Man Jailed for health threat

I hate to see it happen but I fully support it. The guy is now in indefinate detention. CNN ran a piece about it today and they interviewed the guy on the phone.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/conditions/04/03/tuberculosis.confinement.ap/index.html

I can totally see how this might be necessary in order to protect the wider public; however, this bit I found a little difficult to condone:

Daniels has been living alone in a four-bed cell in Ward 41, a section of the hospital reserved for sick criminals. He said sheriff's deputies will not let him take a shower -- he cleans himself with wet wipes -- and have taken away his television, radio, personal phone and computer. His only visitors are masked medical staff members who come in to give him his medication.

To be in solitary confinement is a terrible thing. This man's only crime is not to wear a mask. having accepted that the state needs to secure him somewhere for the protection of the public, how is it that the state is then willing to treat this man worse than your average violent criminal? Why not let him shower? Why take away his radio, his tv and his computer? Why, since he is unfortunate enough to have contracted a virulent and most likely incurable disease, and will therefore possibly be in custody for the rest of his life, is he being denied even those vicarious connections with the outside world?

He contracted a virulent and most likely incurable disease then deliberately brought it to this country from Russia, where he lived with his wife and kids.
You want him?

I don't know why the TV and radio restriction but they would have to build a special shower, then decontaminate the water, to kill the TB before it goes into the public sewer system. Isolating him is the only way to prevent the disease from spreading.

If he's likely to be incarcerated for the rest of his life (as that artical suggests) then surely expecting him to live out his life washing with fucking wet wipes is a little on the inhumane side? He came back to his home country because when he contracted this dangerous, virulent disease, he was frightened and knew the country he'd been living in would not treat him humanely; he returned to his home country, in the belief that it would be better able to deal with the disease, and more likely to treat him humanely. I very much doubt that he came back believing himself to be incurable, or with the intention of spreading the disease.

The cost of rigging up a specialist shower should not prohibit treating this man (this victim of a horrible disease) humanely. There is no reason whatsoever why he shouldn't be provided with decent facilities to wash himself in, and some kind of entertainment to stop him going fucking mad. He hasn't murdered anyone, he hasn't fiddled any kiddies, what possible rationale could there be for treating him like a fucking animal?

Because he refuses to take precautions against infecting other people. They should in fact treat him not like an animal, but like the selfish asshole he is.

ymmv.

Are you really saying this man deserves to spend the rest of his life in solitary confinement, with no running water, no tv, no radio, no internet; nothing to remind him that he is still a part of the human race, still connected to the world in some way. The rest of his life. Selfish he may be, war criminal he isn't.

DanaC wrote:

He hasn't murdered anyone...

He tried. He was walking around in public, going to work, shopping, all the while "constantly coughing" and knowing full well he could spread his "dangerous, virulent disease." His excuse?

"I was 26 years old, you know. Nobody told me how TB works and stuff."

Bullshit. He left his wife and kids in another country in order to get treatment. He knew what he had, and that he was supposed to wear a mask.

DanaC;331986 wrote:

Are you really saying this man deserves to spend the rest of his life in solitary confinement, with no running water, no tv, no radio, no internet; nothing to remind him that he is still a part of the human race, still connected to the world in some way. The rest of his life. Selfish he may be, war criminal he isn't.

Wait a minute his future has not been decided yet. They have him locked up while they decided if it's worth the risk of him becoming a mass murder...... he certainly has the potential.
He has a lawyer and it will be settled in court. Until there is a decision, there's no reason to build a million dollar facility to house him.
Besides, it's better he stinks, like belling the cat.

You keep saying he came to his home country. We may have a legal obligation to allow him in the country, but it's not his home. His home since he was 11 years old is in Russia, where his wife and kids are.

Actually we don't know if, or how many, people he's already sentenced to death in his travels.

DanaC;331986 wrote:

Are you really saying this man deserves to spend the rest of his life in solitary confinement, with no running water, no tv, no radio, no internet; nothing to remind him that he is still a part of the human race, still connected to the world in some way. The rest of his life. Selfish he may be, war criminal he isn't.

Either that, or you could offer to let him live with you. Where's your compassion?

...As a way to remind you that you are part of the human race, we're going to put you in jail so you don't continue to harm the human race of which you are part.

*flips through constitution*

nope not there

*reads the bill of rights*

nothing here

*checking out ACLU site*

zilch

I'm sorry but I seem to have missed the line about tv, radio, and internet being basic human rights. could you point me in the right direction?

