rzkenrage's threads

lumberjim • Mar 27, 2007 9:10 pm
should have a section of their own. under current events. where he can post one line and a huge quote. every day. just an observation.
rkzenrage • Mar 27, 2007 9:11 pm
Go ahead and say what you really want to man.
lumberjim • Mar 27, 2007 9:22 pm
i think you should have your own current events section so that you can post current events threads every day.
DucksNuts • Mar 27, 2007 9:26 pm
Well, now I feel like a dick, since I just did the same thing :p
rkzenrage • Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
So the current section is what, inappropriate for me?
lumberjim • Mar 27, 2007 9:37 pm
don't get all offended here. I'm saying that you VERY OFTEN post threads that are: a cute title, a link, a large quote, and maybe one line of commentary. There is continuity. Seems to me like you'd be interested in having a regular column? as i said, just an observation. no more.
footfootfoot • Mar 27, 2007 9:43 pm
not lj, rkzenrage:

Nah, for you, the current section is so ten minutes ago. You should really have your own section. Hell, if it weren't for you, I'd really have little to talk about current events wise.

me: "And then there was this really huge hole, I think it was in china, but it had something to do with the comet that killed the dinosaurs..."

Ya see? I get it all fucked up. Your stories I can condense and quote.

"Another teacher banged one of her students. Actually several of her students. Elspode wonders why his teacher never banged him. Elspode? uhhh, he's this guy. Never mind."
footfootfoot • Mar 27, 2007 9:44 pm
lj why come you don't got no green light in your box? you hiding from us?
DucksNuts • Mar 27, 2007 10:00 pm
He's an in and out man :)

Typical
monster • Mar 27, 2007 10:00 pm
lj must have me on ignore

http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php?t=13687

[COLOR="White"](lj: did somebody just post?)[/COLOR]:p
DanaC • Mar 28, 2007 8:55 am
I don't see what's wrong with rk posting a link and a line about it. Everyone has their own style and their own way of approaching the Cellar. Me? I usually approach it drunk and fall down the stairs.
lumberjim • Mar 28, 2007 10:23 am
is it my history of being a hammer that makes you assume that i'm breaking balls?
DanaC • Mar 28, 2007 10:26 am
Must be :P

Was this then just an innocent suggestion on your part?
lumberjim • Mar 28, 2007 10:28 am
see post #6
lumberjim • Mar 28, 2007 10:29 am
ps, i have monster on ignore......did she say anything interesting there? or just self promote a thread of her own again?
DanaC • Mar 28, 2007 10:39 am
see post #6

Sorry, I think I must have been messing with the settings on my sarcasm detector again:P

Monster said
lj must have me on ignore

http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php?t=13687
lumberjim • Mar 28, 2007 10:50 am
yeah, your sarcasm detector is alllll fucked up....and your irony setting could use a once over too, methinks.
rkzenrage • Mar 28, 2007 10:58 am
I was under the impression that this was a place to discuss current events and things of interest and thought I had made friends here.
My threads are always invitations to discuss the topics openly and I have often been swayed or have completely changed my initial position based on the discussions based on the discussions here.
My posts are based on what is happening in the news and what is important to me just like anyone else.
Just like anyone else, I ignore those threads that do not interest me... just don't read them, and if I do and they don't interest me or I don't care to, I don't respond to them, it's easy.
However, I guess some can't leave someone they don't agree with alone, hence I am being singled out here and attacked elsewhere.
Just don't read the damn threads if you don't like them... or, if you think I'm harming the board with my grammar, or "something" (I can't think of it) get UT to tell me or ban me.
Shawnee123 • Mar 28, 2007 11:07 am
I like your posts, rkz, and as you say if the topic doesn't interest me I just skip it. There are many 5000 word posts that I don't even bother with.

And don't worry, perhaps being called out is better than being outright ignored; at least you know you're not completely invisible. Hell, I can't even get a rise out of the Merc; and nobody likes him! (Just joshin' ya, dude.) ;)

You just stay yourself and poo poo on the naysayers! :)
lumberjim • Mar 28, 2007 11:12 am
WTF?
TheMercenary • Mar 28, 2007 11:22 am
Shawnee123;327328 wrote:
I like your posts, rkz, and as you say if the topic doesn't interest me I just skip it. There are many 5000 word posts that I don't even bother with.

