With Turnover High, Schools Fight for Teachers
With Turnover High, Schools Fight for Teachers
GREENSBORO, N.C. — The retirement of thousands of baby boomer teachers coupled with the departure of younger teachers frustrated by the stress of working in low-performing schools is fueling a crisis in teacher turnover that is costing school districts substantial amounts of money as they scramble to fill their ranks for the fall term.
Bruce R. Feeley for The New York Times
Rebecca Rheinheimer, a teacher at Oak Hill Elementary in High Point, N.C., was lured from Indiana by a $2,500 bonus.
Superintendents and recruiters across the nation say the challenge of putting a qualified teacher in every classroom is heightened in subjects like math and science and is a particular struggle in high-poverty schools, where the turnover is highest. Thousands of classes in such schools have opened with substitute teachers in recent years.
Cops and teachers... you get what you pay for.
I taught public school, before teaching community college, for less than a year.... things are better now than they were when I did it, but I still would not do it for what they pay.
It is a JOKE.
Blaming teachers for the system is crazy.
Garbage men and women are paid better and get better benefits than teachers (they are where they should be, I am saying the teacher's union is corrupt and broken) and people wonder why we can't get devoted, focused outstanding individuals in numbers to teach our kids?
Those people are idiots.
We deserve what we get and WE are DOING this to our kids.
Raise pay and benefits, more and better people will want the jobs and you can ask more of them as far as education, hours, devotion, etc.
It IS that simple.
See what administrators get paid compared to teachers in your area and then you will SEE clearly what the problem is.
About two or three years ago, Texas implemented a policy that anyone with a bachelor's degree in the appropriate topic could with very little effort become certified to teach that topic in high schools, without actually going through the typical multi-year University course accreditation. This helped lessen the shortage tremendously.
My mother-in-law, sister-in-law, and two aunts are all teachers, and they were all vehemently against this legislation when it came out. Basically to them it amounted to being told that they had no special skill at their jobs, anyone off the street could do it. The difference, as I tried to explain to them, is that they all teach elementary school and younger. A kindergarten teacher can reasonably be expected to need various classes in child psychology, developmental processes, etc. A high school teacher, however, does not. Sure, it's nice to have that sort of preparation, but high schools today have much more important problems to focus on.
I definitely agree that raising pay would help, but only to a certain degree--private schools typically pay teachers less than public schools, and yet are harder to get jobs in, because those jobs are inherently more desirable to the teachers. Students have to improve to allow the teachers to improve to help the students improve... I think we should seriously consider the concept of vocational schools as an alternative to high schools for those students who would find that environment more appropriate. Section off the kids who don't care and the ones that remain will be able to get a much better education.
I also agree with that.
Disruptive students need to be removed from classes of students that want to learn.
Disruptive students need to be removed from classes of students that want to learn.
w-w-what???? I thought they just needed to be "educated" Weren't you touting that in the spanking thread?? Why is it different here?
Put away the broad brush. Education is still mostly a state and local issue despite the Bush/Kennedy disaster. Florida is not New York.
With Turnover High, Schools Fight for Teachers
Cops and teachers... you get what you pay for.
I taught public school, before teaching community college, for less than a year.... things are better now than they were when I did it, but I still would not do it for what they pay.
It is a JOKE.
You were clearly living in the wrong state ... average here is $52K, with a lot of teachers making well above the mean ... and that's just base salary, and doesn't take into account the extra money for doing stuff like being a club advisor, sports coach, or whatever. Might not be superfantastic by business world standards, but it's not the pittance that teachers once were paid ... I got out of an education program in college because the expected pay was around $18K at that time.
The difference, as I tried to explain to them, is that they all teach elementary school and younger. A kindergarten teacher can reasonably be expected to need various classes in child psychology, developmental processes, etc. A high school teacher, however, does not. Sure, it's nice to have that sort of preparation, but high schools today have much more important problems to focus on.
I'm not a teacher, or even play one on TV, but it seems to me that high school hormone factories would require teachers with all those extra skills.
At least from memory (ok, looong memory) and from what I see on the news, discipline was, and has become, a major problem in high and Jr high schools. They not only need the extra training but hand to hand combat skills, as well.
In this area, teachers had fallen behind the inflation curve in the 70s but they doubled their pay over a ten year period in the 80s/90s. After a few years, with a masters, $60/$75k and retire at 55 with 85% pay, is not exactly slave wages.
