Al-Qaeda seeks to expand its operations

Al-Qaeda is reaching out from its base in Pakistan to turn militant Islamist groups in the Middle East and Africa into franchises charged with intensifying attacks on western targets, according to European officials and terrorism specialists.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/8b10a240-ef69-11db-a64e-000b5df10621.html

When y'poke a stick in the red ant nest...

Hi, welcome to Al-Qaeda. May I take your order?

Ibram;336424 wrote:

When y'poke a stick in the red ant nest...

Not a very good approach.

Nice. Kids these days.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070420/ap_on_re_as/pakistan_child_executioner_1

According to the AP. Iraqi insurgents are now fighting each other, as "moderate" Sunni terrorists tangle with "extremist" al-Qaeda whose brand of Islam is so radical that it prohibits placing cucumbers beside tomatoes because these vegetables have different genders.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Iraqi police and security forces — not Americans — have been negotiating with 1920 Revolution Brigades fighters, who have said "they want some help against al-Qaida," Baker said.

"That's a plus for this place, and we're going to try to exploit that," he said. "We're not making allies with anybody ... but we are monitoring what's going on."

American officers say the clashes have weakened the insurgency. In the last month in Diyala, 1920 Revolution Brigades fighters eased up attacks on Americans, largely turning their guns on al-Qaida, Baker said.

What makes men kill each other over tomatoes and cucumbers? What makes people kill each other at all? In the last few hours a gunman at the Houston space center took fellow employees hostage, then killed one before killing himself. Over the past few days the US has experienced an epidemic of threats on schools by Cho wannabees, each swearing to break some kind of sick record for psychosis. The spike in these incidents is interesting because they resemble the outcome of a controlled experiment. The numbers of guns out there has not varied much in the last week, but the media coverage of such deranged acts has. The one factor has been held constant while the other has been varied. And the results are strongly suggestive of what my childhood confessors used to emphasize: that bad thoughts have consequences.

As a child I was taught one could "sin through thought, word and deed". Somewhere in the intervening years society seems to have forgotten about the "sins" of thought and word largely because it refused to believe in taboos. There were, the school chaplains used to say, dark doors beyond which it was dangerous for the mind to go. There were thoughts you could not think -- unless you were strong enough to wrestle with what you would find beyond the portal.

Pedophilia, bestiality, extreme cruelty, monstrous behavior -- these are no longer ideas which we dare not entertain or cast out of our minds should they fleet through our consciousness out of the fear of "sin". No.Pedophilia has itself become a cause for enlightened people. The North American Man-Boy Love Association argues children must have sex with adults "before eight or it's too late". Instead we have cast out the idea of sin itself and made the conception of sin as sin our only societal taboo.

But maybe we can "sin through thought and word" after all. Perhaps the school chaplains were right; or at least correct in giving warning about what lay beyond the portal or the "Confirm before you click" warnings on websites. Personally I have gone back to confessing to evil thoughts during Lent; they are sins once again; I am wary anew of the dangers of standing before demons. There may be some beyond my strength.

Malevolence lives in the mind much more than it does in inamate things. Recently the quarter-century crime statistics of two towns, one in Georgia and the other in Illinois were compared. One had forbidden the ownership of guns and the other had made their possession mandatory. The results as you may or may not have guessed, are that crimes in Guntown had dropped while crimes, especially violent crimes in the Gunfree-zone had soared. Like the Virginia Tech incident, people will debate the meaning of these statistics. But like the Virginia Tech case it ought to raise the question of whether, in regulating things, we are regulating the wrong object.

It may be just be possible that bloodlust, the exhortation to cruelty, the legitimization of barbarous violence eventually corrodes and then corrupts completely. The Middle East Times tells us that the Christian evangelists who were recently killed by suspected Islamists in Turkey were savagely tortured. With only knives too, but with the idea to drive it.

