Booze in the great state of Pennsyltucky

Some of you may recall a thread about booze purchases in Pennsylvania--well you'll love this one! I received the standard brochure from our state senator a few days back. It was the usual stuff explaining what a wonderful job she was doing and how fabulously she was representing her darling constituents in Harrisburg. One of the pieces of legislation she worked on which passed & was signed now allows Pennsylvanians to buy wine via the Internet or other mail order, something which was previously illegal!! WOW!! shocking! Oops, I read it a second time. The wine is supposed to be delivered to "a convenient state liquor store nearby" which will then allow you to pick it up. Oh, the vendor you buy from has to be licensed by Pennsylvania, and needless to say no sales of wines that are carried by state-run stores is allowed. If you'd like a laugh, read the whole thing.


In other news, there is a brandy-brand new fancy state store in downtown Philadelphia. It's supposed to stifle everybody's desire to buy liquor in more liberal states nearby. I'd love to hear from anybody who's visited it (I probably won't be in that neighborhood for a while) and can tell us what it's like. Maybe even a job for Tony, remembering the wine forum he used to host in the olden days. :beer:

(Oh, and I'm not going to debate the whole issue of federalism vs. states' rights. All I'm going to say is, people who think it's self-evident that moving power from the federal government back to the states is a Good Thing(tm) have never actually dealt with a state government.)

(edited to clean up a couple typos & how could I forget to add the beer smilie?????)

The PA liquor laws have befuddled me for years. Until they okayed it not too long ago, I went through hell trying to get Woodchuck cider in this state.

Question: Do the prohibitions on importation of liquor apply to empties, as well? There is an old whiskey distillery in Scotland (closed for close to 20 years now) that bears my family name, and I'd love to dig up a bottle (empty or otherwise) just for the novelty of it. Someone's liable to put an empty bottle up on eBay as a collector's item sooner or later; am I legally allowed to buy such a thing?

My instinct it to say, of course it doesn't apply to empties.. but the law is so ridiculous, counterintuitive, and just plain stupid that I wouldn't be surprised if there were something against it.

You can't force me to go to a "state store" (Pennsylvania term for state-owned store where liquor is sold). I buy all my wine in NJ, only because I want to thumb my nose at the state government.

I wasn't suggesting you actually sully yourself by BUYING something! :cool: Actually I drink so little it's not worth my trouble to drive to NJ from where I live, but I had to put my clarinets in to be overhauled, and I took them to a guy in Wilmington. There are a couple liquor stores on the way, so I may just go ahead & see if there's anything I want to pick up when I go get my clarinets back.

A previous neighbor used to have packages delivered to his address with a name like a liquor store. I think he used that to sucker out-of-state companies into sending booze to him, but I never stole a package to find out.

I think I'll still be crossing the border for the liquor.

Living on the NY/PA border means I can get cheap smokes in PA and liquor in NY. The odd thing is, I have heard that you can get grain alcohol in PA, which doesn't make sense given the rest of the regulation. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Originally posted by spinningfetus
The odd thing is, I have heard that you can get grain alcohol in PA, which doesn't make sense given the rest of the regulation. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

You can buy grain alcohol at the State Store. Why doesn't that make sense?

CLEAR SPRING GRAIN ALCOHOL - 190 PROOF (190.00pf) 1.75 L $29.99
EVERCLEAR GRAIN ALCOHOL - 190 PROOF (190.00pf) 750 ML $13.99

Originally posted by MaggieL

You can buy grain alcohol at the State Store. Why doesn't that make sense?

It doesn't make sense that you can only buy liquor from a state run store but then that store is selling nearly pure alcohol. any schumk can get a liquor permit here but no grain alcohol...

Originally posted by spinningfetus


It doesn't make sense that you can only buy liquor from a state run store but then that store is selling nearly pure alcohol. any schumk can get a liquor permit here but no grain alcohol...

Oh! You're saying the NY law makes no sense.

That's OK, from what I hear the NY gun laws don't make any sense either. Especially NYC.

Originally posted by MaggieL


Oh! You're saying the NY law makes no sense.

That's OK, from what I hear the NY gun laws don't make any sense either. Especially NYC.

Either way, I'll be honest laws in general don't make much sense to me... As for the guns thats why I keep the howitzer in Montana ;)



[Ed. stupid typos....]

Grain alcohol sales in State Stores were banned a few years ago in response to a few incidents at Penn. Were they quietly lifted?

(nothing wrong with pure grain anyway; works great for up-proofing other liquor if you need it to burn, for instance)

Originally posted by russotto
Grain alcohol sales in State Stores were banned a few years ago in response to a few incidents at Penn. Were they quietly lifted?

Those prices were from the LCB website. I suppose grain might possibly be available only by special direct order, as opposed to off-the-shelf in the State Store. I just don't get into the Stae Store that often; I know I've seen grain there, but that could have been several years ago.

They sell Everclear at the store up the street from my house.

Rho picked up the newest Wines and Spirits Quarterly last week.

This killed me:

"Retail prices include Federal Tax and an 18-percent Pennsylvania Emergency State Tax."

What the FUCK?! What emergency? I knew the prices were higher here of course, but at least now I know why the shit is so damned expensive here.

UT, next time you head over to NJ, you look me up. We'll take a picture as we buy our spirits and flip off the PA side of the Delaware. :)

Originally posted by sycamore

UT, next time you head over to NJ, you look me up. We'll take a picture as we buy our spirits and flip off the PA side of the Delaware. :)

Better yet come up to NY and we sway our way through the wine trail. Finger lakes wines have gained a lot of respect in the last twenty or thirty years and theres nothing like getting shwilled for free and then getting turned lose to buy wine by the case. Wow, I'm starting to talk myself into a winery tour this weekend. The key is to find someplace to camp within staggering distance...