The days of the downtrodden underpaid teachers have been over for some time.
w-w-what???? I thought they just needed to be "educated" Weren't you touting that in the spanking thread?? Why is it different here?
I missed the part where I stated that we needed to hit them, please point that out.
I see where Bruce gets what he does about your reading skills.
The days of the downtrodden underpaid teachers have been over for some time.
That's why you want the job so badly.
Huh? Did someone say something pertinent? I didn't think so.
I know someone who went to Turnover High. Most of them were of Dutch descent, i.e. Danish. They had a killer cafeteria. Naturally, Culinary Arts were big in the Vocational School. But, those sons of biscuits had three months off every summer...got paid for a full year! Most of the families had a lot of dough, but the kids were a bunch of pale pastry pansy-asses. So many of them went on to become teachers, then actors, then firemen, then astronauts, then ditch diggers, then microbiologists, then dog walkers, then shoemakers, then astronomers, then truck drivers, then electrical engineers, then ambassadors, then butlers, then tailors.
Well, if just one day could go by without yet another story about such-and-such teacher fucking such-and-such student(s)...
Clearly the skills they need include keeping their hands to themselves and concentrating on the curriculum.
Keep telling me why it is such a great job and then tell me what other career you have to have a second job to make it during your time off.
Also, teachers have to have continuing education, which we do during that break.
Speak of what you know.
When I say disruptive students I am talking about students that take too much time from the rest of class.
Yes, teach them in class, but there is a point where some kids refuse to learn, or cannot, and need special classes.
It is not fair to the students that CAN and WILL behave in classes to have their education sacrificed because administration refuses to empower teachers. It is a common problem because they don't want to "offend" the parents of the kids with the problem.
Most teachers will say "let me talk to them".
Eloquent as always.
Edit:
Which is fine, I don't care if you don't know anything about it by choice, as long as you NEVER bitch about the state of young people where you live because of how you and your local society chooses to treat your teachers.
Ooooh, what if I do? I'm scared.
You don't know what I know and do not know. You're just doing what you always do, belittling and being a general jackass. Good enough for me!
I see where Bruce gets what he does about your reading skills.
I'll disregard the first comment of your post since you adressed it later in another, but when the hell has Bruce EVER said anything about
my reading skills? ever???
Please cite.
Damifino?
All I said is you're ugly.
Keep telling me why it is such a great job and then tell me what other career you have to have a second job to make it during your time off.
When I say disruptive students I am talking about students that take too much time from the rest of class.
Yes, teach them in class, but there is a point where some kids refuse to learn, or cannot, and need special classes.
Thank you rk, that is a much better response. Very cogent, direct and succinct, unlike many of your recent posts. For example - what you just said to S123. You have some good points - just make 'em an move on - its not like she's tw or anything.
Damifino?
All I said is you're ugly.
I don't think he was talking about what we have in common.
This is all so sweet, I can barely stand the love. Group grope! :grouphug:
I don't think he was talking about what we have in common.
Ha ha ha... touché!
Ooooh, what if I do? I'm scared.
You don't know what I know and do not know. You're just doing what you always do, belittling and being a general jackass. Good enough for me!
As you call me a jackass, ROFLMAO! :D
i ate a turnover high the other day, if it matters
Only if you can't remember what the flavor was AND can't find you other flip flop.
Put away the broad brush. Education is still mostly a state and local issue despite the Bush/Kennedy disaster. Florida is not New York.
Apple turnover UT? I like blueberry best.
You also have to differentiate between grade school and high school teachers. High school teachers are paid more.
Screw all this, I'll be sending my kids to private school.
Oh like that'll make a difference - actually we all say that till we have them and have to pay for them.
Not an issue at all. If some extra money means my kids won't have to sit there teaching themselves math while their teacher has to cater to some delinquent who doesn't give a rat's ass, then it's totally worth it. I can't solve the problem anyway, if can shield my kids, I will.
Screw all this, I'll be sending my kids to private school.
Been there, done that, homeschooling now.
I've been thinking about going to teach at our local community college...could be a good experience for me and the peeps to be taught, especially since I rule.
Seriously...I'm about to lose my fucking mind delivering pizzas. That's a job to nowhere, and my home business is nowhere near profitable (or even really together) at this point.
