Boston Bomb Scare
Someone gets some circuit boards, solders some LEDs to them, attaches a battery and magnets and puts them around Boston in a bit of creative prank/graffiti fun.
...and then
everyone freaks out.
A source close to the investigation told WBZ it was a "sophisticated electronic device" that somebody placed there for a reason. It was not an explosive device and police say it did not pose any danger to anyone.
The device, a large circuit board with wires and batteries, was found attached to a beam with magnets about 15-to-20 feet above a busway that runs below an elevated section of the highway.
A bomb squad officer removed it and authorities blasted it with a water cannon around 10 a.m. to render it useless. The highway and T station re-opened a short time later.
On CNN they're calling the placing of the light-up Adult Swim character Ignignokt a "potential terrorist dry run" and that the devices were "engineered to look like real bombs".
My, my, we're a twitchy and nervous lot these days.
Boston, eh?
It seems a bit banal for an MIT hack, but I suppose a freshman's gotta start somewhere...
The Mooninite Quote Generator
[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="1"]
Well for one thing, the moon has one third less gravity than your earth, I don't know if you can understand that, but our vertical leap is beyond all measurement. -
Ignignokt
Alright, when I say your name, you say 'here.' And we will assume 'here' is short for 'here I am...rock you like a hurricane.' -
Ignignokt
Here on the moon, our weekends are so advanced, they encompass the entire week. -
Ignignokt
Bow your heads or I'll bow em for ya! -
Err [/SIZE][/COLOR]
Thank god it wasn't
Mario blocks.
WTF? It's just an
LED throwie on steroids.
For what they look like up close, along with pictures of what they look like lit up,
check here.
It's a fuckin' Lite-Brite.
Pretty fancy lite-bright. The boards
look professionally printed.
Hopping around the coverage of this, I gotta say- who do "the officials" think is menacing our country? A Batman villain? Do they seriously think that a bomb is going to be covered with blinky lights in the form of a cartoon character?
Do they seriously think that a bomb is going to be covered with blinky lights in the form of a cartoon character?
That's why they call it
terrorism: they want you to know that it's a bomb, but you can't get to it (much less decide whether to clip the blue or the red wire, oh no! the red wire made it go faster!) because it's, like, ten feet up in the air and you don't have a ladder.
Oh my God has anybody got a ladde-[SIZE="4"]BOOM[/SIZE]!!! That's the terror part.
Apparently they're ads. I thought they were a bit boring for MIT.
"We regret that they were mistakenly thought to pose any danger."
Revised from: We regret that they were mistakenly thought to pose any danger,
you fucking morons.
...the objects had been in place for two to three weeks in
[SIZE="4"]Boston[/SIZE], [SIZE="4"]New York[/SIZE], [SIZE="4"]Los Angeles[/SIZE], [SIZE="4"]Chicago[/SIZE], [SIZE="4"]Atlanta[/SIZE], [SIZE="4"]Seattle[/SIZE], [SIZE="4"]Portland[/SIZE], [SIZE="4"]Austin[/SIZE], [SIZE="4"]San Francisco[/SIZE], and [SIZE="4"]Philadelphia[/SIZE].
On the plus side for Turner, they can now start selling them. Boston just made them the hot commodity on college campuses across the nation.
I liked (not) the part about
...City and state officials tried to quell fears today at a press conference at about the time Turner Broadcasting took responsibility for the publicity stunt. Boston Mayor Thomas promised to prosecute those responsible for what was described at the time as a hoax.
"This is not playing around," said Menino, who added that each individual scare could be punishable by two to three years in prison.
Good grief. What if I thought the "lost dog" flyers stapled to telephone poles in my neighborhood were "scary"? 2-3 years per flyer? I'm going to jail because you're a ninny? What happens if the bad guys make a bomb that looks like, I dunno, say, A CAR?!?! Will I get 2-3 years for scaring people who see my car? Wait, I own two cars, that's 4-6 years.
:smack:
Am I the only one that thinks the "bad guys" are wetting their pants with laughter at the overreaction here? Don't get me wrong--Terrorists==bad. I know that. But prosecuting people for, um, advertising? You're joking, right? No, I didn't think so.
Am I the only one that thinks the "bad guys" are wetting their pants with laughter at the overreaction here? Don't get me wrong--Terrorists==bad. I know that. But prosecuting people for, um, advertising? You're joking, right? No, I didn't think so.
I can support some littering fines, but that's about it.
Here's a first-person account.
I think we need to make up a bunch of these that have a scrolling display that reas, "This is not a bomb, you dimwits", and the stick them all over the place.
Then, if touched, the display should suddenly change to an animated explosion, with the word "BOOM!" in it.
The reporting was pretty consistently calling them "hoax devices", which upon first glance makes no sense, as they obviously were not intended to look like bombs, but that is the terminology in the terrorism law.
"We regret that they were mistakenly thought to pose any danger."
Revised from: We regret that they were mistakenly thought to pose any danger, you fucking morons.
"but we're really glad we've gotten all this free publicity"
Funniest paranoia event of 2007 so far.
"but we're really glad we've gotten all this free publicity"
I was telling my wife about this, and how they were supposedly in all these other cities for all this time, so what was it that made them a "bomb threat" in Boston? She says "Someone from Turner Broadcatsing 'reported' them in Boston?"
WTF? It's just an LED throwie on steroids.
That was my first thought.
[soapbox] Don't be so quick to condemn the mayor and all the city agencies that responded to this. They're doing their job. They're doing what we want them to do for a change.... protect the public. They have to respond to any unknown with maximum caution.
Just because they are within it's range and not watching on TV from a thousand miles away, dictates extreme caution.
How do you know the next terrorist bomb won't have blinky LED cartoon characters on it? Once the bomb is placed, that would be a way to attract the maximum curious people close.
So there's no reason to break their balls for doing their job the way they have scripted and rehearsed it. [/soapbox]
As you were and thank you for your attention. :cool:
The stupidity continues following an incident in which the city of Boston protected its citizens by detonating advertisements. A student that works for the advertising company has been arrested and charged with "placing a hoax device that results in panic".
“It is outrageous, in a post 9/11 world, that a company would use this type of marketing scheme. I am prepared to take any and all legal action against Turner Broadcasting and its affiliates for any and all expenses incurred during the response to today’s incidents. Boston will look to coordinate our efforts going forward with Cambridge, Somerville and any other affected agencies.”
So the city of Boston, instead of admitting they mistook a harmless set of lights for a bomb and tied up traffic for hours after announcing to the public that possible bombs had been planted around the city, pulls the "9/11 terrorism card"? And they're trying to tell us the
advertising employee caused the panic?
You don't need to plant an actual bomb to bring a city to a halt, scare the public, and cause economic damage. All you have to do is hang a motherboard from a telephone pole or duct tape a flashlight to a bridge girder. That's essentially what this boils down to, right? If the police see something and don't know what it is, the default conclusion is that it's a bomb set by terrorists. And even if the package is harmless, if you're the person that left it, your ass is going to pay for causing panic.
