The Third Jihad
A powerful look at our country from a Muslim American.
http://www.thethirdjihad.com/Aw how precious, they have a nice little icon plugging that wonderfully accurate "Obsession" DVD that came with my newspaper! I wonder what their agenda is? Hmm
/sarcasm.
Agenda....?
Here let me get you a glass of Kook Aid...
You obviously did not listen to the video and make your own mind up, someone made it up for you. Obama?
Merc - you missed the sarcasm
On purpose. This shit is real. Well so is Obama for that matter and I still can't move off the grid.
Watch the free (for now) 30 min version.
http://www.thethirdjihad.com/30min.htmlNo, my mind has been made up by actual interactions and frank discussions with Muslims in my community,one a self described fundamentalist (not in the way that these publications would have you think) through my Islam and the West seminar via my university. There is no doubt that there are extremist splinter groups that wish to do Westerners, Christians, Jews, and other Muslims harm. Inflammatory media such as these, do nothing to help strengthen ties with the great majority of moderate Muslims, which is what we need now more than anything. These people genuinely fear our government and publications such as these. They live in uncertainty within our own free country because of wiretapping, no-fly lists, suspicious men following them, random questionings, and rendition. Many Muslims have tried to reach out, but are turned away by many folks because of the "Muslim stigma". Stigma instilled by fear-mongering publications like "Obsession".
And no I'm not voting for Obama just fyi. I do not agree with a nanny-state, abortion, or the assault weapons ban. Just hearing him speak grates on me.
Watching the 30 min video now.
No one need watch the video. Soundbytes from the video define it.
the horror of terrorism
Islam will dominate
and entire movement and the idea is a hatred for our way of life
the FBI uncovered a secret document
Mulsim's destiny to perform jihad
reveals the plans of radicals in America
are you starting to see pattern here?
Some people always need a bogeyman to hate and to justify a political agenda.
Well of course than we have our resident Jester take the stage. Dance tw, dance.....
Why of couse you can tell us all which parts you don't agee with.
No one need watch the video. Soundbytes from the video define it. Some people always need a bogeyman to hate and to justify a political agenda.
I want to get this right. Are you saying there is absolutely no threat from extreme Muslims?
I think most people agree with TW and Bullett here. A lot of that video is just fear-mongering.
Yes, the video is an inflammatory piece. Agreed.
Still, are you trying to tell me that Muslim extremists pose no threat?
Pico...... Oh Reeellly. And when you went to the Middle East, what was your experience. Please share....
Yes, the video is an inflammatory piece. Agreed.
Still, are you trying to tell me that Muslim extremists pose no threat?
NO.
Pico...... Oh Reeellly. And when you went to the Middle East, what was your experience. Please share....
NO.
You've not been to the Middle East, or you don't want to share?
DO Muslim extremists care about women and children in their quest for Muslim supremacy? It is a battleground for ideology. The US is sleeping. Obama will foster it. And I will be here to remind you of it. Obama and his Demoncratic Congress will own all events that occur after November 4th.
NO.
Ok, please share. I would be very interested in your experince when you were in the Middle East. Thanks.
DO Muslim extremists care about women and children in their quest for Muslim supremacy? It is a battleground for ideology. The US is sleeping. Obama will foster it. And I will be here to remind you of it. Obama and his Demoncratic Congress will own all events that occur after November 4th.
See here's the problem. Islam is much more fragmented than most realize. These splinter groups are to Islam as the Westboro Baptist Church is to Christianity. They claim to be Islamic. but have widely different beliefs than orthodox Islam and as such are not accepted by general Sunnis and Shi'as. Hell, Shi'as are just barely alllowed on the hajj by the mainstream Sunnis, let alone other splinter groups like the Sevener's and the Twelver's and one that believes Ali, Muhammad's son, is a messianic figure. We can't continue to paint this broad picture of an all-conquering, unified Islam, it just isn't accurate. Christian churches use very similar rhetoric about the End Times, judgement, God's kingdom established on earth, "go and make disciples of all nations", etc.
Dammm.... Sounds like Christian groups in the US!!!!
How many have used Car Bombs to get their message across? Just wondering...
