of us taking part in this discussion.
Of course you can argue nature versus nurture if you want, but it's been done. Of course a chinese girl doesn't know her culture unless someone teaches her, but if she's born into a chinese household, she's likely to be taught many different aspects of chinese culture by her family while learning American culture outside the home and those two different cultures will meld into something else which will affect how her own children are raised etc etc etc...
I totally disagree with most of this statement.
Where my parents came from and the things that influenced their lives had a great influence on mine. They became the parents they were because of their social, emotional and economic circumstances during childhood right up to the time of my birth and beyond which of course affected how they parented me and what sort of examples they set for me as a child.
The same can be said of their parents and their parents parents ad nauseum, so yes, what happened to my ancestors does have a direct effect on who I am today, without one shadow of a doubt in my mind.
But what if you were switched at birth and no one knew?
Of course you can argue nature versus nurture if you want, but it's been done. Of course a chinese girl doesn't know her culture unless someone teaches her, but if she's born into a chinese household, she's likely to be taught many different aspects of chinese culture by her family while learning American culture outside the home and those two different cultures will meld into something else which will affect how her own children are raised etc etc etc...
In which case, you make my point. She is defined by factors after birth - learning from family, education, neighborhood, and social experiences.
I am having difficulty understanding DanaC's point; why genetics so defines a person. I believe genetics is only significantly relevant when society is so racist as to judge based upon first impressions.
Secondary point: racism is not about race or genetics. Racism is bias based on first impressions.
Well, you'd still be a product of the family you're brought up in if you believe in nurture rather than nature.
In which case, you make my point. She is defined by factors after birth - learning from family, education, neighborhood, and social experiences.
I am having difficulty understanding DanaC's point; why genetics so defines a person. I believe genetics is only significantly relevant when society is so racist as to judge based upon first impressions.
Secondary point: racism is not about race or genetics. Racism is bias based on first impressions.
tw, you never stated your point. You simply argued against Dana's. Who's to know that you're arguing nurture if you don't state your case clearly.
Argue all you like, but you're very difficult to understand most of the time.
I didnt say genetics defines a person. I said its a part of what we are. More importantly the genetic journey that led to each of us is an important story, individually and on a wider level.
tw could save the world,
...if only someone knew what the heck he was trying to say.
But what if you were switched at birth and no one knew?
Separated at birth could be a bigger problem. "Brother!"
The same can be said of their parents and their parents parents ad nauseum, so yes, what happened to my ancestors does have a direct effect on who I am today, without one shadow of a doubt in my mind.
I wasn't asking about history that
has a direct influence, via one's parents and upbringing. I am talking about getting a genetic assay to find out that some percentage of your DNA is from, say, Mongolia.
Why would this be relevant to anyone?
For me it'd be interesting, but I wouldn't say that being part mongolian made me who I am. What happened to my ancestors as mongolians would have had an effect on who I am though.
*nods*
I watched it again on youtube today. He said exactly what America and the world have been waiting to hear I think; unity, hope and strength.
Everyone's talking about it here. I cannot tell you how much this elevates your nation in our eyes. I had my ICQ running whilst I was studying last night, with the TV on as well. A good friend and ex-neighbour of mine was messaging me, just awestruck that you'd done it. The nervousness of the first polls closing, and the ardent hope was absolutely shared by people all over the world. My friend, a northern lad not much given to sentimentality, told me he had tears streaming down his face as we realised it was going to be an Obama victory on the night.
As a sidebar to this: the subject of my research last night was an 18th century journal, written by the wife of a naval officer who accompanied him on his travels. In one entry she describes them going aboard a slave carrying ship. There had been an outbreak of disease, with the captain, some crew and slaves affected. In order to stop the spread of the disease, the sick slaves were thrown overboard.
I read her description (she describes it as an inhuman act) of this event, one hour before I saw the son of a black man, married to a descendant of both slaves and slave owners, address the American nation, and the world, as President Elect of the USA.
Bloody hell. Just bloody hell.
Well stated. HOF material for me.
:fumette:
People have implied that I am somehow a traitor to my "race" since I do not strongly identify as "Indian-American". I resent the implication that someone outside of me can tell me who I am, based on an happenstance of genetics.
I wasn't asking about history that has a direct influence, via one's parents and upbringing. I am talking about getting a genetic assay to find out that some percentage of your DNA is from, say, Mongolia.
Why would this be relevant to anyone?
