Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin.
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Have I missed anything?
FFS people, the sizzle to steak ratio is off the freakin scale!! What's the difference between a pitbull with lipstick and a smokescreen? -- Nothing.
There is an enormous campaign underway right now to persuade people to act and this campaign has two main sides in opposition. The desired action is to help elect the President and Vice President. Each side of this spectacle is striving mightily to **PERSUADE** the people. These attempts to persuade use these methods (positive and negative):
Logos -- relying upon reasoning and logical consistency of the argument.
Ethos -- relying upon the credibility of the speaker.
Pathos -- relying upon the emotional response of the listener.
These are all used, sometimes together, and each of use (save Spock) responds to all methods, but not equally. I tend to be persuaded most effectively by the logos method. But that is my inclination, not an absolute limitation. I see all kinds of messages being delivered in this season. I get most frustrated when I see misrepresentation, inconsistency, and illogic.
I would rate the current message from Governor Palin this way:
Logos--zero. There has been *no* communication from her, save her introductory speech, from which any analysis of her thoughts can be made. Every day she remains mute she loses credibility (ethos) with me; she's already at zero for content.
Ethos--four. I believe her words and actions, her record, shows some consistency, but she's taken a severe blow to her credibility when I compare her (few) statements to (what I've been able to discern at this point as) the facts.
Pathos--nine. She's a strongly empathetic and charismatic figure. I give her high marks for the power of her message, but not for its effectiveness at persuading me. I hear the potent zingers in her speeches, but because of the low ethos and lower logos weights she carries with me, the zing has no sting.
Frankly I'm sick of hearing so much nothing about her.
I like your paraphrase of the media coverage.
Does the GOP expect to carry "nothing" to the White House?
They haven't put the chip in her neck yet.
Logos 15%
Ethos 20%
Pathos 75%
That's roughly about the weight people give each one when making decisions.
The long wait before she goes in front of the press is totally calculated political strategy.
Cite?
Not that I disagree.
Instead of a cite, I point to... television commercials.
That's what they appeal to, to general audiences.
Logos 15%
Ethos 20%
Pathos 75%
That's roughly about the weight people give each one when making decisions.
The long wait before she goes in front of the press is totally calculated political strategy.
I think your rankings are correct too, but I would be willing to have more conversation about the actual values.
If by "totally calculated political strategy" you mean a "craven pandering attempt at misdirection by bulking up on pathos due to a shameful deficiency of logos", then I would be inclined to agree with you.
I love snarky if-then statements.
Fuck, this whole thread is making me sad.
I have resisted seeing Idiocracy. I'm afraid the people around me laughing at its comedy won't understand my crying at its tragedy.
This is no goddamned way to run a railroad.
Logos 15%
Ethos 20%
Pathos 75%
That's 110%...
Sarah Palin.
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You've been reading too many of tw's posts
Republican Party provides funds to the Democrats via Heart's "Barracuda"
Palin and her people continue to use the song despite Heart's displeasure.
...the song’s co-writer, Roger Fisher (who dated Nancy back in the day), has come up with an ingenious plan to cope with the problem. Fisher is a strong supporter of the Democrats, and has decided to donate some of the royalties from “Barracuda” to Barack Obama. "With my contribution to Obama's campaign, the Republicans are now supporting Obama," he said.
I heard about that. I thought maybe instead they could use ZZ Top, "She's Got Legs" ...
Republican Party provides funds to the Democrats via Heart's "Barracuda"
Palin and her people continue to use the song despite Heart's displeasure.
...the song’s co-writer, Roger Fisher (who dated Nancy back in the day), has come up with an ingenious plan to cope with the problem. Fisher is a strong supporter of the Democrats, and has decided to donate some of the royalties from “Barracuda” to Barack Obama. "With my contribution to Obama's campaign, the Republicans are now supporting Obama," he said.
I love it!
"Sarah Palin's views and values in NO WAY represent us as American women. We ask that our song 'Barracuda' no longer be used to promote her image. The song 'Barracuda' was written in the late 70s as a scathing rant against the soulless, corporate nature of the music business, particularly for women. (The 'barracuda' represented the business.) While Heart did not and would not authorize the use of their song at the RNC, there's irony in Republican strategists' choice to make use of it there."
Anyway, shouldn't this be Bob "
Barracuda" Barr's theme song?
Typical - but very funny too.
I heard about that. I thought maybe instead they could use ZZ Top, "She's Got Legs" ...
I was thinking more like "pearl necklace"
OK I try to avoid this (seeing as I'm not allowed to vote), but i'm just watching her TV interview...
...and I'm a little concerned.
I can understand how the idea of her as VP looks cool -a young woman with an attitude... looks like balls from afar, but is actually just the attitude of an aging cheerleader with republican parnts...
BUT
as prez? remember VP becomes Prez if the Prez is incapacitated -and that's not exacty unlikely....
FFS she thinks she can be a sahm to a downs syndrome baby and VP at the same time -will she be changing diapers as her finger hovers over the red button? Or will she hand iver to nanny -which is fine, but don't call yourself a full-time mom.
I'm not anti women policicians at all -I think a female pres would be an awesome thing for this country -it certainly did wonders for the Uk and I'm not a Thatcher fan. But this woman? no.
You still sound like she can't be both a mother and a VP or President. That is why she has a supporting husband to pick up the slack when she is working, just like any other head of state with children. It is just a role reversal. Hell, people keep forgetting that Pelosi is the mother of 5. No double standard there.
Return of the Mommy Wars
Democrats v. Palin
by Henry Payne
Detroit
"I am shocked," says Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-Wash.), after learning of top Democrats' remarks that Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin is selfishly seeking office at the same time she is mother to a Down syndrome baby. "Their comments are contrary to what women have fought for," continued McMorris Rodgers who 16 months ago gave birth to a son, Cole, diagnosed with Down syndrome. Of all the attacks against Sarah Palin since John McCain named her his running mate August 29, the most vicious have been accusations that Palin is sacrificing family for career--remarks that conjure not signs of change but the reactionary language of a bygone era.
The accusations have been all the more extraordinary because they have come from Democrats and media allies closely identified with women's independence. Republicans have angrily responded that the Democratic offensive is sexist. Fearful of a backlash from women voters, the Obama campaign and others distanced themselves from such remarks--even as Democratic surrogates continued to plant the poisonous seed in the media.
The question of whether a woman must choose between career and family has been taboo in politics. Not one of the politicians interviewed for this article has encountered the question in their own campaigns, or any other for that matter. Indeed, the Democratic veep nominee, Joe Biden, has been praised for heroically raising his two young children as a single father after the death of his first wife, even as he kept his Senate seat and commuted 3 hours every day to his Delaware home.
(continues 2 pages)
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/547thtvz.aspI was surfing when I saw the interview. I was half-laughing to myself, watching her leaning forward, using the interviewer's name over and over, avoiding answers with awkward responses, and figured the footage was from several years ago, and "I bet she is embarrassed to have that airing now". Then I found out it was current. Nope, I'd love to have a woman in office, but not her. Please! I'm beginning to think her main purpose is really for men to say, "We gave you a female in an important office and see what she did? She failed! No more women candidates in major office, your pretty little heads can't handle the pressure or power. Now get back to your kitchens and bedrooms."
I love women! Women rock!
But no, this one does not impress me to the level I would want my future president to impress me.
I really, really, really dislike Sarah Palin on nearly every level. No--on EVERY level. The aging cheerleader business is right on target, monster. An aging, scary, right-wing, pro-gun, anti-choice bitter ex-prom queen with a background in sports reporting? Oh, my. No.
having Palin as veep is like having Brownie head FEMA. a disaster waiting to happen.
Sure, but still... I'd bend her over.
That's the sort of comment I hear all over the place. Seriously, guys, fuckability is not good veep criteria.
Picking her as McCains VP choice seems too gimmicky to me.
As scary as she is regarding every topic, the scariest thing is that McCain picked her over so many qualified candidates just so he could show what a "Maverick" he is.
During the interview I was expecting her to make a beauty pageant speech about how much she loves children and how important world peace is.
And when "Charlie" had to ask her AGAIN if her answer was yes or no, I want to reach through the screen and throttle her!
Just answer "YES" or "NO" you fucking bitch!
