So... were we just going to avoid this one forever?

Walter Reed? What? I've never heard of Walter Reed! Nothing to see here, move along!

Have you been on the pipe Ibram?

I worked there one summer. Not in the hospital part, though, so I can't speak to the controversy.

My favorite doctor ever left his private practice to go work there, so I know they have at least one great doc.

I could Google this. But I'd rather hear the Cellar's take on it. Someone take pity on an ignoramus and explain please?

Two Washington Post reporters broke a story showing that the wounded soldiers who are being treated as out patients are being warehoused under horrific conditions. Rodents, rot, and mold are just three ways we say, "Thank you for your service." Complaints to the Army and to individual congresscritters were largely ignored until the spotlight shone on the situation.

The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.TJ

This all fits into the story of Bush Administration's attempted cost cutting during war-time and their over-all state of denial about the true cost of their war of choice. Meanwhile private individuals have funded the Center for the Intrepid among other facilities to serve the fallen.

Thank you kindly - I will do some background reading now.

Slightly OT, but I assume your quote is Thomas Jefferson. One of my heroes for the record, but he never encountered British tabloids. One of my main gripes with government today is that they are so sadly dependent on the media. If that had been the case at the start of the last century I doubt women would ever have got the vote (1918)

Griff;321632 wrote:
Two Washington Post reporters broke a story...

This is why the newspapers are still the best source of news on the planet and its a tragedy that they are slowly dying as the next generation doesn't subscribe and classified ad revenue disappears almost completely to Craigslist.

Griff;321632 wrote:
...This all fits into the story of Bush Administration's attempted cost cutting during war-time and their over-all state of denial about the true cost of their war of choice. Meanwhile private individuals have funded the Center for the Intrepid among other facilities to serve the fallen.

Not to mention their "Democrats don't support the troops" hypocricy. :mad:

Ibram;321549 wrote:
Walter Reed? What? I've never heard of Walter Reed! Nothing to see here, move along!

Thank you for making me feel invisible. :sniff:

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?p=320129#post320129

Spexxvet;321655 wrote:
Thank you for making me feel invisible. :sniff:

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?p=320129#post320129

He missed a bunch of commentary not just yours...

In fairness some of the patients were being treated as out patients, but being far from home they were allow to stay in some of the buildings that were scheduled to be eliminated. These buildings were not in good repair.

But.... but, but, but, the thing that makes me want to physically punish the administrators...severly, is the bureaucratic bullshit.
Treat a patient and leave him hanging on the results of tests, and no further appointments even though treatment will obviously be needed. And when he inquires they have no record of him or why he's there. Of course this is after making him fill out a stack of forms that threaten our forest reserves, often twice.
This is inexcusable, treating a wounded soldier this way. But, the fact that this happens to dozens of soldiers every day, is nothing short of criminal. Those bastards should be court marshaled. I'm serious, criminal malfeasance, treasonable dereliction of duty in war time. Leavenworth. :rar:

Spexxvet;321655 wrote:
Thank you for making me feel invisible. :sniff:

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?p=320129#post320129

You're being punished for not answering my question. :p
http://cellar.org/showpost.php?p=320125&postcount=8

I know first hand what the clowns at VA do. Just one of the last f!@#ups. Was suppose to have a Barium? enema 2 months ago. 3 phone call from them, 3 different directions for pre test. So they wouldn't do it. Next round I asked about 10 different people for written directions. My DR. sent them on 2/07/07 they were printed on the 27th, day of new test. I received them the 3/3/07. I got to pay for meds twice, extra trip to VA and it was all my fault for not following directions. bb
64

xoxoxoBruce;321663 wrote:
In fairness some of the patients were being treated as out patients, but being far from home they were allow to stay in some of the buildings that were scheduled to be eliminated. These buildings were not in good repair.

But.... but, but, but, the thing that makes me want to physically punish the administrators...severly, is the bureaucratic bullshit.
Treat a patient and leave him hanging on the results of tests, and no further appointments even though treatment will obviously be needed. And when he inquires they have no record of him or why he's there. Of course this is after making him fill out a stack of forms that threaten our forest reserves, often twice.
This is inexcusable, treating a wounded soldier this way. But, the fact that this happens to dozens of soldiers every day, is nothing short of criminal. Those bastards should be court marshaled. I'm serious, criminal malfeasance, treasonable dereliction of duty in war time. Leavenworth. :rar:

Ahem... waitaminit. Buildings scheduled to be demolished? From the BRAC decision? Or, already condemned buildings? Really, it's a trick question. There is NO EXCUSE!

If it's a live working building, but has accumulated deferred maintenance, fine. But if you (not you xob, the numbnuts fuckwit that assigned that housing) designate it as valid housing, then you damn well better make sure it's in good working order. If it was really condemned or "scheduled for demolition" then it's not appropriate to designate it as shelter, dammit.

