Racism.
Does society have any hope of getting past racism, if they don't even know what it is?
Everybody's racist. Anyone who claims they aren't is a lying racist.
I don't think it matters.
Everybody's racist. Anyone who claims they aren't is a lying racist. ...
What's worse is somebody who is saying they are not a racist, but everybody else (
of a certain race) is racist (
because of their race).
I never said anyone of a certain race is racist.
I said two overencompassing ideas on the board:
1--white people will never know what it is like to be a minority (and the inverse is implied)
2--White privilege pertains to all white people, as shown in my article in IotD.
Quote me where I said
but everybody else (of a certain race) is racist (because of their race).
hmm, not up on all the controversy, but I will say this:
does society have any hope of overcoming racism? My opinion, assuming we are talking "western" society--yes. Yes, because there's always hope; yes, because we have made progress; and yes, because, well--there's that hope thing again. (I'm only talking western society, because that's the one I live in and am most familiar with.)
I acknowledge that it is a human trait, not exclusive to any one race, to hate and fear the different. Individuals can rise above that, and I believe individual societies can, too, if the right factors, such as prosperity and education, are present.
It is implied in the links you have provided defining "white privilege".
Opening line from one of your links on page 2 of this thread:
"I was taught to see racism only in individual acts of meanness, not in invisible systems conferring dominance on my group"
and another:
Many, perhaps most, of our white students in the United States think that racism doesn't affect them because they are not people of color; they do not see "whiteness" as a racial identity.
Comments such as these hint to it. The tactic among those who do not believe that non-whites are or can be racist is to redefine the issue as "white privilege". That is a fantasy definition which places all the blame for todays current situation on one group all the while attempting to relieve anyone else of responsiblity for their current situation in life.
"1--white people will never know what it is like to be a minority (and the inverse is implied)"
Maybe not "technically", but everyday "white" people are passed up for jobs because of "EEO". Employers are "extremely encouraged" to employ a minority for work. Two can apply and have the same qualifications, but if a minority applies - they will be hired. Not in all cases will this happen, but I would say well over 50% of the time it will.
Everybody's racist. Anyone who claims they aren't is a lying racist.
I disagree. I do agree, however, that everyone has prejudices.
1--white people will never know what it is like to be a minority (and the inverse is implied)
Uuuuuunless they live and work in an area where they
are a minority. I'm sorry you're pissed off at the racial diversity of Illinois, fresh, but it's not like that everywhere. I was a minority all the way until high school, at which point we were split into even thirds; Hispanic, black, and white.
ALL asians are racists. duh.
I never said anyone of a certain race is racist.
I said two overencompassing ideas on the board:
1--white people will never know what it is like to be a minority (and the inverse is implied)
2--White privilege pertains to all white people, as shown in my article in IotD.
Quote me where I said
Sorry fresh- after reading this post I actually decided to vote.....
I was a minority when I lived in Britain as a kid. It wasn't a very remarkable experience. For a while I was called a name, treated differently by teachers and administrators, didn't understand key cultural things, etc.
It's a harder experience than, say, having bad acne. Easier than having your leg amputated.
The minority experience is hard but not uncommon... in fact I would say a majority of people have experienced it. Clod, as a woman in hands-on technology fields and gaming, you've been a minority most of your adult life, eh?
When ANYBODY assumes something about another person, based on their racial heritage. - Should this have included something negative or is there positive racism too? I voted, but I really didn't like the three choices.
Racism will continue to be a problem as long as we continue to focus on it. This isn't the 1940's. We know that skin color doesn't define abilities. The racism debate and all that goes along with it only continues to serve as a means of dividing us. As long as there is an "us vs. them" mentality of any type then it will continue to be a problem. Yes, that means that people who believe "white people don't understand" are adding to the problem. I don't have to be run over by a bus to know that it is not a good thing. I don't have to smoke crack to know that it is not good for me. I don't have to possess an official minority membership card to know that racism hurts.
I think you've made some good points, but I'm not sure I agree with your approach, Lookout. I'd say, rather, that racism will always be with us as long as we DON'T focus on it, and educate people on how to combat it. Sweeping under the rug never causes progress.
That depends on how you focus on it. I know the corporate way sucks.
Btw, I was not the one who voted the first option. Someone's just out there trying to set me up.
Set you up? Paranoid are we? Victim of conspiracies and racism at every turn?
