The Cellar - An American Place?
I'm sorry.
One of my least attractive characteristics is a tendency to brood.
When I mentioned that the Cellar was a US-based forum recently, Flint picked me up on it. I honestly can't find it now. His response - as I remember it - was that it doesn't matter where the forum is based, the internet is international. My point was that to a foreigner, this is a very American place.
This thread is not about proving me right and certainly not about proving Flint wrong. I'm just interested to know if anyone else sees a difference between American/ other posters.
Personally I never realised there was such a difference between Brits & Americans til I came here. And there are many things/ words/ phrases/ products I thought we had in common that we don't. But then I find many things in common that I thought were quite local to me. And certainly many TV programmes I never guessed had crossed the divide.
And you? Have you had any perceptions confirmed or denied? Are we you and you us? Are we really foreigners?
Any input welcome. I'm just lancing a boil.
what your british!?
oh my gosh!! say it aint so!
No, there is NO you and us...not in my perception. Just a lovely soul :muse:
I think everyone here has such, um, unique characteristics, that it's hard for me to even classify any group of us as distinctly American, Brit, or whathaveyou...and then be able to see the differences between those groups.
I think you're both right.
The majority of posters are in the US, so it does seem like an american board in that it would not occur to us americans to specify that we are talking about american subjects when we do... while foreign content is usually noted as such.
But like flint mentioned, there is a disproportionate number of posters from philly, and being one of them myself, it doesn't occur to me to specify that I am talking about a local phenomenon when I am, I just assume that some will know what I'm talking about and others won't. Not a big deal either way.
I would love to see more non-americans (is that the pc term for ferriners?) join and post. Especially pics and videos...
Yes, it's very American. But not necessarily "Average American". The people here tend to have a sense of humor which has more in common with the Brit and Aussie senses of humor than your average joe on the street (in my experience) ...those who don't get offended quickly and leave.
Very few people who have not lived on the both sides of the Atlantic for an extended period of time, have any idea how different the US and UK are -the commonality in language lures us into a false sense of security. But they are very different and I regularly find myself thinking "oh, I wonder if the Brits will understand that?" (usually, not as in understand the words literally, but more the context behind them).
it's not necessarily a bad thing -it's not like it's an Americans-only thing, but yes, it's very American. There are many types of "very American" --huge place as this is-- this is just one type. A good type. (in the main ;))
The difference becomes most obvious in the politics forum, which is more that a little incredibly American. Only Dana is brave enough to face that time and time again. Most of the rest of us furriners are too scared of the "friendly fire" ;)
I would love to see more non-americans (is that the pc term for ferriners?) join and post. Especially pics and videos...
Americanly Challenged or AC
Americanly Challenged or AC
Patrioticaly Challenged? ;) :p
The difference becomes most obvious in the politics forum, which is more that a little incredibly American.
You probably get the same feeling there as I get in the Parenting forum.
that sounds about right, except it's not called the American Politics forum..... :p
To illustrate the difference between Brits and Americans:
I used to have a British ex-pat neighbor. His wife's car sported a bumper sticker that read "Paul Revere was a snitch!"
He was honestly afraid that he would offend me, what with me being a rabid patriot and conservative. When I found out, I made a point of telling him I found the sticker hilarious and not offensive in the least. We then shared a good laugh over the different points of view.
He also refers to the American Revolution as the American Rebellion. Again, just a different perspective.
Brian
... Very few people who have not lived on the both sides of the Atlantic for an extended period of time, have any idea how different the US and UK are -the commonality in language lures us into a false sense of security.
As I was walking into an outdoor cafe near the canal zone in Panama City, a young man (late teens - early twenties) with black hair and brown skin got up from the table where he had been seated with others and approached me. With a Spanish accent he asked in English "Excuse me, are you American?" I replied "Yes." He exclaimed "I'm American too!" I said "Yes, I know ... I'm North American." He looked down; then, up again and said "You're OK, would you like to join us?" I respectfully declined (I was with coworkers and choosey about where we sat for security).
It's noteworthy that "Americans" who speak English as a second language (not just those residing in the rest of the Americas; but, US citizens and non-citizens residing here) have not found their way to the Cellar in the numbers that primary English speakers from elsewhere have. Perhaps a common language offers a
real sense of security.
list of countries by native English-speaking population
the top ten:
1 United States 215,423,557
2 United Kingdom 58,100,000
3 Canada 17,694,830
4 Australia 15,013,965
5 Ireland 3,750,000
6 South Africa 3,673,203
7 New Zealand ≥ 3,008,058
8 Jamaica 2,600,000
Hong Kong if ranked separately 2,500,000
9 Trinidad and Tobago 1,145,000
10 Singapore 665,087
Personally I never realised there was such a difference between Brits & Americans til I came here.
A common heritage separated by language.
Yes, it's very American. But not necessarily "Average American". The people here tend to have a sense of humor which has more in common with the Brit and Aussie senses of humor than your average joe on the street (in my experience) ...those who don't get offended quickly and leave.
Yea but is that a symptom of the kind of forum environment that exists so it would tend to attract a certain set of people while fending others off? There is a forum for every kind of personality type out there, US or UK or whatever.
I think the differences make it different and fun. All are welcome, as far as I'm concerned.
How are those language and cultural differences felt because honestly I don't understand.
I never occured to me to think of this as an 'American board'
ok where are the NON American boards so I can go compare?
