The Vital Difference
I've been thinking about this that I said in the Falwell thread quite a bit the past few days, and I think its the closest I've come to adequately explaining why I believe the Republicans, and associated right-wingers (rather than simply being asshole hypocrites) are the biggest threat to American freedom since we were part of the British Empire. Since I have not gotten either of our resident right-wing crazies to respond to it yet...
The difference between a crazy weird right-winger and a crazy weird left-winger is that the left-winger doesnt advocate locking up all the fags, the niggers, the dykes, the heathens. They dont want to destroy all those who dont fit their closedminded backwards draconian morality; they want to help people, and convince them to leave that draconian ridiculousness.
A right-winger would ban gay sex. A left-winger wouldn't make it mandatory.
A right-winger would ban drugs. A left-winger wouldn't make it mandatory.
That is the difference; that is why right-wingers, all of them, are supporters of totalitarianism, authoritarianism, fascism - and why they are so repulsive to me.
Ibram, I am a Right Wing Crazy. And I believe that if you want to be Gay, if that's what makes you happy then do it. Just don't do in my face.
Concerning drugs, legalize God's weed. Cocaine, heroine, and others in that category, death by punga.
Please Ibram, keep your liberal laws and taxes off my a$$.
Remember, We are all God's creations and are supposed to Love each other.
Thank You for allowing my rant. Love Terry
Ibram, I am a Right Wing Crazy. And I believe that if you want to be Gay, if that's what makes you happy then do it. Just don't do in my face.
Concerning drugs, legalize God's weed. Cocaine, heroine, and others in that category, death by punga.
Please Ibram, keep your liberal laws and taxes off my a$$.
Remember, We are all God's creations and are supposed to Love each other.
Thank You for allowing my rant. Love Terry
1.) As long as you have the right to be straight any way you want to be and anywhere you want to be, I have the same right to be queer.
2.) That is exactly what I mean by authoritarianism and fascism. Banning things, making things that hurt nobody else illegal.
3.)The thing is... a liberal law is a
lack of a law. A liberal law is saying you CAN do something if you want to, but not that you HAVE to or CAN'T.
Now, before any of you right-wingers start bitching about gun control - I'm pro gun rights. That's the one weak point of the Democrats, compared to the Republicans. But it's the only, ONLY point on which the right isn't far-and-away more authoritarian than the left.
Here's the thing Ibby, when I was a kid the left was where the real threat of totalitarianism resided. Inside the States, people were hamstrung by regulation and outside the States the Russians were working their mojo. Things were a little different in South America where all flavors of totalitarian were at each other's throats. You are correct that today the American Right is nurturing fascism. This may largely be a result of the old red scare times, when they jettisoned conservatism. I'd say that for now hold the right's feet to the fire, but keep an eye on the left, nobody did totalitarianism like Pol Pot and Uncle Joe Stalin.
I agree that the left, the Communist left, has been terrible about it - but in the US, right now, it's the right that's the problem by a long shot.
Communism is dead, outside North Korea. Fascism is far from it.
I wouldn't mind the right nearly so much if there was more of the libertarian right, and less of the authoritarian right (who usually masquerade as the former, like UG does). As far as I'm concerned, right-left is not NEARLY as important as lib-auth.
The conservatives want to return to the good old days, pre WW II and the Red Menace. The problem with that is described in this rant, I got in an email...
They Were ALL Fascists. At a military level, let's face a nasty fact: WW II was Stalin vs. Hitler. The rest was window dressing. Stalin won because--because what, he was a nicer guy? Nope, he won because his brand of fascism was actually way more ruthless and bloody and effective than Hitler's smalltime snobbery, and because Stalin had the whole US industrial machine backing him. There's no moral lesson in that that I can see.
Of course, most of these WW II fans try real hard not to think about Stalin, so they prefer to think about Britain and the rest of Western Europe. Those are officially the good guys. Well, got some bad news for you: they were all fascists too, just weaker than Stalin and Hitler, more sly and suckup-y. The only lesson they've got to offer is that if you want to survive, start out as a raving fascist and when that becomes uncool, turn coward and start pretending you were always in favor of niceness.
