NFL Should Dump Vick
NFL Should Dump Vick
"Football has always been my favorite sport and kids deserve to have their heros, but Michael Vick must be canned. Anyone who advocates and participates in human or animal cruelty of any kind is the antithesis of a hero.
Atlanta and the NFL both need to dump Vick. The sooner, the better and Vick should never again be allowed to have a dog. Fighting dogs, roosters and other animals is disgusting and the way they are trained is also horrendously cruel to the dogs and the animals involved in the training. Kittens and other animals are used to teach the dogs to kill. It's all practiced by sick minds.
Dump Michael Vick....and get it over with"
Its time we took a stand against these athletes doing, acting and saying anything they want without repercussion - I say we make an example out of him . . . if its true.
Michael Vick should not be shunned by the NFL for what he did according to the federal indictment. I mean, what he allegedly did according to the federal indictment.
Micheal Vick should be expelled from the NFL for lying to the commissioner about what he did according to the federal indictment. Allegedly.
Michael Vick is a piece of shit. I mean, allegedly, he's a piece of shit. There's no doubt in my mind that anyone who takes part in that kind of animal torture, is a sociopath and is not worthy of being a member of society.
Prediction: He's lost his Nike endorsement, even if they haven't come right out and said it yet. He'll blow what's left of his cheese on defense attorneys, and still do time. He'll have no football career, no money, and he'll go right back to the backasswards inbred mountains where he came from and do it again.
Sick F*uck. I say we put him in a pen and let him fight it out with a dog. No freaking excuses for that kind of crap.
Wow. So harsh.
So let me say it. Michael Vick is awesome.
The best athlete in the professional league of football.
I'd hate to see him banned from the game.
If anyone has watched Sportscenter recently there was a great debate on Vick and what his future holds. And they got it right.
Everyone who has previously posted holds a cultural bias. Well duh, so do I. But many African Americans don't feel the same way about animals. The debate said many football players said "Man, it's just some dogs, man." That's how I believe too, it's just some dogs.
Michael Vick does not have a criminal record at all, so for everyone to immediately get on the bandwagon saying "this guys is a load of shit" doesn't know anything about him.
There is a huge culture difference b/w white and blacks I think in this. Kind of like OJ Simpson, kind of like Michael Jackson. Please, give it some time before your cultural bias kicks in and we immediately choose sides based on race.
I'm Asian and I say yeah, they are just some dogs (cock fighting is the national sport in my country!). Michael Vick is not a bad person, a piece of shit, and he is fit for society. Those bold statements are way to slanderous for the alleged crime he has done, but remember he doesn't have any criminal record....EVER.
fresh you lost me at:
"The best athlete in the professional league of football"
He's not even that good of a QB, he scrambles well, that's it.
Wow. So harsh.
So let me say it. Michael Vick is awesome.
The best athlete in the professional league of football.
I'd hate to see him banned from the game.
If anyone has watched Sportscenter recently there was a great debate on Vick and what his future holds. And they got it right.
Everyone who has previously posted holds a cultural bias. Well duh, so do I. But many African Americans don't feel the same way about animals. The debate said many football players said "Man, it's just some dogs, man." That's how I believe too, it's just some dogs.
Michael Vick does not have a criminal record at all, so for everyone to immediately get on the bandwagon saying "this guys is a load of shit" doesn't know anything about him.
There is a huge culture difference b/w white and blacks I think in this. Kind of like OJ Simpson, kind of like Michael Jackson. Please, give it some time before your cultural bias kicks in and we immediately choose sides based on race.
I'm Asian and I say yeah, they are just some dogs (cock fighting is the national sport in my country!). Michael Vick is not a bad person, a piece of shit, and he is fit for society. Those bold statements are way to slanderous for the alleged crime he has done, but remember he doesn't have any criminal record....EVER.
Let me be the first to say "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?" Cultural bias? Like OJ Simpson? So OJ killed his wife and her boyfriend because of cultural bias "Man, they're just people." So MJ molests kids because of cultural bias? "Man they's just some kids, man."
Every sentence, every word, every nuance of your post shows you are more racist than anyone here who claims to be. You're excusing bad behavior because of race.
We automatically assume OJ and MJ are guilty because we're racist? Fuck you.
That was the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. Sorry. It's just true.
You don't watch sportscenter do you, where they frequently praise him as the best athlete in the NFL.
I'm racist? How.
Shawnee it was the stupidest fucking thing you ever heard because of your cultural bias. And no, it's not true. It's your cultural bias telling you it's true. Am I a worse human being for feeling differently about animals?
You take nothing else into account. Do you know how divided those trials with OJ and MJ were based on race?
Fuck you. You don't know a goddam thing about my bias. I didn't even know the fucker was black, I just knew he's an asshole abusive personality. I thought he was a hill person (PC enough for ya?)
The OJ and MJ cases were biased on race? That's why they walked, huh?
You need to shut the fuck up before you call me culturally biased. I'm quite sure you don't know a goddam thing about me and I don't post the stupid shit you do.
You play the race card worse than anyone.
Fucking moron.
Careful Fresh. Shawnee might get worked up.
Let's hear it for due process! Innocent until proven guilty. Rule of law, anyone? Anyone?
I didn't think so.
Careful Fresh. Shawnee might get worked up.
Oh, I don't think that's likely. Of course, I'm hill people what do I know...;)
You can all bite me.
I never said he should be banned. Watching animals tear each other's flesh apart is sick.
So bite me.
Yeah Griff, that's what I meant. Whatever.
Shawnee - I happen to agree with you.
Sorry Shawnee, I was just kidding with you. I happen to think you're right on this.
Let's hear it for due process! Innocent until proven guilty. Rule of law, anyone? Anyone?
I didn't think so.
All that applies to the legal system V, it doesn't mean people can't have an opinion. :rolleyes:
Cultural bias my ass...
Sorry guys. I tip toe around this place so much anymore. Animal cruelty is not something I can tolerate, even if they're "just some dogs, man."
It was a stupid argument.
Don't mean to get pissy with everyone...I guess I'm just used to getting made fun of when I am passionate about something.
Carry on. Pay no attention to the woman behind the curtain.
Even if there is a cultural difference there guess what.. you're a citizen of the United States and enjoy all the privilege that comes with that. So in turn, you are bound to the laws of this country whether you like it or not. Don't like the law?
Do something about it to get it changed or
GTFO.
Personal opinion: anybody who participates in or supports such blatant animal cruelty for sport is a bag of shit. I don't care if you're black, white, orange, green, the Queen of fucking England. It is one thing to raise animals for the pure intention of food for example. It's a whoooole 'nother to use them as pawns in a sick, bloody game that only serves as entertainment for the betting spectators and imparts terrible suffering on the dogs. Is the league in position to take action against him for "alleged" behavior? I don't think so, unless he is proven guilty by court of law. But then again, I don't know what rules and regulations he is bound to by being a member of the league so I can't say for certain the course of action they should take.
To me, this has nothing to do with football, so his football playing time should not be affected. However if the league has rules about off-field behavior, and something like this is included, then sucks for him. He knew what he was doing and thought he could get away with it. If he didn't, someone convinced him that this is legal or he just didn't know, well that's just being an idiot and there's no cure for that yet.
Don't worry about it shawnee, we all got our soft spots. Animals is one of mine as well.
Cultural my ass, this is plain inhumane:
It was a stupid argument.
No it wasn't. You're passionate about this. That is what the Cellar is all about, getting it out there.
You don't watch sportscenter do you, where they frequently praise him as the best athlete in the NFL.