Not an issue at all. If some extra money means my kids won't have to sit there teaching themselves math while their teacher has to cater to some delinquent who doesn't give a rat's ass, then it's totally worth it. I can't solve the problem anyway, if can shield my kids, I will.
A little careful selection when you're choosing the neighborhood you want to live in will accomplish the same thing for free. Keep in mind that "some extra money" will range anywhere from $6,000 to $20,000 a year, assuming it isn't a boarding school.
Been there, done that, homeschooling now.
You trust
LJ more to teach your kids than a teacher?
Well, at least your kids'll have an... ample vocabulary.
Not an issue at all. If some extra money means my kids won't have to sit there teaching themselves math while their teacher has to cater to some delinquent who doesn't give a rat's ass, then it's totally worth it. I can't solve the problem anyway, if can shield my kids, I will.
I know where you are coming from 9th - the problem is a little reality sets in - the cost is very prohibative. I moved out of state to get into one of the best school ditricts in the region. I paid more for my house, my property taxes tripled and I'm still waaaay ahead on the cost end. Most importantly my kids have/are getting a great education(s). I drive further to work, deal with other issues and pay income taxes in two states blah, blah, blah - my kids are getting a great education! There are alternatives, thats my point. They just require some innovative thinking sometimes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/29/opinion/29wed4.html
With 50 million children set to return to school, districts all over the country are still scrambling to fill teaching positions and are having an especially difficult time finding qualified applicants to fill shortages in vital areas like math and science. These shortages will persist and the education reform effort will continue to lag until states, localities and the federal government start paying much more attention to how teachers are trained, hired and assigned.
The problem was underscored by a front page article in The Times this week by Sam Dillon, which describes shortages so severe that some officials were seeking to fill positions by scooping up any warm body they could find. Better overall salaries and financial incentives for teachers who work in demanding areas are necessary. But the country must also adopt measures that increase the supply of high-quality teachers — especially in math and science — while cutting down on the distressingly large number of teachers who bail out of the profession early.
Public colleges and universities, which rely heavily on tax dollars, are a good place to start. The government should require them to turn out more high quality teachers of all kinds, especially math and science teachers. Ideally, the enrollments at these colleges of education should be based not on whim, but on projected need. The states should find ways to reward colleges that turn out excellent graduates, while shutting down diploma mills. The states and localities should also develop comprehensive plans not just for hiring, but for mentoring and retaining teachers as well.
Beyond that, large urban districts, especially ones with particularly needy school districts, need to abandon union work rules that give senior teachers the right to change schools whenever they wish — even if the receiving principal doesn’t want them. That forces out less senior teachers in the receiving school, a bumping process that can continue well into the summer. It both frustrates younger teachers and prevents school administrators from making timely hiring decisions.
I wonder how many of, "the distressingly large number of teachers who bail out of the profession early, bail out to get away from the increasing load of bullshit, like peanutbutter patrol, in addition to their teaching duties?
A lot of teachers are getting out of teaching because they're tired of bringing up other people's kids. They're tired of having to teach things like basic manners.
That is an issue.
It was also discouraged to call parents in to discuss it with them.
w-w-what???? I thought they just needed to be "educated" Weren't you touting that in the spanking thread?? Why is it different here?
You are both right in your own way.
It really depends on the needs of the child.
My Son has Impulse Control Disorder, which is not understood in the medical community, so how could it be understood in the class room.
Autistics are starting to get their own classes now, but a school could not focus on all disorders that exist.
At the same token, special education classrooms are being filled with children whom are in an infintile stage. Why are we paying for babysitters in an educational facility, but it is mandatory to be provided.
Some teachers simply need more instruction to deal with behavioral disorders, but currently the focus is on ADD/HD.
In public school my Son was developing violent habbits.
Now his KG teacher was unopen to new ideas so he was pulled and kept home for a year to undevelop those habbits.
He was placed in first gr. at a different school, and his teacher was great, but he was too distracted by the social aspect and lost interest in learning.
Now we use virtual school, and he completed 2 grades last year and is currently in 4th at age 8. He enjoys learning and we are able to help develop his social skills, while improving upon his academics and his refound love of learning.
As for school funding, what ever happened to fundraisers.
We always had fund raisers while I attended school.
And some problems go right to the communities unwillingness to pay higher taxes.