Because it is part of what we are, who we are, the genetic journey that led to us.
People have implied that I am somehow a traitor to my "race" since I do not strongly identify as "Indian-American". I resent the implication that someone outside of me can tell me who I am, based on an happenstance of genetics.
Nobody outside yourself can tell you who you are. These questions of genetics are only relevant if you are interested and intriged to know.
My surname has been directly and accurately traced to here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raasay
The other to here (mother):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_CavanInteresting, thanks merc.
This thread definitely qualifies for the Hall of Drift!
Now I know what a bank vole is...;)
Absolutely! Because of course nobody said they'd leave the country if McCain was elected.
"If she wins, I'm done. I can't do that for four years. And by 'I'm done,' I mean I'm leaving Earth." -- Tina Fey
"If McCain is elected and America staggers on further towards the abyss, then we will leave the country. That is not a problem for us.” --Seal
Others who have threatened: Michael Stipe, Stephen Baldwin, Susan Sarandon, Oliver Stone.
What great Patriots!
I wonder how they'll feel about having their wealth "redistributed?"
You do realize of course that Stephen Baldwin is a 'born again?' conservative and intended to
leave the country if Obama won? Did you include him to show both sides of the issue or because you were being stupid?
BTW, I think Tina Fey was complaining about being stuck in a single role and was not making a political statement. I'm pretty sure that 'leaving Earth' is not meant literally, or did you think she was building a spaceship in her backyard?
Rich.... Alec Baldwin is the original of the "gonna move to France" celebrities. He became infamous for it. In your video, Stephen Baldwin is making a joke of that fact by turning it on its head.
Did you include the video to help Juni's point or because you were being stupid?
For me, having information from my DNA could never, would never be about anything other than curiousity. Being caucasian, being easily identified as such, I suppose I have nothing to prove and no axe to grind. I know I have Irish blood, but as I say, I can hardly hate the English for their treatment of the Irish! Yes it would be interesting and fascinating if there was another race in there. Obviously the further back you go there would have to be the original link to Africa, but I'd be interested to see what happened along the way.
I am blood related to two women with a half-Chinese mother. Having seen photos of their children, it will probably only take another generation for this not to be apparent visually. They can't lay claim to any Chinese heritage, or at least not any knowledge of it - their Mum never knew her Chinese father (her mother was a prostitute on the Docks) and grew up without any Chinese influence in her life at all. But I'd be interested in it if it were me. I would not expect it to change who they are, how they see themselves - but it would be interesting.
I worked with a man who was of Indian descent. His parents were immigrants, but all the children were born in this country. The family were very Anglicised - his father studied at Oxford before bringing his new bride here a few years later. But it seemed so weird to me that he (my colleague) knew nothing about where his family were from. He couldn't even point to it on a map - only identify the region. His response was, "Why should I bother about that, I'm British." The only answer to this for the rest of us was to assume it was a response to racism. My Mum took us on plenty of trips round the places her & Dad grew up in London. She'd call us into the room if something on TV showed pictures of where Nanny grew up, in fact she gave me a book written by someone who lived in the same street as Grandad the other year (it was rubbish) just for the few names and places it mentioned.
The same was true to a greater or lesser extent for all the team. Only Bal had no interest in his parent's lives. Then again, he was the spoiled little boy of the family. Perhaps after all it was just being self centred :)
Ancestry defines much in my opinion, if it is something that has been a part of your upbringing. By which I mean the story of your ancestry. It all depends how much you associate in to that story. I personally associate in very strongly. It matters to me what strands there are to my ancestry and what branches to my family tree.
Our family vacation this summer included a trip to Plymouth. MA, where we took a tour of the house where my ancestor (John Howland) lived after he came over on the Mayflower. It was an old house, and it was interesting to see how he had lived. It's nice to know the story of at least one branch of my family. My kids seemed to really enjoy it, and they actually got t-shirts that contain the names of the Mayflower passengers so they can point out their ancestors, some through their mom, and some through me.
What's not so nice is to learn that I'm related to Sarah Palin through some of the same Pilgrims. The names in bold are our shared ancestors.
Palin’s Mayflower ancestors include William Brewster, John Howland, Stephen Hopkins, Joan (Hurst) Rogers, John and Elizabeth Tilley, and Richard Warren. She also descends from Thomas Prence, an early governor of Plymouth Colony, and her pedigree is laden with numerous pre-1650 immigrants from England.
