Imus and Nappy-headed-ho's
When is Sharpton, Shabaz, and Jackson going to step up and apologize for the comments they made about the Duke players. Fucking double standard racist idiots. Typical.... Oh wait, I forgot, negros can't be racist, my bad. We can let Nazi mofo's protest in black areas of the country but we want to nail a radio host to a cross, who I really can't stand, for the same protected speech. Ha!
Let the flames be lit!
I really think the word negro should have fallen out of fashion by now merc.
You are right. Nobody should be racist. But.....the power differential between black and white is vast and historical factors don't just disappear because we buried two generations.
When a black man calls a white man by a racist epithet or makes racist comments......what does that really mean to the white man? What power has that comment over him?
When a white man does the same to a black man he is doing so from a position of actual, current and historical power. It wasn't so long ago that black men were being lynched in America at a rate of 3 a week.
Why do you continually defend the right of white people to be racist. Is there something you aren't telling us? Do you have a hood tucked under your bed?
Okay that was probably unfair. My apologies.
I really think the word negro should have fallen out of fashion by now merc.
You are right. Nobody should be racist. But.....the power differential between black and white is vast and historical factors don't just disappear because we buried two generations.
When a black man calls a white man by a racist epithet or makes racist comments......what does that really mean to the white man? What power has that comment over him?
When a white man does the same to a black man he is doing so from a position of actual, current and historical power. It wasn't so long ago that black men were being lynched in America at a rate of 3 a week.
Why do you continually defend the right of white people to be racist. Is there something you aren't telling us? Do you have a hood tucked under your bed?
I use Negro, because I do not support the self appointed term of "African-American".
We have developed a double standard in this country. Black rappers and so called leaders of blacks in American society can use any terms they care which are clearly racist and no one says a thing, PC response at it finest hour. But a dumb assed radio host says something stupid and everyone wants to hang him from the proverbial tree. The guy tried to atone for his fopaw, Jackson and Sharpton have both made highly racist remarks about Jews and Whites in this country and no one says a word. Rappers use "nigga" all the time, and that is ok? I do not support or condone what Imus said. Fine. But to carry on as if no negro's have made similar comments, some equally racist, and no one has the balls to call them out about it. This is a double standard.
No white hoods. :D
I just googled the story. I thought you were referring to some people as nappyheaded ho's. I am not familiar with the people or events.
Again, my apologies.
Okay that was probably unfair. My apologies.
No need to apologize. You are a good conversationalist and I respect your views, even when we don't agree on numerous subjects.
Negro was a term used by whites to describe africans. It denigrated them because it reduced them to the colour of their skin. It defined them in terms of their difference to all other races.
African Americans have every right to define themselves as they see fit. The vast majority of them are of African descent and are Americans. Why would you care how they define themselves? Why defend your right to use a term they find upsetting,abusive and derogatory? Does it harm you to respect their wishes in this? Why is our (white european and american) appointed term for them more appropriate than their own appointed term? They didn't call themselves negros until we told them thats what they were.
You are either African or American. Not both IMHO. I am an American of Irish/Scottish/Canadian descent. I am not an Irish-Scottish-Canadian-American. 90% of blacks in America are so racially mixed that there is no way to say who is who. People can define themselves as they see fit, it does not mean I have to agree or go along with it.
Then call them black Americans, or just call them Americans. Negro is an insulting term for you to use. The fact that they do not feel offended when a fellow black person uses that term ( though i suspect many are unhappy with that usage too) is based purely on the fact that it comes from an attempt by this generation and the last to declaw a word which had been used for several hundred years by their oppressors. Whether you agree with that or not, you must be aware that any time you use it around black people you are likely to cause offence. Are you happy to cause offence unnecessarily?
This is a subset of the American community which is still dealing with the scars of hundreds of years of abuse. Even the ones who are not descended from slaves will still feel that heritage, because it carried through across the whole of the white world. It also carried thyrough into Africa during the colonial and post colonial era. If they are still healing, and struggling to define themselves in the face of that heritage, who are we to deny them that right? To what purpose? In what way does it harm you ?
I have heard Irish people in England refer to themselves as paddies. Were I, as an English woman, to use that term with them that would offend them.
-blah blah blah-- we want to nail a radio host to a cross, who I really can't stand, for the same protected speech. Ha!
