Kids and the Internet
So help me out here... do parents have the right to control what their kids do on the internet in their home, on their computers, when the parents are paying the bill? Or do kids (teens of any age) get to do just whatever the hell they want and the parents are to stand by and let them have full run of the net??
Please comment since there are teens here who think they can do whatever they want.
This is a serious question, please give an explanation of why you support your position. Thanks.
The right is completely the parent's.
I have the right to paint "FUCK ALL THE MOTHER-FUCKING NIGGERFUCKERS" on my roof. I wont because only a dick would do that.
Controlling what your kid does is the authoritarian, dictorial, idiotic, and in all other ways wrong thing to do.
Teach them why they should or shouldnt do something, then trust them to do the right thing. If you taught them well, if they have half a brain, they'll do fine.
I have the right to paint "FUCK ALL THE MOTHER-FUCKING NIGGERFUCKERS" on my roof.
WRONG IB , you have the ability to do that ,
and you Dad or some other authoriety figuer has the RIGHT to punnish you for it .
If one of my kids had done some thing like that I would have stood over them while they scrubed it off or replaced the shingles , then they would have had to pay for said repairs out of their own pockets , oh and be grounded for a LONG WHILE ,
Rember slick , your parents are ONLY required to provide you with food clothing and shelter , EVERY thing else is a privlage ,
Think No IPod , PC ( exept for school work ) , all your toys ( guitars , make ups , weird clothes ETC ,,,, )
What they give they can take away ,
Ask my Step daughter about the time I took her bed room door privlageds away for 2 weeks , or the time she got to spend in a tent in the back yard for a week .
Who said I controlled anything? Please review all previous posts teen and point out where I stated that I "controlled" anything they did. All that was stated son was that I monitored via appropriate spyware. Good stuff.
By 'my house' i meant 'a house owned by me' - maybe not me PERSONALLY etc, but if it's MY house (not my family's, MINE), then I can do what I want with it. I'm not arguing as a teen; I'm arguing as a person. I know as a teen I have next-to-no rights. I'm talking about people, not about ME.
Who said I controlled anything? Please review all previous posts teen and point out where I stated that I "controlled" anything they did.
So help me out here... do parents have the right to control what their kids do on the internet in their home, on their computers, when the parents are paying the bill?
Can we just keep this in one thread for God's sake?
In that case IB you could do what you want , untill the cops come and make you scrub it off ,
Just like access to any other adult material, guns, alcohol, porn; adult rated films, music, games and other material a parent has a right to monitor & limit access to adult websites, blog content, videos, and possible people (just like where your kids go and whom they speak to in life) posing as someone other than whom they claim to be.
One is NO DIFFERENT than the other.
It is not a parent's right to do so... it is their obligation... if they do not, they are lacking in parenting skills and, well, you can fill the rest in.
Monitoring is control. If you can stop something you don't want, you have, in effect, already done so.
So what you're saying, rkzenrage, that even though I'm obviously a responsible and trustworthy kid, most of the time, my parents are wrong for giving me the freedom to use the internet (and therefore come here on the cellar) without them breathing down my neck?
Teaching someone what they should and shouldnt do, and why, is better and more effective than any amount of iron-fisted control or spying.
By 'my house' i meant 'a house owned by me' - maybe not me PERSONALLY etc, but if it's MY house (not my family's, MINE), then I can do what I want with it. I'm not arguing as a teen; I'm arguing as a person. I know as a teen I have next-to-no rights. I'm talking about people, not about ME.
And I am talking ONLY about teens, as we have from the beginning of this discussion, don't try to change horses in the middle of the stream.
Again teen, my house, my rules.
Say it with me again here folks. A right is not the same as a good course of action.
I have the right to, say, carry a wad of hundred-dollar bills and wave them at the homeless people down on skid row. But I wont because that would make me a DICK.
I'm not denying that its your internet, your house, your computer, your rules - I'm just saying that because of your rules, youre an asshole.
Say it with me again here folks. A right is not the same as a good course of action.
I have the right to, say, carry a wad of hundred-dollar bills and wave them at the homeless people down on skid row. But I wont because that would make me a DICK.
I'm not denying that its your internet, your house, your computer, your rules - I'm just saying that because of your rules, youre an asshole.
Cool, and I am saying you are inmature teen who has never known the responsiblity of parenthood and never has even paid your own damm bills long enough to know what the term "responsibility" means. Now go get a job.:D
So what you're saying, rkzenrage, that even though I'm obviously a responsible and trustworthy kid, most of the time, my parents are wrong for giving me the freedom to use the internet (and therefore come here on the cellar) without them breathing down my neck?
Teaching someone what they should and shouldnt do, and why, is better and more effective than any amount of iron-fisted control or spying.
You read "iron fisted" and "breathing down my neck" into my post.
I never stated nor implied monitoring every mail, post, site for a teen of sixteen to eighteen. But, the ability to if you feel their is evidence, or if you just need piece of mind, is just good parenting.
Do your parents ask where you are at night, who you were with?
It is
identical.
Also, my statement was not teen specific, you also read that into my post.
My son is three and plays games on-line, am I an asshole?
rkzenrage, I knew you werent saying that. I was describing
Merc's scenario, not yours, to point out that you dont agree with him.
Cool, and I am saying you are inmature teen who has never known the responsiblity of parenthood and never has even paid your own damm bills long enough to know what the term "responsibility" means. Now go get a job.
Ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem... yawn.
You have yet to respond to my arguments once.
You fail.
um, so um . . .
how old should a child to get his/her own email address?
on second thought--
nevermind!
um, so um . . .
how old should a child to get his/her own email address?
on second thought--
nevermind!
Well according to the teens on here, it sounds like 10 years old and unsupervised would be Ok with them.:eek:
rkzenrage, I knew you werent saying that. I was describing Merc's scenario, not yours, to point out that you dont agree with him.
Ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem... yawn.
You have yet to respond to my arguments once.
You fail.
You fail because you have no experience. If I fail it is because I fail trying.
So there its settled , you both fail , !!!!!!
So there its settled , you both fail , !!!!!!
No, age and treachery trumps youth.:)
Still more ad hominem?
When is it going to get through to you that even though I dont have kids, I know the effect of authoritarian dictatorship in the household?
You are saying your experience automatically makes you right. I'm saying logic says you are wrong.
Who's making more sense here?
Who's making more sense here?
It sure the hell is not you. Well I bet most teens would agree with you, so I will give you that others who lack the experience of parenthood may share your views.:rolleyes:
TM, you have yet to even make an argument for anyone other than you to agree with! All you have done is call me every name you can think of. You have yet to defend the fact that you overcontrol your children other than the fact that you can.
rkzenrage, I knew you werent saying that. I was describing Merc's scenario, not yours, to point out that you dont agree with him.
Ok... can you respond to my post now? This does seem to be a peeve of yours.
TM, you have yet to even make an argument for anyone other than you to agree with! All you have done is call me every name you can think of. You have yet to defend the fact that you overcontrol your children other than the fact that you can.
Again, I know you have the hearing and attention span of a teen so let me repeat this slowwwwwlllly.....
Where do I "over control" my children?
What's there to respond to?
Sure, parents should limit kids' access to ADULT content... I guess. (I rather resent the assumption that there is a such thing as adult content, but thats up to you)
But for a teenager especially, teaching them why they shouldnt do it then trusting them not to until theyre ready for it is the only acceptable course of action, in my book, and the only that will work.
Again, I know you have the hearing and attention span of a teen so let me repeat this slowwwwwlllly.....
Where do I "over control" my children?
Any parent with a teen in the house should get and have installed on all computers in the house this program, we have it on all of ours and can monitor everything our kids do: http://www.computer-monitoring.com/spectorpro.htm
You can also get this:
http://www.mysafekeeper.com/blockteens/
What's there to respond to?
Sure, parents should limit kids' access to ADULT content... I guess. (I rather resent the assumption that there is a such thing as adult content, but thats up to you)
But for a teenager especially, teaching them why they shouldnt do it then trusting them not to until theyre ready for it is the only acceptable course of action, in my book, and the only that will work.
Out of the mouth of a babe... why of course a teen such as you would make such a comment. You are all knowing. All experienced. So I would suggest that your comment of
I am a Mother-fucking-Asshole because of the way I choose to parent is none of you punk teen business. :D now is it? And may you be blessed with a child just like you, that is the best anyone could hope for you. I wish you the best. And I hope that no harm comes to any of your spawn because of your ignorance.
We need to make an 'ad hominem' smiley or something so I dont have to keep typing it over and over.
Originally Posted by TheMercenary
Again, I know you have the hearing and attention span of a teen so let me repeat this slowwwwwlllly.....
Where do I "over control" my children?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary
Any parent with a teen in the house should get and have installed on all computers in the house this program, we have it on all of ours and can monitor everything our kids do: http://www.computer-monitoring.com/spectorpro.htm
You can also get this:
Sorry son, no evidence of control, only monitoring.
Oh, okay, so you just watch them, just for the hell of it, no assumption of control or authority?
Yeah, and the 1984 viewscreens are only there for watching too.
We need to make an 'ad hominem' smiley or something so I dont have to keep typing it over and over.
Your inability to discuss the issue, esp the original comment, hardly qualifies as "ad hominem". But hey, have at it teen...:D
Oh, okay, so you just watch them, just for the hell of it, no assumption of control or authority?
Yeah, and the 1984 viewscreens are only there for watching too.
I see you are right on track:
Which of you two is going to be the bigger man and put an end to this juvenile flame war? Seriously. Its time to knock it off. There are kids who read this forum.
What the fuck?
YOU have yet to discuss the issue as anything but "OMG I CAN DO WTVR I WANT ITS MY HOUS N MY NET AND I CAN!!!one!!1!111one"
Your only defense of your actions is "i can so i will".
