We are readers
I recently suggested
Achewood to a dude at work. "Oh this involves a lot of reading," he said. He was not interested in a comic that required reading. He prefers
Cyanide and Happiness.
Dwellars, we are readers; we read and consume the words. We type at various speeds, but our primary characteristic is that we are readers. We connect the words to the real people behind them, because we take the time to understand the words and understand the motivations behind using them.
are you saying "people" are readers? or Dwellars are readers?
Reading.is.good. Fundamental even. I was recently discussing this with my boss, speaking about kids and reading. Reading teaches vocabulary, writing, and analytical and judgment skills. I don't care if you have a degree in whatever--if you are not a reader, you don't sound or come across as educated.
Personally, I have a hard time with comics or graphic novels of any stripe. Not enough words to read! I can appreciate them, for the art, the story, and the concepts, but for enjoyment--give me a nice fat book anytime.
I was standing in a queue to buy a couple of books in whsmith's yesterday (dr who books, but don't hold that against me :P) and there was a guy sitting at a table signing books. A woman and her fella who were in the queue behind me were vocally wondering what was going on up there and I ended up in conversation with them. I can't recall exactly what led to this comment, but the woman said something along the lines of: I wouldn't even buy a magazine, let alone a book. I joked that I am the other way, in that I spend way too much money on stuff like that. She then went on to tell me that she'd only ever read one book, "A Child Called It".
She was clearly exaggerating slightly, because she went on to say that the second in the trilogy was just a rehash of the first, but can you imagine that? Can you imagine identifying yourself as someone who has only ever read one book and would never dream of spending money on reading material?
Can you imagine identifying yourself as someone who has only ever read one book and would never dream of spending money on reading material?
I know people like that. It's weird. Ignorance is not sexy to me.
I remember seeing a horrible statistic about how the majority of Americans never read another book in their lives after leaving high school. That is so incredibly hard for me to fathom.
Ah yes,
here's where it came from. The statistic is certainly bogus since A.) it is immediately followed by a contradicting one
One-third of high school graduates never read another book for the rest of their lives.
58% of the US adult population never reads another book after high school.
and B.) there is a third contradicting stat that actually has a credible citation:
2002. 57% of the US population read a book. See report.
http://www.nea.gov/pub/readingatrisk.pdf
So many times I have heard people say, "Oh I used to love reading, but I read so much at University it put me off..."
What? That's like saying I breathed too much yesterday, I think I'll cut down today.
Scary to think that these people are two levels of education above me, with the paperwork to prove it.
Yea. I thought being literate was a standard. I have had people refuse to read important things because they are "too long". wtf is going on with people not giving a crap enough about anything to read? What's with closing libraries because of the internet? Where do people think real content comes from, and what is credible source anymore to anyone? What are facts and where do they come from if you can not read and it is not fashionable to do so? I have to dumb things down everywhere for marketing purposes so people will latch on to stuff they were interested in, in the first place. Why do I have to package things because people won't read. It's stuff they like in the first place because my stuff is extremely targeted. People are so stupid right now. It's a matter of writing so people will read it, short packaged terms, make it pretty, and make it so some stupid assistant doesn't throw it out somewhere in the world. Why? Because she/he doesn't know her boss is interested and that is exactly what her/his boss does for a living but she/he doesn't know enough to fucking read. I am sorry for my rant. I am tired of dumbing things down for people and making it look pretty. If it's too wordy people trash it. I am a reader and writer and this is starting to piss me off and my age is showing. I learn a lot from the older and wiser. Why? Because they read and absorb. They have a bit of continuity that is sadly lacking. They have character. If you don't love books or reading do not breed. Sorry. Ok. Done.
I don't mean all of that, I just get tired of packaging valuable things in a dumbed down fashion. It's expected and you do it.
I want to fight it. But that will go where? Nowhere. Newspeak people. Newspeak. No ready writey. Pretty picture with words on it.
The details make the body of everything. Everything is a compilation of details, wtf is wrong with people? Everything is the sum of parts and if you can not describe those parts what do you know? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And no I am not going to source wikipedia here on illiteracy.Ok I'm really done, for real. Touchy subject I guess. Carry on.
(I guess I am not actually done here)
I think this is what Socrates was describing long ago. And now we are at our worst. Globally 'merican. Speak our lingu-age. I am tired of dumbing things down even for readers like you. I start speaking at work and one person understands me there, even though I am intentionally being direct and accurate one-hundred percent. I have to package things tightly just to talk to our owner. They think I am a freak because I can speak and write eloquently and be incredibly stupid. It's the intimidation factor. I always wage that. If I am talking over everyone's heads they think I am crazy when I know and few others know I am dead-on. Whatever. Even my husband thinks I am crazy because of things I know. There are lots of things I read and know about. I have actualized my reading material that came from all ages but people do not get a thing. I am "crazy" because I am smart, not a genius, and I know it. Part of being resourceful is reading the entire body of something including all the details. I read authors that write about one word for 200 pages font 9. I am a reader of the worst kind becuse I care about what I read and judge from there and question everything if I think I need to. I feel sorry for the scholars in a world of chaotic stupidity. They are doomed and lost for good reason.
Extra long post.
:D
Thanks for listening.
I've been a reader all my life. And have been referred to as a f@##$$ing know it all, by the less informed. Guess I'm ill mannered, but i keep a book on kitchen table.
hit a nerve, there, Cicero, lol! What things are you "packaging?"
It's all relative. Since last August I've been a volunteer tutor for a local adult literacy program. They assigned me a guy who was 32 and read about about a 3 1/2 grade reading level (aka an 8 or 9 yo). They currently have about 100 people waiting for tutors (my student was on the list for over a year).