Europe before Stalingrad was an alien planet, as crazy and bloodthirsty as any Aztec priest. Nobody realizes the complete flip-flop Europe did in 1945. Before that, it was a continent full of insane fascists. Some were braver, better soldiers, or smarter; those are the only real differences.
You say fascist like it's a bad thing. Maybe it is but it was once the norm.
1.) ... But it's the only, ONLY point on which the right isn't far-and-away more authoritarian than the left.
What about the mandatory abortions the liberals want to impose? :rolleyes:
2.) That is exactly what I mean by authoritarianism and fascism. Banning things, making things that hurt nobody else illegal.
You're kidding me right? I guess I forgot that the drug trade is a completely benevolent one. It would be nice to think that everyone who uses drugs are just fun loving hippies sitting in a campfire circle, everything is hunky dory. That's a fairytale.
You're right about drugs ruining some peoples lives, Bullitt. But that's not the biggest burden drugs put on society. It's the crime that stems from trying to pay for those drugs after they have been driven underground and the prices climb. And the gang wars to control those profits.
We clearly need a different approach, this one hasn't done dick, for us.
As far as I'm concerned, right-left is not NEARLY as important as lib-auth.
Yep, that is much more useful.
Tell ya what IB. When you become of voting age, which you are not yet, stand up and tell the world that as a gay guy you have these views and see how many people listen to you. Not saying that what you say is not valid, only that the general population at large will pass you off as another poofta... you will be marginalized along with the rest of the liberal left.
3.)The thing is... a liberal law is a lack of a law. A liberal law is saying you CAN do something if you want to, but not that you HAVE to or CAN'T.
i think you're all fucked up with this perception.
What would be the point of legislating at all if it's up to the people to do what they want if they want to?
You're right about drugs ruining some peoples lives, Bullitt. But that's not the biggest burden drugs put on society. It's the crime that stems from trying to pay for those drugs after they have been driven underground and the prices climb. And the gang wars to control those profits.
We clearly need a different approach, this one hasn't done dick, for us.
Exactly. We are getting nowhere with our current strategy against hardcore drugs, or the casual users for that matter. It's just the prohibition era all over again in some respects.
Exactly. We are getting nowhere with our current strategy against hardcore drugs, or the casual users for that matter. It's just the prohibition era all over again in some respects.
No doubt. So let's just legalize it and regulate it. And tax the hell out of it!
Tell ya what IB. When you become of voting age, which you are not yet, stand up and tell the world that as a gay guy you have these views and see how many people listen to you. Not saying that what you say is not valid, only that the general population at large will pass you off as another poofta... you will be marginalized along with the rest of the liberal left.
I rather doubt i will be 'passed off as another poofta', because not everyone is a bigoted fuck like you.
Oh, and congratulations on ignoring every single argument i've made and simply attacking me as always. Dumbass. You think people can't see through your bullshit, see that you have NOTHING to back up ANY of what you say?
I rather doubt i will be 'passed off as another poofta', because not everyone is a bigoted fuck like you.
Oh, and congratulations on ignoring every single argument i've made and simply attacking me as always. Dumbass. You think people can't see through your bullshit, see that you have NOTHING to back up ANY of what you say?
No. Actually you are and will forever be a minority voting block, if you ever reach voting age and actually vote. Therefore, your vote will be marginalized. It is an interesting comment but not really important to the general electorate at large. And that is a fact.
My vote will count just as much as everyone else's vote - none at all. Being a minority doesn't change that.
And you still havent responded to a single thing I've said.
My vote will count just as much as everyone else's vote - none at all. Being a minority doesn't change that.
And you still havent responded to a single thing I've said.
It will count as a regular member of society, true. Not as anything else.
Why should I respond to anything you say?
Why should I respond to anything you say?
Because if you're not responding and just arguing, you're a troll.
Not even arguing; just attacking.
Because if you're not responding and just arguing, you're a troll.
WOW! Now there is an important opinion. AKA, just an opinion.
Not even arguing; just attacking.
Go to the latest gun thread and see if any of the long term posters are attacking or arguing son.
Actually, thats rather what makes a troll a troll.
It's actually a fact to those who frequent this place. Ask a moderator.
