I found out today

That our local medical center is delivering 50 illegal alien mothers babie's a month. Guess who is paying for each and everyone one of those? You.

yes, but at least the babies are U.S. citizens!! :lol:

How did you find out about this?

sycamore;434001 wrote:

How did you find out about this?

From an OBGYN surgeon who works there.

So what? We pay poor people to give birth too. Want to deny those babies citizenship too?

TheMercenary;433992 wrote:

That our local medical center is delivering 50 illegal alien mothers babie's a month.

So much implied hate of babies who are American citizens. Implies: their parents are aliens; therefore their parents do not pay their bills. Why not just call them 'nigers'? Sounds just like the deep south hate from the 1950s.

If you have a point, then first post facts - such as testimony from the OBGYN who says they never pay their bills. Those missing facts are typically of propaganda intended only to promote hate - of America's newest citizens.

Let's see. Who are the most productive Americans? Those born to parents and grandparents who were born elsewhere. Good to hear America has 50 'more promising investments' in America's future.

deadbeater;434031 wrote:

So what? We pay poor people to give birth too. Want to deny those babies citizenship too?

Who said anything about denying citizenship to their babies. The law allows it. The problem is the illegals hosing our system when we could be spending money on for the legal citizens who are poor. Send the illegals home or make them get documentation and force them to pay taxes.

tw;434032 wrote:

If you have a point, then first post facts -

I did, right here:
http://www.cellar.org/showpost.php?p=433992&postcount=1

tw;434032 wrote:

Implies: their parents are aliens; therefore their parents do not pay their bills. Why not just call them 'nigers'? Sounds just like the deep south hate from the 1950s.

They don't pay their bills, we do, through tax and higher costs when you go to the hospital. Your bag of IV fluid that costs the hospital $8 is charged to you for $250.

I would not call them niggers, wet backs, or any other term like that because it is personally offensive. I call them what they are, illegal aliens.

So...you have a supposed fact. Not that your source isn't reliable, but it's not like it's right in front of you. Anyway...you have this supposed fact...what do you think should be done in this particular situation (not in general, as you've already stated your thoughts on that)?

sycamore;434041 wrote:

So...you have a supposed fact. Not that your source isn't reliable, but it's not like it's right in front of you. Anyway...you have this supposed fact...what do you think should be done in this particular situation (not in general, as you've already stated your thoughts on that)?

I don't know. It is a question often discussed in the circles I run. I would love to ship them all home when they hit about the 8th month but it really would not be a good natured thing to do. The problem needs to be addressed on a larger scale because we are paying for it and it is drying up our resources. Maybe we should make the country of origin pay for it. Take there cash right out of the bank. I really do not know. Honest.

My opinion is that we need to close the borders up tight before any action in the country to deal with illegal immigration is attempted. Even if only for a temporary time period.

If I remember what she said; MIT's president said 7% of America students are foreigners. At MIT, the audience was asked to raise their hands if they were born outside the US. 25% of hands went up. They were asked to keep their hands up. Those whose parents were not born in America were asked to raise hands. Something exceeding 50% of the hands. Those whose grandparent was not born in America. Something less than 100% had hands raised. Guess who are America's greatest patriots? Did they get to MIT due to the same government welfare that TheMercenary complains about? Where the best American patriots are located, the vast majority are third generation immigrants or earlier.

How to make America greater? We need more immigrants. We need less of those who fear America's greatest source of innovation. What defines the most patriotic Americans? They innovate. Hate of immigrants therefore would be anti-American.

TheMercenary;434044 wrote:

My opinion is that we need to close the borders up tight before any action in the country to deal with illegal immigration is attempted.

American agriculture needs 1.8 million immigrants. So we only offer 20,000 work permits. Then when 1.8million must be illegal to do the work we need done, instead, we blame the workers?

Reason we have massive illegal immigration are laws that make it necessary for immigrants to be illegal. Eliminate the stupid laws and intentional restrictions - the immigrants come here legally.

A friend asked me to help him with an immigration form necessary to stay and work here. The form was so poorly worded (same concept never described by the same word even twice) that I could not understand what was supposed to be written in about one half the blanks. He had to take this simple form to an immigration attorney for $400.

Even the internet instructions said to call a phone number; could not provide any instructions. Just another example of why American regulations make it necessary to be illegal. Most every form required a lawyer - and hundreds of dollars. Just another problem ignored by those who promote fear of immigrants.

We don't have an illegal immigration problem. We have problems that 'those who fear' ignore - assuming they even understand the real problem.

tw;434058 wrote:

If I remember what she said; MIT's president said 7% of America students are foreigners. At MIT, the audience was asked to raise their hands if they were born outside the US. 25% of hands went up. They were asked to keep their hands up. Those whose parents were not born in America were asked to raise hands. Something exceeding 50% of the hands. Those whose grandparent was not born in America. Something less than 100% had hands raised. Guess who are America's greatest patriots? Did they get to MIT due to the same government welfare that TheMercenary complains about? Where the best American patriots are located, the vast majority are third generation immigrants or earlier.