I know folks that wine tour by bike, not too smart.

Well, I discovered that the strip mall where my clarinet mechanic has his office has a liquor store in it. So, when I picked up the horns yesterday, I went in on impulse and picked up a couple bottles of single malt scotch. Based on my memory of PA state store prices, I thought things looked cheaper. But it turned out the two things I bought were the same price according to the PLCB web site. Still, I didn't have to pay sales tax on them! So, where ARE the best places to go to break PA law? (It also occured to me that single malt scotch may not be as much subject to discounting as cheaper stuff.)

That's also the only way to get Finger Lakes wines in Pennsyltucky as they do not sell them in the state's liquor stores. Which is a true shame, because they are fine but simple wines at good prices. And people should be drinking the wines of their region or nearby regions, just as a matter of tradition.

I've been up there a few times and it's a fine way to spend a weekend.

Crossing the river into NJ, K, the best way to go is to find one of the discounters which dot the sides of the roads. Syc found Roger Wilco which is up his way; there are about six Canal's outlets, one in Camden right across the Ben Franklin, a few further in across various bridges.

Yeah, Roger Wilco kicks ass. In addition to their 2 locations on Rt. 73, they have a 3rd location on US 130 in Burlington, near the B-B Bridge (still only $2 coming into PA).

The one on Rt. 73 S in Pennsauken is probably the best though. The only liquor store I know that puts a candle to that store is Tic-Toc Liquor in Langley Park, MD.

The wife & I were down near the south end of the Blue Route today and we decided to tool on down across the Delaware border, since she was out of wine and it was Sunday. We checked out Total Wines on Naamans Road right off I-95/495. It was like being on another planet! They've got a customer. Less than 1/2 hr from our house. I shoulda done it years ago, but I always figured it was more trouble than it was worth.

Okay, I'm from California, so you're going to have to explain this to me: only the state-owned stores can sell liquor in PA? What is the rationale behind this? How long has it been like this?

C'mon down to visit me. We'll go down to Trader Joes. They have the cheapest wine around. How can you go wrong with a $2.99 bottle of wine? If it isn't good, who cares? It was only 2.99!

It's been like that since the end of Prohibition. Only state stores (Wine and Spirits Shoppes) can sell wine and hard liquor. It was basically done to keep shit under control, but has turned into a patronage system and cash cow.

The chances of getting rid of it are slim at best. Part of the problem is the fact that union workers work in the shops. They refuse to go down without a fight. Another problem is that the revenue has been helping out the budget during the current fiscal crisis. (Although some have argued that selling it off could be a bigger windfall...I agree.)

The other problem is the very nature of PA. Philadelphia in the east, Pittsburgh in the west, Alabama in the middle (to borrow from James Carville). A lot of groups were against Sunday sales (which started at select stores a few months ago) and don't want these items to be more available. It's also incredibly hard to get a liquor license in this state (though it was made a bit easier a year ago)...a license on the market could fetch $2 million easily, and you'll find many places that are BYOB. The state will only issue permits for every so many number of people. Based on the current population, there are currently "too many" permits out there, so no new ones are issued (at least as of a year ago).

The Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board is my main pet peeve about living in PA. It's obviously something I can deal with, since I'm not an alcoholic. :) But why make it so fucking difficult and expensive for residents to partake in a spirit?

After the end of prohibition a number of states only allowed liquor sales by the govt. PA was one of those states. Unfortunately this led to the creation of a union of employees which then led to an unbreakable political situation.

Grain tends to be not available at state stores in the slums or near college campuses. My two local stores only have pints or their ml equivalent. I don't remember how it was labeled and I tossed the bottles after I dumped the grain in with the fruit. ;)
It does seem strange that the largest purchacer of booze in the world has the highest prices.

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
It does seem strange that the largest purchacer of booze in the world has the highest prices.

I'm not surprised. That ridiculous 18% tax was to help repair Johnstown after the floods...of the 1930s.

In the end, it's all about good ol' government bureaucracy.

Originally posted by Jakeline
Okay, I'm from California, so you're going to have to explain this to me: only the state-owned stores can sell liquor in PA? What is the rationale behind this? How long has it been like this?

Not only that, beer can only be sold at distributorships that legally can only sell by the case, or by bars that have a take-out license--and it's VERY expensive at these places.

A lot of delis sell 6 and 12 packs...that's where I usually buy mine.

So, when in such a retarded situation, you have 3 options:

--Pay through the nose, which is generally the remedy if you don't live relatively close to one of the state's borders (and don't feel like paying a toll to cross back into PA from NJ).

--In the case of beer, you buy it by the case. This actually isn't too bad, as case prices are reasonable. I find it outlandish, but that's only b/c I'm spoiled. I'm from St. Louis, the home of Anheuser-Busch. Paying more than $10 for a case of Natural Light is an outrage in my book.

--Drive to one of the border states. I'm not sure about OH and WV, but I know that the other border states (NY, NJ, DE, and MD) offer alcohol at cheaper prices and make it more readily available. There is a risk...if you are busted by PA authorities, the fine (for not paying excise tax to PA) is $25 per bottle. At the same time, the chances of getting busted, if you know how to play the system, are slim to none.

Sometimes, I like things that are not easily available here in PA. And if I buy enough, it could be worth my time to go outside of PA. And I live 15 minutes from 5 bridges that cross the Delaware River, one of them a free bridge. You do the math.

Originally posted by sycamore
Natural Light is an outrage in my book.

:p

You sir are a no-good rotten out-of-contexter.