Some of them do and some of them don't. So freakin what. Many of them praise somebody else like Reggie Bush - Vick is nothing near what the make him out to be except on X-Box. He doesn't have the intellect to read and react to a complex defense by finding open receivers; all he does is run around selfishly - he'll (he'd) at best be (have been) another "Slash" or Ricky Williams - all show and no go.
You picked on the wrong people here buddy - I've been around awhile and these are typically the most open minded, honest & forthright you'll find. They may disagree with you and/or your point of view, but they will still listen and treat you with respect. You are wrong on this one - you should admit it and move on.
Wow. So harsh.
"Man, it's just some dogs, man." That's how I believe too, it's just some dogs.
I'm Asian and I say yeah, they are just some dogs (cock fighting is the national sport in my country!). Michael Vick is not a bad person, a piece of shit, and he is fit for society. Those bold statements are way to slanderous for the alleged crime he has done, but remember he doesn't have any criminal record....EVER.
Uh what country is that?? You AND HE are in America buddy - and it is NOT the "national sport" here - and isn't a "sport" anywhere!
Uh what country is that?? You AND HE are in America buddy - and it is NOT the "national sport" here - and isn't a "sport" anywhere!
I'm gonna guess the Philippines or Bali or some such. It's quite popular over there.
You don't watch sportscenter do you, where they frequently praise him as the best athlete in the NFL.
"Hi, have we met?"
Oooohhhh - Thank you - I totally forgot about Ladainian Tomlinson! There are about probably 20 others I'd take before Vick too. He's just a glorified showboat IMO.
I didn't know he was black either until last night. I don't give a shit what you look like: torturing an animal for pleasure - cocks, dogs, pigs, cows, birds, WHATEVER - is sociopathic behavior.
Additionally, it is against the law.
To be federally indicted means they have the evidence to convict. This is not your local De-pu-tee Dawg who took a gander at them dawgs over yonder and thought something *might* be going on. These are Feds, and they don't fuck around. This is a very public figure, and I'm sure they made sure before taking the evidence to the grand jury.
This - in NO way - compares to OJ Simpson. I can't even imagine where that correlation came from.
And he is NOT the athlete of the year, nor has he lived up to expectations. But that's beside the point.
As far as his job is concerned, I can argue that no one should be fired for being indicted on - not convicted of - these charges. However, in certain professions, his extracurricular activities could potentially pose a threat, and a firing would be warranted. i.e. the Disney employee who got busted with child porn. Regardless, unless you're getting fired on the basis of a protected class (race, gender, handicap, etc.), I'm assuming the right-to-work mindset here, and an employer can fire your ass for bad publicity or whatever they want.
And thanks, Bullitt for the graphic images, making me look for my box of tissues...
Sorry for feeling differently than everyone else. But no PETA activists are going to change my view on animals, it is my own.
Yes, I guess in the states it's a crime but like the point mentioned above it has no grounds for banning him from football. That's what this thread is about initially, isn't it?
And about the race card, so sorry I am a minority therefore know nothing about the racism, all the white people know so much more about it. All white people in America have no right to talk about how I deal with race, you all have absolutely no idea about being a minority so I suggest you shut the fuck up because no argument can enlighten anyone on being a minority UNLESS you are a minority.
And if you guys found out stuff about the indictment you'd know that blacks and whites are lining up on opposite sides once again.
I'm sure THEY are! I'm not one of them though - and since you feel the right to tell me to shut the fuck up - why don't you tell me what race I am you punk ass little bitch. Get it right and I'll leave you be.
Sorry smurf!
I just thought it would be valuable to see the consequences of dog fighting. Sometimes we can get too caught up in the semantics, the word games, or debating the topic that the harsh reality is lost on people.
You don't know my heritage, so you just shut the fuck up.
You're way out of your league, here.
Work on your post. The passive-aggressive way you have of starting out anything you know will be controversial ("sorry I feel differently. Sorry I'm a minority") won't get you far. Surely you learned this in freshman comp?
Oh, and not believing God put animals on earth for abuse is a far cry from PETA.
I bet you made a lot of friends today.
I don't give a shit about friends on the cellar. This is an internet forum for discussing with people I will never meet nor plan to. This place does not ruin my day at work if an angry women calls me a fucking moron. There might be plenty of people who probably feel the same way about her here and in real life. Same goes for me, but I'm not gonna get my panties in a bunch about an INTERNET FORUM.
Some black people feel dog fighting is fine. Why? Because that is their culture, raised around rotts and pits for protection in the inner city; opposite from other peoples. Does that make them all inhumane animal torturers? That's for you to decide I guess, since I'm obviously not allowed to make any statements around here.
I'm not going to talk about race anymore because obviously no one thinks I've been through racism at the tender age of 19.
Since I'm such a bad poster here goes:
Vick should not be banned. Dog fighting has nothing to do with football. The NFL should not get involved. If the Falcons want to that is the choice they make for their own interest.
I wouldn't be surprised if when the regular season started MILLIONS of fans wave posters at Falcon games saying "SAVE MICHAEL VICK". I'll be one of them.
Since I'm such a bad poster here
equals: sorry I'm such a bad poster, BUT...(watch the PA, dearie.)
This place does not ruin my day at work if an angry women calls me a fucking moron
Unfortunately, I am only ONE woman. Many a man has wished for multiple copies so there is more to go around. Anyway, what does my gender have to do with anything? Are you sexist. Is it OK to be sexist or racist when it suits you?
Some black people feel dog fighting is fine. Why? Because that is their culture, raised around rotts and pits for protection in the inner city; opposite from other peoples. Does that make them all inhumane animal torturers?
It makes those who feel dog fighting is fine inhumane animal torturers. Quit putting race into this, when you know it is irrelevant.
That's for you to decide I guess, since I'm obviously not allowed to make any statements around here.
= just more Passive-Aggressive debate tactics. You should run for office.
Unfortunately, I am only ONE woman. Many a man has wished for multiple copies so there is more to go around. Anyway, what does my gender have to do with anything? Are you sexist. Is it OK to be sexist or racist when it suits you?
It makes those who feel dog fighting is fine inhumane animal torturers. Quit putting race into this, when you know it is irrelevant.
I never mentioned your sex having anything to do with it. I called you out as being an angry woman. Disagree?
Race is a big thing in this, have you been watching the issue on TV? I hate it when people judge things way before they know anything about it.
:::reads through this thread for the first time:::
Wow! ... that's what I get for ignoring the Sports forum ...
Race is a big thing in this, have you been watching the issue on TV? I hate it when people judge things way before they know anything about it.
Why should anyone have to research what others think about an issue before they chime in with their own opinion?
Race is a big issue in this because people have brought it in. It has no place there.
The basics of it are this: He is being investigated due to the reasonable suspicion that he has been involved with underground dog fighting, which last time I checked is illegal in the United States.
Period.
The civil penalties ride with the court's decision. This being fines, community service, possible jail time even. His penalties in regards to his profession as a pro football player for the NFL are determined by the league, to whom he answers. If they have rules and regulations determining players' behavior off the field, then he ought to have abided by them. If he thinks that certain actions do not fall under such jurisdiction, then he needs to take that up with the league and get rules changed. Whatever the league rules say about off field behavior stands regardless, and he is bound by them by being a pro football player in the NFL.
By being a signed member of an organization such as the NFL, you are bound by their rules and regulations. If you don't like it, get the rules changed or don't be a member.
End.
Of.
Story.
Culture, race, minority have nothing to do with this case. And yes fresh I know what it is like to be a minority even though am white. To say that no white person can comment on what it's like to be a minority is ignorant, sorry. Being a minority is dependent upon your surroundings. I was a minority when I was working in Panama, and yes I did get treated suspiciously and with prejudice by the some of the native Panamanian people I met at random. They counted my money to make sure I didn't short change them, cut me in line, ignored me ought right a few times, and had that "look" on their faces when they looked at me. *Disclaimer* Panama is a wonderful place, do not hesitate to go there if given the opportunity. The culture is nothing like the United States and you feel more than welcomed by 90% of the people you meet.