That's the sort of comment I hear all over the place. Seriously, guys, fuckability is not good veep criteria.
This may be the greatest political trick, ever! I mean, hell, we all know that when the blood rushes to a man's dick, it leaves his brain. We aren't capable of making good decisions whilst sporting a semi. The people that plant malicious software inside pr0n sites know this...
Don't worry your pretty little head about it, little filly. She's not going to make it anywhere near the White House anyway.
Now get back in there and scrub the toilet.
And when "Charlie" had to ask her AGAIN if her answer was yes or no, I want to reach through the screen and throttle her! Just answer "YES" or "NO" you fucking bitch!
Like any politician ever answers yes or no - puhlease.
I am currently voting not to vote - I can't back either of these tickets in good conscious. This totally sucks - The last two elections I chose the "lesser of two evils." This time I cannot do it - somebody has to do something soon to get my support.
Then please just vote straight third party. This is more of a vote for "neither" than not voting.
I'm not worried that Obama as president means something bad for our country, I'm worried that it really really wont mean anything different for our country. Yes, it would be nice to see the conservative rhetoric eliminated from white house speeches, but I seriously doubt that the real power behind the presidency (read corporate business interests) isnt going to allow the changes that we really need to make.
I think that had an impact when Perot ran back in '96. It indirectly became a vote for Clinton. I really gotta think about this.
I'm worried that it really really wont mean anything different for our country. Yes, it would be nice to see the conservative rhetoric eliminated from white house speeches, but I seriously doubt that the real power behind the presidency (read corporate business interests) is going to allow the changes that we really need to make.
Just hearing a different rhetoric doesn't do it for me. thats one of my biggest issues - I don't think either of them deserve, nor are really qualified to lead the country. How do I support one of them when I feel that way.
Somebody tell me what makes one of these tickets qualified and you cannot give me the "cuz the other one isn't" argument.
Oh and as far as Palin is concerned - the fact that she really isn't connected to Washington is a good thing for me. The fact that she is running with McCain who is totally entrenched there is a bad one.
Fresh blood for the vampire
A beady-eyed McCain gets a boost from the charismatic Sarah Palin, a powerful new feminist -- yes, feminist! -- force. Plus: Obama must embrace his dull side.
Feminist? :headshake
I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a door mat or a prostitute. ~Rebecca West, "Mr Chesterton in Hysterics: A Study in Prejudice," The Clarion, 14 Nov 1913, reprinted in The Young Rebecca, 1982
Oh that's why the rest of the world has female leaders...
In the U.S., the ultimate glass ceiling has been fiendishly complicated for women by the unique peculiarity that our president must also serve as commander in chief of the armed forces. Women have risen to the top in other countries by securing the leadership of their parties and then being routinely promoted to prime minister when that party won at the polls. But a woman candidate for president of the U.S. must show a potential capacity for military affairs and decision-making. Our president also symbolically represents the entire history of the nation -- a half-mystical role often filled elsewhere by a revered if politically powerless monarch.
Funny, it doesn't say anything about women being considered a minority vote. Or the fact that Palin is the first female VP (because of course there must have been loads if the only reason for a woman not becoming President is the military aspect)...
I think this misses the point that by European standards at least, America is a deeply conservative country. The very fact that politician's religious beliefs are important is bewildering to us.
What if he had chosen Condi?
Condi is too close to Bush. She would have been an anchor around his neck.
Forget that part of it...look at the overwhelming difference in qualifications.
But but but...Condi's not as fuckable. [/everyoldmani'vetalkedtointhepastmonth]
What a joke that Palins pick is a milestone (supposedly) for feminism and the 'boys' like her because she's fuckable.
Her looks do nothing for me.
Unfortunately, nor do her qualifications...
or lack thereof.
Or the fact that Palin is the first female VP
Actually, she's not. She's the first female on the Republican ticket, but Geraldine Ferraro was on the Democratic ticket back in the 80s (though of course they lost.)
...and the Libertarians ran a woman for the top spot years ago.
As far as I'm concerned, she's got what I call "Librarian Syndrome".
Which is, if you don't know, where the lady looks completely nerdy, hair tied up, thick-rimmed glasses on, and all quiet. But given a chance, say a few drinks and some manly help, picture them tossing the hair down, throwing the glasses off, and slamming your ass down on a bed and well....you know. That's what I call the 'librarian syndrome'...And it applies for quite a few more people than just Palin. But her especially. Almost...milfish, but creepy in the same.
Actually, she's not. She's the first female on the Republican ticket, but Geraldine Ferraro was on the Democratic ticket back in the 80s (though of course they lost.)
Here's hoping history repeats itself. She is the first politician that scares me. She has no clue about what it takes to be P or VP and she can't answer a question other than repeating her pat speech quotes from the convention. Gibson asks her about the bridge to nowhere lies she told and she goes on and on about how she and McCain need to change DC. Just ignoring the question even when Gibson asks it again.
She is a lying sack of bile and should not be allowed in the Whitehouse as a TOURIST, much less as a resident.
She's what we all fear, then.
Looks like we're on the right track. GW with a pussy.
Here's to four years with a blown out Alaskan snatch. *clink*
Actually, she's not. She's the first female on the Republican ticket, but Geraldine Ferraro was on the Democratic ticket back in the 80s (though of course they lost.)
Apologies. I was too young to be interested in politics at the time.
As far as I'm concerned, she's got what I call "Librarian Syndrome".
I read it was part of the "look" she put together when she got into politics, so as not to put off women voters.
Apologies. I was too young to be interested in politics at the time.
No big deal, I was almost too young to be left alone by myself at the time. :)
Nerds will get the MP references. I guess Brianna's out of luck. ;)
MPFC (or even MP himself) is not solely a nerd-based phenomenon (at least in this country YMMV).
Now if they had released their work with DVD commentary (no, please don't talk about The Holy Grail "commentary") then knowing phrases from that might be a bit much. [COLOR="White"]Like me quoting The League of Gentlemen commentary.[/COLOR]
I just saw a video where Palin couldn't even name a journal that she reads. Wow. I don't think she remotely knows what she is talking about. <<2cents>>
Wow. The Republican party have managed to find a politician who makes George Bush seem positively intellectual.
The sickener with Palin (apart from the fact she appears as dumb as a dumbfuck and twice as dangerous) is that her biggest selling point appears to be the fact she's a feisty, kickass girlie. A feisty, kickass girly who can take the boys on at their own game. A feisty, kickass girlie who can take the boys on at their own game and who'd do more to set back the cause of women's equality than the most rabid, right-wing family-values, misogynist, male politician ever could.
There was a joke in Britain in the early 90s:
Margeret Thatcher did for women's liberation what the Boston Strangler did for door-to-door sales.
Though at least Maggie wasn't an embarrassment to the rest of us when she was on TV. Shameful maybe, but not embarrassing.
*blinks* oooh. Yeah, I'd probably better stop there. Whew, that was close....very nearly went off on a major vent about gender politics....
I don't like what maggiie did politically, but i think she was a fantastic catalyst in breaking sexist stereotypes. yes, she wasa ball-breaker, and very masculine in some ways, but she had kids, she wore skirts, make-up and jewellery and she just led her life the way she damn well pleased and fuck what anyone thought. she was in no way the woman I wanted to be, but I think that she demonstrated that, as a "modern woman" if you didn't want the traditional female role, it wasn't compulsory to fit into the one or two other sterotypes available. you could make new paths.
OMFG! watching the debate.. I'm, sure she said nucular.... twice....
AAAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHH
(prolly thinks it's cute :rolleyes:)
You still sound like she can't be both a mother and a VP or President. That is why she has a supporting husband to pick up the slack when she is working, just like any other head of state with children. It is just a role reversal. Hell, people keep forgetting that Pelosi is the mother of 5. No double standard there.
mother yes
full time no.
how many "other heads of state" have no non-parental help with children? that's what she is (or maybe was) claiming would be the case. if she expects to work presidential hours, she cannot expect to be the mom she describes herself as. that said, I've seen so many more interviews since that I've realised this is totally a moot point. she doesn't think this deeply.
Thatcher is a great person. You may not like her position on things, but from across the pond she is still very well respected.