In 1800s the community that used a school payed for the school
Yeah, they should have more lamington drives.
I've been thinking about going to teach at our local community college...could be a good experience for me and the peeps to be taught, especially since I rule.
Oh, come teach here! Come on, it'll be fun (for me!) :)
Been there, done that, homeschooling now.
The home-schooled students we see are generally better equipped, and tend to excel almost effortlessly. Do you think it's because of the one-on-one, or the fact that parents know better than anyone their own kids' learning styles?
I don't have too many complaints about our local schools, here in Golden *yet* but I have considered homeschooling before. I can't seem to get past the fact that the social environment is very different and has to be somehow supplemented. Jinx, I am sure you have some way of doing this with your kids. I just don't know how I could provide enough of that without being a complete social butterfly, myself. (I am very shy in real life.)
You pick the place and times and let the kid do the rest.
Go to your local library. Chances are your kids friends already do.
Ours has thursday after school movies, pj parties, and once a month home school book club.
Also 14 of his own class mates live on our block.
Also visiting parks after school allows them to meet up with friends.
Do you think it's because of the one-on-one, or the fact that parents know better than anyone their own kids' learning styles?
I think a large part of it is because by definition, parents who homeschool are parents who care. Kids with parents who care will do better whether they are in public school or not.
My old high school system turned to hell during my last few years. Basically all the best teachers left out to retirement since they were getting to that age and troubles within the district for very young and inexperienced (bad) teachers.
Our whole school system should be redone in my opinion but that would be a long process.
I think a large part of it is because by definition, parents who homeschool are parents who care. Kids with parents who care will do better whether they are in public school or not.
Absolutely. You see it at our school too, which is a public school, but one with an alternative program which relies on lots of parental involvement. In fact it's parent run. Literally. The parents who don't care generally are not attracted to the school (it's is a magnet school, enrollment is not neighborhood-based), and the kids with parents who don't care who do end up there -well there are enough parents who do care to go around, so they get the benefit too.
Good points, clod and monster!
Homeschooling is great as long as it is not an excuse for religious indoctrination.
That is none of your business.
If by his business you mean that he shouldn't be able to prevent it, I agree. If you mean that he shouldn't say it isn't great, then I'll wholeheartedly disagree. Parents who homeschool to protect their kids from "evilution" or knowledge of contraception are doing their kids a grave disservice.
Homeschooling is great as long as it is not an excuse for religious indoctrination.
...or an excuse not to get out into the real world & work. I think the vast majority of homeschooling is a great thing, even though my kids got screwed by it.
...or an excuse not to get out into the real world & work. I think the vast majority of [COLOR="Red"]homescooling [/COLOR]is a great thing, even though my kids got screwed by it.
Especially if you were responsible for their spelling lesson. ;)
I don't have too many complaints about our local schools, here in Golden *yet* but I have considered homeschooling before. I can't seem to get past the fact that the social environment is very different and has to be somehow supplemented. Jinx, I am sure you have some way of doing this with your kids. I just don't know how I could provide enough of that without being a complete social butterfly, myself. (I am very shy in real life.)
We joined a health club - so the kids take classes (gymnastics, swimming, dance, cheerleading, karate, soccer, flag football, cooking, etc so far) with lots of other kids. And they just hang out at the pool, the kids gym, or the video game room sometimes too.
Last school year we were getting together about once a week with another homeschool family to do field trips. There are 2 or 3 other families interested in doing that with us this year.
I joined an email list (yahoo groups) for local homeschoolers, and there are always people looking to get together for this and that - as well as a ton of useful questions and answers.
I am *not* a social butterfly, and kept my kids in private school longer than I really wanted to because I was concerned about socialization. Its not so hard though, and it's
real. They play with the kids they really like - and aren't locked in a room with ones they don't, based only on age and lottery.
Whatever works for you though, that's my philosophy. Right now homeschooling is working for us but we do constantly reevaluate and stay aware of our options. (There's a quaker school that I would LOVE to send them to, just can't afford it)
Especially if you were responsible for their spelling lesson. ;)
LOL - great one for me - I was burnin the chicken and posted without checking.
I corrected it. :)
You trust LJ more to teach your kids than a teacher?
Well, at least your kids'll have an... ample vocabulary.
I'm the music teacher and occasional phys ed instructor. which is to say that jinx does ALL of the work. I'm busy getting the money.
