Prisoner numbers
I just heard on Sky News that there is an average of 1 in 100 American males in prison at the moment. I was shocked to hear this figure. It didn't give a breakdown of what they're in prison for but statistics are available.
Does this shock anyone else or is it just me?
the story I saw said 1 in 100 adults, which is even more shocking.
We have much lower numbers of female prisoners in Australia.
I suspect that figure is for male prisoners, which suggests that the overall figure is even higher for the total number.
I've done a quick search and the detention rates for Australia and the UK are a bit over .1% of the population in total.
I know you only posted this because you hate Americans, but we're appalled at the numbers as well. Once we get the Republicans out of the White House and hopefully get a Democrat with some guts, we may be able to shut down the drug war. Maybe it is wishful thinking, but you got to have hope (tm).
I know you only posted this because you hate Americans
This is untrue, but I know you only said that because you hate Australians.
And just to prove it, there are facts concerning Australian prisoner numbers that I find equally shocking (and wouldn't have been aware of had it not been for what I just heard on the news) such as the fact that 24% of our total prisoner population is made up of indigenous Australians. This is shocking because indigenous Australians make up only 1% of the population.
I think the statistic I found most saddening about the British prison population is the incredibly high percentage who have literacy problems and the equally high percentage who have mental health problems. Our prisons are full of people who've been thoroughly let down and in many cases outright abandoned by the state from a fairly young age.
I was surprised/horrified/interested to read today that Michigan is one of four states who spend more on prisons than on higher education ($1.19/$1). It would never have occurred to me to investigate that statistic, but now I've seen it, I wonder how it is justified and how much of the $ cross over -how many prisoners are pursuing further education in jail and where is that $ coming from?
http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2008/02/michigan_one_of_four_states_to.htmlI wonder if prison guards get paid more than teachers.
good question. I know how much Ann Arbor teachers are paid, but higher Ed is a different ballpark and there's no way prison guards get paid more than that.
I work with a bunch of kids who have a parent in prison. I can't imagine being a prison guard, unbelievably depressing work.
One of my cousins is a prison guard. He likes it much better than being a carpenter. I guess he might change his mind the first time someone decides to get a bit cute though.
I would think it would be a crushing bore punctuated with occasional moments of extreme terror.
whatever number it is, I'm left wondering--
how low would be a "good" number of people in prison?
:headshake
That is an interesting question. Another would be will the percentage of the population in prison rise with the rising population?
... we may be able to shut down the drug war. Maybe it is wishful thinking, but you got to have hope (tm).
Hopefully that will never happen. We need to decriminalize pot, but that is about it.
Yea, they really need to speed up the executions to lower those numbers. And it is only 0.9 of 100 adults so technically not a whole person.
Here is the report:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080228/D8V3KF5O0.htmlPrisoner Number?
you are number 6.
how low would be a "good" number of people in prison?
All we know is that no other country - not the evil Russian; not the evil Chinese; not the evil N Korean; not the evil Iranians - put so many people in jail. Their numbers are less by population and less by percentage.
Last figures I read (and confirmed recently by a prison chaplain) are 1% of the American population is in Federal prisons. That number is higher when we add state and county prisons. No other nation in this world imprisons so many - by numbers or by percentage.
Something like 60% of those prisoners are there only on drug crimes. And of those drug convicted prisoners, that number is highest for marijuana possession. But this is good according to hard-asses. After all, any drug user is evil; deserves prison. Remember, Americans are the good guys. Therefore so many people in prison is justified.
average prison guard life expectancy? 54
dana:
I think the statistic I found most saddening about the British prison population is the incredibly high percentage who have literacy problems and the equally high percentage who have mental health problems. Our prisons are full of people who've been thoroughly let down and in many cases outright abandoned by the state from a fairly young age.
the
State let these underachievers down?
*blows chunks*
For those morons among you who think this is a 'bash america' thread, you're wrong. I would never have thought the number to be that high. In fact, I didn't think there would have been much of a difference between America and other western nations.
That was why I was surprised. Not because I wanted to bash America.