Dr. Murat Ugras, a spokesman for the Turgut Ozal Medical center, told the daily Hurriyet of hospital surgeons' fruitless efforts to save Ugur Yuksel, one of the three victims of the massacre at the Zirve (summit) publishing house, which distributed Christian literature.

"He had scores of knife cuts on his thighs, his testicles, his rectum, and his back," Ugras said. "His fingers were sliced to the bone.

"It is obvious that these wounds had been inflicted to torture him," he said.

The two others who were killed, Necati Aydin, pastor of Malatya's tiny Protestant community, and German Tilmann Geske, a Malatya resident with his wife and three children since 2003, were also tortured, press reports said.

The abuse lasted for three hours as the five men detained at the crime scene interrogated the three on their missionary activities, they said.

What made these men torture those evangelists? It was more than the knives in their hands. If one didn't know better, it would be possible to imagine the conflict among terrorists in Anbar as a scene from the squabbling imps of hell. In the end, nothing protects us so much as our sensibilities. A healthy culture instills in its members guideposts, as orderly societies put up highway signs, not in order to block the roads, but to guide us in our freedom.

posted by wretchard at 4/20/2007 04:32:00 PM

http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2007/04/deliver-us-from-evil.html

TheMercenary;336435 wrote:

Not a very good approach.

I don't know, I'm pretty sure not always fucking with other people's lives for our personal gain is a damn good approach. In fact, most of the terrorism is from our "lets fuck with other people's lives for our personal gain" approach.

piercehawkeye45;336463 wrote:

I don't know, I'm pretty sure not always fucking with other people's lives for our personal gain is a damn good approach. In fact, most of the terrorism is from our "lets fuck with other people's lives for our personal gain" approach.

So what you are saying is that radical Muslim extremist violence is caused by something we (the United States) did? You need to study more about their ideas of the Caliphate.

So what you are saying is that radical Muslim extremist violence is caused by something we (the United States) did? You need to study more about their ideas of the Caliphate.

And you need to study more about the West's involvement in muslim countries.

DanaC;336471 wrote:

And you need to study more about the West's involvement in muslim countries.

I have, I am not talking about the West in general. I am well aware of our history and much of yours as well. The aims of the Muslim extremist groups have little to do with us and more to do with their aims against all ideology which does not fit the model they understand to be true.

9/11/2001, They started it.

I think it goes back a long way before that.

TheMercenary;336492 wrote:

I have, I am not talking about the West in general. I am well aware of our history and much of yours as well. The aims of the Muslim extremist groups have little to do with us and more to do with their aims against all ideology which does not fit the model they understand to be true.

From conservative sources? Both sides are at fault, to think it is only their fault or our fault is just stupid. The world isn't black and white Merc, both sides have many faults.

Look at all the terrorist/resistance groups against Israel. All of them I have seen have been started because of Israeli occupation. I am sure that most of these terrorists groups are the same.

"fargon" wrote:

9/11/2001, They started it.

Without any reason? I find that hard to believe. I'm pretty sure that they attacked us because of our occupation in the Middle Eastern countries and us raping them of their natural resources keeping them in poverty. I know that 9/11 was a reactionary attack because of what we did. Does it justify it? No, absolutely not. But is there is reason? Yes, yes there is.

piercehawkeye45;336524 wrote:

From conservative sources?

Hardly.

Both sides are at fault, to think it is only their fault or our fault is just stupid.

Can't really disagree with that.

Look at all the terrorist/resistance groups against Israel. All of them I have seen have been started because of Israeli occupation. I am sure that most of these terrorists groups are the same.

The occupation has now become an excuse. Most of the groups are not the same. The enemy is the same.

I'm pretty sure that they attacked us because of our occupation in the Middle Eastern countries and us raping them of their natural resources keeping them in poverty. I know that 9/11 was a reactionary attack because of what we did. Does it justify it? No, absolutely not. But is there is reason? Yes, yes there is.