I don't give a shit who you are, you've experienced racism - or so called "reverse" racism (I abhor that term) - or some form of prejudice at some point in your life. As an adult, you should be able to recognize the differences between races, cultures, any classification of peoples you can possibly make, and celebrate our differences. And you should be able to consider the source and not get your feelings hurt.
You want to complain about suffering at the hands of racists in countries such as ours? Seriously??? I hardly think I know real racism, nor do I think most people do.
You want to give credence to those ignorant jackasses who do discriminate by feeding into their bullshit? You're just as much a part of the problem.
Ultimately, the race card is played out. In everything.
Get the fvck over it.
I don't believe in races, there is only one, the human race.
People who think they are special because of their, heritage, culture, color, what happened to someone in the past, etc are pathetic.
What makes one special is only ONE thing, just what that one person has DONE, nothing more.
Everyone has experienced prejudice against them for some reason, their age, height, abilities, color (all colors), hair (or lack of), tits, feet, smell, clothes, voice, dialect, culture, education (I mean if they were educated or not... I have had more prejudice from having a degree and being articulate than from anything other than being a white male), etc, etc, etc...
If you can't deal with it, why do you do anything?... because you are living for how others see you and you are not a real person, you are a shadow.
Just ignore it, move on.
People who think they are special because of their, heritage, culture, color, what happened to someone in the past, etc are pathetic.
Huh?
Did you consider yourself pathetic when you wanted to join that
Celtic heritage club?
Welcome back, btw.
Did you not get that I was being... never mind, it would be wasted on you. I'm sure you thought I really wanted to start a real old-time gentleman's club too.
Thank you.
Racism will continue to be a problem as long as we continue to focus on it.
I'm not sure this works either. Didn't France try this, only to have it burn them 2 years ago?
Did you not get that I was being... never mind, it would be wasted on you. I'm sure you thought I really wanted to start a real old-time gentleman's club too.
Don't worry, rk. I get you...far better than you get me, apparently. :p
I never said ignore, when I stated it I said actively refuse to discuss religion in any way.
Make it impossible for people to have a religious discussion in ANY way, positive, negative, neutrual... just make it impossible, not just hard, impossible.
Trust me, it is BIG FUN!
Especially at work when they try to complain about it, LOL!
Don't worry, rk. I get you...far better than you get me, apparently. :p
Yeah, that whole thing was weird, had nothing to do with race at all and no one could understand that... the "racist" darker folks
freaked when I started mentioning people like Jimi Hendricks who would apply. I'm still confused.
There are lots of people who are darker who have been in the Nordic nations for
many generations.
No one gets it.
Culture and race have nothing to do with each other and neither are anything to be proud of, but can be interesting.
Clod, as a woman in hands-on technology fields and gaming, you've been a minority most of your adult life, eh?
Oh sure, but Fresh already indicated that he doesn't consider being a woman being a minority.* I was just trying to stick with examples he might grasp.
*And
technically you guys do die faster, so we are the majority in most countries... ;)
Fresh has not seen any numbers in the management/education admin field then.
No glass ceiling in Fresh's world, must be nice?
i've found from personal experience that in life there's only one color that matters, green. If you have money you're less likely to rob a liquor store, mug somone, sell drugs, commit a violent crime, join a gang, have a low paying job etc...
But, you are more likely to have once paid for a high priced hooker.
& to have committed white collar crime which ruins and ends more people's lives than any other crime out there.
Fresh has not seen any numbers in the management/education admin field then.
No glass ceiling in Fresh's world, must be nice?
I wish I could say I understand that but I'd be lieing. I'm just a kid dude, remember.
Gee, I spend a couple of days doing other stuff and look what happens. I miss out on all the fun.
I picked option two.
I think fresh is a kid who has a long way to go in the world yet. At least he's trying which is more than can be said for some.
Racism is everywhere and it's far more insidious than the blatant racism that most of us will think of when we consider the question.
It will always be a problem because there's no way to stop people from thinking their own race is the best. I say that because it starts at home. You think your family is best. The extention is you think your street is the best. You think your suburb is the best. You think your city is the best. You think your country is the best.
The human race lives this way because the instinct is to defend your territory. Just like any other animal, we will fight to keep those that are 'not like us' out, so whether it happens blatantly or insidiously, it happens.
It's human nature to discriminate.
That's why we're doomed!
But, you are more likely to have once paid for a high priced hooker.
Which is an...aaahhhhh.... bad?.... um.... thing?:whofart:
I wish I could say I understand that but I'd be lieing. I'm just a kid dude, remember.
