Hotels Get Smart, Remove Bibles
http://www.luxist.com/2007/11/18/luxury-hotels-lose-the-bible/
We've seen a lot of hotel trends over the years, plasma TVs, the rise of free wi-fi, pillow butlers, in-room fitness equipment and all sorts of adjustments as hotels adapt to the greening of America but the latest might just be the disappearance of an old favorite. ABC News has a story on the fact that luxury hotels are ditching the tradition of the Bible tucked in the bedside drawer.
Some of the comments with this article are gold.
I will be asking if the bible is provided as it has been in the past when I phone to reserve my room. If the hotel responds NO....I will book with another hotel that does include the bible in the room. These bibles have been provided FREE of charge by The Gideons. There is NO good reason to remove the bible from the hotel rooms.
I will certainly put that on my prerequisite list when searching for a hotel. Those places can be risky enough without leaving out the most important thing in your life...your religion.
Shit, people are strange. The room sleeps the same with or without the book in the drawer -- they'll get over it. It's not like these same people that feel this uncomfortable about a room without a bible in it (gasp!) don't have their own they carry with them when they travel.
But, dammit, where am I supposed to hide my cash during hotel stays, now? Next thing you know, they'll be removing the hidden stash of booze business travelers leave in the toilet tank on checkout.
I don't see the point in removing it. It does no harm being there and can come in useful either as a spiritual guide for those who walk that path, or as a handy supply of emergency paper for the rest of us.
Anything else that is... donated... by a passer-through is removed.
And I don't think that "remove" is really the right word. I don't think most Gideon Bibles are actually left behind after a stay anymore; a better way to put it is "stop helping the Gideons distribute them".
People who can't sleep without a Bible nearby probably have one already; Gideon Bibles are a form of prostelyzation.
But the kids won't understand the lyrics to Rocky Raccoon any more if they are removed.
the debbil will enter through their ears in their sleep if there's no bible in there.
I don't read anyway when in a hotel room so....
I don't see the point in removing it. It does no harm being there and can come in useful either as a spiritual guide for those who walk that path, or as a handy supply of emergency paper for the rest of us.
As long as you feel the same say about LaVey's Satanic Bible.
I've noticed over the past few years that many hotels have been ditching the minibars, and even the minifridges altogether. Now that's a real shame. Not only do I not get to pop open a beer or champagne split immediately upon entering my room, I also have nowhere to put my leftover delivery pizza.
When I lived in Leicester my parents stayed at the Holiday Inn - ludicrous prices, but they had Clubcard points from supermarket shopping so it was free.
There was a notice in the minibar that said any drink removed would be charged unless the occupent could prove it was later replaced. It's a pressure sensitive automatic billing system. My Mum - very respectful of authority - wanted to phone up Reception and ask if they culd use the fridge anyway. I said, "God, no Mum - they'll only feed you some line because it's more trouble for them! Just take all the stuff out like you usually do and pretend you didn't see the sign. They'll be plenty of idiots who genuinely didn't, they must have a way to process it!"
So they put their supermarket lunch fixings and alcohol in the fridge as usual and didn't consume anything provided by the hotel. Sure nuff it wasn't a problem. Although if I know Mum she would really have hammed it up at the desk :smack:
As long as you feel the same say about LaVey's Satanic Bible.
sure, why not? no one can force you to read what is sitting in a drawer. if some group wants to raise the money needed and build the infrastructure to donate the texts i have no problem with them sitting in a drawer waiting for someone who is interested in reading them. i don't see it as any different than all the little flyers you find in a hotel lobby area showing local attractions.
i honestly don't see what the big deal is either way. if a hotel owner wants to put them there, cool. if not, cool. i book my hotels based on the quality of the property, proximity to my reason for visiting, and price - in that order. the contents of the nightstand drawer don't enter into the equation.
I've stayed in Marriott's a couple of times in recent years. Their drawers contain a Gideon Bible (KJV), a Book of Mormon, and
The Book of Marriott.
I feel...
Much, much better now.
Someone lemme know if he gets less annoying, 'kay?
Chickenshit #2
He announced it... LOL!!! what a baby.
I've stayed in Marriott's a couple of times in recent years. Their drawers contain a Gideon Bible (KJV), a Book of Mormon, and The Book of Marriott.
Looks like a good read. I liked the Home Depot one.
sure, why not? no one can force you to read what is sitting in a drawer. if some group wants to raise the money needed and build the infrastructure to donate the texts i have no problem with them sitting in a drawer waiting for someone who is interested in reading them. i don't see it as any different than all the little flyers you find in a hotel lobby area showing local attractions.
i honestly don't see what the big deal is either way. if a hotel owner wants to put them there, cool. if not, cool. i book my hotels based on the quality of the property, proximity to my reason for visiting, and price - in that order. the contents of the nightstand drawer don't enter into the equation.