Fuck cultural differences. I suppose I'm a white-ass racist whitey for saying this, but: FUCK YOU and FUCK your "cultural differences" ...
Even if there is a cultural difference there guess what.. you're a citizen of the United States and enjoy all the privilege that comes with that. So in turn, you are bound to the laws of this country whether you like it or not. Don't like the law? Do something about it to get it changed or GTFO.
torturing an animal for pleasure - cocks, dogs, pigs, cows, birds, WHATEVER - is sociopathic behavior.
pleeeeeze don't torture my cock.
I never mentioned your sex having anything to do with it. I called you out as being an angry woman. Disagree?
I don't - and she has every right to be just like several others here. Funny you attacked the one woman who spoke out against you and no one else. (Pussy)
Race is a big thing in this, have you been watching the issue on TV? I hate it when people judge things way before they know anything about it.
Racism itself IS an issue, but this thread is NOT about that - its about animal cruelty and the repercussions of participating in it.
You may try to twist it into being about race cuz thats a big thing, as I'm sure it is on tv - lemme tell you why -
RACE SELLS They are marketing racism to ignorant, uninformed, apathetic dickheads and you keep sucking it up every time.
I hate it when people judge things way before they know anything about it.
Look who the fuck is talking - Are you serious or just seriously deranged?? Never mind - I know - - - -BOTH.
Everyone who has previously posted holds a cultural bias. Well duh, so do I. But many African Americans don't feel the same way about animals. The debate said many football players said "Man, it's just some dogs, man." That's how I believe too, it's just some dogs.
You're not concerned about the difference between right and wrong, simply what is acceptable in a cultural setting? Okay, fine. You wanna do that across the board? In any era, in any culture, let's even go so far as to say things that are technically legal.
Let's start with a recent example, from American history. Hmmm... things that were legal to do, and that some people saw nothing wrong with, but caused horrible suffering for others. Can you think of anything?
As long as any cultural subset believes that an activity is okay to do, then the activity is excusable? It becomes a non-issue? The ones who disagree simply lack the proper cultural perspective? Man, are you sure about that?
Vick is screwed, he will not be allowed back into the NFL. He has been called out by enough people and I don't think the feds are going to lose in court.
Everyone can say how race isn't an issue but as long as Vick is black, it will be an issue. Since this is action that mostly inner city blacks perform, there is no way of telling of what would happen if Vick was white with the same charges so assuming there is or is not a race issue is about as efficient as proving the supernatural.
Vick is screwed, he will not be allowed back into the NFL. He has been called out by enough people and I don't think the feds are going to lose in court.
Everyone can say how race isn't an issue but as long as Vick is black, it will be an issue. [COLOR=red]Since this is action that mostly inner city blacks perform[/COLOR], there is no way of telling of what would happen if Vick was white with the same charges so assuming there is or is not a race issue is about as efficient as proving the supernatural.
Save Michael Vick.
I guess I'll say what some white people, some black people, some every kind of person might say: "They're just some dogs."
Go ahead argue the legal stuff, but it's not like you (huge generality don't get so damn specific little bitches) don't speed on the road everyday, steal bras from Wal Mart, smoke weed, steal cable, drink and drive or jaywalk occasionally. Michael Vick has a clean record and what I intially said was he should not be banned for what he allegedly did.
I greet haters. This video will tell you why.
[youtube]eUZ03UEyEMU[/youtube]
Keep on hatin'.
P.S. I never attacked Shawnee. She attacked me. I was countering the bad vibes Vick was getting on the previous posts. Scroll back and read before everyone assumes I attacked her.
I won't deny that I speed everyday on the road. I haven't gotten caught. But if I did I would have to pay the penalty fair and square just like anybody else, no matter my criminal record.
He's in the process of getting caught and should pay the penalty according to the law and whatever rules apply within the NFL. Simple as that.
I thought you were Asian fresh? Not a "nigga that's gettin hated on".
Bullitt yes I'm Asian....and? Your point? I'm gettin' hated on, and I embrace it. So that clip only applies to black people? No, it applies to everyone. And hating is what keeps me in my place. Katt Williams tells it how it is. yesman especially is a new hater of me and I've never said a word of slander back to him. Keep on puttin' me down and I keep on getting back up.
Bullitt you have no haters? I'm sure you do (no offense) but they are good for you.
Fuck cultural differences. I suppose I'm a white-ass racist whitey for saying this, but: FUCK YOU and FUCK your "cultural differences" ...
Ah, a true gentleman. This is the kind of person that I would like to see less of in our melting pot country.
Bullitt yes I'm Asian....and? Your point? I'm gettin' hated on, and I embrace it. So that clip only applies to black people? No, it applies to everyone. And hating is what keeps me in my place. Katt Williams tells it how it is. yesman especially is a new hater of me and I've never said a word of slander back to him. Keep on puttin' me down and I keep on getting back up.
Bullitt you have no haters? I'm sure you do (no offense) but they are good for you.
My joking sarcasm doesn't come through well on message boards it seems..
The weird thing is I still like Shawnee. Sure she called me a fucking moron and said I say the stupidest shit ever but I don't hold her against it. I get the feeling she can become very emotional, I was here for her brawl with zippy and wolf. It's all whatever to me, honestly.
So we differ on opinions on animals--so what.
yesman, his out of nowhere attacks on someone who has never read one of his posts until today---that is a different thing. But still, it's all whatever. This is an internet forum. Discuss the things you want to discuss, that's all.
Is your idea of "cultural differences" that we should always, automatically define people by the differences between them? Fuck that. We're all human. Do you think people should be excused from things that aren't acceptable in society because of their skin color? Fuck that. Fuck that, and fuck you if you feel that way. You deserve to be cussed out if you feel that way. Not because anyone "hates" you, but because you're wildly wrong.
You don't watch sportscenter do you, where they frequently praise him as the best athlete in the NFL.
It's true, I don't. But more to the point: I don't care. Even though you just told me about it, I still don't care. I've never heard of him before today.
yesman especially is a new hater of me and I've never said a word of slander back to him.
yesman, his out of nowhere attacks on someone who has never read one of his posts until today---that is a different thing. But still, it's all whatever. This is an internet forum. Discuss the things you want to discuss, that's all.
1) How would I know whether you read any of my posts?
2) Who cares and why is that pertinent in ANY way?
3) I NEVER said I hated you - I actually know what that word means. Furthermore, I have very little hate in me. Hate has very little value in my life and is a negative soul destructing force reserved only for a very select few. I don't value you enough to hate you. Remember its just "an internet forum full of people you will never nor plan to meet." as you so aptly put it.
As far as attacking you - I attacked your position very strongly, yes, and I defended and supported my perspective and someone whose point of view I have learned to value & respect. Besides that, I agree with Shawnee. Many people gave their opinions as did you, yet you chose to attack her and ignore the rest of us. That just shows your cowardice and lack of respect.
You tried to turn the issue into a racial one where it did not apply at all. If it was my lifelong hero who had done it, I would still feel the same way, in fact probably worse. The fact that it was another spoiled rich athelete had NO bearing on the issue. This is about a human allegedly committing heinous acts of cruelty upon animals - PERIOD.
For you, you 19 yr old twisted little fuck, I have NO RESPECT, nor do you deserve any. Thats MY OPINION nothing more nothing less.
Yesman you didn't read the thread correctly. Shawnee attacked me first. And if you read the posts that til the very end of the exchange did I say anything directly to her, it was all about the content of the idea. You need to be more observant. Do I need to quote it?