I'm quite proud if a little fuzzy on my ancestry. Native American on mom's side, Swiss on the other (my maiden name is from the french speaking part of Switzerland.)
How opposite are those backgrounds? Though there are many many other tidbits mixed in, those are the ones that stand out, and I wish I knew more.
Anecdotally, I know my great great grandparents were scouts for the union army, knowing the lay of the land and assisting. This is what my (maternal) grandpa told me before he passed away, and I have no proof and don't even know if the ages would work out.
My great grandfather (paternal) came from Switzerland to the town in which I currently live and he started a cigar shop. I have some old cigar molds, and my parents have a chair, an old cigar press, and many molds and labels. Sadly, the building has been torn down (was on Main St.) My town is full of people who are mostly second and third cousins (my more immediate family is from another smallish town nearby) with the same last name as my maiden name. The history is quite interesting to me, but I should do research to know more.
Does it all really matter? I guess not in the grand scheme, but it's part of who I am. I see very strong traits from my mother's side.
You know what makes me irritated? All the people out there saying they are going to leave the United States now that Barack Obama is president.
Seriously? Then gtfo, now.
They're trying. They're just stuck in line behind all the fucking idiots who screamed the same thing after the last election went the other way.
I've been travelling so haven't read all the posts but here's my take.
Campaign is over. Election is over. I don't care if he's black, white, or purple. I don't care if he's democrat or republican. I don't care if he speaks well or stutters. I don't care if he is stoic or makes funny faces. I don't care if he is a single minded leader or a collegiate brain trust proponent. I care about the ideas he puts forth for my nation. I care about the direction he gives our military. I care about the new expenses he suggests and those he wants to eliminate. I care about how much government involvement he feels is good for my everyday life.
Congratulations on the win. You broke some barriers and made a lot of promises to do it. Now fulfill your promises.
I want to move to a tropical location as soon as we can possibly afford it... for the weather and to get away from the rat race in general, not to avoid Obama's presidency, or McCain's either, had it gone that way.
Panama is topping the list right now...
the tropics over Cabo? you really should go to cabo. I really like the pictures that come out of Cabo.;)
It looks like Costa Rica lost. I guess I'll just have to be awesome out there all by myself!! :)
Costa Rica looks lovely Cic, but Panama seems especially friendly to US expats. Unfortunately, there's plenty of time to decided.
Definitely going back to Cabo at some point LO. Definitely.
You white people, always moving to Canada.
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/02/24/75-threatening-to-move-to-canada/
I've posted this before, but it's funny, darnit.
LOL! I didn't see that before!! lol!
I've been saying it all year, only white people give a shit about diversity. I'm so glad that made the list!! lol!
Go to Mexico. Do they just love diversity? Love it love it?!? Hell no gringo!
I've heard Maya Angelou speak in person...twice. What an amazing woman. Thanks for sharing that; I forwarded the link to my mom who I was with when I saw Maya the second time.
I saw her speak once too. She's awesome. She also gave me a compliment. So needless to say, the compliment has never, ever been topped by anyone.
tw, you never stated your point. You simply argued against Dana's.
My point was clearly stated: I am digging for DanaC's point which I still cannot find. As a result of digging relentlessly, you summarized my question interestingly - nature vs nuture. I still don’t understand how genetics defines a person.
Meanwhile, if genetics is so important to who we are, then implied is a racist environment - based heavily in judgments based in first impressions.
Posted was a metaphor. Two computers with completely different DNA (hardware) act the same when in the same environment (the internet). Two computers with the exact same DNA (duplicate model from Dell) can be completely different when operated in two different environments (one in a timeshare environment; other only standalone without even a modem connection).
Genetics makes each person's hardware unique. Genetics does little to define who we are. Just because one is 100% Chinese does not put any Chinese behavior or attitude inside one - especially when one is raised by Martians.
I find it curious that no one wants to touch the definition of racism - judgment based in first impressions – which I suggest is a (if not the) major reason why genetics is important.
Returning somewhat to the original topic, irrelevant if Obama is (or is not) black. However it did matter (apparently) in West Virginia. Did they vote based upon genetics, or upon the character of the man? Is it an exclusive OR question or an oxymoron?
Meanwhile, if genetics is so important to who we are, then implied is a racist environment - based heavily in judgments based in first impressions.