Note to self: don't
ever accidentally leave lunch box in the park, again.
I never thought the law enforcement organizations that protect our communities would be reduced to these types of unrealistic, excessive reactions. This is fucking ridiculous.
They freaked out as if they had no brain, then acted like, and continue to act like, a bunch of assholes... that is all.
The terrorists have won, we have no Constitution and our "protectors" are a bunch of fucking ninnys.
[Note to self: don't ever accidentally leave lunch box in the park, again.
Absolutely, ever wonder how many do turn out to be bombs? Quite a few in this area, a rash of pipe bombs, the last couple years.
Muslim terrorists aren't the only ones that build bombs. Oklahoma City? :unsure:
If anyone would care to volunteer to check out suspicious packages, there's lots of openings, just contact the police.
But again a well proven concept is demonstrated:
85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management.
A mental midget president has promoted fears in excess (for personal popularity). Even an advertisement must be a terrorist device. Same advertisements were in 10 other cities without calling out the bomb squad or National Guard. But hype and fear - this is how George Jr promotes popularity - because the boggy man is everywhere.
Of course we had more than enough security before 11 Sept. What changed? The administration stopped investigation after investigation that would have found Atta and his peers. The president, instead, promotes more fear, more dictatorship powers, more money, subvert the courts, torture… so that even LED displays “contain components of an inert bomb”. 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management.
Secret Service must even check under the president's bed every night. He fears. It once got high approval ratings.
What can I say - get used to it. Said with sympathy and sadness.
When I lived in London I lost count of how many times my journey was disrupted by a suspect package - in my 3.5 years there not a single one turned out to be a bomb.
And in the 10-odd years of staying with my grandparents in the school holidays I wasn't able to use a litter bin on a station platform because they had all been removed. True, London was still being bombed by the IRA during this time, but it was an everyday inconvenience all the same.
I'm not suggesting that the authorites didn't over-react in this case, but this is the way the world has been for a while and it seems to have finally caught up with America. In some ways you're lucky that the terrorists only seem to want to make big gestures in your country. It makes the plots easier to uncover.
Dear City of Boston,
After witnessing the horror of yesterday's terrorist scare, I must warn you there are many more suspicious packages in your city! Included is a map of just a handful of the dozens that are hidden in many of your public, populated areas and are concealed in your parks where children play. These packages are often dangerous-looking ammunition boxes, camouflaged plastic bins, and magnetic holders attached to USPS mailboxes and benches. The contents of these packages is a mystery. They are placed by people using a system employed by the 9/11 hijackers, GPS, and are visited frequently by suspect persons attempting to keep their actions secret. Prepare your citizens for the mass panic to come! For more information on what roads to close, buildings to evacuate, and where to deploy your bomb squad/homeland security forces, simply follow
this link.
We all pray for the best possible outcome, that these are hoax bombs, and that the criminals involved are quickly arrested and charged for their horrific actions.
...but this is the way the world has been for a while and it seems to have finally caught up with America.
I heard this same argument used, on both sides of the Atlantic, after 9/11. I don't buy it in either instance and I hope that the US never becomes the police state that the UK is and that Australia is becoming. Just because the people in those countries submitted to it doesn't mean the US should tolerate excessive police force, cameras monitoring every angle of every block of city, and "hoax bomb" freak-outs.
You people are
trying to ban pointy objects.
Stop being so damned afraid of everything.But again a well proven concept is demonstrated:
85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management.
I was thinking about this yesterday.
Fear. It's a great political tool, very useful in securing elections. It crushes all dissent, it spawns awful new laws, unimaginable (to a reasoning mind) legal precedents. So, it's a great tool for those interested in securing power.
But, what will they be securing power
of?
A crippled society.
A dysfunctional populace.
Fear changes the nature of the society, from the inside out. The country that you've wrestled into submission... Is it something you would even want any part of, now that it's a slobbering brain-dead goon, lumbering along in constant reactionary mode, stumbling forward with no clear goal, cringing at it's own shadow? Is it worth it? Now you're in control, total control, of a wasted, worthless society. You'll be on top for a few short years before the whole house-of-cards collapses.
I don't think the
Fear card has been fully considered, before being brought into play.
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
-F.D. Roosevelt, during his first inaugural address. He went on to secure three more presidential elections.
On a lighter note, I can't believe TheOnion isn't all over this story. I fully expected to see this featured on [COLOR="SeaGreen"]AMERICAN VOICES [/COLOR]today.
The Washington Post this morning had a spin on this story that I liked. After they reported all the facts in the first several paragraphs of the story, they did a few "man on the street" perspectives from bloggers. Basically calling the officials a bunch of over-reacting morons. But the Post didn't come right out and say it, they just quoted others saying it.
Our national railway system was wrecked because of some lose luggages which turned out to be false alarm, as usual.
Airport security checks are now extended to an absolute horror. I needed almost 1 hour to cross the security gates alone in Gatwick recently. Removing jackets, shoes, belts, remove laptop from luggage, seperate liquid containers from luggage. It may take one minute, but if 50-60 people are in front of you..
Them beardy faces in the mountains in Nowheristan have only to sit back relax and see the chaos they've created.
Them beardy faces in the mountains in Nowheristan have only to sit back relax and see the chaos they've created.
"Mission Accomplished" ...Oh, and not to mention the excellent recruitment campaign we've predictably launched in Iraq. We're so easy to manipulate.
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
-F.D. Roosevelt, during his first inaugural address. He went on to secure three more presidential elections.
...by pimping fear.
Dear City of Boston,
I must warn you there are many more suspicious packages in your city!
At least Geocaches are generally hidden...making them that much more dangerous and sinister!
Another is arrested and charged, this morning.
"The individuals who placed these packages should be warned that there is a heavy penalty -- two to five years imprisonment for each one of them. We are not playing around."
"Public safety officials are all working together. There is no time for anyone to panic."
Of course not. It wasn't time to lock down the city, either, or have the bomb squad rush around to blow up lighted advertisements.
Yet, this is exactly what your city did.
Maybe I'm wrong in being outraged by this and perhaps I should report anything suspect and take it seriously in this "post 9/11 age", but there is something about this that makes me think that this is a big statement being put out by the city of Boston that condemns any action that is outside the accepted norm. After seeing the ads, seeing what they looked like and what they were made of, and hearing what the law enforcement reps said about them both before and after, I now believe that they could not have possibly have been mistaken for bombs -- no other city with these ads reacted this way, no other reports were filed. Even in the remote possibility that one could have been, there is no way they were mistaken for explosives after they detonated the first one, then the second one, and then were still claiming they might be deadly devices while inspecting the third and forth ones.