It's actually a fact to those who frequent this place. Ask a moderator.
Ummmm... no. I do believe that the current disagreement on the gun thread trumps any comments I have made on this one. Sorry about that.
I never said others weren't guilty of the same thing. I simply stated a fact.
The difference is, the people arguing with such venom - attacking, even - in the gun threads dont do it EVERY SINGLE POST in EVERY SINGLE THREAD. You do nothing but attack people, from thread to thread. Me, Ali, LJ, anyone. You do nothing but attack, attack, attack.
And that's the vital difference. ;)
The difference is, the people arguing with such venom - attacking, even - in the gun threads dont do it EVERY SINGLE POST in EVERY SINGLE THREAD. You do nothing but attack people, from thread to thread. Me, Ali, LJ, anyone. You do nothing but attack, attack, attack.
Well teen, that would be incorrect.
there's a reason his wife left him.
he's a dickhead.
The difference is, the people arguing with such venom - attacking, even - in the gun threads dont do it EVERY SINGLE POST in EVERY SINGLE THREAD. You do nothing but attack people, from thread to thread. Me, Ali, LJ, anyone. You do nothing but attack, attack, attack.
Son, now you know that I have posted many legit subjects on these threads. Need I list them for you? Why the attack?
there's a reason his wife left him.
he's a dickhead.
Damm! she did! let me check!
Nope.
Maybe she found your 6 little pounds. Don't worry, they will be back.
it doesn't bother you that 100% of people on this board think you're an asshole? You're comfortable with hanging around in a place where everyone reviles you? That's something you're used to? I know there are people like you. I work with a guy that everyone hates. he knows it and doesn't care. You're worse than him though. he doesn't care. you seem to enjoy it.
dispute it?
it doesn't bother you that 100% of people on this board think you're an asshole? You're comfortable with hanging around in a place where everyone reviles you? That's something you're used to? I know there are people like you. I work with a guy that everyone hates. he knows it and doesn't care. You're worse than him though. he doesn't care. you seem to enjoy it.
dispute it?
Not important. Sorry.
Maybe he has a mental illness?
Maybe he has a mental illness?
:joint:
but keep an eye on the left, nobody did totalitarianism like Pol Pot and Uncle Joe Stalin.
Except for Hitler whose party ran as right-wing law and order nationalistic anti-communists.
Authoritarian left and authoritarian right are the difference between freezing to death and burning to death, the end result is the same.
Except for Hitler whose party ran as right-wing law and order nationalistic anti-communists.
Authoritarian left and authoritarian right are the difference between freezing to death and burning to death, the end result is the same.
You have a point. Hitler was not the only one. How about Pol Pot?
yeah...and don't forget Hitler....oh...and Pol Pot.....and Stalin!
yeah...and don't forget Hitler....oh...and Pol Pot.....and Stalin!
And don't forget Stalin! Like the big guy said.
The point you raise about the libertarian versus the authoritarian, Ibbie, is why I went libertarian. No masquerades -- ever. What you're seeing, if you see clearly, is what you're getting.
Now a good many of you aren't seeing very clearly yet. (How many of you know who you are is yet another thread's worth.) Is there hope? I think so, but the evidence supporting it may be a little thin.
The fascists and the communists weren't and aren't antitheses: they are competitors for the totalitarianism market. If we keep that population small, these large-P Parties can't make a living.
LJ, while Merc can defend himself, I for one am nowise convinced he's an asshole. I am persuaded, however, that you have a giant mad on about him. So he rubs you personally the wrong way. Is this important in the larger scheme of things? Sometimes what is needed is simply to back off for a while.
UG, the libertarian vs. authoritarian argument, yes, IS the most vital part of it...
And the Republicans are by FAR more authoritarian than the Democrats.
That is why you are a sham, a hypocrite, a fake. Because you claim to support freedom, but still support the Republicans.
UG, the libertarian vs. authoritarian argument, yes, IS the most vital part of it...
And the Republicans are by FAR more authoritarian than the Democrats.
That is why you are a sham, a hypocrite, a fake. Because you claim to support freedom, but still support the Republicans.