And don't worry, perhaps being called out is better than being outright ignored; at least you know you're not completely invisible. Hell, I can't even get a rise out of the Merc; and nobody likes him! (Just joshin' ya, dude.) ;)

You just stay yourself and poo poo on the naysayers! :)


:celebrat:
jinx • Mar 28, 2007 11:26 am
lumberjim;327334 wrote:
WTF?


I think Rage thinks you're in cahoots with xoB, who is giving him all kinds of shit in a different thread.



I like your posts too Rage. Doesn't matter to me where they are, I read by hitting the new posts button.
Undertoad • Mar 28, 2007 11:33 am
rk, I really admire your ability to fight on through your difficult situation. Tell me, when you are experiencing a lot of pain, do you find it harder to concentrate and read carefully through the threads?
lumberjim • Mar 28, 2007 11:43 am
jinx;327344 wrote:
I think Rage thinks you're in cahoots with xoB, who is giving him all kinds of shit in a different thread.



I like your posts too Rage. Doesn't matter to me where they are, I read by hitting the new posts button.


AH. i had not opened that thread. i'm still not readin it, but thanks....

rk....i wasnt giving you shit. ferreal. i'll go fuck myself now.
Spexxvet • Mar 28, 2007 11:49 am
rk, I would be prefer to read a synopsis of an article, in your own words, including your opinion, with a link, than the whole thing, without your opinion. :2cents:
Sundae • Mar 28, 2007 12:30 pm
I think it would be an interesting experiment to have a "News You Might Have Missed" thread. The articles/ links/ information would be there for people to read, and if comments developed into a discussion then all well and good.

RK - I am also more interested in reading your opinion than the actual articles. I do appreciate the news you make me aware of, which wouldn't have come to my attention otherwise, but I come here more for opinions than journalism. I may not often agree with your opinions, but one of the reasons the Cellar fascinates me is the different views on life I get to read here.

Without putting words into LJ's mouth I really didn't read his suggestion as "STFU RK" - it was a question re the way the Cellar is laid out, surely?
TheMercenary • Mar 28, 2007 12:37 pm
Sundae Girl;327388 wrote:
I think it would be an interesting experiment to have a "News You Might Have Missed" thread.

Aka, Current Events?
Sundae • Mar 28, 2007 12:41 pm
TheMercenary;327392 wrote:
Aka, Current Events?

No.
I am suggesting a separate area where people post entire articles that they think people might like to read. Current Events would then be used for threads where people give their opinion on current events, only linking where clarification or back up of facts is required.
lumberjim • Mar 28, 2007 12:45 pm
Sundae Girl;327388 wrote:

Without putting words into LJ's mouth I really didn't read his suggestion as "STFU RK" - it was a question re the way the Cellar is laid out, surely?


Yeah...like a suggestion of a nomination for a user forum....without coming right out and saying it. I'll learn to be less subtle in the future, and just come right out and say what the fuck it is that i'm thinking about. which reminds me.......

I think skysidhe wants me.
Shawnee123 • Mar 28, 2007 12:47 pm
lumberjim;327402 wrote:


I think skysidhe wants me.



Well, there's no accounting for taste. :rolleyes:
lumberjim • Mar 28, 2007 12:47 pm
you want me too.....take a number
Sundae • Mar 28, 2007 12:55 pm
Shawnee123;327406 wrote:
Well, there's no accounting for taste. :rolleyes:

How do you know how he tastes? ;)
Shawnee123 • Mar 28, 2007 12:57 pm
Sundae Girl;327412 wrote:
How do you know how he tastes? ;)


Hey, that sounds like one of Sheldon's double entendres!