If a simple Lite Bright-like board could be confused for an "improvised explosive device", then they can charge
anyone under these laws
for damn near doing anything "suspicious". We're going to see a lot more of this. No, it is absolutely not normal. No, we should not accept it. This is clearly abuse of power, plain and simple.
After witnessing the horror of yesterday's terrorist scare, I must warn you there are many more suspicious packages in your city!
Nobody builds a bomb and covers it with flashing LEDs. Putting a visual timer on a bomb - that is only in the movies (Goldfinger) so that brown shirts can understand 'what is a bomb'. Typical bomb, instead, is in a grocery bag or a UPS package.
A thin sign of LEDs with some D batteries? Only a brown shirt would call that a bomb. But again, why are we in Iraq? Same reason cited by Hitler's Mein Kampf. Preach to the brown shirts and marginalize the people of intelligence. Then fear can be promoted - such as Saddam conspiring with bin Laden. It is how Hitler then came to power.
Are you a brown shirt? Did you believe outright and intentional lies that Saddam conspired with bin Laden? Then George Jr needs you for his team. You will then see bombs even on flat LED panels. Promote more fear.
These brown shirts would even prosecute students hired to distribute LED advertisements. "Components of an inert bomb"? Well then I was building terrorist weapons using Op amps and noise makers in early 1960s. Why, back then, was it considered humor - and today considered terrorism? 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. The mental midget and his allies feared those who knew what he really was back in 2003.
We so cannot be trusted that even White House lawyers must rewrite all science reports - so that science is made safer. This so that only the brown shirts know what is good for America. No wonder the mental midget has driven quantum physics and stem cell research from this nation. No wonder it takes up to five years for a science student to get a visa - to study in America. We don't need no stink'in science. We have brown shirts.
Funniest paranoia event of 2007 so far.
:lighter :STANDING OVATION: :lighter:
Brav-o!Everybody needs some stickers that say "This looks absolutely nothing like a bomb" for all of their possessions, just so nobody can accuse them of having "hoax devices".
the whole thing is very very silly.. but the part that bothered me the most is when the boston police chief is saying " materials used were consistant with IEDs" hmmm.. batteries, wires and circuit boards? CRAP!!! EVERYONE AWAY FROM YOUR COMPUTER!!! NOW!!! whew.. I wonder how much we could get out of bill gates?
Everybody needs some stickers that say "This looks absolutely nothing like a bomb" for all of their possessions, just so nobody can accuse them of having "hoax devices".
No matter how you word it, the sticker could be construed as "threatening" etc. ...
Logic and reason do not apply here.This is the worst theat Boston has faced since the giant-spaceship-guitars-that-explode-the-Earth.
This is the worst theat Boston has faced since the giant-spaceship-guitars-that-explode-the-Earth.
Awesome! :biglaugha
"We were just another bomb out of Boston..."
Awesome! :biglaugha
I'm not gonna lie to ya, I'm listening to that album right now. Tom Scholtz (lead guitar, engineer) is an MIT graduate with a Master's Degree in Mecchanical Engineering,
and a kick-ass guitarist (see: solo section of
Hitch a Ride). btw: whatever happened to
vocal harmonies in rock bands?
That was my first thought.
[soapbox] Don't be so quick to condemn the mayor and all the city agencies that responded to this. They're doing their job. They're doing what we want them to do for a change.... protect the public. They have to respond to any unknown with maximum caution.
Just because they are within it's range and not watching on TV from a thousand miles away, dictates extreme caution.
How do you know the next terrorist bomb won't have blinky LED cartoon characters on it? Once the bomb is placed, that would be a way to attract the maximum curious people close.
So there's no reason to break their balls for doing their job the way they have scripted and rehearsed it. [/soapbox]
As you were and thank you for your attention. :cool:
Dear xoB:
Once again, you display the wisdom and calmness for which you are known. You're right on target. The public agencies *are* expected to respond. We all agree on that. But I think I may not have made my point clear.
I don't condemn the public safety officials for responding to the physical threat. I **do** condemn those officials who made statements about prosecuting people for what happened here. That is not right. This is no act of terrorism, I don’t care how freaked out somebody got.
Somebody was suspicious, there was a call, there was a response and it turned out to be a big false alarm. I called 911 once and nobody had to go to the hospital after they came. I said I was sorry I overreacted, I was scared, I didn’t know what to do, so I called. The first responders, the fire truck full of firemen and the aid car full of emt/paramedics, said “No problem. You did what you were supposed to do.” And I didn’t get charged for the trip or the call, I didn’t get arrested and prosecuted for guessing wrong about the seriousness of the situation.
We’re well past the panic phase of this event. It’s not an emergency anymore. There’s no need to respond with force, to speed through town lights and sirens blazing. There is no crime here, so why is there all this talk of prosecution? THAT’S what I’m chapped about.
If it’s “the law”, then the law is w-r-o-n-g. If it’s a judgment call on the part of the prosecutor, then his judgment is wrong. It’s over, nothing to see here, move along people, as you were, etc, etc. Jail?! Why? Explain why this is an act of terrorism.
Isn't it time we changed the words to America the Beautiful?
"from every mountainside, let freedom - echo (asitrecedesintothedistance)."
[QUOTE=Undertoad]The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
-F.D. Roosevelt, during his first inaugural address. He went on to secure three more presidential elections.
...by pimping fear.[/QUOTE]You could say that but I think you'd be 180 degrees from the truth. I hear that statement as "Stand up. Don't be afraid. There's nothing out there. It's ok, you're just scared."
GWB "pimps fear". WMDs. Yellowcake. Nukyular Islamofacists. Most of all "Them."
GWB points over there and says "that's scary". FDR pointed at the American people and said "there's nothing to be scared of".
Big difference.
whatever happened to vocal harmonies in rock bands?
In Jr Hi my best friend had the album and had me listen to the harmony at the end of More than A Feeling, right before it goes out. I think it was my first intro to listening to "arrangement" of music and harmony. Good stuff.
I think it is very important to listen to what
the people of Boston think.
Hey Borat, you’re not a citizen? That’s too bad. How does five years at Cedar Junction sound, followed by a steerage-class flight back to the Third World hellhole from which you came, to annoy the taxpaying citizens? It’s from us to you, Borat. Don’t consider your deportation an obscene gesture. Think of it as a work of art, in progress.
Jeez, what a worthless column...
:::can't seem to type up a coherent response to this at the moment:::
But...what we're doing...is for...to...uh...protect...our... Freedom [SIZE="4"]???[/SIZE] :::head explodes:::
Jeez, what a worthless column...
If you think that was worthless, you should check out the
press event for the two arrested.
That was, perhaps, the most smart ass "no comment" I've ever seen.
"Ad Hoax Suspects Make Mockery Of Situation" The title of this video, once again, confounds my ability to comment appropriately.
That was it. Thanks, BigV.
News voice off camera: "Are you afraid if you go to prison, you'll get your hair cut?"