My Son has Impulse Control Disorder, which is not understood in the medical community, so how could it be understood in the class room.
we used to call that 'being a dick' I still get that some days. only the days that end with a 'y' though.
Whatever works for you though, that's my philosophy. Right now homeschooling is working for us but we do constantly reevaluate and stay aware of our options. (There's a quaker school that I would LOVE to send them to, just can't afford it)
This is the answer. We're still in a Catholic school here because it's still working for us. No bullying, high expectations, and the friends they've been with for years... just try to do right by your kids.
I think Catholic and Episcopal schools are great. Many cater to other denominations and go out of their way not to indoctrinate.
The local Episcopal school advertises it and is the best school in the district.
I'm the music teacher and occasional phys ed instructor. which is to say that jinx does ALL of the work. I'm busy getting the money.
we used to call that 'being a dick' I still get that some days. only the days that end with a 'y' though.
Excuse me!
I think some on here are making very wrong comments on an issue involving children.
Could you please rethink your comment?
relax roost - thats just lj bein lj
relax roost - thats just lj bein lj
O.k. for now.
I am very sensitive when it comes to children, because they are born innocent, and we make them what they are.
So I have a hard time with some of these remarks here about children.
We try to anyway. When my youngest lived with hiws mother he was excessively violent. Punching holes oin the walls arguing all the time - fighting braking things... He's an honor roll student now. Trust me, I think I understand.
We try to anyway. When my youngest lived with hiws mother he was excessively violent. Punching holes oin the walls arguing all the time - fighting braking things... He's an honor roll student now. Trust me, I think I understand.
Hundreds of kids in the foster system, because this behavior is not the "norm."
most of them are so smart though, they need more work in social skills, because thier brain focuses on other development.
Congrats for your son.
Well Impulse Control Disorder is really an umbrella term covering many different disorders. Kleptomania, pyromania, and Intermittent Explosive Disorder would all be considered impulse disorders, but the term itself is too vague by itself to really mean much.
Most are abnormal extensions of what we might normally experience playing a sport for example. There is a buildup of intensity and energy which is released as pleasure after the touchdown or goal is scored. The difference between the person acting like a dick, and the person acting under these impulses is that between actions the person may feel ashamed or frightened of their actions, only to be irresistibly drawn to them as the tension builds again.
Hundreds of kids in the foster system, because this behavior is not the "norm."
most of them are so smart though, they need more work in social skills, because thier brain focuses on other development.
Congrats for your son.
Identifying the root cause, if possible, is the beginning of the solution. In my sons case, it was his mother - sux but true. He yearned for discipline and structure. Two things she was/is incapable of providing.
Excellent points 9th - you continue to amaze me with your broad range of insight.
Excuse me!
I think some on here are making very wrong comments on an issue involving children.
Could you please rethink your comment?
Here, I'll rethink it for him ...
A great deal of harm is done by pathologizing people, especially children, by deciding that bad behavior is part of a disorder or disease over which they have no control.
Yes, there are such people in existence.
But not at the rate at which they are currently identified and excused for criminal actions.
C'mon wolf, every kid born since 1990 has ADD or ADHD - right????
{dripping with sarcasm}
My own personal theory is that Sesame Street causes ADD. Poor parenting plus Sesame Street causes ADHD.
Can it be video games and doing lines of jell-o?
LOL - if it wasn't so sad - My wife had my son so medicated he was a walking zombie - all under the careful watch of three different "doctors."
Now he takes nothing, but an occassional phone call to me so he can vent. Geez, amazing what a little caring and communication can do - eh?
Can it be video games and doing lines of jell-o?
No.
Well, I'm not sure about the Jello (nice Savage Steve Holland reference there, boy), but video games tend to extend attention spans rather than shorten them.
Here, I'll rethink it for him ...
A great deal of harm is done by pathologizing people, especially children, by deciding that bad behavior is part of a disorder or disease over which they have no control.
Thank god someone said it. I would have, but I have a short attention span... I mean ADD. Best bet is to try raising your children before excusing them. I don't mean 'punish them sternly for their mistakes' but for god sakes, if you're the kind of parent who asks your kid for permission for things, you're not allowed to wonder why he's a dick... I mean, :ahem: has a
Disorder.
But, same caveat as wolf: there ARE people who have these disorders, they're just over diagnosed to the extent that it's pretty commonly a big joke.