How to make America greater? We need more immigrants. We need less of those who fear America's greatest source of innovation. What defines the most patriotic Americans? They innovate. Hate of immigrants therefore would be anti-American.

It isn't about foreigners idiot. It is about people who are in this country breaking our laws by being here. I fully expect and welcome anyone who would like to come here and follow the rules to citizenship or enter legally. We need them and should welcome them. We need a strong registered migrant worker program. Fuck everyone else who comes here illegally. Send them home and make them re-apply. It will be painful but we need to start somewhere. Time to deal with the issue on a national level. I have no hate of legal immigration.

TheMercenary;434061 wrote:

It isn't about foreigners idiot.

Idoit? You want to discuss logically or will you again let your penis talk for you. Words of insult are used by those who have no logical grasp. It asks, "What are you grasping as you write your posts." No wonder your posts contain so much hate. Relax. Stop squeezing it.

Your right. It's not about foreigners. Its about the source of your hate and eyes that overtly ignore why America needs so many illegal immigrants.

tw;434060 wrote:

American agriculture needs 1.8 million immigrants.

So send the other 16 million home.

xoxoxoBruce;434070 wrote:

So send the other 16 million home.

Other American industries need the rest.

tw;434066 wrote:

Idoit? You want to discuss logically or will you again let your penis talk for you. Words of insult are used by those who have no logical grasp. It asks, "What are you grasping as you write your posts." No wonder your posts contain so much hate. Relax. Stop squeezing it.

Your right. It's not about foreigners. Its about the source of your hate and eyes that overtly ignore why America needs so many illegal immigrants.

It is not about hate idiot. It is about illegals who are busting our bank.

Other American Industries employ Chinese and Indians.

xoxoxoBruce;434075 wrote:

Other American Industries employ Chinese and Indians.

Yea, in China and India.

xoxoxoBruce;434075 wrote:

Other American Industries employ Chinese and Indians.

TheMercenary;434076 wrote:

Yea, in China and India.

The term in the Silicon Valley is "ICs". Are they discussing Integrated Circuits? No. IC represent more than 50% of the employees now in the Silicon Valley - Indian and Chinese. But again, TheMercenary posted hate without first learning facts. That is so common among Americans who use derision to somehow blame it all on immigrants and unions and ...

TheMercenary - why do you know so much without first learning the details? Did you learn all this at the last cross burning?

tw;434092 wrote:

TheMercenary - why do you know so much without first learning the details? Did you learn all this at the last cross burning?

tw, why are you such an Idiot? I know nothing of cross burnings. I am not from the South.

TheMercenary;434095 wrote:

tw, why are you such an Idiot? I know nothing of cross burnings. I am not from the South.

Cross your fingers and put a match to them. You might learn something.

I've always hated that term: illegal alien. It sounds dehumanising. More accurate would be 'illegal immigrant', regardless of what the legalise term might be. Their illegality does not rest in the fact that they are 'aliens', their illegality rests in the fact they have migrated without following the proper channels.

Illegal alien reduces them to their very alienness, the fact that they are foreign.

DanaC;434111 wrote:

I've always hated that term: illegal alien. It sounds dehumanising. More accurate would be 'illegal immigrant', regardless of what the legalise term might be. Their illegality does not rest in the fact that they are 'aliens', their illegality rests in the fact they have migrated without following the proper channels.

Illegal alien reduces them to their very alienness, the fact that they are foreign.

Semantics IMHO. It doesn't change the fact they are here illegally, you know, broken our laws.

Semantics are not unimportant. Words have power. The point is that 'illegal alien' reinforces their otherness rather than their illegality. It reduces them as people to 'aliens'. 'Illegal immigrant' emphasises the illegal act rather than their otherness, it focuses on what they've done rather than what they are.

DanaC;434130 wrote:

Semantics are not unimportant. Words have power. The point is that 'illegal alien' reinforces their otherness rather than their illegality. It reduces them as people to 'aliens'. 'Illegal immigrant' emphasises the illegal act rather than their otherness, it focuses on what they've done rather than what they are.

It does not reduce them as people to me and I don't see them as less than human. The focus is on what they have done. Because they are people changes none of that.

Maybe it's a cultural thing. We don't use the word 'alien' here to refer to incoming foreigners.

Actually, I don't hear "illegal alien" very often...some may use it to make a point. In general, the term here seems to be "illegal immigrant."

Some guy on PhillyBlog accused people that used "illegal alien" of being racist; he's a bit of a nutter. I understand Dana's POV on it, but it's totally different than using a word like "spic."

I didn't say the word was racist. I said I never liked that term, because to me it seems dehumanising.

They are aliens because they don't belong here. They have no intention of becoming citizens, just grab what they can, milk the system, and go home.

Immigrants is a little wrong because it suggests their intent is to immigrate. We can't assume their intention, unless we ask.

DanaC;434172 wrote:

I didn't say the word was racist.

I know you didn't...I was just telling a short story about a person with similar feelings about the word (though from a different perspective).

c'mon syc, here in California the proper term is "undocumented immigrant" like they somehow just misplaced their papers :headshake