Mandy's back! (Brit politics)

Ohmigod! Mandy is back.


And he knows where you live!


(Peter Mandelsohn, the original architect of the New Labour spin machine)

Is that good or bad?

It's interesting *smiles*. He was pushed out into the cold of European politics when he fell from favour under Blair. Now he's being brought back in by Brown.

Mandy was loyal to Blair and had been a friend to both prior to the big division over the leadership. It was always said that Brown considered Mandy to have betrayed him utterly.

Hmmmmmmmmmm
Slippery. Too close to Portillo in my book.

True. But his experience in global finance is pretty much second to none because of his work in Europe.

Brown seems to be drawing back all the old architects of New Labour. Margeret Beckett is back as well. And another guy whose name now escapes me. Much as I despised them as they were dragging my party to the right...they're probably a better bet given the current crisis, than the young and slick careerists who've been setting the tone lately.

DanaC;489360 wrote:

Much as I despised them as they were dragging my party to the right...they're probably a better bet given the current crisis, than the young and slick careerists who've been setting the tone lately.

Hmm, A very interesting comment there Dana - very interesting indeed.

I gave a careers talk at Uni last year, for the Politics Careers group. I and three other panelists sat at the front table talking to thirty or forty fresh-faced 19 year olds. Two of the panelists were political assistants to a local MEP (member of euro parliament) and much of the advice was about getting into that side of it. I was there totalk about local government and getting involved in front line politics.

Many of these kids were looking to politics for a possible career, without actually knowing what they thought politically. I asked at one point how many of them had a clear idea which party was closest to their views/interests. Fewer than ten hands went up.

Not that there's anything wrong with being a 19 year old student and not knowing where you stand politically, or not knowing enough about the parties to make informed decisions, but surely if you're interested in politics enough to consider it a career, you've got some kind of clue where you stand?

This is a problem. Not those individual kids, they're just following the interesting adverts on the student portal inviting them to consider a career in politics...no, what's a problem is the emphasis on career rather than politics. This is rife within mainstream parties. Time was, if you wanted to get anywhere in politics you kind of had to show some aptitude for and experience in some other walk of life. It most likely related strongly to government (law for instance) or commerce if you were a Tory, and law, industry or public sector (with union activity) if you were Labour.

The 'rising stars' in politics now are young, slick graduates who've come in via working for an MP straight from university. I look at politicians like David Milliband and I see little passion or conviction, no experience of life outside the bubble and roots that are merely theoretical. On the Tory's side, Osborne, the Shadow Chancellor, looks like a schoolboy and can't keep the smirk from his face.

I hated the tories in the 80s and 90s because I hated their politics and they were the enemy. The current crop are so busy trying to pretend they're not the old tories their answers are like plaited fog, all their concentration is on presentation and not frightening people away. Meanwhile my party's been led about by the nose, by focus-group obsessed young careerists and a party hierarchy that's become ever more detached from the grassroots membership.

Where are tomorrow's statesmen and stateswomen? Milliband? Osborne? I don't know quite when or how it happened, but somewhere in recent decades, the heart was ripped from mainstream British politics.



[eta] I am probably overstating the case. There were doubtless many graduates going straight into politics before. And many will come in now from other careers. There just seems to be a shift in the balance of who gets ahead within the parliamentary parties.

DanaC;489780 wrote:

snip~
Not that there's anything wrong with being a 19 year old student and not knowing where you stand politically, or not knowing enough about the parties to make informed decisions, but surely if you're interested in politics enough to consider it a career, you've got some kind of clue where you stand? ~snip

There were probably there to find out if politics was better than working for a living. ;)

*chuckles*

touche :P

The strange thing is, having dipped my toe into that murkiest of pools, I can tell you that most politicians never stop working. Even the long holiday during Summer recess isn't actually a holiday. The House doesn't sit, but they all have constituency offices.

Our local MP routinely works an 80 hour week. The only time she can totally switch off is if she's out of the country for a couple of weeks. yet I constantly see letters in the local rag talking about her as being lazy, typical politician, self-interested, raking in the money and doing nothing for it. She's one of the hardest working people I have ever met, gets well-paid, but isn't wealthy, lives in a very ordinary two bedroomed house and takes two foreign holidays a year.

She's one of the better constituency MPs, but she's not so unusual. I know many MPs who work ridiculous hours.

Public perceptions of the politician's life and the reality for most MPs are two vastly different things.

DanaC;489780 wrote:

On the Tory's side, Osborne, the Shadow Chancellor, looks like a schoolboy and can't keep the smirk from his face.

I had to look up Shadow Chancellor in Wiki. In the US, the term 'shadow' applied to government would have conspiratorial overtones. Looking at the concept, it sound interesting. The minority party has a single spokesman on economic policy to critique the way the majority is handling the financial system.

That might have been useful over here in the US at some point in the past 10 years, although we've had plenty of ignored warnings from our GAO about debts and deficits, and they're a part of the government. They're like the Carbon Monoxide alarm that someone unplugs because it keeps making noise and they can't afford to fix the furnace.

DanaC;489839 wrote:

Public perceptions of the politician's life and the reality for most MPs are two vastly different things.

You and I know that... a politician is always at risk of being stopped and questioned (or harangued), by anyone, at anytime, anywhere. Plus, they get really nervous when people stop questioning them, so they can't win. :haha:

I was only implying these kids don't know, and could have been there to investigate.