*smiles* I loved being a literacy tutor. How are you finding it Steve?
lol! Sorry Cloud, I kind of went off the deep end there!
My Grandad is barely literate. In fact he's the last of my four grandparents and the same was true of all of them. They were supposed to attend school until they were 14 but the longest any of them made was 12 and they all had sketchy attendance from the start as they were needed at home.
I know of at least two late 50s early 60s regulars in the pub who can barely read. They shrug and say they manage to get by.
And countless others of my parents generation, and mine who can read and write reasonably but take no pleasure in either.
It's not a new thing is what I'm trying to say.
Bless the internet for bringing us together here.
[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]
but there's a difference between being literate and being a reader. Plenty of people I know are perfectly literate--educated even, but they don't read for personal enrichment or pleasure.
Plenty of people I know are perfectly literate--educated even, but they don't read for personal enrichment or pleasure.
That's the thing I can't get my head around. I have really good friends who just don't read except for their job. Others who, like sundae was saying, were put off reading by doing a degree. I can't imagine never reading for pleasure.
Sorry, I was making two confused but separate points.
The media here often get over-excited about literacy rates in this country. All part of the going to hell on a bandwagon thing. So I shoe-horned the fact that literacy rates have been far from perfect in previous generations into my response. It touches on the subject because both my parents love to read and taught me too as well. Read and love it I mean. Dad is dyslexic, finished school at 14 and missed plenty of time in between. He read The Lord of the Rings to my brother (I was 11, read it myself but was still horribly jealous).
My secondary point, and more to the OT was what Clod said and Dana reiterated. There are literate people worldwide who don't read for pleasure. But more confusingly, there are literate people who look down on reading for pleasure. As if it's something that should be left behind when you put down crayons.
To each his own and all that (I don't like boxing and wouldn't watch a fight live without an enormous bribe) but to dismiss all the various forms of reading as pointless. I have heard the "What's the point argument" and it is so alien to me.
And to anyone reading this I guess :)
IS this just a group pat on the back?!
That's the thing I can't get my head around. I have really good friends who just don't read except for their job. Others who, like sundae was saying, were put off reading by doing a degree. I can't imagine never reading for pleasure.
I rarely read books anymore because I always feel like I don't have the time, except in the summer when I sit out at the pool a lot. I do read though - I just read about stuff I want to know about, not stories and such.
I ran into that attitude (looking down on reading) in Mexico with my first boyfriend. He was always dissing me for reading (and for other things, but that's another story.)
There seems to be a cultural bias against reading, or perhaps intellectual pursuits in general. Maybe not at all class levels, but in the lower classes. A by-product of a near-universal 6th grade level of education, perhaps. If it's good-enough-for-me and a not-honest-work kind of thing.
We need to be careful how we present reading to kids. All of ours love to read. They virtually begged to be taught to read and were already fluent readers when they started school. But they saw us read and enjoy it and get lost in books and heard us read to them and go past their bedtime in order to reach the end of the chapter, and use the internet or go to the encyclopedia to answer all their questions if we couldn't....all the time.
If you don't see your parents reading, if they tell you they're too busy to read or they don't like it, if you turn up at school way behind some of the other kids.... you're already off to a poor start. And if the school is not then careful about how they present learning to read -if they ram it down your throat, treat it like a chore and make it obvious that you are not as good as some other kids.... well you're not going to view it as a pleasure. So you scrape through school reading the bare minimum to keep the assholes happy. And college if you have to. And then you never ever pick up another book again. And you have no need -you have the TV where the nice people read the words for you and even go so far as to tell you what you should think about it. Lovely. Easy.
Grrr. Breaks my heart when I go into the school and there are 1st, 2nd and 3rd graders who "hate" reading and refuse to try. Someone has set them up for failure. They're scared of not ever being able to do it properly, so they just don't want to try. reading is huge, it is important. but kids don't need to know this. Like anything else, the more they know you want them to do it, the more they'll dig their heels in.
Oh dear, i'm ranting....
I'm a bit skeptical of the party line, "if you love to read, and your children see you love to read, they'll be readers for life." Reason? One of my kids is a reader--the other isn't. And, obviously, I've been a reader all my life, and encouraged both equally. The not-reader doesn't read for pleasure, though she will read non-fiction in order to learn more about something she wants to know about or to answer a question.
Oddly enough, the not-reader is the child of the not-reader mentioned above (and the other kid, the reader-has a different father.) Doubt it means anything, but it makes me wonder.
Party Line? Please. no-one said it was written in blood, but it's a damn site harder for it to happen if they don't see that and hear negative things about reading.
The not-reader doesn't read for pleasure, though she will read non-fiction in order to learn more about something she wants to know about or to answer a question.
huh? The person you are describing is a reader. You may not get pleasure from reading to find answers/increase knowledge, but many do. Hell of an assumption there.
I just went to the book store Borders and just came back.
I was browsing books, on, ahem...meeting women and stuff..ahem.
There were these two really good books I was gonna purchase, something about "Beat the Shy" or something like that and one entitled "How to succeed with women." I was really excited to get these books!
Except...there was this girl I knew from high school working the register...I only knew her as an acquaintance, and for her to see me buying these books! :bolt:
Exactly the reason I need these books...
not sure what's irritating you there, Monster, but the "if your kids see you reading" thing seems to be a standard assumption of educators.
I don't think that daughter (No. 1) has read a single book all the way through since leaving school. That, to me, is a not-reader.
Maybe it's just by comparison, though. She will look at, and consult books on specific topics.