Dreadlocks: "That's a very good question. I think, I think the laws in this country are still pretty comfy as to, as to that, I feel that whatever happens my hair is safe at the moment."
"You're squandering the sympathy of the people by not talking about...."
"...your clients are not generating much sympathy with the press or the public with their attitude".
Scolded by the reporters? hahaha. It's a perfect response. A non statement for a non event.
I love how these "suspects" "claim" they were "hired" to place these "ads" for a "TV show" . . . ummm...
Turner Broadcasting did release-wait, did they? yes, yes they did release a statement about this. So that part should be all cleared up.
A non statement for a non event.
I don't think it was a
total non-statement. I mean, on the subject of haircuts, IE appearance, let's not forget what
real terrorists look like:
I don't know about anyone else, but yesterday is the first time I ever seriously even *considered* watching Aqua Teen Hunger Force, so apparently the ad campaign is working nicely.
Making a mockery of something that is already such a huge clusterf*ck? Is that even possible?
Dude, ATHF is greatness. I have three seasons on DVD.
I don't think it was a total non-statement. I mean, on the subject of haircuts, IE appearance, let's not forget what real terrorists look like:
Resist the urge to conflate these two, gawd. I hesitate to justify the most recent one with the word "event", but I'll hold my nose and do so.
Flint:
Resist the urge to conflate these two events. Such a response is a national fad right now, but your mother was right about everybody else jumping off a cliff. They're different. Not the same. Not connected. Your picture is prima facie evidence of this.
Different haircuts. Different events. Get it straight.
BigV, how stupid do you think I am? Read the sarcasm between the lines.
This column makes it out like a battle of us versus them, and the definition of
them is widening every day.
Kitsune observed
"...there is something about this that makes me think that this is a big statement being put out by the city of Boston that condemns any action that is outside the accepted norm" and I agree. And furthermore, the dreadlocked, non-citizen suspect makes a great scapegoat because he is
different from
us.
Which brings us to the subject of what do "terrorists" (or "suspects" as this story is framed
by the [SIZE="4"]media[/SIZE], not
me) look like?
Or, to over-explain this to the Nth degree: do "terrorists" "look" a certain way? [SIZE="4"]NO![/SIZE]
Would you have suspected McVeigh, based on
appearance? [SIZE="4"]NO![/SIZE] Get it?
It's not a
total non-statement to hold a press conference about
appearance, IE haircuts in this case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yigQGKaf2A
You tubes video if you havn't seen it already. I didn't see a link to it yet.
Making a mockery of something that is already such a huge clusterf*ck? Is that even possible?
Is clusterf*uck as a word even possible? :P and what is it? I know. I am a simpleton. :dunce:
Flint, I don't think you're stupid. If I did, you'd know it, even if you were stupid.
The overreaction to this "event" is stupid. I'm riffing on your point that "real" terrorists have "real" haircuts, observing that, OBVIOUSLY, since this new guy doesn't have such a haircut, he can't possibly be a real terrorist.
Dude. :chill:
edit--Actually, don't chill. this isn't something that we, any of us should chill about. We should be talking about why this was a big fucking deal for some people yesterday, and why it's a big fucking deal for a completely different set of people today. Seriously. don't chill. :rar: :cuss: :angry: Knock yourself out. Be pissed at me, fine. My comments were not directed at you, I think you get it. My comments were directed at the same embarassed frightened terror-ees that panicked in the first place.
The discussion needs to be why are we so spooked? It was a nice day yesterday. This was not a plane crashing into a building. No kittens were harmed in the making of the displays. Why have some people surrendered their backbones, their ability to take a punch, their ability to take a joke, and gave away their balls in the bargain.
Goddamit! The world will ALWAYS have threats in it, some real, most not. Don't chill, don't panic, but roll with the punches a little, willya? I'm gonna pop a vessel just watching you (all) whip yourself into a perfect froth of chicken little apoplexy.
Fuck. gimme that. :chill: :chill: I'll take two.
[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="4"] "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention"[/SIZE][/COLOR]
Can we all say it together so they can learn "we were wrong".
See, was that so hard?
All they had to say. That they did not is silly and means those that did not should have to repay the taxpayers out of their personal salaries for every thing that happened after the moment they knew.
Simple.
I guess I need a sticker for my wheelchair, "not a bomb idiot, go find a light-bright".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0PgnOZFKiY
This one is funny...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G-D0F4Q9ykThe devices didn't prompt calls of concern in any of the nine other cities where Turner said the devices were placed. Police in the other cities fanned out to find and remove them after Boston's scare.
Some enterprising people got to the devices before police: At least seven were for sale Thursday afternoon on the Internet auction site eBay, ranging in price from $500 to $2,100.
Most of Boston's colleagues in law enforcement in the other cities chose their words carefully.
"I wouldn't want to give my opinion but in today's world it's better safe than sorry. Someone (in Boston) clearly thought there was a threat," Atlanta police Officer Joe Cobb said.
In the Seattle area, authorities thought the devices were "obviously not suspicious."
"In this day and age, whenever anything remotely suspicious shows up, people get concerned — and that's good," King County sheriff's Sgt. John Urquhart said. "However, people don't need to be concerned about this. These are cartoon characters giving the finger."
WHAT?!? Why wasn't I alerted? I have been denied my constitooshinal right to freak out expressin. Who do I sue?!
From here.Good grief. The fact that these things are nothing more than illuminated signs is *glaringly* obvious. Furthermore, were those *strategic* metal awnings or something? I mean, wouldn't these things have been more effective (if they had been bombs) planted somewhere else?
Plus, they had been up for weeks. What a great bomb strategy, no?
Hey, what happened to
this guy? Why aren't the police looking for him? Where's a description of him? Where's the manhunt?
Was it really a pipebomb? How come we're not hearing about this?
Six minutes later at 1:02 p.m. Boston Police received a call from New England Medical Center Security that they had uncovered a pipe bomb in their building in a desk drawer. Shortly thereafter Hospital Security reported that a suspect had been seen leaving the area of the pipe bomb in an agitated state stating, "God is warning you that today is going to be a sad Day." The suspect was reported to have fled the hospital. Boston Police continue to investigate this incident. No further details at this time.
At 1:08 p.m. the Boston Police Bomb Squad arrived and confirmed the existence of an item which appeared to be a pipe bomb inside the hospital.
Hey there--this is my first post and I'm posting mainly because I want to see my name in lights! or something.
This whole story made me laugh. Yes, there are serious implications here, which I'm disinclined to debate, but . . .
the best part?
"we'll only take questions about hair!"
frickin' hilarious!
New drinking game!
You have to do a shot of whiskey every time TW refers to the President as a "mental midget", blames all problems on "top management", invokes any Nazi reference or makes a post that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Misspellings count.
If tw's misspellings count, we'll all be too sozzled to see the screen.
Hey, what happened to this guy? Why aren't the police looking for him? Where's a description of him? Where's the manhunt? Was it really a pipebomb? How come we're not hearing about this?