What "we" wants to crucify Imus? You got a mouse in your pocket?
Why do you object to a business decision? Do you think protected speech equals protected job? You don't strike me as the Union type, and Imus less so. Should those bushel baskets of tax dollars you paid be used by the government to pay for Imus' salary since he's not the moneymaker MSNBC thinks he should be? Who should be in charge of deciding if he may stay employed?
Then call them black Americans, or just call them Americans. Negro is an insulting term for you to use. The fact that they do not feel offended when a fellow black person uses that term ( though i suspect many are unhappy with that usage too) is based purely on the fact that it comes from an attempt by this generation and the last to declaw a word which had been used for several hundred years by their oppressors. Whether you agree with that or not, you must be aware that any time you use it around black people you are likely to cause offence. Are you happy to cause offence unnecessarily?
This is a subset of the American community which is still dealing with the scars of hundreds of years of abuse. Even the ones who are not descended from slaves will still feel that heritage, because it carried through across the whole of the white world. It also carried thyrough into Africa during the colonial and post colonial era. If they are still healing, and struggling to define themselves in the face of that heritage, who are we to deny them that right? To what purpose? In what way does it harm you ?
I have heard Irish people in England refer to themselves as paddies. Were I, as an English woman, to use that term with them that would offend them.
Well at least you recognize your own history of double-standards and the colonization of Africa. Your own history of oppression of the blacks in Africa goes back a long way as well, not to mention a myriad of 100 other countries. I don't take every chance to beat up England for the treatment they gave to my ancestors in Scotland or Ireland every time England or an Englishman stumbles in some speech. I do not deny the right of any people to call themselves what ever they wish, I reserve the right not to agree and call them what ever I want. It harms me not. It harms them not. Sticks and stones and all that…
What "we" wants to crucify Imus? You got a mouse in your pocket?
Why do you object to a business decision? Do you think protected speech equals protected job? You don't strike me as the Union type, and Imus less so. Should those bushel baskets of tax dollars you paid be used by the government to pay for Imus' salary since he's not the moneymaker MSNBC thinks he should be? Who should be in charge of deciding if he may stay employed?
The business decision was based upon a PC fear of a backlash by the organizations with the loudest voices among those who are trying to exploit this event for race baiting reasons, instead of letting the parties involved deal with the issue. But no, suddenly we have all these other parties getting involved in an attempt to exploit this as something larger than it is. The women of the Rutgers team are not defined by the statements of some idiot on a radio show. So much more is being made of this. The sooner people stop blaming others for their current situations the sooner people will advance on their own merits regardless of color. It is prison culture that is being advanced. There is no magical mythical white man keeping anyone down.
A business responding to its customer's preferences. No story here, move on people.
The sooner people stop blaming others for their current situations the sooner people will advance on their own merits regardless of color.
Shit, now you got me all confused. Who's side are you on again?!?
A business responding to its customer's preferences. No story here, move on people.
Shit, now you got me all confused. Who's side are you on again?!?
I don't support what Imus said, other than from a free speech stand point, the guy is a jerk, always had been.
I don't support this event being the cause of his firing.
I don't support the comments of Jackson, Sharpton, or Shabaz in their attempts to exploit this event, esp given their comments about the Duke players. They are igger idiots than Imus could ever hope to be on his worst day.
You are either an American or you are not.
There is only one race, the human one.
Your nose or melanin content does not mean shit.
Call me a name, since it has to do with Me, it is a compliment... I am awesome!
Imus has every right to say what he said, as do everyone to react the way they did.
I also agree the double standard for "minorities" is for bigots and fools. If it is not ok for one person, it is not ok for anyone and the reaction should be the same.
A cracker is a FL cowboy that uses a whip to drive cattle out of palmettos and scrub. I grew-up as one.
There are black, hispanic and white crackers... the term in the vernacular always confused me.
First, yes, there is a double standard against whites for use of words but the real double standard is against minorities. There is so much racism against minorities it is really embarrassing and you have the balls to complain about not being able to say a word? Do you have the balls to say this to a mostly non-white forum Merc because I can direct you to one if you want?
