McCain's Running mate
Will she help or hinder ?
It's official:
On August 29, the Associated Press reported that "speculation [has] moved to [Palin as a] darkhorse" pick for the vice president running mate slot by presumptive Republican nominee John McCain.[2] The CNBC news service is now reporting that Palin will in fact be the GOP vice-presidential nominee.[3]
HINDER - This is the worst choice he could have made next to Cheney. How is a 2 friggin year Gov. from Alaska gonna help? WTF has she done? Pro-Life, NRA ... far right wing bible thumper. Or so I hear...
McCain's ratings will DROP after this decision.
The campaign will get to define her, since nobody outside of Alaska knows her. That is smart, it will help. This assumes he goes with what-s-her-name. :)
I think it well help a lot. She is one tuff cookie and lives the life by it. I would welcome to see her on the ticket. Still not sure who I will vote for but it was a good choice.
Her story here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin
**crosses off the 'Obama is inexperienced' argument**
Is this his answer to Obama not choosing Hillary? "I'll get those Merkins a woman!"
Other than that I don't know enough to comment, and am looking forward to opinions expressed here.
If classic is right, the Hillary crowd won't like this lady.
She has a very tough reputation for going against the grain and status quo. That is a good quality. She is a very interesting mix of a person with a myriad of experiences. She is definitely a person from the masses who worked for where she is today. Definitely not an elitist.
She minored in politics and she was a sports reporter? After reading the Wiki link I just can't help writing "Where's The Beef?"
Minority? Check
Not ancient? Check
DC outsider? Check
"Maverick"? Check
What did you guys expect? Most of the other big potentials were either tied to the Bush camp somehow (that's bad) or would turn the conservative base off even more (also bad). Inexperience is Obama's shortcoming, not McCain's so picking an old school DC person would have gained nothing.
I don't know enough about her to say if I like her or not, but this makes sense if you are looking for a complimentary VP candidate.
Definitely not an elitist.
Is the elitist label sticking to the black kid from the single parent home? McCain's back story screams elitist but the POW thing gives him cover. Is Biden an elitist? I don't know his story.
1984 Miss Alaska runner-up! I might have to change my vote.
She minored in politics and she was a sports reporter? After reading the Wiki link I just can't help writing "Where's The Beef?"
I assume her people helped clean out the rats among Alaska's long-time politicians.
I should have prefaced my comments with I can see she is a tough lady, but where is the experience? The word going around in my mind is arm candy and I am not trying to be derogatory here but I think this choice is way out in "right" field
Well, the trophy wife is looking worse for wear. There could be an eye candy angle.
Disclaimer: This is not my opinion (yet) but that of a client who just stopped by.
Obama/Biden - The youthful pretty face that can talk about change, backed up by someone who's been around the block a time or two and has the scalps to prove it.
McCain/Palin - The old warhorse who knows his was around the issues and the system backed up by someone who can talk about new ideas and is all about the change.
Eh, I say show me some ideas and let me decide.
Is the elitist label sticking to the black kid from the single parent home? McCain's back story screams elitist but the POW thing gives him cover. Is Biden an elitist? I don't know his story.
I didn't really mean to single Obama out in that statement. I meant to single out Obama, McCain, and Biden. She is not a D.C. insider. She is home grown, raised, and has worked in Alaska on the land. For that alone I give her two thumbs up. And on top of that the VP choice for either Obama or McCain is very important, in case neither of them makes it through their term.
She does a lot to reinforce his, now shaky, maverick label.
She does a lot to reinforce his, now shaky, maverick label.
How's that?
She really is an outsider.
Everyone was waiting for one of the easy picks to shore up the republican base instead he picks a woman no one has heard of. No whispers, nothing. Also her past looks a bit renegade, her move into the govenor's mansion isn't exactly the normal get your name known kiss some ass long term movement.
Everyone was waiting for one of the easy picks to shore up the republican base instead he picks a woman no one has heard of. No whispers, nothing. Also her past looks a bit renegade, her move into the govenor's mansion isn't exactly the normal get your name known kiss some ass long term movement.
From everything I have read she has a kick ass and take no names, "let God sort em out" approach. I like it.
I like her hair. ;)
I like it in the Wiki picture. Not in the one in this thread. She looks.... frosted.
Minority? Check
Unless I'm nmissing something she is
married to a minority.
I see nothing about her ethnicity in anything I've read.
From my personal political point of view she sounds like a nightmare. But then I'd never vote Republican so that answers that one. I say Help not Hinder - bold move and I'm sure it will pay off for him.
anyone who isn't a white guy gets to call themselves a minority in the US, Sundae.
I hope some of you can see the live broadcast of the new candidate's speech. She seems pretty close to saying is this thing on? She also bears a striking resemblance to Tina Fey. I find this to be the strangest choice since Dan Quail.
omfg...did you have to bring up Quayle? :shudders:
;)
anyone who isn't a white guy gets to call themselves a minority in the US, Sundae.
That's it - I'm moving!
could be. of course, we wouldn't even remember who dan quaylewas if he hadn't spent 4 years in the white house. who was the democrat VP choice that year? just a thought.
Remember when the Republicans picked Clarence Thomas because he was black, but he had no decent qualifications? This reminds me of that.
What's the population of Alaska? Half a million? This is like picking the county board chairman of Arlington County to be your VP.
People don't vote for the VP, anyway. They vote for the presidential nominee. The VP is just along for the ride unless the press or the opposition find some egregious thing in his/her background.
Remember when the Republicans picked Clarence Thomas because he was black, but he had no decent qualifications? This reminds me of that.
What's the population of Alaska? Half a million? This is like picking the county board chairman of Arlington County to be your VP.
Her bio is pretty impressive. More so than Obama. I would vote for her over McCain but I don't think that is a choice.
Well, she certainly can't be presented as elitist - she eats mooseburgers and her husband is a commercial fisherman. Apparently, he races snowmobiles too. Her oldest son just entered the military and she just gave birth to a son with Down's Syndrome this year.
Heh, truly unimportant bits of info, but funny to me.
It's like people are voting on comic book characters.
Nah, they're politicians. Well thought out comic book characters have some depth and integrity.
It's like people are voting on comic book characters.
It is comic book characters. We have a black superman and a white female superhero. Pretty interesting stuff.
Well thought out comic book characters have some depth and integrity.
Well, they're like
Liefeld characters.
It is comic book characters. We have a black superman and a white female superhero. Pretty interesting stuff.
Maybe we should get them on one ticket. How many years can McCain last in the White House? She is important and I find her lack of connections/experience refreshing. Someone was comparing Obama to Lincoln because their governmental experience levels are virtually identical... of course Lincoln got 640,000 of his fellow citizens killed... maybe experience is meaningful.
Maybe we should get them on one ticket. How many years can McCain last in the White House? She is important and I find her lack of connections/experience refreshing. Someone was comparing Obama to Lincoln because their governmental experience levels are virtually identical... of course Lincoln got 640,000 of his fellow citizens killed... maybe experience is meaningful.
Good one. :D
Her bio is pretty impressive.
Sure, her bio is impressive on the local government level. She's certainly qualified to be a governor of a small state like Alaska. But President?
McCain is in his 70s. There's a real possibility he won't make it through a 4 year term. Is she ready to be President?
Sure, her bio is impressive on the local government level. She's certainly qualified to be a governor of a small state like Alaska. But President?
McCain is in his 70s. There's a real possibility he won't make it through a 4 year term. Is she ready to be President?
Anything would be an improvement over the last 8 years. Yea, I think Gov's are better suited than Senators to do the job.
Ahhh, there's the rub. I'm looking at anything involving McCain, from himself to the people he surrounds himself with, as being exactly like the last 8 years.
What say you, Shawnee (fellow Ohio gal) on first, FIRST impression?
I say Ohioans won't like it. She looks like marshmallow fluff, I don't care HOW many mooseburgers she has eaten (for the record, I have eaten ONE mooseburger but I didn't know it until I'd eaten it and then those assholes laughed and laughed at my expression)
Anyway----I think it's dirty pool. He picked her coz Obama DIDN'T pick Hill.
Ahhh, there's the rub. I'm looking at anything involving McCain, from himself to the people he surrounds himself with, as being exactly like the last 8 years.
McCain is not a Bush. But I have always said a president is only as good as the people that he surrounds himself with. He just doesn't have time to know all the issues. He needs a good group of advisors. This has to be one of Bush's biggest failures.
What say you, Shawnee (fellow Ohio gal) on first, FIRST impression?
I say Ohioans won't like it. She looks like marshmallow fluff, I don't care HOW many mooseburgers she has eaten (for the record, I have eaten ONE mooseburger but I didn't know it until I'd eaten it and then those assholes laughed and laughed at my expression)
Anyway----I think it's dirty pool. He picked her coz Obama DIDN'T pick Hill.
That's politics. He has stolen the show for the time being. Obama isn't being hardly mentioned at all in the news the day after his big day.
I agree with you re: woman pick. It is my hope that it won't work. I hope that most women will think "nice try, wrong woman."
She could be the best woman on earth, but it still won't make me vote for McCain.
I'm still considering a write-in vote.
Merc, with all due respect and imho...Bush and McCain are completely interchangeable.
I agree with you re: woman pick. It is my hope that it won't work. I hope that most women will think "nice try, wrong woman."