It means that no matter what color a woman is, she is going to get paid less and not get into management. The same is true for the disabled.
http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/glass.html"kid" card. "race" card.
I need a card.
I honestly did not understand what he was saying. Is that so wrong of me? You need to get off my back, please. I'm only 19 so I said "kid" because that's what I am compared to most of the people here, and that helped explain why I didn't understand Rk's phrase, no more no less. I wasn't crying "kid" card. You don't want to be like Flint, Shawnee and take all your energy to put me down. What a waste of time.
Now I feel like a doof. I did forget....I want to take my vote back. Scratch that....sorry fresh. You'll learn in your own good time maybe. Hopefully.......
I forget that places like this...anyone can be in here and sometimes the subjects are too mature to be tackled by those that are naive an unprepared. I need to watch it.
I honestly did not understand what he was saying. Is that so wrong of me? You need to get off my back, please. I'm only 19 so I said "kid" because that's what I am compared to most of the people here, and that helped explain why I didn't understand Rk's phrase, no more no less. I wasn't crying "kid" card. You don't want to be like Flint, Shawnee and take all your energy to put me down. What a waste of time.
That actually took no energy. And you know what? I've been staying away from you. I have NOT been on your back. I DO get sick of all the excuses you and others make for your blindness. If you can't hang with the big dogs stay on the fucking porch. If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. Pick a cliche. Seriously, quit glomming on to anyone you think will chastise the rest of it for calling you on your crap. You don't fool me.
Oh, and Flint is godlike. :rolleyes: I'm sure he'll appreciate the mention.
Thanks Cicero.
And Shawnee...if you weren't on my back why would you make that post that directly or indirectly points at me. And what the fuck does this mean :
If you can't hang with the big dogs stay on the fucking porch.
I'm just going to anger you but I see no relevance in it at all.
Go ahead and get a room with Flint then.
booooohooooooooowooooo. There's that glomming. "Oh Cicero, thank you for coming to the rescue of my poor asian young ass."
Get a room with flint. That is so clever of you.
Then you run and play the innocent, eyelash -batting victim. "I don't want to anger you.....booohooooo. Shawnee's just so MEAN. Wah."
Whatever. If you have sand in your vagina it's not my problem. You didn't even explain what you said. Please ignore me, forever. I beg you. I'll be so much happier. Hope you will too.
breaking up is so hard to do
Whatever. If you have sand in your vagina it's not my problem. You didn't even explain what you said. Please ignore me, forever. I beg you. I'll be so much happier. Hope you will too.
God you are a nasty little sexist fuckwad, aren't you? Guess what? I don't care that you're asian, I don't care that you're young, I don't even care about the fact that you have a penis. You just proved my point about what kind of person you are with a blatant anti-woman comment like that.
JUST like when you talked about women being on the rag. JUST like when you assumed the girl in the trailer was "trash."
Worthless.
It's from South Park. It wasn't meant to be sexist, you just interpreted it that way. It was meant to be an insulting joke, or did you miss that? Maybe you're trying to look for that sexist comment. But whatever, go ahead and block me. I'm doing a great job of making you a raging cunt (sexist? or very commonly used Dwellar word) so don't give me the satisfaction. I am worthless to you. So do something about it.
OH MY GOD DO YOU HEAR YOURSELF? IT's ok for YOU to joke about racism or sexism but not for anyone to talk about eating dogs?
You call me a cunt again and there will be something to say.
Sure I hear myself. But why do you still hear me? That's why I advocate you blocking me.
Don't want you back
in case anyone's wondering these are song titles to fit the plot that is going on right now!
No way. This is too much fun.
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em:
Is it true all asian men have itty-bitty penises? I slept with one once and I could barely find the thing. Is that true for all of you. :lol:
Don't want you back
in case anyone's wondering these are song titles to fit the plot that is going on right now!
got that. It's just not very funny. You don't write for a comedian, do you? ;)
my soft spot, dang you got me.
You must be a hoe then. Making your way on the reservation?
move bitch get out the way
You have no idea. Of course, you couldn't afford me (you're more the rice paddy hoe type). Then again I"d probably charge you less...a small dick AND comes in 3 and half seconds. Then there's the dry cleaning bill since you can't control it. Oh decisions decisions.
I do have an idea. I been up to Minnesota on a mission trip and saw this dude face down in the grass next to his house. There was a woman who just walked by with her brown paper bag. And then I thought to myself "is this what the handouts do?"