Here's the thing: I agree this is an American board in the sense that it is populated by mostly Americans and there are cultural references that are assumed or missing because of it.
BUT when you say it's an "American board," you risk implying that it is unwelcoming to anyone who is not American, and I hope everyone can agree that is far from the case. Maybe it's an "American-heavy board?"
It is very welcoming. Yes it is American-heavy, but even that sounds negative. It might just as well be called intelligence-heavy or open-minded-heavy.
Sky you won't see the cultural and language differences because you are not the foreigner here. I can point some out to you if you're interested - I didn't initially because it might have sounded like a complaint. I choose to post here and I have no issue with the demographic at all. I guess I just wondered if anyone else acknowledged it.
Dana described Monster as our translator the other night - and not just in language (we're exposed to enough American TV/ movies to work most things out). But more to do with culture and attitude. In fact I think Monster works more to translate us for you - or at least me. A couple of times she's advised me that the thing I am protesting is quite normal and acceptable. I appreciate it.
I do welcome the differences. It's the same reason I love to travel in the UK, and travelled abroad when I had the funds. I like to eat other people's bread and drink their beer.
Well, it saves buying my own ;)
So, my MIL is here visiting from the UK. (Banana Lady) She's been here many times. In one sentence she managed to use three phrases that stuck out: Swimming Baths (Pool), Changing room (Locker Room) and Costume (swimsuit). Not that you wouldn't have known what she mean in the main, but the language is that different. So it feels alien. (not unwelcoming, just alien).
Brits see a lot of American movies and TV, and read American books, so they're pretty used to the language, but Americans don't get to see a lot of Brit films unless they seek them out, Brit TV shows are usually dubbed or remade with American actors and books are Americanized before being published here. So Americans don't get an accurate exposure to British English, so it's harder for them to realize how different the language is.
How often in the day do you (Americans) use the word "gotten"? Brits don't (in the main). How often do you use the word regular? Regular sized.... most common use in UK is to describe bowel movements that are not abnormal. We use "normal" when we mean average, everyday, not big or small or unusual in anyway.
...but on to what Sundae is stressing in her post, there are activities and situations in each country that are accepted and perfectly ordinary that in the other country would be totally bizarre. American... Halloween.... I saw ET and thought the Halloween scene in that was just part of the fantasy. Brits -it's not, it's like that and more. Americans, Halloweem in UK is little more than teenage louts demanding money with menace. In the US, there really is steam coming out of the grids in the city streets, and there really are yellow traffic lights strung over the road swaying in the wind. We Brits assume these are romantic elements of America past when we see them in movies. Americans, the thatched cottages you get to see are almost all gone -too big a fire risk, too expensive to maintain. That is a romantic element of England past.....but it sells. I could go on, but I won't.
I love both places, I'm really happy here in America, I don't think the board is unwelcoming to Brits, but it is American in the main.
Ok where are the NON American boards so I can go compare?
For the record, this is the
Channel 4 News Forum.
We only have 5 official channels and Channel 4 has the best news (opinion - mine and the people I work with full-time).
I post occasionally, but it's a fast moving board, don't look for me.
I have no idea if you will feel foreign, I haven't searched it out in order for you to do so, it's just one of the few British boards I post one. I'm not trying to compare it to the Cellar - it's based on a British TV show (albeit the news). I just don't know many others with a British feel.
hi SG,
I am not interested in making an account and too lazy to search for you I did go read the first page and I didn't see anything but english type written by humans. :P
Even when I read other countries newspapers I still don't see the 'foreigner' aspect.
I am sorry you feel this way. When my canadian friend tells me he had a 'pint' I know he means a beer. My mind dosn't scream foriegner. I love hearing about his Ukranian heritage which includes alot of food I have never heard of and it is in these subtle differences that make life rich and valuable.
I think this board is valuable for having people from around the world. It makes a rich community and a place where people can learn from one another.
From the first time I ever saw your posts I thought,"there is the nicest person there, that sundae girl person" :)
Sky, PLEASE don't think I have a problem with this board or I am upset at being a foreigner or I have an issue with Americans! There is nothing for you to feel sorry about - I am posting on the best forum on the internet and everythig I post is exotic because I come from England (;))
I only posted the forum example because I felt I was wimping out of putting my money where my mouth is. Of course no-one should have to go to another forum to prove *my* point.
For the record, some differences you would see are: British-centric political debates - real importance given to British issues; the Government always means the Houses of Parliament; discussions on the NHS are not usually focussed on why it's worse than private healthcare; education debates NEVER feature the idea of scrapping state-funded education; anything stating "we" refers to (at most) the UK; disparaging remarks about popular culture feature people/ programmes/ magazines that you won't have heard of etc etc etc
Please take on board what Monster (a transplant between the two countries) has written.
I like people regardless of nationality. Always have, always will. And here I have a wonderful example of a community where I have been welcomed and allowed to make the occasional aside without being run out of town. Hell I can happily post something Just For The Brits and am never called on it.
I dunno. Maybe not seeing the foreignness is another cultural difference. I can't count Clod. She's ditched the Texan accent to the extent she's practically British anyway in my eyes anyway.
Sky, if you permit, when I see, I will "translate" some of your future posts into British. You currenty come across as very American, although clearly you do not feel so. You may not even be American for all I know, but since I've been here, you've had stars and stripes in your aura.