Alas, Merc, I must go to the school with my mother (she just had a kidney stone so she doesnt wanna hike all the way down the hill alone), so I'll be back in an hour or so to continue this lovely (if rather one-sided) 'debate'.
Beestie, I'm not letting go of this one until he stops attacking me and starts actually explaining or debating in a mature fashion, in anything but an ad hominem manner.
Beestie, I'm not letting go of this one until he stops attacking me and starts actually explaining or debating in a mature fashion, in anything but an ad hominem manner.
Teen, you have made no argument. Other than "You are a Mother-Fucking-Asshole" because I said parents should get internet monitoring software if they have teens, like you, in their house. Where is the argument?
How did I attack you if you call me a "Mother-Fucking-Asshole"?
Cloud, you might like to read my response in the other thread. I'm sure others also would like to add something but their comments are likely to get lost in the piles of poo being flung around in here.
Teen, you have made no argument. Other than "You are a Mother-Fucking-Asshole" because I said parents should get internet monitoring software if they have teens, like you, in their house. Where is the argument?
How did I attack you if you call me a "Mother-Fucking-Asshole"?
I called you an asshole because you spy on your kids. That was an attack, of course. Most insults are.
In return, instead of debating, you spent the better part of the next two hours attacking me relentlessly,
pretending to be debating.
My position has been and still is "If your kids have half a brain at all they can make their own decisions about what is and isnt okay. You teach them how to be safe, and let them do the rest." Yours is... nonexistent at this point. You have yet to even give a position that isnt "IBRM IS STOOPID CUZ HE IS A TEENAGR LOLFAG!!11!one!"
I'm still in favor of bannage, for his awful, filthy homophobic trolling trash if for nothing else.
There are kids who read this forum.
Like TheMercenary?? :p
Teen, you have made no argument. Other than "You are a Mother-Fucking-Asshole" because I said parents should get internet monitoring software if they have teens, like you, in their house. Where is the argument?
How did I attack you if you call me a "Mother-Fucking-Asshole"?
By installing such software, you're telling everyone that you have NO TRUST IN YOUR OWN FUCKING CHILDREN. That's why you're getting stock with the label of "M-F-A"
All the "Internet Monitoring Software" in the world will not stop a determined enough child anyway, so what's the point? Grow some balls, and EDUCATE your children about "teh horrorz of teh pr0n on teh intarwebz" intead of being a do-nothing bastard, hoping a bunch of 0's and 1's will kep your kids off the pornsites.
I'd pity you, dude, but that's just not in my character.
How about y'all discuss this in a mature fashion.
No matter how valid your argument is, calling someone a MFA takes away any impact the rest of your argument has.
And constantly calling someone, "kid", "teen", "faggot" (see other post), does the same as well as making you look like a condescending twit.
If you can't do these things, please stop the talk. It gives me a headache.
Merc and Ibram. You're both right. But you're talking about different worlds and addressing different parts of a mis-matched either/or question.
Merc, yes of course bill paying parents have the right to put any restrictions they damn well please on the service they are paying for. That said, I agree with Ibram in the main, but my kids are in an alternative school and they and their school mates are not representative of todays youth in general. Ibram, you're home-schooled, right? Sounds like that puts you in the same category as my kids. They do not need internet supervision because their entire schooling is based around self-direction, commmunity awareness, learning skills, responsibilty etc. We trust them and they repay that trust. Yes, of course we check occasionally to make sure, but we do that openly. we don't spy. But we must give them a loing leash, so they can test what we have taught them about internet safety to make sure of it for themselves.
Traditional schooling systems are based around fact learning rather than personal growth, and if you give these kids a long leash, they will use it to hang you out to dry or strangle themselves. Not because they are bad kids, but because they are so unused to the personal freedom they're on a high (but they will probably pass standardized tests with higher scores). So you can't give them a long leash. You do need to spy on their internet access etc. But you know, they're going to do what you don't want them to at the library or a friend's house.....
Oh I'm rambling. Let's get back to the OP
So help me out here... do parents have the right to control what their kids do on the internet in their home, on their computers, when the parents are paying the bill?
yes
Or do kids (teens of any age) get to do just whatever the hell they want and the parents are to stand by and let them have full run of the net??
this is not the opposite of the first question. Yes, parents have the right of full control. They can exercise that right, or they can let the kids do whatever they want, or they can find some midpoint.....
Ibram has been pointing this out for some time, but you have refused to listen because he is a teen and because he called you an asshole. Maybe you will also refuse to listen to me. I'm not going to call you an asshole, but I am a woman, fairly liberal/hippy in my outlook and also younger than you.
I think you need to clarify your questions to make a proper either/or scenario. So, do you want to ask
a) Do parents have the right to control internet access int heir house or do kids have a right to unsupervised internet access?
or
b) should parents spy on their children's internet actiivities or should they allow their children free range?
or both? They are different issues but you seem to have managed to equate them.
Actually I'm definitely not homeschooled; I've been to a grand total of nine schools in my life thus far, but not a single one of them have been at home.
If my parents had to deal with me all day they'd've kicked me outta the house ages ago.
You are that much trouble for mom and dad? :p
No, I'm just that abrasive of a person - I don't shut up. Ever. Seriously, I talk way too much.
Oh c'mon Ibram--your parents adore you, admit it.
I think my parents would have disowned me if I said more than 10 words a day to them.
So, you never tried it?
I always chicken out at nine words
LOL, then you're a duck ducken.
I think you need to clarify your questions to make a proper either/or scenario. So, do you want to ask
a) Do parents have the right to control internet access int heir house or do kids have a right to unsupervised internet access?
or
b) should parents spy on their children's internet actiivities or should they allow their children free range?
or both?
a) 1. Yes. 2. No
b) 1. Yes. 2. No
Kids have no rights until they adults. Other than a safe home and loving caring parents who provide them food and shelter. Other than that, if you are less than 18 years old in the United States, you have no "Rights" other than those directy afforded to you by the law and even than, most of those are trumped by parental control. Everything else is a privilege.
Yes, but you still have yet to address the point.
The question is not can you; the question is SHOULD you, and why?
You have still not answered that.
Yes, but you still have yet to address the point.
The question is not can you; the question is SHOULD you, and why?
You have still not answered that.
Ok, let's start over....
Yes I should because I should and have the right to know everything that is going on in my house and with my kids. I have a right to know if they are smoking pot, doing things that are putting them at risk for life altering events, be it either sex, drugs, drinking, etc. I have the right to take steps to intervene in those potential behaviors and do what I can to stop it or at least mediate it. The advent of the internet is the first medium where parents can lose complete control and supervision of their kids and all they are doing. Kids and teens have no rights, other than what I previously stated. Once 18, they have all the rights and responsiblities associated with adulthood. Hence they also will suffer the consequences of all behaviors.
Why are you still talking about this in terms of rights?
I dont give a fuck about rights, the point is not about rights. It's about decent courses of action, and why.
My position has been stated so many times that I'm sure I dont need to say it again. Yours is still "I do it because I can".
Please actually give some kind of justification, some kind of logical explanation for monitoring your poor kids like someone out of an Orwell novel.
Why are you still talking about this in terms of rights?
I dont give a fuck about rights, the point is not about rights. It's about decent courses of action, and why.
My position has been stated so many times that I'm sure I dont need to say it again. Yours is still "I do it because I can".
Please actually give some kind of justification, some kind of logical explanation for monitoring your poor kids like someone out of an Orwell novel.
You argue like my 16 year old kids did, circular. It is about safety and helping them stay out of trouble. I know you don't "give a fuck about rights". No teens "give a fuck" because they think they have some, they don't. The decent course of action for all parenting is trying to do what is the right thing to keep your kids safe and out of harms way. All teens do things which place them at great risk. Those are the things I want to attempt to mediate when those events arise. That
is the justification. My kids are not poor. Don't make assumptions about them.
So what youre saying is that your strategy of spying then intervening is superior to my argument that a parent should teach their child well and then trust their judgment?
So what youre saying is that your strategy of spying then intervening is superior to my argument that a parent should teach their child well and then trust their judgment?
Something you don't realize is that the best of your intentions as a parent will never lead to them using their judgement in the best way.
The assumption you have made is that teaching your child "well", whatever that is, is going to lead to them always making the right choices and using their best judgment. Ask every parent on here what "teaching your child 'well' is and you will get a different answer from each one. Ask any parent who has lost a child to a sexual predator, a teen pregnancy, a teen with HIV/AIDS, a child with a drug or alcohol habit, the one who died in a car accident or killed a friend, the child who committed suicide, ask them each if they thought that they were doing everything the best way they could and teaching them well enough to prevent all those acts, I would bet most would say they had.
Personally, I think the level of monitoring should depend on the age as well as the level of responsibility the child demonstrates in other areas. You can teach them, but have that proved that they've learned those lessons?
For example, my S18 (nearly 19) has had unsupervised use of the internet for 3 years now. But he is exceptionally responsible in that he doesn't smoke, drink, use drugs, break curfew or otherwise disrespect me. The only issue we've had with his internet usage is downloading viruses along with his game mods. We finally put him on a separate router and installed a ferocious firewall to protect the other PC's in the house. If he destroys his PC, that's his problem.
On the other hand, my D11 is far from responsible enough to surf or play online unsupervised. She clicks on everything (popups, etc.), has no idea what porn or unsafe sites are and thinks everyone is nice and wants to be her "friend" :rolleyes: . She is not allowed to visit MySpace or anything other than Disney, some Science sites, Wikipedia, and the TLC site. Someone is always looking over her shoulder while she's online.