She could be the best woman on earth, but it still won't make me vote for McCain.
I'm still considering a write-in vote.
Merc, with all due respect and imho...Bush and McCain are completely interchangeable.
naaa. That would be like saying all Demoncrats are alike and all Republickins are alike. I still may vote for Bob Barr as a protest vote.
I don't think it's the same as saying all demons and republicks are alike. I don't think they are. I just think McCain is an extension of Bush. I wait patiently for him to prove me wrong, but I have seen no evidence, so far.
I don't think it's the same as saying all demons and republicks are alike. I don't think they are. I just think McCain is an extension of Bush. I wait patiently for him to prove me wrong, but I have seen no evidence, so far.
I see very little in them that is alike. Maybe you could point out the things that make them so alike.
It'll be interesting to see how the biography on wiki changes as new information comes out. Can we tell how long has this been up and who the authors are? If she was really flying under the radar, you can bet the first things we read are what the handlers want us to see.
Foreign policy: thought the war would be a fairly easy venture; feels it is noble even though the bush administration's reasons for it (WMDs, for one) have been shown to be mostly unfounded.
Does not support gay and lesbian marriage rights.
Tax cuts which benefit the wealthy as economic stimulus.
Believes that making health care more affordable for everyone is "socializing" it.
That's a start.
He's a pro-lifer. that right there rankles me.
Tina Fey for President!;)
I'll get a big old campaign button that reads "I'm ghey for Fey!"
:lol:
Now, I would vote for Tina!!!!
Foreign policy: thought the war would be a fairly easy venture; feels it is noble even though the bush administration's reasons for it (WMDs, for one) have been shown to be mostly unfounded.
Does not support gay and lesbian marriage rights.
Tax cuts which benefit the wealthy as economic stimulus.
Believes that making health care more affordable for everyone is "socializing" it.
That's a start.
Pretty much any republickin platform. Not unique to Bush or McCain.
Pretty much any republickin platform. Not unique to Bush or McCain.
Yeah, that's why I'm a democrat. :D
Pretty much any republickin platform. Not unique to Bush or McCain.
Then I stand corrected: all republickins are alike. :p
Awesome on the button, Nirvana!:) If that takes off, like "shit happens" or the smiley face thing...I want full credit and financial compensation!
Okay, my two cents. :2cents:
On one hand, we've got a black guy with a white guy as his No. 2......
On the other, a white guy with a white girl as his No. 2......
Either way, history is gonna be made. Either way, a black guy or a white girl is going to be having a hell of a lot of fun here in a few months in places where they haven't in hundreds of years. In my opinion, I don't really care, just as long as Dubya gets the hell out. Is that enough of a reason?
I'm not registered at all, as anything, and I've been pondering which side to take, but with these current developments, I'm about to go to the polls in November and write in Mickey Mouse. Or Undertoad. Or HLJ. Why not.
Speaking of history, a little side thought: Black men were allowed to vote before any women were; it's only fitting a black man can be president first. :right:
well, lord knows we should make sure we're taking turns with the white house. it's the fair thing, right?
I think fair would be the best person for the job. When did that happen last, again?
I think fair would be the best person for the job. When did that happen last, again?
Never.
probably the last time... oh wait, never. we don't let the best people for the job anywhere near the race for the job.
or more likely they choose not to run while they sit at their desk making millions thinking, "President? Eff that. It's none of your business who I screwed, what I smoked, how much money I make, or when I think life begins - I ain't runnin'."
OR how many houses I have!
I, myself, forget how many I have, too. :eyebrow:
He did answer that question Bri. His family has three homes they use. They have a number of real estate investments, some of which are condos. why is that a problem?
coz when first asked, he said he'd have to check...he didn't answer before he had to "check"-----now. Do YOU have to check to see how many houses you have? My dad has many----but he KNOWS how many and where the hell they are, too. 'Course, my dad's only 80, so...
anyway, I KNOW you're a republican, lookout. I know you love your country; I do, too. I DID like McCain at the beginning...but now, he's seeming kind of out of touch with the rest of us. And, I'm your worst nightmare, Lookout. I wanted Hillary in the House! You can see we will never agree here, but I still love you!
Bri, I am not a republican. I'm fiscally conservative which isn't very republican friendly these days. Socially my liberal/conservative rankings move based on the issues. and here's the thing - i DIDN'T like John McCain. I'm still not a big fan. I believe there are better choices, unfortunately I don't believe any of them are in the race at this point so I am tentatively supporting McCain.
I don't like Hilary for a number of reasons but I would have preferred her to Obama.
I don't like Obama because it was obvious when he spoke at the convention in '04 that the newbie was being groomed for a run. He is a fantastic speaker when on the teleprompter, but he gets away with not saying much. Those are the nitpicky things I don't like. beyond that I don't like his ideas on healthcare, taxes, or foreign policy. but that's just me - i only get one vote, just like you.
my point on the McCain thing was - big friggin deal, the guy didn't know how many pieces of property he owns. He's rich. Really freaking rich and they're just investments to him and his family. There are better things to critique a candidate on than the soundbyte issues.
That was my point four years ago and it will be my point in four more years. Look at the issues and don't get sidetracked by the easy cheesy media blurbs. (D's = McCain's houses, R's = Obama's religion)
*and no I don't have to check before answering - I only own two houses and I worry about those every day. They make up a very very large part of my net worth. The very wealthy don't worry about individual investment holdings on a daily basis.
You speak wise words, lookout.
We don't agree on some things, but I like what you said up there.
Sorry, Lookout, for assuming you were a Republican. My bad. I guess I automatically think "republican" when I think "fiscally conservative", but that's family history stuff, so, no worries.
and, i was just trying to "be cute," as they say. His richness doesn't really bother me, hell, Cindy's the one with the dough. And as for "elitist", like Jon Stewart, I say, "hell YES I want somebody better than me to lead the country!" so elitism doesn't bother me overmuch. I want my prez to be educated in the finest schools, not embarrass our country whilst overseas, know things I've never even thought of...all that stuff. I just am on a McCain dump as I don't like his choice of running mate and I truly DO think he's out of touch.
I also agree that I want someone running the country who is better than ME! I also believe that the leader of the free world should be a good speaker, and that good speaking is a good barometer (but not always) of intelligence.
McCain is not horrible in those aspects, that's for sure. I just don't see him speaking for "me" whereas Obama is more along the line of my sensibilities.
I'll say it loud and clear in front of the Cellar and FSM and everyone: I WANTED HILLARY!
Let the flames begin. :)
I agree. I think he is out of touch. I also believe Obama is out of touch. I prefer McCain's decision to not pretend he's a middle class guy who knows what it's like to live paycheck to paycheck, worrying about the price at the pump. He's rich, admits he's rich but knows not everyone is and he knows they are the people who vote.
I WANTED HILLARY!
Let the flames begin.
are you saying we should burn that witch at the stake?!?:eek: ;)
Throw her in the pond and see iffin' she floats? ;)
Hey, you're not holding her down the right way, Bill! :D
From everything I have read she has a kick ass and take no names, "let God sort em out" approach. I like it.
Don't try to hump her leg with the Secret Service watching.;)
Minority? Check
Not ancient? Check
DC outsider? Check
"Maverick"? Check
What did you guys expect? Most of the other big potentials were either tied to the Bush camp somehow (that's bad) or would turn the conservative base off even more (also bad). Inexperience is Obama's shortcoming, not McCain's so picking an old school DC person would have gained nothing.
I don't know enough about her to say if I like her or not, but this makes sense if you are looking for a complimentary VP candidate.
I'm with lookout. My first reaction when I saw this was, "Well duh." She seems like such an obvious choice to me. If Hillary had won the Democratic nomination, you can bet your ass McCain would have picked a Black man or a Hispanic man. (And he definitely would
not have picked a woman in that case, for the same reason that he could never pick a black man now that he's running against Obama--because it would be like offering that community a consolation prize; it would be seen as hugely offensive.)
Palin bothers me on a gut level - body language, expressions, that sort of thing. I'll dig into the issues now that there is a running mate and try to not let my twitching antennae rule my vote, (but they are good antennae...) No matter who I like I should vote for the other candidate because I have never voted for anyone who won. So although I can't tell you will win, I can be pretty sure who will lose.
Sorry, Lookout, for assuming you were a Republican. My bad. I guess I automatically think "republican" when I think "fiscally conservative", but that's family history stuff, so, no worries.
and, i was just trying to "be cute," as they say. His richness doesn't really bother me, hell, Cindy's the one with the dough.
That's the point. The houses are actually owned by his wife. They are her investments. I don't think he knows because he could really care less.
Awesome on the button, Nirvana!:) If that takes off, like "shit happens" or the smiley face thing...I want full credit and financial compensation!
All yours Shawnee, when it makes you wealthy enough to have 7 homes, just remember I want a motor home! :)
I predicted that McCain would chose Palin. His choice was clear after Obama's speech. Any other VP pick and that pick would be eaten alive by the energized Democratic machine. All the Democracts would say about Palin is that she's 'inexperienced'. As a rabid fan of Obama, I know that a successful mother of five can gain and draw as much experience to do anything as the most seasoned diplomat. Just because she isn't paid for motherhood, it doesn't mean her experience being a mother doesn't count. After all, she also have to 'mother' the dysfunctional government of Alaska, the sneaky oil companies, and the now-disowned Ted Stevens.