Ok, please share. I would be very interested in your experince when you were in the Middle East. Thanks.
Hey, if this is what floats your boat, go for it. Some people need something to fear and hate in order to generate purpose in their life. I reject it.
Hey, if this is what floats your boat, go for it. Some people need something to fear and hate in order to generate purpose in their life. I reject it.
Cool, I respect your choice to stick your head in the sand. But I will be here to blame the next administration for everthing that happens after 4 Nov for the next 4 years.... And rub it in the face of anyone who supported them before that.
Dammm.... Sounds like Christian groups in the US!!!!
How many have used Car Bombs to get their message across? Just wondering...
None that I know of. Abortion clinic bombings do come to mind though. Yet any self proclaimed "Christian" who uses a car bombing to get his/her point across is in the same boat as any "Muslim" car bomber. The normal, law abiding mainstream folks, Christians and Muslims, declare that such activities are not in alignment with the tenants of their faiths. To kill innocents goes against the central teachings of brotherly love and care-taking of the weak and the poor that both faiths share. These extremists are not considered a part of the Muslim faith, so it is irresponsible for us to label them as though they are representative of underlying Islamic tones of world domination by whatever means.
Merc, the challenges that we will face as a nation will be far more pressing than the threat that comes from Islamic Radicals.
I agree, so please tell me when the last Christian used a car bomb to get their point across and how often. Thanks.
Merc, the challenges that we will face as a nation will be far more pressing than the threat that comes from Islamic Radicals.
Yes and no. Time will tell. Since I can only base my own experience of 20 years on active duty my view is scewed. I admit it. But I will also tell you that for every event that makes the news paper, that the average Joe reads about, there are 5 to 10 that they never heard about and never will. The world is evil people. Believe it or not.....
I agree, so please tell me when the last Christian used a car bomb to get their point across and how often. Thanks.
Do I really have to list all the atrocities committed during The Troubles?
Plenty of good Christians blowing eachother up. And please don't think they targeted the Armed Forces, or the Government.
They bombed pubs, hotels, shopping centres.
And it had as much to do with religion as politics as power as fear of invasion as any Muslim bombings.
ETA like to target commuters. Do they care about women and children?
Nope!
They care about a separate Catalan state.
Are they Christians?
Probably, they're certainly not Muslims.
Go on, blame the Government from 4 Novemeber for every single thing that happens, from you stepping in gum to the next bomb that kills American people. But if McCain wins the same thing stands. And it means you blame everything that has happened up until now on whatever Government was in power at the time too.
And it means you blame everything that has happened up until now on whatever Government was in power at the time too.
That is why I posted it, [sarc]. To late, everyone already does that. And now this piece of news.
WARNING FROM THE MIDDLE EAST
This morning, from a cave somewhere in Pakistan, Taliban Minister of Migration, Mohammed Omar, warned the United States that if military actions against Iraq continues, Taliban authorities will cut off American's supply of convenience store managers, and possible candidates for President of the United States. And if this action does not yield sufficient results, cab drivers will be next, followed by Dell and AOL customer service reps., and then Motel 6 managers.
Folks, it's getting ugly........
Extremists
Extremists who need extremists
Are the pluckiest extremists in the world.
Nice to see an American who can't wait to see our country fall apart, as you think it will Merc. Though I've never been a Bush supporter, I still respect this country enough that I had hopes he and his administration wouldn't fuck it all up: that I might even be wrong and it would be a wonderful time of growth and prosperity.
You want an "I told you so" so badly: is that what patriotism is? You tell me. I've never served.
Like the Quarterback on a football team - The President gets too much credit and/or blame for things that happen during his/her administration. There is typically a lag from 5-10 years on most policy changes. However, with respect to congress it seems to be just the opposite. They seem to skate by unscathed from the ramifications of their actions.
I prefer to think of our president as the coach, if we're talking football analogy.
And if the team loses time after time after time, that coach no longer has a job! :rolleyes:
♪ Extremists
Extremists who need extremists
Are the pluckiest extremists in the world. ♫
Shawnee you crack me up.
Oh, and fixed it for you.