The fact that this double standard has made such a big deal proves of America's racism. If anything goes against minorities it is seen as normal or covered up while any double standard against whites is the worst thing in the world. If you want to end racism you will have to start with white supremacy because without that, you don't have any other double standards.
Well said pierce.
And Merc of course I recognise my own country's part in history. Nor am I beating on your country when I talk about its historic and current role in racial politics. I feel no guilt for my country's role. I do however recognise my country's role. Its simply a matter of history.
I already said this in unpopular opinions but the deal is, Imus was fired for the true ugly things he said about Clinton and Bush not the false ugly things he said about the Rutgers' women.
Imus was fired for the true ugly things he said about Clinton and Bush not the false ugly things he said about the Rutgers' women.
1970s Imus was hilarious.
Dr Billy Sol Harkness of the good Church of the gooey death; discount house of workship coming to you from Del Rio Texas-
I don't care if it rains or freezes
Long as I got my plastic jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car.
I could go 100 mile an hour
Long as I got the almight power
Right up there with my pair of fuzzy dice.
After an airliner was hijacked to Cuba, Imus called Cuba to negotiate a discounted purchase of a used 727. US State Department was not amused.
Those were the days when Imus, Soupy Sales, and Howard Sterm shared the same radio station. Amazing how hate in both radio (Rush Limbaugh) and music (hip hop) is now considered entertainment. Amazing that the color of one's skin now determines what that person can and cannot say.
Imus will be back on the air in a couple of months, you just watch. His co-host had already been fired and re-hired three times for offensive statements.
I feel no guilt for my country's role. I do however recognise my country's role. Its simply a matter of history.
This is the same way most whites feel in this country. I have no guilt about it either.
I'm surprised by this whole thing because I hear some of the girls at my school call each other worse names. I would have never known what he said was a racial remark if somebody didn't point it out.
First, yes, there is a double standard against whites for use of words but the real double standard is against minorities. There is so much racism against minorities it is really embarrassing and you have the balls to complain about not being able to say a word? Do you have the balls to say this to a mostly non-white forum Merc because I can direct you to one if you want?
The fact that this double standard has made such a big deal proves of America's racism. If anything goes against minorities it is seen as normal or covered up while any double standard against whites is the worst thing in the world. If you want to end racism you will have to start with white supremacy because without that, you don't have any other double standards.
I am not complaining about not being able to say a word. Yes, I have the balls to say it to anyone anywhere to their face. I assure you that I will say anything I have said here to anyone in person.
The fact that there is a double standard among blacks that no one wants to address is the issue. You can't have it both ways and ever expect advancement and equal treatment. I am all for ending racism. I want to see negros step up and admit and deal with it as well instead of exploiting this case, the Duke case, the Brawley case, and all other cases where people went over board in an attempt to make something huge out of an issue to further an agenda on race.
The fact that there is a double standard among blacks that no one wants to address is the issue. You can't have it both ways and ever expect advancement and equal treatment. I am all for ending racism. I want to see negros step up and admit and deal with it as well instead of exploiting this case, the Duke case, the Brawley case, and all other cases where people went over board in an attempt to make something huge out of an issue to further an agenda on race.
I agree. So does
this guy.
This painfully liberal human being agrees as well.
Someone called a comment into a local paper, saying: Imus is an equal opportunity insulter. That's true.
What those girls accomplished should not be minimized. The class they showed afterwards should not be minimized.
However, I feel they let some shock jock minimize them by even acknowledging a stupid statement made by someone who is irrelevant to them and their accomplishments.
Rkz has it right: color of skin is inconsequential in what kind of person you are. Why do we continually let others' idiocy have any bearing on what we really are?
I'm ready for flames, but this whole issue was just stupid. It was a stupid thing to say, it was stupid to overreact, and it's stupid to pretend that only minorities are discriminated against.
Pssst...Bruce Willis used the word "broad" referring to women last night on the Letterman show. He also made joking references to how many women he has bedded. I am abhorred, offended, downtrodden. He has demeaned my womanhood with his callous, uncalled for statements. I demand the immediate dismissal of Bruce from whatever contracts he has, I want his new movie pulled from the theaters, and his old ones from the DVD store shelves. I want a public apology, though that won't be enough. I want him stripped of his title "Maxi-Mega Super Star." He has lessened the fact that I was born with a vagina, and goddammit, I'm not going to take it anymore! :right: Don't even get me started on Howard Stern's attitude towards women (the shock jock, not the "not Anna Baby Daddy" guy.)