Jesus Christ. Ignore me please, if you have no respect for me ignore me. Do it, you cunt. Ignore me, I beg you. Ignore me. I'm not even a human to you, so why are you wasting your time jabbering. Fucking ignore me you cunt. That's why it's the option is here. Your life will be better. Mine will be tons.
I bet you didn't even watch the video I posted about haters. Whatever, just don't even respond ok, please. I'm a freaking island monkey who doesn't deserve respect blah blah blah block me please. I don't know why people get so freaking riled up over other people's opinions. It's an internet forum, people will think differently from you, it doesn't revolve around your own personal values about everything. I don't go out of my way telling people my values are right and everyone elses' is wrong but apparently you cannot live with the fact that I have an opinion different from you. So please, block me. Oh yeah, and go get a life. It's pretty sad when my one opinion can cause you to automatically disapprove of everything about me, shows how shallow of a person you really are. I don't give a shit about you, you're life, how you feel about me, what happens to anyone associated with you, how you feel about animals, your affection for Shawnee I don't give a shit about any of it. So stop trying to make me feel so hated because I know I am but that doesn't affect me. I actually don't give a shit. You haven't watched the video at all. Whatever yesman, you should change your name to whateverman cause that's how I feel about you. Fucking cunt. No load of insults thrown at me or telling me how I'm the scum of the earth is going to change my opinion on this. So go gang up on someone else you insult whore. It takes a lot to make me actually call people names recently but you have done it.
I don't give a shit about you or anything that has to do with you. So block me please so you won't have to care.
It's true, I don't. But more to the point: I don't care. Even though you just told me about it, I still don't care. I've never heard of him before today.
I was responding to Rexmons saying he was a mediocre quarterback. And people say
I don't listen....
Just some fucking dogs?
Well...I'm now officially speechless. Wait. No I'm not.
Fuckers beat otherwise healthy animals to death because they weren't good enough fighters. Those dudes *are* the animals.
If animal abuse is an acceptable cultural expression, then I guess we probably not be upset the next time some gang of suicidal psychopaths fly a plane into a building. After all, it is a valid cultural expression, and who are we to take umbrage?
Hey, what the fuck? Why have rules at all?
Anarchy, anyone?
I don't know why people get so freaking riled up over other people's opinions. It's an internet forum, people will think differently from you
Fresh, you answered your question.
Guess what... professional sports players are not heroes, and it's about time people woke up to that fact. They play games for money to entertain people... they are entertainers, that's all. Entertainers, not heroes.
If these people are truly doing this because of culture you can’t say they are animals because, even though I highly doubt it, they could be saints in all other aspects of life but just think this practice is OK like Fresh does. Culture is just perspective. If they are violent in other aspects of life and use culture as an excuse, then animal is a very good term.
For the record, I think dog fighting should be and remain illegalized because even though their culture allows it, it shouldn’t make it “fine” in our eyes. They are deliberately hurting animals and I personally think that it should be outlawed since I believe, as hypocritical as I am right now, animals that are closely related to use should be treated well and not tortured.
Fresh, just to help you out in the future, calling someone out for racism then later use a highly sexist word (cunt) doesn’t help you out at all.
Just a word I've been learning from my fellow dwellars.
And I never called anyone out on racism, I said race was a definite factor in the issue. Read between the lines.
Race is a big thing in this, have you been watching the issue on TV?
Why should anyone have to research what others think about an issue before they chime in with their own opinion?
As appaling as your callous attitude towards animal cruelty is, it is perhaps even worse that your
[SIZE="3"]TV[/SIZE] told you what to think about this issue, and you believed it. Apparently, you got worked up about race because of flashy, sensationalistic journalism. You've been "played" by the media.
I bet you didn't even watch the video I posted about haters.
That video doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It's fucking stupid. If you think that video "says something" then you must be fucking stupid.
So far, you've regurgitated an opinion you heard on TV, and you've rebutted with a video of a comedian. Don't you have any opinions of your own?
...but it's not like you...don't...steal bras from Wal Mart...
I don't steal bras from Wal Mart. Show of hands: does anybody here steal bras from Wal Mart?
Go ahead argue the legal stuff, but it's not like you (huge generality don't get so damn specific little bitches) don't speed on the road everyday, steal bras from Wal Mart, smoke weed, steal cable, drink and drive or jaywalk occasionally. Michael Vick has a clean record and what I intially said was he should not be banned for what he allegedly did.
Ok Flint? They were examples you dolt. And I already told you my opinions. But you all just didn't like them.
Well duh, so do I. But many African Americans don't feel the same way about animals.
[quote] I'm Asian and I say yeah, they are just some dogs (cock fighting is the national sport in my country!). Michael Vick is not a bad person, a piece of shit, and he is fit for society.
[/quote]Ok, I'm speechless.:eek3:
Yesman you didn't read the thread correctly. Shawnee attacked me first.
No, she attacked your opinion.
Ignore me please ~snip~ Ignore me, I beg you. Ignore me. ~snip~ Fucking ignore me you cunt. That's why it's the option is here. Your life will be better. Mine will be tons.
Whatever, just don't even respond ok, please. blah blah blah block me please. ~snip~ So block me please so you won't have to care.
I wouldn't give you the satisfaction nor the opportunity to post your HATE without a rebuttle.
Ok, I'm speechless.:eek3:
Everyone who has previously posted holds a cultural bias. Well duh, so do I. But many African Americans don't feel the same way about animals.
No, she attacked your opinion.
Every sentence, every word, every nuance of your post shows you are more racist than anyone here who claims to be. You're excusing bad behavior because of race.
We automatically assume OJ and MJ are guilty because we're racist? Fuck you.
That was the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. Sorry. It's just true.
Compensation, she attacked me and my opinion.
Ok Flint? They were examples you dolt.
They were examples of things that are morally equivalent to animal cruelty? Yeah, I'm the dolt here. Jackass.
Byrd on Michael Vick: Going to Hell
In a floor speech Thursday, Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D-W. Va.) lashed out, indirectly, at Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, who was recently charged with running a dog-fighting ring in Virginia
"It is a brutal, sadistic event motivated by barbarism of the worst sort and cruelty of the worst, worst, worst, sadistic kind," Byrd said in a 24-minute address on the matter. "One is left wondering: Who are the real animals? Who are the real animals, who are the real animals -- the creatures inside the ring or the creatures outside the ring?"
By the way - anyone know what happened to this????
Woman claims star NFL quarterback passed along herpes in 2003
APRIL 5--Claiming that Michael Vick gave her herpes, a Georgia woman is suing the star NFL quarterback for negligence and battery. According to the below lawsuit, Sonya Elliot, a 26-year-old health care worker, was infected with the sexually transmitted disease in April 2003 after an unprotected encounter with Vick at the athlete's Duluth, Georgia home. Elliott alleges that after testing positive for Herpes Simplex 2, she confronted the Atlanta Falcons star, 24, about her condition. "I've got something to tell you. I've got it," Vick admitted to her, according to Elliott's State Court complaint, which alleges that Vick then told her that "he had not known how to tell her about his condition, and that it was not something that he liked to talk about." Elliott's complaint also contends that Vick "apologized profusely" for not telling her he was infected with the STD. Elliot's lawsuit alleges that Vick has used the name "Ron Mexico" and, in a related court filing, her lawyers are seeking Vick's admission that he used the "Mexico" alias--and perhaps other fake names--"for the purpose of herpes testing and/or treatment."