No.
Well, I'm not sure about the Jello (nice Savage Steve Holland reference there, boy), but video games tend to extend attention spans rather than shorten them.
I know.
Well Impulse Control Disorder is really an umbrella term covering many different disorders. Kleptomania, pyromania, and Intermittent Explosive Disorder would all be considered impulse disorders, but the term itself is too vague by itself to really mean much.
Most are abnormal extensions of what we might normally experience playing a sport for example. There is a buildup of intensity and energy which is released as pleasure after the touchdown or goal is scored. The difference between the person acting like a dick, and the person acting under these impulses is that between actions the person may feel ashamed or frightened of their actions, only to be irresistibly drawn to them as the tension builds again.
Actually it includes multiples of the disorders that fall under the category.
Several phsychologist believe it could be linked to the serotonin level in the brain. Serotonin from foods can not get to this area. A serotonin reuptake inhibitor is available, but it may disturb the rest of a childs development, so we will wait till he is 12 to take the neurotransmittor test, which I hear can be inconclusive.
There are also several non related disorders which have similiar symptoms, which makes it very important for these children to be constantly monitored.
Here, I'll rethink it for him ...
A great deal of harm is done by pathologizing people, especially children, by deciding that bad behavior is part of a disorder or disease over which they have no control.
Yes, there are such people in existence.
But not at the rate at which they are currently identified and excused for criminal actions.
I could not possibly count the number of mothers who claim thier child ADD/HD, when in fact it is a child who needs nurturing.
And boys are no longer allowed to be just boys.
My sons KG teacher held back at least half of her male population for not being socially ready.
How this hurts those children in the academics.
There seems to be a point where the childs natural love of learning dwindles away and they get caught up in a very emotional world.
Excuse me!
I think some on here are making very wrong comments on an issue involving children.
Could you please rethink your comment?
no, sorry, I meant it. did you just say, "won't someone think of the children?!" cuz...pleeze.
Here, I'll rethink it for him ...
A great deal of harm is done by pathologizing people, especially children, by deciding that bad behavior is part of a disorder or disease over which they have no control.
Yes, there are such people in existence.
But not at the rate at which they are currently identified and excused for criminal actions.
dammit wolf...i was being subtle. do you have to explain it so succinctly?
sorry, roost.....Impulse control disorder is bullshit. just like SIDS. it's a blanket excuse for an asshole kid. toughen up and discipline the little fucker. actions have consequences. If your kid can't understand that, he/she needs to experience some pain and/or loss.
i dont care if you think im a dick. i had the impulse to tell you what i was really thinking.
There are studies out there which suggest that there may not even be any such thing as add or adhd. Maybe they're right, maybe they're not, but in my very personal experience, I'd say there are very few, if any kids who actually have any of these disorders.
I think they're mostly bullshit excuses for poor parenting or other psychological issues a kid might have from prior experiences.
I guess that means I agree with jimbo.
There are studies out there which suggest that there may not even be any such thing as add or adhd. Maybe they're right, maybe they're not, but in my very personal experience, I'd say there are very few, if any kids who actually have any of these disorders.
I think they're mostly bullshit excuses for poor parenting or other psychological issues a kid might have from prior experiences.
I guess that means I agree with jimbo.
Infact discipline is still well intact as I allow no excuses. These issues simply mean the child has to work far harder than others.
They did show in these children that a certain area of the brain is shut down.
Anyway you guys have all the answers so I will leave you to it....
I don't think i'm definitely wrong about what I said. I said it was in my personal experience. I said there are studies to support my claims. You must be aware of them or you wouldn't be arguing against them.
Most people only use 10% of their brain. That means about 90% of everyone's brain must be 'shut down'. Actually, i'd be interested to know what you mean by shut down.
With other illnesses which affect the brain zer are vays off making zem vork you know. ;)
btw, I also definitely did not say that your child has been misdiagnosed. I said that I believe very few children actually have the disorders they've been attributed with.
I used to believe the ADD/ADHD thing was crap. And to medicate young kids so quickly rather than nixing the bandaid and getting to the root of the problem was a crime against the child. And for the most part, I still feel the same way.