Do you consider it appropriate to call black people negros?
Do you consider it appropriate to call black people negros?
In the 60s, it was the preferred term, and "black" was considered offensive and racist.
Ever heard of the United Negro College Fund?
true enough. But this isn't the 60s. It's not about the inherent offensiveness of a word, it's about whether or not it's acceptable to use a term which the group in question finds offensive and which was originally externally imposed upon them.
No, it's about a person choosing to use a term deemed offensive by a group and what the repercussions should be, and in what cases those repercussions should be employed.
Sorry, I wasn't talking about the radio guy....I was talking about merc's insistence on referring to African-Americans as negros.
I am not complaining about not being able to say a word. Yes, I have the balls to say it to anyone anywhere to their face. I assure you that I will say anything I have said here to anyone in person.
I wasn't trying to make it a challenge but if you are really telling the truth then I have a little more respect for you. I know of a lot of white that will talk shit about how they are getting the short end of the stick but once a minority shows up, change their views to the other side.
The fact that there is a double standard among blacks that no one wants to address is the issue. You can't have it both ways and ever expect advancement and equal treatment. I am all for ending racism. I want to see negros step up and admit and deal with it as well instead of exploiting this case, the Duke case, the Brawley case, and all other cases where people went over board in an attempt to make something huge out of an issue to further an agenda on race.
I don't have a problem with acknowledging the problem but it is when we start calling white and black racism equal when I have the problem. They are completely different and different types of racism, white is proactive while minority is reactive. That means black racism is caused by white racism.
Also, if you want to get into it, most of black racism against whites is made by whites. Record companies, white, basically make the songs for the black rappers nowadays so it is the whites that promoting black racism against whites to make money.
And about the negro comment, I have heard many blacks find that very offensive. You don't have to say African American but just say black. Negro is too close to n****r.
Whoops, double post, delete this please.
Also, if you want to get into it, most of black racism against whites is made by whites. Record companies, white, basically make the songs for the black rappers nowadays so it is the whites that promoting black racism against whites to make money.
I strongly urge you to re-read the column Beestie pointed to.
I want an apology. Not sure what for, but it sure as hell seems like everyone else is getting one, so I want one, too.
And, I want bunny rabbits on my bib.
Not long ago rosie o'donald made fun of chinese people and she didn't apologise nor was she kicked off of the view for it. So why is this man being condemned and she wasn't?
Sorry Hyoi.
And the bunny rabbits ? :sniff:
the apology is never enough, is it?
And the bunny rabbits ?
I ate them. They made a great stew.
At the risk of further reperations:
After watching monty python and the holy grail, I don't think I would want rabbits :p
I strongly urge you to re-read the column Beestie pointed to.
I did. It makes a good point but only covers one of the many problems regarding this larger issue. To think that all of the minorities problems are minorities' fault is just as stupid as saying that all of it is from white supremacy. But while the article does make a very valid point on how this shouldn't be a big deal it has nothing to do with the point I am trying to make.
I think everyone here can agree that all of this controversy and talks of double standard is receiving too much attention because it isn't that big of a deal. But where is the controversy whenever a double standard happens against blacks or other minorities? How many topics on here are from white supremacy screwing over the lower class and other minorities? Do we see that as normal or do we think that they have progressed enough and we should stop worrying about it now?
The thought of only talking about the double standard against whites proves that we have an even deeper standard against minorities by not further fighting for their rights. There is still racism in this country and world and no matter how much we want to push it aside, we have to fight this battle to the end. We should work together to get rid of this monster, not fight against each other for it.
The thought of only talking about the double standard against whites proves that we have an even deeper standard against minorities by not further fighting for their rights. There is still racism in this country and world and no matter how much we want to push it aside, we have to fight this battle to the end. We should work together to get rid of this monster, not fight against each other for it.
Well said Pierce. The battle against bigotry and racism is far from won.
The article was taking the extreme side; that all minorities problems are caused by minorites is the other extreme to the side you were taking:
Also, if you want to get into it, most of black racism against whites is made by whites. Record companies, white, basically make the songs for the black rappers nowadays so it is the whites that promoting black racism against whites to make money.