This is textbook FUBAR by bureaucracy. Makes me want to hang my head in shame. And I find a certain schadenfreud from the hypocrisy of the "Support the Troops" dittoheads. Fuckers. :rar: indeed.

One of my main gripes with government today is that they are so sadly dependent on the media. If that had been the case at the start of the last century I doubt women would ever have got the vote (1918)

Actually, the print media played a huge role in politics throughout the latter half of the eighteenth century and on through the nineteenth. Political careers were made and destroyed in newspapers, though not as prolifically as now:P For example, in the 1760s a press war forced the Earl of Bute (the PM at the time) into the political wilderness and helped secure fame and power for one of his main critics, the radical politician John Wilkes. What gives the incident a seriously modern flavour though, is Bute's attempts to influence the public mood by rigging press coverage, hiring a gang of journalists to sing his administrations praises......the modern age didn't invent spin doctors:P Government secret service accounts from the eighteenth century show that thousands of pounds were spent during the early part of the 1780s in an attempt to use the growing medium of popular politics. But....the press and the public have always been difficult to control and it really wasn't any clearer back then, than it is now, who was wagging who :)

As to the tabloids.....if you have time or inclination check out the tabloid press of the nineteenth century, very Murdoch!....then take a quick peek at the middle-class fayre and you'll see a direct equivalent to today's Daily Mail nastiness and fear mongering (lots of stuff about the general degeneration of morals and health of the working classes the so called 'efficiency debate' and the loosening of society's control over girls and women).

It is well known that the VA sucks. It would only seem reasonable that the premiere facility of the VA/Armed forces would suck with a certain kind of panache.

hahah well that's one way of looking at it ;)

Previously posted and apparently ignored in Bob Woodruff's recovery images:

Even Rumsfeld's wife (brought in discretely by other volunteers) discovered how bad things were in Walter Reed - and could not get Rumsfeld to solve it. Once the stories about the contempt for soldier in Walter Reed were leaked, even volunteers were suddenly attacked by the Walter Reed bureaucracy.

Soldiers lying on mattresses without sheets - lying in pools of their own urine. Why no sheets? Money shortages - or what happens when pallets of $hundred bills are deliverd to Iraq and distributed without any accounting - to finance the insurgency that put that soldier into a pool of his own urine.

Even Rumsfled's wife saw what was happening and Rumsfeld did nothing.

tw;321772 wrote:
Previously posted and apparently ignored in Bob Woodruff's recovery images: Soldiers lying on mattresses without sheets - lying in pools of their own urine. Why no sheets? Money shortages - or what happens when pallets of $hundred bills are deliverd to Iraq and distributed without any accounting - to finance the insurgency that put that soldier into a pool of his own urine.

Even Rumsfled's wife saw what was happening and Rumsfeld did nothing.

That would be the VA, not Walter Reed. I worked there for three years. The inpatient care is top knotch, same at Bethesda. The problem was with the patients in Med Hold, the transition care between discharge and civilian life after an injury. Just to keep things straight...

TheMercenary;321774 wrote:
That would be the VA, not Walter Reed. I worked there for three years.

You have it completely backwards. That is Walter Reed. And when did you work there? Before Rumsfeld was 'fixing' the military? These articles are quite blunt about it. That was Walter Reed - it is that bad. VA hospitals are only now just getting scrutiny because things there are typically even worse. Remember Saddam had WMD even though facts said otherwise and reality was then perverted by anti-Americans. Anyone blowing the whistle in this George Jr era gets massacred - including the better generals who were 'ordered' to be ignored. Even Walter Reed is now that bad because 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. Those who tried to change things were 'transfered'.

I will be the most dispictable poster you have ever meet if it means choosing between being nice verses being honest. I have long been accurate about this administration’s contempt for the American soldier. Even Walter Reed is now that bad.

tw;321778 wrote:
You have it completely backwards. That is Walter Reed. And when did you work there? Before Rumsfeld was 'fixing' the military? These articles are quite blunt about it. That was Walter Reed - it is that bad. VA hospitals are only now just getting scrutiny because things there are typically even worse. Remember Saddam had WMD even though facts said otherwise and reality was then perverted by anti-Americans. Anyone blowing the whistle in this George Jr era gets massacred - including the better generals who were 'ordered' to be ignored. Even Walter Reed is now that bad because 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. Those who tried to change things were 'transfered'.

I will be the most dispictable poster you have ever meet if it means choosing between being nice verses being honest. I have long been accurate about this administration’s contempt for the American soldier. Even Walter Reed is now that bad.