However, my best friend's youngest son, who is not lacking for discipline or attention or anything else, and is the sweetest and most loving little boy, has some serious freaking issues with attention. If he was my kid, I would have either killed him or been institutionalized myself years ago. I love him, but he drive me nuts to be around him. It was a hard 2-year decision for his parents to medicate him, but it has helped him tremendously. He nearly failed 2nd and 3rd grades, but seems to have turned a corner and is doing MUCH better since getting his meds straight. He's like a totally different kid who can carry on a conversation now without being all over the map and largely incoherent with his thought processes.
The problem is that it is so much easier to keep reapplying a bandaid than it is to find the root of the problem and fix it. It's been my experience that both parents HAVE to work full time to survive, and they're tired and less patient with their children, and have less time to spend with them. Parents fail their kids.
Schools are more concerned with guns, knives, drugs, perverts, and mysterious white powders than education - and can you blame them? Schools fail the kids.
And then you have some drug-pushing "doctor" whose education was - directly or indirectly - paid for by the pharmaceutical companies, and they're just happy to keep scheduling office visits and writing more scripts for the kickbacks.
The whole system is fucked up, and it's out of control. There isn't any one person or entity to blame - it's the sum of it all.
Most people only use 10% of their brain. That means about 90% of everyone's brain must be 'shut down'. Actually, i'd be interested to know what you mean by shut down.
That is a myth, most of the brain is used for memory storage so it won't be active like the rest but every part of the brain is used by a healthy person.
I used to believe the ADD/ADHD thing was crap. And to medicate young kids so quickly rather than nixing the bandaid and getting to the root of the problem was a crime against the child. And for the most part, I still feel the same way.
I think a lot of the ADHD has to do with age and once they hit puberty, they will outgrow it. My younger brother took medication for ADHD and it actually did help him (he got better grades, ect) and now he is much more calm even being off it for a good amount of years.
As long as parents stress self control to their kids when they are taking breaks from their medicine I'm sure most kids can outgrow ADD/ADHD.
You are definately wrong
WTF?
How dare you people argue with the great and mighty roost? roost has to be a sock puppet, I just can't figure out whose.
But I could be definitely wrong.
Well I wasn't too offended by being told I'm definitely wrong. In fact, not at all. My opinion might be wrong to others, but it's pretty damn right to me. ;) Besides, there is evidence to support my claims, as well as everyone else's, so we're all definitely right by those standards.
I did manage to be born before 1990, but in my Private school (k - 3rd grade) the teaching staff called my parents in one day to tell them they felt I had ADD and gave different names of doctors who were in our area that would give me the "help" I needed. My parents were so angry that they had me tested. Turns out I had a high IQ and was bored in my classes, so I was slacking off.
Parents decided to move me into a public school at that point (schools in our area are very good) and I did much better there.
Scariest part of the school system that I see is kids getting passed along who don't know or understand the material. Should you really be in a college composition class if you don't understand the difference between adjectives and adverbs? I think that, at the VERY least, should be covered in a remedial class. (I could rant for hours on THAT...but I'll stop here.)
I did manage to be born before 1990, but in my Private school (k - 3rd grade) the teaching staff called my parents in one day to tell them they felt I had ADD and gave different names of doctors who were in our area that would give me the "help" I needed. My parents were so angry that they had me tested. Turns out I had a high IQ and was bored in my classes, so I was slacking off.
Parents decided to move me into a public school at that point (schools in our area are very good) and I did much better there.
Scariest part of the school system that I see is kids getting passed along who don't know or understand the material. Should you really be in a college composition class if you don't understand the difference between adjectives and adverbs? I think that, at the VERY least, should be covered in a remedial class. (I could rant for hours on THAT...but I'll stop here.)
IQ really isn't a good indicator of whether or not you have symptoms of ADHD. I went through the same thing. I was bored in class, have an IQ of around 130 (not that IQ is a real accurate indicator of intelligence capabilities anyway.. that's a whole different subject for another time), but my ADHD was messing with my schooling. Do you experience any ADHD type symptoms? Zone out, fidget with pencils/gum/whatever, have a song constantly running through your head like you're living a movie with the soundtrack playing, can't tune out background noise, etc.?
I know what you mean, sometimes it astonishes me how little some people understand is some of my classes. Then again, this is the learnin time of life, I can't say I know everything.
Zone out, fidget with pencils/gum/whatever, have a song constantly running through your head like you're living a movie with the soundtrack playing, can't tune out background noise, etc.?