At any rate, I still haven't received reparations from either whities for what they did to my Native American peeps, or from Bruce Willis for fucking too many women and being a general horndog. :rolleyes:
Not long ago rosie o'donald made fun of chinese people and she didn't apologise nor was she kicked off of the view for it. So why is this man being condemned and she wasn't?
Haven't you heard? It is okay for one minority to insult another minority!!
The article was taking the extreme side; that all minorities problems are caused by minorites is the other extreme to the side you were taking:
Either extreme side is wrong. No matter how much everyone helps the inner city nothing will happen unless everyone in there works to help themselves too.
At any rate, I still haven't received reparations from either whities for what they did to my Native American peeps, or from Bruce Willis for fucking too many women and being a general horndog. :rolleyes:
Reparations are tough because the people that screwed over the Native Americans are long dead. Before jumping to conclussions, what do you think you should happen?
And the people who held African-americans in slavery must be MUCH older than I am.
That's my point. I don't expect anything to happen. And I don't demand apologies and firings every time I hear the racist words Injun, squaw, scalpers, redskins, or savages.
Jumping to conclusions? Not sure I catch you; I think you've used the word "conclu[COLOR="Red"]s[/COLOR]ion" out of context (better apologize now.) But here is a pic of
Humbug jumping to the Island of Conclusions just for you:
Haven't you heard? It is okay for one minority to insult another minority!!
But Rosie isn't a minority, she is white.
But Rosie isn't a minority, she is white.
and gay.
and gay.
But what does that have to do with racism?
It has to do with being a minority
Sometimes I think Rosie just sticks her nose into these things (recall her recent feud with the Donald) just for the free publicity.
I don't have anything against Rosie but it seems like she always shows up when there's some extra cameras around.
And he'll have to swim back; we know that.
Last night on the Nightly News they spoke with Maya Angelou (who I have had the honor to see in person twice.) She spoke about what Imus said being a sad thing to say, but went on to berate rappers, et al, for degrading women. I can't speak as eloquently, but I was pleased that she didn't go the Sharpton route, but didn't back away from the issue either. That woman is a class act.
I have a lot of respect for Maya Angelou, and reading her autobiographies did help me see a difference between racist assumptions made by blacks against whites and those made by whites against blacks.
I'm not saying it applies to anyone of any age, but certainly the world she grew up in and what she had to face, I'm surprised her views have mellowed to the extent they have.
She's a good argument for tolerance and integration as a way of changing prejudices.
Getting back to Don Imus, he has always been a jerk. On the other hand I thought his comment was about actions and self determined appearance. I contrasted the Rutger's five that were mostly in the game with three black commentators on Meet the Press yesterday. These three (2 men and a woman) were well groomed in professional buisness dress. The future doctors and lawyers on the Rutgers team were some of the roughest and unsportsmanlike players since the infamous Minnesota team. They were tatooed and scruffy looking and I am sure it was an intentional "look" similar to the "gangsta" look of the hardest hardcore rappers. They were not trying to look like future doctors and lawyers (and I'll take your bets that not one of the starting five ever becomes a doctor or lawyer). In short, they looked like a bunch of n_____, h_____, h__. I won't deny the racist overtones of the comment, but it was a fairly accurate discription, in the Black venaculare, of what one saw, and the tough image that THEY intended to project.
I use Negro, because I do not support the self appointed term of "African-American".
...
If you and an African American were standing next to each other, what can I call
you that would differentiate the two of you?
Merc would be "nappy-headed ho" and the other guy would be MISTER Nappy-headed ho"? :p
pourbill, just out of curiosity, how old are you? I am probably in the same age group as the Rutgers girls (I'm 21 and would still be in college if I hadn't graduated early). To people our age, tattoos aren't really seen as a marker of roughness or "bad-girl" status, they're just another kind of decoration. I have absolutely known young women with tattoos who are hard-working, ambitious and civic-minded, as well as some who are not.
Obviously athletes on the playing field are not going to look well-groomed, polished or conventionally "feminine." They are there to get sweaty and kick butt! Plenty of college athletes have gone on to "respectable" careers despite not looking professional when they are actually playing.