It was probably the thermos from someone's lunch-box.:rolleyes:
From here:
Given the massive effort, we wondered if — in light of the hundreds of false alarms called in every week around the country in the years since 9/11 — have we become too paranoid?
"I think it was the right reaction," said Ed Clark, former director of the Homeland Security Threats Office and Special Forces veteran. "We've accomplished the first phase of educating the American public in what they're required to do. We can't make the assumption that everything will be all right anymore." If nothing else, Clark said the response to the botched promo campaign was another opportunity for officials to get real-life, in-the-field experience.
Clark, who teaches a course on how to recognize suspicious devices, said he was encouraged that citizens called in the moon men. But even he admitted that it was not likely that a "transnational Islamic group would put a cartoon character flipping the bird" on an explosive device if they were serious about inflicting harm.
Russ Knocke, a spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security, also praised authorities for their quick response and attempts to keep the public appraised of the situation. He said the stunt was just one of dozens of similar everyday incidents that are investigated and turn out to be false alarms. "Prior to the incidents in Boston, there were three or four [false alarms] around the Washington, D.C., area before noon," he said. "We need the public to be vigilant if they see something abnormal."
Then again, the devices sat around in Boston, the city's surrounding areas and nine other major cities for weeks without anyone calling in to report them. So does the Beantown bust really mean we're more or less vigilant? Have we even learned a lesson about what kinds of things are suspicious and what's probably a prank?
Not wanting to be out-securitized and over-responsified, the FEDERAL Gov't officials are saying how "right" the response has been. But what exactly went right? The cops picked up the phone when someone called? Ok, I'll buy that. They treated the unknown devices with an (over)abundance of caution? Ok, fine. But the rest of the Boston side of the story is off the rails, as far as I can see. Late reaction--
weeks elapsed from the time they were placed to the time they were removed. Over reaction on the part of the prosecutors and the Governor. Puh-lease.
I've heard that the law they're being charged with, one felony charge of placing a hoax device and one charge of disorderly conduct, state Attorney General Martha . He had been hired to place the devices, she said.
Here's an excerpt of the law. Love the phrase "infernal machine"!
Chapter 266: Section 102A1/2. Possession, transportation, use or placement of hoax devices; penalty; law enforcement or public safety officer exemption
Section 102A1/2. (a) Whoever possesses, transports, uses or places or causes another to knowingly or unknowingly possess, transport, use or place any hoax device or hoax substance with the intent to cause anxiety, unrest, fear or personal discomfort to any person or group of persons shall be punished by imprisonment in a house of correction for not more than two and one-half years or by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than five years or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
(b) For the purposes of this section, the term “hoax device” shall mean any device that would cause a person reasonably to believe that such device is an infernal machine. For the purposes of this section, the term “infernal machine” shall mean any device for endangering life or doing unusual damage to property, or both, by fire or explosion, whether or not contrived to ignite or explode automatically. For the purposes of this section, the words “hoax substance” shall mean any substance that would cause a person reasonably to believe that such substance is a harmful chemical or biological agent, a poison, a harmful radioactive substance or any other substance for causing serious bodily injury, endangering life or doing unusual damage to property, or both.
And as to the snotty-sounding "statement to the press" by the two men arrested for this action, we don't (or
shouldn't jail people for their attitude. Heh. They even made
a movie of their work.
The judge didn't seem too impressed with the DA according to
this article.
Judge Paul K. Leary seemed skeptical of the state's case, telling Grossman that the law requires that people must intend to create a panic to be charged with placing hoax devices. This case, the judge said, seemed to involve two men who relatives say were paid to place unorthodox advertisements throughout the city.
Maybe if they had a cryptic messages people would not look so ridiculous for panicing. The fact that people over reacted in one area but not in others proves the beauty of a light bright giving the finger. How perfect was that!
I say we pack-em' with C4 and make Tater-Bombs with a Jesus timer!
Eeeeevvvvilllllll!!!!!
A camera I rigged up sometime ago to take pictures automatically while suspended from balloons versus the infamous "1 Call Missed" IED.
Uh-oh... :worried:
I
:D
hehehe
I don't condemn the public safety officials for responding to the physical threat. I **do** condemn those officials who made statements about prosecuting people for what happened here. That is not right. This is no act of terrorism, I don’t care how freaked out somebody got.
You're right, I was responding to the criticism of their response to reported suspicious objects. As a matter of fact, it wasn't until this morning that I heard the ridiculous face saving attempts by the powers that be.
A while back I posted about a guy at work that has been a volunteer power boat inspector for the power squadron for years. Suddenly he's part of Homeland Security with a diploma looking certificate to hang on the wall. I think it's part of the Federal plan to keep terrorism/paranoia in everyones face.
The Feds have also thrown a ton of money at the cities and states to develop contingency plans and rehearse repeatedly. I think Wolf has taken part in these rehearsals. The purpose is when the call comes, everybody knows what to do and does it fast. That's what happened in Boston, just like they rehearsed it. As far as shutting down major highways, one guy with a flat tire can do that, during rush hour.
As far as Muslim terrorists not putting LEDs on bombs. After 9-11, all the bombs set off around the world were by recruited natives rather than Middle Eastern wackos. Anybody that thinks there aren't passport carrying US citizens that would join this cause are naive. Crazy Americans are likely to do anything.... even put LEDs on bombs. :rollanim:
As much as their attempts to save face, I'm disturbed they felt they had to. They did what they were supposed to do, what they had trained to do and to be embarrassed they did that, is as ridiculous as their face saving nonsense. Of course being political, they're all trying to top each other by coming up with a bigger condemnation and end up making themselves look stupid.
When do we also discuss 1970s hairstyles?
That is sad. Should come out of the idiots pay.
Turner the company has no choice but to cough up the cost of the exercise of Boston federales handling the Moonite threat. As for the guerrilla advertisers, I think probation and fine is appropriate.
New Yorkers probably think Ignignokt was giving the One Finger Brooklyn Salute, as opposed to of the arm-and-bent-elbow one.
They deserve nothing, gorilla ads are normal in Boston... no one else gets probation. I call BS.
Turner did nothing wrong. I call BS.
I guess you do have a point that they were just doing their job...
...So I guess its just the job I hate. If we start panicking at every single thing with computer parts and lights... The terrorists've won. If we don't let them affect us, they can not possibly win.
Sad. Turner is going to knuckle-under and cough up the cash.
I don't think it's sad... I think this is a win win win for Turner. They got several times the return on investment for their advertising dollar, *even including* the cost of the response. PLUS they get to look like a good corporate citizen.
Come on, what in the world would they say otherwise, NO! You're all dumb poopy heads! Even if, no, especially if they are poopy heads, they can't say that. I think they're happy to pay, and thanks very much, don't forget to tune it to ATHF!!
Now, the double standard is having the individual pay. That's just punitive. I think there's a deeper well of sympathy for an individual (or two) for the public to draw on when the individual is in opposition to Gummint.