I just went to the book store Borders and just came back.
I was browsing books, on, ahem...meeting women and stuff..ahem.
There were these two really good books I was gonna purchase, something about "Beat the Shy" or something like that and one entitled "How to succeed with women." I was really excited to get these books!
Except...there was this girl I knew from high school working the register...I only knew her as an acquaintance, and for her to see me buying these books! :bolt:
Exactly the reason I need these books...
Amazon, dude.
not sure what's irritating you there, Monster, but the "if your kids see you reading" thing seems to be a standard assumption of educators.
I don't think that daughter (No. 1) has read a single book all the way through since leaving school. That, to me, is a not-reader.
Maybe it's just by comparison, though. She will look at, and consult books on specific topics.
Define Educator, please. I'm a parent. But so are you. I'm not a teacher.
Why don't you consider it reading if it isn't from cover to cover? non-fiction is set up to be read in sections, as needed. It IS reading. J'accuse of being a fiction snob.
um, you expect me to engage in some kind of pointless debate with you about semantics? Not my style.
Reading is good.
reowring up the wrong tree
nope. I expect you to put up or shut up, which you're doing, so that works :)
...but don't be down on your kid... just because they don't like to read the same stuff you do or in the same way you so, doesn't make them a non-reader. they need your support, not criticism. jmo, of course.
Could, my two sons have very different reading habits and they both have the exact same examples of reading from Daryl and myself. We both read for pleasure almost every night. We have shelves and shelves of fiction books at home suitable for the kids as well as for us (although we don't generally recommend Stephen King for the kids).
Our youngest boy can get so absorbed in a book it's to the exclusion of everything else. Aden would much prefer to talk on the phone or play computer games which we don't necessarily like, but it's his thing. Sometimes he likes to read and sometimes he doesn't. I don't think he'd care if he never read another book in his life, but I know Mav would.
Kids like every other person are different, and once they're old enough to choose what they do for pleasure, some of them are readers, and others aren't. Acknowledging that difference as a parent is fine too. I don't think it shows that you're not supportive of your child at all. It just shows that you know your child.
My sister sees reading the same way I see crazy golf. Something to do on holiday to pass the time, that's fun for kids but has no place in an adult's normal day.
Then again she has two children, so has a lot more to fit into her usual day.
No, it's not a time things really - it's an attitude thing. It's just not important to her, whereas it fills a big part of my leisure time one way or another (book, magazine, internet).
Monster, I wouldn't call someone who consults non-fiction books a reader. Other than in the most literal sense that they have read something. I have drawn people diagrams of how to get to my house, I'm not a cartographer. I'm also not a fiction snob - although it is far and away my personal preference. I knew a guy into the SAS (sad but true). He gobbled up everything he could find written about them - and nothing else. I'd still have called hiom a reader.
Monster, I wouldn't call someone who consults non-fiction books a reader.
I would. If they are just dippingin for necessity then that's a non-emotional way of accessing. But, if they adore reading about a period in history, or they just get a rush of excitement at reading about different types of warfare, or looking at diagrams and texts that show how engines go together.....if they emotionally connect then they are readers.
When I wrote "consults" I meant as in looking up a specific fact. Like using a dictionary, instead using a reference book as the means to an end. The book is a source and nothing else. The words "adore", "rush", "emotionally connect" would definitely signal a reader to me (as in my example above - he loved reading about the SAS, therefore he was a reader).
I devoured books as an adolescent. I loved to read. I read so much then because I had HUGE blocks of time with nothing to do. I was always looking for the next book to read. I was hooked.
Today, I read kids books every night to my kids. I read how-to books all the time when they are related to a project I'm working on. I've got a stack of books on my bedside table and I read for 15-30 minutes every night before turning out the lights.
But I really don't read novels anymore. I just don't have the time, or desire, or something, to get into a long novel. I read maybe 1-2 novels a year. I only want to read a novel if it's an outstanding novel, and it's hard to find those. I feel cheated when I've read a novel and it wasn't that good.
Dana, it's a fascinating, disturbing, rewarding, and humbling.
Except...there was this girl I knew from high school working the register...I only knew her as an acquaintance, and for her to see me buying these books! :bolt:
So go back to the shelf and pick up
Penthouse Letters Vol. XXXIV to add to your purchases. I guarantee, she'll never even remember you bought the other two.
Define Educator, please. I'm a parent. But so are you. I'm not a teacher.
Uh disagree there - you are the most important teacher your child will ever have.
So go back to the shelf and pick up Penthouse Letters Vol. XXXIV to add to your purchases. I guarantee, she'll never even remember you bought the other two.
:lol2: So very true!
I will take my group "pat on the back" as a member of the group. Why not?
;)
I think reading and non-reading is based on the regularity of reading anything at all, and the amount. I think it's quite simple.
If you are an involved, regular member of the cellar, you are a reader. Just take the compliment.
:)
Unless you want to be identified with the new non-reading "cool" class. I'm hip, not a reader. plbbbbt.
I just went to the book store Borders and just came back.
I was browsing books, on, ahem...meeting women and stuff..ahem.
There were these two really good books I was gonna purchase, something about "Beat the Shy" or something like that and one entitled "How to succeed with women." I was really excited to get these books!
Except...there was this girl I knew from high school working the register...I only knew her as an acquaintance, and for her to see me buying these books! :bolt:
Exactly the reason I need these books...
Put those books down and carry "You, Inc", "Talent is Never Enough", "Now Go Find Your Strengths", and one pleasure reading book to the register. She'll recognize you, talk to you, maybe about the books, maybe not, but she'll know you're not sitting around playing video games 23 hours a day. Hopefully you get the chance to chat, if not, you've got some good books and a little more experience in not being terrified of a woman.