I doubt that anyone who saw W. cheerleading for Yale looked at him and thought "By George, that man's going to be President of the United States one day!" :)
edit: And even if they were rough or unsportsmanlike (I can't confirm or deny that myself, anybody?), that doesn't really justify "hos." The term "ho" refers to a promiscuous woman. Now, for all I know some of them might be promiscuous (they are in college) but it's still an inappropriate and gross sexual remark.
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2007/04/16/71560
So Don Imus has been fired from both his radio and television show a week after he called the Rutgers women's basketball team "nappy-headed hos" during a discussion of the team's play in the national championship game. What more can possibly be said about this incident?
For the past week and a half since Imus made the comment, he has been national news with everyone weighing in on the matter. For this reason, I originally was not going to write a column on the subject. However, I changed my mind yesterday when a female friend of mine argued that Imus would not have been fired if he had avoided using the adjective "nappy-headed" to describe the team. In other words, she argued that it was the overt racism of his comment - rather than its overt sexism - that was the problem for most people. Thinking about this, I believe she is probably right. In particular, if one examines the form the debate took within the media, it is hard to disagree with this assessment.
First and foremost, note the way in which nearly all the mainstream media debate was focused on the single sound bite of "nappy-headed ho." This ignores that this comment occurred within a longer discussion in which the main point was to overtly sexualize the players on both the Rutgers team and the Tennessee team that they played. The "girls" from Tennessee were "cute" while the "hardcore hos" from Rutgers look "exactly like the Toronto Raptors," or "The (Memphis) Grizzlies." Imus' producer at one point even argued that the two teams reminded him of the Spike Lee film "School Daze" with the Rutgers team as "The Jigaboos" and the Tennessee team as "The Wannabes." This comment occurred right after Imus himself said the Tennessee team "all look cute," thus what his producer was insinuating was that they were "less black," and thus, more attractive.
This might very well be the first time you've heard the entire context of the conversation, as opposed to simply the single sound bite. By reducing discussion in this way, much of the overt sexism of the conversation is lost in favor of a discussion that centers the single phrase. In other words, what was lost was that this conversation was designed to "put the ladies in their place" by reminding them that, no matter what they've done in life, they can always be objectified and sexualized by a group of men who are afraid of them and their accomplishments. Because of this, both teams deserved an apology. However, because the majority of the conversation was ignored, no one thought to ask why Imus was not apologizing to Tennessee as well as Rutgers.
Secondly, as another example that the sexism was not the problem, note that when the subject did come up within the mainstream media debate, it was by Imus himself when he tried to use it as a defense. Namely, Imus and his defenders relied on the "black rappers say 'ho,' too" argument whereby they argued that the culture writ large is sexist, so they cannot be held responsible for their sexism. This attempt at dodging accountability for his own words is laughable, but the overall point Imus unintentionally raises is a good one. Namely, there is an element of American culture that now encourages men to bond across racial lines in their objectification of women. Thus, elite white record company owners, black rappers and the Don Imuses of the world can come together to "put women in their place." This message then filters down through the culture, sending the message that sexism is not only fine, but valued by those in power.
This tolerance of sexism - which has been ignored or excused in the Imus incident - needs to be addressed in the same way as the racism of his words. Feminist columnists and bloggers have been doing this, but within the mainstream media one continues to hear overwhelmingly male voices that, by and large, choose not to address the sexism of the comments. This is regrettable, because this moment could have been a chance for progressive women and men to not only acknowledge the sexism which pervades American culture, but also to put forth new definitions of what it means to be masculine, definitions which do not rely on a the need to continually reassert male supremacy through the denigration of women.
This article brings up a good point about a double standard with sexism and not racism.
Very thought-provoking article. I especially agree with the description of sexualizing language being used to "put women in their place." I have seen so many conversations among men about Hillary Clinton, Ann Coulter, Condoleeza Rice, Nancy Pelosi and other powerful and influential women come down to "But would you do her?" It's an obvious and stupid defense mechanism against the idea of a woman having power.