I'm loving Palin in this "debate"! She's preety much nailing McCain's coffin :D
scarily more of an imitation than a parody
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r36Xc0GG4iQWatching the debate. Palin as the possible leader of the US? Aaaargh! If she uses the word "maverick" one more time, I think I'll puke! :headshake
u can't puke, I stole ur bukkit
OMFG! watching the debate.. I'm, sure she said nucular.... twice....
AAAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHH
(prolly thinks it's cute :rolleyes:)
I heard it, too, on NPR (was in car)---my seventeen year old son looked at me, wide-eyed, and said, "She just said NUCULAR!" and we burst out laughing. If a 17 year old male, who's focus is definitely NOT politics but chicks, notices how dumb this woman is, hopefully others will, too.
My ex-in laws, who don't believe dinosaurs once walked the earth (satan put the dino bones there to "confuse" us) WILL be voting McCain/Palin.
Well, she came off well on the personality front. I'll bet hardly anyone noticed that she named a Civil War general as the commander in Afghanistan. Also, she was snide, condescending, and essentially accused Biden of being an opportunistic coward. I'm sure Biden was very carefully coached not to engage her, so he did not fire back. That took a lot more discipline than I would have credited to him.
She got past her inexperience by speaking in generalities and in many cases ducking the question. Biden did not call her on it.
I do think the part where she wanted to go further in redefining the vice presidency than Cheney has was frightening.
The fact checkers are going to be working overtime on her claims, and some of Biden's too.
plenty to focus on besides her pronunciation. If I remember, Mr Carter had a rather unusual pronunciation as well. Of course he was a shit president, so that probably isn't a comparison she'd want.
Thatcher is a great person. You may not like her position on things, but from across the pond she is still very well respected.
If her politics are anathema to you, it's very hard to call her a great person. I agree that she was a great politician. And I agree with Monster that she was a ground breaker for women in politics in this country. Great person? Hmmmm. I'm not entirely sure she
was a person. Still.
I'll have to look up some clips from the VP debate on YouTube. I'm pleased to hear that Biden didn't rise though.
Well. She wasn't as bad as i was anticipating. Not particularly impressive for someone seeking one of the highest offices in the most powerful nation on earth...but probably better than I could have done :P
I stil don't like her. I still think she's a bitch. But she's not quite the thick-as-pigshit waste of a brain that I thought she was...
On Thatcher: yeah, in some ways she did break down barriers. Unfortunately once in office she set about implementing policies which were extremely detrimental to women in particular. The anti-single mum attitudes hardened up considerably. The idea that if a woman wants to claim benefits she must name the father of her children came from this time. Many of the job protections which were removed (as we all moved to a more flexible working style) were those which mainly affected women (part-time work for example). Froze child benefit for years. Presided over a government that made traditional (patriarchal) family values the cornerstone of their most oppressive legislation (such a the anti-gay stuff) thereby shifting the debate in directions that I consider to be a serious step backwards in terms of gender politics.
Left a legacy that makes it very hard to imagine that this country would be comfortable with a woman PM for a long time to come.
Oh, don't get me wrong, much as I hate her (and I still do) I also admire her.
Left a legacy that makes it very hard to imagine that this country would be comfortable with a woman PM for a long time to come.
I respectfully disagree. I am sure we have more sense than that. Those on the knee-jerk right (who I have to hear when I work in the pub) think she was amazing. Those on the left would rather drink poisoned Kool Aid than deny a politician because of gender.
Oh, don't get me wrong, much as I hate her (and I still do) I also admire her.
So we have a date in Trafalgar Square then?
Yes....but I'll be armed with purple flour.
I too was struck that she said "Nuke-u-lar."
Now, I know this is not a huge deal, except it is. Here is why I believe it is:
Bush has said nuke-u-lar all along. This is not to be attributed to dialect or accent or locality. The word is, clearly, nuclear.
Now, all these years I have wondered: you know someone has HAD to tell Bush that he is mispronouncing a word that he has had occasion to use quite often. You know he has been advised as such. He has never waivered from his mispronunciation. I feel there can only be a handful of reasons for his failure to correct:
1) He really doesn't give a flying rat's ass what is correct and what is not. He'll do and say whatever he damn well pleases and who cares, in fact we can all bite him in the ass if we don't like it. (see: Iraq)
2) He is trying to portray himself as just one of the common folk...see, this is how we talk, us "regular" people. Surely Ma and Pa and Betsy and Johnny from Marsh Lake Ohio will appreciate how really common I am. (see: Palin)
3) He really is just that stupid.
So, yeah it's just a word, but I expect the leader of the free world to strive to do a little better.
I almost choked when Palin said it, over and over, last night.
We had a supply teacher for history when our regular teacher was on maternity leave. I've never hated history (usually one of my favourite subjects) so much.
Why?
We were studying the Russian revolution. And she said commonists. Drove me crazy. Yes, she was Welsh, but that is no excuse. Commonists, over and over again. No wonder I turned out the way I did.
My 7th grade teacher mispronounced Edinburgh. I knew the correct pronunciation from my Bay City Roller days (which I just mentioned in the concert thread, see what I did thar?)
He was a great guy: he said "OK Shawnee, prove it" and pointed at the encyclopedia. Me being me, I jumped up, found it, and showed him.
He was impressed. I think he held back a "well I'll be goddammed!" Instead he smiled and laughed at his mistake oh those many years.
She was honest in at least one way. Right up front she said she wouldn't answer the moderator's questions.
Sarah Palin channels Donald Rumsfeld:
I'm still on the tax thing because I want to correct you on that again. And I want to let you know what I did as a mayor and as a governor. And I may not answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I'm going to talk straight to the American people and let them know my track record also. As mayor, every year I was in office I did reduce taxes. I eliminated personal property taxes and eliminated small business inventory taxes and as governor we suspended our state fuel tax. We did all of those things knowing that that is how our economy would be heated up. Now, as for John McCain's adherence to rules and regulations and pushing for even harder and tougher regulations, that is another thing that he is known for though. Look at the tobacco industry. Look at campaign finance reform.
I liked that: I can answer any damn way I please. Eff you for asking me questions I don't want to answer. Look, a bird.
Shades of Bush.
She did a good job. Better than Biden. I still won't vote for McCraine.
mercy, what did she do better than Biden?
mercy, what did she do better than Biden?
I just thought her presentation was better. She is crisp and has a much better stage presence. He came off as the same ole Washington insider with years in the Congress doing nothing.
This was a pretty good summary:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.htmlI just happened upon this:
PALIN WINS BIG WITH A REAGAN-LIKE FLAIR
She showed originality, charisma and sass - a style that is refreshing and different in our politics. She didn't just win the vice-presidential debate, she showed that she belongs with Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton as among the best communicators of our modern political times.
Her sallies against big government were brilliantly conceived and well executed. Her line that she didn't understand how Washington worked because politicians vote for something right after they vote against it, for example, was just wonderful.
Another classic came when she bit back at moderator Gwen Ifill and opponent Joe Biden and said she'd answer the questions as she wanted to, not necessarily as they wanted her to do.
Gone, long gone, are the worries about how good or well-prepared Sarah Palin is.
I just thought her presentation was better. She is crisp and has a much better stage presence. He came off as the same ole Washington insider with years in the Congress doing nothing.
This was a pretty good summary:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html
Really? I thought he came off as pretty warm and straightforward. I felt like she was pushing too hard. It seemed forced.
He comes off like a wet rag, except when I have seen him on some of those c-span congressional inquires. Then he is like a rabid dog and gives no quarter, I like that in him. I am quite sure that Palin could easily do the same. If they lose this election I put money on her going after Stevens seat.
You could see plain as day Palins coaching. She gets an A+ for remembering her lines but a D- for answering the questions.
At first, I was impressed by her ability to regurgitate on cue what she had been force-fed, but after a while it began to look like a bad case of food poisoning.
:vomitblu:
I think debates in this day and age are completely and utterly pointless. It is nothing more than a dog and pony show. The candidates will certainly not give us real insight into who they are and what they will do if elected while they pose for the cameras and recite memorized position points. The voting public turns the tv on with preconceived ideas about each candidate and 99% of the time they only process what they see and hear in a way which will further support what they already believe.
mercy, what did she do better than Biden?
She did tits and hair better than biden. And lip licking.
I whole heartedly support Barack Obama.