Raping them of their resources! Ha. Ever hear of OPEC? We are not raping anything. If anyone is keeping them in poverty it is not the West, it is their governments. Ever been to Saudi, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE? Money is not a problem for the oil rich countries of the world. We are not responsible for 9/11, if you believe that you have been brainwashed by the leftist views of the world. Poor terrorists, maybe you think we should pay them some reparations for having the need to come over here and kill themselves in those big bad bird like symbols of Western greed.

TheMercenary;336547 wrote:

The occupation has now become an excuse. Most of the groups are not the same. The enemy is the same.

They created the monster nevertheless. Israel and the US does nothing to help the people of these countries so the people will do nothing to combat these groups. I have said it before, if we really want to fight this terrorism we will have to help out the people in these countries.

Raping them of their resources! Ha. Ever hear of OPEC?

Ever heard of Operation Ajax? Yes, a lot of the problem is the governments of those countries but we are to blame too. We also have done nothing to help these people either.

We are not responsible for 9/11, if you believe that you have been brainwashed by the leftist views of the world. Poor terrorists, maybe you think we should pay them some reparations for having the need to come over here and kill themselves in those big bad bird like symbols of Western greed.

Who are we? The American people aren't but the American government is partially responsible. It is cause and effect. If we do one thing, they will react in a certain way. I am not brainwashed because I can look at both sides to an issue, I have just picked my side on this issue.

piercehawkeye45;336572 wrote:

I have just picked my side on this issue.

Ok, I just think you understanding is a bit confused. Whatever.

piercehawkeye45;336572 wrote:

Ever heard of Operation Ajax?

Of course, but that is one small blip on the history of intervention of Western nations in third world countries, at the time, where we had global interests. Persia was but one small front at that time in history. It was not somehow the grand spark for the current hatred of Muslims against Western society. Hell the Arabs and Persian's hate each other. How would that one event explain all of the other problems or the desires of Wahhabism and its goal of expansionist thinking? It cannot.

There are others like it.

Why do you like to try to force me to an extremist view when I don't have that?

piercehawkeye45;336579 wrote:

Why do you like to try to force me to an extremist view when I don't have that?

I don't have an extremist view either. I am not forcing you into anything.

Al-Qaeda ‘planning big British attack’

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1687360.ece

Merc, al-Qaeda are always planning something or another. It is up to the US, England and others to counter them, or eliminate the threat entirely in a way that doesn't create more terrorists in turn. I must say that Bush is the biggest recruiter of terrorists.

The only way the americans would not recruit terrorists is to surrender and kill themselves.

No, there are more effective ways, better than what America is doing and certainly better than what Russia is doing re Chechyans.

Like what?

Such as

1) not attacking another country, diluting resorces in the process, and in so doing creating a vacuum filled by the enemy.

2) Not attacking schools, then crying why the terrorists are attacking your schools in return.

How many muslim nations and schools did america invade that caused the 9/11 attacks?

Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt, Iraq Mk. I (actually that probably didnt piss them off a whole lot, they didn't like Saddam any more than we did)...

Osama used to be our friend against the Reds in Afghanistan. Then he asked us nicely if we could kinda pull out of some musilm holy land, like in saudi arabia.

We said "FUCK YOU COCKSUCKER!" and ignored him.
He got pissed.


I'm not saying he's right, but theres the motivation right there.

When did the americans invade saudi arabia, pakistan and egypt?

Sort through this. A timeline of US intervention in other countries since 1945.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

Edit- This is at 1999 so it won't have post 9/11 interventions.

piercehawkeye45;336885 wrote:

Sort through this. A timeline of US intervention in other countries since 1945.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

Edit- This is at 1999 so it won't have post 9/11 interventions.

Some of the language used in that articles suggests a bit of biased from the author. So I wonder how much of it is true or embellished.

Libya, 1981-89:
Libya refused to be a proper Middle East client state of Washington. Its leader, Muammar el-Qaddafi, was uppity. He would have to be punished. U.S. planes shot down two Libyan planes in what Libya regarded as its air space. The U. S . also dropped bombs on the country, killing at least 40 people, including Qaddafi's daughter. There were other attempts to assassinate the man, operations to overthrow him, a major disinformation campaign, economic sanctions, and blaming Libya for being behind the Pan Am 103 bombing without any good evidence.