I bet you did. You poor little rich kid. Tough to see what happens to those who aren't still sucking their mother's tit, isn't it?
because any of that post makes sense? Go ahead, get the last word in, I'm dipping out of this thread.
because any of that post makes sense? Go ahead, get the last word in, I'm dipping out of this thread
But, but, you wanted me to block you so YOU could get in the last word.
woooohoooo!
Yes it makes sense, you moron!:lol: Reeeeeeeead itttttt sllllllowlyyyyy.
OH for god's sake, don't PM me again, little one. I see you.
Shawnee, you've got mail!
We sailed on together
We drifted apart
And here you are by my side
so now I come
to you
with oooooooooooooopen arms
nothing to hide
believe what I say
Jeb...that's annoying....
not even funny.
ok let's go back to spitting racial slurs then...
Guess what? This is the first time I've ever said anything racial to FC and that was only to TRY to make him see that sexist crap statements are no different. But, he doesn't get it.
If you don't really know what's going on, please go back to the lame lyrics insertions.
my soft spot, dang you got me.
You must be a hoe then. Making your way on the reservation?
[youtube]TfHqv8YAA9w[/youtube]
Geez - I gotta work for a couple freakin hours and look what happens - Wow - just freakin wow.
Exactly which line of philsophy is this again?
Oh yeah, and I agree with rk!
That was just amazing. I am impressed at the speed with which this thread degenerated. Outstanding Shawnee !
I'll get it back on track and I haven't read the thread yet so keep that in mind.
I personally don't believe in race even though I am subconciously racist because of where I was raised. There are two ways I can see racism going away.
1) Everyone becomes the same race
2) A society is fully integrated by race
The first reason is obvious and the second reason is because racism stems from stereotypes and a fully integrated society will eliminate the stereotypes, which will eliminate racism to the point where skin color and minute physical features will be as relevant as hair and eye color to white society today.
I think the first answer is more likely than the second unfortunately.
I think the first answer is more likely than the second unfortunately.
I think neither is likely in the short term.
Anecdote: I recall about two years ago watching a TV reporter try to get a sense of people's opinions of recent migration trends and how it was affecting their local area etc. He interviewed a bunch of people and looked at a bunch of statistics, but one part really stuck in my mind. He interviewed a young British Asian about his opinions and he was vehement that we shouldn't be letting in all these immigrants and letting them leech off the state etc. That young man, of about 20 years old, who was born in the UK, but whose parents were most likely from Pakistan, or Kashmir, considered himself British to the point of sharing in our slightly xenophobic national character.
Racism isn't always a matter of colour. It isn't just about the other, it's also about the self. There will always be those who are other, and those who are other, will always to a certain extent help us define ourselves at a cultural level.
To comment on the poll, basically the argument is "reactionary racism" the same as oppressionary racism (yes I made that word up).
Either way the answer will be hypocritical with the rest of society. If I murder someone I will go to jail for 25 years but if someone tries to murder and I fight back and murder them I leave on self defense. If I steal from someone I will go to jail but if someone steals from me and I steal something back I will still go to jail. They both can be compared to how racism works but just not as extreme since reactionary racism can be seen both as resistance against being oppressed and revenge.
I personally think the biggest reason is intent (see last sentence). If a group have been told by society to be ashamed of their skin and they get together to boost each others confidence without the presence of the symbol of the oppressor, that is not bad in my opinion. If they create a group just to hate on others, then racism can easily be applied.
You also have to remember that white only groups are usually institutionalized anyways so you are comparing apples with oranges. Black only groups usually have to be openly discriminatory while white only groups don't have to be openly discriminatory to be discriminatory.
That was just amazing. I am impressed at the speed with which this thread degenerated. Outstanding Shawnee !
lol...the thread degenerated as compared to the
beginning of the thread where one of the poll answer choices was:
freshnesschronic is a fucking racist shit-for-brains? I think it might have been elevated. :lol: ;)
Now, as the lines become blurred the real issue becomes clearer... less intellectual people feel they need a "them" to hate and blame their short-comings on.
When you can't use something you've used before like the imaginary "race" bs, then it will be xenophobia, class, culture, etc...
It is an "I accept truth" vs. "I have no ego of my own" issue.
Some just need to create false issues so they can look-down on others so they can feel better about themselves. People like that don't do things that they can be proud of on their own, so they have to create them.
"Racism" is a symptom... it is not the problem.
You also have to remember that white only groups are usually institutionalized anyways so you are comparing apples with oranges. Black only groups usually have to be openly discriminatory while white only groups don't have to be openly discriminatory to be discriminatory.