By the way, I recently had a little talk with the miss and explained that this was MY house, as was everything in it. She does NOT have the 'right' to watch her TV when she likes, skip her chores, lock her bedroom door to keep me from bugging her about her homework (that lost her a doorknob), or play her Nintendo DS when grounded just because it is 'hers'. I have zero responsiblity to provide her with Nike shoes, take her skating, let her friends come over whenever she wants, or buy coca cola and doughnuts for her. Nope. Those are priviledges that she has to EARN by doing what I require of her...namely: good grades, respectful attitude, and doing as she is told, ie: her chores. She was pretty shocked, I think.
Good.
Stormie
Parenting is HARD. Being a teenager SUCKS.
One of the rudest awakenings a young parent experiences is the day when, after years of saying, "Ill never do [that] to my child,"--you do. Because it's necessary.
Let's face it: We are all at risk over the Internet, and it pays to be aware, from an early age, what things to avoid in order not to get into trouble.
Stormie
We had similar experinces. The 2 daughters are good to go and we rarely check up on either of them, and one not at all since she is off to college and we trusted her enough to get her a laptop that was all hers to do as she pleased. Now she is on her own and I trust her to make all the right decisions, she usually does. The youngest, daughter the same, we check on things every now and then and have never had any worries, so far so good. Most of what she does is stupid teen stuff, chat the same, nothing to get worried about.
The son, now that is another situation all together. :headshake He will be 18 and out of the house by the time he is 18 1/2, but until then he will be monitored. And oh btw, when he tries to BS us about what he is doing when it is something we disapprove of, we show him copies of his email or what ever. I have their MySpace access codes as well as livejournal. Once they are out and on their own, they are on their own. Until then...
Seriously, dude, you make me sick.
Spying on ALL his email, ALL his sites, ALL his passwords even?
I'd be outta the house the day I turned 18.
Merc does have a right to do that but if an authoritarian parenting style with 16+ year olds will result in many backlashes. I would personally avoid this type of parenting at this age unless it is absolutely necessary.
My parents trust me but I also have proved to be trusted, I can't say that about all my peers.
Seriously, dude, you make me sick.
Spying on ALL his email, ALL his sites, ALL his passwords even?
I'd be outta the house the day I turned 18.
You'd have been out long before that. But why don't you want your parents to know what is in your email? What is it about you that you are hiding from them? Why would you not want your parents to know what sites you visit? I mean seriously? They must trust you so that you should not be afraid of them seeing anything you do on the internet, right?
My parents trust me but I also have proved to be trusted, I can't say that about all my peers.
Well how about that. All behavior has consequences.
The biggest flaw I see in your argument is that you seem to fail to see that even your behavior will result in consequences. Parenting is a two way street. Your behavior will affect their behavior which will affect yours which goes back and forth.
I am NOT telling you how to raise your kids but I have seen enough to know what MAY happen. If you have your kids on too short of a leash, they will be more likely to rebel or not know what to do when they are out of the house. If you don't have a leash the same thing will happen. My expierences have favored the middle ground for teenagers.
The biggest flaw I see in your argument is that you seem to fail to see that even your behavior will result in consequences. Parenting is a two way street. Your behavior will affect their behavior which will affect yours which goes back and forth.
I am NOT telling you how to raise your kids but I have seen enough to know what MAY happen. If you have your kids on too short of a leash, they will be more likely to rebel or not know what to do when they are out of the house. If you don't have a leash the same thing will happen. My expierences have favored the middle ground for teenagers.
Well the mistake in your argument is that you don't understand that the I am trying to have consequence in their behavior. That is what parenting is all about.
The second mistake is that you have no idea what kind of "leash" we have our kids on. There has never been a discussion to date of anything outside of internet monitoring. Again, you like most of the people on here imagine something else.
If you don't have a leash the same thing will happen. My expierences have favored the middle ground for teenagers.
Right. My wife's father use to call this the box theory. Good behavior, larger box. Poor behavior, smaller box. It actually works very well, rewarding good behavior, and punishing bad behavior. Pretty simple actually.
Well the mistake in your argument is that you don't understand that the I am trying to have consequence in their behavior. That is what parenting is all about.
The second mistake is that you have no idea what kind of "leash" we have our kids on. There has never been a discussion to date of anything outside of internet monitoring. Again, you like most of the people on here imagine something else.
I wasn't trying to accuse of anything but that is what I got from your posts. You attacked Ibram without knowing anything about him so of course I will think that it seems you only see a one way street. I am sorry if I was wrong but that is how you came off whether my assumption was wrong or right.
I say parents should be kept on a tight leash. You never know when mom or dad will act up or wonder off in the market.
I wasn't trying to accuse of anything but that is what I got from your posts. You attacked Ibram without knowing anything about him so of course I will think that it seems you only see a one way street. I am sorry if I was wrong but that is how you came off whether my assumption was wrong or right.
I think he made the same mistake. The subject has never veered from Kids and the Internet. How I have raised my kids is not the issue. Somehow the subject, as most in any thread morphed. It morphed to parenting and the role and responsibilities of the parent, with kids and the internet. How I have raised the kids has never once come up in any of these discussions except in the context of the internet. Assumptions have been made, most likely by myself as well. I should not have done so.
I say parents should be kept on a tight leash. You never know when mom or dad will act up or wonder off in the market.
Funny you would say that. We had to put my mother, now 87 or something like that, in an assisted living home. Like kids, she is back on the leash.
birth, SEX, death. So the cycle goes.
I still don't see an end to this. Lemme know when Merc decides to grow up.
I think kids do have rights, no matter what their age. The most important right they have is to privacy. They also have a right to be trusted unless they prove themselves untrustworthy. They have a right to be proud of themselves because they've developed cognitively enough to know right from wrong.
Everyone has rights.
I still don't see an end to this. Lemme know when Merc decides to grow up.
I thought it ended a post ago. Merc admited to a mistake just like I did.
I think kids do have rights, no matter what their age. The most important right they have is to privacy. They also have a right to be trusted unless they prove themselves untrustworthy. They have a right to be proud of themselves because they've developed cognitively enough to know right from wrong.
Everyone has rights.
Maybe in your country or in your home. Kids have no right to privacy. Adults have a right to privacy. Kids have no rights other than what I mentioned earlier.
They also have a right to be trusted unless they prove themselves untrustworthy.
How are you going to know if any child/teen is trustworthy unless you have the ability to check up on them?
Why doesn't a kid have a right to privacy? I might have missed it, but I don't ever recall the argument of why.
I would say that it is a personal choice on how parents exercise a teens right to privacy and the parents choose what boundries to set, not the teen, on just how much privacy they may or may not set. There are so many factors which affect just how much privacy is or should be afforded to any minor child for which you are directly responsible for. Teens face many issues, drugs, drinking, speeding, suicide, drinking and driving, sexual behavior, pregnancy... all of these things place teens at risk. If a parent can intervene and help the child/teen make the right choices they may be able to avert a family/community disaster which could forever change peoples lives. In todays world of cell phones, text messaging, internet connections, etc, parent have lost an ability to help keep their kids safe. I still contend that a "kid" (minor) has no
right to privacy, but that in fact it is a
privilege afforded to the minor, as seen fit to the appropriate behavior of the child. Good behavior, greater privilege to privacy, bad behavior, then that privilege is appropriately modified as required. A fairly simple but difficult parenting responsibility.
Here are a few things to think about, as you will see the issue is complicated:
http://www.drheller.com/privacy.html
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/188919/coming_to_grips_with_your_teenagers.html
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20060208.html
http://uchicagolaw.typepad.com/faculty/2005/12/california_cour.htmlThere're legal rights...
and then there're rights as a person.
Denying someone their rights as a person on any account, be it age, sex, race, orientation... is wrong.
That, merc, is why you're an asshole. Because you believe in authoritarianism and you believe in stripping people of their rights.
There're legal rights...
and then there're rights as a person.
Denying someone their rights as a person on any account, be it age, sex, race, orientation... is wrong.
That, merc, is why you're an asshole. Because you believe in authoritarianism and you believe in stripping people of their rights.
You can't strip someone of something they don't have. You are still a kid/minor/teen and that is why it is something you can't grasp.
Once again we come to the difference between legal rights and rights as a person.
I believe it is the right of ever person to freedom, privacy, etc., and fuck the law if it doesnt agree.
You don't. You believe in authoritarianism and control.
So as a person do I have a right to not be felt up before I get on the plane tomorrow even though it is the law?
they dont touch you do they?
and if you ask me, yes, you do... but on the other hand, youre sacrificing your freedom and rights for security. Which is more important to you?
To me it's freedom, but sometimes I'll surrender a bit of it if it'll get me home or get me where I wanna go.
they dont touch you do they?
and if you ask me, yes, you do... but on the other hand, youre sacrificing your freedom and rights for security. Which is more important to you?
To me it's freedom, but sometimes I'll surrender a bit of it if it'll get me home or get me where I wanna go.
Then wouldn't you think it would be mercenary's right as a parent to decide how free or secure his children are? I disagree with how severe he is but I doubt he is doing for the purpose of being an ogre.
they dont touch you do they?.
Yes they do. I went to disney world last summer and I was pulled aside in the airport. The security felt me from top to bottom with her hands and then told me to take my shoes off.
The flaw comes in the fact that the internet, if you teach your kid (like the entire point of my argument revolves around), is not a threat of any sort.
That is true. I don't feel it is more of a threat than going to the mall, less in fact.
Quite a bit less; On the internet they cant come near you if you dont tell them to, in the mall they can just come up and grab you.
I subscribe to a different style of parenting to that described by Merc, and that works too. If you show trust, respect and honesty, kids will live up to it and return it. But it takes guts to cut the leash the first time, same as when you let them try the fireman's pole for the first time. You still watch them of course, and you're there to make sure it's not fatal, kiss them better, take them to hospital, but they perform the act without your safety net. I'd rather they did that when I was watching than behind my back or going crazy once they're out of my control.