You should have seen the look I got at the bookstore from the clerk when I special ordered, "How to Heal the Hurt by Hating"!!
It was a funny book, but the elderly clerk did not "get it". But I never actually gave a darn because they should be professional enough not to bat an eyelash at anything you buy or order, in their store.
As a response to what lookout said, I am uncomfortable when clerks notice my book habits and subjects, then ask me out. One time it happened right in front of my husband with him standing right there. But that might work for you fresh as a convo. starter.
we're obviously not reading about the Crimean war, though.
we're obviously not reading about the Crimean war, though.
umm....actually, I have been reading a couple of journal articles about the Crimean war this week :P
I'm not sure what you mean Clouder. I just
had to read about it, because you just wrote that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War
Not only that, I just realized that I had read about it before because of the volumes I, II, and III set of , memoirs of Napoleon, on my "favorites and rare" book shelf.
;)
I think "we" are reading a lot of things. On the cellar and off the cellar.
refer to the Balaclava thread
Mmm..that sounds delicious!! Alright I am so there!!
um, no, not that kind . . .
oh, nevermind!
lol!!
;)
She shoots, she scores!! ding ding ding!
So, I was at lunch today, sitting by myself reading a book, which I often do (just call me Eleanor Rigby); when my server, a pimply faced kid no older than 20, commented, "Oh, you're reading, that's good. Not many people read these days."
I'm sure he was only trying to connect, say something nice, in order to be a good server and get a good tip, but it left me nonplussed. What do I say to that?
Especially since I wasn't exactly reading great literature. In fact, I was was reading a vampire detective novel called "The Nymphos at Rocky Flats.":blush: I just kinda mumbled something like, "Yeah, well, I'm oldskool" and kept on reading.
I've got Nymphos of Rocky Flats. I recognized some of the locations because I used to work right next to Rocky Flats while they were cleaning it up.
that's cool--there's a sequel, too. may read it if I like the first one enough.
I've got Nymphos of Rocky Flats. I recognized some of the locations because I used to work right next to Rocky Flats while they were cleaning it up.
It's a picture book?
So, I was at lunch today, sitting by myself reading a book, which I often do (just call me Eleanor Rigby);
So here's something weird: back in the day when I would have lunch out by myself, I always felt like a huge nerd when I had my book with me. But I didn't feel weird at all if I picked up the Chronicle (local free alternative newspaper thing) at the door and just read that instead. Like if I had my book, then I must have already known that morning that I would be eating alone, so I must have no friends--but if I wasn't prepared and thus needed to browse through a Chronicle, well, sometimes lunches alone happen to everyone, right?
I also hated it when the waiters would ask me what I was reading and what it was about. Can't really explain why, I just don't like people watching me read or something.
So, --snip--
it left me nonplussed. What do I say to that?
--snip.
Bonus points for correct usage of nonplussed.
nonplussed != unimpressed (common irritating mistake)
I know what nonplussed means -- 'cause I'm a reader!
The above conversation about reading in restaurants put me in mind of
this:
Georgina: [
to Richard] He's dead. They stuffed him with pages torn from his favourite book. Could you cook him?
[In a book depository]
Georgina: Are we safe here?
Michael: Does Albert read?
Bonus points for correct usage of nonplussed.
nonplussed != unimpressed (common irritating mistake)
Never come across that misuse -perhaps it's local to your area?
"unimpressed" came up as one of the definitions in google:define. Not one I use, though
I eat by myself and read 90% of the time. I don't feel self conscious about it at all.
'cause I could mostly give a shit what people think
you want a shit? well, I could give you one . . .
i'm somehow reminded
in some small little way
of the beginning
(or, truly, the entirety of)
the play titled Sure Thing
by the wonderful David Ives
BILL: Excuse me. Is this chair taken?
BETTY: Excuse me?
BILL: Is this taken?
BETTY: Yes it is.
BILL: Oh. Sorry.
BETTY: Sure thing
(A bell rings softly)
BILL: Excuse me. Is this chair taken?
BETTY: Excuse me?
BILL: Is this taken?
BETTY: No, but I’m expecting somebody in a minute.
BILL: Oh. Thanks anyway.
BETTY: Sure thing.
(A bell rings softly)
BILL: Excuse me. Is this chair taken?
BETTY: No, but I’m expecting somebody very shortly.
BILL: Would you mind if I sit here till he or she or it comes?
BETTY: They do seem to be pretty late…
BILL: You never know who you might be turning down.
BETTY: Sorry. Nice try, though.
BILL: Sure thing.
(Bell)
BILL: Is this seat taken?
BETTY: No, it’s not.
BILL: Would you mind if I sit here?
BETTY: Yes I would.
BILL: Oh.
(Bell)
BILL: Is this chair taken?
BETTY: No it’s not.
BILL: Would you mind if I sit here?
BETTY: No. Go ahead.
BILL: Thanks. Everyplace else seems to be taken.
BETTY: Mm-hm.
BILL: Great place.
BETTY: Mm-hm.
BILL: What’s the book?
BETTY: I just wanted to read in quiet, if you don’t mind.
BILL: No. Sure thing.
(Bell)
BILL: Everyplace else seems to be taken.
BETTY: Mm-hm.
BILL: Great place for reading.
BETTY: Yes, I like it.
BILL: What’s the book?
BETTY: The Sound and the Fury.
BILL: Oh. Hemingway.
(Bell)
BILL: What’s the book?