And so what if I do? That's a good reason to drug me up with ritalin? No thanks. I don't care if I have ADHD, it's no excuse for anything. If I'm not paying attention, then I already know it, or, well, my loss. I'm not gonna whine and cry about some 'disease' that way, way too many people are s'posed to have.
Besides, if you ask me, anyone who CAN sit and concentrate and not fidget and DOESNT have a song going through their head... is the crazy one.
And so what if I do? That's a good reason to drug me up with ritalin? No thanks. I don't care if I have ADHD, it's no excuse for anything. If I'm not paying attention, then I already know it, or, well, my loss. I'm not gonna whine and cry about some 'disease' that way, way too many people are s'posed to have.
Besides, if you ask me, anyone who CAN sit and concentrate and not fidget and DOESNT have a song going through their head... is the crazy one.
I'm not saying get all pumped full of amphetamines. There are organizational and study techniques that my psychologist has given me that have been of great help so far. If you have ADHD there are a wide variety of things that a person can do to minimize the effects that person's unique symptoms have on his or her life.
And don't even try to tell me that ADHD is all some fairy tale. True it is overdiagnosed in kids these days, but that does not take away from thos eof us who seriously suffer from this shit. You don't know what it is like to literally not be able to pay attention to
anything being said to you in class because of the smallest distractions going on in your head (replaying conversations, tv shows/movies, songs, other stuff going on in your life) and the surrounding environment. The buzzing of an overhead light, the sound of a person writing notes next to you, etc. I'm talking unable to pay constant attention at all, to the point where I have to ask people for their notes after class because I just couldn't focus on what the prof. or teacher was saying. All day, everyday, for your entire life. You go from task to task at home not fully completing anything because you are so impulsive that you are just bouncing from one thing to the next. Welcome to my world dude.
I apologize if that was a bit testy. With some of the profs I've had these past years, I wouldn't blame anyone for being fidgety and not paying attention. Some of these folks need to seek a different profession.
I'm not saying get all pumped full of amphetamines. There are organizational and study techniques that my psychologist has given me that have been of great help so far. If you have ADHD there are a wide variety of things that a person can do to minimize the effects that person's unique symptoms have on his or her life.
And don't even try to tell me that ADHD is all some fairy tale. True it is overdiagnosed in kids these days, but that does not take away from thos eof us who seriously suffer from this shit. You don't know what it is like to literally not be able to pay attention to anything being said to you in class because of the smallest distractions going on in your head (replaying conversations, tv shows/movies, songs, other stuff going on in your life) and the surrounding environment. The buzzing of an overhead light, the sound of a person writing notes next to you, etc. I'm talking unable to pay constant attention at all, to the point where I have to ask people for their notes after class because I just couldn't focus on what the prof. or teacher was saying. All day, everyday, for your entire life. You go from task to task at home not fully completing anything because you are so impulsive that you are just bouncing from one thing to the next. Welcome to my world dude.
I apologize if that was a bit testy. With some of the profs I've had these past years, I wouldn't blame anyone for being fidgety and not paying attention. Some of these folks need to seek a different profession.
dont tell me I don't know what it's like. I've been diagnosed with ADHD, whether I believe it's a serious concern or not. I have the exact same attention problem that you do, possibly to a
slightly lesser degree. I get in trouble regularly for fiddling, for fidgeting, for not looking at the teacher, for messing around altogether too much. But everything I said holds true. I've got fifty stories I haven't finished, fifty songs I've learned or written half of, fifty thousand things to do I started but never got around to finishing. Don't preach to the choir here.
Didn't know you were in the choir.. welcome to the club, wanna make t-shirts?
And just fyi I think you're a cool guy Ibram. Didn't mean to come off rude to you.
I didn't really have ADD type symptoms...the school used to tell us to "feel free to get up and stretch if we are bored during class" so, I did. Also, I'm very artsy...doodling during class a lot of times keeps me focused on listening to lecture, dunno why, just keeps me from getting bored and wandering off in thought...most teachers see it as me not paying attention (for obvious reasons) so I got in trouble for that all through school. Clearly the rest of this story is second-hand info because I was in 3rd grade when I got tested (also why I said I "had" high IQ, as I've no idea what it is now) sos I dunno how the exact events played out. All I remember personally was going to the hospital every day for "tests" which were rather fun for me.