My father tried the no privacy way. He never sees his grand-children.
There is not just one correct way, but there are people who are too pig-headed to consider that theirs is not the only way.
I'm done with this.
Oh and Ibram....
haha -that's how I feel about my kids which is why they're not nome-schooled. I thought iId read you were, but I guess with lots of chopping and changing it's effectively the same thing.
Nine schools? Pah! Well Pah-ish. On counting, I only went to eight. But it felt like at least ten. My record was half a day in one school. And one day in another. And no, I did not get expelled from either.....
From what I saw in college, where there were a great number of test subjects, the over-protected kids went in two ways when left to their own devices.
Half of them were very timid and missed out on fun. The harmful sort and the harmless sort too.
The other half went hog-wild, and skipped the harmless fun and went directly to the wildest craziest stuff they could find.
Could be that the biggest mistake is buying them their own system. If there's only the one "community" station, they learn the importance of sharing (which they probably won't truly learn until they have their own children) and the parent has a means of monitoring their activity without being too terribly intrusive.
um, so um . . .
how old should a child to get his/her own email address?
on second thought--
nevermind!
Hi Cloud!
I'm deliberately ignoring the shouting match over there... They have a good question, but I don't feel like getting into a fight right now.
But I do have some thoughts and suggestions for your question. How old? Well, there is no hard/fast rule of course. It's like all other child development milestones. I know that's no answer for you, so try this.
Get the email address. Get it with some name that they'll like, but which has no real bearing on their identity in real life. But consider the email address *your* email address, that they get to *use*. Do the youngsters live with you? Do you have physical control over their access to the email account? That would greatly simplify things.
Assuming you do have such control, I would explain to the child what an email address is, what it's used for, what it's *not* used for, and especially that I would be sharing it with them. Help them understand that you'll be able to see all the messages, in and out, and that you're letting them practice, helping them learn how to use it. The nice thing about a free email address is that it can be considered disposable, like a diaper. If it gets covered in crap, toss it. Until then it can be quite serviceable and cheap.
I haven't really answered your question about age, though, I know. I think early exposure to the technology is a good thing. But it must be done responsibly, and that's the reason for the little lecture above. It really isn't an age thing. If they're sufficiently mature to drive a computer, and make phone calls, then email is a reasonable expansion/combination of those two aspects of modern life. A youngster today will have far more such interactions than you or I will, and early exposure can lead to early fluency and early mastery.
I read somewhere that there are two classes of internet citizens, immigrants and natives. I am an immigrant. I come from the old country of bound books and pencil and paper arithmetic. Hand penned letters and busy signals on telephones. I've made my way to the digital shore and I'm flourishing here. I love this new country, and although I still have fond memories and some of the habits of the old country, there is no going back.
The kids in your life and in mine, however, are natives. They were born digital. Their future is digital. My acceptance of that fact helps me do a better job at understanding the world they'll inhabit as they grow. Denying that fact does a disservice to both parties. As a parent, as a responsible adult model for all the young people who are observing me and taking notes, I strive to engage these new technologies, not shun them.
As I help them learn (and learn myself) I'm acutely aware that mistakes will be made. I'm not afraid of mistakes, and a good thing, since they're so common and unavoidable to boot. But I am aware that my response to the mistakes is more important, and that's what I want to convey to the kid when teaching them about email. I agree that the stakes are higher now than when I was a kid. I had to worry about prank calls (or worry about getting caught making prank calls). Now there's cyber bullying, stalking, identity theft, child porn and online predators. Now that I think about it, maybe we should just chuck all these damn computers into the sea... maybe not. But that's all the more reason to *teach* them about how to use it.
And my teaching style is hands on. Try it. Use it. Ask about it. Ask them about it. Make mistakes. Correct the mistakes. But I don't believe I can protect them adequately indefinitely. Better they should learn how to keep themselves safe. You taught them how to cross the street safely, didn't you? And the stakes are certainly high with little kids in traffic... Same thing here. Hold their hand. Stop look and listen. Cross safely. Welcome to the digital shore.
Thank you, Big V, for your thoughtful post. You make some really good points here!
No, they are not my children and don't live with me. That doesn't absolve me, as a grandmother, of needing to watch over them!
You're welcome, and thank you for the kind remarks.
Of course you still have some responsibility for watching over them. But even though you're not in the house with them, you can still share an email address as I described above. Your ability to handhold them for all the other computer-y stuff is not easily done, but if you get some webmail kind of email address, say, gmail.com, there's no reason you can't set it up, give them the login, and share away. You still get to communicate with them via email, you still get to monitor what's being sent and received, and you still get to let them practice. Pretty good situation. I'd get the parents' input on it too, since they're a key factor in making it all work. With their buy in, you can accomplish much from a distance. Like demonstrating to your g-kids that that distance can be overcome with some tools, like email. All is not lost. You're all bound for the same shore, but you might be on different boats. Keep trying and keep us informed.
I subscribe to a different style of parenting to that described by Merc, and that works too. If you show trust, respect and honesty, kids will live up to it and return it. But it takes guts to cut the leash the first time, same as when you let them try the fireman's pole for the first time. You still watch them of course, and you're there to make sure it's not fatal, kiss them better, take them to hospital, but they perform the act without your safety net. I'd rather they did that when I was watching than behind my back or going crazy once they're out of my control.
My father tried the no privacy way. He never sees his grand-children.
There is not just one correct way, but there are people who are too pig-headed to consider that theirs is not the only way.
I'm done with this.
Oh and Ibram....
haha -that's how I feel about my kids which is why they're not nome-schooled. I thought iId read you were, but I guess with lots of chopping and changing it's effectively the same thing.
Nine schools? Pah! Well Pah-ish. On counting, I only went to eight. But it felt like at least ten. My record was half a day in one school. And one day in another. And no, I did not get expelled from either.....
I don't look at the net as the same thing as searching their room. I will not search his room, back-pack, etc unless I feel I've seen some behavior or evidence that leads me to think I need to. And then, only after a conversation that leads me to think he is lying to me, based on the information.
The net is outside of my home and the ability for me to make those kinds of decisions. I cannot see who he is bringing in and out of his room, how old they are, how much time they are spending together, spend some time with them myself (which
will happen) and what they seem like. I cannot call him on his cell and ask where he is and have him hold it up so I can listen, I cannot check the GPS on his phone/bracelet/car to see where he is surfing outside of my home.
Within his home he can feel safe and secure and trusted, his sanctuary, even from the way others treat him. That is why we treat him with respect and are polite to him. The golden rule applies in our home. We do not say
"because we said so" ever. It is a cop-out and cheap and causes a loss of respect. Do as I say and not as I do is for the lazy.
Within that sanctuary, his room should be a sanctuary from us, HIS place, and we do not enter unless we knock and that will continue permanent.
That terminal being in the home does not mean what happens on that screen is... it is not and should never be treated as such.
Those who feel that the net is not "real life" are fools on this topic and need to read more. Every single person who they are speaking to is a real person, every word typed is a real thought. Sadly, all too often, not by whom they say they are and for the wrong reasons.
Too many in every town know that young people need ego affirmation and are sexually charged. By using the latter to give them the former is a quick and sick way to get them to trust them and meet them, then to give them what they want from them, harming them permanently in a way that is so deep that I will speak of it no more, but to say that I know of it.
The WORST part of this is that the smarter your kid is, the faster and better this works on them.
That it is treated so causally by the young due to it's ease means it should be watched for their safety and nothing else. It is out of love and caring... not out of some militant form of desire for control.
Merc is the worst possible voice for this point of view.
That it is treated so causally by the young due to it's ease means it should be watched for their safety and nothing else. It is out of love and caring... not out of some militant form of desire for control.
Merc is the worst possible voice for this point of view.
HUGE Assumption. Huge.
"militant desire for control" is not something I ever mentioned. There is nothing militant about it. Except from the view of a few minors on here who have no parenting experience.
Merc, again and again you show your biases, your prejudices, and each of them tells me to feel sorry for your children.
Why can't you get it through your thick skull that just because someone's younger than you doesn't mean they arent a good deal smarter?
Merc, again and again you show your biases, your prejudices, and each of them tells me to feel sorry for your children.
Why can't you get it through your thick skull that just because someone's younger than you doesn't mean they arent a good deal smarter?
Because you consistently prove to me by your posts that you are like any other 16 year old I have met on-line or otherwise, and having been through three of my own, combined with the fact that you have no parenting or true life experience yet, that your comments reinforce that notion.
There are plenty of very smart people younger than me, none of them are minor children or teens.
Aaaaand he does it again. Nothing but prejudice, bias, and ageism from merc.
HUGE Assumption. Huge.
"militant desire for control" is not something I ever mentioned. There is nothing militant about it. Except from the view of a few minors on here who have no parenting experience.
The two statements were separate. The first was not about you. Though I can see how it seemed that way.
The reason I stated the second is because you are behaving like a bigoted jerk.
Aaaaand he does it again. Nothing but prejudice, bias, and ageism from merc.
The truth hurst doesn't it.
The reason I stated the second is because you are behaving like a bigoted jerk.
Bigoted to whom?
Bigoted against the young, even when they show you up completely and repeatedly.
Bigoted against the young, even when they show you up completely and repeatedly.
That is pretty funny. Bigoted against the young...
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
You do sound like my teen.
When are you going to slam your door? Poor persecuted teens of the world.
Yawn.
Troll, troll, troll.
It was fun tearing you apart, come back when you grow a set of un-discriminating morals and I'll try having a real debate.
Yawn.
Troll, troll, troll.