BETTY: The Sound and the Fury.
BILL: Oh. Faulkner.
BETTY: Have you read it?
BILL: No! I’ve sure read about it, though. It’s supposed to be great.
BETTY: It is great.
BILL: I hear it’s great...Waiter!
(Bell)
BILL: What’s the book?
BETTY: The Sound and the Fury.
BILL: Oh. Faulkner.
BETTY: Have you read it?
BILL: I’m a Mets fan myself.
(Bell)
BETTY: Have you read it?
BILL: Yeah, I read it in college.
BETTY: Where was college?
BILL: I was lying. I never really went to college. I just like to party.
(Bell)
BETTY: Where was college?
BILL: I went to Oral Roberts University
(Bell)
BETTY: Where was college?
BILL: ITT Tech!
(Bell)
BETTY: Where was college?
BILL: Metro!
(Bell)
BETTY: Where was college?
BILL: Harvard.
BETTY: Do you like Faulkner?
BILL: I love Faulkner. I spent a whole winter reading him once.
BETTY: I’ve just started,
BILL: I was so excited after the first ten pages that I went out and bought everything else he wrote. One of the greatest reading experiences of my life. I mean, all that incredible psychological understanding. Page after page of gorgeous prose. His profound grasp on the mystery of time and human existence. The smells of the earth…What do you think?
BETTY: I think it’s pretty boring.
(Bell)
BILL: What’s the book?
BETTY: The Sound and the Fury.
BILL: Oh! Faulkner!
BETTY: Do you like Faulkner?
BILL: I love Faulkner.
BETTY: He’s incredible.
BILL: I spent a whole winter reading him once.
BETTY: I was so excited after the first ten pages that I went out and bought
everything else he wrote.
BILL: All that incredible psychological understanding.
BETTY: And the prose is so gorgeous.
BILL: And the way he’s grasped the mystery of time--
BETTY: --and human existence.
(Bell)
BILL: --and the smells of the earth
(Bell)
BETTY: I can’t believe I’ve waited this long to read him.
BILL: You never know. You might not have liked him before.
BETTY: That’s true.
BILL: You might not have been ready for him. You have to hit these things at the right moment or it’s no good.
BETTY: That’s happened to me.
BILL: It’s all in the timing. My name is Bill, by the way.
BETTY: I’m Betty.
BILL: Hi.
BETTY: Hi.
BILL: Yes, I thought reading Faulkner was…a great experience.
BETTY: Yes.
BILL: The Sound and the Fury…
BETTY: Well. Onwards and upwards.
BILL: Waiter--?
(Bell)
(
http://thunder1.cudenver.edu/cam/eport/theater/andy/script.htm )
you want a shit? well, I could give you one . . .
Never give a shit.
Makes your hands messy...
I eat by myself and read 90% of the time. I don't feel self conscious about it at all.
'cause I could mostly give a shit what people think
I like the way you think.
Me too.
Yeah, I have very little fear of doing anything alone, so have been known to go out to a non-fancy dinner and read a book or the paper. I would much rather see that than "starers." People who sit waiting for an appointment, or dining...and just stare into space. Or couples who go out to dinner and just slowly chew and stare off and don't even talk to each other. Or what I call "car-sitters," people who can't be bothered to go into the store but sit in the car just staring ahead. At least there's some mental stimuli in the store.
I'm sure most of them are solving the world's problems in their heads but some of them...I think they're just empty-heads.
I can't stand just sitting...throw a book, or magazine, or newspaper into my hands or my brain will idle and stall.
Yeah, I have very little fear of doing anything alone
I am always amazed when people tell me that they would never go to a movie by themselves.
When I go to a movie alone, I always take a book.
You could read, say, The Green Mile at a screening of The Green Mile, all the time shouting "The book is better!"
When I go to a movie alone, I always take a book.
You could read, say, The Green Mile at a screening of The Green Mile, all the time shouting "The book is better!"
Hilarious. You could keep blurting out things like "That doesn't happen in the book!"
Or even better things like "This person/event is a combination of two or more people/events from the book, condensed here for the purposes of communicating the major plot elements in a shorter period of time!"
Cujo would have been a better example from me. I'd be screaming "The kid DIES at the end of the book!"
F
U
C
K
!
I'm on page 283 cousin. couldn't you have given a spoiler warning???
omg you can't be serious. Are you? I mean, I really thought about a spoiler warning but kind of figured anyone who wanted to read it would have read it by now.
I am soooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry. He doesn't really die. In fact, the dog gets well and the boy and the dog ride off into the sunset while mom smiles and wipes a happy tear from her eye?
uh, thanks. i'll try to pretend i believe you. it doesn't matter since i read that book about two decades ago, but thanks anyway.;)
spoilers are fun. Mrs L and the girls went to see Sex and the City on opening night and there were oodles of people in line when they walked out. Her friend of course, wipes her eyes and stage whispers, "I can't believe they let Carie die." and kept on walking.
lol
Um, I'll probably never see that movie as I've only seen bits of the show and don't care for it. Do they really kill her off?
Am I just the most gullible person ever?
No they don't kill her. it was just the thing to do though. Unlike the pricks walking out of the theater in 1980 saying, "i can't believe vader is luke's father!"
I probably ruined Lord of the Rings for people, as I walked out I mentioned to my sis-in-law that "I remember there was a skirmish."
The film was all skirmish. :lol:
When I go to a movie alone, I always take a book.
That could easily be a Steven Wright quote.
Ohmigosh, I am HOME! Do you know how hard I have looked to find an internet community like this one? Intelligent, literate, readers! Who can be allowed to use profanity but not lean upon it like a crutch.