Attack, attack, attack...:rolleyes:
Yes, because clearly explaining why I think he's a hypocrite is exactly the same as you categorically insulting entire groups, spewing bigoted ageist, racist, and homophobic filth all over, and harassing multiple members across multiple threads for multiple (bullshit) reasons.
Authoritarian Right - The ethnic cleansing/military/everything will fuck you.
Authoritarian Left - The corruption will fuck you.
Libertarian (aka anarcho-captialism) - The system will fuck you
Anarchy – Utopian society, won't exist.
No way to go except to hide in the middle.
All authoritarian governments are bad for civil liberties whether it is left or right, will fuck you in the end. The right comes off as more brutal because they are upfront with their corruption and views, the left is usually eaten from the inside out.
Also Ibram, by leftists do you mean left as in anarchist left or as authoritarian communism left? They are both left but are completely different.
Also Ibram, by leftists do you mean left as in anarchist left or as authoritarian communism left? They are both left but are completely different.
In this context, by right/left, I just mean Republicans vs. Democrats, in the US, right now, specifically.
In the grand scheme of things its obviously impossible to say whether the left or the right is more or less authoritarian, because obviously both sides cover the spectrum.
But in the USA, right now, the right, the Republicans, are by far more authoritarian.
Yes, because clearly explaining why I think he's a hypocrite is exactly the same as you categorically insulting entire groups, spewing bigoted ageist, racist, and homophobic filth all over, and harassing multiple members across multiple threads for multiple (bullshit) reasons.
Hello Kettle. Let me introduce you to Pot.
You are textbook case of double standards.
In this context, by right/left, I just mean Republicans vs. Democrats, in the US, right now, specifically.
In the grand scheme of things its obviously impossible to say whether the left or the right is more or less authoritarian, because obviously both sides cover the spectrum.
But in the USA, right now, the right, the Republicans, are by far more authoritarian.
I fail to see any double standard anywhere.
I fail to see any double standard anywhere.
Well that is quite obvious. I would expect you to see your own failings.
Still a troll; still utterly failing to add anything worthwhile to the thread.
Still a troll; still utterly failing to add anything worthwhile to the thread.
Well not really, just not interested in adding anything to the rambling thoughts of a confused teen.
Then leave, and go be a bigoted dick somewhere else.
Then leave, and go be a bigoted dick somewhere else.
never. :p
And stop thinking about my dick. :D
Still a troll; still utterly failing to add anything worthwhile to the thread.
So don't respond to him then. Seriously, some of these threads that go on for page after page wouldn't if you didn't rise to the bait.
Merc, let's agree you get to destroy three more threads. I don't really care how it happens, I'm just fixin on a number, here.
But still, there's me telling Ibbie where to go and on occasion where to insert it when he gets there.
In my rather lengthy experience, there's nothing to choose authoritarianismwise between the Republicans -- who have the virtue of more sensible foreign policy -- and the Democrats -- who have traded socialism for virtues of any sort. For just one example, take Clinton's authoritarianism with beating Smith & Wesson over the head with government-mandated gun "fingerprinting" requirements, and Bush's total absence of any such attempting to suppress the gun industry without saying so.
Not being socialists, the Republicans tend to think nearer the Libertarians on economic matters. Naturally enough, I prefer this to the Democrat's penchant for Socialism, which if implemented will be hugely authoritarian as well as a gigantic failure.
No, Ibbie, your post tells me you've been played, and thoroughly. By people older than you.
Jeez, UG, you sound jealous. Are you threatened that mercy will usurp you as ranking asshole? Are you clamoring to be included on the short list of second chances? Look, I know it's something of a blow to you, but we're not talking about you here, m'kay?
Yes, yes, you insult Ibram too. Yay you. Feel better? If you want a countdown too, just make up one of your own. Here, I'll start you off: three, two...
No, Ibbie, your post tells me you've been played, and thoroughly. By people older than you.
Ummmm.... well yep.
Now V, if you're going to confine your definition of "asshole" to merely "disagrees or is likely to disagree with V" -- and your idea of who's an asshole looks suspiciously like that -- you'll end up with everybody in the Cellar laughing at you.
And where are you getting this "jealous" idea?