It was fun tearing you apart, come back when you grow a set of un-discriminating morals and I'll try having a real debate.
Spoken like a true teenager... :D Well done. Your peers would be proud. Come on back in about 17 years when you have teens of your own.... HA!
Bigoted to whom?
You are clearly the most vile kind of homophobe.
Originally Posted by TheMercenary
You are bi confused fag who is totally dependant on someone else for your life, your food, the roof over your head, and your 16 years of jerking off to the thoughts of your mommies titties will never trump my years of worldly expericence.
Now wipe that cum off your lips teen slut.
Originally Posted by TheMercenary
Kiss my ass teen. We happen to disagree on the fact that I, as a parent, can or cannot spy on my teens, in my house, on my computers, on my bill, on my time. That is the beginning and end of this issue. You as a teen are not amused that your parent has a right to spy on what ever you do... which I really care not for you personally, but for my kids I have every right to do what I want in my home, and some punk bi-fag teen has no say what-so-ever to do with what goes on in my house. You are a punk with no life experience and you are trying to tell me all about your moral life experience, of which you basically have NONE. So basically what I am telling you is fuck off punk teen.
Thank you, Thank you very much.... (Elvis)
I'm still waiting for you to come through on that ban, UT. Any time you're ready...
I'm still waiting for you to come through on that ban, UT. Any time you're ready...
I am still waiting for you to answer what you don't want your parents to know about what you do on the internet, what sites you visit, or what is in your email... what do you have to hide???
Nothing at all - excepting the occasional porn-surf and the cellar - which is exactly why they shouldnt (and don't) snoop. Why should they? It's not their business. I'm safe, I'm responsible, I'm mature, I'm trustworthy. Therefore, my parents act like reasonable people and leave me alone when they dont have to be meddling interfering jerks.
It's not their business. I'm safe, I'm responsible, I'm mature, I'm trustworthy. Therefore, my parents act like reasonable people and leave me alone when they dont have to be meddling interfering jerks.
[COLOR="Red"]Classic Teen Speak[/COLOR]
I love it!!!!
There are plenty of very smart people younger than me, none of them are minor children or teens.
Haha, I guarantee that I am a lot smarter than you Merc. I am more open-minded and I can argue without taking cheap shots at people. Not only that, but I know many people that are younger than me that I would consider smarter than myself making them smarter than you. I don't usually talk like this but you are really starting to piss me off Merc.
Haha, I guarantee that I am a lot smarter than you Merc. I am more open-minded and I can argue without taking cheap shots at people. Not only that, but I know many people that are younger than me that I would consider smarter than myself making them smarter than you. I don't usually talk like this but you are really starting to piss me off Merc.
Some pretty big ASS-You-mptions there my friend...
How can you guarantee that you are smarter than me?
How can you guarantee that you are more open minded than me?
You can argure without taking cheap shots?!?!?!? :whofart: Really now.... :rolleyes:
Let me see if I follow your logic...
You think you are smarter than me, so you know people who are younger who are smarter than you, so you think that because of that the younger people are smarter than me.... And I am pissing you off because I am calling you on your bullshit Ass-u-mptions.....
Hmmmmmm.... Ok.
You have shown your close-mindedness not only on this, but many other topics. You are unable to look at another view except your own.
You think you are smarter than me, so you know people who are younger who are smarter than you, so you think that because of that the younger people are smarter than me....
You can take what you said two ways but I will break it down for you.
Premise 1- I am smarter than you
Premise 2 - I know minors that are smarter than me.
Conclusion - There are minors that are smarter than you.
Valid argument.
That does not mean every minor is smarter than you, just that there are minors out there that are smarter than you.
You are not pissing me off because you are calling me out, you are pissing me off because you are close-minded (unable to look at any argument brought up by a teen), homophobic (calling Ibram a fag), ignorant racist (use of the term negro), and you look down upon people that are under the age of 20.
You have shown your close-mindedness not only on this, but many other topics. You are unable to look at another view except your own.
You can take what you said two ways but I will break it down for you.
Premise 1- I am smarter than you
Premise 2 - I know minors that are smarter than me.
Conclusion - There are minors that are smarter than you.
Valid argument.
That does not mean every minor is smarter than you, just that there are minors out there that are smarter than you.
You are not pissing me off because you are calling me out, you are pissing me off because you are close-minded (unable to look at any argument brought up by a teen), homophobic (calling Ibram a fag), ignorant racist (use of the term negro), and you look down upon people that are under the age of 20.
I am sorry, your argument lack validity. A premise is an "Assumption" aka " a proposition"... that is not a fact. Hence, everthing based on an unfounded premise is actually false. Nice try though...
You can break it down however it suits your needs. I understand your desire to feel as if you are correct in your ASS-YOU-mption. No biggie. You have take a very few exchanges and made huge ASS-YOU-mptions about someone you know nothing about with twice the life experience. A common failing. Please do carry on... this is quite entertaining..:D
How are you going to know if any child/teen is trustworthy unless you have the ability to check up on them?
By having open, honest and meaningful communication with them, and believe me, I don't mean the bullshit piss in my pants kind of communication that some people might think is meaningful.
The thing is, I am my children's confidant. They come to me first with their problems and challenges. I know them.
That's how I'm going to know if they're trustworthy or not.
Maybe in your country or in your home. Kids have no right to privacy. Adults have a right to privacy. Kids have no rights other than what I mentioned earlier.
Have a look at a few rule books Merc. You'll find children do have rights in your country and mine.
I'm pretty sure most parents feel their children have rights.
Definitely the right from assault.
They have the best right, the right never to talk to a parent's ass if they speak to them like that after 18.
By having open, honest and meaningful communication with them, and believe me, I don't mean the bullshit piss in my pants kind of communication that some people might think is meaningful.
The thing is, I am my children's confidant. They come to me first with their problems and challenges. I know them.
That's how I'm going to know if they're trustworthy or not.
I believe you and respect your right to parent as you see fit.
But let me ask one question. Not trying to pry here. How old is this kid that you are a conficant with? The age makes a huge difference. The communicative techniques and the childs desire to share with you, has in my experience and the experience of most people I know, decrease as they become teens and the peer group grows as a more important thing in their life.
Definitely the right from assault.
They have the best right, the right never to talk to a parent's ass if they speak to them like that after 18.
Absolutely. That has not happened and will not happen to us. I am sure of it.
I can't but be appalled at the turns this discussion has taken.
16 or 45--this behavior is juvenile.
I can't but be appalled at the turns this discussion has taken.
16 or 45--this behavior is juvenile.
Agreed. And my answer to the original question is that there is no set age. It's up to their parents/guardians as to whether they should have their own email address and if so, which type to pick (which is best at avoiding adult spam etc). It's up to you to decide whether their parents/guardians are likely to be able to monitor it appropriately before you suggest it.
Probably the younger the better, to be honest -when they are to young to know how to seriously rebel even if they wanted to. Skills learned young are skills for life. Make good behaviour a habit before it occurs to them to rebel and it'll be so much harder for them to hide rebellion from you (although make sure they know why they are doing what they are doing). Teach them how to spot spam and not to open it. Teach them about anonymity -don't open their email account in their name. Use the name of their favorite team or soft toy or book..... And make sure they use a communal computer and know to go to an adult the minute something comes up they don't recognise. Just extend their Safety Town "Stranger Danger" lessons to the internet. rkz is right that it's like real life, but he neglects to compare it to real life outside the home as well as in.
I believe you and respect your right to parent as you see fit.
But let me ask one question. Not trying to pry here. How old is this kid that you are a conficant with? The age makes a huge difference. The communicative techniques and the childs desire to share with you, has in my experience and the experience of most people I know, decrease as they become teens and the peer group grows as a more important thing in their life.
My oldest son is 11 and my youngest is 10. I actually mentioned that earlier in this thread.
All that info is freely available in any pop psych book.
If my kids do grow closer to their peer group, it doesn't mean that my relationship with them will become less. It also doesn't mean I can trust them less.
In my view, it's how you communicate with kids that makes the difference.
If my kids do grow closer to their peer group, it doesn't mean that my relationship with them will become less. It also doesn't mean I can trust them less.
Well I guess you will see eventually if that will be true or not over time. You hope that your relationship with them does not become "less", but in fact that is a part of them growing older and they will move away from you emotionally whether you want them to or not IMHO. If they do not they will never learn independence required to make it in the world.
Well I guess you will see eventually if that will be true or not over time. You hope that your relationship with them does not become "less", but in fact that is a part of them growing older and they will move away from you emotionally whether you want them to or not IMHO. If they do not they will never learn independence required to make it in the world.
That is not guaranteed. I know many kids that were very close to their parents throughout high school. Is it more likely the kids will stray away from their parents? Yes. But not guaranteed.
That is not guaranteed. I know many kids that were very close to their parents throughout high school. Is it more likely the kids will stray away from their parents? Yes. But not guaranteed.
It is kind of hard to discuss it in terms of "less" and "stray away". Sort of a personal thing between parents and their kids, usually based on the experiences the parent had with their own parents. I still submit that pulling away is common and expected. And then there is that whole dependency thing that goes along with the relationship. Most of the college kids I have know were dependent on their parents for quite a bit, well at least the parents who could afford to help them help(ed) them alot. Emotional dependency is another thing all together. Do you want to be your kids best friend or do you want to be their parent. I don't believe you can do both.
I think it is possible to be their parent and best friend but the chances are one in a million and would need compromise from both the kid and the parent which is more than rare.
I did stray away from my parents in high school but I still respected them and they respected me and I am happy how they raised me. I am a very independent person and even though my parents still support me financially, I am confident I can live on my own if I needed to without ever needing them again. But, I still plan to come to them for advice and because of friendship.