I have kids ages 10 and 12 and if being a parent who reads voraciously were enough to make them readers, believe me, they'd be readers. Alas, they are not. They are intelligent, do well in school and the 12 year old shows the makings of a fab writer one day...but they will not read for fun.
I blame the TV and video games. I never watch TV. Well, rarely, maybe twice a week for about an hour. It bores me and I almost always have to do something else at the same time. But my dear husband is one of those people who always have to have the damn TV on and it drives me batty. Say, I'm sitting on the couch READING a book, he'll come in from mowing the lawn or something, turn it on, then leave. As though he thought he was doing me a favor, resolving my TV deprivation. Ugh.
He has also accused me of "being antisocial" when I am reading. Oh well. Apparently the only time I am allowed to read is just before falling asleep, in bed. Any other time, there's other things I ought to be doing instead.
My parents were readers. My mom, especially. She died in December and I am clearing out her condo. I have counted the number of books to donate - just the ones I am not keeping. It's over 600. and about 400 of them are paperbacks purchased within the past 5 years.
My mom never wanted to give any of them away, but in the last year she finally agreed to start giving them to the library. I said - mom - let the library store your books for you, you can always borrow them again! That's why I don't have that many books, I just get them from the library when I need them. I have cards to six different libraries and I have used them all within the last six months.
But I am biased. I am an English major - facing my midlife crisis by returning to college full time. Good LORD I love school. You cannot imagine how much I ADORE being back in college. I am in heaven!
I am also a freelance copywriter. This gives me some insight into the dumbing-down of the average reader. I write for non-readers. I write to make them read, even though they don't think they want to. Quite a challenge, but I love it.
How do you decide what they will, and will not, read? I imagine there's a lot of anguish in the editing.:haha:
How do you decide what they will, and will not, read? I imagine there's a lot of anguish in the editing.:haha:
You use some gimmicks...gotta have an attention-grabbing hook, lots of white space, bold and italics, conversational tone, and nothing above a fourth-grade reading level.
Don't be too hard on your husband Juniper - my Dad was the same with TV all the way through my childhood - still is in fact. All his reading was done out of my eyesight except when he was reading aloud to us. I grew up a voracious reader, my sister not for pleasure and my brother... well - newspapers and internet. A modern reader.
Your children might "find" reading when they hit the right books. I know people it happened to in their teens. Otherwise, just take comfort in the fact they are intelligent and (I assume) value that trait in other people.
I am so happy to be working where I am now. In the first month I was a little put out that books were being passed round and not offered to me - despite the fact I identified myself as a reader. But I was new and bit my tongue. Now I've been there 4 months and I'm being included in the conversations about books. And people are starting to say, "I must bring that one in for you!" I thnk it was just a case of establishing myself.
Sadly, I lost a lot of my I-have-to-share-this-one books when I moved. If I'd have known, I'd have packed them very differently. Still - I got my poetry books, and they would have been harder to replace than bestselling paperbacks!
I blame the TV and video games.
If TV and video games were responsible for not enjoying the activity of reading, I'd be a virtual illiterate. I am TV obsessed, I watch many hours when I have the time. I love video games (but only play massively multi-player types) and have followed their development with utter fascination since I first sat down to an Atari games machine.
I can relate to the 'anti-social' thing. When me and J were together, very early on before he calmed the fuck down, it would drive him mad when I went into a reading mood. He got over it. But he didn't read for pleasure much himself, except for the odd political memoir, for a long time. He still wouldn't turn to a book as his first choice of entertainment now. But that doesn't mean he isn't 'literate'. He has a very deep understanding of narrative structure (son of a playwrite, it's in his veins :P) and a brilliant mind. he chooses to apply that to the narrative form of computer games, and to an academic analysis of what narrative means in computer gaming, and how it relates to the gamer's experience.
I find it a fascinating subject, the changing form of narrative and how we interact with that. I do not consider books tobe inherently superior to games, television, movies, theatre, or any other medium of expression.
Juniper, I know exactly what you mean about going back to college:) It's a wonderful experience isn't it? I enrolled at university in 2006 for a History degree and the last two years have been the happiest of my life. One more year to go and then on to postgrad, I hope.
To return to the reading theme: it can feel isolating to be amongst people who don't understand your love of reading. With my old circle of friends, before I moved away in my 20s, one of my defining characteristics was that I read books. One or two of the girls read magazines, and the lads would read computer manuals and glance at the sports news and the topless chicks in the tabloids. They all thought it was hysterically funny that I liked reading. I do not know why. We'd have the gang round, the lads playing Grand Prix, the girls kicking around and talking, occasional bursts of computer maintenance spilling out across the living room. This would go on for hours. I could handle it for a couple of hours, but I can only talk about banal shite for a limited amount of time before I run screaming to the bookshelves.
The lads I could talk to. I liked computer games, I could relate to them. The girls didn't appear to like anything. I am sat here now, desperately trying to recall what kinds of things we all talked about and I am drawing a virtual blank. A regular soap opera (Brookside) seemed to be their favourite topic. That and who was shagging whom.
Every group has roles within it. We fall into our place in the greater whole. My role within our little gang was to be the weird bird who inexplicably reads books:P (I don't count J in that description. He always understood what I got from reading and was as bemused by our friends attitude as I was). I just played up to it, fully embraced the eccentricity:P
It's funny Ju, we put the TV in the least comfortable place in the house because we consider it "anti-social". I guess it is perspective. Pete and I found we were watching a lot of tv and it was eating into our home time. I still have the habit of turning on the radio for no good reason, but today I'm listening to the rain on the steel roof, watching Pete make yogurt, and being anti-social on the interwebs. Maybe I'll get off-line and read some (really dated btw) Greg Bear.