So you all think it's just fine that someone be left without even basic facilities for washing himself?

Either that, or you could offer to let him live with you. Where's your compassion?

That isn't an equivalent. I am not advocating letting him go. I am advocating not making his incarceration unnecessarily unpleasant. Tell me what benefit there is in not letting this man have a radio?

They should give him a TV, internet and an xBox. He can't spread the TB through any of that and he isn't a criminal.

duck duck wrote:

They should give him a TV, internet and an xBox. He can't spread the TB through any of that and he isn't a criminal.

Who's going to pay for it? Because it's not like they can give it to anyone else once he's done with it, it would all be trash. I'd rather the hospital spend its money on saving lives, not keeping assholes entertained.

DanaC wrote:

Tell me what benefit there is in not letting this man have a radio?

I bet there aren't any electrical outlets in the room at all. And you usually get shitty reception inside a big building like a hospital anyway.

Clodfobble;332260 wrote:

Who's going to pay for it?

Whoever is imprisoning him, of course.

I think I just wandered into the twilight zone. Who's going to pay for it? We aren't talking a flight to the bahamas here, we're talking about a radio, or a portable telly. More to the point:

He said sheriff's deputies will not let him take a shower -- he cleans himself with wet wipes -- and have taken away his television, radio, personal phone and computer.

We aren't talking about providing him with these things, we're talking about not confiscating what he already had.

I vote Dana gives him a sponge bath and then supplies all his needs.

Um. Jail is supposed to be really unpleasant. The theory is that you will change your ways and not be too eager to be re-incarcerated. At least, that's the theory in the US. YMMV in the UK.

I'll bet this guy was given many, many, many chances to conform. It's not like people get their jollies throwing other people in jail. The cops I know just wish everyone would act right so their job wouldn't be necessary.

It's also quite possible that his electronics need to be destroyed. Pity, that. I guess we could keep them around and take the chance that his deadly strain of TB just...uh, promises not to hurt anyone else.

Brianna;332275 wrote:

It's also quite possible that his electronics need to be destroyed.

No it isn't.

jesus, HM--school me in your ways. When I worked De-Contamination we rubbed all our mach's down-some were too gone to even care about. Anyway, glad you know best.

again, i say, JAIL/PRISON is meant to be unpleasant. Believe me, no one was more incensed than I to find that there were no Vera Bradley Gift Bags when I was a guest of Mont. Cty. Actually, the guy went out of his WAY to despoil my outfit with fingerprinting ink and a rather unflattering photo. (Actually, my mug shot is pretty damn cute.)

Brianna;332275 wrote:

I vote Dana gives him a sponge bath and then supplies all his needs.

Um. Jail is supposed to be really unpleasant. The theory is that you will change your ways and not be too eager to be re-incarcerated. At least, that's the theory in the US. YMMV in the UK.

I'll bet this guy was given many, many, many chances to conform. It's not like people get their jollies throwing other people in jail. The cops I know just wish everyone would act right so their job wouldn't be necessary.

It's also quite possible that his electronics need to be destroyed. Pity, that. I guess we could keep them around and take the chance that his deadly strain of TB just...uh, promises not to hurt anyone else.

blah blah blah... crime? What crime? What was his crime? He's in jail, right? For what crime?

still waiting...


nobody? nuttin?


Ok, his "crime" remember, was not wearing a mask. So, you're all saying that he should be imprisoned with grotesquely exaggerated restrictions to his freedom that would have been completely moot, had he worn his mask. Wear a mask==everything's cool. No mask==solitary confinement, no proper bathing facilities, no electronics, no end date for his imprisonment, etc. WTF?

Seriously. If it would have been ok for him to walk free with a mask, why is he Hannibal freakin Lecter in prison? The whole "I don't want our plumbing to get cooties" thing particularly irritates me. Do you have any idea how much harder it is to contain airflow than it is to contain wastewater? If this is really happening properly, his cell would have to have negative air pressure, and a set of airlocks, apparently they already have the HEPA filters, and a method for incinerating this medical waste. Plumbing isn't 100x harder. What's already being done for his wastewater? Is he peeing in bottles? Poopin in diapers? Spitting his toothpaste spit into a biohazard bag, or has the toothbrush been confiscated too? Come on.