If and when McCain dies and the country is left up to some ditsy ho like Sarah Palin, the United States will have slowly started its decline as a world super power.
I whole heartedly support Barack Obama.
If and when McCain dies and the country is left up to some ditsy ho like Sarah Palin, the United States will have slowly started its decline as a world super power.
Bit late for that prediction mate.
You could see plain as day Palins coaching. She gets an A+ for remembering her lines but a D- for answering the questions.
She gets an A+ for her whole performance. I would give Biden a solid B, but that's about it. He was lackluster.
<Inigo Montoya>You keep using those phrases. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.</Inigo Montoya>
http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/14807
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4870677.ece
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aH.eax8OjzPo&refer=home
I mean exactly what I said. The decline began before this election cycle. IMHO it began with Clinton and has been going down ever since.
I think debates in this day and age are completely and utterly pointless. It is nothing more than a dog and pony show. The candidates will certainly not give us real insight into who they are and what they will do if elected while they pose for the cameras and recite memorized position points. The voting public turns the tv on with preconceived ideas about each candidate and 99% of the time they only process what they see and hear in a way which will further support what they already believe.
I agree with this - but at the same time I have to wonder. How would someone ever know exactly what is going to happen when they get there?
Back in the day of Ross Perot (who I did not support) and after the election that he lost - he was doing an interview on NPR. They asked him if he was upset that he didn't get to be president.
His response "Hell no, not now. Could you imagine? You are in the White House, drinking your morning coffee and reading up on the news. Then all of a sudden - BAM - Jesus Christ shows up in Waco Texas." (This was right during the David Koresh thing in Waco)
What I would like personally - is to have a candidate that shows up to the debates - gives their ideas and what they would like to do when in office - but then state "Ya know what - depending on what shit hits the fan when I get there - this is all subject to change."
- Unless they have a crystal ball and know exactly what is going to happen which I seriously doubt.
That's kind of my point. They go into the debate and spout all of this BS that we don't believe (and neither do they) and the whole time we all know that what we are buying tonight is not what will be delivered on 1-20-09. What they say doesn't matter. If you liked McCain/Palin before this debate then she did a bang up job and exceeded expectations by kicking ol' Joe square in his nuts. If you liked Obama/Biden then Palin was a trite little soccer mom, caught in the headlights, and not very good at answering questions between reciting what was on her flashcards. The truth is that neither version is true or false. Election years generally piss me off because otherwise very intelligent people somehow forget to filter out their own bias when evaluating the candidates' performances.
Yes....but I'll be armed with purple flour.
Does any group besides fathers for justice use purple flour to symbolize equality?
The GOP is beginning to remind me of the 2008 Olympic French swim team that was going to "smash" the American team. When they lost, they said, "it was by a mere fingerlength that we did not win----it means nothing!"
Any republican who doesn't see that Sarah is moronic and that McCain is about to snap needs a reality check. McCain has been looking like a rabid nutjob lately----I'll bet it's due to the Stunning Stupidity of Sarah. someone didn't clue him in properly. She's a phony, know-nothing, dangerous person. Surely, surely, republicans really do know this.
I mean exactly what I said. The decline began before this election cycle. IMHO it began with Clinton and has been going down ever since.
Ah. I thought this was another "get used to Palin" thing.
Never mind.
[youtube]jf1y9s73Nos[/youtube]
Excellent, monster! Just the ticket!
Hahaha. Oh nice one monster:)
"Every sperm is sacred!" love that song.
And now we know why Radar doesn't like her....
Sarah Palin Baby Name Generator :lol:
there was one bit of the SNL Couric interview satire where i thought they took it to far. turns outthat part of the script was verbatim. :eek:
[youtube]zeMypXCUWMw[/youtube]
I gotta say though, I'm reminded of the axim "there's no such thing as bad publicity".... everyone's talking about her, who's talking about whatisname, Obama's sidekick?
Not since the Lloyd Bentsen/Dan Quayle debate have I had occasion to look around and wonder if there are people who only pretended to watch the debate. Seriously? Seriously! What a difference 20 years doesn't make.
I couldn't "watch" watch it -we had it on in the background. Sitting there concentrating fully would have been too painful. besides, I can't vote anyway so it just depresses me...
At first, I was impressed by her ability to regurgitate on cue what she had been force-fed, but after a while it began to look like a bad case of food poisoning.
:vomitblu:
Yeah, it wasn't really "regurgitating on cue", as it was at random, not on cue, and she was reading from index cards.
On this 3x5 card it says I have rabbits
Rabbits! Rabbits, I say!
And now we know why Radar doesn't like her....Sarah Palin Baby Name Generator :lol:
Krinkle Bearcat Palin. lmao!
No she wasn't
She recited them from memory.
Well, she did occasionally glance down at something she had on her podium, but mostly she looked at the camera.
Doesn't really matter. Biden is leaps and bounds above her in knowledge and experience, and that showed in the debate.
Doesn't really matter. Biden is leaps and bounds above her in knowledge and experience, and that showed in the debate.
Doesn't really matter. McCain is leaps and bounds above Obama in knowledge and experience... and he is running for President.
Doesn't really matter. McCain is leaps and bounds above Obama in knowledge and experience... and he is running for President.
I'd rather bet on character and intent.
Here's an interesting fact:
Abe Lincoln served in the Illinois state legislature and then served a single term in the U.S. House before being elected to the presidency.
I think he turned out ok.
Not after the play.....
Right.
Then we get
President Palin.
Where is your puny god to protect you now?
...I knew Abe Lincoln and Obama is no Abe Lincoln...
Has McCain used that one yet?
nah, he's waiting for someone to compare obama to noah or something, lincoln's one of them new-fangled politicians...
...I knew Abe Lincoln and Obama is no Abe Lincoln...
Cute.
But I still think it shows that the 'experience' thing isn't a real issue.
Because there is one exception to the rule? Who do you want performing surgery on you an intern or an experienced surgeon?
Because there is one exception to the rule? Who do you want performing surgery on you an intern or an experienced surgeon?
depends if the surgeou has shaky hands and/or senile dementia...
what? you don't read many medical detective novels? It's always the venerated surgeon who operates after his hands start shaking that did it... and everyone tries to cover up because they feel sorry for or loyal to him....
I think you mean Diagnosis Murder.
Although thinking about it, Dick Van Dyke does a lot more chatting and trotting about and having people try to kill him than any real medical procedures. Probably because he knows he's "venerated" enough to botch it.
Venerated does mean old and creaky, doesn't it?
[COLOR="White"](I do know what it means really. Incontinent.)[/COLOR]
Doesn't really matter. McCain is leaps and bounds above Obama in knowledge and experience... and he is running for President.
You read my mind. in the future. :lol2:
Cute.
But I still think it shows that the 'experience' thing isn't a real issue.
SO then why is everyone who does not like Palin keep bringing it up then?:rolleyes:
Because she also has no brain *and* no education.
1. She can't figure it out for herself. (Obama & Biden can)
2. She hasn't experienced it for herself.(Biden & McCain can)
3. No one has told her the answer. (Obama, Biden & McCain)
I think you mean Diagnosis Murder.
Although thinking about it, Dick Van Dyke does a lot more chatting and trotting about and having people try to kill him than any real medical procedures.
No, I don't, but if it fits under the umbrella we can surely include it :lol: Don't watch much TV/movies, cannot stand Dick Van Dick so definitely did not see that.... sounds like I didn't miss too much. I went through a phase of reading medical-based thrillers and they're all the damn same story, though....
puhlease -
whatevah
Govenor Palin, is that you?
Obama - less experience; better judgement
McCain - More experience, bad judgement and temperment
Biden - More experience, sometimes trips over his own thoughts
Palin - Stupid fucking cunt!
Because there is one exception to the rule? Who do you want performing surgery on you an intern or an experienced surgeon?
It's not a very good analogy.
[LIST=1]
[*]Neither candidate has experience... being president. They both have experience being senators.
[*]John McCain's degree is a BS in midshipmanship
[*]Barack Obama has a B.A. in Political Science with a specialization in International Relations. He also has a magna cum laude degree in law from Harvard.
[/LIST]
with a specialization in International Relations
And he still doesn't know why the POTUS doesn't meet with the leader of Iran?