I think it is possible to be their parent and best friend but the chances are one in a million and would need compromise from both the kid and the parent which is more than rare.
I did stray away from my parents in high school but I still respected them and they respected me and I am happy how they raised me. I am a very independent person and even though my parents still support me financially, I am confident I can live on my own if I needed to without ever needing them again. But, I still plan to come to them for advice and because of friendship.
Glad to hear it worked out. There are so many possibilities. So many pitfalls. Even the ones who pull away eventually come back around after they become adults.
Okee dokee. I'll just slip in my 2 cents here and now.
When a child is born, he/she is dependent upon the parent for it's care and feeding and upbringing.
BUT---ALL children are born through no choice of their own. They didn't ask to be born. It was through an act of (usually) 2 other people. I believe this entitles them to certain freedoms and the presumption of guiltlessness unless proven otherwise just as a matter of courtesy for being forced into this world..
It is the parents OBLIGATION to keep them safe since THEY were the ones who forced this life on the child.
But it is my opinion that the parents do not have the right to control everything the child does.
And as a side note, calling ANYONE a "fag" is wrong and juvenile. Telling an known underaged person to "Wipe the cum off their face" is child sexual abuse. Use your head for something besides holding your hat up.
Well for one thing, I don't think my relationship with my children will ever be the same as it is with their peer group. It definitely isn't now, so why would it be at any other age?
Peer groups and parents give people different things. If a child is raised well, there's no reason for one relationship to suffer because of the other. There is room for both to co-exist and in some cases, to nourish each other. At the moment, this is what we have in our household. I plan on doing everything possible to make sure it stays that way.
I expect them to become independant, and I see them letting go of their dependance on me more and more every day. It doesn't make me sad. It makes me proud that I've raised children who're showing that they can be responsible and trustworthy even though they're still young. Why should I not expect things to continue in the same way? Why should I expect my kids to all of a sudden become secretive and deceptive? As a parent, it's my responsibility to make sure they feel safe and accepted enough to know that they can be honest with me and not be judged for it.
My mother was my best friend.
My mother and I are now living with my aunty and uncle for a while and my uncle has put some internet restrictions on me. He put something on my computer that slows browsing down. I'm not sure what it does but it's annoying. He also told me to stay off of myspace which I never use anyways. But worst of all he removed my emule and utorrent. :(
Okee dokee. I'll just slip in my 2 cents here and now.
When a child is born, he/she is dependent upon the parent for it's care and feeding and upbringing.
BUT---ALL children are born through no choice of their own. They didn't ask to be born. It was through an act of (usually) 2 other people. I believe this entitles them to certain freedoms and the presumption of guiltlessness unless proven otherwise just as a matter of courtesy for being forced into this world..
It is the parents OBLIGATION to keep them safe since THEY were the ones who forced this life on the child.
But it is my opinion that the parents do not have the right to control everything the child does.
And as a side note, calling ANYONE a "fag" is wrong and juvenile. Telling an known underaged person to "Wipe the cum off their face" is child sexual abuse. Use your head for something besides holding your hat up.
Yea, yea, I all ready mentioned that some statements were mentioned in error... Shit happens. "|:D
Why should I not expect things to continue in the same way? Why should I expect my kids to all of a sudden become secretive and deceptive? .
Great, come back in about 8 years and let us all know how it turned out.
My mother was my best friend.
Great, glad it worked out for you. That is not the norm. You
cannot be your childs best friend and be an effective parent. I stand by that statement.
You also can't be a complete dictator and still be an effective parent.
You also can't be a complete dictator and still be an effective parent.
Absolutely agree. Who says anyone is being a complete dictator? Not me...:eyebrow:
Great, come back in about 8 years and let us all know how it turned out.
Great, glad it worked out for you. That is not the norm. You cannot be your childs best friend and be an effective parent. I stand by that statement.
If I'm still posting here in 8yrs time I'll be surprised.
I never said it was the norm for parents to be their childrens best friend. I only said mine was. Are you suggesting my mother was not an effective parent?
Are you suggesting my mother was not an effective parent?
Not at all.
I am saying that parents who try to be their kids best friends are less effective as parents [b]IMHO[/].
I have kids ranging in age from 24 yrs old to 22 months. I've found that they will live up to or down to the level of your expectations of them. Give them trust and expect them to live up to it and they almost always will. Expect them to be rotten, lying monsters and that's pretty much what you'll get.
In my house, we don't call anyone derrogatory names. Fag, nigger, bitch, asshole, jerk, butthead or pig (yeah Alec, even pig) are not heard from my family. I've taught my kids that in order to receive respect, they must also offer it. Might does NOT make right. And insults are usually attempts to prop up a weak or nonexistant arguement.
Stormie
In my house, we don't call anyone derrogatory names. Fag, nigger, bitch, asshole, jerk, butthead or pig (yeah Alec, even pig) are not heard from my family. I've taught my kids that in order to receive respect, they must also offer it. Might does NOT make right. Stormie
We do the same. Other than the normal bickering that goes on in all families, and some minor name calling does occur. You do have bickering in your family don't you?
Of course.
But without namecalling.
If one of them tries to resort to bad-mouthing the other during the course of the bickering, I will usually shake my head at them and comment...........'weeeeeak!!, try that again using some REAL logic this time'.
Our bickering sounds more like a political debate since I've taught them that personal attacks are NOT ok and do nothing to strengthen your position.
Stormie
I'm new here, and I admit I didn't read through this whole thread, so forgive me if it turns out I'm echoing something that's already been said.
I have two kids. My son is 19 now and my daughter will be 17 next month. I have always been a gentle, loving, respectful parent to them. It has always been my philosophy to trust my kids unless I have some reason to believe that they are untrustworthy. I have never put restrictions on their internet use, and have not looked over their shoulders at what they're doing, checked their history palettes, or whatever. I do occasionally view my daughter's blog, but not for the purpose of checking up on her. Rather I do it to see what she had written in order to give me deeper insight into what's going on in her life and her thoughts.
If you were to ask them, they would tell you that they cannot recall a single time in their entire lives that I have ever yelled at them in anger. Both of them have turned out to be wonderful people, with big hearts and good heads on thier shoulders. They tell me often how much they appreciate the fact that I trust them, and communicate with them without talking down at them or taking an "I'm the adult, you're the child - you'll do what I say" approach.
My ex-wife has always been the opposite. As a result of our contrasting parenting approach, my kids know that they can talk to me about anything at all, and I won't fly off the handle at them. They tell me many things that they would never dream of telling their mother, and they often tell me that when and if they ever have kids, they will pattern their parenting philosophy after mine.
I consider that a success. See, if not a total failure :)
Absolutely agree. Who says anyone is being a complete dictator? Not me...:eyebrow:
Spying on your children's internet usage is like being a dictator...
I still ponder if you've ever read 1984...
I\'m beginning to wonder if my uncle spies on me as paranoid as he is. lol
Spying on your children's internet usage is like being a dictator...
I still ponder if you've ever read 1984...
Bull shit. It is being a responsible parent.
What person of my age has not read it?
I'm not sure, but spying on them and responsibility are two different things. If your logs haven't gotten anything bad, turn them off for a while, until they do something untrustworthy on the internet like looking up porn. Then you have a real reason to actually monitor their internet usage. Until then, you don't need to hide cameras and log their internet activity. (I don't think you'd really hide a camera, but you know what I mean.)
Just a thought from someone who's not had any children myself, but has been raising evenyone else's for the past 8 years. If other people trust me with their children, then my theories on parenting should carry some merit.
Ok, let just throw this out here...
I'm not sure, but spying on them and responsibility are two different things. If your logs haven't gotten anything bad, turn them off for a while, until they do something untrustworthy on the internet like looking up porn.
1) How do any of you judgemental fuckers know that something has not happened?????? Where in any post did I ever say that something did or did not happen???? Instead all of you fucks ASSumed that all was cool and that I am just a spying parent.... 2) Porn is not an issue. Ask IB, he thinks it is ok to look at porn and his parents not to know... don't ask me about porn, I don't really have an issue with it, but somehow or another I bet IB's parents may have an issue with the porn he is looking at.
Then you have a real reason to actually monitor their internet usage. Until then, you don't need to hide cameras and log their internet activity. (I don't think you'd really hide a camera, but you know what I mean.)
See the first part.... :rolleyes:
Just a thought from someone who's not had any children myself, but has been raising evenyone else's for the past 8 years. If other people trust me with their children, then my theories on parenting should carry some merit.
Just for the record, they don't...
Well if something has happened and you'd thought to mention it, maybe that would have helped us understand why your attitude seems to be so over the top?
Of course, you don't have to tell us anything. Just don't call us fuckers for responding to half truths in a way you find offensive.
Of course, you don't have to tell us anything. Just don't call us fuckers for responding to half truths in a way you find offensive.
And of course you can make judgements and second guess other parents till your face turns blue because you are so much better... good points.
Well if something has happened and you'd thought to mention it, maybe that would have helped us understand why your attitude seems to be so over the top?
Given the tone of your attitude toward me I don't think I need to share anything of a personal nature with you. You are a judgemental bitch.
You know, you keep getting chances around here and you just keep proving that you're just not a nice person.
I really feel sorry for you. You need help.
I did not say one thing in my previous two posts which required such a retort.
You know, you keep getting chances around here and you just keep proving that you're just not a nice person.
I really feel sorry for you. You need help.
I did not say one thing in my previous two posts which required such a retort.
Oh, please, you have been a bitch to me on here since I joined. Don't act all holier... I don't even have the time, the energy, or the desire to go back and post insulting quotes by you toward me.