Why is that?
If they are private organizations they should be able to hire whomever they like or if not, neither should be able to hire only one color.
No double-standard.
First let me apologize, for being born a White Anglo Saxon Protestant.
My Great Grand Father owned slaves, and left Missouri in the middle of the night he broke the law by teaching his people to read and rite. Having already left the Marine Corps he sat out the civil war in Texas, selling his crops and live stock to the highest bidder.
Racism was not allowed in our house when I was growing up.
I must admit that I do not do business with middle eastern Muslims that is because of the way I have been treated by these people.
I am not going to join the Klan or the Aryan Brotherhood or any such group. people are given many chances to prove themselves to me.
rite now the object of my disdain is a 40 year old white woman, that owes me $30.00 for fixing her car. if she does not pay me soon I will be prejudiced against her. If ass holedness is a race then I am a racist.
So 90+% of blacks and every other minority are less intellectual?
You can not confuse oppression and reaction to oppression and the denial of a problem just makes it worse.
What is the truth rkzenrage? That whites and blacks have equal opportunities? That if everyone just says "I don't believe in race", all the problems will just go away?
How did you get that from my post? I love to see what you get out of my posts.
Have you ever had your reading comprehension tested?
Everyone has the same chance to deal with what they have been dealt.
I don't believe in fair. It is one of the stupidest ideas out there.
Is it fair that I can't be in the NBA? What laws are you going to pass to make that happen for me? LOL!
The problems are not supposed to go away... that is not government's job.
This is what you DON'T UNDERSTAND.
Why is that?
If they are private organizations they should be able to hire whomever they like or if not, neither should be able to hire only one color.
No double-standard.
You missed the point. There is a double standard because of a hidden double standard. You are denying the existence of that second double standard.
Racism is hidden and coincides in classism and as long we have a classist system it will be also be racist.
How did you get that from my post? I love to see what you get out of my posts.
Have you ever had your reading comprehension tested?
Everyone has the same chance to deal with what they have been dealt.
I don't believe in fair. It is one of the stupidest ideas out there.
Is it fair that I can't be in the NBA? What laws are you going to pass to make that happen for me? LOL!
The problems are not supposed to go away... that is not government's job.
This is what you DON'T UNDERSTAND.
Yes, lets go back to the caste systems when life was so much better...
There are things you can change and things you can't change. And your analogy doesn't work.
There are two reasons for how we are (non-physical) in the world.
1) Genetics
2) Social forces
Since you have said that race doesn't exist many times you believe that white and blacks have the same genetic potential so that means the reason has to go to social forces. You can change social forces.
You are not able to play basketball because of a physical condition that is unchangeable.
Also, you can join a wheelchair basketball (I don't know the real name of it) team that is discriminatory against people that can play basketball without one.
You can change social forces.
Then stop talking about race.
I cannot join chair basketball, they don't allow power-chairs and I am unable to do that activity, plus it is not "equal" and "fair".
Oh... I see... we are going to have a double-standard because they have one.
"We hate them, they are bad... so we are going to be
just like them"... makes perfect sense, LOL!
WTF does
this mean?
So 90+% of blacks and every other minority are less intellectual?
Then stop talking about race.
Believe me, I would love to do that but you can not do that as long as their is an inequality like there is now.
Oh... I see... we are going to have a double-standard because they have one.
I want to get rid of the first double-standard which will get rid of the second. I am just tolerant of the second double-standard. I know neither will go away either time soon BTW.
WTF does this mean?
You said that less intellectual people make up an excuse to blame their shortfallings on. I am sure that 90+% of blacks will talk about white oppression to this day. A lot of which have very high levels of education, so I am wondering where you got that first statement from?
Again, I don't believe in fair.
Education and intellect have nothing to do with each other.
If someone blames others on their own shortcomings, yes, they are a moron.
:headshake seriously, what has happened to the cellar?
I think we're still blaming AudioGalaxy.
My Moms second husband "Sonny" was an African American, he did not like that term, as a WW II veteran . He put up with racism of all kinds even after working his way up to management of the maintenance crew at Leisure World El Toro. Even then racism was still present. He was a good man and as much of a dad to me as Mr. Bell was, and I miss them both.
A statement that Sonny made one time is that "most people that bad things happen to, create their own problems" truer words were never spoken.
:headshake seriously, what has happened to the cellar?
You quit showing up.
:headshake