Afghanistan, 1979-92:
Everyone knows of the unbelievable repression of women in Afghanistan, carried out by Islamic fundamentalists, even before the Taliban. But how many people know that during the late 1970s and most of the 1980s, Afghanistan had a government committed to bringing the incredibly backward nation into the 20th century, including giving women equal rights? What happened, however, is that the United States poured billions of dollars into waging a terrible war against this government, simply because it was supported by the Soviet Union. Prior to this, CIA operations had knowingly increased the probability of a Soviet intervention, which is what occurred. In the end, the United States won, and the women, and the rest of Afghanistan, lost. More than a million dead, three million disabled, five million refugees, in total about half the population.

And there have been US troops stationed in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, all over the place for a long time. If you ask Al-Qaeda, they arent invited guests - theyre invading occupiers taking their hospitality at gunpoint.

The intention of the author is obviously anti-american -- but the facts are all straight. This author doesnt love america -- because of the very facts that he tells here.

Like I said before I doubt the authenticity of that site because the author is obviously has issue with the americans. I really love the part where he says the americans were shooting down libya planes and blaming terrorists acts on him because the was "uppity" lol

And any american troops that are in saudia arabia, pakistan or egypt are there because those governments allowed them to be there. Just because a terrorist organization like al qaeda says the americans forced themselves there doesn't make it true.

So you deny that America prettymuch does what they want and tells these countries to give them free reign to live, fight, and train there?

Yes I do because I haven't seen anything yet that proves otherwise.

bin Laden was offended by the slow decline of Arabic civilization, particularly in Saudi Arabia, and felt that the only road to fixing that would be to implement sharia law and the hardest of hard line pure Islamism.

You may recognize the "ugly foreigners are the cause of all our problems" concept. It's taken up by such groups as the National Front, and here in the US by the KKK, and by morons everywhere around the world.

But why attack? When the US withdrew from Lebanon and Somalia, they gave hardass Islamists a roadmap to getting the US out of Saudi Arabia: just hit 'em hard, and they'll fold like paper tigers.

bin Laden said so quite directly, in his 1996 fatwa:

But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where- after vigorous propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of the new world order- you moved tens of thousands of international force, including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However, when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge , but these threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear. It was a pleasure for the "heart" of every Muslim and a remedy to the "chests" of believing nations to see you defeated in the three Islamic cities of Beirut , Aden and Mogadishu.

This, in turn, is why it's now vitally important for Iraq not to be seen as a US defeat.

In 1978 the PDPA seized power from Daoud in a military coup. After seizing power they began a series of limited reforms, such as declaring, more or less, a secular state, and that women were deserving of equal treatment of men. They sought to curtail the practice of purchasing brides, and tried to implement a land reform program. They quickly met with fierce opposition from many sections of the deeply religious population though. The PDPA’s response to this was very heavy-handed, aggravating the situation. Soon several rural areas rose in open armed rebellion against the new government.

http://afghangovernment.com/briefhistory.htm

I'm not going to search for American intervention in Afghanistan because it is pretty common knowledge. Just because something is bias doesn't mean that the facts don't check out.

Ibram;336891 wrote:

The intention of the author is obviously anti-american -- but the facts are all straight. This author doesnt love america -- because of the very facts that he tells here.

His facts are not facts. They are riddled with opinion. I don't think you like this country either.

"The engine of American foreign policy has been fueled not by a devotion to any kind of morality, but rather by the necessity to serve other imperatives, which can be summarized as follows:
* making the world safe for American corporations;
* enhancing the financial statements of defense contractors at home who have contributed generously to members of congress;
* preventing the rise of any society that might serve as a successful example of an alternative to the capitalist model;
* extending political and economic hegemony over as wide an area as possible, as befits a "great power."
This in the name of fighting a supposed moral crusade against what cold warriors convinced themselves, and the American people, was the existence of an evil International Communist Conspiracy, which in fact never existed, evil or not."