This has nothing to do with what other people think of you. I am suggesting that there is nothing abnormal, or negative in wanting to know what your genetic ancestry is. Its got nothing to do with racism and first impressions. Its to do with history and one's own role in it.
I have Indian blood. You would not know it to look at me, I look very, very English. People's first impressions of me are the same, whether I am aware of my indian heritage or not. It would fascinate me, personally, to know exactly what my genetic heritage is, because that in itself tells a long historic tale, beginning waaaaay back in the mists of time and running all the way up to my own birth. I know, because my grandparents warned my mother that there was a possibility her children may be born with indian colouring and features: the details of that acestry are lost to family myths and family shames.
My Gran was born in South Africa, and though white, she had a hint of african about her features. I would love to know if that was so, and how far back it goes. Why? Because that in tself tells a story and raises questions. Was there a love affair? A pressured servant? An illicit lover? An English crime?
Genetics shape you because they are the physical building blocks that make us up. Contained within them are the echoes of past movement, wars and empires, love across the lines, trade routes and difficult journeys. I look back with affection at those who added to that story, victims and criminals alike. Slaves and slave owners in the case of the woman Wolf mentioned.
I saw her speak once too. She's awesome. She also gave me a compliment. So needless to say, the compliment has never, ever been topped by anyone.
I think we were separated at birth, except you look nothing like me and are a different age. Still...
:)
This has nothing to do with what other people think of you. I am suggesting that there is nothing abnormal, or negative in wanting to know what your genetic ancestry is. Its got nothing to do with racism and first impressions. Its to do with history and one's own role in it. ...
That reasoning I can both understand and appreciate.
My Gran was born in South Africa, and though white, she had a hint of african about her features. I would love to know if that was so, and how far black it goes.
Racialist!
I want to move to a tropical location as soon as we can possibly afford it... for the weather and to get away from the rat race in general, not to avoid Obama's presidency, or McCain's either, had it gone that way.
Panama is topping the list right now...
This is actually a cool choice:
I like how they've created a "lowest" grade for hotels, Tourist, but none of the hotels are actually rated that. It's like Large, Larger, and Largest soda sizes at the movies...
I think this goes for Obama too, there's the worst of times coming up in the next 1 -2 years, and he just volunteered to preside over it.
So that's why i suddenly feel a close connection with him
[/onlypersonwhoactuallydoesanythingonboardofswimclubwithoutapool]
America - Like a swim club without a pool.
The Cellar - Your virtual swim club without a pool.
This is actually a cool choice:
Coxen Hole sounds good fo LJ. ;)
I know I'm coming in here late, but ...
congratulations sir, i support you and the United States of America
I support the United States of America and then Mr. Obama - trivial perhaps, but country first ;)
But the Republicans actually try and win wars these days. Can that be said of the Democrats in this time?
I don't think so - I think the D's are gonna walk away from a fight they think they cannot win. There thought process is apparently to use that money to help Americans here instead of spending $5000.00 a SECOND in Iraq. Whether that is prudent or not is still to be seen, but in the 3 minutes it took me to write this post the we spent almost $1,000,000 on the war. [food for thought]
You know what makes me irritated? All the people out there saying they are going to leave the United States now that Barack Obama is president.
Seriously? Then gtfo, now.
I agree wholeheartedly! I really haven't been around much, but still I haven't heard anyone saying they'd leave.
That was the best campaign in the history of US politics.
He and his team deserve it.
Without question! A spectacular job by an amazing cast who literally ran what was a virtually flawless campaign. Heck, they even got Biden to STFU most of the time. :cool:
I don't think so - I think the D's are gonna walk away from a fight they think they cannot win. There thought process is apparently to use that money to help Americans here instead of spending $5000.00 a SECOND in Iraq.
How do we win a war when it is only a civil war? How do we win a war when our leaders cannot even admit who the enemy is? When the strategic objective is not defined? When even the General (Petraeus) says we cannot win this war - that the war can only be won by the combatants? When two out of three potential antagonists want us out? And when basic military concepts make it obvious why we cannot win that war?
One in another discussion knows that shooting people will always win a war - the same strategy that created victory in Nam and justified spending money on "Mission Accomplished".
The questions left unanswered and ignored are massively long. Obama could answer one every day in office and still have a list half as long. Most all of these questions (such as those for Afghanistan) have no simple answer - could never be answered in a day. This new president has one of the most daunting tasks I have ever seen a new president confront - even back when I watched Kennedy defeat Nixon.