/voting for him anyway
And he still doesn't know why the POTUS doesn't meet with the leader of Iran?
/voting for him anyway
I don't have a degree in international relations. Tell me.
It's a principle of international relations that when the President meets with heads of state, it makes them more powerful and gives them a gravitas (although I hate that word) that they might not deserve. Meeting with Ahmadinejad would give Ahmadinejad greater power within his country and region. We prefer to see him isolated and less powerful to affect what happens in his region. Actually meeting with him would cause him to be seen as a serious power broker, which he actually isn't. (In Iran, more power is vested in the religious leaders who *actually* have final say.)
This is doubly true in cultures where dialogue is seen as weakness... such as it is in the Middle East.
For example,
after Nancy Pelosi (third in line for POTUS) met with Syria's Assad, he then spent some time shutting down dissidents, because it was believed that he could:
Even Syrians outside the inner circle of activists seem shaken by the conviction, shortly after Ms. Pelosi’s return to Washington, of Syria’s best-known human-rights lawyer, Anwar al-Bunni. Mr. al-Bunni was convicted of “spreading information that could weaken national morale” and “joining an international organization without proper authorization,” for which he was given a five-year prison sentence.
This principle is not well understood, and so when Obama said in a debate that he would meet with certain foreign leaders without any preconditions, it was a gaffe. Since then the Obama campaign has changed that to "negotiate" not "meet" but since people don't really grasp the principle behind it, it remains debate fodder. There's nothing wrong with negotiating with such leaders, but the negotiation happens at the State Dept level, and with brokers, not the actual POTUS. I remain convinced that Obama is merely covering up the gaffe at this point, and if he becomes Pres, the folks at State will explain the principle and business will continue as usual.
There's a new thing going around the net. People are replacing the words of Hitler in the movie "The Downfall"
Here's one I like. They also do one against Obama.
[youtube]Fxm20ZcONOk[/youtube][FONT="]
[/FONT]
It's a principle of international relations that when the President meets with heads of state, it makes them more powerful and gives them a gravitas (although I hate that word) that they might not deserve.
Did you notice how the Venezuelan nut Chaves has gravitas in South America because he neither meets nor negotiates with the Bush administration?
That appears to be an entirely different argument.
I'm sure that depends on viewpoint or on which side of the line you are standing on.
He doesn't want to give Bush undeserved gravitas. ;)
Because she also has no brain *and* no education.
1. She can't figure it out for herself. (Obama & Biden can)
2. She hasn't experienced it for herself.(Biden & McCain can)
3. No one has told her the answer. (Obama, Biden & McCain)
Dammmmmm.... sounds just like a description of Obama.:eyebrow:
Obama - less experience; better judgement
McCain - More experience, bad judgement and temperment
Biden - More experience, sometimes trips over his own thoughts
Palin - Stupid fucking cunt!
*bows* awesome.
And he still doesn't know why the POTUS doesn't meet with the leader of Iran?
/voting for him anyway
He doesn't know why because there is no legitimate reason for us not to meet with the leaders of sovereign nations, especially when we want favors from them...like not exercising their sovereign right to develop any weapons they choose.
Here's how sane people like Obama and I do it. First you try to talk. Only when that fails, do you take actions against them like embargoes. As a very final, last resort when all other avenues have been exhausted, then you exercise military force. You never place Americans in the line of fire unless everything else has been tried first.
The California Democratic Party came up with a brilliant way to "welcome" Sarah Palin to her rally in LA on Saturday - They rented a giant electronic billboard across the street from the rally, and posted questions for Palin submitted via text message.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/762520The California Democratic Party came up with a brilliant way to "welcome" Sarah Palin to her rally in LA on Saturday - They rented a giant electronic billboard across the street from the rally, and posted questions for Palin submitted via text message.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/762520
Having a bit of trouble seeing it, but I suspect she looked at the billboard and said "Mr Billboard, I may not answer the questions you want me to answer in the way you want me to answer them, but I'm going to talk (switches gaze to tv camera) straight to the American people..." Music swells, Palin flashes bright smile, winks, fireworks go off behind her...annnnnnnnnnnnddddd... we're out.
I'm not voting for someone who is winking at me. That's bar behavior! Seriously, though, folks---is she going to wink at Putin? Will it work?
It'd work on Sarcozy.....
you all said you supported the candidate of change...
Cute pic of Palin in college. Won't sway my vote, but she is/was a cutie.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/ny-582656720080902130909,0,6757468.photoShe's been stirring up a lot of hateful rhetoric in her supporters lately and they are loving her for it. Shes got her finger perfectly pressed on the lowest-common -denominator nerve, and working it to perfection. Thats scary.
Do you think Obama's a terrorist? Or a traitor? Cuz they do. Would you call out for his death? Cuz that has happend in one of her rallies.
Its insane.
That picture reminds me of ads for non-reflective glasses.
HAHAHAHA Nah - I'm voting for all non incumbents - I no longer care who is qualified or not - they are all liars - ALL OF THEM. In the event of two non incumbents... I'm flipping a coin. Srsly - I'm that fed up.
Do you think Obama's a terrorist? Or a traitor? Cuz they do.
ALL of 'em???
Did you like poll them or something?
No :o
But some do.
[youtube]KjxzmaXAg9E[/youtube]
Another example...
[youtube]itEucdhf4Us[/youtube]
I tried to watch, but my slap reflex started to kick in...
I seriously want to slap the snot out of some people. I like how they make their assertions with that smug look like they think they're really smart and in the know.
Grrrrrr
Those people should have their voter registration taken away. People THAT effed up should not be allowed to vote :headshake
Do you think Obama's a terrorist? Or a traitor? Cuz they do. Would you call out for his death? Cuz that has happend in one of her rallies.
Its insane.
No different than the bloggers and posters on Daily Koz or Huffington Post. Who cares. It is politics.
Very different.
Though I don't read Huffington Post, so I might have missed it.
So much ignorance, so little time.
The bartender at my club told me to stay on the OTHER side of the bar from my old man buddies who had gotten on politics. He was laughing "Shawnee...don't even go over there...YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED" because he knows how fired up I get. :blush:
Very different.
Though I don't read Huffington Post, so I might have missed it.
No different.
Palin did not cut funding for special needs education in Alaska by 62 percent. She didn’t cut it at all. In fact, she increased funding and signed a bill that will triple per-pupil funding over three years for special needs students with high-cost requirements.
She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a "What if?" question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin's first term.
She was never a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group that wants Alaskans to vote on whether they wish to secede from the United States. She’s been registered as a Republican since May 1982.
Palin never endorsed or supported Pat Buchanan for president. She once wore a Buchanan button as a "courtesy" when he visited Wasilla, but shortly afterward she was appointed to co-chair of the campaign of Steve Forbes in the state.
Palin has not pushed for teaching creationism in Alaska's schools. She has said that students should be allowed to "debate both sides" of the evolution question, but she also said creationism "doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."
Is that a real photo of Sarah Palin holding a rifle and wearing a bikini? No.
Did Sarah Palin make rape victims pay for their own rape kits? No.
Is Palin's child with Downs Syndrome not her child but the child of her daughter? No.
http://search.bootnetworks.com/search/?page=1&keyword=palinThe very fact the a VP candidate has
ever asked once, much less three times whether is was possible to ban books "if the need arose", would be enough to turn me off of a candidate.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.aspSo Merc, are you saying that this strategy of inspiring full-blown and fully-expressed displays of hate and anger ( which is what Sarah's rallies are doing) is acceptable to you?
God I hope not.
Stick a turban and beard onto the ones shouting kill him and you gots yerself a jihad!
So Merc, are you saying that this strategy of inspiring full-blown and fully-expressed displays of hate and anger ( which is what Sarah's rallies are doing) is acceptable to you?
God I hope not.
No, what I have stated is that both sides do it and it has become mainstream political manuvering. As well as the idea that Obama or McCain can promise things to the electorate that they can't deliver.
No, what I have stated is that both sides do it and it has become mainstream political manuvering. As well as the idea that Obama or McCain can promise things to the electorate that they can't deliver.
True 'dat. You'll have a bigger impact on which way the country goes by voting carefully for your senators and congressmen and communicating with them frequently. They seem to be more honest if they know you're watching.