And please let me repeat at this point that no-one here is saying that being American is a bad thing..... just maybe all y'all don't realise just how "different" that is from the rest of the world -that fact that we understand the words you're saying doesn't neam we interpret them in the same way. Lots of room for misunderstandings created by the myth of a common language.
Feeling black, much, Sundae?
This whole thread is a little like the "equality and diversity" conversations all over the US -especially in education and government, but pretty much everywhere.
Black People: We don't feel heard/understood. We know we're in the minority, but that doesn't mean we are wrong -we just have cultural differences, and maybe we know different things that could help We just want to be involved.
(much silence....)
{we're at this point now}
next to come:
White people: My Bad. We don't have enough diversity, this committee is all white but we represent black people too.... does anyone know of a black person who think like us? or maybe someone brownish? Mr Cohen? Awesome. Well, if he can't make the regular Friday night neetings, then he can't be really committed to the cause....
SG, I know what you're saying and I agree with you. I don't think you've said anything bad and I don't think you should feel bad for bringing it up. So to answer your question; no, I don't think you're the only one who's noticed it.
I definitely think of the Cellar as a primarily 'American' place. By that I mean it is primarily American in culture and tone.....not that it has borders and gates and passport checks on the way in.
This, to me, is a good thing. I actually don't post on English forums much. I am a member of one, a Politics forum. It is not as entertaining as this place is. When I was into massively multiplayer games, I played on the American servers wherever possible, even though it often meant the game ran sluggishly and I had to become virtually nocturnal whenever I wanted to play in a large group.
I loved being a brit amongst the Americans in those games. Like here, there were many different nationalities involved, and like here there was no sense of exclusivity based on nationality. The differences between us are sometimes startling, other times mere hints. They can be frustrating but more often they're intriguing.
monster I think has an interesting point about how much more exposure we (Brits) generally have to American language patterns and cultural references than you (Americans) have to the British equivalent. We may be more conscious of the differences because of that exposure. In my lifetime, I have seen the language of my country change and adopt aspects of American English. Gaol has become Jail, for example. Gotten.....not used much here, but I find myself using it from time to time. Gas station instead of petrol station, I hear from time to time also. Okay, hi, yeah (instead of the more English yeh) are all common now. Not saying this is necessarily a bad thing, but its definitely happening.
Even so, most British contact with American language and culture is passive in nature. It is television and movies and books. What's marvellous about the Cellar is it is not passive. The American language and culture is being actively expressed and meeting up with the British culture as that is actively expressed (and Australia and New Zealand etc). It's in that meeting of two actively expressed languages and cultures that we can see how distinct they really are; a fact, as monster says, which is often hidden by the shared basic language. I have often found myself arguing the toss in here only to realise that we are using the same words to mean different things, or that a word which is purely functional here is culturally loaded there, and vice versa.
Sky, chill babe, nobody's attackin anybody or complaining about the cellar. Sundae picked up on something from another thread and decided to examine the question in its own right. Is it an American board? Yeah, I'd say so. Not exclusively so, but culturally and demographically, it is primarily American. Mind you, there's an argument to suggest that the internet is much the same ;P
I definitely think of the Cellar as a primarily 'American' place. By that I mean it is primarily American in culture and tone.....not that it has borders and gates and passport checks on the way in.
This, to me, is a good thing. I actually don't post on English forums much. I am a member of one, a Politics forum. It is not as entertaining as this place is. When I was into massively multiplayer games, I played on the American servers wherever possible, even though it often meant the game ran sluggishly and I had to become virtually nocturnal whenever I wanted to play in a large group.
I loved being a brit amongst the Americans in those games. Like here, there were many different nationalities involved, and like here there was no sense of exclusivity based on nationality. The differences between us are sometimes startling, other times mere hints. They can be frustrating but more often they're intriguing.
monster I think has an interesting point about how much more exposure we (Brits) generally have to American language patterns and cultural references than you (Americans) have to the British equivalent. We may be more conscious of the differences because of that exposure. In my lifetime, I have seen the language of my country change and adopt aspects of American English. Gaol has become Jail, for example. Gotten.....not used much here, but I find myself using it from time to time. Gas station instead of petrol station, I hear from time to time also. Okay, hi, yeah (instead of the more English yeh) are all common now. Not saying this is necessarily a bad thing, but its definitely happening.
Even so, most British contact with American language and culture is passive in nature. It is television and movies and books. What's marvellous about the Cellar is it is not passive. The American language and culture is being actively expressed and meeting up with the British culture as that is actively expressed (and Australia and New Zealand etc). It's in that meeting of two actively expressed languages and cultures that we can see how distinct they really are; a fact, as monster says, which is often hidden by the shared basic language. I have often found myself arguing the toss in here only to realise that we are using the same words to mean different things, or that a word which is purely functional here is culturally loaded there, and vice versa.
Sky, chill babe, nobody's attackin anybody or complaining about the cellar. Sundae picked up on something from another thread and decided to examine the question in its own right. Is it an American board? Yeah, I'd say so. Not exclusively so, but culturally and demographically, it is primarily American. Mind you, there's an argument to suggest that the internet is much the same ;P
Actually you have misread me. I've only been contributing as S.G asked and trying to reassure.
I don't think anyone is attacking anyone or complaining. I think I have been positive and just making points like the brits do. I am a very low key person.
To repeat. I wouldn't know if anyone was british if they hadn't made it a point to let people know.