I'm sure those of you who choose to will still think the way you do. For those of you that think that way, you can have a big fuck you from me.
Oh yeah, and just so it doesn't seem so nasty, here's a :) for you arsehole/s.
I wonder if prison guards get paid more than teachers.
Only if they are male. It's in the rules.
OK, maybe I just don't understand something here, but while you all are appalled at how we as a society failed these poor prisoners my thought is
1 in 100 American males made the choice to commit a crime and was too damn stupid to get away with it. Seriously, show me an astounding number of people who are in prison that have not been found guilty of a crime, then I'll be appalled.
He made a mistake. He was caught in possession of marijuana. Therefore mandatory sentencing requires punishment equivalent to murder. Five year mandatory sentencing is a solution? Clearly America has massively more prisoners only because America has so many criminals. Curious that Australia, created as a penal colony, does not have so many evil people.
From the Washington Post of 29 Feb 2008:
New High In U.S. Prison Numbers
With more than 2.3 million people behind bars, the United States leads the world in both the number and percentage of residents it incarcerates, leaving far-more-populous China a distant second, according to a study by the nonpartisan Pew Center on the States.
The growth in prison population is largely because of tougher state and federal sentencing imposed since the mid-1980s. Minorities have been particularly affected: One in nine black men ages 20 to 34 is behind bars. For black women ages 35 to 39, the figure is one in 100, compared with one in 355 for white women in the same age group. ...
In addition, when it comes to preventing repeat offenses by nonviolent criminals -- who make up about half of the incarcerated population -- less-expensive punishments such as community supervision, electronic monitoring and mandatory drug counseling might prove as much or more effective than jail.
For instance, Florida, which has almost doubled its prison population over the past 15 years, has experienced a smaller drop in crime than New York, which, after a brief increase, has reduced its number of inmates to below the 1993 level. ...
Five states -- Vermont, Michigan, Oregon, Connecticut and Delaware -- now spend as much as or more on corrections as on higher education. Locally, Maryland is near the top, spending 74 cents on corrections for every dollar it spends on higher education. Virginia spends 60 cents on the dollar.
I didn't say anything about the laws they broke, just that they were found guilty of breaking the law. Personally I think marijuana laws are pretty stupid, but they are currently the law of the land. If you choose to possess and/or consume the herb you do so in violation of the law and are subject to the penalty. Don't like it? Work on changing the law before you do the deed.
it's winter. some people get arrested on purpose.
3 square meals per day, better treatment than they get out on the street.....
seriously. I know a guy who had a friend that would get incarcerated in the winter ON PURPOSE.
it's a hell of a lot easier than closing 25 little old ladies on a Nissan every month. :D
i do 125 deals per month on average. today i averaged 1574 per copy. made 14k+ on 8 deals. that's rare. none of them were little or old. only 2 were ladies.
I wouldn't have been able to do that in Australia, btw.....but..Ironically....one of my customers' name was Australia. no lie.....her first name was Australia. no, really. it is.
awesome day LJ. I never worked behind the desk. I just hustled the cars. my personal target was always 20 cars and $35K gross. Rarely hit it, but it was a goal. Our whole store usually did about 200-225 deals a month. Hit 350 in October of '01.
Don't like it? Work on changing the law before you do the deed.
Or work to violate a stupid law so that eventually, intelligence takes hold, and the law is revoked. It was called Prohibition. Best way that eliminated prohibition was to violate it. Deja vue drugs. Something approaching 60% of the prisoners are eliminated. Suddenly the college for making criminals has less students.
Just because it is the law justifies anything? Nonsense. We are supposed to be smarter than that rhetoric.
whether you like the law or not, it is the law - if you choose to break it be prepared to pay the consequences. don't look for sympathy and pats on the back.
I know a few people behind bars for drug violations... not a single one of them got arrested in hopes of changing the law - but nice thought.
there is NO way in hell tw smokes pot.
no fucken wai man.
there is NO way in hell tw smokes pot.
no fucken wai man.
Well he should start.
...and stop dropping acid.
the State let these underachievers down?