True 'dat. You'll have a bigger impact on which way the country goes by voting carefully for your senators and congressmen and communicating with them frequently. They seem to be more honest if they know you're watching.
THAT is the point. We agree. Now how do we tell the masses that at nearly every lecture by either one of those two clowns (Obama and McCain) that everytime they open their mouths and say, "I am going to get you affordable health care for all the uninsured.", or "I am going to tax the large Corps" or "I am going to get you relief from your mortage foreclosure.", that it is all BS. None of them CAN DO ANYTHING. Only Congress can do it and there are few bills that make it to law that are not filled with pork or have not been significantly altered due to the influence of lobbiests and special interest groups working the elected officials over. Nothing can be done without CONGRESS. Who becomes president is actually not nearly as important as who runs congress.
Here's my prediction of the election results.
With some exceptions (e.g. Florida, Kansas), I think it will break down approximately like this:
Confederate states = McCain
Union states = Obama
Union territories = McCain
Stick a turban and beard onto the ones shouting kill him and you gots yerself a jihad!
Doesn't require a turban. These are religious zealots; it's already a
holy war to them.:headshake
Did Sarah Palin make rape victims pay for their own rape kits? No.
Of course she didn't. The mayor doesn't bill rape victims for the cost of the forensic evidence collection. What the mayor does do is appoint the police chief, Charlie Fannon, after firing his predecessor. Then Charlie Fannon, chief of police, does this:
"In the past, we've charged the cost of exams to the victims' insurance company when possible," then-chief Charlie Fannon told the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman, the local newspaper. "I just don't want to see any more burden put on the taxpayer."
Fannon told the Frontiersman that the tests would cost the department up to $14,000 per year. He said he would rather force rapists to pay for the tests, not taxpayers.
Let the record show that this is an example of the rare and precious "executive experience" that Sarah Palin, alone among all four candidates for executive office in this national race, can claim.
Of course, mere Senators can only claim to work on legislation, crafting laws, supporting some, opposing others. Like in 2005 when the Congress passed a law requiring states to provide rape exams free of charge or reimburse victims their costs. This is all the Senators running for executive office can claim on the subject:
The Senate version of the legislation that included the rape-exam provision was sponsored by Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware, the Democratic vice presidential nominee. Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama was one of 58 co-sponsors; Republican presidential nominee John McCain was not.
From here.For what its worth
From Here
At least since September 8 the extreme left has been pushing a lie that Governor, then Mayor, Sarah Palin "charged rape victims for rape kits" performed upon them in the Alaskan town of Wasilla. The charge stems from a May 22, 2000 article in the local Wasilla paper The Frontiersman and has been spun from a comment made by the Wasilla Police Chief. This comment was somehow made into a Sarah Palin policy. Evidence of the incident, though, shows no involvement by Palin at all. Still, many Old Media outlets continue to keep illegitimately linking this rape kit billing claim to Sarah Palin, even though the truth is easily discovered.
As mentioned first up was The Frontiersman story from 2000. In that story Police Chief Fannon was quoted as standing against legislation that would force local municipalities to pick up the costs of rape kits being performed. In the interview Fannon said that, upon conviction, he favored the criminals being charged for the costs.
As usual it all depends upon who's Kool Aid you are drinking.
Palin has not pushed for teaching creationism in Alaska's schools. She has said that students should be allowed to "debate both sides" of the evolution question, but she also said creationism "doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."
I've found the same headlines. This one is less obviously wrong, but more importantly wrong. My objection goes to the proposition that "the evolution question" even has a side that creationism can represent.
I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll just say this: Someone who says the evolution question deserves to include creationism doesn't know what they're talking about. It is a ridiculous mixing of two valid independent subjects of inquiry. But they have no business being compared by the same criteria. You might as well have
this. I would add a fifth complaint, that it's impossible to scientifically measure, by weight a person's religious beliefs.
When asked during a televised debate in 2006 about evolution and creationism, Palin said, according to the Anchorage Daily News: "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."
In a subsequent interview with the Daily News, Palin said discussion of alternative views on the origins of life should be allowed in Alaska classrooms. "I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum," she said.
"It's OK to let kids know that there are theories out there. They gain information just by being in a discussion."
Discuss, sure. Gain information, I'm all for it. Treating creationism as a scientific subject, preposterous.
Doesn't require a turban. These are religious zealots; it's already a holy war to them.:headshake
These people look like people I might run into at my gorcery store. Just normal folk.
..And ~50% of the country voted for Dubya the second time around. :3_eyes:
For what its worth From Here
At least since September 8 the extreme left has been pushing a lie that Governor, then Mayor, Sarah Palin "charged rape victims for rape kits" performed upon them in the Alaskan town of Wasilla. The charge stems from a May 22, 2000 article in the local Wasilla paper The Frontiersman and has been spun from a comment made by the Wasilla Police Chief. This comment was somehow made into a Sarah Palin policy. Evidence of the incident, though, shows no involvement by Palin at all. Still, many Old Media outlets continue to keep illegitimately linking this rape kit billing claim to Sarah Palin, even though the truth is easily discovered.
As mentioned first up was The Frontiersman story from 2000. In that story Police Chief Fannon was quoted as standing against legislation that would force local municipalities to pick up the costs of rape kits being performed. In the interview Fannon said that, upon conviction, he favored the criminals being charged for the costs.
As usual it all depends upon who's Kool Aid you are drinking.
Ok, let's compare Kool Aid recipies, shall we? I would contend that USA Today is more neutral than NewsBusters.org
From Newsbusters.org 's about us page:
About NewsBusters.org
Welcome to NewsBusters, a project of the Media Research Center (MRC), the leader in documenting, exposing and neutralizing liberal media bias.
In August of 2005, with the guidance of Matthew Sheffield and Greg Sheffield, the creators of RatherBiased.com, the MRC launched the NewsBusters blog to provide immediate exposure of liberal media bias, insightful analysis, constructive criticism and timely corrections to news media reporting.
Taking advantage of the MRC's thorough and ongoing tracking of liberal media bias, including a wealth of documentation and an archive of newscast video dating back 18 years, we aim to have NewsBusters play a leading role in blog media criticism by becoming the clearinghouse for all evidence of liberal media bias by joining to this formidable information store the contributions of already-established netizens as well as those who want to join in the web revolution.
This is Rumors and Truth material, not Non Partisan Sanity Check material. Consider the source!
So, let's go to the
original document for all these stories, written long before Palin became a shooting star.
Wasilla Police Chief Charlie Fannon does not agree with the new legislation, saying the law will require the city and communities to come up with more funds to cover the costs of the forensic exams.
In the past weve charged the cost of exams to the victims insurance company when possible. I just dont want to see any more burden put on the taxpayer, Fannon said.
According to Fannon, the new law will cost the Wasilla Police Department approximately $5,000 to $14,000 a year to collect evidence for sexual assault cases.
Ultimately it is the criminal who should bear the burden of the added costs, Fannon said.
The forensic exam is just one part of the equation. Id like to see the courts make these people pay restitution for these things, Fannon said.
Fannon said he intends to include the cost of exams required to collect evidence in a restitution request as a part of a criminals sentencing.
Look at the
facts presented here. Palin was mayor of Wasilla at the time. The sitting police chief was fired by her and replaced with Charlie Fannon. That's *her* guy making the quotes above. She chose him, using her executive experience. He's implementing her vision of what Wasilla should be. That's not Kool Aid. That's bedrock fact.
Let's look at what he said. He says he's opposed to the new law. And, insultingly, says that the criminal should pay for the cost as part of the sentencing. That's brilliant. Assuming you get a conviction. As the father of a daughter, I **DEFINITELY** don't want her raped, and, god forbid she is raped, that she's billed for the police work to prosecute the criminal. EVEN IF THE F*CKER GETS AWAY WITH IT. Come on, Fannon is ready to bill the criminal upon conviction? What if he's not convicted? The "victim" is billed? gtfoh.
I wonder how this compares with evidence collection procedures for other crimes.
Did you get a bill from the state patrol for battery usage on their radar gun?
I've found the same headlines. This one is less obviously wrong, but more importantly wrong. My objection goes to the proposition that "the evolution question" even has a side that creationism can represent.