Yes, deadbeater, but she's also pro-life. That probably won't win a lot of Hilary supporters over. And, truly, do you think being a mother prepares you to deal with foreign policy? come on.
Yes, deadbeater, but she's also pro-life. That probably won't win a lot of Hilary supporters over.
Only if you assume people were supporting Hillary because of her political stance. There are a significant number, though no one can really know how many, who were supporting her because she is a woman.
Will she help or hinder ?
McCain's running mate won't be any help to him at all, unless it's to help him get his depends undergarments on. She's got no real experience, she's under investigation for corruption, she faked a pregnancy recently to hide the fact that her teenage daughter was pregnant, and she actually doesn't believe in evolution. Anyone over the age of 6 who doesn't believe in evolution is either retarded or insane.
McCain is under the false impression that merely having a white woman will help him snatch up all those Hillary voters. He's wrong. The Democratic party has united behind Obama. His speech the other day was one of the best I've ever heard. It was on a par with MLK's "I have a dream" speech, JFK's "Ask not what your country can do for you..." speech, and Roosevelt's "Day that will live in infamy" speech.
McCain couldn't have chosen a better candidate to guarantee Obama will win.
I must admit though, they do look good together.
Well, she certainly can't be presented as elitist - she eats mooseburgers and her husband is a commercial fisherman. Apparently, he races snowmobiles too. Her oldest son just entered the military and she just gave birth to a son with Down's Syndrome this year.
Heh, truly unimportant bits of info, but funny to me.
Her daughter gave birth to a son with down syndrome. She pretended she was pregnant to hide the fact that such a holy roller actually had a pregnant teenage daughter.
Maybe we should get them on one ticket. How many years can McCain last in the White House? She is important and I find her lack of connections/experience refreshing. Someone was comparing Obama to Lincoln because their governmental experience levels are virtually identical... of course Lincoln got 640,000 of his fellow citizens killed... maybe experience is meaningful.
Lincoln was a republican mass murderer....just like George W. Bush and his clone John McCain.
I also agree that I want someone running the country who is better than ME! I also believe that the leader of the free world should be a good speaker, and that good speaking is a good barometer (but not always) of intelligence.
McCain is not horrible in those aspects, that's for sure. I just don't see him speaking for "me" whereas Obama is more along the line of my sensibilities.
I'll say it loud and clear in front of the Cellar and FSM and everyone: I WANTED HILLARY!
Let the flames begin. :)
I doubt anyone will flame you for wanting Hillary. I'm sure you, and all of the real Hillary supporters
(not republicans pretending to be angry Hillary supporters) will now back Barack Obama as Hillary and Bill Clinton are doing.
It's this simple....
If you like the job Bush has done wrecking our economy, attacking our civil rights, launching an unwarranted, unprovoked, and unconstitutional war of aggression against a nation that posed no threat to ours, if you like American kids dying without cause while not even defending America, and you want a lot more of the same....vote for McCain.
If you'd prefer a man of honor, integrity, honesty, character, moral fiber, eloquence, and class who will lead America into the right direction for a change and a man who looks at military force as a last resort rather than a first resort, and you are tired of having Washington insiders who make backroom deals running the country....vote for Obama.
Lincoln was a republican mass murderer....just like George W. Bush and his clone John McCain.
Now Radar, none of this antebellum, 'ain't nothing wrong with slavery' nonsense. If I were in the south in 1864, I'll join the Union and try to kill every slave owner myself.
The civil war wasn't about slavery.
[INDENT]"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."
-Abraham Lincoln
"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
-Abraham Lincoln [/INDENT]
Her daughter gave birth to a son with down syndrome. She pretended she was pregnant to hide the fact that such a holy roller actually had a pregnant teenage daughter.
Surely,
surely you have some sort of cite to offer for this assertion.
Palin is no 'maverick' or 'change' candidate. She's a right-wing, theofascist nutjob. And don't forget the
troopergate scandal, in which Palin allegedly misused her power as governor by bringing inappropriate pressure for two employees to be fired. And how, as recently as last spring, she was 'out to lunch' on Iraq. Oh, and her
praise of Obama's energy plan over McCain's, which was later scrubbed from the site.
from
Newsweek:
"What is it exactly that the vice president does all day?" Palin offhandedly asked CNBC anchor Larry Kudlow in July. Kudlow explained that the job has become more important in recent years. Palin knows the energy crisis well, even if her claim on "Charlie Rose" that Alaska's untapped resources can significantly ease it is unsupported by the facts. But what does she know about Iranian nukes, health care or the future of entitlement programs? And that's just a few of the 20 or so national issues on which she will be expected to show basic competence. The McCain camp will have to either let her wing it based on a few briefing memos (highly risky) or prevent her from taking questions from reporters (a confession that she's unprepared). Either way, she's going to belly-flop at a time when McCain can least afford it.
First off, I'm sorry I did not read any postings prior to this, just wanted to put in my two cents.
I, being the politically uneducated college student I am, think it's McCain's move to get Hillary voters and make the statement "I can be diverse too!" But if McCain wins, I don't think she'll do shit. Absolutely fucking nothing. Unless he dies, which I think will most likely happen. Then she'll take over. But the thing is....she's a fucking governor. Of fucking Alaska. Governor ain't no congressman or woman. It's a governor. I'd be scared of that shit, forreal.
Governors are better suited to deal with the tasks required of the office of President than senators are. It is akin to executive experience.
from Newsweek:
Newsweek is trying to find a negative where there is none. McCain hit a homer, and the lefties are digging for dirt.
Newsweek is trying to find a negative where there is none. McCain hit a homer, and the lefties are digging for dirt.
I really think they are in a bit of a panic mode.
I know i'm a fine one to talk about partisanism, but come on... any legitimate concerns about her are just democrats digging for dirt?
I really think they are in a bit of a panic mode.
If you saw the body language during Palin's acceptance speech between her and McCain it looked to me like they were in panic mode. I think they had to get someone to hold up applause signs off camera because the crowd seemed a bit shocked into silence. His speech beforehand was littered with talking to the podium, then awkward looking up and insincere staring at the crowd smiles. Everyone seemed a bit uncomfortable. It was like they were the skunks at a picnic and neither wanted to smell the other.
I think it's hilarious. I mean the guy is 72 so why not go out with style. He dosn't have much to lose.
Ahhh, there's the rub. I'm looking at anything involving McCain, from himself to the people he surrounds himself with, as being exactly like the last 8 years.
For people like me, who dislike tyrants much more than they'd ever dislike Republicans,
that is a selling point.
Not too many objections from this quarter.
If you like the job Bush has done wrecking our economy, attacking our civil rights, launching an unwarranted, unprovoked, and unconstitutional war of aggression against a nation that posed no threat to ours, if you like American kids dying without cause while not even defending America, and you want a lot more of the same....vote for McCain.
Purest balderdash, each and every word. You're wrong. Taking out Saddam at the time we did was like taking Hitler out during Sudetenland -- much less trouble than it was later, no? We were wise enough to time taking down a tyrant when it was easier, you purblind dupe! Your opinion shouldn't even count with you, so ill-informed and baseless is it. Why can you not accept that destroying tyrants liberates people?! Shame on you ten billion times for your myopia and your inability at foreign policy.
If you'd prefer a man of honor, integrity, honesty, character, moral fiber, eloquence, and class who will lead America into the right direction for a change and a man who looks at military force as a last resort rather than a first resort, and you are tired of having Washington insiders who make backroom deals running the country....vote for Obama.
Sucker. And you claim a superior intellect??? Ha ha. Trouble with Obama is he's in the party that has sought nothing but substitutes for victory, which means it's a party of tyrant-loving, therefore honor-challenged, morons with no capacity for strategy. Such associations cannot nurture integrity, wisdom, or national success. The original Carter was unsuccessful enough -- where's any necessity for a repeat?
Class and eloquence Obama is gifted in. We shall see what transpires with this in the future.
First resort? The historical record that you are ignoring top to bottom, radar (again, your
beyond stupid irrational antiRepublican prejudices, carefully and with malice cultivated to floridity, are plain), says otherwise.
You are wrong, and you won't make yourself right. You haven't even enough integrity or character to read and digest Gerson's
Heroic Conservatism, which sets the record convincingly straight on the Bush Presidency. I challenge you to do this, considering it 80 percent likely you will fail the challenge, because a closed irrational mind can't be anything but a stupid one. Your failure is grotesque, your opinion valueless.
Governors are better suited to deal with the tasks required of the office of President than senators are. It is akin to executive experience.
I agree with Mercenary here. We tend not to make Presidents out of Senators -- the present election bucks that trend. We tend to make them out of state Governors. So why not Veeps?
Surely, surely you have some sort of cite to offer for this assertion.
http://dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/17933/7330because Kos thinks so? That's your citation?
Wow.
Tina Fey for President!;)
Close enough. ;)
http://dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/17933/7330
I wouldn't smack a dog on the evidence given there.
A nasty little conspiracy theory which - as most conspiracy theories do - ignores the obvious. If the "cover story" sounds suspicious it's probably true. Truth has discrepancies and inconveniences in it.
I'd be more interested if people were questioning her family values because she gave a speech and took an 11 hour plane flight while leaking amniotic fluid from a known Downs Syndrome pregnancy in her eighth month. Also she went back to work after 3 days leaving her premature special needs baby.