Bottom line is this lady... you are just another person with another set of ideas no better than mine. Your parenting skills have not even been put to the test yet. Good luck, I wish you the best, but given some fairly neutral PM's by other parents on here, who wish not to post for one reason or another, you have not seen anything yet and should not judge those of us who have had different experiences than you have had.
You know, you keep getting chances around here...
Chances from Whom????? :celebrat: Who are you??? The President of the Welcoming Committee???
:queen:
yeah...that's it, I'm the welcoming committee. That's right. I welcome people. Even arseholes.
So welcome to you. :)
yeah...that's it, I'm the welcoming committee. That's right. I welcome people. Even arseholes.
So welcome to you. :)
Well thanks for making my point, bitch.
Go back and re-read your very first posts to me. You are a welcoming committee like the barb from a stingray to the chest. Well done..
Carry on.
Don't worry about that. ;)
OK, I've just had to come back to this thread and ask a question.
Was that stingray reference supposed to upset me? I'm figuring the answer is yes since you were in a bit of a lather at the time.
What I'm really wondering is why you would say something like that.
It's always interested me how much American's have embraced Steve Irwin and his antics.
Perhaps your understanding of culture could do with a once over.
You missed your target with that one.
OK, I've just had to come back to this thread and ask a question.
Was that stingray reference supposed to upset me? I'm figuring the answer is yes since you were in a bit of a lather at the time.
What I'm really wondering is why you would say something like that.
It's always interested me how much American's have embraced Steve Irwin and his antics.
Perhaps your understanding of culture could do with a once over.
You missed your target with that one.
Naw... I actually loved Steve Irwin. He will be greatly missed. I just thought it was something you could easily relate to since you can seem to relate to anything else I have said to you before. :cool:
Personal experience:
My parents let my twin brother and I use the internet with supervision for educational sites, games and school research when we were pretty little (maybe 6 or 7). I didn't have much interest in browsing for fun until I was 12 or 13, when my friends started using instant messenger and posting their own homepages and online journals. I have always been very close to my mom, and didn't have anything to hide (all I was posting were stories and poems I'd written, drawings, fangirl raving about my favorite authors, etc), so when she asked me about what I did online (which I remember her asking regularly) I showed her my page and told her the truth about what I was up to -- updating my page, chatting on IM with my friends, reading their pages and journals, and sometimes looking up things that interested me like fantasy writers or world music (I was a big nerd). I think my dad found porn sites in the history when my brother and I were 14 or so, though, because he started snooping on us openly. A couple of times he and mom confronted my brother about the porn, but he always got defensive and said that he clicked on it by accident or something, so they never really got anywhere.
The thing that really bothered me was that my dad would read our friends' journals and make jokes and comments about them based on what they wrote -- sometimes when they talked about sex and drugs (my best friend's cousin was in college and wrote about her adventures a lot), sometimes just because they were goofy and used a lot of silly memes and in-jokes. That felt like an invasion of privacy to me -- not because he was reading what they put online, but because he wanted to judge our friends based on internet posts taken out of context rather than on what they were like in person and what we said about them.
So, I think that it's good for parents to keep an eye out and ask a lot of questions to make sure that kids aren't being exposed to dangers BECAUSE of the internet (like hardcore porn, creepy adults who pretend to be 13, stalkers, etc) but not so good for parents to use the internet as a tool to find out what their kids are doing in real life. When my dad decided to do that, it made me feel like he didn't want to hear what I had to say, because he'd second-guess me with what he'd read online. And I think that the healthiest thing is for kids to want to talk to their parents if something is wrong or sketchy, not for parents to have to check with their own sources.
Of course, if the kid has real behavior problems that's a different story. If you know that your teen has a history of seeking out dangerous activities and people, monitoring his web histories could help keep him safe.
Naw... I actually loved Steve Irwin. He will be greatly missed. I just thought it was something you could easily relate to since you can seem to relate to anything else I have said to you before. :cool:
Ahuh. Whatever you say.
If you know that your teen has a history of seeking out dangerous activities and people, monitoring his web histories could help keep him safe.
I agree. Quite effective. No real behaivor problems per se, more like bad decision making.
Help me out here folks...
Is it ok for your teen to look at porn on your computer? and in the case of IB, gay porn. ????
Is that a rag in that gasoline bottle?
Is looking at porn (gay, straight, whatever) online different from the days of yore, when kids looked at porn magazines?
Is that a rag in that gasoline bottle?
Please can I coat it with superglue then light it while he's still holding it? What a troll. No wonder he has to exert such excessive parental control -his short-tempered paranoid name-calling aggression must have his kids hiding everything from him for fear of reprisals.
Help me out here folks...
Is it ok for your teen to look at porn on your computer? and in the case of IB, gay porn. ????
Why wouldn't it be? What will happen to them if they do? Or is it just BAD, no rationale required? Do share your wisdom. What will it do to them? Will it turm them into rapists or -worse still- make them gay?
I think when I have kids, when they get to be 13-14 I'll talk to them about porn -- not to say that they can't ever look at it, just that lots of people do but it has problems, some of the performers are exploited, and that it's REALLY REALLY not representative of real life. I think it's fine for them to look, as long as the first time my son sees a real-live vagina he won't be grossed out because it doesn't look like something he saw on fleshbot, and my daughter doesn't confuse actual gay people with yaoi characters.
I really think that my parents went about it wrong -- when they talked to my brother about porn, it was like "are you looking at this disgusting stuff?" Which sort of gets a reaction of "whoa, you'd really be happier not knowing, wouldn't you?" I don't want my kids to feel like they have to hide and lie to me. I'd rather that they understand that if they see something online that disturbs them, like child porn or pro-ana sites, that they'll be able to talk to me about it and understand that that's not what most people see as healthy.
All disclaimers apply, I do not have kids and am not planning to for at least four years, I don't even have a dog, etc.
You know, Merc, I was hoping to actually NOT attack you in my last drawn out post...
And it SICKENS me how you can just throw out something like that...As I said, I may not have biologically fathered any children, but I was stuck raising the little ones, and often. These children are turning out just fine. You can't give my argument no merit whatsover without sounding like a total dick, which after that, I believe you are little more than that.
I'd call you a man, but you need to grow the fuck up first.
Is looking at porn (gay, straight, whatever) online different from the days of yore, when kids looked at porn magazines?
Hell yes. Because the possibilities are unlimited. Your daddies playboy under the bed ain't nothing like it. And everyone of you knows that.:rolleyes:
You know, Merc, I was hoping to actually NOT attack you in my last drawn out post...
And it SICKENS me how you can just throw out something like that...As I said, I may not have biologically fathered any children, but I was stuck raising the little ones, and often. These children are turning out just fine. You can't give my argument no merit whatsover without sounding like a total dick, which after that, I believe you are little more than that.
I'd call you a man, but you need to grow the fuck up first.
ROTFLMAO!!!
:D :D :D
ROTFLMAO!!!
:D :D :D
a.k.a
I don't have a response so I will use this as a filler.
What the hell does gay porn have to do with anything?
a.k.a
I don't have a response so I will use this as a filler.
Or that it was just a bull shit response and statement that I found it quite funny. :D :D :D
Or I guess I could have just come back with another insult and we can start
another insult exchange... :)
All those folks with such vast parenting experience..... Heh.:eyebrow:
Ibram, in answer to your question about porn online. I don't think there's a whole lot of difference other than that it costs more if the person trying to view it happens to click one of those dial-in thingies that charge buckets of money.
The interenet is the new medium and carries with it all the risks associated with any new medium.
The important thing to me is the same as it's always been. Educate your children so they know the difference between right and wrong and can critically analyse what they're doing or looking at and give a reasonable explanation for it if questioned.
Men don't buy porn mags as much as they used to thanks to the interenet. What are little boys (or girls) supposed to giggle over with their mates now?
Ibram, in answer to your question about porn online. I don't think there's a whole lot of difference other than that it costs more if the person trying to view it happens to click one of those dial-in thingies that charge buckets of money.
The interenet is the new medium and carries with it all the risks associated with any new medium.
The important thing to me is the same as it's always been. Educate your children so they know the difference between right and wrong and can critically analyse what they're doing or looking at and give a reasonable explanation for it if questioned.
Men don't buy porn mags as much as they used to thanks to the interenet. What are little boys (or girls) supposed to giggle over with their mates now?
Would you approve of your teen boy checking out gay porn on the internet? Let's for the sake of argument that he starts checking this stuff out at the age of 14, now he is 16 and it is all ok? I wonder if Ib's parents know what kind of porn he is checking out on the internet? Hmmmm....
"What kind of porn?" What, you think that you can catch "gay" from porn?
Porn is porn. If a person is gay then they're likely to be turned on by gay porn I suppose, in which case that's an entirely different thread.
I don't happen to be of the belief that someone is going to 'turn gay' by looking at gay porn for example.
To answer your question though, I would expect my kids to look at porn, if in fact they haven't already done so. To believe otherwise would make me incredibly naive.
As I've said, my aim as a parent is to give them the tools to make the right decisions, not make all their decisions for them.
Porn is porn. If a person is gay then they're likely to be turned on by gay porn I suppose, in which case that's an entirely different thread.
I don't happen to be of the belief that someone is going to 'turn gay' by looking at gay porn for example.
To answer your question though, I would expect my kids to look at porn, if in fact they haven't already done so. To believe otherwise would make me incredibly naive.
As I've said, my aim as a parent is to give them the tools to make the right decisions, not make all their decisions for them.
Well I certainly agree with your statement that looking at gay porn is in someway going to turn them into a gay person, because I don't believe that is true, but that was not the question. The question was would you approve and allow your teen to do so?
I don't think it matters if I approve or not. They will find a way to do it if they want to, and quite frankly, I don't think porn is a big deal.