I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll just say this: Someone who says the evolution question deserves to include creationism doesn't know what they're talking about. It is a ridiculous mixing of two valid independent subjects of inquiry. But they have no business being compared by the same criteria. You might as well have this. I would add a fifth complaint, that it's impossible to scientifically measure, by weight a person's religious beliefs.
Discuss, sure. Gain information, I'm all for it. Treating creationism as a scientific subject, preposterous.
The point of this is that it matters not about her ability to qualify for the position of VP. People love to make a big deal out of this very hazy quite debatable event. What is the fear? she is going to mandate some change to the Constitution? She is going to mandate teaching of Intelligent Design in our schools? People said the same things about Kennedy and his religious affiliation with the Catholic church. She has no power as VP to do anything. Even as president the wedge issues like gay marriage have no merit. These are all states rights issues. Presidents don't make the law.
So, let's go to the original document for all these stories, written long before Palin became a shooting star.
Originally Posted by Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman
Wasilla Police Chief Charlie Fannon does not agree with the new legislation, saying the law will require the city and communities to come up with more funds to cover the costs of the forensic exams.
In the past weve charged the cost of exams to the victims insurance company when possible. I just dont want to see any more burden put on the taxpayer, Fannon said.
According to Fannon, the new law will cost the Wasilla Police Department approximately $5,000 to $14,000 a year to collect evidence for sexual assault cases.
Ultimately it is the criminal who should bear the burden of the added costs, Fannon said.
The forensic exam is just one part of the equation. Id like to see the courts make these people pay restitution for these things, Fannon said.
Fannon said he intends to include the cost of exams required to collect evidence in a restitution request as a part of a criminals sentencing.
Look at the facts presented here. Palin was mayor of Wasilla at the time. The sitting police chief was fired by her and replaced with Charlie Fannon. That's *her* guy making the quotes above. She chose him, using her executive experience. He's implementing her vision of what Wasilla should be. That's not Kool Aid. That's bedrock fact.
Ok what you have done here is what most of the liberal press have done and tried to make a lose association between what her "choosen" chief said and what she actually said or did. That is at least, like most of the press has reported, misleading, actually I think it is total and utter BS. Her chief said it. Not her. Blaming the comments of the chief as if they were her policy is stupid. Hell if every mayor in any major city could control the comments of the police chief they would have them all on a string like a puppet. That isn't going to happen.
Here's my prediction of the election results.
With some exceptions (e.g. Florida, Kansas), I think it will break down approximately like this:
Confederate states = McCain
Union states = Obama
Union territories = McCain
Here's the way I see it going down...
Then we are decided.
---
[COLOR=Blue]I just had a thought: Perhaps we could shorten Obama/Biden to O'Biden and McCain/Palin to McPalin. Wouldn't that simplify things?[/COLOR]
McPalin ... the new shish-kebab snack from MacDonalds!
Recipes anyone?
I find this interesting. This is the first time in recent history that the first name of a VP candidate appears as the lead on a campaign sign.
Does anyone remember ever seeing "Al!" signs for Clinton/Gore or "George!" signs for Reagan/Bush?
I find it funny that the Republicans were bitching about Obama the celebrity and then went out and found one of their own.
BTW, I think this sign design is new because the neighbor had a McCain/Palin sign up until a few days ago.
Technically, these yard signs are illegal according to our homeowners association bylaws. I argued the case in one of our committees years ago that they should be allowed and there was a verbal decision made to allow them. Unfortunately, it may still be technically a violation and my wife is the President of the association, so I feel I need things to be clearer in order to respond with my own Obama sign.:(
I think it is great. They are comparing the two canidates with the least experience on par.
I feel I need things to be clearer in order to respond with my own Obama sign.
I'm sorry, don't you mean your
Joe! sign?
October 11, 2008
Lefty bloggers fall for fake Palin SAT
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/10/lefty_bloggers_fall_for_fake_p.html
Oh God this is rich, The Daily Kos at the forefront again. :D
The forgery appears to have originated with a purported "Background Report" on Palin that was posted anonymously to a Web site. It was swiftly swallowed blogs such as Daily Kos ("it sure seems credible"), and Wonkette ("a 425 verbal sounds about right"). None of them apparently noticed or cared that the front page of the "report" revealed it to be an obvious fake: The document, which features purported DMV records from 2006, bears a "RECEIVED" stamp dated "6-24-03."Is the received stamp supposed to be for the whole thing or just the first page?
There is DMV entries in December 2004, for 2005 and 2006 ATV vehicles.
It also contains a bit about Bristol Palin's baby daddy, making statements on his MySpace page.
I read DailyKos regularly - multiple times a day, usually.
Not once did anything about Palin's SATs appear on the front page NOR within the top-recommended diaries.
judging dailykos for some of the way-down-the-ladder shit-slinging is like judging the Cellar on the basis of Radar, tw, UG, and your
homophobic drivel, merc, and ignoring the whole rest of the forum.
dailykos is great if you simply want to get the most extreme liberal slant on anything. Just the exact opposite of the Rush Limbaugh types. Try to find something that isn't so completely biased so that you can make your own decisions based on facts, something those of that ilk are severely lacking. Lemme guess, you read moveon.org too.
It seems like Obama is winning so I wonder why all the 'will race effect the election'? type of talk. If he is winning isn't it a moot point?
Sarah who?
It seems like Obama is winning so I wonder why all the 'will race effect the election'? type of talk. If he is winning isn't it a moot point?
Sarah who?
Not if you count the "Bradley effect" theory that states that actual votes for minority candidates running against Caucasian candidates are lower than polled.
No different.
She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a "What if?" question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin's first term.
She was fired, and rehired after public outrage. She eventually quit.
She was never a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group that wants Alaskans to vote on whether they wish to secede from the United States. She’s been registered as a Republican since May 1982.
They say she was, and she did address their convention. She could have just been humoring them, though.
Palin has not pushed for teaching creationism in Alaska's schools. She has said that students should be allowed to "debate both sides" of the evolution question, but she also said creationism "doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."
"has not pushed" was probably the best way you could have phrased that, as she both called for teaching creationism, and promised not to push it during her campaign. Of course, even the idea of "both sides" is problematic in itself, as "both" implies "two", and once magic is allowed, there are infinite possible "sides" to the "debate".
Did Sarah Palin make rape victims pay for their own rape kits? No.
During her term, under her chosen police chief, the bills for rape kits, and no other police activity, were sent to the victims' insurance. So, Yes.
As for Kos, on a site where anyone can post anything I wouldn't have mentioned anything if you'd restricted your original comment to posters. But you included bloggers, implying some level of support from the Daily Kos iteslf.
Oh God this is rich, The Daily Kos at the forefront again. :D
So we have an example of "
The Daily Kos at the forefront again." That diary entry has five reccommendations, and is full of comments debunking the story. To show up outside of the archives for more than a few minutes, you need hundreds of reccommendations. So not only did this forefront issue not come from Kos bloggers, it didn't even attract much support from the posters.
And none of your examples rise to the level of "terrorist", which was what your original "no different" was a response to.
Perhaps Merc's point was whether or not Palin created the policy to charge for the kits. To that, the answer is no - It was one of her predecessors - not her. Who actually started this policy? Look it up.
They seem to want to make it appear as though she implemented the policy - that is wrong.
Can we once and for all put this to rest and stop playing the semantics games?
Crikey me - I never even heard about the rape kits thing.
Sorry, because this isn't germaine to the thread (as it might not be a Palin introduction) but are you seriously telling me that the richest country in the world makes women reporting rape pay to have it proved? Or that it was even an issue up for discussion?
If that's the case - and I admit I may have the wrong end of the stick - (nasty pun only mildly intended) then it's like my Mum says - the rich stay rich by holding onto their money.
Here is a
link for you to read about it. Read it carefully.
Here is an even better one.
Thank you.
There is no conclusive proof that Palin supported this, but I am still appalled by it.
I appreciate the fact that "they" were determined to recou the costs from the insurance companies rather than individual women, but it still shocks me that gathering evidence is considered differently in a sexual crime than a burglary. They don't show that on CSI!