lumberjim;327407 wrote:
you want me too.....take a number


Yeah, but I want everyone...I have no taste either, and I"m extremely mentally ill and desperate.
TheMercenary • Mar 28, 2007 1:04 pm
Sundae Girl;327398 wrote:
No.
I am suggesting a separate area where people post entire articles that they think people might like to read. Current Events would then be used for threads where people give their opinion on current events, only linking where clarification or back up of facts is required.
I don't really see the difference. I post articles. I post them because I hope that some people who have similar interests about the subject (current event) will read them and comment. The article itself is the starting point for discussion. What you are proposing is I go on and start commenting "hey did you hear about Astor's son stealing all that money?", and you say "WTF are you talking about?". I don't think that would work because an assumption is made that we are all reading, thinking, viewing the same stuff; we are not. I like the Brit papers because they are written above a 5th grade reading level and tend to have a more worldly view. I have subscriptions to The Atlantic, The Economist, among a bunch of other hunting, outdoor, and travel rags. So I doubt many on here have the same interests in me, in fact I count on the fact that they do not.
Sundae • Mar 28, 2007 1:12 pm
No.

My suggestion for a post in the Current Events thread would be a recognisable title ("Astor Millions Stolen by Son" or similar) which links into the point you are making by posting, or the interest you have in the article ("Rich Woman Ends Days Sat in Pee") etc etc

The a precis of the article - or the most relevant quotes, with a link to the whole article. Then your point, opinion, take on the matter.

I am not saying this is the best way to do it, or the correct way to do it, or that anyone should consider it as any more than my opinion. That's what I expect to see in Current Events, and in a News topic I'd expect to see articles offered with perhaps a sentence or two at the end.

I love the fact that the Cellar points me in the direction of different news from around the world. I'll take it any way it comes. Just clarifying what I meant.
rkzenrage • Mar 28, 2007 1:21 pm
Undertoad;327349 wrote:
rk, I really admire your ability to fight on through your difficult situation. Tell me, when you are experiencing a lot of pain, do you find it harder to concentrate and read carefully through the threads?


Sometimes; but, usually, at that point I am unable to type and/or really respond coherently. So, if I can get on, I just read and don't reply. I'll also tend to use a lot of humor when I'm in a lot of pain.
You may not notice, but I often miss days at a time.
This is when I am unable to be on.
TheMercenary • Mar 28, 2007 1:23 pm
The problem with snips of the article is that people tend to think you did not read the whole thing or that you are misleading/misreading the discussion because they may or may not agree with your take on the info. I prefer to post the whole article and bold the points I see as relevent to the point I want to highlight. Then either comment or join the discussioin as people post opinions.
limey • Mar 28, 2007 1:35 pm
rkzenrage;327429 wrote:
Sometimes; but, usually, at that point I am unable to type and/or really respond coherently. So, if I can get on, I just read and don't reply. I'll also tend to use a lot of humor when I'm in a lot of pain.
You may not notice, but I often miss days at a time.
This is when I am unable to be on.


I think I'm not the only one who notices when you're not around, rk.
rkzenrage • Mar 28, 2007 1:43 pm
TheMercenary;327430 wrote:
The problem with snips of the article is that people tend to think you did not read the whole thing or that you are misleading/misreading the discussion because they may or may not agree with your take on the info. I prefer to post the whole article and bold the points I see as relevent to the point I want to highlight. Then either comment or join the discussioin as people post opinions.


I used to do this... I was asked to stop.
Spexxvet • Mar 28, 2007 1:48 pm
Shawnee123;327413 wrote:
Yeah, but I want everyone...I have no taste either, and I"m extremely mentally ill and desperate.


You mean I might have a chance? :blush:
BigV • Mar 28, 2007 1:50 pm
TheMercenary wrote:
people tend to think


Yeah.... let'em. That is *the whole point*.

Let people read and think for themselves. I can distinguish between the poster's words and the quoted text. How is that a problem?
DanaC • Mar 28, 2007 1:56 pm
I used to do this... I was asked to stop.


I really don't understand why.
Happy Monkey • Mar 28, 2007 2:07 pm
There are copyright issues, for one.
DanaC • Mar 28, 2007 2:08 pm
ahh. Hadn't thought of that.
rkzenrage • Mar 28, 2007 2:09 pm
Saves a lot of space as well.
TheMercenary • Mar 28, 2007 2:23 pm
Happy Monkey;327468 wrote:
There are copyright issues, for one.