These initial statement are so littered with anti-American opinion they could have come from a site like anti-war.com.

"Blum founded Washington Free Press and is the author of a monthly newsletter titled "The Anti-Empire Report."

In January 2006, Osama bin Laden released an audio tape threatening the U.S. and quoting William Blum while recommending that Americans read Blum's Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower. This 'free advertisement' caused a huge increase in sales of "Rogue State.""

I bet he was proud to be quoted by his friend Osama.

Just because Osama recommended The Rogue State shouldn't mean anything to Blum or his credibility.

Those quotes you gave, they are biased against America but that doesn’t mean they are false. You have to look at the base of capitalism. The whole point of capitalism is to make as much money as possible and there is no room for morals. Why is it so hard to believe that our rulers would attack a country so our companies can make more money? I am not proposing NWO or anything like that but those quotes work perfectly with capitalism.

Right now we are getting edgy with Venezuela and they are starting to get back on there feet without the use of capitalism.

piercehawkeye45;336907 wrote:

Just because Osama recommended The Rogue State shouldn't mean anything to Blum or his credibility.

Those quotes you gave, they are biased against America but that doesn’t mean they are false. You have to look at the base of capitalism. The whole point of capitalism is to make as much money as possible and there is no room for morals. Why is it so hard to believe that our rulers would attack a country so our companies can make more money? I am not proposing NWO or anything like that but those quotes work perfectly with capitalism.

Right now we are getting edgy with Venezuela and they are starting to get back on there feet without the use of capitalism.

And that is the problem with them. These quotes fall into a quasi-conspiracy theory mode. The person capitalizing on capitalism is the author. Blum made a history of himself by writing expose's a long time ago. He is well known for his sensationalism and he is an expert at blending hard facts with enough conjecture to make what he writes sound perfectly believable to those who are already of the mindset to be fed off of the hype. I have read a number of places where some of his expose's lead directly to the death of CIA agents.

Capitalism is the most successful system ever devised. The whole point of capitalism is economic freedom but like any system invented by people it can be abused. I'm not sure I buy into the conspiracy theories that americans invade nations for the sole purpose of corporate gain.

His facts are not facts. They are riddled with opinion. I don't think you like this country either.

Yeah, cause if you can look at your country's history and spot where it has acted aggressively, immorally, selfishly or ineffectively you clearly dont like your country. If you can read through propoganda against your country and separate facts from extraneous opinions, then you don't like your country.

DanaC;337217 wrote:

Yeah, cause if you can look at your country's history and spot where it has acted aggressively, immorally, selfishly or ineffectively you clearly dont like your country. If you can read through propoganda against your country and separate facts from extraneous opinions, then you don't like your country.

I can do all of those things and I still love this country....:D

DanaC wrote:

Yeah, cause if you can look at your country's history and spot where it has acted aggressively, immorally, selfishly or ineffectively you clearly dont like your country. If you can read through propoganda against your country and separate facts from extraneous opinions, then you don't like your country.

I dont do those things because I hate my country; I hate my country because I do those things.

Ibram;337225 wrote:

I dont do those things because I hate my country; I hate my country because I do those things.

Your country most likely still loves you. Even when you hate it and react with your teen hormones towards the love it shows for you...

God-fucking-DAMMIT merc, fuckin' shut up about me being a teenager already. I dont give you shit about being an old half-senile coot; dont give me shit about being young, tough, and still smarter than you.
At least keep it in the one thread already poisoned by your shit.

Ibram;337245 wrote:

God-fucking-DAMMIT merc, fuckin' shut up about me being a teenager already. I dont give you shit about being an old half-senile coot; dont give me shit about being young, tough, and still smarter than you.
At least keep it in the one thread already poisoned by your shit.

Spoken like a true teen with years of experience behind him... miles of world travel... years of job experience... years of relationships with women... years of experience as a parent... years of parenting teens... yep...