Byrd on Michael Vick: Going to Hell
In a floor speech Thursday, Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D-W. Va.) lashed out, indirectly, at Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, who was recently charged with running a dog-fighting ring in Virginia
"It is a brutal, sadistic event motivated by barbarism of the worst sort and cruelty of the worst, worst, worst, sadistic kind," Byrd said in a 24-minute address on the matter. "One is left wondering: Who are the real animals? Who are the real animals, who are the real animals -- the creatures inside the ring or the creatures outside the ring?"
Oh my...Robert Byrd and I agree on something? Quick, sometime call the time and temperature number in Hell.
Could this whole "argument" be settled with a "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" I know they are "just dogs", but . . . ? ? ?
Someone said it was a cultural thing. By that asinine statement and according to rumors, history. It was a cultural thing to lynch blacks in the south. By that line of thinking, do I need to buy rope? Hell! It's a cultural thing. Race card time again.
Having herpes is a non-issue.
The color of his skin is also, unless you are a racist.
As far as his job is concerned, I can argue that no one should be fired for being indicted on - not convicted of - these charges. However, in certain professions, his extracurricular activities could potentially pose a threat, and a firing would be warranted. i.e. the Disney employee who got busted with child porn.
Right, Disney employees work with kids, football players do not work with dogs. Even if he is shown to be guilty, and he has not been, he does not work with dogs.
If he gets fired it would be well within his right to sue.
I have issues with employers fucking with people over what they do with their private lives.
His job is to win football games, that is all.
Maintaining the image of the NFL is in his contract, and therefore part of his job. Anyone can sue for anything, but he would lose.
His job is to win football games, that is all.
Then he still should be fired -
he does not work with dogs.
I see the point you're trying to make, but I think you're missing one as well: this has more to do with image and reputation as it relates to the employer, not whether or not Vick works with dogs.
The NFL has made a huge campaign about the image of its players, and thus the respectability of the NFL and the game. If the NFL's idea of maintaining an image requires players to be not felons, stoners, abusers, whatever, and the NFL believes - and can prove - that the image of the league, teams, and/or players would suffer or even be tarnished by the actions of a singular individual within the sport, they may very well be within their right to fire him for a conviction, or even on suspicion of these charges.
Image and reputation are the hardest things to attain and maintain, and even harder to get back once tarnished.
excellent points smurf - not sure about the legality of it all, but I agree in theory. Too bad it will all come down to whether they will lose more money by keepng or firing him. They will most likely play the middle ground and offer up some type of suspension.
It's basic contract law, not necessarily my opinion. (For the record, I believe he's guilty, and I believe he's a sick fuck, and I'd love to have a chance to cattle-prod his balls.)
Vick signed a contract. If the contract stipulates he must refrain certain activities, and maybe (definitely) includes a catch-all phrase that would cover all the bases in the event the 'certain activities' are not set out specifically (i.e. must test negative for steroids, weed, opiates, etc.) that leaves it up to the interpretation of a jury should he attempt to sue in the event he is fired as to whether or not his extracurricular activities did, in fact, have negative repercussions on his employer.
And, also, I don't how much employment law would really apply here as far as his "rights" with his "employer" - he's under a contract and the contract, as long as it isn't deemed illegal or that any party signed under duress, would supersede over employment law.
Fresh, while I have not responded personally to anything you have said in the past and don't know if I will respond to anything in the future, depends on what topic is being discussed - I like Football, I grew up in a household where it was watched regularly. However, the way I am interpreting your statement you are suggesting that “race is an issue”, what about this little article from “CLASSIC ESPN”; now this guy didn’t do dog fighting; he did “women” fighting. He’s white, or would you presume to tell me that “culturally” white guys, not black mostly beat women. While this is a somewhat different circumstance, it still doesn’t make it right.
Gastineau, King of Sack
By Mike Puma
Special to ESPN.com
Except;
Mark Gastineau turned self-promotion into an art form with his dance ritual that accompanied quarterback sacks in the early 1980s. His antics played a large part in the NFL making such celebrations illegal in March 1984.
But that didn't stop the New York Jets defensive end, who helped revolutionize the position with his blazing speed. In 1984, Gastineau recorded 22 sacks, an NFL record that stood for 17 years until Michael Strahan broke it in 2001.
The 6-foot-5, 275-pound Gastineau made the Pro Bowl five straight seasons (1981-85) and finished his 10-year career with 107½ sacks, a Jets record that won't be broken anytime soon. He was the most high-profile member of the "New York Sack Exchange," a title given to the Jets' fearsome defensive front that was composed of Gastineau, Joe Klecko, Marty Lyons and Abdul Salaam. The foursome combined for 54½ sacks in 1981.
Off the field, Gastineau was no saint. He used anabolic steroids while playing for the Jets and was convicted for drug possession in 1993. He has a history of domestic violence against women. He served 11 months on Rikers Island for violating probation after assaulting a girlfriend who became his second wife.
In 1988, while still married to his first wife Lisa, Gastineau announced his engagement to actress Brigitte Nielsen, with whom he later fathered a son. But the couple split amongst hushed talk that Gastineau physically abused her. Gastineau later attributed his problems with women to his abuse of steroids.
The thing is, almost every sport has problems. It's getting worse. There doesn't seem to be anyway to "make it better". Decisions are needing to be made. What to do with players who "choose" to make wrong decisions.
Just wanted to add one more note - while he didn't get "dismissed" from the team - I do believe that what was done and the things that have happened since - are showing the commissioners that they need to get "some type" of control over their players. It does make the sport look bad - they are representatives of their teams. An animal can't choose to not "get in the ring". I know let's put him in with the dog and we'll see who wins.
The thing is...everyone keeps saying for him to fight the dog....That's even worse and part hypocritical. Worrying about "inhumane" acts but then you go and do one over and put and jeopardize a human being? So it's not ok for dogs to duke it out, but for a dog to attempt to tear apart another human being, that is reconciled?
Look I don't want to get into this again but I put human interests far ahead of animal interests and I would hate to see a fellow human being injured because of a dog. That would make me want to put that dog down. Just my opinion, you know, humanity over the animal kingdom. Sorry.
I bet you didn't even watch the video I posted about haters.
If it's so important to you that people get your message, don't post a video. I'm sure that I'm not the only person here who is at work and can't exactly play a video, especially one that apparently includes offensive language.
I'm not sure exactly where you get the idea that views on animals are so clear-cut between races. I live in a majority-black city and have met plenty of black people who love their pets, and plenty of white people who laugh at cruelty to animals. Here in DC we even have plenty of black vegans and vegetarians. For instance, the African-American lady who lives across the hall from me has a cat whom she'd clearly do anything for.
I'm sure that there are plenty of people (of all races) who will stand up for Vick because they like to see African-Americans succeeding publicly and don't want to see another black celebrity disgraced. A lot of people of all races felt the same way about OJ Simpson. That doesn't mean that murder isn't seen as a bad thing in the black community, just that people don't want to believe that someone who was thought of as a role model for black children could be a murderer.
And for the record, I am a big football fan and I do watch SportsCenter, and I have no idea where you're getting the idea that Vick is the best player in the league. That explains why Atlanta did so well in the playoffs, right? :rolleyes:
Ah thanks wolf, I'm Jojo Georgia.
That is overly cute!
One of my male coworkers is "Stark Iran."
He won't answer to anything else now.
They're not all on the other side of the door.
I see the point you're trying to make, but I think you're missing one as well: this has more to do with image and reputation as it relates to the employer, not whether or not Vick works with dogs.
The NFL has made a huge campaign about the image of its players, and thus the respectability of the NFL and the game. If the NFL's idea of maintaining an image requires players to be not felons, stoners, abusers, whatever, and the NFL believes - and can prove - that the image of the league, teams, and/or players would suffer or even be tarnished by the actions of a singular individual within the sport, they may very well be within their right to fire him for a conviction, or even on suspicion of these charges.
