Virtual World versus Real World

coberst • Jul 6, 2008 2:01 pm
Virtual World versus Real World

Wo/man worships and fears power; we enthusiastically give our loyalty to our leader. Sapiens are at heart slavish. Therein lay the rub, as Shakespeare might say.

Freud was the first to focus upon the phenomenon of a patient’s inclination to transfer the feelings s/he had toward her parents as a child to the physician. The patient distorts the perception of the physician; s/he enlarges the figure up far out of reason and becomes dependent upon him. In this transference of feeling, which the patient had for his parents, to the physician the grown person displays all the characteristics of the child at heart, a child who distorts reality in order to relieve his helplessness and fears.

Freud saw these transference phenomena as the form of human suggestibility that makes the control over another, as displayed by hypnosis, as being possible. Hypnosis seems mysterious and mystifying to us only because we hide our slavish need for authority from our self. We live the big lie, which lay within this need to submit our self slavishly to another, because we want to think of our self as self-determined and independent in judgment and choice.

The predisposition to hypnosis is identical to that which gives rise to transference and it is characteristic of all sapiens. We could not function as adults if we retained this submissive attitude to our parents, however, this attitude of submissiveness, as noted by Ferenczi, is “The need to be subject to someone remains; only the part of the father is transferred to teachers, superiors, impressive personalities; the submissive loyalty to rulers that is so widespread is also a transference of this sort.”

Freud saw immediately that when caught up in groups wo/man became dependent children once again. They abandoned their individual egos for that of the leader; they identified with their leader and proceeded to function with him as their ideal. Freud identified man, not as a herd animal but as a horde (teeming crowd) animal that is led by a chief. Wo/man has an insatiable need for authority.

People have an insatiable need to be hypnotized by authority; they seek a magical protection as when they were infants protected by their mother. This is the force that acts to hold groups together, intertwined within a mutually constructed but often mindless interdependence. This mindless group think also builds a feeling of potency. The members feel a sense of unity within the grasp of their leadership.

‘Why are groups so blind and stupid?’ Freud asked; and he replied that mankind lived by self delusion. They “constantly give what is unreal precedence over what is real.” The real world is too frightening to behold; delusion changes this by making sapiens seem important. This explains the terrible sadism we see in group activity.

Questions for discussion

Is there a vital difference between human sciences (such as psychology) and natural sciences (such as physics)?

Is it possible for humans to create a virtual world that is more important than the real world? What is the difference between a virtual world and the real world?
DanaC • Jul 6, 2008 2:15 pm
I feel like I've just wandered into an exam hall.
Undertoad • Jul 6, 2008 2:59 pm
You know for a moment there, I banned him. But what I decided to do is one better: I turned on instant thread notification for him.

A copy of all messages added to his threads will be sent to his Hotmail account, immediately as they're posted.

This one will be the first. You post unsolicited messages? You gottem right back buddy!
HungLikeJesus • Jul 6, 2008 3:09 pm
Undertoad;467149 wrote:
You know for a moment there, I banned him. But what I decided to do is one better: I turned on instant thread notification for him.

A copy of all messages added to his threads will be sent to his Hotmail account, immediately as they're posted.

This one will be the first. You post unsolicited messages? You gottem right back buddy!



If nothing else, it will make his threads very popular.
Clodfobble • Jul 6, 2008 3:27 pm
The Real World: San Francisco vs. Wayne's World

[COLOR="Silver"][Wayne's World totally wins.][/COLOR]

Virtuosity vs. Reality Bites

[COLOR="silver"][Russell Crowe FTW.][/COLOR]
HungLikeJesus • Jul 6, 2008 3:31 pm
FTW?
Clodfobble • Jul 6, 2008 4:01 pm
For The Win
DanaC • Jul 6, 2008 4:37 pm
I like virtual worlds. I really, really like them.
regular.joe • Jul 6, 2008 4:57 pm
Will anything posted by Coberst help me to survive on the battlefield?
Sundae • Jul 6, 2008 5:33 pm
I have an insatiable need. It's not to be hypnotised by authority though.
smoothmoniker • Jul 6, 2008 5:34 pm
Sorry, I dozed off there for a minute ... did I miss anything?
Sundae • Jul 6, 2008 5:38 pm
Well we were all just agreeing that Freud was right.
In fact I've just confessed that I want to have sex with my father and I have penis envy. And if I get upset about anything it can be classified as hysteria which makes it directly realted to the fact I have a womb.