I think this sort of thing is the coolest part about the internet for me. I've had friends that I've never met who live all around the world. In a given day in my MMORPG I used to log on early and talk with my friend from japan, help him practice his english, then go and play with my american friends, from all over the country, and then spend the early evening with my british friends. We've argued and had to re-explain words and phrases that aren't common to one another, and we all just think it's damn cool that we know someone from so far away. One of my friends used to sit and lecture me about american gov't just because he knew I was american, and he didn't have any other american friends. He was shocked to learn that I don't agree with some policies, and even more shocked to find out which things he thought were true, and which were stereotypes. It was fun for me, showing him another (different) side of americans, just as it was fun for my first australian friend to talk with me on the phone. (He put me on speakerphone while he was at a party once, so that I could talk with his friends...because I have such a funny accent.) Then a few weeks later I let my best friend talk to him online, and she was confused and didn't understand a lot of what he said...which I found suprising. So even without noticing it, I had absorbed enough australian thought pattern/slang/whatever to translate the things he said to her.
Regarding the cellar individually, I joined because I got the feeling it was primarily based out of pennsylvania, from speech and subjects and of course the number of posters who live here, so I would agree that the board probably feels primarily american, with delicious dashes of foreigny-goodness.
i think all you furrners need to wear special tags so's we can tell ya apart. don't want none o' yer treacherous types slippin in amongst us red blooded a'merkens.
Oh right.
You know who else made people wear special tags don't you?
Yellow stars much?
Shocking, shocking.
I'll have you know I only have one oven and you have nothing to worry about. Now get back in line.
I have two ovens. The gas isn't working in one of them though. You thought waiting on a delayed plane was bad... ;)
I'll have you know I only have one oven and you have nothing to worry about. Now get back in line.
Choooo chooo! I feel a train ride is in order.
Such a rich field to pick over.
There are things to like and dislike about both, they are the same yet very different.
I don't think you would ever see a show like Two Fat Ladies on US TV
And I doubt that very many US comedy shows make the grade in the UK.
n Flinto notice how bland and non committal my threads are these days?
Mike, the point was never to compare the two and say which was best.
It was just to acknowledge that to those of us coming in from the outside, this place has a really American feel.
I think that's been proved by the fact that those who see it are not American, and those that don't, are.
The enigmatic Michael (owner of AG) has returned to fix some of the broken features, like Online Users...currently:
United States of America (7)
Canada (2)
Denmark (1)
Mexico (1)
Netherlands (1)
United Kingdom (1)
How's that for international? The total number of non-Americans is almost equal to the total number of Americans. Is that an "American" board?
No idea, I never go there.
The total number of non-Americans is almost equal to the total number of Americans. Is that an "American" board?
That may be so, but the largest single nationality is American.
There are 304,738,000 people in the US, but only 60,587,300 in the UK. Does that make the world an "American" world?
It's the trends. There were 271,645,200 people in the US ten years ago, and 59.236.500 people in the UK ten years ago. The US increase is 10.8% while the UK increase is 2.6%.
There are 304,738,000 people in the US, but only 60,587,300 in the UK. Does that make the world an "American" world?
lol. I'm tempted to say yes :P
[youtube]rq2_YKQGE_U[/youtube]
lol. I'm tempted to say yes :P
I'm keeping my tongue firmly in-cheek, but to follow this line of thought to its logical conclusion I would have to say that if the WORLD is "American" then an "American" board would simply be representative of reality.
hahah fair point, Flint, can't fault it.
But....to take my tongue out of my cheek for a moment: the analogy doesn't really hold up. The internet does not contain all of humanity, merely those who choose to take part in it. The world however, contains all humanity. If you ask me, does the fact that England has far more British people in it than any other group, make it a British country, I say yes.
It's the trends. There were 271,645,200 people in the US ten years ago, and 59.236.500 people in the UK ten years ago. The US increase is 10.8% while the UK increase is 2.6%.
that's because we're all moving here :)
Yeah but, if they aren't Cellar members, or at minimum Cellar lurkers, they're nobody.:lol2:
hahah fair point, Flint, can't fault it.
But....to take my tongue out of my cheek for a moment: the analogy doesn't really hold up. The internet does not contain all of humanity, merely those who choose to take part in it. The world however, contains all humanity. If you ask me, does the fact that England has far more British people in it than any other group, make it a British country, I say yes.
Unless you can demonstrate a statistically significant difference in internet usage among people, divided along international lines, then I have to assume that the portion of the population who is on the internet is an equal factor among different nations.
And I'm not saying there isn't one, but, between the US and the UK? I can't see a reason for that.
hey geeks? STFU. that's all.;)
Go play with your Star Wars toys, fanboy!
Current "online users" at AG:
United States of America (3)
Canada (1)
Bolivia (1)
India (1)
Mexico (1)
Peru (1)
Sweden (1)
This is the board where I cut my teeth. I've always thought the internet was a big ol' melting pot. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around the concept of an "American" internet site.
Unless you can demonstrate a statistically significant difference in internet usage among people, divided along international lines, then I have to assume that the portion of the population who is on the internet is an equal factor among different nations......
I have to disagree. Surely access to the technology, which is at least partly defined by wealth, is a major factor in the representation of nationalities on the innernets?
And I'm not saying there isn't one, but, between the US and the UK? I can't see a reason for that.
What is the difference in "access to the technology, which is at least partly defined by wealth" between the US bullies who dominate this board and the poor UK outcasts who don't get a fair shot at being heard?