It's not consistent, but nothing about the whole situation is very rational for more than a couple of steps in a row. Then it's off the rails.
I don't think it's sad... I think this is a win win win for Turner. They got several times the return on investment for their advertising dollar, *even including* the cost of the response. PLUS they get to look like a good corporate citizen.
This is a very good point. Anyone know how much the average advertising campaign is for a typical movie? It sounds like Turner probably got away with a steal (front page news, "breaking news" airtime) for $750,000-$1mil!
So, what happens when the guilty are punished, and the doors are flung open for every Joe Briefcase who lost a critical deal or couldn't be present for the birth of a child, etc, etc, starts suing Turner for causing a disruption?
You just *know* some smart guy lawyer out there is going to find somebody who was seriously harmed by this stunt, right?
Fark's take on it:
Turner Broadcasting agrees to pay $2 million for Aqua Teen Strike Force advertising; claims that it was cheaper and more productive than a 30-second Super Bowl commercial
These ads were places in 10 cities.
Only Boston freaked out.
Here is a conversation between two beat cops in Manhattan:
"Hey, Joe, what the fuck is that?"
"Well, Bill, it looks like a 'Lite-Brite™."
"Well, I'll be, it is a Lite-Brite™."
"Coffee? I'll buy."
Mayor Menino is more worried about a fucking kids toy than making sure that drivers aren't crushed by 10 ton steel plates falling off bridges.
"All your Lite-Brite™ are belong to us"
4/01/1998
Terrorist Lite-Brites are just the thing to distract people from the real danger...namely, Big Dig components falling on you. Or real terrorists.
another example of "big dig" thinking, 85%, midgets, etc.
These ads were places in 10 cities.
Only Boston freaked out.
Here is a conversation between two beat cops in Manhattan:
"Hey, Joe, what the fuck is that?"
"Well, Bill, it looks like a 'Lite-Brite™."
"Well, I'll be, it is a Lite-Brite™."
"Coffee? I'll buy."
Mayor Menino is more worried about a fucking kids toy than making sure that drivers aren't crushed by 10 ton steel plates falling off bridges.
"All your Lite-Brite™ are belong to us"
4/01/1998
Did you miss this earlier post?
Seattle to Boston...
They got several times the return on investment for their advertising dollar, *even including* the cost of the response. PLUS they get to look like a good corporate citizen.
I guess it wasn't all good. :neutral:
Shit.
On Friday, Samples fell on his sword, saying he would leave the company. He has worked at Turner for 13 years.
"As general manager of Cartoon Network, I feel compelled to step down, effective immediately, in recognition of the gravity of the situation that occurred under my watch," he said in a statement sent to staffers. "It's my hope that my decision allows us to put this chapter behind us."
Samples, a Jonesboro native, was tapped to run Cartoon Network in 2001. Among others things, he helped build Cartoon's Adult Swim programs into a major success.
Once again, the corporation survives at the expense of the individual.
So, do you think Boston will
file suit against its own department of transportation? :)
Really, is the default to "we don't know what it is" to call the freaking bomb squad?
Just as the chorus of indignant voices had stopped chastising us for calling Boston a bunch of idiots.
Texas handles
a similar incident better than Boston!
Eventually, at least. First they hauled off a 14 year old in handcuffs and interrogated him away from his family after he tried to show off his electronics project to his teachers, and then congratulated themselves on how they handled it.
But they aren't charging him!
ETA: Cloud's first post is in this thread!
And he apparently got an invitation from Obama to the White House.
His plan is working perfectly...
Fascinating. In the comments of UT's link is another link showing the kid's dad has a long history of being an anti-Islamophobia activist. I, too, am convinced. I'm sure he never thought it would get this big, but the kid was fucking with his teachers, for sure.
The article says he took the guts out of an old clock and put them in a pencil case.
When I understood him to say that he "made" a clock, I assumed that he cannibalized some other existing electronics and put it together into a clock. Kids can get their hands on discarded junk easily, but they don't have much money to buy new individual electronic components that would add up to maybe $50 or so for the same contraption.
So he took a clock apart and stuck it into a pencil case. He probably felt that he made a clock. Instructibles.com is full of similar case mods where people claim that they made something when all they really did was repackaged something.
When I heard it had a circuit board, that is exactly what I suspected he had done. A clock sounds simple, but I would have been pretty surprised if he had actually built one from scratch.
I'm not sure how the word "hoax" comes in if he never said it was a bomb, and nobody thought it was.
Here's his dad
He ran for President of Sudan twice, and was a primary battler of Florida Koran-burning pastor Terry Jones a few years ago.
Pops set this up. We all fell for it. The President fell for it. Now what?
Maybe pops set it up, but the cops and principal swallowed it hook line and sinker.
I've got my biases in this for sure. I'm a maker. On my bedroom floor right now is an alarm clock radio I took from the curb and took apart to see if there would be an easy way to add an aux input. My son is a year younger than this kid and he's a bigger maker than I ever was. This strikes pretty close to home for me. Glatt Jr. actually had a homework assignment in Spanish two days ago where he had to write about what makes him special, and he made up some BS instead of talking about the stuff he makes in my basement because he didn't want anyone at school to know that he makes stuff. It would lead to questions and then how does he explain that he makes typical boy stuff like alcohol burning stoves and weapons to fight the zombies?
This is turning into a Left vs Right issue, and I think that's fascinating.
Here's his dad
He ran for President of Sudan twice, and was a primary battler of Florida Koran-burning pastor Terry Jones a few years ago.
I knew that. Who fell for what? What was the hoax?
The article says he took the guts out of an old clock and put them in a pencil case.
This was the "pencil case" he put it in (the black one.) It looks exactly like a bomb briefcase from the movies.
From another article, when he first showed it to his engineering teacher, the teacher told him, "Don't show that to anyone else." The kid's stated intention was to show it off to his electronics teacher, which he did without incident. But having not gotten the actual reaction he wanted, he then showed it to his English teacher, who was the one who sent him to the principal's office.
The thing is, this is exactly the kind of thing my friends and I would have done. We were smart, and bored, and we occasionally fucked with our teachers because it was entertaining,
especially when we knew they knew what we were doing, but their hands were tied because of policy.
My brother did a very similar thing with his physics teacher in HS.
The teacher had mentioned that he couldn't hear high pitched sounds. So my brother made a little box that emmitted a faily loud buzzing noise at a high pitch, and was setting it off during class.
The teacher didn't hear it, but the other students did. Some thought it was funny, and some thought it was stupid and annoying. It caused a disruption, so my brother turned it off. But the teacher knew something was going on. My brother got mildy scolded, but nobody called the police. He wasn't arrested and suspended.
I wasn't there for this clock incident. If the principal felt the kid was deliberately disrupting class, he deserves a detention. Arrest and suspension are way overboard.