Oh and if I have therapy I will fall in love with my therapist even if he is a dirty old Austrian who hates women.

That's about all.
classicman • Jul 6, 2008 6:49 pm
" Originally Posted on another forum:
coberst has posted in only 1 thread that he didn't start.
By definition this makes him a troll, so you don't need any justification to ban him.


coberst has made 422 posts.
coberst has started 150 threads


I have no comment - just sharing info
Aliantha • Jul 6, 2008 7:12 pm
The real world is better than the virtual world. People make assumptions, that is, they make up the bits they don't know about people to fill in the blanks, in a virtual world.

This is never a good way to go.

Any virtual world is a good place to visit once in a while, but it's better to live in the real world.
Aliantha • Jul 6, 2008 7:17 pm
Is there a vital difference between human sciences (such as psychology) and natural sciences (such as physics)?


Yes, psychology is the study of thought and human behaviour. Physics is the study of the natural world. It has very little to do with human behaviour.

Is it possible for humans to create a virtual world that is more important than the real world? What is the difference between a virtual world and the real world?


Yes plenty of people do. That's why we have the internet and mental facilities. The difference is that virtual is not real, and real is real even though it's still a construction of our prior learning.

Or you can just go and watch the matrix. That movie will tell you the opposite of what I've said.
DanaC • Jul 6, 2008 7:37 pm
People make assumptions, that is, they make up the bits they don't know about people to fill in the blanks, in a virtual world.


Hmm. Not sure that's peculiar to virtual worlds, Ali. People fill in blanks and make assumption, because that's what we do....we search for patterns and meaning in what we experience, real or virtual.
Sundae • Jul 6, 2008 7:38 pm
My cat's name is Mittens.
Aliantha • Jul 6, 2008 8:38 pm
DanaC;467194 wrote:
Hmm. Not sure that's peculiar to virtual worlds, Ali. People fill in blanks and make assumption, because that's what we do....we search for patterns and meaning in what we experience, real or virtual.


Of course we do. It's all a part of creating meaning. I think it's more prevalent on the internet though, and if it happens to be a virtual world of our own making, well then of course everything is made up.

In a real world relationship between two people, we can observe the way they carry themselves, how they look when they speak. We can see the body language attached to certain statements and know if they're serious or not (largely). We can see how they react to their surroundings. We can hear tone of voice etc. Of course, all these observations are then processed through the filters we've developed due to our own prior experience, but we still then are able to make a better assumption based on our own understanding rather than the grossely wrong ones we are more prone to in a virtual environment.
monster • Jul 6, 2008 10:18 pm
Undertoad;467149 wrote:
You know for a moment there, I banned him. But what I decided to do is one better: I turned on instant thread notification for him.

A copy of all messages added to his threads will be sent to his Hotmail account, immediately as they're posted.

This one will be the first. You post unsolicited messages? You gottem right back buddy!


well now i feel compelled to reply
monster • Jul 6, 2008 10:19 pm
more than once, in fact
lumberjim • Jul 6, 2008 10:21 pm
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jinx • Jul 6, 2008 10:21 pm
my cats breath smells like catfood
monster • Jul 6, 2008 10:26 pm
Hey, dude, I got your answer about the virtual world vs real world right here (old dwellars need not follow the link, especially at work, all y'all have seen this almost poetic rhetoric before....)
Troubleshooter • Jul 6, 2008 10:47 pm
All things are virtual as they cannot be directly perceived by sapience.
Flint • Jul 6, 2008 11:25 pm
coberst;467142 wrote:
...
Questions for discussion

Is there a vital difference between human sciences (such as psychology) and natural sciences (such as physics)?
...