The hotel does not put them there, the Gideons do so as a proselytizing method.
I think they have the right to allow it, just think it is sad.
A non-stalk/insult post *has heart-attack*.
gideons don't literally go room to room replacing every bible. hotel employees do. gideons provide the bibles free of charge and have asked the hotel owners and management to place them there.
I was out of town for a funeral of a dear family member. While staying in the hotel I found comfort in reading some passages in the Bible. I also referenced things from it for my memorial speech. Why is that such a problem for you? If you don't want to read it - don't. Same as some of your posts, or mine, or anyones for that matter.
If you don't want to read it - don't. Same as some of your posts, or mine, or anyones for that matter.
Good point. Seems kinda familiar . . .
Why is that such a problem for you?
This whole thing is a non-issue -- the Bibles are still available at the front desk upon request at these hotels and no one should really care if the books actually are placed in the drawers.
maybe they put bibles in hotel rooms for all the people who decide to get loaded then do themselves over in them. Maybe some people think they should be there for those people who might find some solace in the book which they'd never ask for if it weren't there.
Personally, if you don't want to read it, then don't. I agree with kitsune here. It's a non-issue.
Why is that such a problem for you?
It is not a problem beyond that I find religious proselytizing to be a low/deceitful practice and enjoy seeing anything that gets in its way.
It is not a problem beyond that I find religious proselytizing to be a low/deceitful practice and enjoy seeing anything that gets in its way.
[on rant]Well I see your bashing of religion, any religion, something you choose to not believe in or are incapable of believing in, to be equally offensive. You seem to have a heck of a negative attitude. Why don't you try something more positive like love or caring? I have read many, many of your posts about you family and so on. Why is it so hard for you to treat others with that same love and respect? Oh thats right - you don't believe.....nevermind - as you were.
[off rant][on rant]Well I see your bashing of religion, any religion, something you choose to not believe in or are incapable of believing in, to be equally offensive. You seem to have a heck of a negative attitude. Why don't you try something more positive like love or caring? I have read many, many of your posts about you family and so on. [COLOR="Red"] Why is it so hard for you to treat others with that same love and respect? Oh thats right - you don't believe[/COLOR].....nevermind - as you were. [off rant]
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Don't blame rage's neuroses and general dickishness on his atheism. I'm very much an atheist, but you don't see me being a bitch about everything, do you?
Don't confuse cause, effect, and coincidence.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Don't blame rage's neuroses and general dickishness on his atheism. [COLOR="Red"]I'm very much an atheist,[/COLOR] but you don't see me being a bitch about everything, do you?
Don't confuse cause, effect, and coincidence.
It's hard to be a little bit atheist. ;)
Not at all; what do you think agnosticism is?
Agnostics admit they don't have a clue. Atheists believe there is no god, no way. Big difference.
Maybe I shoulda put a :sarcasm: smiley in there...
nah - just admit your mistake and move on - She got ya and you know it. ;)
Agnostics admit they don't have a clue. Atheists believe there is no god, no way. Big difference.
No, agnostics believe it is impossible to know. Atheists lack belief in gods. You can be one, the other, both, or neither. Some atheists have afirmative belief in the nonexistence of gods, but most simply lack belief.
Or we could get into semantics wars over what was supposed to be a joke, something that tickled me...eh. :)
I'm trying to see how you can be both, but if I was wrong I stand corrected.
No, agnostics believe it is impossible to know. Atheists lack belief in gods. You can be one, the other, both, or neither. Some atheists have afirmative belief in the nonexistence of gods, but most simply lack belief.
and what is the official title once vitriolic hate and condescension are mixed in?
eek I looked it up in wikipedia. There are a thousand types of atheism/agnosticism and levels and now my head spins. You were right, Ibby, I was wrong (no, the world is not ending.) :blush:
Wiki will be the end of true definitions.
Given the usual definitions of the supernatural, I'd say that both would be the default logical position.
Agnostic is default because the supernatural can always skip one step ahead of science. You can never state with certainty that something wasn't done supernaturally, but in such a way that it just looks natural.
Atheist is default, because absence of belief is the most reasonable course in the absence of evidence.
Re: Wiki...It's a quick reference, to me. Though it may not be all correct, I got the info I wanted without wading through theological websites; it was all on one page. Theism is all theory anyway. Before I catch it for that one, I am using the word theory in the usage that refers to "conjecture or speculation" NOT the usage of real science theory.
Disclaimers are fun!