Image and reputation are the hardest things to attain and maintain, and even harder to get back once tarnished.
LOL!!! So, you suggest that the NFL fire all felons and those found using drugs, illegal substances (so funny!), and prostitutes in any way?
The "image" of the NFL is a group of companies that sponsor and play a sport, reading more into it is just confusing and I have, nowhere, seen any evidence, to support any other fact.
Please show me where it is more than just that.
"Football player"... pretty sure that is their title, right?
As for his contract... has he been found guilty of fighting the dogs?
LOL!!! So, you suggest that the NFL fire all felons and those found using drugs, illegal substances (so funny!), and prostitutes in any way
:confused: Ummm, no, I didn't suggest that at all. I don't think I gave my opinion on what football players should be suspended for at all. Maybe it's that silly disappearing/reappearing font. :rolleyes: :lol:
If the NFL's idea of maintaining an image requires players to be not felons, [etc.]... and the NFL believes... that the image of the league... would suffer... they may very well be within their right to fire him...
I was speaking of the
legality of a contract, not the type of employment ("football player") involved in this case. A contract can set forth any stipulation the employer wants, as long as it's legal. As a potential employee, you have the right to sign the contract - or not, and thus be bound to the contract - or not.
Legally speaking, if you agree to the terms of the contract and sign it, you are bound by the contract terms. It is a
fact that Vick is under contract with the NFL. It is a
fact that the contract stipulates certain behaviors will result in suspension, fines, and/or expulsion from the league. It is a
fact that the NFL is
legally allowed to exercise - and in fact is choosing to exercise - its rights under the contract that Vick signed.
It seems to me that you disagree that the NFL should be allowed to stipulate such things in its contracts. If that is the case, then I might agree with you to some extent. But still - the
fact remains, Vick agreed to the terms of his contract.
As for his contract... has he been found guilty of fighting the dogs?
No. I don't believe any literate individual with an IQ above 65 and access to newsmedia believes Vick has been convicted yet since he was just indicted.
Regardless of whether or not
you think image is an issue, or
I think it's an issue, or anyone else thinks it's an issue, the NFL has made it pretty clear that it
is an issue with the league - or else they wouldn't have suspended him for being charged (not convicted) of these crimes.
Just find the biggest, meanest dog in the country and have Vick fight it.... winner take all.
Some black people feel dog fighting is fine. Why? Because that is their culture, raised around rotts and pits for protection in the inner city; opposite from other peoples. Does that make them all inhumane animal torturers?
I seriously doubt that being black has anything to do with it. There are dogfighting rings in the UK and, as far as I know, it tends to be white, working class men who are involved. My guess is, the unifying 'culture' is socio-economic in nature, rather than race. In areas of high deprivation, crime and violence, fierce dogs are desirable. In a climate of economic and social uncertainty, where violence and fear are a common part of life, some people become emotionally calloused.
Fresh, you mentioned cock-fighting in your country of origin: I don't believe this is the same. What you are describing is a sport which has been in continuous existence for hundreds, even thousands, of years. I personally think it is an appalling sport, but I can see the 'cultural difference' argument too. WHat we've been discussing in this thread, however, is not a continuation of something. Dog-fighting is something that has been around for long time, but has been considered culturally unacceptable in the West for many years.
WHat we've been discussing in this thread, however, is not a continuation of something. Dog-fighting is something that has been around for long time, but has been considered culturally unacceptable in the West for many years.
I liked your post. But prostitution, gambling, adultery, indecent exposure are all culturally unacceptable in the West for many years too, right?
I liked your post. But prostitution, gambling, adultery, indecent exposure are all culturally unacceptable in the West for many years too, right?
Your point being?
But prostitution, gambling, adultery, indecent exposure are all culturally unacceptable in the West for many years too, right?
All of those "activities" involve humans only (except in Bruces case,j/k) Dog fighting is comlpletely different having no comparison to them.
All of those "activities" involve humans only (except in Bruces case,j/k) Dog fighting is comlpletely different having no comparison to them.
Do you eat meat, wear leather?
No. I don't believe any literate individual with an IQ above 65 and access to newsmedia believes Vick has been convicted yet since he was just indicted.
Regardless of whether or not you think image is an issue, or I think it's an issue, or anyone else thinks it's an issue, the NFL has made it pretty clear that it is an issue with the league - or else they wouldn't have suspended him for being charged (not convicted) of these crimes.
I think people who make assumptions without facts are idiots and should be ignored and/or treated as such, no matter how many of them their are.
I will bet you a golden football if he is acquitted he will get his old job back and that is as it should be.
Do you eat meat, wear leather?
Thats a long stretch -
I eat meat & no I don't wear leather. I don't eat veal though. Does that count for anything?
I think my IQ dropped a point or four for just having read your post, rkzenrage.
People who ignore the facts are even bigger idiots.
How about posting a real argument rather than this nanny-nanny-boo-boo-you-don't-know-the-facts bullshit with nothing to support yours.
Please tell me smurf, what are the facts? The proven, known, facts in the Vic case, to date?
Also, I am not a believer that all aspects of one's life affects all other aspects of their life. Some things are none of your damn business.
Thats a long stretch -
I eat meat & no I don't wear leather. I don't eat veal though. Does that count for anything?
Ever been to a slaughterhouse? I have.
Don't talk to me about "torture". It is cultural.
I don't like animal fights, but I KNOW I'm a hypocrite, do you?
Well, since literacy doesn't appear to be your strong suit, maybe you should go look for your baseball.
Exactly the kind of answer I was expecting.
Emotional and lacking any value what-so-ever, again.
Thanks for proving my point, again.
Right... *I'm* the one who can't follow a thread... *I'm* the one putting words in other people's mouths... *I'm* the one with nothing more intelligent to say other than "fuck you", "you're a cunt", "idiot", or brag about how educated I am.
You're aggressive and bitter and miserable, I assume this from my personal experience with your shitty attitude and lack of ability to contribute intelligently to a conversation without personally attacking people because you apparently have nothing better going on up there. Good for you. :headshake
I never wrote "fuck you", "you're a cunt" or bragged about how educated I am once.
I have used the word idiot in it's many wondrous forms.
I don't contribute to the forum?
Let's do a search on the threads you have started and mine and compare shall we? LOL!
You are still avoiding the topic & still emotionally lashing out... sad... but fun, keep it up.
I never said you did. I'm just classifying you with the rest of the people with nothing more intelligent to say other than "fuck you", etc. so I can discriminate against you for it.
Wow your momma must be so proud of you. She taught you well, I see.
Nope, not to this one. At least, not intelligently. Shit, even freshness has you beat with an effort.
Since I'm new around these parts, I wouldn't have started numerous threads, now would I?
Why are you hung up on this emotion thing? I'm certainly not emotional about you, but if you want to ahead and think I am, you go right ahead. I'm flattered.
Ok, you're not emotional... these posts have been...um... what?
Edit:
No, wait, I got it... SATIRE! LOL!!!!
Ever been to a slaughterhouse? I have.
Don't talk to me about "torture". It is cultural.
I don't like animal fights, but I KNOW I'm a hypocrite, do you?
Yes I went to one once - does that have any bearing on the situation with dogfighting? Not to me. A slaughterhouse is designed to provide food. Dogfighting...??? As I said a long stretch - :headshake
why hasnt anyone just assassinated the prick yet. i would volunteer but i am alas, too far away.
"release the hounds" i say
[youtube]Wk22ENaRCkI[/youtube]
I so wish I had sound at work - it still looks funny though.
Dude, that clip is a great find rk.
why hasnt anyone just assassinated the prick yet. i would volunteer but i am alas, too far away.