Aaah. I woke up and read. Now I'm on the internet. I'm still on the internet using it as reference material to learn about new methods of puppy training. This is also reading, and I am being social enough to write to you guys about it.....I don't see one as being more important than the other.
Which one will be more effective in the long-run? I don't know. The Rilke I read this morning is related to dogs and the reference material I am looking up will be great, in a utililitarian fashion, and is of the same subject. Who knows? I don't think I've wasted any of my time at all. Anti-social? Maybe. But I don't apologize for being anti-social. There are times to come together with my husband and times to do my own thing. I think that's healthy.
There are times to come together with my husband and times to do my own thing.
Uh... er... [SIZE="1"]nevermind :bolt: [/SIZE]
Yes, I regretted that after I said it.........;) On many levels it doesn't really work for me. b'aaah!
Well, I didn't mean to sound so critical. I guess I just feel defensive of what Dana mentioned, being viewed as eccentric for reading.
Let me clarify. It's not that books are inherently superior to TV, video games, movies, theater, etc. All of those things can be wonderful, but 9 times out of 10 they are pure crap. Some TV shows make you think and educate you, some entertain you in stimulating ways, and some just yammer at you. I have no problem with sitting in front of the TV to watch a show. It's turning the TV on even when there's nothing good to watch, just to have it on, and watching anything...that I have a problem with.
I do value the ability to be alone with my own thoughts - or with other people, in the absence of external noise. Reading requires a different kind of effort and not everybody can get caught up in a book, some people just read and comprehend. But I think that is something that comes with practice, and if you don't put in the time, it can't happen.
As for the kids, it makes me a little wistful and sad that they're not falling in love with books the way I did; you love someone, you want to make sure they get the chance to experience all the wonderful things you've experienced. Like...say, someone says they don't want to go for a walk in the snow at midnight, and you drag them out anyway, and it turns out to be a beautiful thing they're glad they did.
*chuckles* indeed, Juniper, it would be nice if you could physically drag them through the wardrobe into Narnia.
Its a new world - the kids are getting input from a multitude of electronic sources. The written word is going the way of the daily newspaper...
True, but they are missing out on the wonder of the imagination.
Bastian made many other wishes and had many other amazing adventures before finally returning to the ordinary world . . .
I disagree classic. Books have never been so popular or so widely, and cheaply, available. When I walk into a Waterstones or Borders shop I see a dizzying array of books and its always full of people. There are more children's books and children's authors than there ever was when I was young. Books for tots, books for teens, dark books, fun books, bleak books, and colourful books. The market for books is vast.
The market is there and the forced summer reading programs here are a reason for much of it.
I have to say that the supply of books is vast, but the reason is pure economics. They must have whatever you want, because if they don't you will go elsewhere. They also have the food courts and all to keep you in the stores longer. They let you read the books for free. What other business does that? None, because its a failed model. There is no doubt that we are headed to a paperless world. (good for the trees) Books will be an inevitable part of that...soon.
How many of you still write out checks?
How many of you still write out checks?
From time to time.
What does paper have to do with anything? Books can be published in all manner of formats.
Me. For some things, anyway.
I still read books...real books, made with paper and everything. A LOT of books, actually. And I read them to my children. Ok, not the same books, but books with words and pages and covers and illustrations. They may never read another book once they get out of school, but at least I tried. I do read internet books occasionally, but really, there is nothing quite like curling up in an armchair with some hot cocoa or coffee and turning the pages of a good book.
Stormie
Please don't misconstrue what I'm saying. I am not defending the reality as I see it, nor do I like it. It is my opinion that the end of the written book, much like the newspaper or even magazine is near. I am no writer, but the reality is that books written on paper are not gonna be around much longer. Children today have the attention span of about 5 milliseconds. Everything in their world is immediate. Thats just a simple reality. As technology and that progresses - it will only get worse. I see it in young adults and even moreso in the teens and younger. Reading takes time, patience and effort, three characteristics lacking in the vast majority of our youth.
I don't know... As much as my kids love video games and TV, they both beg to be taken to the bookstore and read for at least an hour every night.
I believe you, but that is certainly not the norm.
It may not be the norm.....but nor is it rare.
Except among teenage boys. Most are going blind from too much... you know... ;)
I don't value electronic books as much as the other.
I am going to admit that, and I am not ashamed. I have a fetish for old and/or rare books. I like physical libraries more than online libraries. Off course, I am an old bag so that explains a lot.
:)
I have a fetish for old and/or rare books. I like physical libraries more than online libraries. Off course, I am an old bag so that explains a lot.
So do I. I have a (admittedly rather small) house full of books. I used to have a library but had to give away my book collection when I moved house. I gave away hundreds.
I love everything about books. I like the way they feel, I like the different textures of paper, I like the way books, especially very old ones, smell. Doesn't stop me enjoying a story accessed in some other way.
For the record, I love books also. I have many many, very old ones that I cherish. I still firmly believe their days are numbered.
I still firmly believe their days are numbered.
As it is with all things. Ideas are now rarely transmitted via papyrus or vellum.
I mentioned my mom's death and her collection of books...part of my inheritance from her is 6 paper boxes full of really old books, dating from the 1830's. Some are school books like McGuffey Readers with scribbles in them, names of family members long gone. others are cheap penny-dreadful novels. I love every one of them.
and your point?
That people have been proclaiming the death of books for a long time. Much as the death of radio has been proclaimed.