How do you make the little music notes? I saw you had done it on another post...cute!
I prefer to think of our president as the coach, if we're talking football analogy.
And if the team loses time after time after time, that coach no longer has a job!
That's fine -
Like the Coach on a football team - The President gets too much credit and/or blame for things that happen during his/her administration. There is typically a lag from 5-10 years on most policy changes. However, with respect to congress it seems to be just the opposite. They seem to skate by unscathed from the ramifications of their actions.
Same analogy holds.
Extremists
Extremists who need extremists
Are the pluckiest extremists in the world.
Nice to see an American who can't wait to see our country fall apart, as you think it will Merc. Though I've never been a Bush supporter, I still respect this country enough that I had hopes he and his administration wouldn't fuck it all up: that I might even be wrong and it would be a wonderful time of growth and prosperity.
You want an "I told you so" so badly: is that what patriotism is? You tell me. I've never served.
There are many ways to be patriotic. Serving in the military is but one of those many. I don't recall saying that I am one of those "who can't wait to see our country fall apart". Nor am I much of a Bush supporter. So please, since you are wrong about your assumptions of me, what is your point?
Cool, I respect your choice to stick your head in the sand. But I will be here to blame the next administration for everthing that happens after 4 Nov for the next 4 years.... And rub it in the face of anyone who supported them before that.
There are many ways to be patriotic. Serving in the military is but one of those many. I don't recall saying that I am one of those "who can't wait to see our country fall apart". Nor am I much of a Bush supporter. So please, since you are wrong about your assumptions of me, what is your point?
Whatever you say, merc. I think your brand of extremism is very dangerous to our country.
I just think turn about is fair play. I will be having a blast. IMHO, Obama is an extremist. McCain is a wet noodle comparatively.
I am afraid that many will blame whatever happens over the next four years on the current administration. In some cases I think that will be correct. I think the next President will take the credit for the economic turnaround that will most likely occur during their tenure. Realistically, they may not have had very much to do with it. We'll see.
I just think turn about is fair play. I will be having a blast.
I hate to ask this, but you'll be having a blast doing what exactly?
I hate to ask this, but you'll be having a blast doing what exactly?
it was [sarc], I forgot my tags.
[sarc]Having a blast blaming Obama for everything he didn't do.[/sarc] Sort of like Bush.
Uh ok - question 2...
Will there be a fourth Jihad?
[SIZE="4"]Obama is an extremist.[/SIZE]
Everybody is an extremist to an extremist.
Extremists always need a bogeyman. Evil squinty eyes extremist who threaten us in SE Asia. Evil Soviets whose only life purpose is to nuke Americans. Evil Japanese companies vying to destroy American jobs. All Arabs are evil heathens whose only purpose in life is jihad.
To rally extremists, an extremist leader would protect bin Laden. Extremists can be manipulated by dangling these bogeymen and hyping the fear.
An extremist who acutally understood what Robert Baer writes would never post what has been recently
been posted in the Cellar. Baer does not view Islam as a threat. Baer was long a valued source of tw's posts that extremists disagree with.
Those who are extremists will only see extremism everywhere. Rush Limbaugh's hypes fear of bogeymen; makes sure extremists always have something to fear.
Obama is an extremists. Obama is a muslim. Obama is a niger. What happened to Obama is a nazi?
They're gonna unveil that one on November 1st!
They're gonna unveil that one on November 1st!
The 5th. The day after the elections. :D
The day after the elections, a 5th will be in order. ;)
No doubt. I am actually looking forward to it. I am really interested in what the statistical demographics are going to look like. Who voted for who and from where. I imagine the population clusters for the Demoncrats will not be unlike 2000 or 2004. Same for the Republickins. Something will be throwing one side over to a winner. Unless it is a landslide by NoBama (possible) the only other choice would be a slim win by McCain (possible), and in the end we will remain essentially what we are today, as on this forum, deeply divided.
Aw how precious, they have a nice little icon plugging that wonderfully accurate "Obsession" DVD that came with my newspaper! I wonder what their agenda is? Hmm
/sarcasm.
I got one of those DVDs in the mail. What is it supposed to be about?