"release the hounds" i say
Of course, why wait to find out if he's guilty!? :right:
Yes I went to one once - does that have any bearing on the situation with dogfighting? Not to me. A slaughterhouse is designed to provide food. Dogfighting...??? As I said a long stretch - :headshake
I see,
why the animal suffers matters. If that works for you, cool.
For me, six of one, half-a-dozen of the other. The end is the same, so it is the same.
I don't like either.
Dog racing, bullfighting, horse racing, this, cock-fighting (still legal in some places in the US), the way we raise chickens, pigs and run our slaughter houses... all the same.
Vic is just us exercising our collective guilt.... IF he is guilty, that is.
To date, he is NOT.
Fresh, you mentioned cock-fighting in your country of origin: I don't believe this is the same. What you are describing is a sport which has been in continuous existence for hundreds, even thousands, of years. I personally think it is an appalling sport, but I can see the 'cultural difference' argument too. WHat we've been discussing in this thread, however, is not a continuation of something. Dog-fighting is something that has been around for long time, but has been considered culturally unacceptable in the West for many years.
So, cockfighting is okay because it's "cultural" (and chickens, incidentally, aren't terribly personable), but dogfighting, which likely has a longer history and cultural ties is not?
Vick 'one of the heavyweights' in dogfighting
"He's a pit bull fighter," the source said of Vick. "He's one of the ones that they call 'the big boys': that's who bets a large dollar. And they have the money to bet large money. As I'm talking about large money -- $30,000 to $40,000 -- even higher. He's one of the heavyweights."
And from another ESPN article
Poindexter told The Associated Press Wednesday he still doesn't have solid evidence linking Vick to dogfighting. He said there are no eyewitnesses who say they saw dogfighting at the home where 66 dogs were seized along with equipment that could be associated with dog fighting. The discoveries were made during a drug raid at the home on April 25.
Police also found items associated with dog fighting, including treadmills and a "pry bar'' used to pry apart a dog's jaws. Poindexter has said they also found a bloodied carpet and blood splatters on the floor in a room over the garage.
Vick, a native of Newport News who starred at Virginia Tech, is a registered dog breeder. He said he let a cousin, Davon Boddie, live at the house, and that he didn't know a large kennel on the property could be involved in criminal activity.
The discoveries were made during a drug raid at the home on April 25.
Wait, what?
Did they find any drugs?
I am a vegetarian and believe in animal rights, but even accepting the argument that animal rights are a cultural construct and that we shouldn't expect others to share that idea, raising dangerous dogs and training them to kill without any license or permit and contrary to zoning regulations is a great way to get people hurt or killed, too. What if one of the dogs had gotten loose?
Then ther would have been a few missing children and Bush would be getting the blame.
raising dangerous dogs and training them to kill without any license or permit and contrary to zoning regulations is a great way to get people hurt or killed, too.
Vick is a licensed dog breeder in VA.
So, cockfighting is okay because it's "cultural" (and chickens, incidentally, aren't terribly personable), but dogfighting, which likely has a longer history and cultural ties is not?
I don't like either.
That confuse you did it?
I am a vegetarian and believe in animal rights, but even accepting the argument that animal rights are a cultural construct and that we shouldn't expect others to share that idea, raising dangerous dogs and training them to kill without any license or permit and contrary to zoning regulations is a great way to get people hurt or killed, too. What if one of the dogs had gotten loose?
I'd like to see your opinion on raising rodeo bulls based on this. :rolleyes:
Now I've heard everything.
I just heard this on the radio. A prison inmate is claiming, "Michael Vick stole my pitbulls, sold them on ebay and used the proceeds to buy missiles from Iran."
Is he suing? That would just about cover it.
Richmond, Va. — Facing the possibility of a new indictment, which includes racketeering charges, Falcons quarterback Michael Vick will most likely join his three co-defendants and agree this week to a plea deal with prosecutors in his federal dogfighting case, according to two people with knowledge of the case.
Vick has not made a final decision, because he wants to hear from the NFL what a guilty plea would do to his football career.
"It is a very good chance he will plead guilty," said one of the people who spoke on condition of anonymity. "He definitely wants to play football again. His love is for football. And he would love to play for the Falcons again. But first and foremost is to get back on the field."
Apparently one of Vick's bros has turned state's evidence and the other two will jump on the bandwagon this morning.
Speculation is Vick will plea bargain and go down for at least a year.
Yeah, I heard this morning that he was worried about how long he would be out of football - the commentators suggested that his focus be more on how long he would be in jail. 3-5 years with a plea down to 1 year and less actually served for good behavior.
The NFL has made it clear that a decision as to Mike Vick's punishment for violation of league policies won't be made until after he pleads guilty to pending charges, if he indeed pleads guilty.
But to the extent that Vick or anyone else thinks that a suspension will be served while he is in prison, we don't think it should be that simple or easy for him.
In order to make the suspension have the intended deterrent effect on other players, the suspension should not begin until after Vick is released from custody.
Commissioner Roger Goodell has broad discretion in determining Vick's punishment. Under the Personal Conduct Policy, Goodell has sole authority to fashion the penalty, and he likewise is the person who will review the decision on appeal.
If Vick pleads guilty, he likely won't be sentenced until November or December. If his jail term starts in January 2008, he'll be unavailable for the entire 2008 season. If Goodell imposes a one-year suspension that begins after Vick is released, Vick will be knocked out for the 2009 campaign.
Though we don't think that Vick will get a lifetime ban from Goodell, we think that it will be for at least two years -- one year for dog fighting, and one year for gambling. If the suspensions start after he gets out of jail, he won't be eligible to be back on the field until 2011, when he'll be 31 years old.
Even then, we're not sure anyone will sign him -- and we have a feeling that the NFL owners will be urged by the powers-that-be never to bring Vick back to the league, since to do so would provide a constant reminder of one of the most troubling player misconduct episodes in NFL history.
(emphasis mine)
Per published reports, Mike Vick has until 9:00 a.m. EDT to accept a deal that would entail pleading guilty to pending conspiracy charges in exchange for a recommendation by prosecutors of a 12-18 month jail term...
If Vick doesn't take the deal, he most likely will be indicted on more charges next week. There still has been no mention (that we've seen) as to whether a guilty plea on federal charges will include a commitment that he won't be prosecuted in Virginia for dog fighting, animal cruelty, or gambling.
PHILLIPS, PEACE ADMIT TO KILLING DOGS WITH VICK
In a statement of facts signed in connection with the guilty pleas entered on Friday morning by Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips, Peace and Phillips admit to participating with Vick in the killing of eight dogs in April 2007, according to ESPN.
In our view, this means that Virginia authorities now have the green light to proceed with an indictment of Vick on eight counts of animal cruelty. Under Virginia law, he'd face up to 40 years behind bars, in addition to any federal prison term that he serves.
The alleged involvement in killing dogs is, in our view, proof positive that Vick will never be able to return to the NFL.
ESPN also reports that Phillips immediately was taken into custody because he failed a drug test while free on bond.
From the New York Times Published: August 18, 2007
Goodell has broad powers to determine the nature of Vick’s punishment, including when it would begin. If Vick is sentenced to prison, Goodell could start a possible suspension when Vick begins his criminal sentence or after his incarceration ends. The implication for the 27-year-old Vick’s career is clear: The combination of a prison sentence and a suspension by the league could make his return to the N.F.L. a long shot.
Of particular interest to the league is whether Vick admits to gambling in a plea agreement. Depending on the nature of the charges, that alone could spell the end of Vick’s career.
Put a fork in him - He's done, as he should be.
dont draft him on your
fantasy league!