My other point is that you said that the 'written word''s days were numbered. I disagree. The written word takes many forms. Paper books are merely one way of transmitting it.
The market is there and the forced summer reading programs here are a reason for much of it.
But to back up Dana's point - we don't have that here. There has been a massive resurgence in children reading which the media like to pin on J K Rowling. Rubbish of course - the media only picked up on Harry Potter when The Prisoner of Azkaban knocked Hannibal off the top of the bestseller list in the week it was released. Even without children I'd heard the buzz from my local bookshop when The Chamber of Secrets was released. Although to be fair they knew me as a purchaser of children's books.
It is my opinion that the end of the written book, much like the newspaper or even magazine is near.
All I can say is again it must be a cultural difference. I get Heat magazine every week and have done for nine years. It's trashy, but I grew up with magazines. My sister confirms my niece's age group are as into their magazines as we were (not sure what they read - it was Just Sevnteen when I was at school). For intelligent humour I get Private Eye every two weeks.
And 90% of people on the Tube every monring and evening will have a newspaper. I'm not kidding. A book or a newspaper. How else can you hide from the weirdos.
I know you're not anti-reading. I'm just saying perhaps you are sounding the death knell too soon.
And 90% of people on the Tube every monring and evening will have a newspaper. I'm not kidding. A book or a newspaper. How else can you hide from the weirdos.
And in Japan, porno comic books are regulation subway reading for commuting suit-slaves. I use the :headshake smiley because that's me peeping over his shoulder.
I still subscribe to niche magazines like National Geographics, Smithsonian, and Liberty but no news magazines. My daughters are working their way though kid magazines. I think paper print will be with us a long time, but we may change what we use it for.
I will admit I rarely buy a newspaper. I tend to get the headlines online and the analysis from Newsnight. But then, if you just want a rundown of what's going on, there are plenty of free newspapers. I read the Metro most days during term, because there are copies dotted about the bus.
I do, however, spend far more than is healthy on books.
As it is with all things. Ideas are now rarely transmitted via papyrus or vellum.
I buy vellum to write with! :D It's actually my favorite. (and now a rarity) I use my typewriters and pens!I still love a lot of paper. I like rice paper, spongey paper, vellum, oh well, you get the idea! I even use large scrolls of typeable butcher paper...(you have the freedom to cut it to the size you want and it is cheaper than "art paper") I have a prized collection of paper. I think my red suede paper is sexy...I have also decided to take up the art of letter writing again. I e-mail, call, message, etc....but I also find that my correspondence with friends is not as intimate electronically so I am taking up the pen and typewriter again to send messages. I think it's like getting a little present in the mail.
I read a book recently also, that suggests just that (something much like it anyway). The idea is, if you are using a computer (keyboarding) things are going to come out differently than with a pen or other mediums. It will just be different, no better or worse, just different. I think there is a small, or large at times, difference in my communications,writing, and reading; this is dependent on the medium.
I know that I am using different areas of my brain to accomplish the writing or the reading depending on the medium because I have noticed that I am dyslexic (recent find and recent issue). The catch? I am only dyslexic while keyboarding on the computer. It is very specific. I read and write with other sources with no sign of dyslexia but recently I have had to edit everything I keyboard on the computer because when I type it, the letters are rearranged. I find this interesting because I show absolutely no sign of it using other mediums. I think this is connected to the medium, and we may lose something essential in our reading and/or writing if we don't have the variety. It's almost as if a different side of me comes out when I switch mediums.
Ok. Done. See what happens whn you mention vellum? blah blah blah....;)
*smiles* I also have some affection for vellum.
I find the biggest difference between writing by hand and typing is to do with speed of thought and translation of that thought to the page. I find when I write by hand, i have to consciously avoid skipping syllables. I cannot form the words fast enough.
*smiles* I also have some affection for vellum.
I find the biggest difference between writing by hand and typing is to do with speed of thought and translation of that thought to the page. I find when I write by hand, i have to consciously avoid skipping syllables. I cannot form the words fast enough.
I noticed a large difference when I had something important to say to one of my friends that has been acting differently towards me (upsetting me) and wrote it all out in a message as an e-mail (erased it). Then I took out the pen and paper to write the letter. The tones of each were drastically different, at the same speed, and the same amount of editing. The point was the same, but the tone took on some changes that were more detailed and effective;hence I have decided to write letters to correspond again.
If you are bored maybe you could try this Dana. Write something to someone that you feel is important to you (you don't have to send it). Do it first with your word editing program or an e-mail, and save it. Then take out the pen and paper to tackle the same subject. I have the possible subject ready: a letter or message to your friend J full of things you need to tell him. (or whatever is on your mind) Just make sure the subject is the same.
Then read both. See if the tone changes or if any other major element changes. You might be surprised at what you find there, and you might not.:D
(I forget sometimes that no one wastes time doing things that I do)
That's not a bad experiment, Cic. I tell you what I have noticed. I do write by hand, particularly if something occurs to me in the night. Usually this is poetry. I find I am much more self-conscious when I write by hand. When I type poetry I am much more lost in/engaged with the act. I am able to transpose the emotional content much more easily than when writing by hand.
I agree, Dana. With the spell-check and ease of editing, on the keyboard, I find I'm more connected with the content, and less with the process. Possibly a little more adventurous with vocabulary, too.
Although, probably more likely to include inane detail and superfluous bullshit. :o
Alas, I cannot write by hand anymore. Carpel tunnel has injured my writing wrist (total numbness except when making writing motions for more than a few words, then pure agony). I've learned to love the backspace, delete and cut/paste functions of the computer world, however.
Stormie