Merc I do find your mangling of Obama's name both cheap and wearing. I'd say the same if someone was doing it to McCain or Palin and posted it as often as you do. It's schoolyard stuff and does nothing to improve the points you are trying to make.
OK, lemme get this str8. They are launching the 4th on the 5th or with a fifth?
I got one of those DVDs in the mail. What is it supposed to be about?
The threat of extremist Islamic people the world over pose to our peace-loving way of life. A scare tactic for the election season.
OK, lemme get this str8. They are launching the 4th on the 5th or with a fifth?
A forth with a fifth. That is the only solution. Washed down with a pint.
Merc I do find your mangling of Obama's name both cheap and wearing. I'd say the same if someone was doing it to McCain or Palin and posted it as often as you do. It's schoolyard stuff and does nothing to improve the points you are trying to make.
Oh, I am sooooo sorry. My bad....
Oh, I am sooooo sorry. My bad....
Apology accepted.
You know what?
This thread gives me hope.
I see (read) Americans defending Muslims. And accepting that Islam is a religious choice and not necessarily a devil's mark which denotes genocidal tendencies.
And I am pretty sure that those who have positive personal experiences of Islam are in the minority, meaning that the others are just taking it on faith (ahem) in human nature.
Thank you for unintentionally bolstering my faith in reasoning human beings.
I do believe that the majority of Islamic people are peaceful and loving. Same goes for all religions. There are extremists in all aspects of society. But sometimes, as history has shown us, small segments of these groups can get the masses to do things that they would not otherwise do. Do you not think that radical elements of society can do this?
Of course - I've already mentioned what happens When Good Christians Go Bad.
My post was sincerely meant as a positive post about Dwellars seeing people rather than religion. I don't think that was the case three years ago and I view it as a step forward.
You and I are on the opposite side of the argument in many things, and this is one, but again I am heartened by your last post. And again, it gives me hope. I'm not an apologist and you are not racist. We can agree to disagree.
Thank you for you post. And thank you for seeing through some of my comments, if you knew me personally you would know that I am far from racist, I am certainly not a right wing conservative bible thumper. I have not been in a church for years, well not to include since my father died and before that when my sister died. I have extremely liberal views on some things, and conservative views on others. I like to play devils advocate to extremely liberal comments as well. Most people miss the point. Thanks again. You are a good person.
Merc I do find your mangling of Obama's name both cheap and wearing. I'd say the same if someone was doing it to McCain or Palin and posted it as often as you do. It's schoolyard stuff and does nothing to improve the points you are trying to make.
*Nods* I have the same response to the constant mangling of Hillary's name into Hitlery. It's vile. I don't care what your political grief with her is, the reason she's so hated is that she's a woman who got uppity.
*Nods* I have the same response to the constant mangling of Hillary's name into Hitlery. It's vile. I don't care what your political grief with her is, the reason she's so hated is that she's a woman who got uppity.
No, she's also hated for the things she did, or tried to do, while she was uppity there. :haha:
*Nods* I have the same response to the constant mangling of Hillary's name into Hitlery. It's vile. I don't care what your political grief with her is, the reason she's so hated is that she's a woman who got uppity.
No, the reason she is hated is because her last name is
Clinton. :D
Yeah, she's got a lot of nerve using the same name as the best president since Harry Truman. ;)
No, she's also hated for the things she did, or tried to do, while she was uppity there. :haha:
*chuckles* touche :P
Yeah, I guess so. But the level of bile seems more extreme with Hillary than it is/was with Clinton. Looking in from the outside, that is. I only have limited access to what the American media is up to, so that may reflect more how it was channelled and packaged at this end, rather than how it looks on the ground *shrugs*.
@Merc. Ok. But now my interest is piqued. Who do you hate/despise more, Bill or Hillary?
Geraldine Ferraro ran on a Dem ticket as the VP with Mondale - she wasn't treated like Hillary. Why do you suppose that is?
*Shows ignorance of American political history* I have never heard of either of those people...
I do think the media treats female politicians differently to the way hey treat male politicians...and I think the electorate have different expectations of female politicians than those they have of male politicians...