I'd like to see your opinion on raising rodeo bulls based on this. :rolleyes:
I said that I'm a vegetarian and believe in animal rights. Of course I'm opposed to rodeos.
What's next for Michael Vick after agreeing to plea?
[SIZE="2"][Posted: Monday August 20, 2007 5:54PM; Updated: Monday August 20, 2007 7:28PM[/SIZE]
SI.com: Michael Vick has accepted a deal. What is he looking at in terms of jail time?
Dohrmann: Details of the plea agreement won't be made public until next Monday, although it is possible information will leak out before then. Earlier reports said prosecutors were seeking 18-36 months and Vick's legal team was hoping for a year or less.
SI.com: Why did Vick take the deal?
Dohrmann: When co-defendants Quanis Phillips, Purnell Peace, and Tony Taylor pled guilty to federal dogfighting conspiracy changes and agreed to testify against Vick, that made it seven witnesses for the government who could say Vick participated in dogfighting. Peace and Phillips could describe how Vick executed dogs as recently as last spring. Also, the government was preparing a superseding indictment that would have included racketeering charges against Vick, which carry a tougher penalty than the dogfighting charges.
SI.com: Could the judge impose a stiffer sentence?
Dohrmann: Usually judges stick to the guidelines, although the judge in Vick's case -- judge Henry Hudson -- let it be known at the plea hearing for Peace and Phillips last Friday that he could sentence them to five years in prison and they couldn't then get out of their pleas (or appeal). If Vick agrees to plead guilty to the same single charge as his friends (federal dogfighting conspiracy), he faces the same quandary. He might get the sentence his lawyers negotiated with prosecutors or he might get more. Hudson won't make the final decision until the sentencing hearing, the date of which we won't know until Monday...
jail time! shit! least of that man's worries now. how about the "condemnation" by the league and what that means for the future of this "star"?
"We are aware of Michael Vick's decision to enter a guilty plea to the federal charges against him and accept responsibility for his conduct. We totally condemn the conduct outlined in the charges, which is inconsistent with what Michael Vick previously told both our office and the Falcons. We will conclude our own review under the league’s personal conduct policy as soon as possible. In the meantime, we have asked the Falcons to continue to refrain from taking action pending a decision by the commissioner."
how about his immediate career?
Our guess? He'll be suspended for at least one year for dog fighting, and at least one year for gambling. Also, we think that any suspension will be tolled during his incarceration.
how about that roughly $28 mil he may be on the hook for?
Though many will expect owner Arthur Blank to cut him as soon as Commissioner Roger Goodell allows the team to proceed, the Falcons need to wait until Vick defaults on his contract so that the team can recover, as we calculate it, more than $28 million in paid bonus money. The broader question is whether the Falcons must carry Vick on the roster during the term of his suspension in order to collect all of the $28 million, since the bonus money applies to future years of the contract that have not yet been served.
Too much money + Too little sense = Dogfighting indictment
Unfortunately, it's not uncommon for these "heroes", these sports "stars", to feel they are above the law... untouchables.
S-not lookin' good for tha' dude.
It's not looking good because he's a lying, sociopathic piece of shit. It hasn't "looked good" for him since he was suspected of it in the first place. Suspicions, indictments, etc. are brought on by some form of evidence or fact, if you will.
I feel good. Now I know there really IS a DOG! Praise!
I was tryin to see if there was any news on the plea deal with him and found his
Wiki info had some past allegations of dog fighting.
Personal
2001-2007: Minor controversies, troubles, and incidents
Between his selection by the Atlanta Falcons in the 2001 NFL Draft and early 2007, Vick was involved in number of smaller incidents or events:
* In 2007, Michael Boddie, his father, told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that
around 2001, Michael Vick was staging dogfights in the garage of the family's home in Newport News and kept fighting dogs in the family's backyard, including injured ones which the father nursed back to health. Boddie said his son had been urged to not engage in the activity, but continued. He stated "This is Mike's thing. And he knows it."
As Falcons quarterback Mike Vick prepares to formally enter a guilty plea on Monday morning,{snip} some league insiders are wondering if/when team owner Arthur Blank will turn his eye toward the folks who were in a position to know (or, at a minimum, to find out) whether Vick was a disaster waiting to happen.
{snip}
In October 2004, Vick was involved in a strange incident at an airport, where two guys who were traveling with him (including Quanis Phillips) allegedly lifted a watch belonging to a luggage-screening employee. Two months later, the Falcons gave Vick a contract extension containing $37 million in bonuses.
So did anyone bother to ask whether Vick and his association with guys like Quanis Phillips was cause for concern before printing out the check for the initial $7.5 million installment? Should the team have looked more carefully at Vick's overall lifestyle before paying him that much money?
The easy answer is "hell yes."
But the bigger issue is whether someone should have raised these questions in advance, and whether anyone actually did. Rich McKay, the Falcons G.M., wasn't on the job when the team drafted Vick, and Blank wasn't the owner. So shouldn't someone have suggested a full background check on the guy before giving him that much money?
Maybe they did, and maybe the security staff couldn't find anything. Or maybe they did, and maybe there were red flags that McKay and/or Blank ignored.
Even if the ultimate reason for not taking a serious look-see into off-field habits of Vick, or for not paying attention to any warning signs that were found, is that Blank was sufficiently smitten with Vick to ignore the problems, someone should have told the emperor that he was butt-naked. In our view, that responsibility ultimately fell to McKay. But McKay might have been reluctant to make ways, or might have been distracted by his desire at the time to politick for the Commissioner's job.
Though we doubt that the Falcons will be flapping their dirty laundry to the press regarding one of the most embarrassing episodes in league history, we think it makes a lot of sense to keep a close eye on the front office over the next few months, because we're convinced that someone is gonna get fired over this.
It might just be McKay.
Steve Wyche of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, who wrote this weekend that the Falcons will attempt to recover $22 million in previously paid bonus money. Pasquarelli responded, "I've actually got the contract sitting right next to me" and then added, "I believe they could probably go after closer to $28 or $29 million."
Poor, poor V, now it's Weed
Actually the most likeable thing about him is that he smokes weed
I heard a rumor last night, that an ongoing investigation will result in the indictments of several big names, in several different sports, over dog fighting.
really? hmmm. i'll bet that's why rex grossman got benched.
If a man named "Rex" goes for dog fighting I will lose faith in humanity.
here rex, here rex - come here boy:D
Indiana bank suing Vick over car loans
hop on board - it just keeps gettin better.
really? hmmm. i'll bet that's why rex grossman got benched.
That's right, he's white isn't he?
Sports stars, whether we like it or not, are role models for our kids. People who are cruel to animals are not the people I want my kids imitating.
Sports players get too much leeway, just because they play sports. It's not anymore ok for them to use drugs, or cheat, or break the law in any other way than it is for anyone else to. I think they should be held to the same standards that everyone else in the world is held to.
I'm glad he lost his commercial contracts. When it starts affecting their money, people take notice.
I fully agree with you, Lady Sidhe.
But, I would also like to have parents help their kids put "stars" of any kind, in perspective. They are not heroes.
They are athletes or actors or musicians or whatever, but not heroes, and not necessarily worth emulating.
Precisely. A "football hero" is just some guy who is good at something that, if we trained a gorilla or orangutan to do no human could touch them"... I am NOT impressed.
Humans are so arrogant, our engineers are so far behind what ants, spiders and termites, among many others can do it is sad.
If we took copper out of the equation we would be back to the stone ages tomorrow.
Our arrogance is our largest weakness and will be the end of us if we never learn to overcome it.
Hero, there have been many and none that we celebrate on a regular basis and the ones that we do, we don't celebrate what makes them heroes.
Again, our arrogance, we don't want to hear about how they overcame but how they conquored.... so pathetic.