But having not gotten the actual reaction he wanted, he then showed it to his English teacher, who was the one who sent him to the principal's office.
Actually from one of the
original stories
He kept the clock inside his school bag in English class, but the teacher complained when the alarm beeped in the middle of a lesson. Ahmed brought his invention up to show her afterward.
~
The reverse engineering article points out something very odd about the lad's Youtube interview with the Dallas Morning News. Here's the interview:
[YOUTUBE]3mW4w0Y1OXE[/YOUTUBE]
At 1:25, the kid says
I closed it with a cable. Because I didn't want to lock it to make it seem like a threat, so I just used a simple cable. So it won't look that much suspicious.
The reverse engineering article asks, why was he concerned about it looking suspicious? He's describing his choice while building this thing.
The danger here is that I/we parse the worlds of a 14-year-old too closely. But he is also really specific about this detail, where there is no reason to get specific. Often, when you lie, you introduce unnecessary specifics.
I also find it interesting that he is constantly doubling down on he
invented this thing. Even knowing he's in serious trouble, he never just stops and says hey I took apart a clock. I thought it would look cool with all the electronics exposed and the display mounted on the case lid.
I'd point out that he was describing past events after having been arrested. So he knows there was HUGE suspicion surrounding him. He's trying to paint himself in the best light, as we all do.
(the above was edited - i didn't realize it took me 10 minutes)
Arrest and suspension are way overboard.
Oh, absolutely. The school should have realized that you don't play chicken with a teenager, because doubling-down is all most kids know how to do, whether out of panic or defiance or both. It's possible the school felt their hands were tied because of a shitty zero-tolerance policy, but still, they should have known how to quietly let this thing go.
My brother did a very similar thing with his physics teacher in HS.
The teacher had mentioned that he couldn't hear high pitched sounds. So my brother made a little box that emmitted a faily loud buzzing noise at a high pitch, and was setting it off during class.
The teacher didn't hear it, but the other students did. Some thought it was funny, and some thought it was stupid and annoying. It caused a disruption, so my brother turned it off. But the teacher knew something was going on. My brother got mildy scolded, but nobody called the police. He wasn't arrested and suspended.
Yeah, we had several instances of the "too high-pitched for adults to hear" prank. We also had a kid who figured out what kind of universal remote worked with the TVs in the school classrooms, and he would turn them on randomly from his backpack whenever it suited him.
When I was in 8th grade, I read the entirety of
Johnny Tremain upside-down just to piss off a teacher. I told him that I had a rare form of dyslexia where instead of being flipped left-to-right, letters were flipped top-to-bottom, and that if he tried to make me read it right side up he was discriminating against my disability.
When I was in 8th grade, I read the entirety of Johnny Tremain upside-down just to piss off a teacher. I told him that I had a rare form of dyslexia where instead of being flipped left-to-right, letters were flipped top-to-bottom, and that if he tried to make me read it right side up he was discriminating against my disability.
Oh, he loved you, I'm sure. LOL
I would want EVERY SINGLE TEACHER in EVERY situation to report this and for it to be addressed. When etc etc the knew it wasn't a bomb, I don't know. What to do from there ... something different, but we have these zero-tolerance policies and they dictate what must be done.
I'll just dump all these here. I call bullshit on the whole thing. Something doesn't add up right.
Times have changed. When I was in junior high, my woodshop teacher helped me build a working replica medieval crossbow. In New York state. Where crossbows were illegal at the time.
Only on TV do bombs have visual timers and beep. Real bombs don't waste time doing something so useless. How many adults cannot even understand that simplistic concept? How many adults know it is a bomb when nothing of bomb size and potential even exists in it? The teacher panicked due to ignorance and emotion. How long did it take for someone to finally act like an adult - and think?
I'm not saying what happened was right. But the child was accused of a bomb hoax, not of making a bomb.
Except he never hoaxed anyone either.
It wasn't a bomb, and never said it was, and when they described things he could have done to make it seem like a bomb, they were things he hadn't done.
But the child was accused of a bomb hoax, not of making a bomb.
Throw some wires and electronic parts in a box. That is a bomb or a hoax? Hoax was the ability of an adult (and her peers) to think like an adult. She made other involved adult (and police) into national jokes.
Nothing was right or wrong. Pathetic were so many adults who failed to think like adults. The kid remained suspended from school because a teacher and administration could not admit their ignorance and public humiliation? Who was the child here?
Somewhat interesting article about the boy, talking to a former teacher.
There's enough ammo in here to support any position you have on the boy.
And the kid is moving to Qatar.
The backwards-ass authoritarian country offered him a full scholarship. So his family is moving there soon. WTF?
Interesting also how there weren't any pictures of him meeting with Obama splashed all over the media. They kept that meeting on the down low.
I saw pictures of that meeting. They probably weren't "splashed all over" because the media was bored with him.
Apostasy is a crime punishable by the death penalty in Qatar... Blasphemy is punishable by up to seven years in prison and proselytizing can be punished by up to 10 years in prison.
...
In 2012, Qatar was ranked near the bottom of the OECD countries participating in the PISA test of math, reading and skills for 15 to 16-year olds, comparable to Colombia or Albania, despite having the highest per capita income in the world.
Yes indeed, this is a family that is all about that science, 'bout that science, no trouble.
And the kid is moving to Qatar.
The backwards-ass authoritarian country offered him a full scholarship.
So his family is moving there soon. WTF?
...
Hmmm.... Authoritarian, yes. Different religion, yes.
But, if I lived in a place where my kid was treated that way by the local officials
and community, I'd seriously think about moving out too.
from
Wikipedia:
Qatar is a high income economy backed by the world's third largest natural gas reserves and oil reserves.[20]
The country has the highest per capita income in the world. Qatar is an influential player in the Arab world,
supporting several rebel groups during the Arab Spring both financially and through
its globally expanding media group, Al Jazeera Media Network
[21][22][23]
Qatar will host the 2022 FIFA World Cup, becoming the first Arab country to do so
[24]
For its size, Qatar wields disproportionate influence in the world, and has been identified as a middle power.[25][26]
See also:
Wiki: Qatar Foundation
.
You are engaging in some serious cherry picking from that entry.
Yes, I know... "backwards-ass"
Hmmm.... Authoritarian, yes. Different religion, yes.
But, if I lived in a place where my kid was treated that way by the local officials
and community, I'd seriously think about moving out too.
Because there's certainly nowhere in America more tolerant and accepting than Texas... If you can't make friends here, you might as well give up.
I saw pictures of that meeting. They probably weren't "splashed all over" because the media was bored with him.
Oh, yeh... that's it :rolleyes: :right:
You are engaging in some serious cherry picking from that entry.
:cool:
Oh, yeh... that's it :rolleyes: :right:
The media is in charge of "splashing all over". I saw the pictures, so they were available for splashing, if anyone wanted to. Apparently, few did, either way.
Why not? Perhaps because the kid is leaving the country?