A justified war in Afghanistan continues to be lost because some idiots did not know basic military concepts AND therefore handed the country back to the Taliban. We have so screwed up the justified war that our allies are now leaving the battlefield. Soon to leave are Canada and Netherlands. Because our leaders were so dumb, a former American General commanding in Afghanistan says we now have about 10 more years to win that one if we decide to actually fight it.
Of course. He is only saying what military commanders knew even 2000 years before North America was discovered. Only one completely devoid of basic military knowledge would deny that. Why would some of the world's closest American allies finally give up in frustration? They are tired of virtually no American support and a war that cannot be won due to a misguided strategy imposed by America.
"Mission Accomplished" will never be an American victory. The question is how severe will be the loss. It appears that when we leave (now or in five years), the Civil War will only pick up in violence OR the various parties will finally do what America can never make possible - a peace table settlement. Obama's question is to spend those ten more years or seek a more reasonable settlement.
We have created a great instability where even Afghanistan and Pakistan are adversaries. This diplomatic problem is not for the feign of mind or for anyone whose solution is more guns.
Meanwhile, where is that question that only decent Americans ask? When do we go after bin Laden?
This new president has one of the longest list and some of the most challenging decisions I have ever seen waiting for an incoming president. And that includes every president even back when Kennedy defeated Nixon.
Finally someone is thinking rather than using guns and money grenades to declare victory. From the Washington Post of 11 Nov 2008:
Afghan War Strategy to Be More Regional
The incoming Obama administration plans to explore a more regional strategy to the war in Afghanistan -- including possible talks with Iran -- and looks favorably on the nascent dialogue between the Afghan government and "reconcilable" elements of the Taliban, according to Obama national security advisers.
Obama also intends to renew the U.S. commitment to the hunt for Osama bin Laden, ...
Mike Yon says...
And of course we all know Yon rocks. :jig:
Al-Qaida Insults Obama in Audio Tape
CAIRO,Egypt (Nov. 19) - Al-Qaida's No. 2 leader used a racial epithet to insult Barack Obama describing the president-elect in demeaning terms that imply he does the bidding of whites.
The message appeared chiefly aimed at persuading Muslims and Arabs that Obama does not represent a change in U.S. policies. Ayman al-Zawahri said in the message, which appeared on militant Web sites, that Obama is "the direct opposite of honorable black Americans" like Malcolm X.
In al-Qaida's first response to Obama's victory, al-Zawahri also called the president-elect — along with secretaries of state Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice — "house negroes."
Speaking in Arabic, al-Zawahri uses the term "abeed al-beit," which literally translates as "house slaves." But al-Qaida supplied English subtitles of his speech that included the translation as "house negroes."
The message also includes old footage of speeches by Malcolm X in which he explains the term, saying black slaves who worked in their white masters' house were more servile than those who worked in the fields. Malcolm X used the term to criticize black leaders he accused of not standing up to whites.
In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the latest message was just "more despicable comments from a terrorist."
The 11-minute 23-second video features the audio message by al-Zawahri, who appears only in a still image, along with other images, including one of Obama wearing a Jewish skullcap as he meets with Jewish leaders. In his speech, al-Zawahri refers to a Nov. 5 U.S. airstrike attack in Afghanistan, meaning the video was made after that date.
Al-Zawahri said Obama's election has not changed American policies he said are aimed at oppressing Muslims and others.
"America has put on a new face, but its heart full of hate, mind drowning in greed, and spirit which spreads evil, murder, repression and despotism continue to be the same as always," the deputy of al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden said.
He said Obama's plan to shift troops to Afghanistan is doomed to failure, because Afghans will resist.
"Be aware that the dogs of Afghanistan have found the flesh of your soldiers to be delicious, so send thousands after thousands to them," he said.
Al-Zawahri did not threaten specific attacks, but warned Obama that he was "facing a Jihadi (holy war) awakening and renaissance which is shaking the pillars of the entire Islamic world; and this is the fact which you and your government and country refuse to recognize and pretend not to see."
He said Obama's victory showed Americans acknowledged that President George W. Bush's policies were a failure and that the result was an "admission of defeat in Iraq."
But Obama's professions of support for Israel during the election campaign "confirmed to the Ummah (Islamic world) that you have chosen a stance of hostility to Islam and Muslims," al-Zawahri said.
*Bold mine* I can't wait till conversation between these two.