Normally I'd say - how dare you question a politician about a baby, just because she's a woman. But in America, politicians make decisions about contraception, sex education and abortion which affect other women, their bodies and their babies, so I think if a politician - male OR female - makes a pro-life stand they open themselves up to questions about their own personal family life.
All very interesting, but as I say I think the teenage daughter pregnancy is a nasty smear and not worth following up.
Archaeologists found a 10,000 year old body near to Cheddar (the so-called Cheddar Man). They were able (I know not how) to do some kind of chromosomal analysis against which they compared the local male population. They found descendants. !0,000 years and still livin' in Cheddar :P
I've been to Cheddar - I don't think they've changed much ;)
could be. of course, we wouldn't even remember who dan quaylewas if he hadn't spent 4 years in the white house. who was the democrat VP choice that year? just a thought.
Dan Quayle never lived in the White House, the VP residence is in the Naval Observatory.
non-sequitur much?
(you have no idea how hard it is to spell non-sequitur
drunk off your ass. if its still wrong, sorry.)
(whoops, brian posted while i was typing. my comment was to dana. whats the cheddar man got to do with how bad palin is?)
Apparently the speculation about the kid actually being a grandkid, is all based on this photo of her on Super Tuesday, a month before she announced she was 7 months pregnant. Pretty scant, as some women, especially very fit ones, don't show much at 6 months.
She wasn't especially fit, and I've heard of obese women that didn't know they were pregnant until they went into labor.
Here's an interesting thought someone had on a blog...
August 30, 2008...8:50 pm
Food for Thought on the Palin-Baby Story
Jump to Comments
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC): “I don’t know where she’s traveled to…But it’s not meeting people that matters. You know, President Bush met President Putin. And I don’t think it matters just meeting people. You look at people’s judgment.”
If the “official story” about Palin and her baby is true, then I question her judgment.
Her water breaks while she is in Texas. She chooses not to get medical attention, but to stay and give a speech. (Did anyone mop up after her?)
Then she gets on a commercial aircraft for a several-hour flight, without telling the flight attendants that her water had broken earlier that day. (How did she keep her seat dry?)
This was a premature delivery, and she did not seek medical attention for several hours, and endangered her baby by getting on board an aircraft where there would be no emergency facilities available for hours (or she would have forced an emergency landing enroute).
For someone “pro-life” she certainly showed a callous disregard for the health and safety of her baby.
Apparently the speculation about the kid actually being a grandkid, is all based on this photo of her on Super Tuesday, a month before she announced she was 7 months pregnant. Pretty scant, as some women, especially very fit ones, don't show much at 6 months.
There's also family photos with mommy not showing, but her daughter clearly has a baby bump.
lol. I only just realised my Cheddar comment had gone in the wrong thread!
It was more appropriate than a couple recent comments.
Radar that blog comment is worthless. Anyone with teenage children knows that pic means NOTHING. That could be a perfectly normal pic of any teen girl. And if it really happened, why isn't the unabashedly liberal media all over it?
Stop propagating more bullshit and stfu.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone here know what the VP does, day-to-day?
I don't... a rough idea what the VP's duties are, but not the day-to-day routine. I would imagine it amounts to following an itinerary handed to him/her by the staff, and knowing how to act appropriately in each of those situations as they arise. :confused:
The TV series West Wing taught me that the VP sits in a dark office all day waiting for Martin Sheen to come in and yell at him.
The [COLOR="red"]last 8 years [/COLOR]taught me that the VP sits in a [COLOR="Red"]bunker[/COLOR] all day waiting for [COLOR="red"]Bush[/COLOR] to [COLOR="red"]come in for his orders[/COLOR].
Fixed that fer ya. :lol:
Just out of curiosity, does anyone here know what the VP does, day-to-day?
I don't... a rough idea what the VP's duties are, but not the day-to-day routine. I would imagine it amounts to following an itinerary handed to him/her by the staff, and knowing how to act appropriately in each of those situations as they arise. :confused:
Bill Maher answers this question well...
[YOUTUBE]zaKKSmoxcD4[/youtube]
Another pompous asshole - keep 'em coming radar.
Radar, unit now I would have pegged you for a man who likes the truth. I would not have pegged you for a man who would use conjecture, rumor and statements that contain the word "may" and "appear", in place of statements of truth and fact. On daily KOS the following statements appear: "But it appears that Pallin's last child, a baby with Down's syndrome, may not be hers. It may be that of her teenage daughter. " I know we've quibbled before of the definition of "is", radar there is a big difference between "is" and "may". I could buy a copy of the National Enquirer for that kind of reporting. I guess I should count my blessings, I got here for free. :D
So, anybody ask why she was on a commercial flight?
She sold the official state jet on ebay when she took office, for 2.1 million, because she said it was a frivolous expense. Instead, she flies coach.
Know any other state governors who fly coach? Anyone?
the late Senator Paul Wellstone?
McCain's runing mate is a female human widely known as "Pallin".
Apart from that, I am not believing anything I hear about her for the next two weeks. Let the dust settle and the smoke clear first. There's still plenty of time before voting day. A few weeks scrutiny will sort the wheat from the chaff. Or in this case, the plausible PR spin from the outright lies.
And I won't believe anything new I hear in the last week before polling either. Standard trick - trott out some slander at the last moment when there is no opportunity to disprove it.
I'm only cynical if I'm wrong.
Apart from that, I am not believing anything I hear about her for the next two weeks. Let the dust settle and the smoke clear first. There's still plenty of time before voting day.
I didn't realize, they're letting Aussies vote this time around? ;)
Eh, fuggit, maybe we should... joke as it is...
Why not Michelle Bachman?! Dang. I must admit, I thought the affable (and more experienced) Gov Pawlenty was the threat.
Heckuvajob.
I think it is a very appropriate choice that highlights the caliber of decision making we might expect from a Pres. McCain (or his handlers).
And I won't believe anything new I hear in the last week before polling either. Standard trick - trott out some slander at the last moment when there is no opportunity to disprove it.
The Alaska ethics investigation report is due 4 days before the election.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone here know what the VP does, day-to-day?
I don't... a rough idea what the VP's duties are, but not the day-to-day routine. I would imagine it amounts to following an itinerary handed to him/her by the staff, and knowing how to act appropriately in each of those situations as they arise. :confused:
The duties will vary depending on the President. With the absurd growth in the power of the executive branch the VP's role has been increasing. Mondale apparently had a large role in the Carter administration, while W has had a significant role in the Cheney adm. ;) I expect that the next VP will have a role in whatever area of expertise they have. Biden will likely be the foreign policy guy and a channel to Congress. Pallin will have to define herself.
Well that's that. Reuters:
The 17-year-old daughter of the Republican vice-presidential candidate, Governor Sarah Palin of Alaska, is pregnant, Palin said Monday in an announcement intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child.
Bristol Palin, one of Palin’s five children with her husband, Todd, is about five months pregnant and is going to keep the child and marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the campaign of Senator John McCain.
She didn't give birth 4 months ago, because she's five months pregnant now.
Phew.
Oh wait - I mean, oh dear.
The question is, is there a point at which the candidates private life affects their public life.
After the rumors about he covering for her teenage daughters pregnancy, it is now confirmed that her
teenage daughter is pregnant.
One of the reasons McCain picked her was to appeal to social conservatives. Her answers to the 'abstinence only education' question during the vice presidential debate should be very informative. Even without Biden bringing her personal experience into it, the subtext will be there.
When the commentators mentioned her flying home during her 'labor' as an example of toughness, my wife looked shocked. It might actually be better for her if she wasn't pregnant and was covering for her daughter. Trying to sell her to women conservatives as an effective mom and politician are going to be difficult.
It's going to be an interesting two months.
When the commentators mentioned her flying home during her 'labor' as an example of toughness, my wife looked shocked. It might actually be better for her if she wasn't pregnant and was covering for her daughter. Trying to sell her to women conservatives as an effective mom and politician are going to be difficult.
I have to assume your wife is not conservative, right? It's a little weird that you transpose her reaction into a belief about how people who are
not like her will react. The statement the Pallins gave said,
Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents... Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family.
which is completely in line with their political beliefs, and the official social conservative reaction so far is:
Focus on the Family founder James Dobson issued a statement commending the Palins for "for not just talking about their pro-life and pro-family values, but living them out even in the midst of trying circumstances." He added: "Being a Christian does not mean you're perfect. Nor does it mean your children are perfect. But it does mean there is forgiveness and restoration when we confess our imperfections to the Lord."
It's a non-story, and won't affect her standing with social conservatives at all, just like Cheney's lesbian daughter didn't.
I have to assume your wife is not conservative, right? It's a little weird that you transpose her reaction into a belief about how people who are not like her will react.
You mean non-mothers? I guess we could do a poll and ask mothers how many of them would board a plane in labor during a high risk pregnancy.
Her private life is part of the story. It always will be for candidates. Who your minister is, where you went to school, and how you are perceived as raising your family.
It is true that people let politicians who have been divorced multiple times can successfully run on a 'family values' ticket. This is something new.
I absolutely agree that people's private lives, in general, affect their viability for public office. What I take issue with is your assertion of what this will mean, not for you as a voter, but for other people as voters. This "scandal" is not a scandal to social conservatives, but social liberals wish it were, because they think they see a perverse justice being served.