Patterns of illiteracy form at a very young age. The education system lets down a lot of kids, and particularly boys. In order to reach them the work needs to be put in at primary school level, long before the word 'under achiever' should ever be applied to a child. If a child is not learning at the age of seven the fault lies with the educators (or the system in which they operate) and family not the child.
The second huge swathe of prisoners I mentioned was those who are actually suffering from mental illness. The state has let them down because instead of giving them appropriate psychiatric attention, treatment and in some cases that will mean enforced in-patient treatment, they've been dropped into the prison system. part of the problem is that psychiatric health is the cindarella service in britain. Another part of the problem is the severe social stigma attached to mental illness which puts people off seeking help or information before they reach a critical stage. The state could alleviate this situation by: better funding and organisation of mental health provision; a more concerted effort to educate the public about mental health issues and a more concerted effort to educate local magistrates (who are often instrumental in the early stages of someone's entry into the criminal system) about mental illness thereby better equipping them to delineate between simple criminality and someone in crisis.
Curious that Australia, created as a penal colony, does not have so many evil people.
Sure they do, they just are not in prison. :lol2:
{Hi Ali! :stickpoke}
Dana - sometimes people are at fault. We cannot help every individual, nor is it rational to assume that everyone has the same capacity for achievement. we are all individuals with different intellects, attitudes and abilities. Some are going to be below others. It is not so easy to say that it is the states fault if at age 7 they are not learning. They may just be doing their best. The fact that their best is really poor, just may be a harsh reality. Lookouts old sig said it best. You cannot make things that are not equal, equal. It will inherently fail every single time.
I also suspect that some of reasons the figure is so high is the efficiency of our justice sytem and public reporting--I certainly would not trust any figures coming out of Russia, China, or North Korea on these statistics. And corruption isn't as rampant as in some countries.
Still, no question there's a problem. I wonder what percent of the total prison population is minority? Like 90%?
If the percentage is above 50% then they're not a minority.
…
Nearly 2 million Americans are
incarcerated in the prison system,
prison system of the U.S.
…
The percentage of Americans in the prison system,
prison system has doubled since 1985.
…
All research and successful drug policy shows
that treatment should be increased,
and law enforcement decreased,
while abolishing mandatory minimum sentences,
…
Drug money is used to rig elections,
and train brutal corporate sponsored
dictators around the world.
…
[youtube]--gbkUiWv10[/youtube]
Don't those other countries - russia, china, korea et al - just kill people instead. Doesn't that skew their numbers a bit?
well damn, we can fix that. I'll be the executioner.
Using the original links from the study and following the statistical trail back to a single source:
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/worldbrief/wpb_stats.php
when you begin to look at the per 100,000 population the statistical difference among the top contenders is not that big.
The Uk has a ridiculously high prison population. In fact we are at breaking point and now talking about building so-called 'super prisons' to house even more of the population.
Mandatory arrests and mandatory sentencing can suck it. Mmmm...italics or bold? italics or bold? Ok nevermind. I meant:
SUCK it.
Oh hi, you guys didn't know how completely insane I am did you?
:)
(rhetorical question)
All we know is that no other country - not the evil Russian; not the evil Chinese; not the evil N Korean; not the evil Iranians - put so many people in jail. Their numbers are less by population and less by percentage.
Sure, they just execute them.... sometimes even have a trial first.
lol! I don't have to bring up the mobile death-van again do I? Oh oops.
:)
I do think the numbers of people in prison are too high in America, because of the 'war on drugs' and the 'three strikes and your out' rule (is that still in place?). They're also too high in the UK because we've criminalised a lot of people who shouldn't be criminalised (non-payment of fines, minor drugs offences etc). Nonetheless...the comparison between America and China, Russia and Iran is a bit ludicrous. How many people in America simply 'disappear'? how many end up tortured to death in prison? Or organ harvested (having been imprisoned for such a terrible crime as being a FalunGong monk or practitioner). I really don't think the amnesty/human rights lobby do themselves any favours by propogating that sort of comparison.
uh, not many as far as I know.