You go boy! ;)

Merc, a teenager can have just as a valid argument as a 60 year old can. While it helps, most arguments have nothing to do with experience but knowing the facts and history of the topic. Age has nothing to do with that.

UT, seriously dude, I'm waiting for that ban...

By the way, merc, how many times have you circled the earth?

piercehawkeye45;337260 wrote:

Merc, a teenager can have just as a valid argument as a 60 year old can. While it helps, most arguments have nothing to do with experience but knowing the facts and history of the topic. Age has nothing to do with that.

Based on?????


Some esoteric understanding of the world of 16 years of experience around them???

Please...:headshake

Ibram;337261 wrote:

UT, seriously dude, I'm waiting for that ban...

By the way, merc, how many times have you circled the earth?

You keep wanting me to be banned. You have mentioned it over and over.

I have no ill will toward you, teen. Relax.

I have more brown T-shirts in my bottom drawer that represent my trots across the globe than you have fantasies of worldly experience....

Chill out teen.

Yes, cause I'm sure you lived in three countries (and visited over 18) before your sixteenth birthday.

You're a joke, merc. A sick, twisted, dispicable, humourless joke.

Ibram;337271 wrote:

You're a joke, merc. A sick, twisted, dispicable, humourless joke.

Nope.

I am an adult. You are a teen.

Trumps your hand each and every time.... :D

TheMercenary;337268 wrote:

Based on?????


Some esoteric understanding of the world of 16 years of experience around them???

Please...:headshake

Once you mature (early teens usually) you have just as much logic and reasoning as you do when you are 60. That is a fact. I'm not going to get into an argument about age, I am stopping it here.

piercehawkeye45;337276 wrote:

Once you mature (early teens usually) you have just as much logic and reasoning as you do when you are 60. That is a fact. I'm not going to get into an argument about age, I am stopping it here.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

I would love to see you back that one up! :driving:

The funny thing about, you know, facts, reality, life, and all that, Merc, is that it sometimes exists contrary to one's bigotrys and prejudices.

For some, it runs contrary much more often than others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_cognitive_development
http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/development/piaget.shtml
http://psychology.about.com/od/piagetstheory/p/formaloperation.htm

# Formal operational stage (years 11-adulthood)

will you please shut up now, merc?

Ibram;337286 wrote:

will you please shut up now, merc?

HAAA! now there is a life time of experience!

16 - 11 = 4

So you started your life experience at 4 years of age...

Wonderful for you. You have a loooooooooooooooonnnnggg way to go. ;)

Oh my god.

What the hell?

You look at a chart that says, from 11 years up, people are cognitively on the same level...

...and you then subtract eleven from my age?


Try some kindergarten-level reading comprehension and then we can talk.

Ibram;337290 wrote:

Oh my god.

What the hell?

You look at a chart that says, from 11 years up, people are cognitively on the same level...

...and you then subtract eleven from my age?


Try some kindergarten-level reading comprehension and then we can talk.

You put the figures up son, not me...

These are not really bannable offenses, Ib. Asking for the ban is inappropriate too. And asking for it from me when there are three people who perform such services, puts it all on me in a way that I have specifically tried to avoid for 17 yaers.

Ibby, your reaction to merc is what gives him power. Shift back into "just the facts" mode and he'll wither. The ban thing is little used here and almost always controversial. Both of you apparently touch nerves in each other and you should consider that before interacting.

Sorry dude. My bad. I'll leave you out of it, I didnt mean to put it all on you like that - i guess i dont think sometimes, a thousand apologies, man. I'll leave you out of it - not your fight.

But honestly, to the rest of you... hounding me throughout all these threads, spewing hateful, flaming filth, intentionally trying to rile me up, screaming homophobia and ageism... that looks a lot like 'intolerably irritating' from where I'm standing.