Hime, I wasn't picking on tatoos as such, though there are tatoos and then there are tatoos, it's just that if you style yourself after Dennis Rodman you can't expect comparisons to Lil Bo Peep. As far as calling names goes, it's my guess Imus thought he was styling himself after some black celeb such as Chris Rock or one of the current crop of Rappers. I would never try to justify calling someone a "ho" if it were meant to call them a "ho" as opposed to trying to sound "with it". It hurts, but you are correct, I am 64. I have dated a few ladies younger than I am who have sported some artwork without finding it offensive. I have to admit I felt it was tasteful and generally outside of public view. One was a small butterfly just about to alight upon a bush. I really loved that one.
BTW, I found the comment FAR more insulting to women than to blacks. I too will not use the "American" term.
Also, the night the last idol was kicked-off she was asked about the comment one of the judges (Simon) made about how she was normally dressed (scantly) and how it was her tactic to stay in the competition, particularly that night. Being that she was very scantly dressed and more made-up than usual. Her comment was that it was "Latin night, so..." implying that dressing like a ho' was normal for them I guess.
I waited for the uproar... still am I guess. It offend me. Funny, I'm not easily offended, but am seeing a lot more of a casual attitude toward comments like these toward women these days. Particularly from women, makes me sad.
BTW, I found the comment FAR more insulting to women than to blacks. I too will not use the "American" term.
Also, the night the last idol was kicked-off she was asked about the comment one of the judges (Simon) made about how she was normally dressed (scantly) and how it was her tactic to stay in the competition, particularly that night. Being that she was very scantly dressed and more made-up than usual. Her comment was that it was "Latin night, so..." implying that dressing like a ho' was normal for them I guess.
I waited for the uproar... still am I guess. It offend me. Funny, I'm not easily offended, but am seeing a lot more of a casual attitude toward comments like these toward women these days. Particularly from women, makes me sad.
Was she wearing something that looked like a latin dance costume? They tend to be on the skimpy side -- as almost all dance costumes do, because you want to be able to see the movements.
If not, then yeah, that's pretty questionable -- although I still hate how Simon disses the women for showing skin. Since when is modesty an important trait in a pop singer?
Maybe her only exposure to Latin culture is Telemundo.
If you and an African American were standing next to each other, what can I call you that would differentiate the two of you?
Not my problem and not important to me.
OK, let's try a different tack:
You are mugged. The police need a description. Now, I know you won't say your assailant was a nappy-headed ho, but what would you tell an African-American officer if your assailant was also African-American.
Officer, he was a big strappin' negro like you.
OR:
Um, he was tall, and dark ...with dark hair and dark eyes (so they think you're referring to Geraldo Rivera).
OR:
He was a non-white (then prepare yourself for beating)
OK, let's try a different tack:
You are mugged. The police need a description. Now, I know you won't say your assailant was a nappy-headed ho, but what would you tell an African-American officer if your assailant was also African-American.
Officer, he was a big strappin' negro like you.
OR:
Um, he was tall, and dark ...with dark hair and dark eyes (so they think you're referring to Geraldo Rivera).
OR:
He was a non-white (then prepare yourself for beating)
I don't think it matters. Black, negro, who cares. Most people use black (skin color). The very next question will be "how black?". Been there, done it.
Not my problem and not important to me.
Ok, you cracker offay honkey.
I don't think it matters. Black, negro, who cares.
Well I think we can be adequately sure not you.
Was she wearing something that looked like a latin dance costume? They tend to be on the skimpy side -- as almost all dance costumes do, because you want to be able to see the movements.
If not, then yeah, that's pretty questionable -- although I still hate how Simon disses the women for showing skin. Since when is modesty an important trait in a pop singer?
No, and it was not
that skimpy, just some shorts a black bustier (sp?) with a semi-transparent full shirt over it.
She was not being overly provocative either. I suspect he is attracted to her, a young girl... FAR too young, and is projecting.
The sad thing is that her performance left much he could have spent his time criticizing
legitimately.
Well I think we can be adequately sure not you.
What an absolute discovery. :fumette:
Very thought-provoking article. I especially agree with the description of sexualizing language being used to "put women in their place." I have seen so many conversations among men about Hillary Clinton, Ann Coulter, Condoleeza Rice, Nancy Pelosi and other powerful and influential women come down to "But would you do her?" It's an obvious and stupid defense mechanism against the idea of a woman having power.