The reports that I have read in the mainstream press talk about the VA, specifically on NPR. If you have sources please site them and I will read them. I am brutally honest. The care at Walter Reed is very good. The people that were in building 18 were in a MED HOLD status. I am sure that you know what that is and what it means to be stuck there. I will not make excuses for the failures, they are across the board in many facets of the system, they have been there for years. Funny how suddenly everyone is all interested in fixing what people have said has been broken since its inception. Outpatient care has been and is deplorable. Inpatient care is very good.

I stand corrected. There is one report being reposted all over the thread and on all the blogs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/28/AR2007022801954.html

Anybody here work in a hospital?

Yea, I know the place. I worked there a long time ago. Building 18 was a crap hole then. I believe the pic above is the General's house on post.

The stories I provided are Walter Reed. Yes - it is also in the VA Hospitals. They are probably worse because the reality about Walter Reed is not what you have posted. The contempt buy George Jr extremists for the American soldier is so bad that even Rumsfeld's wife could not affect change. Rumsfeld personally knew how bad things are in Walter Reed because she told him. And nothing changed. This adminstration's contempt for the American soldier it that egregious.

From the Washington Post of 5 Mar 2007:

'It Is Just Not Walter Reed'
Ray Oliva went into the spare bedroom in his home in Kelseyville, Calif., to wrestle with his feelings. He didn't know a single soldier at Walter Reed, but he felt he knew them all. He worried about the wounded who were entering the world of military health care, which he knew all too well. His own VA hospital in Livermore was a mess. The gown he wore was torn. The wheelchairs were old and broken.
"It is just not Walter Reed," Oliva slowly tapped out on his keyboard at 4:23 in the afternoon on Friday. "The VA hospitals are not good either except for the staff who work so hard. It brings tears to my eyes when I see my brothers and sisters having to deal with these conditions. I am 70 years old, some say older than dirt but when I am with my brothers and sisters we become one and are made whole again." Oliva is but one quaking voice in a vast outpouring of accounts filled with emotion and anger about the mistreatment of wounded outpatients at Walter Reed Army Medical Center.
Ray Oliva went into the spare bedroom in his home in Kelseyville, Calif., to wrestle with his feelings. He didn't know a single soldier at Walter Reed, but he felt he knew them all. He worried about the wounded who were entering the world of military health care, which he knew all too well. His own VA hospital in Livermore was a mess. The gown he wore was torn. The wheelchairs were old and broken.
"It is just not Walter Reed," Oliva slowly tapped out on his keyboard at 4:23 in the afternoon on Friday. "The VA hospitals are not good either except for the staff who work so hard. It brings tears to my eyes when I see my brothers and sisters having to deal with these conditions. I am 70 years old, some say older than dirt but when I am with my brothers and sisters we become one and are made whole again."

How long ago were these original Anne Hull and Dana Priest stories and you still don't know that Walter Reed would even leave a soldier on a mattress, without sheets, in pools of his own urine. There is no way any good American did not know of these stories last week.

There is a major legacy cost to George Jr's "Mission Accomplished". These resulting legacy costs are estimated at about $2 Trillion. What does an MBA do - and George Jr is both educated as and reacts as an MBA? He cuts costs. Welcome to a soldier lying unattended in pools of his own urine in Walter Reed Army Hospital in Washington DC.

Do you think I am criticizing George Jr? Not as much as I am criticizing Cellar dwellers who did not know this story last week.

How long ago was the contempt for American soldiers in Walter Reed known? Well long after the story broke, we have this report on 2 Mar 2007:

Army Fires Commander of Walter Reed
The commander of Walter Reed Army Medical Center was fired yesterday after the Army said it had lost trust and confidence in his leadership in the wake of a scandal over outpatient treatment of wounded troops at the Northwest Washington hospital complex.

That pathetic care for soldiers even in Walter Reed - which is supposed to be the best of the best - was that bad - and ignored by how many here?

Remember - 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. Even Rumsfeld's wife had personal testimony - and he did nothing. This is not an accident - just like the USS Bataan sat off New Orleans unable to offer Katrina assistance because this administration would not authorize it. Walter Reed is not an accident. How big is the iceberg. How much contempt does Pres Cheney have for the troops and for Americans? Did you also read how much more spying on Americans is conducted by an administration with Urbane Guerrilla definitions for 'what is democracy'?

TheMercenary;321805 wrote:
Anybody here work in a hospital?

For the record - Wolf works in a hospital (I think - a mental care unit anyway), Brianna was a nurse for many years and althougj I am office based I have a lot of contact with hospitals and spend a reasonable amount of time there (work for the National Health Service).

TheMercenary;321805 wrote:
Anybody here work in a hospital?

Sundae Girl;321849 wrote:
For the record -

I work at a hospital, but I'm a computer guy.

Sorry chick - another addition to the Flintfile