Anyone else care to back me up here? If I'm the only voice crying foul here I'll shut up and keep waging this pointless awful war with this evil old man who just can't leave me alone. Block me or ignore me or avoid me or yell at me or beg me to shut up, put this on me if you want... but first tell me, is this looking like hes flaming, trolling, hounding, intolerable irritation to any of you?



I dont want this to (and really doubt it will) come to a 'he goes or i go' thing, but he's making it harder and harder for me to come back. I've been here a year and I love the cellar dearly, but he's poisoning the atmosphere here, with constant jibes of 'teen', 'fag', 'kid', etc. It doesnt hurt, but it makes the vellar that much less fun, that much less enjoyable. Nearly every single post he's made in the past few days has been either pointedly or (not very) subtly aimed at me, 'teen'; every post has been full of hate and acid that is the anathema of what the cellar should be, has been; every post has been an attack on me and me alone. It's not enjoyable, and it's killing the cellar.

Make no mistake, I see what he is doing and it is awful. If it keeps up a consensus will develop.

Griff wrote:

If it keeps up a consensus will develop.

Which is not to say that you should deliberately keep it up.

Trolls are trolls, man. He's decided he's going to jerk your chain and he'll keep doing it as long as you leave your chain out there behind you. There's no shame in putting someone on ignore. They're just not worth the energy, you know?

Clodfobble;337339 wrote:

Which is not to say that you should deliberately keep it up.

Exactly.

I've said this before, but to some degree it is up to the community to self-police. griff is right; you earn respect here, and Merc has done some damage to his earnings.

Also, if you don't like the Cellar today come back tomorrow and it will be different. It's different every day. The personality mix is very fluid.

I am pretty sure that every thread that is open can be commented on by anyone correct?

You'all comment on any thread or comment I make correct?

And I am free to make comments as I see fit as well correct?

And anyone can post a comment like "TheMercenary? You're a mother-fucking asshole" or "You're an asshole" or "The Mercenary IS, in fact, an Asshole". So basically I accept those are opinions. And I should be allowed and feel free to share my opinions about comments made directly to me, about me, about topics I post, and about the people who post them, correct? All is fair right?

And as Glatt clearly pointed out " But this is a public forum. Anybody can respond to anything you say here if they want to. If you want a private conversation with someone, use the private messaging feature of the site."

Most of this stuff starts with someone disagreeing with a position I take on an issue and then they feel free to make a jab, I make one back ramp it up a little, they make one and next thing you know everyone has their panties in a wad while failing to look at their own comments or behaivor. I am not saying that I don't play the game like the rest of you, cause I do... maybe that is what pisses people off the most. I have no idea. But I assure you, until notified of some rule change, I will feel free to comment as I see fit about anything, as all of you have obviously done so.

You quote me, but don't for a second think that I support you in this.

Ibram is more mature than you are.

Ibram, you should really put him on ignore.

Guys, I have no beef with either of you. IMHO, you are both being exhibitionistic with your little squabble, and it's tiresome. "Merc is so mean...Ibram is so mature..blah blah blah..." "No you are, no you are..." Give me a break. Broken records are boring whether you're right, wrong, or indifferent.

Flame each other to death in PMs.:2cents:

Now, what's going on with Al Queda? :rolleyes:

glatt;337350 wrote:

You quote me, but don't for a second think that I support you in this.

Ibram is more mature than you are.

Ibram, you should really put him on ignore.

Not looking for support of any kind from you.

I am however, pointing out the obvious which you and others have chosen to ignore.

Shawnee123;337351 wrote:

Now, what's going on with Al Queda? :rolleyes:

Good question. :D

Ibram;337324 wrote:

Anyone else care to back me up here? If I'm the only voice crying foul here I'll shut up and keep waging this pointless awful war with this evil old man who just can't leave me alone. Block me or ignore me or avoid me or yell at me or beg me to shut up, put this on me if you want... but first tell me, is this looking like hes flaming, trolling, hounding, intolerable irritation to any of you?

I'm not a fan of bans, outside of spammers, but other than that I'll back you up. When he runs out of arguments he just starts posting stupid insulting crap. If it affects your desire to come to the Cellar, it's probably best to just put him on ignore.