I think you're giving men too much credit here with the idea that they are intentionally trying to keep women down... I think they're just horny. I've seen plenty of men discussing the thoughts and philosophies of Clinton, Coulter, et al. and when that conversation fizzles out, what's wrong with asking "would you do her?". Are women "in power" no longer sexual creatures? Are men supposed to pretend that they don't size all women up that way?
I don't see Imus' "sexist" remarks as being any different than if I were to comment on the nice asses of the wide recievers during a football game. I'm just not that into football and the mind wanders, kwim?
I think you're giving men too much credit here with the idea that they are intentionally trying to keep women down... I think they're just horny. I've seen plenty of men discussing the thoughts and philosophies of Clinton, Coulter, et al. and when that conversation fizzles out, what's wrong with asking "would you do her?". Are women "in power" no longer sexual creatures? Are men supposed to pretend that they don't size all women up that way?
I don't see Imus' "sexist" remarks as being any different than if I were to comment on the nice asses of the wide recievers during a football game. I'm just not that into football and the mind wanders, kwim?
I don't think it's intentional on the part of most men, I think it's a subconscious reaction to the fear of women in power. And it's different when it's accompanied by thoughtful discussion, as you said -- I'm more thinking of the guys who talk as though a woman has no worth if she isn't sexy, like if someone quotes Madeline Albright and he says "ew, that troll?" That's a fear reaction, and it is misogynistic.
And on the other side, I presume from your comments that you are a woman. Have you ever known a guy who clearly had no respect for you, but wanted to get into your pants, so he wouldn't listen to what you said but would constantly fawn over you for being attractive? I have been in that situation more than once, and I find it extremely demeaning. When I am talking to you, I am not a "sexual creature," I am your fellow human being, and I expect to be evaluated on my ideas and talents, not on my rack or my hairstyle.
I think you're giving men too much credit here with the idea that they are intentionally trying to keep women down... I think they're just horny. --snip--
I don't think it's intentional on the part of most men, I think it's a subconscious reaction to the fear of women in power.--snip--
And the score at the end of the first inning: jinx 1, Hime 0.
And now a word from our sponsors.
Fear of women in power? Come on, seriously?
Fear of women in power? Come on, seriously?
Of course -- just look how much advice given by guys in the relationships section comes down to "come on man, you can't let her CONTROL you."
No one should be controlled by anyone else. That is outstanding advice.
No one should be controlled by anyone else. That is outstanding advice.
But 90% of the time they're not talking about real control, they're talking about letting a woman make any decision, even a relatively insignificant one. I've seen guys get upset because they are with women who make more money than them, because they are with women who are more attractive than them, because their bosses are women, etc. Just because you don't believe that *you* object to women in power does not mean that you speak for all men.
And if you're going to disagree with and ridicule everything I say, why don't you just put me on ignore?
Besides which, this site has a large enough component of kinky folks that I am sure that I'm not alone in saying that it can be fun and even liberating to be controlled. Few take into consideration the idea that it is possible for a man to have a submissive personality without being a "pussy."
Oh.. now that is different... I am very often extremly [COLOR="Red"]BAD[/COLOR]!
If you have issues with your SO making more than you, you are not a misogynist, you are a fool.
However, just because a guy thinks a woman is a bitch or disagrees with her does not mean it is because he is threatened by her or is a sexist. I often do and hate it when they jump to that conclusion it is cheap and weak.
It should not be done without a good reason.
Besides which, this site has a large enough component of kinky folks that I am sure that I'm not alone in saying that it can be fun and even liberating to be controlled.
Yes I too can call myself Al Qaeda if to recruit wacko of extremists. Would that make me a member of bin Laden's Al Qaeda? If I call myself Wendy, then I must serve hamburgers? If I wear diapers, then I want Ann Coulter to do me?
Would Ann Coulter call me a 'nappy assed ho'? Am I kinky enough for her? Or must I be more submissive? Thanks to CBS, I cannot call Imus for advise. Even the Governor cannot help me.
Would Ann Coulter call me a 'nappy assed ho'? Am I kinky enough for her? Or must I be more submissive? Thanks to CBS, I cannot call Imus for advise. Even the Governor cannot help me.
Damn - yesterday was the day when tw was all flippant and quirky and funny. And I missed it.
Have to wait until the next one now...
You know, in retrospect, that was sooooo obvious!
One that got Wolfowitz fired.