I'm not saying there will be an equal number of Afghanis or Rwandans here.
It's also partly defined by available infrastructure. You're right, Flint, that the difference between the US and the UK is less than that between the US and some other countries, but we are still behind you in terms of coverage. We've started catching up, but that's quite a recent phenomenon. During the dial-up days and even into the beginnings of ADSL, BT had a virtual monopoly on all but cable connections. About three years ago their ability to control the overall infrastructure was removed; that and the burgeoning of broadband has opened the market up quite a bit. It is still very expensive here compared to US internet prices and consequently access is less spread across the economic groups.
I'm waiting for the first Dwellar from Papua New Guinea.
AG online users right now:
United States of America (4)
Canada (4)
Italy (1)
Mexico (2)
United Kingdom (1)
[Other] (2)
Y'know, I really don't understand what is so difficult to accept about a community which began as a Philedelphia affair and then grew into a wider community with members from far flung places, but the largest portion of which are still in America, being an American board. That doesn't mean it is exclusively an American board. It merely means that the dominant culture is that of America. This is not a bad thing. I do not believe members like myself, who post here from other countries, feel like they are any less a part of the community than the American members are.
London is a cosmopolitan city and there are people of every culture and background, cheek to jowl and living as citizens. It is still, fundamentally, an English city. An English city which has become more than that, a world city.
This is an American board, but it is an American board which has become more than that, a world board. It is both.
I kind of view it as a Philadelphia board that's been taken over by the internet.
AG online users right now:
United States of America (4)
Canada (4)
Italy (1)
Mexico (2)
United Kingdom (1)
[Other] (2)
Can ya do it by post count? :3eye:
Y'know, I really don't understand what is so difficult to accept about a community which began as a Philedelphia affair and then grew into a wider community with members from far flung places, but the largest portion of which are still in America, being an American board. That doesn't mean it is exclusively an American board. It merely means that the dominant culture is that of America. This is not a bad thing. I do not believe members like myself, who post here from other countries, feel like they are any less a part of the community than the American members are.
London is a cosmopolitan city and there are people of every culture and background, cheek to jowl and living as citizens. It is still, fundamentally, an English city. An English city which has become more than that, a world city.
This is an American board, but it is an American board which has become more than that, a world board. It is both.
What she said.
As far as I can tell in this thread none of us non-US citizens have objected to the American flavour of this board, or said we feel excluded. It is simply a description, in the same way that another board I frequent is definitely a British board, because the majority of the content is contributed by a particular nationality/culture.
I'm deeply offended that you would see this as an american board. i call you a manc tart to make you feel at home afterall.
AG online users right now:
United States of America (4)
Canada (4)
Awwk, that's too Canadian. Those northerners are a problem.
What kind of beer is that in the tip mug? That should answer the question.
Well it sure as hell doesn't look cloudy and warm..
I think limey put it best. The culture is American on this board regardless of how welcoming some members are.
It doesn't matter though. I don't know why some Americans are so upset at the assertion. Why does it matter?
It looks like a fourex, but that'd make it NZ nowdays.
It was actually a Sam Adams variety that I found I didn't like.
I agree with SundaeGirl, DanaC and Limey. This board is an American board from my point of view but it's not a bad thing at all. :) I haven't seen or read anything that would have bothered me because it is "too American" or anything like that.
Even though there are users from many other countries too, I don't think there would be nearly as much discussion of some local events of those countries compared to the things happening in the US. Maybe Australiand and Brits and some others could do that, but not so many other nationalities.
For example, I have no idea how many writers/lurkers from Finland keep coming here, but probably the discussion wouldn't be overwhelmingly active if I started a thread about some things happening here. :) But I visit some Finnish forums where I can discuss about those things, or keep lurking there too and just read the discussion of the more active writers...
From my point of view, it's nothing less than thrilling that the Cellar becomes more and more international. In its first 8 years of operation, it was a local phone call to reach, and so we were guaranteed Philly people and nothing but Philly people. People would leave the Cellar because they moved away!
I agree with SundaeGirl, DanaC and Limey. This board is an American board from my point of view but it's not a bad thing at all. :) I haven't seen or read anything that would have bothered me because it is "too American" or anything like that.
Even though there are users from many other countries too, I don't think there would be nearly as much discussion of some local events of those countries compared to the things happening in the US. Maybe Australiand and Brits and some others could do that, but not so many other nationalities.
For example, I have no idea how many writers/lurkers from Finland keep coming here, but probably the discussion wouldn't be overwhelmingly active if I started a thread about some things happening here. :) But I visit some Finnish forums where I can discuss about those things, or keep lurking there too and just read the discussion of the more active writers...
Well tell us something from a Finish point of view that you would consider to be a prevailing view among your country men... I mean besides we all suck or how bad the US is, something interesting.
I don't think there would be nearly as much discussion of some local events of those countries compared to the things happening in the US.
Give it a shot - I'd love to know whats going on there and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I don't think there would be nearly as much discussion of some local events of those countries compared to the things happening in the US.
but but but, that's cuz our stuff is actually important. being american and all.
I was at a PTO meeting a few months ago, and -as usual- they were moaning that we are "too white". We're a magnet school, so our demographics differ from the neighborhood the school is in. Which is a pretty white area. As usual we debate why/how ..........the more culturally diverse sections of the catchment area are over an hour's schoolbus ride away.....
and at the last moment of the debate, a black mom and former chair of the PTO (who resigned mid-term) pipes up (paraphrased): You ain't ever gonna get equality in the school until you really address the equity issues. Y'all say you want more "minorities", but you keep running it the white way. You're all so polite with whose turn it is to speak and not getting mad with each other. That's not our way. We get mad and in your face and you won't let us do that. That's not how we do it and why we feel alienated.