Her whole career has been spent talking about unrealistic things like abstinence. She's a holy roller trying to shove her Christian morality down everyone else's throats through legislation, and now it turns out, like most zealots, she's got her own problems to worry about.
[INDENT]Matthew 7: 1-5
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. [/INDENT]
What I take issue with is your assertion of what this will mean, not for you as a voter, but for other people as voters.
Why not? Should I limit speculation to liberal moderate males of my age. How about if I only speculate about the voting patterns of men born on my exact birth date?:D
I believe that anyone can be a political pundit and speculate about the voting habits and opinions of any group they want. Otherwise, we'd need an army of correspondents on Fox and MSNBC to represent every possible voting block in the country. And try to find an Albanian-American neocon pre-op transexual when news breaks on a Friday night in the Balkans.
I believe that independents will be rolling their eyes when she answers the 'abstinence only education' question in the debates. Hard core social conservatives may stay with her, but she will probably lose the more pragmatic ones.
I didn't realize, they're letting Aussies vote this time around? ;)
I've been arguing that for years.
The USA dictates our foreign policy.
The USA sets our trade policy.
The USA influences our environmental policy.
The USA strongly hints at our social policy.
I reckon we SHOULD have the right to vote for the prez of the USA.
(Okay guys, just kidding, but I assert the right to have an opinion about the candidates.)
I also note that I have twelve days left to learn how to spell Palin :p
The Alaska ethics investigation report is due 4 days before the election.
What a remarkable coincidence.
I wonder how that will turn out. Clear her, condemn her, or be ambiguous, but I reckon by that time most people will have made up their minds.
It makes the choice of Palin seem very odd. Choosing someone who is currently under investigation for unethical behaviour, with the result as yet unknown. High risk.
Choosing someone who is currently under investigation for unethical behaviour, with the result as yet unknown. High risk.
It actually might work out beautifully for him. Choose a running mate with possible issues that might force a resignation, including legal and/or family issues. Get elected. Either the family issue or the legal issue prompts VP to resign. Appoint the VP you originally wanted, but who couldn't get you elected.
Say hello to VP Lieberman in 18 months.
This would explain why McCain picked her while knowing about the investigation and her daughters pregnancy.
F***ing brilliant.:thumb:
Brilliant ... provided it doesn't cost him the election.
"I have said before and I will repeat again: People's families are off limits. And people's children are especially off-limits. This shouldn't be part of politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor and/or her potential performance as a vice president. So I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18 and how a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn't be a topic of our politics."
Brilliant ... provided it doesn't cost him the election.
Don't worry this won't cost him the election. The fact that he's less popular than Obama and not as good a candidate will cost him the election. The pick of this corrupt woman will just make him lose by a larger margin.
If Obama does happen to lose, will you please post some pics of your imploded head for us?
I can't do that, but I will take a photo or two of me paying out about $3,000 I've made in bets.
Obamas response to the pregnancy was a master stroke in my opinion.
And the proper one. Her kid getting knocked up in High School has nothing to do with it. The daughters of people who promote early sex education & contraception, also get knocked up.
Delaying medical attention, and flying, after her water broke, might make some people question her priorities. OK, fair question, but leave the kid out of it.
Harassing her ex-brother, and lying about it, is more interesting to me.
Governor “Squeakyclean”….or not. about half way down the page.
Very interesting if it's true. Custody battles can get pretty nasty, and the line between truth and fiction often becomes very blurred as we all know. Still, doesn't look good for her though.
Sorry but dishonesty and hypocrisy in a candidate is important to me, even if it's in their home life. Her daughter's pregnancy are as politically important as John Edward's relationship with the woman he cheated on his wife with or the blow job Clinton got.
The public has no right to know about these things, but they should be out in the open when someone wants to act like a pious and holy person who tells other how to live their lives. If someone wants to create laws to force their Christian morality down the throats of others, they should live up to the same standard.
Yeah...we should all be responsible for the mistakes others make.
eta: Of course, this is definitely not a very libertarian viewpoint.
Just remember Radar has a violent and unreasoning prejudice against anything with a Republican label -- for all that the Democrats are manifestly the bigger socialists, which are about as antilibertarian as a viable American political philosophy gets. He avoids understanding this. He probably won't go near the elephants at the zoo.
Yeah...we should all be responsible for the mistakes others make.
eta: Of course, this is definitely not a very libertarian viewpoint.
I didn't say she was responsible for the mistakes someone else made. She's responsible for her own mistakes, as in the mistakes she made when raising her daughter, or in focusing on her career rather than being focused on raising her kids in a way that was consistent with the morality she claims to subscribe to and which she's trying to shove down everyone else's throat.
The woman doesn't believe in evolution. That alone proves her to be a nutjob.
For the record, Republicans are more socialist than Democrats and Republicans are more fiscally irresponsible than Democrats.
- In a televised debate in 2006, Palin said she supported teaching both creationism and evolution in public schools. She clarified her position the next day, saying that if a debate of alternative views arose in class she would not prohibit its discussion. She added that she would not push the state Board of Education to add creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.[111]
"...would not push the state Board of Education to add creation-based alternatives" That's far from shoving down throats.
Sorry but dishonesty and hypocrisy in a candidate is important to me
And so you indulge in rumor-mongering and overstatement. Care to apply your own standards to yourself?
Her whole career has been spent talking about unrealistic things like abstinence.
True, abstinence is just about as unrealistic as say getting even a tenth of the country to believe your views on taxes, national defense, or... really just about any damn thing you've hung your flag on. Completely unrealistic. But here's the thing, I don't consider you a nutjob because I disagree with you. Why is it that she
must be a nutjob if she disagrees with you?
"...would not push the state Board of Education to add creation-based alternatives" That's far from shoving down throats.
And so you indulge in rumor-mongering and overstatement. Care to apply your own standards to yourself?
Pfffft! Facts? Facts can be used to prove anything.
True, abstinence is just about as unrealistic as say getting even a tenth of the country to believe your views on taxes, national defense, or... really just about any damn thing you've hung your flag on. Completely unrealistic. But here's the thing, I don't consider you a nutjob because I disagree with you. Why is it that she must be a nutjob if she disagrees with you?
The truth doesn't change based on the number of people who believe in it. I contend that anyone who thinks evolution is false and creationism is true is mentally deficient. It's not a matter of disagreement, it's a matter of having the ability to discern science from fairy tales.
The majority of the world believed the world was flat. The majority of the United States believe income taxes are legal. The majority of America is stupid enough to think the federal government has powers other than those enumerated in the Constitution. They are all equally correct in their beliefs.
The Alaska ethics investigation report is due 4 days before the election.
It will be delayed. [/fearless prediction]
Pfffft! Facts? Facts can be used to prove anything.
u r 1 funnee mofo~!!!11
:lol2:
Whatever. The facts are already known and admitted to by the parties involved. They are just investigating to find out if she was wrong in her actions, or not. :right: Anyway, that issue isn't going to make anyone like or dislike her anymore than they would have anyway.
Her sister was married to a cop and in a custody dispute. The cop had abused her in the past and there were some other issues with him that you might not like to be swirling around a cop. His boss chose not to discipline him, so the boss got removed from his job. Palin's hack took fell on his sword and promptly said he did it on his own without her involvement. Whatever. stupid move but nothing unusual in the world of politics unfortunately.
Translation: Palin's sister was divorcing a cop and she wanted to make sure she got the kids, so rather than try to do it fairly in court, she made up stories of abuse, and had her sister fire the guy. When his commander refused to fire him, she had the commander fired and replaced . The new guy quit soon after being appointed the replacement.
Now Palin is caught with her hand in the "abuse of power" cookie jar.
yeah, that could be it too. i wasn't there personally so just basing my statements on what is readily available. Now that I've thought about it a little more I think you're probably right.
Palin is a republican so the chances of her sister being honest are next to nil. And really, I seriously doubt a cop would ever hit his wife. This all started as a plot to invade another country. Chances are he came home and caught that whore he'd married banging some republican stooge so he'd vote for her sister. The upstanding cop was so sickened at the thought of republican corruption that he had no choice to speak loudly at his wife while admonishing her republican whoring about. She, being a republican and a whore, (probably a crackhead and parttime lesbian too, but I digress) quickly seized at this opportunity and called Karl Rove to come hit her a few times so she'd be able to convince her sister that the husband was in fact an abusive bastard who she caught trying to sell Uranium to the...
oh fuck it, i'm just not as good as you at hating. Radar, you talk as if truth and facts are all you and right thinking libertarians care about but you spread more bullshit and innuendo than even most D's and R's.
oh fuck it, i'm just not as good as you at hating. Radar, you talk as if truth and facts are all you and right thinking libertarians care about but you spread more bullshit and innuendo than even most D's and R's.
Don't blame yourself. Few have my capacity for hate. ;) Also, don't hate the player, hate the game. The Democrats & Republicans invented smear campaigns. I'm just using their own tactics against them.
Seriously though, I've seen people make up terrible things during a divorce... like allegations of abuse (sexual or physical) on the wife or kids.
Let's look at the two stories and see which seems more logical from an objective viewpoint.