Wiki will be the end of true definitions.
Definitions are conventions; wikipedia is as good a place as any (perhaps better) to collect all the myriad conventions in a convenient place.
What Happy Monkey said. ;)
Define "extent." :lol2:
Classicman, just messing. I crack myself up, if no one else. ;)
I think you crack up a lot of people - more than you know! Just not all in a good way :D
Yeah, that's the problem. I have discernation inefficiency.
Definitions are conventions; wikipedia is as good a place as any (perhaps better) to collect all the myriad conventions in a convenient place.
I think wehat is happening there or better yet, can happen with wiki, is that incorrect perceptions perpetuate and slowly become "facts" even though incorrect. Then again, maybe changing reality to perception is a good thing.
Wow. Someone just posted "You were right and I was wrong."
Wow.
The world may not be ending but for me it just gave a quick backflip.
[on rant]Well I see your bashing of religion, any religion, something you choose to not believe in or are incapable of believing in, to be equally offensive. You seem to have a heck of a negative attitude. Why don't you try something more positive like love or caring? I have read many, many of your posts about you family and so on. Why is it so hard for you to treat others with that same love and respect? Oh thats right - you don't believe.....nevermind - as you were. [off rant]
In no way did I bash religion, sock, I simply bashed a tactic.
No reading comprehension?
There are classes for that.
Not at all; what do you think agnosticism is?
Atheism:
A-non, theist-believer in a god.
Agnostics are atheists, they just don't like the word.
Most Buddhists, many Wiccans, agnostics, Brights, non-theists, undecideds, all of them... if they don't actively believe in a god they are an atheist.
Sam Harris has been a whiny little bitch about the word lately... it is just an accurate description.
gideons don't literally go room to room replacing every bible. hotel employees do. gideons provide the bibles free of charge and have asked the hotel owners and management to place them there.
I have been at a hotel when the Gideons came and place the bibles in the rooms.
Play again.
The weed you're smokin must be affecting your memory - you have taken plenty of shots at religion.
I have taken shots at tactics of organized religion, not belief.
I have stated many times that I do not care what an individual believes, just what they do with it. I am married to a theist.
I have not smoked for a long time and it is irrelevant to this, ad hominem as usual.
I wish I didn't have a life and could just pull up and cite them for you - Political reference about the elections, schools teachings.... please.
All about organized religion, abuse of authority, hypocrisy of the org in authority harming those it purports to help and those using their beliefs to breech the separation of church and state.
None about individual belief.
Play again.
so what you are saying is that every gideon bible placed in every hotel room across america is placed there by a gideon?
and, out of curiousity, did the gideon bitchslap you, tie you to your chair, and force you to read the bible?
didn't we have a thread about gideon sex? oh wait, that was "giddyup" sex. *still queasy at thought of LJ with feather duster hanging from ass*:thepain:
so what you are saying is that every gideon bible placed in every hotel room across america is placed there by a gideon?
and, out of curiousity, did the gideon bitchslap you, tie you to your chair, and force you to read the bible?
Nothing I posted even implied anything you stated in any way.
Normal for you, as ever.
let's go back.
you stated that gideons put the bibles in the rooms. i stated that gideons provided them but they don't go room to room replacing each one as needed. your response was that you had seen it happen thereby implying that they do in fact go room to room. (funny how you have personally done or witnessed every freaking thing to ever occur:right: )
i have not been in every hotel in america so i can't say that it is this way everywhere, but my two clients who own hotels do have their employees replace the ones missing when the clean the rooms. and i have seen them on the cleaning carts in other hotels so i would take that to mean that hotel staff is prepared to replace them as needed at the direction of the owners.
you stated that gideons put the bibles in the rooms.
Yes, either they do it themselves, room-to-room which I have personally seen, I never stated I know how often this occurs but do know it does or they get staff to.
You chose to assume I meant they always do with nothing to support it.
I implied nothing.
The hotel manager gave them universal room keys?
Not sure. They knocked on my door and they were entering the other, unoccupied rooms. They had a cart with bibles, I asked if they were gideons and talked with one for a while.
i hope you didn't try to proselytize them. that would be rude.
but if i was a hotel manager/owner i'd have a hard time handing over a universal room key to someone just because they have a cart of bibles. i think the liability would be pretty high there.
Nope, I don't do that, it is rude, you are quite correct.
pros·e·ly·tize (prŏs'ə-lĭ-tīz') Pronunciation Key
v. pros·e·ly·tized, pros·e·ly·tiz·ing, pros·e·ly·tiz·es
v. intr.
To induce someone to convert to one's own religious faith.
To induce someone to join one's own political party or to espouse one's doctrine.