I got her point. I didn't realise before that moment that there were different ways of doing these things. She wasn't bitter, she didn't expect any change and ahe still is a part of it and apparently enjoys it, but it has hit a nerve for me....
but pretty much the rest of the PTO thought she was hallucinating because they know they have no skin color issues. And they don't. They just don't have any friends who have a different skin color to set them straight on what it is and how it feels to be black. or brown. or coffee. or caramel.... or green........
but the point being, because I was in the majority and was very used to the way thins run, it never occurred to me that anyone could perceive the setup as being biased. But it was. That understood, the mom didn't want us to change it, she just wanted us to realize that it was like a foreign language sometimes.
And I think that's all we non-Americans want. We don't want to change the board, we' don't even need a nod to the fact that you know we're not on the same page. We love how it is, but it is an American board and you guys just can't see that because you are American.
Sure, turn the meeting into a Gansta Ho slapdown, to make them feel more welcome. :eyebrow:
...it is an American board and you guys just can't see that because you are American.
That's not accurate, for me, at all. I recognize that there are different types of people from different places, but I don't obsess on it, or make threads about it. For me, the internet is all about
bringing people together, and there aren't any restrictions on that based on geographical boundaries or national affiliations.
This is from SG's original post:
Personally I never realised there was such a difference between Brits & Americans til I came here.
Exactly. The internet has brought us
together, allowing us to
learn about each other, and
now, we can focus on our common
humanity.
This is because the internet has no national boundaries. The internet is everywhere. To try to give it a geographical attribute is inherently illogical to me, and I just can't get past that.
There are no foreigners on the internet, only human beings. This is the new world order you've been hearing about. One world, one love. All that.
P.S. I don't notice anything different about this place that sets it apart from more "international" boards I have posted on. So that right there tells me that we are all just human beings with a lot of things in common no matter where we're from. To try to place us in categorized boxes seems superficial to me. That's not what the internet is for. It's for coming together, not huddling in homogenous lumps.
I think my point was missed by myself too last night. :) It's easier for Americans (and Australians and Brits) to talk about interesting events in their country, because the language is the same. If I linked to some Finnish newspaper and asked what do you think about it, I'd have to translate the article first, and unfortunately I'm way too lazy for that. :)
It doesn't bother me at all, and as I tried to tell, I have no problems about the Cellar being an American place (from my point of view).
I might start some threads later, but now I have about 7 minutes to turn off this terrible time-consumer (my computer, not the Cellar ;) ) and get to work...
Flint, unless you are frequenting international boards where English is not the main language, you are statistically likely to be on one where Americans are the mainstay of the board.
The reason I started the thread was because it really bugged me that something so obvious to me was being vehemently denied. It was like going through the looking glass. I had to reassure myself that in fact I wasn't crazy. I'm not obsessed by it, by any means. If I was I would start linking to this thread in other posts. Ahem.
Flint, just admit that you're wrong and we can all go back to being part of one glorious whole :grouphug: (Rimmer)
... To try to place us in categorized boxes seems superficial to me. ...
Somehow, I can identify with that.
[SIZE="7"][COLOR="White"]NoBoxes[/COLOR][/SIZE]
But then I'm frequenting international boards where English is not the main language.
sorry. i knew i shouldn't have joined in.
But no!
You are the most qualified. Don't start being stingy with your expertise now!
Flint, unless you are frequenting international boards where English is not the main language, you are statistically likely to be on one where Americans are the mainstay of the board.
My introduction to internet communities was a place filled with (English-speaking) Aussies, Cannucks, Kiwis, Brits, and fluent English speakers from all corners of the globe. English speakers are everywhere, and I'll remind you that it isn't an "American" language.
The numbers will be skewed towards Americans because we have a larger population, that's all.
To say that a place is an "American" board sounds like a description of its character, not a statistical analysis.
I don't think we can continue to indulge national characteristics as an important element of human interaction. That part of history is dying away, this is the future. We're all here together.
There is one human race. This is a HUMAN board.
The reason I started the thread was because it really bugged me that something so obvious to me was being vehemently denied.
...
I'm not "denying" it, I'm questioning its significance. Why should we pick apart the things that separate us, and put the focus on that? We're all human, and we all have more in common than the trivial, divisive cultural idiosyncraices we cling to.
It is American in character due to the statistic that the majority of posters are American.
Whether you choose to recognise it or not, there are differences between people of different countries. Ask Slang if living in the Phillipines is the same as living in America. Ask Monster and Perry Winkle if Britain and the USA are the same. Ask me if I saw any daily differences when I lived in France as a 15 year old (aside from the language obviously) It's not indulgent, it's the way things are. Denying that differences exist doesn't change anything.
Anyway, I got what I wanted from the thread. I know that other people see what I do, and that the people who don't can't or won't understand the point I was making.
Hurray! Once again I win the game! (Dr Carlton)
"Whether you choose to recognise it or not..." Where are you getting that I'm "denying" or "choosing not to recognize" anything? Please read my posts.
Other people "see what you do" becasue you don't have a unique insight. You're not contributing anything that isn't obvious.