Yes, the difference is that human sciences are a subset of natural sciences--
unless one allows that human sciences follow a separate "magical" set of rules.
skysidhe • Jul 7, 2008 1:43 am
Isn't question #1 the same as question #2? I think so.

What does Frued got to do with your questions? Except to say that the only time ole siggy got into the physical world was when he noticed phallic shaped objects otherwise he was too much into his head trying to dictate and disect the virtual world of others.
xoxoxoBruce • Jul 7, 2008 3:37 am
regular.joe;467161 wrote:
Will anything posted by Coberst help me to survive on the battlefield?
Isn't the military a virtual world?

By the way, freud was full of shit.
coberst • Jul 7, 2008 6:11 am
I would say the difference between a virtual world and the real world is that the real world is grounded in literal experience whereas the virtual world is not grounded.

SGCS (Second Generation Cognitive Science) informs me that we have literal experiences that become sources for abstract ideas or part of other literal experiences.

The conceptual structure of a literal experience is mapped into another mental space to become part of another concept. For example: the experience of warmth resulting from being held by the mother is a literal experience that can be later mapped onto a subjective concept of affection. This means that the subjective concept then contains some or all of the conceptual structure of the literal experience of warmth. That is why almost everyone senses a feeling of warmth when feeling affection for someone.
xoxoxoBruce • Jul 7, 2008 7:55 am
Gee, all this time I thought that warmth was from rapid heartbeat, and subsequent blood pressure increase, causing increased blood flow through the smaller capillaries near the surface of the skin, where the nerve endings sense the increase in skin temperature. Silly me. :rolleyes:
Undertoad • Jul 7, 2008 8:06 am
This means that the subjective concept then contains some or all of the conceptual structure of the literal experience of warmth. That is why almost everyone senses a feeling of warmth when feeling affection for someone.


I'm pretty sure this was a Lionel Richie song in the late 80s.
classicman • Jul 7, 2008 8:48 am
coberst;467281 wrote:
I would say the difference between a virtual world and the real world is that the real world is grounded in literal experience whereas the virtual world is not grounded.


Sorry, but the real world "experiences" you speak of are all biased by an individuals PERCEPTION. Perception is reality and therefore all that which one "experiences" is based upon ones perception.

The problem lies when ones perception is skewed. I submit that every person's perceptions are altered by their respective realities. They are skewed by the sum total of each individuals life experiences, environment, personal perspective and general mood/emotional state.

So although the real world may have literal experience, it still may or may not be "real" based upon the individuals perspective.
Shawnee123 • Jul 7, 2008 10:24 am
Huh? I say, I say, HUH?

Boy's got a mind like a steel trap. Rusty, that is. [COLOR="Silver"](Not you, classic)[/COLOR]
HungLikeJesus • Jul 7, 2008 10:56 am
As Albert Einstein said, "The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny, however, is alleviated by their lack of consistency."
classicman • Jul 7, 2008 11:08 am
Shawnee123;467324 wrote:
Boy's got a mind like a steel trap. Rusty, that is. [COLOR="Silver"](Not you, classic)[/COLOR]


Oh, I don't doubt that mine is rather rusty at this point -
Shawnee123 • Jul 7, 2008 11:17 am
You are not practicing Critical Lubing.
lookout123 • Jul 7, 2008 1:26 pm
he is so. just not in the way you're thinking. i tell you the things classic could teach you... i once heard about this trick he does with a chicken, a duck, a turkey, a goat, and a half bottle of crisco... i think he called it the classgoaturducken.

wicked cool.
classicman • Jul 9, 2008 11:06 pm
half a can of crisco!