There seems to be a bit of this happening here.
As long as you feel the same say about LaVey's Satanic Bible.
Doesn't bother me in the slightest as long as I'm not paying for it or required to read it.
So, the thread title is "Hotels get smart...."
What is smart about it, exactly? Were they losing business because of the bibles in the rooms? The feedback suggests they may lose business if they refuse to put bibles in the rooms. So how is it smart?
And the bible can be a pretty good read -it's just a bunch of stories and a little poetry. It has no more brainwashing properties than the complete works of Shakespeare. The fact that some people choose to believe in the god portrayed in the stories is irrelevant.
Hey now that looks like a philosophical argument to me monster! Get thee to the right forum wench!
On the little fridges comment, I work for a hotel and in the past year we have had 9 out of our 16 fridge, stolen. They just bought another 6, so here's hoping they can glue them in or something. If they can't be bolted down, chances are someone WILL take it. As for bibles in the rooms, I can't remember if they took them out or not... I will have to ask someone in housekeeping tomorrow.
There seems to be a bit of this happening here.
An example.
Everyone is trying to convert everyone else to their way of thinking from what I can see.
Hmmm... one way at looking at a discussion. I don't see it as an active objective that way, but a valid argument if made.
I just think that we all try to influence people whether we want to admit it or not.
If we weren't trying to influence people's thinking, we wouldn't bother having discussions.
Some have them for the sake of having interesting conversations and to expose themselves to different thoughts.
Not everyone is egocentric to the point to need others to think like they do to feel validated.
I don't think it's about validation. If I have a discussion with someone (let's use this one as an example) one or the other of us, or perhaps both, will be influenced by it in that we will/might take something from the discussion which affects what/how we think. Just the simple fact of reading the text changes what you think because there are messages going to your brain that would not have been there otherwise.
True, but the purpose for all is not to make others think like they do.
It's just a conversation.
Intelligent people don't take them as personally as some freaks do.
There is no rational reason to... they are just ideas and nothing more. If you don't agree with them or like them then don't adopt them, its simple.
I have family that are white supremacists, I talk with them, casually... no big deal. I don't agree with them, but I don't have to get my panties in a wad because they are saying something outrageous to someone with my "morals" or "ideals".
I just don't agree and that is all.
Why someone would choose to make more out of a statement they don't agree with still completely baffles me. It is illogical and serves NO purpose other than self-harm.
Maybe not to make others think 'like they do' but definitely to get them to think full stop. That is to say, maybe you don't necessarily hope or even want people to think your way, but you certainly want to create understanding. That's the purpose of discussion...isn't it? So if the discussion is successful, you might judge that by both parties recognising the others argument and identifying the aspects of both which preclude similar thought. This then leads to different ways of viewing the subject and in fact means that both have influenced the other.
want to create understanding
Sometimes, sometimes I just want interesting, scholarly, thoughtful banter, selfishly perhaps, but true.
If they are not thinking but I am, at that point, is fine with me.
Either way, it was choice on their part and I have made them think nothing. If someone changes their view on something it is because they have
chosen to adopt a new POV. No one can force you to think something through casual conversation.
This is why I find statements like "you made me angry" so amusing and lacking merit.
It is simply not true.
My point is, someone doesn't have to change their POV to have been influenced by the discussion.
Sometimes, sometimes I just want interesting, scholarly, thoughtful banter, selfishly perhaps, but true.
If they are not thinking but I am, at that point, is fine with me.
Either way, it was choice on their part and I have made them think nothing. If someone changes their view on something it is because they have chosen to adopt a new POV. No one can force you to think something through casual conversation.
No, but actively listening instead of merely looking for points to refute in the other person's stance or arguing from the standpoint of convincing your opponent of your rightness might give you some new insights into or angles to the issue that hadn't occurred to you previously.
True listening is an art form. Arguing for the joy of debate is a different skill.
Oh and Bibles in hotel rooms? Who cares?? Doesn't bother me any more than religious billboards looming in front of my face as I drive or commercials on TV.
/shrug
Stormie - I bow to you. :notworthy You nailed it all in two concise posts.
No, but actively listening instead of merely looking for points to refute in the other person's stance or arguing from the standpoint of convincing your opponent of your rightness might give you some new insights into or angles to the issue that hadn't occurred to you previously.
True listening is an art form. Arguing for the joy of debate is a different skill.
Debate and arguing have nothing in common.
Debate and arguing have nothing in common.
Besides being synonyms and similar sets of definitions, true. :right:
Perhaps he had forensic debate in mind.
All else being equal, I rather prefer a Gideon Bible present in a hotel room I'm in than absent. Not that I give them a lot of use, it is true.