Who cares, as long as you post the original link? I don't.
Shawnee123 • Mar 28, 2007 2:31 pm
Spexxvet;327454 wrote:
You mean I might have a chance? :blush:


Darling, you're at the top of my desperate and ill list of crushes! :thumb: heheeee
Shawnee123 • Mar 28, 2007 2:32 pm
Happy Monkey;327468 wrote:
There are copyright issues, for one.



This is true, but I think most of us do try to remember to credit the source, whether it's in the written text or an embedded link.
Happy Monkey • Mar 28, 2007 2:40 pm
Most news sites don't have a "credit the source and it's OK" rule. Complete duplication without commentary is harder to defend as fair use than short exerpts.

I don't have any ethical issue as long as it's linked, but it could cause a hassle for UT at some point. Kos had to ban it, but of course that site is much higher profile.
Spexxvet • Mar 28, 2007 2:43 pm
Happy Monkey;327506 wrote:
... Kos had to ban it, but of course that site is much higher profile.


Outside the world of whale penis, that is.
Happy Monkey • Mar 28, 2007 2:51 pm
Well, of course.
elSicomoro • Mar 28, 2007 2:57 pm
The Church of the Whale Penis is still #1 at Google for "whale penis"...whoohoo!
Undertoad • Mar 28, 2007 4:50 pm
rkzenrage;327429 wrote:
I'll also tend to use a lot of humor when I'm in a lot of pain.
You may not notice, but I often miss days at a time.
This is when I am unable to be on.


Respect - and heart. I have read you discussing these things many times and when I read into your words, I have never read you feeling truly sorry for yourself, in all that time. You are sorry for the situation, but not sorry for yourself. That is what I admire the most. You da man, sir!!

What I read into LJ is that he was not trying to poke at you, that he was truly trying to work out what would be best. He doesn't poke at people - he is direct with them. So no biggie - no harm done and none intended, unless I'm wrong.

As for HM's point, the careful-eyed will notice that IotD is often a horrible copyright problem. But it's a strange one too, in that it's hard to have some sort of "fair use" on images, and huge numbers of people on the Internet take images wholesale. Most people figure that once an image is on the net it's "out there", but that's clearly not the case. So, I try to avoid some images from places like National Geographic where they have clearly spent a fortune on special photographers to get the shots, and I ask permission from individuals when they have created something.

I asked a group of wire service photographers about this and they said, just use 'em, don't go through the ridiculous process of getting the rights when everybody and their sister is passing the shots along anyway.
rkzenrage • Mar 28, 2007 6:21 pm
Thank you very much.
Namaste'
monster • Mar 28, 2007 10:05 pm
so my original issue was not about the content of the posts at all -whatever they quoted and however much of it and what opinion was given, but just that there seemed to be so many articles that were related yet in different forums, and yet the purpose of the forums seemed to be to keeps posts on similar topics in the same place. In other interweb worlds, the topics would probably have been moved to one place by a moderator. I was just wondering why not here. I can skip topics too, it's not a problem for me --as it happens I am interested in this topic, so I don't. Really not a criticism at all, just a wondering on the scheme of things. Cock.
WabUfvot5 • Mar 28, 2007 10:14 pm
TheMercenary;327489 wrote:
Who cares, as long as you post the original link? I don't.


Sometimes those articles disappear or get the URL changed. Common sense (which often doesn't apply) leads me to believe it's fair use, as we're not trying to draw away traffic or steal content.
Aliantha • Mar 29, 2007 2:23 am
I think rkz should just go ahead and do what he wants with the threads he starts, just as everyone else should.

If you're not interested then don't bother reading it.
Spexxvet • Mar 29, 2007 10:14 am
Aliantha;327746 wrote:
I think rkz should just go ahead and do what he wants with the threads he starts, just as everyone else should.

If you're not interested then don't bother reading it.


Actually, I'm interested, I just don't always have the time to read the whole article, so a synopsis of the pertinent parts helps me. I also want to know his opinion.
Beestie • Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am
Undertoad;327571 wrote:
What I read into LJ is that he was not trying to poke at you, that he was truly trying to work out what would be best.


I said the same thing to RKZ a few weeks ago. It was a comment on his style and not a comment about him. He was free to disagree and others were free to weigh in - that's how things are done here. Its not personal.