People are from different places. Agreed. Obvious.
There are differences in people from different places. Agreed. Obvious.
As it isn't difficult to grasp these basic concepts, the question is what do we do now?
We're all here together in this worldwide community that has no boundaries whatsoever. For the first time in history, people from anywhere in the world can converse in real time, as if they were next-door neighbors. This is a major, important advance in human culture! This changes everything!
Oh, wait, but all SG cares about is that this is an "American" board. That is just sad, to me. It strikes me as small-minded. You've taken this amazing opportunity in human interaction and found something negative to pick apart and complain about. That actually turns my stomach a little.
You're the one who sees what I am saying as a problem.
I don't see this board as being a bad place at all. If I did, I wouldn't be here.
What do we do now? Eh? I don't need this place to change.
We carry on communicating, getting to know people, sharing details of our lives and learning what is different and what is the same and enjoying it. Those with turned stomachs are excepted of course.
As Monster explained, certain words and phrases, while still in English, carry different connotations in different countries. If you aren't cognizant of where the poster is from, you can misinterpret the post.
I think this shows up more in the daily banter than posts on serious international issues, but it's still important to flow of thoughts and feelings.
The cultures will slowly merge, and we accelerate the process.
You're the one who sees what I am saying as a problem.
I see that YOU have a problem or you wouldn't be saying anything in the first place.
What else is there to your observation, if not an implied complaint? It's obvious that we are from different places and have different things about us--in fact it's SO obvious that there's nothing there to make a thread about.
The second, unfounded complaint you have is that Americans have a "blind spot" to the obvious thing you think you are so clever for having observed.
___
The cultures will slowly merge, and we accelerate the process.
And the old-guard luddites will drag their feet at every step, constantly reminding us that we should stay segregated into little boxes that will be increasingly impossible to maintain the illusion of. I'm against that. If you hadn't noticed. There's no point in resisting the future--it comes whether you welcome it or not.
One thing that doesn't change in the Cellar no matter its make-up, we will find something to argue about.
As Monster explained, certain words and phrases, while still in English, carry different connotations in different countries. If you aren't cognizant of where the poster is from, you can misinterpret the post.
I think this shows up more in the daily banter than posts on serious international issues, but it's still important to flow of thoughts and feelings.
Fag?
Fag?
No, but he is exploring his softer side.
I see that YOU have a problem or you wouldn't be saying anything in the first place.
What else is there to your observation, if not an implied complaint? It's obvious that we are from different places and have different things about us--in fact it's SO obvious that there's nothing there to make a thread about.
Nope. I wondered if I was alone in seeing this board as inhererntly American in character, because when I posted that it was disagreed with. I can't be arsed to go back and count how many times I stated that it wasn't a problem, it wasn't a complaint, I didn't have an issue with it, I really like this board, I enjoy the different perspective I get here. Quite apart from the fact that anyone who reads my posts should know this anyway - I revel in the differences because of what they teach me.
The second, unfounded complaint you have is that Americans have a "blind spot" to the obvious thing you think you are so clever for having observed.
There's no second complaint as there is no first complaint. But questioning someone else's opinion isn't a complaint anyway. I don't think I'm clever for having a different opinion to some people on this board, no. And there are Americans on here who have seen what I am trying to say.
I am one of the Americans who has seen what you are trying to say. There is no difference in opinion, because the original observation isn't debatable--it can demonstrated by raw data, i.e. a greater number of American posters.
Now, putting that first-level, blatantly obvious aspect of the conversation to the side, there is the matter of what does this actually mean, in real-life terms?
You suggest that a person's nationality/geographical location should cause them to feel a distinct separateness, of all places on an INTERNET site (which has no geographical constraints)! This makes smoke come out of my ears. You're focused on the OLD model of human interaction. That isn't how things are done anymore.
If you feel out of place, on the internet, because of where you are physically at, then all I can say is "You're doing it wrong."
I see that YOU have a problem or you wouldn't be saying anything in the first place.
You get so pissy when you're losing. :lol2:
I think we're having two different conversations.
As Monster explained, certain words and phrases, while still in English, carry different connotations in different countries. If you aren't cognizant of where the poster is from, you can misinterpret the post.
I think this shows up more in the daily banter than posts on serious international issues, but it's still important to flow of thoughts and feelings.
So this was about word usage? Now THAT I can agree with but that's not what they are conversing about.
The cultures will slowly merge, and we accelerate the process.
I thought we already were.
And the old-guard luddites will drag their feet at every step, constantly reminding us that we should stay segregated into little boxes that will be increasingly impossible to maintain the illusion of. I'm against that. If you hadn't noticed. There's no point in resisting the future--it comes whether you welcome it or not.
This is why you can love/hate flint. That's so smart to be almost poetic.
I am still waiting for someone to tell Flint to chill though. My fair meter is blinking. He is way more to the point and the quick than I was.
That means he's blighter too.
ah never mind. It's payday hey! :)
No.
I'm really not saying that. I think you are taking what I have said and taking the next step - it's honestly not one I am taking, or am interested in taking.
This was my original post:
If you're going to denigrate every single "developed" country for their lifestyle, at least acknowledge them. If your issue is only with Americans then you might find a better audience on a US-only forum. This forum is US-based, but thanks to UT and the intelligence and experience of the American Dwelars it is a welcome home to a small but vocal "foreign" contingent, whose views are appreciated if not always accepted.
Bottom line - do your homework rather then posting a set piece. This is a community, not a soapbox.