1) A cop beat his wife and abused her, and her sister just happens to be governor and she attempts to get him fired only because of this alleged abuse and not because he was in a nasty divorce with her sister.
or
2) A cop and his wife were getting a divorce and things got ugly, so she called her sister, the governor, and asked her to get this guy fired on the grounds of spousal abuse.
I think option 2 sounds more believable. Not because this women is a bible-thumping, disgusting neocon who stupidly believes evolution is fake, but simply because it's just more plausible.
Perhaps the truth lies somewhere between. In either case, it is an ethical violation for her sister to try to get the guy fired.
if that's the way it went down it's an ethical violation. ok? next.
obama couldn't afford to buy the mansion he wanted so he entered into a shady real estate deal. ok? next.
neither of these issues is enough to eliminate them from public office. politicians aren't squeaky clean. life isn't black and white like you want to believe, so it's up to us to look at the whole picture and weigh out the pros and cons we see with a candidate and sift it through our own priorities and values. At the end of that process you'll find you can only support one of the candidates and you'll probably have to hold your nose a little while you do. welcome to politics. what you fail to accept is that 2 reasonably intelligent, rational people can look at the same information and come to different conclusions without any mental defficiency. that blindness is a problem that afflicts an awful lot of hardcore, rabid party desciples whether they be R,D, or L.
OK, how many people here are parents who have children who sometimes do things they'd rather they didn't? Or...shock horror...do things completely opposite to the way they've been raised for the usual teenage reasons?
Is it your fault as a parent? Maybe although I tend to believe that taking a different path to your parents is part of the growing process and there are things to be learned by both the child and the parent from the experience.
If kids never bothered doing things contrary to what their parents 'brought them up to believe', we'd all still be either living in the garden of Eden, or in caves (depending on your belief system).
As to the situation with Palin, if I were American her actions wouldn't affect how I'd vote anyway. Surely you all know that the person in the top job is just a mouth piece by now anyway right? They do what the party tells them or they get dumped. They're all human and make mistakes. If they've done something that causes them to be fired in due course, then so be it. Unfortunately the nature of politics dictates that the little people must leave it to the big dogs to sort it out.
Have you looked at Cheney's Vice Presidency? He's been pretty active and powerful for the last 8 years, enabling him to perplex many in his own party. I'm just saying that it actually is a position of power, if the executive maneuvers it so.
Oh, and I couldn't care less about the daughters, neither Palins or Cheney's!
Fair enough Warch. You're right in that regard, so maybe she would have power to enact her evil plans.
I doubt they could be too much more evil than Cheney's though could they? ;)
The Democrats & Republicans invented smear campaigns. I'm just using their own tactics against them.
And how's that work on the Cellar and in real life? Now your credibility is shot. Where do you go from there?
I doubt they could be too much more evil than Cheney's though could they?
Yeah, but sometimes you risk not overt evil, just incompetence. Which is worse? The whole election circus should work to help voters weigh and balance ideologies with the skills of practice in reality-based sausage making of governance, particularly during a time of global war. Obama/Biden seems more balanced in that regard to me, than McCain/Palin.
I'd be voting for Obama/Biden if I had the chance. I don't though, so I just have to leave my future in the hands of the people who do have the chance.
Here's an idea, I'll auction my vote to one of you for'ners. Ali to Zengum, I've got you covered.
The irony is that I would vote in an American election if I could, where-as so many of your countrymen choose not to.
I don't get that.
Sad but true.
And how's that work on the Cellar and in real life? Now your credibility is shot. Where do you go from there?
How can one lose something he never had? Its all a matter of perspective.
The irony is that I would vote in an American election if I could, where-as so many of your countrymen choose not to.
I don't get that.
Nor do I. I have never missed a vote and this year I'll be on a cruise so I'll mail mine in.
I was sitting in Starbuck's waiting for my Java Chip (yum) and listening to a very impassioned early 20 something explain why Palin is a horrible choice for McCain.
"She's completely inexperienced and hasn't done anything. AND she's incompetent."
Which is it? She's either inexperienced and we know nothing about her... or she's incompetent. Both statements can't be true. If she hasn't done anything how do you know she's incompetent. If she's incompetent then it means she's done something.
eh, just listening to people argue their opinions is interesting to me.
Which is it? She's either inexperienced and we know nothing about her... or she's incompetent.
How curious. George Jr also was both inexperienced and incompetent. How do you justify that?
Palin appears to be symptoms of a campaign where the moderate Republicans are now struggling with the right wing staff members. It was a bad choice and not what McCain apparently wanted - Sen Lieberman. Infighting would also explain why so many surprises were discovered only after the Palin choice was made. McCain was never comfortable with the wacko extremist wing of the party (ie Karl Rove) that is now inside his campaign.
The point is you can't KNOW both of them in advance. either they have a record that hilights there incompetence or they have no record which makes them inexperienced. But hey, good job in making another post about George. Do you get royalties?
But hey, good job in making another post about George. Do you get royalties?
We don't need learn from no stinkin' history. Our political agenda tells us everything we need know. Ignore the disaster that George Jr has been to this nation.
Yep. Even George Jr finally learned. When a category 5 hurricane will strike a major city, the smart president does not fly off on campaign junkettes. Even George Jr can learn from history. But lookout123 wants to forget it? Extremists know everything from a political agenda. History is just a nuisance.
"Did you hear what my man Rush said today?" No reason to waste time remembering history - the man who was both inexperienced and incompetant. Eventually even diehard Republicans had to admit it.
hey you forgot to mention those seven minutes, dic.
hey you forgot to mention those seven minutes, dic.
As usual, only a wacko extremist must always post profanity. Profanity is common among those with lesser intelligence such as stock brokers.
you have got to be the least self aware mother's basement dwelling fuckstick ever pumped into a sperm bank testtube.
oops, more profanity. don't tell your mom, ok?
So back to the topic of the thread,
Time magazine is reporting that when she was mayor of Wasilla, she inquired at the library how she could go about banning books, and when the librarian resisted, she threatened to fire her.
Stein [the former mayor] says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor.
Nice save, glatt. Back on topic.
I read that article too. Wanting to ban some books because you want to be responsive to your constituents is perfectly valid. I find it repugnant, but it is one real way to be the decider-executive-person. I also think it's a valid topic for discussion in this context.
--an aside--
I watched Chris Matthews interview John McCain this past Sunday. It was... jarring. But one of the more comic moments came when Matthews was skeptically ticking off Palin's experience as a follow on to the question of her readiness to serve (as President, a heartbeat away :gasp: ). He mentioned her short time as governor, and her two terms as mayor, and even listed her time as a city councilwoman. I could barely believe my eyes when McCain responded. He scolded Matthews for leaving out her service in the PTA! He wasn't joking.
It came off as though McCain was remembering his coaching to include the whole of her resume, since it would inevitably come up. I lol'ed
In 1998, voters in a focus group were asked to close their eyes and imagine what a governor should look like. "They automatically pictured a man," says Barbara Lee, whose foundation promoting women's political advancement sponsored the survey. "The kind you see in those portraits hanging in statehouse hallways." They most certainly didn't visualize Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, a former beauty-pageant winner, avid hunter, snowmobiler and mother of four who was elected to her state's highest office last November. Or Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano, a badge-wielding former federal prosecutor and onetime attorney for Anita Hill who has redefined the debate over illegal immigration in her state.
While this year's political buzz has been about Hillary Clinton's run for the White House and Nancy Pelosi's ascension to Speaker of the House, women leaders like Palin, a Republican, and Napolitano, a Democrat, have gained significant power in the lives of millions of Americans at the state level. In addition to Alaska and Arizona, Michigan, Kansas, Washington, Hawaii, Connecticut, Louisiana and Delaware elected or re-elected women governors in the last year. That's a total of nine, the highest number to serve simultaneously. And next year women candidates will run for the statehouse in North Carolina and Indiana. A decade ago only 16 women in U.S. history had served as governor (four of them were appointed to replace their dead husbands or other ill-fated male predecessors). Today that number stands at 29. "The best way for people to believe in women as competent executives is by actually watching them govern," says Lee. "They find them likable, strong and effective."
http://www.newsweek.com/id/42534The Libertarian Case for Palin
By David Harsanyi
The potential political consequences of Sarah Palin have been chewed over from every imaginable angle.
Though there is plenty to ponder, one thing is certain: libertarian-inclined voters should be encouraged. No, I'm not suggesting that your little Molly will be bringing home "The Road to Serfdom" from her (distinctly non-public) elementary school. But in contrast to any national candidate in recent memory, Palin is the one that exudes the economic and cultural sensibilities of a geniune Western-style libertarian.
Now, Palin's lack of experience has been framed as an impenetrable negative. One wire story helpfully noted that Palin had never ever appeared on "Meet the Press." Shocking! But as Barack Obama often notes, it's not about experience, it's about judgment. And Palin's penchant for reform-minded conservatism is certainly at odds with the racket Washington Republicans have offered up the past 8 years.
Palin, for example, vetoed 300 pork projects in Alaska in her first year in office. She made a habit of knocking out big-government Republicans in her brief political career. For this, the 44-year-old mother of five enjoys a sterling approval rating in a state with arguably the nation's most libertarian-minded populace.
When it comes to healthcare, Palin says she wants to "allow free-market competition and reduce onerous government regulation." These days, any mention of the "free market" that's not framed as a crass pejorative is a sign of progress.