And I still firmly believe it is not appropriate to paste an entire article in this forum unless you make follow up points that require the reader to refer back to the text of the article. If you don't have anything to add then a simple link will suffice to bring the article to the attention of the Cellar and everyone can decide whether or not to click on it.

I agree with LJ and do not think anyone should have taken either his or my points on this issue personally.
BigV • Mar 29, 2007 1:47 pm
Spexxvet;327823 wrote:
Actually, I'm interested, I just don't always have the time to read the whole article, so a synopsis of the pertinent parts helps me. I also want to know his opinion.
I post this way, and will continue to post this way. But it's no guarantee my posts, or the excerpts, or the article will be read, as demonstrated in this thread.
Clodfobble • Mar 29, 2007 4:05 pm
I read that article, BigV. :confused:
BigV • Mar 29, 2007 4:20 pm
What did you think? I liked their marvelling at the simplicity of the experiment and that no one had tried it before. I think it offers some powerful empirical evidence that the two phenomena are linked.

But I was only being a little ... something... when it seemed to be ignored. I don't really worry that way anymore (used to, though.. very gratifying back in the day to be quoted. I still like it but I'm far less insecure about my place in the community now.) It just seemed interesting that the "polar coordinate filter" post was "serious". Maybe it was the visual+image vs text+link. Whatever.

On topic once more, I think excerpts are most appropriate. Sometimes with comment, a link is always helpful, bolding can help... Rarely does the whole article need to be reposted in my experience. But consider the source; I was once called a "link whore." Prolly still true. :)
Clodfobble • Mar 29, 2007 4:27 pm
I thought it was interesting, but it seemed to me that they didn't really explain the phenomenon at all, just show how it could be reproduced. The idea that it was a sine wave seemed to be a novel idea not presented in the Nature article.
BigV • Mar 29, 2007 4:55 pm
You're right. They didn't make any claim of explanation. Nice visual, though.

While we're on the subject of curves, I learned something very interesting and counter intuitive this weekend. How to change a catenary curve into a parabolic one? By loading it!

Look at the Golden Gate bridge for example. At the stage of construction when the towers were in place and the suspension cables were strung over the towers and secured in their anchors, they traced a catenary curve. Indeed, they displayed the textbood definition of a catenary. But if you look today, those cables are no longer catenary curves, they're parabolas!

Weird, I know. Just by placing weights evenly spaced on the cable (or chain) you change the shape. This was...unbelievable to me. I refused to believe it. My vector arithmetic isn't that weak. I reasoned that the links of the chain themselves were like weights and pulled downward, just as if the chain had weights! WTF?

Here's the catch. Look at the GG bridge so you can see the majestic sweep of the suspension cables. Hover in your helicopter so you're line of sight is perpendicular to the road way. Got it? Good. Notice the support cables, the ones that descend from the suspension cables to the deck are all parallel. Notice that they're spaced evenly. This was what bugged me. How is that load on the CATENARY cable different from no load at all. I could understand that the curve would be deformed if the load were asymetrical, say one honkin weight, not centered on the cable. *That* would change the shape, sure. But these neat, evenly spaced cables, each supporting the same amount of weight, the same load... how does that change it?

The catch is that the "weights", the load, is NOT evenly spaced on the suspension cable. Stay with me here. Notice that along the deck, the distance between each vertical support cable is the same. Notice that the horizontal distance between each vertical support cable is the same for each space from support cable to support cable. But, notice the distance *along the suspension cable* from support cable connection to support cable connection is different. The section of the suspension cable that is nearest the tower and angled the farthest from horizontal has connections that are farther apart when compared to the section of suspension cable that is near the center, close to the bridge deck, and more horizontal, where the connections of the support cables are grouped more closely together.

NOW I could see my mistake. The catenary suspension cable was NOT being loaded "evenly" despite my first impression. There was a higher concentration of the load along the center of the curve, compared to a lighter load at the ends of the curve/cable at the ends near the towers. It was being "pulled" harder in the center with this arrangement and it makes perfect sense (now) to see that this would deform the curve. D'oh! I'm happy now. :D
xoxoxoBruce • Mar 29, 2007 5:20 pm
That's the strangest thread bomb in history.