I've even kept in the typo.
In this case Coberst was specifically criticising Americans, and I was actually trying to make the point (obviously very poorly) that in fact he was making points about the whole of the Western world, but giving American specific reasons for his conclusions. Which made no sense when his criticisms could be applied to any number of countries who do not have a common history with the US. I felt he was addressing the board as if it was composed solely of Americans, and that's certainly not true.
However, this lead to me explaining that if you post on a board where general terms like
the Government, the military, the schools, the sports industry, tv channels, advertising etc etc ALL mean The American Government, the American military etc and not the ones you (I) am familiar with and know how they work, then you do adjust your mindset slightly. It is barely noticeable after a while, but sometimes a thread will surprise you (football being an obvious example).
I don't want to feel different, to feel apart. I react to the people here - not their nationality. But if you took all the locations away then I would still be making the same adjustments. It's not a bad thing. I don't mind. I'm not complaining. I think I'm done.
I've tried to put my point logically. I've kept coming back because I felt I was being identified as something I'm not and my views were being twisted. But we won't agree, so really I'll just let my posts show that I'm not small minded or trying to pull anything apart. If they don't then that's my bad and I'll live with it.
So this was about word usage? Now THAT I can agree with but that's not what they are conversing about.
That's what Sundae was talking about... the Cellar has a American flavor because of the preponderance of American posters, that shows in the daily banter. How many "International" boards go on and on about Philly cheesesteaks?
Flint's railing against everyone that doesn't buy into his brave new world, because he wants people to forget he's from Texas.
THEY aren't having the same conversation.
I think you are taking what I have said and taking the next step - it's honestly not one I am taking, or am interested in taking.
That's exactly what I'm doing, because that's what I do. I'm sorry if I dragged you along the tangent I couldn't resist following.
It is interesting to see your original post:
This forum is US-based, but thanks to UT and the intelligence and experience of the American Dwelars it is a welcome home to a small but vocal "foreign" contingent, whose views are appreciated if not always accepted.
I don't categorize, in my mind, "foreign" posters into a "contingent." That's exactly the opposite of what I think the internet is for.
But to show you that I understand your point, let me propose this analogy: Being a non-American on a predominantly American disscussion forum might feel something like being a non-Christian in America. And God knows I've done my fair share of beating that subject to death.
But to show you that I understand your point, let me propose this analogy: Being a non-American on a predominantly American disscussion forum might feel something like being a non-Christian in America. And God knows I've done my fair share of beating that subject to death.
Thank you.
And btw I feel the same (albeit to a to a lesser degree, despite having a state religion) in the UK.
:grouphug:
Okay, huggy-thing, now jeez let's move on...
What? No! The whole point of fighting is the make-up sex, and you want to just rush through that part? That's just freaking... un-American.
Okay, huggy-thing, now jeez let's move on...
Don't bring Jesus into it now!
hey sundae girl? i was just wondering why you have such a problem with this being an american board?
My problem isn't with this being an American board, lookout.
My problem is with YOU.
you have a problem with me being an american? why do you hate our tall building Sundae? why?:sniff:
It's not your tall buildings we hate, its your freedom.
It would be nice to have an 'international news' section on the cellar. Maybe it would make it seem all the more inclusive. I for one would love first hand reports of the goings on of other countries by their citizens.
It's not your tall buildings we hate, its your freedom.
STILL no freedom from taxes! We got to pay for all those bridges leading to nowhere.
(not a metaphor)
It would be nice to have an 'international news' section on the cellar. Maybe it would make it seem all the more inclusive. I for one would love first hand reports of the goings on of other countries by their citizens.
I don't think that's needed. I doubt there are non-americans on here who feel uneasy about including news items from their own countries in the regular forums. I know I feel quite happy to include English news, and I know plenty of us post news items from various different countries, not necessarily our own. The only limitation on local news is one of language, and there's not really much we can do about that.
The current affairs and politics forums are already international, in that they contain stories and events from many different countries and are posted by a mixed community.
news from...outside the US? that's what war reporters are for right?
It's not your tall buildings we hate, its your freedom.
:lol2:
It's not your tall buildings we hate, its your freedom.
Fries, Dana. Freedom fries.
news from...outside the US? that's what war reporters are for right?
I know you hate superior Europeans, but it's true. I can only think it's due to our education. I can't think of many Brits who don't know that New York is the capital of America, and can name the two other major cities (Disneyland and Hollywood).
Philadelphia is the Capitol, silly.;)
Fries, Dana. Freedom fries.
I no you hate stuperior Uropeans, but it's trew. I can only think it's doodoo to our ejukashun.
Fixed it for ya
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundae Girl
Fries, Dana. Freedom fries.
I no you hate stuperior Uropeans, but it's trew. I can only think it's doodoo to our ejukulashun.
Fixed it for ya
Fixed it for ya
touche' - well done ya British commie tart.
I just wandered into the public library computer room to look up a hint for my Sherlock Holmes game, and I have to say...you guys are the best. This thread signifies all that is Cellar, imo: point, counterpoint, passion, friends, acceptance, debate, even a little irritation at each other. It's a great read.
That is all.
:)
I was just going to make fun of the land that has produced Katie Price, er Prince, or whatever the hell her name is... but then I remembered we have Britney and Lindsay Lohan.
On second thought I'll just link to her wiki page. check out those measurements Elspode.
Big Boobs McCluskie