Yeah Dana this is a thing for me. When I was in college there were two guys in my class who said, flat out, that they wanted to go into politics. These were the sleaziest, skeeviest people there. True assholes in every way.

They were in Student Government, not because they were interested in student government but because it was an elected position and so they just had to. They were in the service fraternity because it would look good for them on paper. They were business/pre-law.

One of them punched out a security guard his freshman year, and by senior year he was working in security.

The other guy lived on my floor his freshman year, took it upon himself to bed the first chick that would go to his room, within a week of arrival. Immediately upon finishing, he preceded to walk out into the hall where several of us were milling about, and whip his wet dick out to prove he had just done it. For a finale he then loudly proceeded to kick her out of his room.

Probably not everyone who decides they want politics as a career is like that. But I can't get past it when electing people. I want them to have done something real for a while, not just socially climb into a power elite status.

Undertoad;489886 wrote:

The other guy lived on my floor his freshman year, took it upon himself to bed the first chick that would go to his room, within a week of arrival. Immediately upon finishing, he preceded to walk out into the hall where several of us were milling about, and whip his wet dick out to prove he had just done it. For a finale he then loudly proceeded to kick her out of his room.

Wow, you went to school with Newt Gingrich?

I remember all my life
Rainin' down as cold as ice
Shadows of a man
A face through a window
Cryin' in the night
The night goes into

Mornin', just another day
Happy people pass my way
Lookin' in their eyes
I see a memory
I never realized
How happy you made me, oh Mandy

Well, you came and you gave without takin'
But I sent you away, oh Mandy
well, you kissed me and stopped me from shakin'
and I need you today. Oh, Mandy!

I'm standing on the edge of time
I've walked away when love was mine
Caught up in a world of uphill climbin'
The tears are in my mind
And nothin' is rhyming, oh Mandy

Well, you came and you gave without takin'
But I sent you away, oh Mandy
well, you kissed me and stopped me from shakin'
And I need you today, oh Mandy

Yesterday's a dream
I face the mornin'
Cryin' on a breeze
The pain is callin', oh Mandy

Well, you came and you gave without takin'
But I sent you away, oh Mandy
Well, you kissed me and stopped me from shakin'
And I need you today, oh Mandy

You came and you gave without takin'
But I sent you away, oh Mandy
You kissed me and stopped me from shakin'
And I need you!

lol thanks for that Merc:P

For the Americans: a few more bits about Mandy.

Peter Mandelsohn is seen as one of British politics most machiavellian figures. He wasn't just the architect of the New Labour spin machine, he was the shadowy advisor and keeper of the secrets de roi. He's been involved in several scandals and had to resign from the cabinet twice amidst accusations of financial and electoral impropriety. Nothing was ever proved against him, except a few decisions which could be described as unwise, rather than illegal.

He's a slightly sinister fellow who always gives the impression that he knows more about you than you would like him to. Or, at least, that's how he comes across in the media and how he is spoken about.

The triangle of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and Peter Mandelsohn, particularly after John Smith's death when they both wanted to go for the leadership of the Labour Party, reads like high drama. Gordon and Tony had been friends and allies, with Tony as the younger, junior partner. Mandy was a close friend of both. When Tony made it clear he was going for the leadership, Mandy threw his support behind him and Gordon, who had wrongly supposed he had his support, felt himself and his camp betrayed.

Here's a couple of snippets:


The rift as it happened:

Gordon .... you have a problem in not appearing to be the front-runner... You have to either escalate rapidly or you need to implement a strategy to exit with enhanced position, strength and respect."

– Letter from Mandelson to Gordon Brown on May 16, 1994, regarding Brown and Blair's positions following the death of John Smith.

"We've been betrayed."

– Gordon Brown to a friend following receipt of the Mandelson letter

I think I've made an enemy for life. I feel this is a disaster."

– Mandelson to his friend Roger Liddle after he had told Brown not to stand for Labour leadership, 1994

"I love you, but I can destroy you,"

– Mandelson to Brown in transatlantic phone call, 1994

(my favourite)


Bitterness sets in:

Peter asked me for 10p to phone a friend the other day. I said: 'Here, take 20p and ring them all.' When people ask me if I have a close relationship with Mandelson, I answer: 'How would I know? I haven't spoken to him for 18 months."

– Gordon Brown in speech to Tribune rally, 1996

We are not players in some Greek tragedy. We have one overriding responsibility to deliver an election victory, and it is just not fair to all those people who really want such a victory and are working for it, to be casualties of some Titanic but ultimately irrelevant personality feud.

"Have you any conception of how despairing it is for me when the two people that have been closest to me for more than a decade, and who in their different ways are the most brilliant minds of their generation will not lay aside personal animosity and help me win?"

– Tony Blair in letter to Mandelson in May 1996 after Mandelson had stormed out of a meeting with Brown

Now in government:

"I went over to see Gordon in his office... he had a pile of papers and had written in large black letters 'Who will silence Mandelson?'... I said I was fed up being expected to sort out all these feuds and personality clashes."

– Alastair Campbell's diaries, May 2001

Quotes taken from: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/3130259/Peter-Mandelsons-rift-with-Gordon-Brown-In-quotes.html

he's Karl Rove!

No worries DanaC, we got your back....

I hear Mandy is being coached by some experienced people.

*Laughs* Funnily enough I was talking with J about the whole return of Mandy, (aka 'The Prince of Darkness': yes he has been called that. he's also been called 'The Princess of Darkness') and said he was our Karl Rove.