Brianna;332286 wrote:

jesus, HM--school me in your ways. When I worked De-Contamination we rubbed all our mach's down-some were too gone to even care about. Anyway, glad you know best.

You decontaminate when removing something from quarantine. If you don't remove it from quarantine, you don't need to destroy it.

Brianna;332275 wrote:

Um. Jail is supposed to be really unpleasant. The theory is that you will change your ways and not be too eager to be re-incarcerated. At least, that's the theory in the US. YMMV in the UK.

Actually jail is also used to house people who haven't been found guilty yet. Technically he isn't supposed to be punished unless he has been found guilty. Once he's found guilty, then he can be defenestrated.

OK. I surrender. YOU guys take him.

what I've learned from your position: He is A-OK. There is No Crime. BigV? I only pray that you learn long before...Look. You're all Magical and Nothing will Ever Hurt You! Ever!

and PS-Troubleshooter? You ever been in jail? Yeah, they pretty much hate you. YOU THINK you are innocent before found guilty but if you've ever been there you KNOW thAT YOU ARE GUILTY BEFORE EVER FOUND INNOCENT.

God Bri, you don't half talk some right royal shite sometimes.

Brianna;332304 wrote:

OK. I surrender. YOU guys take him.

what I've learned from your position: He is A-OK. There is No Crime. BigV? I only pray that you learn long before...Look. You're all Magical and Nothing will Ever Hurt You! Ever!

and PS-Troubleshooter? You ever been in jail? Yeah, they pretty much hate you. YOU THINK you are innocent before found guilty but if you've ever been there you KNOW thAT YOU ARE GUILTY BEFORE EVER FOUND INNOCENT.

So Brianna, were you guilty? Sorry, I withdraw the question. Let me rephrase. Were you deserving of the treatment you received while in jail? Coz that's my point here. Jail or not, you should let a man take a bath.

The whole crime or not crime, that's kinda secondary for me just now. My point was that he's only IN JAIL cause he wouldn't wear his mask. Now he's like Cool Hand Luke but without so much fresh air and sunshine. Oh, and running water. Pffft.

Point of order: he's not truly in jail, he's in a room in the hospital reserved for strict quarantine and sick prisoners.

Ok, thank you for that clarification which I managed to miss on both readings of the article. But it only make my indignation stronger. Am I to understand that the HOSPITAL hasn't the facility to permit this man to bathe properly? Or, perhaps he has some other extenuating circumstances that exclude that ... privilege.

I think the circumstances which preclude his being treated like a human being are that he didn't wear the mask. I guess that's why they took his 'lectronics off him too. Oh...and he came back from Russia instead of staying there and accepting his fate.

Point comes to this--any takers for this guy? YOU want him coughing all over you and your kiddies? No? You fucking monster.

DanaC;332307 wrote:

God Bri, you don't half talk some right royal shite sometimes.

Yeah, sometimes I post when I'm drunk.

what's your excuse?

Uh huh.

eloquent!

:guinea:

Brianna;332563 wrote:

Point comes to this--any takers for this guy? YOU want him coughing all over you and your kiddies? No? You fucking monster.

How could he cough on me easier if he had a TV? The internet?

Happy Monkey;332645 wrote:

How could he cough on me easier if he had a TV? The internet?

The tv, I'm not sure about, but with the internet he could google you and find out where you live, then sneak over to your place of work and cough on you.

Not from quarantine. And that's the point. Brianna keeps saying "you take him", or "any takers", as if people were saying he should be released. People are just saying that if he has to be quarantined for the rest of his life, he should given certain amenities.

Brianna;332304 wrote:

OK. I surrender. YOU guys take him.

what I've learned from your position: He is A-OK. There is No Crime. BigV? I only pray that you learn long before...Look. You're all Magical and Nothing will Ever Hurt You! Ever!

and PS-Troubleshooter? You ever been in jail? Yeah, they pretty much hate you. YOU THINK you are innocent before found guilty but if you've ever been there you KNOW thAT YOU ARE GUILTY BEFORE EVER FOUND INNOCENT.

Ok, it's been a while since I've been here but I won't deal with hysterical tirade in response to a point of clarification.

I believe that he should be detained in some way until he is able to show the level of responsibility necessary to run loose in public.

You need to learn how to parse people's posts instead of inferring so much. You'll find that you'll be right more often that way.

Whatever happened to this guy - where is he now?

Well, dead or cured, one of the two.