Well, duh. *Chuckles* The media expresses and distills (potentially distorts) current cultural preoccupations. It reflects back our cultural expectations and that includes how we view men and women. On the public stage, men must prove themselves to the electorate by showing their strengths and talents and so it is with women; but there had better be 'good wife and mother' on her list of strengths if she wants to be within a mile of high office.
It's expected that a man on the public stage will have a wife in his private world; but how good a father and husband he is only really becomes an issue if he's a cheating bastard. Domestic affairs have the potential to weaken him in public opinion, but they're unlikely to be a strengthening asset.
*shrugs* It's not a conspiracy. It's just the way it is.
A wife and a Mistress.... :D
The first woman to run for President:
Victoria Woodhull, born in 1838 in Homer, Ohio, was selected by the Equal Rights Party to be its candidate in the 1872 election.
http://www.loc.gov/wiseguide/may06/women.htmlA wife and a Mistress.... :D
The first woman to run for President:
Victoria Woodhull, born in 1838 in Homer, Ohio, was selected by the Equal Rights Party to be its candidate in the 1872 election.
http://www.loc.gov/wiseguide/may06/women.html
No shit? Fantastic, thanks for the link! That's really interesting. I tend to stick pretty much with Britain in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, only really look at whats going on in other countries where it relates back to Britain *smiles* so it's kind of nice to step out of that and look at similar social movement elsewhere.
Though, actually, now I know shes from the nineteenth century, I think I have heard of her. Her names been mentioned in the context of women in te 'public sphere'. I had assumed you weretalking about candidates in more recent history:P
I was Dana. Merc took it to a whole nother level.
It is only because I heard it on NPR. Yea I am a NPR junky. Whatever......
I wasn't takin a shot at you Merc - I was just sayin...
I really don't think that any of the shit Hillary gets is because she is a woman. Its simply because of who she is, thats all.
I wasn't takin a shot at you Merc - I was just sayin...
I really don't think that any of the shit Hillary gets is because she is a woman. Its simply because of who she is, thats all.
No worries. I did not take it any other way. Just shooting from the hip. A weakness of mine.
This from a beloved brother and friend:
I got the DVD, "Obsession," in the mail and in a newspaper from the group that is responsible for making these films. They were distributed only in "battleground" states with no effort - THEY said - to influence the election. My first though is this is from some fundamentalist christian pro-Israel group. It is actually from a Rabbi named Raphael Shore. See below. This is all partisan anti-Muslim rhetoric designed to scare people into voting for McPalin.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/erik-ose/pro-mccain-group-dumping_b_125969.html
Raphael Shore is an Israeli-Canadian film writer, producer, and Rabbi employed full time by Aish HaTorah.[1][2] He is the founder of The Clarion Fund, a non-profit organization that seeks to advance the idea that the United States faces a threat of radical Islam. Shore is also a regular critic of the media coverage on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, coverage which he alleges is regularly anti-Israel. [3]
Shore's documentary about radical Islam, Obsession, became a controversial part of the 2008 presidential campaign when he distributed copies of it to 28 million voters in U.S. swing states in an apparent attempt to convince them of the dangers of Islamic terror in the run-up to the election. [4] Shore has declined to reveal who funded both the production of the film or dissemination of the DVDs. [5]
Shore is currently a full-time employee of Aish HaTorah[6], an Orthodox organization devoted to promoting Jewish learning, and has collaborated with its sub-organization, HonestReporting, a pro-Israel media watchdog site.
Shore wrote and produced the documentary films Relentless: The Struggle for Peace in the Middle East and Obsession: Radical Islam’s War Against the West.
Raphael Shore is the twin brother of Ephraim Shore, the former head of HonestReporting.[7]
The information above would need to be further vetted to be accepted at face value. The typical event has occurred. He says, she says, he says, she says. Somewhere you will need to make your own decisions.
I'd like to list a few of the things that I use to even this out in my own head.
- Most Muslims are regular joes that just want to take care of their family and do Gods will.
- Most Christians are regular joes that just want to take care of their family and do Gods will.