Culturally, there is little for the Heartland to dislike. By now, you've probably seen picture or two of Palin sporting a rifle. Apparently, she's left carcasses strewn across the Alaskan wilderness. In some places -- areas where the nation is growing -- owning a gun is not yet a sin. And unlike Obama, Palin seems to believe that the Second Amendment means the exact same thing in rural Alaska as it does in the streets of Chicago.
Yes, Palin is without argument a staunch social conservative. She is fervently opposed to abortion - even in cases of rape and incest, which will raise eyebrows, but is certainly more philosophically consistent than the namby pambyism of your average politician. The choice issue, after all, is complicated, even for many libertarians. And, as I was recently reminded, Ron Paul, the Libertarian champion of the 21st century, also opposes abortion.
Even when advocating for "moral" issues, Palin's approach is a soft sell. Palin does not support gay marriage (neither does Obama, it should be noted). Yet, in 2006, Palin's first veto as Governor was a bill that sought to block state employee benefits and health insurance for same-sex couples.
We cannot bore into Palin's soul to see her true feelings about gay couples, but, at the time, she noted that signing "this bill would be in direct violation of my oath of office" because it was unconstitutional. For most libertarians, the thought of politician following any constitution, rather than their own predilections, morality or the "common good," is a nice change of pace.
On the counterproductive War on Drugs, Palin is no warrior. Her Republican opponent in 2006 primary, incumbent Republican governor Frank Murkowski, made recriminalizing the possession of small amounts of pot a priority. Palin, though she does not support legalization, believes enforcement should not be a high priority.
"I can't claim a Bill Clinton and say that I never inhaled," Palin once said. This sort of honesty is a welcome change from the standard hand-wringing about marijuana's supposed disastrous consequences.
On education, Palin supports school-choice programs. There have already been smears that she backed "creationist" teaching in "public" schools, when in fact, Palin's comment regarding intelligent design should hold some appeal to libertarians. Even if you find the idea inane, in essence, Palin pushed the idea that parents, rather than the state, should decide what children are learning.
When asked about this commotion, Palin said, "I won't have religion as a litmus test, or anybody's personal opinion on evolution or creationism." If lockstep left-wing union-run school boards in urban districts would follow this sound advice on ideological litmus tests, our educational system would be a lot more productive.
Then there is a question of authenticity. And it matters. Those who will do anything for power, will say anything and support any position that is convenient. From John McCain to Joe Biden to Obama, one gets the sense that political office is their life's work. All of them have made attempts to create the perception that, hey, they're ordinary Americans just like you. Palin won't have to work at genuineness. With Palin, you get the impression she can take politics or leave it. Her life certainly hasn't been saturated with policy, favor trading and back scratching.
Of course, Washington has a mysterious power to turn perfectly reasonable, wholesome, well-meaning human beings into equivocating crooked gasbags. But, from the little we know about Palin, such a transformation doesn't seem likely. And for libertarians - in the broadest sense of the small "l" word -- she's the best candidate they can expect.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/the_libertarian_case_for_palin.htmlMembers of 'Fringe' Alaskan Independence Party Incorrectly Say Palin Was a Member in 90s; McCain Camp and Alaska Division of Elections Deny Charge*
September 01, 2008 6:52 PM
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.htmlShe really isn't typical a DC Republican. It'd be nice to see them try to clean the GOP's house. It will probably be smear and be smeared for her as number 2 though. That could mean a short career when she doesn't yet have a national image.
I bet it will significantly boost her image in her home state regardless of what happens in this national election. She will go back and be the gov of Alaska for the next 20 years.
Nice save, glatt. Back on topic.
I read that article too. Wanting to ban some books because you want to be responsive to your constituents is perfectly valid. I find it repugnant, but it is one real way to be the decider-executive-person. I also think it's a valid topic for discussion in this context.
--an aside--
I watched Chris Matthews interview John McCain this past Sunday. It was... jarring. But one of the more comic moments came when Matthews was skeptically ticking off Palin's experience as a follow on to the question of her readiness to serve (as President, a heartbeat away :gasp: ). He mentioned her short time as governor, and her two terms as mayor, and even listed her time as a city councilwoman. I could barely believe my eyes when McCain responded. He scolded Matthews for leaving out her service in the PTA! He wasn't joking.
It came off as though McCain was remembering his coaching to include the whole of her resume, since it would inevitably come up. I lol'ed
CORRECTION:
The interview was conducted by Chris Wallace, not Chris Matthews.
Got some interesting opinions in this article
Sarah Palin's Campaign Debut
I was not too thrilled with it - I did like the one "accidental shot" of a female protester being removed from the building during her speech. That was the best part to me.
This speech, to me, was no better than any other. It wasn't awe inspiring or totally lame. It was a pretty average political speech with all the crap that goes into them.
Side note/ Giving a standing ovation every ten words all night is ridiculous. It happens all the time at these political events - To me its like in the swearing thread - too much just makes it lose its meaning entirely.
They've found the chink in her armor.
Yes, Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin has a lot on her plate: a pregnant teen daughter, a son on his way to Iraq, an infant with Down syndrome and a looming national election.
But must her hair suffer? With her long, straight, often pinned-up locks, Palin looks one humid day away from fronting a Kiss cover band.
“It’s about 20 years out of date,” said Boston stylist Mario Russo of the Alaska governor’s ’do. “Which goes to show how off she might be on current events.”
Boston HeraldShe's not my VP candidate, but come on...what woman with longer hair doesn't throw it into a clip every now and then? It's not even a hair "style" per se. It's just a woman with longer hair who likes to pull it out of her face. :headshake
She's still VPILF.
aren't you getting ahead of yourself? she's still only a VPCILF.
This is AWESOME!
[youtube]J8uGenNjOAI[/youtube]
That is truly awesome, Radar!
:)
Absolutely fantastic.
So, what kind of sack was Dick Morris again?:p
FYI
Wasilla is *not* the second largest city in Alaska....
we were cracking up last night when we saw that on Stewart.
The only cities I've even heard of in Alaska are Juneau, Anchorage, and Fairbanks. When I ran for congress, I got about the same number of votes as the population of the town she was the mayor of. :)
Even though John McCain said that Sarah Palin was fully vetted, I can't help but wonder if there is something in her family background, yet to be revealed, that we will have to deal with ...
[ATTACH]19281[/ATTACH]
I recently got this in an email labeled "Scarey!" from one of my Democrat connections. It reminds me of why the Dems shouldn't be in power either. Barr for all his horrible votes over the years is at least apologetic. Will we get new politics from the Dems this time or if we get a Dem sweep, is it right back to banning bbguns?
She's used a different factor suncream on her face than her body :headshake
FYI
Wasilla is *not* the second largest city in Alaska....
we were cracking up last night when we saw that on Stewart.
Wow, long time no see seakdivers. Welcome back.
I'd really like to hear a local's perspective on the republican VP pick. Care to weigh in?
(ps, without looking it up, I'd say Fairbanks is the second largest city in Alaska)
Michael Palin's beard is fake as well, but you'll have to find your own link...
Michael Palin's beard is fake as well, but you'll have to find your own link...
:lol2:
Didja hear that the "pit bull with lipstick" used to be a "barracuda" as a point guard in high school?
I heard the RNC played Heart's
Barracuda in her honor.
Ooops.
Republicans Take Heart; Heart Takes It Back
Today 7:47 AM PDT by Gina Serpe
Ann and Nancy Wilson are hoping the Republicans change their tune—and aren't planning on waiting until November to find out.
The sisterly duo known as Heart sent a cease-and-desist notice to the McCain-Palin campaign Thursday afternoon after their hit "Barracuda" was used—twice—without permission as the official rallying cry for the vice presidential candidate after her nomination acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention.
For people like me, who dislike tyrants much more than they'd ever dislike Republicans, that is a selling point.
Not too many objections from this quarter.
But there are many who think tyrants and Republicans are one and the same.
Silly Wilsons - one you've released a commercial recording and your publisher has signed licensing agreements with ASCAP or BMI, nobody needs your permission to do a damn thing with your song in a public venue. You got paid your 30 pieces, so sit your asses down.
Turns out she didn't sell that governor's jet on E-bay as everyone is claiming. That's a bit of an embellishment. She tried and failed to sell it on E-bay, so she sold it to a campaign contributor instead. And she didn't sell it for a profit as some have stated, it was for a typical used vehicle discount.
The E-bay thing makes a good story,
but it simply isn't true. Why lie about it? The actual truth makes a good enough story. They should have gone with it in the first place.
With so little actual info on Palin and only two months to figure her out, there is a lot of room for people to project their expectations onto her. And before anyone says anything, Obama has a voting record and over a year of campaigning behind him. The plan for Palin is to hide her as much as possible from anyone who will ask any difficult questions.
For example, it's great that she is a role model to parents with disabled children since she has been caring for her child with Downs Syndrome for the past few months. As a parent of a disabled child, I applaud this. What people don't realize is that personal experience does not translate into policy.
Bush's "compassionate conservatism" has been a disaster. While most people see this as an indictment of Bush, a lot of the GOP sees it as an indictment of compassion. McCain is promising old style conservatism. He is also promising to continue tax cuts. He is also promising to balance the budget and reduce the debt without raising taxes. There is no way to do this without major cuts in goverment spending. Right now social programs are the number one expenditure for government with military spending (defense and "War on Terror") at a higher percentage of GDP than any other major nation.