I like looking at it. I see no reason that my kids wouldn't. I don't believe porn to be evil and honestly, I think most of the people who post porn pics on 'free porn' sites are doing it because they like it, so I don't buy the arguments about degredation etc.
Of course I don't want my kids to 'get into' porn when they're young, but I do expect them to look at it. It's going to happen regardless of what I do or say, so as I said, give them the tools, let them make the right decisions.
Of course I don't want my kids to 'get into' porn when they're young, but I do expect them to look at it. It's going to happen regardless of what I do or say, so as I said, give them the tools, let them make the right decisions.
I don't want to misunderstand you... tool = internet. tool = how you bring them up. your teen looking at porn is ok because they are going to do it anyway. No?
The tools I'm refering to are knowing right from wrong, social conscience, good judgement etc.
Yes, they're going to do it and yes it's ok provided they have the 'tools' to recognise why they're doing it and what the possible consequences and or outcomes are likely to be.
As a note, I'd probably prefer that they didn't look at porn till they're a bit older, but as I said earlier, I think it'd be naive of me to believe they wont. History tells us all that kids will do these types of things for many different reasons, but one of the big reasons is the fact that they're taboo.
If I take those sorts of taboos out of the equation, I hope that they recognise porn for what it is instead of doing it because they think what they're doing is wrong.
Yes, they're going to do it and yes it's ok provided they have the 'tools' to recognise why they're doing it and what the possible consequences and or outcomes are likely to be.
As much as a teen wants you to believe that they have this capacity I am not sure that they do... But if you ask them, they are the smartest mofo's on the earth.
I'm fairly familiar with how teenagers think. I'm also aware that teenagers have a lot to offer and that it's what we do as parents which affects how they are as adults.
I don't see the point in treating a teenager as if they have no self determination when they obviously, and rightly do have self determination. A teenager, like any other human being, knows what they want, and if given the opportunity will be able to explain why they want it. They, like the rest of us, are products of their environment up until they are released from parental controls at which time they are answerable and responsible for and to themselves. It's at this time that the true indication of a good versus bad parenting becomes apparent.
I would rather over estimate than under estimate my child although I intend to make sure I do neither. It's nice just to know that they're doing ok and to see the outcomes of allowing them room to think for themselves.
I'm fairly familiar with how teenagers think. I'm also aware that teenagers have a lot to offer and that it's what we do as parents which affects how they are as adults.
I don't see the point in treating a teenager as if they have no self determination when they obviously, and rightly do have self determination. A teenager, like any other human being, knows what they want, and if given the opportunity will be able to explain why they want it. They, like the rest of us, are products of their environment up until they are released from parental controls at which time they are answerable and responsible for and to themselves. It's at this time that the true indication of a good versus bad parenting becomes apparent.
I would rather over estimate than under estimate my child although I intend to make sure I do neither. It's nice just to know that they're doing ok and to see the outcomes of allowing them room to think for themselves.
I respect that view and agree.
I respect that view and agree.
How does your method "allow them room to think for themselves"? This is not a challenge but a genuine question. You may call me a bitch/troll/whatever for asking if it makes you feel good, but I'd rather that than no answer as this seems so contrary to your previous posts. Curious.
And how is gay porn worse than straight porn? I have no real interest in either, so perhaps I'm not the best judge, but I've seen both and it didn't affect my sexuality.:ymca:
How does your method "allow them room to think for themselves"? This is not a challenge but a genuine question. You may call me a bitch/troll/whatever for asking if it makes you feel good, but I'd rather that than no answer as this seems so contrary to your previous posts. Curious.
I guess I could just coat their hands with superglue on a gasoline filled bottle and let them learn what it is like to get burned....:whofart:
Monster: Please can I coat it with superglue then light it while he's still holding it? What a troll. No wonder he has to exert such excessive parental control -his short-tempered paranoid name-calling aggression must have his kids hiding everything from him for fear of reprisals.
And how is gay porn worse than straight porn? I have no real interest in either, so perhaps I'm not the best judge, but I've seen both and it didn't affect my sexuality.:ymca:
I guess I don't think kids should look at
porn. Adults have the right to look at porn anytime they want. But I don't consider Playboy and artistic nudity porn.
Playboy is porn, just labeled soft-core porn nowadays.
Playboy is porn, just labeled soft-core porn nowadays.
I know that your man told you that after he poured gasoline in your glass and superguled it to your hand. Just watch where you put your fingers after that. I would hate to hear that you had a chemical burn in your crotch.
You have quite a vivid imagination, there.
Whoops...I was giving your imagination too much credit. Looks like you're confusing me with someone else. Pay attention, big dummy.
Looks like you're confusing me with someone else.
Well, ummmm, actually no, I wasn't.
So, ummmm, you're just insulting me with crass crap for nothing. How sweet.
You didn't answer the question, Merc..... You agree that kids should be allowed room to think for themselves, yet you don't allow that freedom for your kids. Which id your personalities makes the compromise in the real world?
btw, if you like the petrol bomb analogy, let's follow through.....you said
I guess I could just coat their hands with superglue on a gasoline filled bottle and let them learn what it is like to get burned....
But once you've superglued their hands to that can, will they go for the matches or the acetone and nail files? Or did you assume they'd go for the matches and light one for them to save them the effort?
Merc, you have been asked by several people why you think gay porn is worse than regular porn and you have not answered, any reason?
So, ummmm, you're just insulting me with crass crap for nothing. How sweet.
You get what you give.
Merc, you have been asked by several people why you think gay porn is worse than regular porn and you have not answered, any reason?
I was trying to say that I felt that teens should not look at
Porn regardless. I don't feel that gay porn is any worse than regular porn. Just that teens should not be looking at it. Most are going to see some anyway. And the days when we looked at some soft core porn is nothing like today where the internet has afforded the opportunities for teens to have unregulated access to everything available on the net. I doubt you will find many parents
who actually have teen children of their own who would approve of their teens looking at
porn on their home computers.
You get what you give.
But only when it's negative.
But only when it's negative.
Correct.
edit: I actually had a better explaination written but it sounded to much like a whine, so I will refrain. :D
You get what you give.
Is that right.
What exactly did I "give" to inspire your nasty little tirade? From where I'm standing, it looks like all anyone has to do is disagree with you.
I was trying to say that I felt that teens should not look at Porn regardless. I don't feel that gay porn is any worse than regular porn. Just that teens should not be looking at it. Most are going to see some anyway. And the days when we looked at some soft core porn is nothing like today where the internet has afforded the opportunities for teens to have unregulated access to everything available on the net. I doubt you will find many parents who actually have teen children of their own who would approve of their teens looking at porn on their home computers.
However, you specified gay porn and homosexuality several times, as though it were somehow different. Why even mention it?
However, you specified gay porn and homosexuality several times, as though it were somehow different. Why even mention it?
I think he's just trying to taunt Ibram.
Now there's a surprise.
Never.
the worst thing my parents ever told me was 'when a man and woman love each other they have sex to make babies'.
from my perspective, I see a lack of acceptance and understanding of human sexuality in our society at the root of this. our bodies are beautiful, sex is a beautiful thing. why the hell are we so embarrassed?
kids are going to look at porn. twice now i've reformatted my best friend's home pc because her 13 year old son is looking up boobies as soon as their backs are turned and fouls up the machine. my little brother looked at my dad's playboys. i looked at my dad's playboys. we were young enough that it wasn't a turn on so much as curiosity about the human body that we are so careful to hide.
as for gay porn... what's the difference? that YOU don't like it? it doesn't turn YOU on? the thought of it makes you uncomfortable? give me a break. homophobia is so overrated.
should 7 year olds be exposed to porn? of course not. but if your little man or little woman is growing hair where there wasn't any before, menstruating, or showing the signs of puberty, it's time to loosen the reigns a bit, let them understand sex and sexuality in an educational, comfortable environment, not one filled with shame and ignorance.
the worst thing my parents ever told me was 'when a man and woman love each other they have sex to make babies'.
from my perspective, I see a lack of acceptance and understanding of human sexuality in our society at the root of this. our bodies are beautiful, sex is a beautiful thing. why the hell are we so embarrassed?
kids are going to look at porn. twice now i've reformatted my best friend's home pc because her 13 year old son is looking up boobies as soon as their backs are turned and fouls up the machine. my little brother looked at my dad's playboys. i looked at my dad's playboys. we were young enough that it wasn't a turn on so much as curiosity about the human body that we are so careful to hide.
as for gay porn... what's the difference? that YOU don't like it? it doesn't turn YOU on? the thought of it makes you uncomfortable? give me a break. homophobia is so overrated.
should 7 year olds be exposed to porn? of course not. but if your little man or little woman is growing hair where there wasn't any before, menstruating, or showing the signs of puberty, it's time to loosen the reigns a bit, let them understand sex and sexuality in an educational, comfortable environment, not one filled with shame and ignorance.
You miss the point, as have others. The "porn" you looked at in your daddy's playboys are not representative of the "porn" kids can see on the internet today. Homophobia is not the issue. Those are lables people like to throw around to sack everyone together when someone disagrees with anothers views. Lots of generalizations are being tossed about.
creeps into thread, looks around, takes a deep breath, and . . .
NetLingo's 20 Top 20 Internet Acronyms Every Parent Needs to Know
not sure if these are real, common, limited to Internet, or also used in texting, but they are (speaking from a parent's perspective) a bit disturbing.
Nah, about 90% of those are bullshit, never used (or at least, never used by anyone with half a brain)
Nah, about 90% of those are bullshit, never used (or at least, never used by anyone with half a brain)
Agree 100%. HAHAHA, those are funny.
I think that is directed towards parents of 6th graders that cyber.
POS = Point Of Sale as far as I'm concerned. :)
The rest are just silly really. Where the hell do they come up with this stuff? Seriously?