Just put him on ignore and get on with your life. If everyone begged for the masses to be on their side every time they were slighted, we'd all be a bunch of blubbering idiots. God, why do I care? I don't know, but I will say that neither one of you is completely without blame. Get over it.

Or: no please stay, please don't go, oh please oh please oh please. :eyebrow:

Merc, the Cellar rules:[LIST=1]
[*]Do not try to break the law using the Cellar.
[*]Do not try to break the Cellar.
[*]Do not be "intolerably irritating".[/LIST]Rule #3 is the rule under which most people have been banned over the years. It's pretty hard to get to the point of intolerability. The rule is extremely subjective and it's interpreted by three different people. This is part of the fluidity. Of course you can point out that you feel someone's an asshole, and you can be an asshole yourself. "Testing" the rules ("Hmmm, how far can I go?") is the one thing that gives me an itchy ban finger... so much so that it really should be rule #3a.

It is through this approach that the Cellar attempts to reach a higher moral plane than simple law-n-order. Very little is actually against the rules because it's nearly impossible to build a set of rules that would apply to every intolerably irritating situation. So it's not about the rules; it's about making a positive contribution to the forum through reasonable communication.

On NPR today... You have to go to the site to listen to it. Very interesting.

Interviews
Moroccan Village Funnels Suicide Bombers to Iraq


Morning Edition, April 25, 2007 · Moroccan authorities believe the village of Tetuan has sent as many as 30 suicide bombers from the North African village to Iraq. Scott Atran, senior fellow at City University of New York's Center on Terrorism, briefed the National Security Council on the issue in March.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9814476

I listened to that one this morning. They sent 30 to Iraq after providing the 5 sets of legs for the Spanish bombings as well. Atran said something about the North Africans seeing the jihad as the only counter-balance to US hegemony. (a sloppy paraphrase) It is stunning how we're perceived after a half-century of meddling. I don't see us changing methodologies anytime soon so it will get worse.

Undertoad;337368 wrote:

It is through this approach that the Cellar attempts to reach a higher moral plane than simple law-n-order. Very little is actually against the rules because it's nearly impossible to build a set of rules that would apply to every intolerably irritating situation. So it's not about the rules; it's about making a positive contribution to the forum through reasonable communication.

Did you see a story recently on policing the internet? Folks who show know better are trying to get a code of conduct for folks to embrace net wide. Sometimes when things get a little wild here people learn something about human behavior and about their own attitudes. The Cellar is about as close to free speech as anyone will see, complete with reaction. peace out

TheMercenary;337375 wrote:

Moroccan authorities believe the village of Tetuan has sent as many as 30 suicide bombers from the North African village to Iraq.

Morocco is one of America's closest Arab friends. Morocco demonstrates how American extremist hate is even making closest friends into enemies. Once upon a time, over 70% of the world thought positively of the United States. Then wacko extremists took power. Some Americans hated so much as to even believe Rush Limbaugh. Extremists lied - and did so repeatedly. Therefore American approval ratings dropped to the 20 and 30 percentiles even in countries that were once America's closest friends.

At what point does the evidence become obvious to wacko extremist supporters in The Cellar. Why so many suicide bombers? American leaders - the wacko right wing of the Republican party - are making enemies even of once strong American friends. Wackos deny this using tricks such as denying or forgetting history. For example, denying the many FBI investigations that were stifled before discovering 11 September.

A Norwegian foreign minister within months predicted George Jr would destroy the Oslo Accords. That wasn't good enough. George Jr has so tried to create Armageddon that even Morocco villagers now become suicide bombers. No wonder Americans openly advocate international kidnapping, secret prisons, imprisonment without judicial review, and of course torture. Torture is good - implies our wacko extremist Republican leaders. If so, then it is also good for Moroccans to be suicide bombers. That conclusion is inevitable when American leaders are corrupt and supported by extremists who are just as anti-American.