If McCain wants to make major cuts, Palin will be his hatchet woman. Noone doubts the woman is tough and self sufficient. What would be terrible is if she were used to make the case that any woman could be just like her if the government would just stop helping.
Maybe the future holds something like this:
"When my children went hungry I just went out the back door and shot a moose. I really don't see the need for food stamps." Note: This is a parody. There is no indication that Mrs. Palin said this or anything like it. I am simply making the point that 'being one of us' does not automatically mean 'being with us'. Ask the NAACP how happy they are with Clarence Thomas.
Factiod: Marie Antionette did not actually say 'Let them eat cake'.
McCain is promising old style conservatism. He is also promising to continue tax cuts. He is also promising to balance the budget and reduce the debt without raising taxes. There is no way to do this without major cuts in goverment spending. Right now social programs are the number one expenditure for government with military spending (defense and "War on Terror") at a higher percentage of GDP than any other major nation.
That's the GOOD point Rich. I don't want another "conservative" who outspends his predecessors. I want a conservative who actually remembers that FISCAL CONSERVATIVES are a big part of his support base. I want programs cut. I want bullshit expenditures to go away. I want earmarks and pork barrel spending to end. I want a smaller government.
McCain may get elected and not follow through on any of his promises to do those things and I'll be pissed about it. I certainly won't vote for someone who wants MORE programs, more earmarks, more government involvement in my life.
When pointing out these supposed flaws in McCain, you might remember there are an awful lot of people out here who see those as his strengths.
I was directly affected by those programs. With the help of government assistance, my Mom was able to raise four kids while going to college. All four of us went to college because of financial aid from the government. All four of us are now productive adults who GLADLY pay the taxes that support those programs.
Good for you. That experience probably means you support the government programs that helped you. Loyalty works that way.
If the money was just given to you so you could go to school with no strings attached and no need for repayment I'll gladly see the program cut though.
I do understand your viewpoint Lookout. The support my Mom got was the bootstraps she needed to get her above water so that she could support her family. Once she got her degree, we were off welfare and food stamps. Hers is a success story for the way it should work. There are many others who just use the support endlessly without making an effort to improve their situation. I would hate to see the support just cut though because of those bad apples. It needs to be regulated and monitored.
Just a side note....
The doctor who delivered me and my older two brothers, REFUSED to treat us when we went on welfare. We also had to wait years to go to the dentist until my Mom started teaching and she had Blue Cross Blue Shield.
here is the deal though Pico. Every election cycle we hear horror stories of the evil conservative who wants to starve out the working poor and chain them to a life of perpetual poverty - "THEY'RE OUT TO GET YOUR FOODSTAMPS!" type of BS. Truthfully most fiscal conservatives fully support welfare programs as a crucial safety net for society. This is life and bad shit will happen. We as a society must be prepared to help the single mom with four kids put food on the table if she isn't able to do so with her current skill set.
Foodstamps? sure, for a specific amount of time.
Governement housing? sure, for a specific amount of time with benchmark rewards for moving towards self sustaining employment.
Education grants? Sure, should be performance based for continued support and negative repurcussions if they choose to leave the program.
Medical care? Absolutley, and again should be tied to some sort of benchmarks leading to a completely self sustaining citizen.
Fiscal conservatives are usually against the big government expansion programs like national healthcare, corporate bailouts, and earmarks.
it is important to remember that fiscal conservative and republican are not synomyms. I want a fiscal conservative in the white house. truthfully I'd like to see a whole lot of them in washington.
Just a side note....
The doctor who delivered me and my older two brothers, REFUSED to treat us when we went on welfare. We also had to wait years to go to the dentist until my Mom started teaching and she had Blue Cross Blue Shield.
The doctor refused to treat you? he wasn't a participant in the state healthcare system then. most doctors only work with select insurance plans and sometimes you have to choose a different doctor based on your converage.
i don't have dental coverage today. i haven't had it in several years, actually. Dental insurance and straight white teeth, desireable as they may be, are not a right. I feel proper dental care is very important but when I weigh the cost of dental insurance against the actual cost of the care - i choose to pay the dentist out of pocket. yes, i know not everyone can do that. that's life.
Damn, it would be really nice if political campaigns did that kind of talking instead of the button pushing they do.
Its a shame that instead it is always so divisive.
The doctor refused to treat you? he wasn't a participant in the state healthcare system then. most doctors only work with select insurance plans and sometimes you have to choose a different doctor based on your converage.
i don't have dental coverage today. i haven't had it in several years, actually. Dental insurance and straight white teeth, desireable as they may be, are not a right. I feel proper dental care is very important but when I weigh the cost of dental insurance against the actual cost of the care - i choose to pay the dentist out of pocket. yes, i know not everyone can do that. that's life.
I just know the story by how my Mom tells it...its still rankles her today.
BTW, just because I don't support a government program that benefited you doesn't mean I loathe you. If the program exists, you'd be a fool not to use it without embarrassment. As an individual I don't feel the government should be as involved in our lives as it is. I don't care for perpetual entitlement programs because I believe they suck people into perpetual poverty - the very thing the programs are created to prevent.
just my opinion.
Then there are those of us with liberal ideals who find themselves becoming quite cynical after seeing so much abuse of the system.
There are so many who benefit from government programs, and I agree that the whole system need not go based on those bad apples, but to call the bad apples few would be an understatement of some proportion.
You and your family should be very proud of your success; in my opinion you are the sort of people the programs were made for. I just wish I could say you're the norm, though.
lookout: just an aside about your comment about education aid being performance based. It is. The regulation in place to hinder "professional students" is called Satisfactory Academic Progress, and is monitored by any school participating in Title IV programs. There are three factors assessed (we do it after every term):
1) Percentage of credit hour completion in any one term
2) Minimum GPA in any one term
3) 150% rule: student must complete declared program within 150% of the required credit hours for that program For example, if a program is 60 credit hours, student must complete that program within 90 credit hours. ALL attempted credits are considered: withdrawals, re-takes, transfers.
Appeals must be supported by professional third party documentation.
Still, the abuses boggle the mind.
Good to know about the 150% rule cous. I also feel that, depending on the type of aid received, there should be some obvious type of career path associated with the degree pursued.
Absolutely. A student must declare an eligible program, in the beginning, to be eligible for fed/state aid.
Ideally, they would also seek career counseling. Even more ideally, they would weigh their career choice against the 40 grand in loans they take out because they don't want to change their lifestyle (i.e. sacrifice) in any way, shape, or form.
Sorry but dishonesty and hypocrisy in a candidate is important to me, even if it's in their home life.
I'm falling between two stools re financing my higher education at present.
I admit - it's unlikely to benefit anyone other than me. But who knows, after working for a degree in my spare time I might have more confidence in my own abilities and go for a more demanding job.
I don't earn little enough to get a full grant or even a part grant (£16,500 for full grant, £17-something for a part grant). The next jump is up to £25k, taking my £19.5k in its stride. Oddly, the other set of finances, to help with course fees, is between £24-£32k. My "household" is me and Diz, and we only bring in the aforementioned £19.5k.
So I'm waiting to hear what they come back with. At present I'll get some funding, leaving me to pay something like £160, which is eminently do-able. Just seems a shame that singletons are not properly covered. And that there is no recognition of London weighting (property is up to 3x more expensive than other areas, although wages are probably only about 1/3 higher). I know, I know. I should move. But I love it here now.
Anyway, back to McCain.
You've hit the nail on the head of a universal problem that no one cares to notice.
A single working adult with no dependents gets the shortest end of the stick every time. We are the forgotten population.
It's better to be unemployed or have 20 kids, or both.
Next in line on the short stick are middle class families.
You've hit the nail on the head of a universal problem that no one cares to notice.
A single working adult with no dependents gets the shortest end of the stick every time. We are the forgotten population.
Next in line on the short stick are middle class families.
Well I'm in the divorced with kids group and I feel like I get pummeled, when I was married it wasn't nearly this bad.
When I was a working adult with no dependents, I had a lot more disposable income than now.
Of course...it costs money to raise kids. The difference is exemptions and EIC. My positive tax liability goes right into other family's pockets. Funny though, I don't remember having anything to do with the pregnancy.
Working adults with no dependents rarely have a negative total tax liability.
I see over 700 tax forms a year. I know of what I speak.
Funny though, I don't remember having anything to do with the pregnancy.
That's the wrong angle to look at it from. You pay for public schools too, even though you had nothing to do with those pregnancies either. It's not about their tax liability versus yours. It's, as you mention, the
negative tax liability that is unfair. There should never be a financial
gain from having children (for example, the EIC.) That introduces the wrong motivations.
You're right. I always tend to be sensitive on the subject. I'm really talking about the $5000 PROFITs I see...I don't get that.
But deep down I do feel it takes a village...
Then again, at staff today they were talking about even more programs for single mothers and I mumbled to my friend (a nice lady and a mom) "for pete's sake, they have nothing but special programs. I got a program, show 'em how to use a condom." She snorted.
I have nothing against the single mother... far from it. (You all know I love kids, right?) I just see SO much benefit for them in so many ways when Jill Schmo is working at Wendy's, has no kids, and can't get any help at all. She's penalized for not getting pregnant, in a way.
I got a program, show 'em how to use a condom." She snorted.
Me too!