- There are a few radical Christians who will indeed blow you up or murder you if you are involved in something very immoral in their eyes, like abortion.
- There are a few radical Muslims who will indeed blow you up or murder you if you are not a Muslim (of their type).
- Just for the record there has never been a Norwegian suicide bomber.
Which one poses the largest threat right now to my country? Do I have any real evidence to support the conclusion I may come to in answering that question?
I'm most worried about the Icelandic suicide bombers.
I really don't think that any of the shit Hillary gets is because she is a woman. Its simply because of who she is, thats all.
That's right. She is who Rush Limbaugh has been telling us to hate for over eight years now. Many will simply believe what they are told to believe - including WMDs. Rush Limbaugh and the many other Republican party mouthpieces have been telling us for at least a decade to hate Hilary Clinton. Not all of us are smart enough to ignore or demand 'reasons why' from those wacko extremist mouthpieces.
I'm most worried about the Icelandic suicide bombers.
Me too. But I heard the chicks are smoking hot!
Yea, the chicks are the BOMB!
...oh God, I kill me. HA!
Pics required after a claim like that!
I was looking for Stiff Little Fingers on YouTube for the music thread, and came across this compilation of clips set to Alternative Ulster.
The song was neither pro or anti British, it was simply written about living in a war zone, and the young rising up to claim a reasonable living space. The clips (which are more biased) at least show what it was like to grow up in NI in the 70s.
I know I might witter on about this, but it was a huge thing for me, growing up Catholic in England. And in and around London, where many attacks took place (apols Birmingham, Manchester, Warrington et al). Terrorism has a huge impact on your life, especially if it happens somewhere you spend a lot of your time, and/ or your relatives live there.
[youtube]xfOQ9b4GiyM&NR[/youtube]
America is simply too big to live under the fear of sustained terrorist attacks by Muslims. Those already inside your borders will be too easily corrupted by the American way of life, which offers so many more immediate pleasures than in a strictly Islamic state. And devout Muslims aren't bombers. You'd need thousands of fruitloops to kill on a scale even approaching the troubles (percentage wise).
If you have anything to fear it will come from those closest to you. Of course I hope not. And in fact I really don't think it will. Anyone want to make a bet on a terrorist attack in the US in the next year? I'll give you great odds.
BTW it's the album version of the song. I'll find a live one for the music thread, it's much dirtier (not the words, just the music)
America is simply too big to live under the fear of sustained terrorist attacks by Muslims. Those already inside your borders will be too easily corrupted by the American way of life, which offers so many more immediate pleasures than in a strictly Islamic state. And devout Muslims aren't bombers. You'd need thousands of fruitloops to kill on a scale even approaching the troubles (percentage wise).
If you have anything to fear it will come from those closest to you. Of course I hope not. And in fact I really don't think it will. Anyone want to make a bet on a terrorist attack in the US in the next year? I'll give you great odds.
Agree 100%. I used to live in a "very" Islamic neighborhood and all the kids growing up in the States act much more Western than Islamic.
Al-Qaida-linked Web site backs McCain as president
WASHINGTON (AP) - Al-Qaida supporters suggested in a Web site message this week they would welcome a pre-election terror attack on the U.S. as a way to usher in a McCain presidency.
The message, posted Monday on the password-protected al-Hesbah Web site, said if al-Qaida wants to exhaust the United States militarily and economically, "impetuous" Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain is the better choice because he is more likely to continue the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"This requires presence of an impetuous American leader such as McCain, who pledged to continue the war till the last American soldier," the message said. "Then, al-Qaida will have to support McCain in the coming elections so that he continues the failing march of his predecessor, Bush."
SITE Intelligence Group, based in Bethesda, Md., monitors the Web site and translated the message.
"If al-Qaida carries out a big operation against American interests," the message said, "this act will be support of McCain because it will push the Americans deliberately to vote for McCain so that he takes revenge for them against al-Qaida. Al-Qaida then will succeed in exhausting America till its last year in it."
Mark Salter, a senior McCain adviser, said he had heard about the Web site chatter but had no immediate comment.
That last line says a lot to me. "No comment" Way to come off as being the strong leader he purports to be - NOT!