She was fired, and rehired after public outrage. She eventually quit.They say she was, and she did address their convention. She could have just been humoring them, though."has not pushed" was probably the best way you could have phrased that, as she both called for teaching creationism, and promised not to push it during her campaign. Of course, even the idea of "both sides" is problematic in itself, as "both" implies "two", and once magic is allowed, there are infinite possible "sides" to the "debate". During her term, under her chosen police chief, the bills for rape kits, and no other police activity, were sent to the victims' insurance. So, Yes.
As for Kos, on a site where anyone can post anything I wouldn't have mentioned anything if you'd restricted your original comment to posters. But you included bloggers, implying some level of support from the Daily Kos iteslf. So we have an example of "The Daily Kos at the forefront again." That diary entry has five reccommendations, and is full of comments debunking the story. To show up outside of the archives for more than a few minutes, you need hundreds of reccommendations. So not only did this forefront issue not come from Kos bloggers, it didn't even attract much support from the posters.
And none of your examples rise to the level of "terrorist", which was what your original "no different" was a response to.
You need to do more research, much of that is bull shit that does not directly involve Palin. Another prime example of KOS rumor picked up and run by the liberal press is the SAT score Scandle.
You need to do more research, much of that is bull shit that does not directly involve Palin
All of it involves Palin. The rape kits may or may not directly involve her, but the rest do. None of it is bull shit.
All of it involves Palin. The rape kits may or may not directly involve her, but the rest do. None of it is bull shit.
If Palin was so innocent, then she would have scored significant political points by aggressively denying those accusations. Then use those accusations as proof that she was being smeared. Instead Palin was silent.
Palin, who is right there continuously with McCain and his campaign staff, says nothing? Instead we only get this tacit denial from the campaign's communications director?
In a statement, Jill Hazelbaker, communications director for Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign, said that "to imply that Gov. Palin is or has ever been an advocate of charging victims for evidence gathering kits is an utter distortion of reality."
"As her record shows, Gov. Palin is committed to supporting victims and bringing violent criminals to justice," Hazelbaker said. "She does not, nor has she ever believed that rape victims should have to pay for an evidence gathering test."
Either the campaign is so devoid of political savvy as to not have Palin deny this, or the campaign has good reasons to fear further press investigations. Well the McCain campaign also cannot trust Palin to campaign without McCain. Numerous reasons why Palin does not deny this accusation - and all suggest negative conclusions about Palin.
If the problem did not exist, a politically savvy Palin would have personally done the denials AND earned political points for doing so. She did not or could not. Either way, that is the damning fact – just another problem with the right wing’s perfect choice.
Even George Jr was not so dumb as to be kept mute on the campaign trail.
*Blinks* that's a really good point tw.
All of it involves Palin. The rape kits may or may not directly involve her, but the rest do. None of it is bull shit.
Total and utter Bull Shit.
If you get the candidate to say the words "rape kit" then you win the election.
Perhaps there is no way to conclusively prove it either way - as was the case. Perhaps the utter denials served no point other than drawing more attention to a non-issue. Perhaps - perhaps not...
Who started this policy? Apparently it was not Palin. How long has this policy been in place? Is this practice common elsewhere? Where else is it still happening? Perhaps it would be better to proactively address those issues elsewhere. Perhaps - perhaps not...
Damning questions that are not being asked by the media. Why is that?
"Daily Kos"
The rumor mill, ala, liberal news source.
It's interesting to hear these two Alaskan "women-on-the-street" talk about Palin:
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-113360It's interesting to hear these two Alaskan "women-on-the-street" talk about Palin:
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-113360
Two girls who barely have started their periods? Good source... :rolleyes:
Q: Where does Palin stand on foreign policy?
A: Dunno, Alaska.
That video was worth about as much as asking two guys in Deer stands what they think of gun rights.
I see mercy and cm as apologists for the actions of the police chief, when making an association with Sarah Palin.
I don't see the same distance being granted to Barak Obama when he's being tarred with an association with Bill Ayers.
This is despite the fact that Palin *hired* Fannon, Fannon reported directly to Palin and no such hierarchical relationship exists between Obama and Ayers at all.
Why the different reactions to a pair of relationships?
I see your double standards and raise you one case of buyers guilt with Obama.
Comedy is down the hall....
What "buyers guilt" are you talking about?
btw, we agree about the "double standards" at least.
Total and utter Bull Shit.
In the absence of any elaboration, I'm going to have to consider your frequent "bull shit" as an ungracious way of conceding the point.
I see your double standards and raise you one case of buyers guilt with Obama.
Cute but not an answer to V's question.
I see what you did thar.
Whoa there V - I'm not apologizing for anyone. I offered another "possible" scenario for their/her reaction relating to a prior post.
I still believe in what I posted. I do not "know" what happened nor does anyone else. I must say though - that I do not weigh the two situations equally.
Her response to the findings, in my opinion, is appalling and outright wha wha WHAT THE ____????
"I'm very, very pleased to be cleared of any legal wrongdoing, any hint of any kind of unethical activity there," she told reporters.
Actually, the bipartisan report said just the opposite. It found that Mrs. Palin and her husband, Todd, repeatedly violated state ethics laws by browbeating subordinates to dismiss Trooper Michael Wooten, who had been involved in an ugly divorce with Mrs. Palin's sister, and by using state employees to score points in a family feud.
"I'm very, very pleased to be cleared of any legal wrongdoing, any hint of any kind of unethical activity there," she told reporters.
OJ was pleased to be cleared too. The first time, anyway. :rolleyes:
apologist
Main Entry:
apol·o·gist
Pronunciation:
\ə-ˈpä-lə-jist\
Function:
noun
: one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something
ApologIST not apologIZE.
classicman, I see your point about the quote you posted. To me, that is just a plain lie.
Trying to boldface lie her way out of her responsibilities. I don't want that. To me, it carries substantial weight because it is first hand. Her words. They're unambiguously wrong. Not taken out of context, not twisted, just flat wrong. And repeatedly so. Also, it's fresh. This is something that is happening now, current events, not something when she was in the second grade fact checking Biden's congressional record against his rhetoric. Also, it's a big damn deal as an indicator of what kind of action I can expect from her in similar circumstances in the future.
This is pretty damning.
V, I agree with you. It is very very damning!
Also, it's a big damn deal as an indicator of what kind of action I can expect from her in similar circumstances in the future.
This is pretty damning.
Well doesn't it make her the perfect replacement for Cheney? :haha:
Not 'til she shoots someone in the face.
:lol:
And she smoked pot! :eek:
But it was legal.
In the absence of any elaboration, I'm going to have to consider your frequent "bull shit" as an ungracious way of conceding the point.
Not important to me.
Well doesn't it make her the perfect replacement for Cheney? :haha:
Not 'til she shoots someone in the face.
:lol:
See here!Comedy is down the hall....
Sorry - couldn't resist :o)
I see your double standards and raise you one case of buyers guilt with Obama.
Comedy is down the hall....
What "buyers guilt" are you talking about?
btw, we agree about the "double standards" at least.
[Quote=BigV]Comedy is down the hall....
Sorry - couldn't resist :o)[/QUOTE]
Until now, I had no reason whatsoever to think that classicman and TheMercenary were the same person.
wtf?
I saw Cindy McCain in a soundbyte yesterday. It was so precious: they taught her to use the word "maverick" and she applied it to Sarah, not John. It was sooooooooo cute.
The bears on tricycles never did show. :(
Do they not know most of us are making fun of the use of that word?
she reminds me of the nightmare teacher you had in high school. The one who is syrupy sweet on the outside, but who will fuck your grade everytime for minor shit.
she reminds me of the nightmare teacher you had in high school. The one who is syrupy sweet on the outside, but who will fuck your grade everytime for minor shit.
You are not the only one
who thinks so.
Comedy is down the hall....
What "buyers guilt" are you talking about?
btw, we agree about the "double standards" at least.
See here!
Until now, I had no reason whatsoever to think that classicman and TheMercenary were the same person.
wtf?
You weren't referring to a joke in post #242?
Ah. Thanks. I see now that you were suggesting that I follow my own tongue in cheek advice to take my attempts at comedy down the hall.
I misunderstood your post to say that you were apologizing ("Sorry...") for the post that generated my response that you quoted.
All clear now.
No prob. I tend to be the one misreading things so I read and reread and was still at "WTF am I missing?" - no harm no foul.
BTW progress was made today.