The "buzz" ended immediately after that announcement.
I think the meeting was before that. The buzz was over before either.
Initial incident was in Sept. Met Obama on Oct 19th and announced leaving Oct 20.
The press probably dropped it because it became just another false alarm. After starting out with all the makings of a juicy story they could panic folks with it was a dud.
I think Obama met with him as a gesture that not all Muslims, for that matter not all foreigners/immigrants/swarthy people, are bomb throwing terrorists.
The press dropped it because it wasn't a positive for Obama.
The press dropped it because it wasn't a positive for Obama.
Or a negative.
See, there is no confirmable answer, so fertile ground for opinions based on prejudices and conspiracy theories, though everyone feels their opinion is based on reason and logic.
their opinion is based on reason and logic.
... and they very well may be, probably are. Still doesn't mean either one is correct.
There are no guarantees.
OTOH, HM is right also - were it a negative, they've dropped those pretty quickly as well.
“Ahmed fears for his physical safety after receiving many threatening emails,” reads the letter. “When they feel safe again, all of them want more than anything to come home, to Irving, Texas,”
That'll be a cold day in hell. Besides, why should this family feel safe in Texas when nobody else does.
And they feel safer in Qatar? :eyebrow:
I hope they win. It's a lawsuit, so of course they'll play up the harm, but the school and the mayor acted shamefully, and it should be expensive to do that.
Expensive to the kids still at the school, since they are the only ones who will actually suffer from any loss of funds.
I didn't go to the link, but there was a short article in the paper this morning. It's not a lawsuit. Not yet. It's a threatening shakedown letter from the attorney.
And it's bullshit. The cop and the principal behaved poorly, but not $15M worth of poorly. If it became a lawsuit and I was on the jury, I'd rule in favor of the child and give him $5K from the city for the false arrest, which sounds like a lot, even to me, but is one 3 thousandth of what his attorney is asking for. I'd give him nothing from the school district. I think he deserved a detention for the class disruption, and he got a suspension instead, but that's a principal's prerogative.
I'm liking this kid and his family less and less, but that doesn't mean the cop and the principal behaved well.
Expensive to the kids still at the school, since they are the only ones who will actually suffer from any loss of funds.
And eventually the taxpayers who voted in one of the most islamophobic mayors in the country.
Expensive to the kids still at the school, since they are the only ones who will actually suffer from any loss of funds.
Some teachers and staff will be laid off if the school district has a $5M shortfall. Librarians, art teachers, music teachers, aides. Those types of jobs.
And eventually the taxpayers who voted in one of the most islamophobic mayors in the country.
Who will not, in any way, associate their punishment with their own actions. They will in fact associate it with the aforementioned Islamic people, and vote in an even more reactionary mayor.
For someone who understands very well how overly punitive actions backfire in both the prison system and with foreign affairs, you have always been surprisingly idealistic and blind to the way schools work (an opinion based on more than just this conversation, for what it's worth.)
If there were a better way to deter this behavior, that would be great.
I'm happy to be considered idealistic, but financial punishment like this seems to be just about the least idealistic approach possible. I'd even consider my opinion of the school board and the town to be fairly cynical, in that fear of financial penalties is more likely to work than moral or ethical arguments.
The "better way" is to get rid of zero-tolerance policies in schools, to train teachers to use common sense instead of forcing them to take teenage hoaxes seriously.
For the family's part, the "better way" is to stay in town and prove you are a valued part of the community, instead of uprooting and moving to a country that enforces Sharia Law and doesn't educate girls. Also, to acknowledge that your embarrassment and inconvenience, while both embarrassing and inconvenient, are not worth $15 million dollars.
Shortly post-9/11, the comedian Dave Attell got removed from an airplane because someone thought he looked too Arabic (he's Jewish.) You know what he did? Nothing. He was embarrassed, inconvenienced, and he didn't try to get $15 million dollars out of it.
Recently a white police officer (in Detroit, I believe,) was faced with an increasingly hostile situation with a group of teens on a street corner. Rather than escalate, she engaged in a dancing contest with one of the teens and defused the situation.
There are a million other examples. All hot-button situations are better when they are defused, not escalated. Prove that you are better than the Other Guy's opinion of you, and he will start to believe it. Retaliate, and you've made it worse.
That sounds much more idealistic, not less.
I think he deserved a detention for the class disruption, and he got a suspension instead, but that's a principal's prerogative.
What class disruption. An alarm on my watch goes off. A cell phone rings. That also requires detention for class disruption?
The whole thing exists because multiple adults were emotional multiple times. Every fact was ignored because adult were emotional. Then penalties increased because adult were even more emotional. So emotional as to refuse to admit how foolish and wrong they had been.
I have no problem penalizing the school system for hiring adults who repeatedly acted emotional like children. $15 million is excessive. But I would not be surprised if he got one year of free college tuition. These adults were so emotional (illogical) as to even make international news. Their school board should be reviewing other decisions by these employees for a pattern of emotionally justified decisions. If not, a lawsuit is clearly justified if the school board is also complicit - also acting emotionally.
They screwed up. Take responsibility for being so emotional. Instead they want to deny everything including their painfully obvious and repeated mistakes. If not, that is why lawsuits are necessary.
Clodfobble recommends taking the high road. Both are options. But little tolerance exists for adult who act like children. An adult would have openly admitted their mistake and apologized. Those adults who are still children could not even do that.
That sounds much more idealistic, not less.
Perhaps "simplistic" would have been a better choice of words. Solutions do not come in neat monetary packages, no matter their size.
The "better way" is to get rid of zero-tolerance policies in schools, to train teachers to use common sense instead of forcing them to take teenage hoaxes seriously.
There was no hoax.
Zero-tolerance policies are in place because school districts think it protects them from liability, because "their hands were tied". Until it's more expensive to maintain a zero-tolerance policy, the policy will remain.
There was no hoax.
On that, we still disagree. I think at best the kid was an unknowing pawn in his father's game.
Until it's more expensive to maintain a zero-tolerance policy, the policy will remain.
No, because even $15 million, even sought by every kid who faces even the slightest discrimination, will still never outstrip the financial liability of a cafeteria full of blown-up kids. In Newtown, Connecticut, various Sandy Hook Elementary victims and their families have sued the
city, the gun
manufacturer, the shooter's
dead mother's insurance company, and, of course,
the school. One lawyer of a kid who didn't even die sued the school for unspecified millions because someone in the office turned on the intercom as the gunman entered the building (presumably to warn the classrooms of what was coming,) and the child heard "violence" and other "disturbing sounds" over the speaker, which traumatized her.
Being a non-lawyer, my interpretation of shot-gun law suites is...
The judge and/or jury can hear a case with multiple defendents,
and, on their own, assign fractional responsibility.
So, not-withstanding how deep the pockets, the city, state, school,
LE Officer, gun-manufacturer, gun-seller, parents-of-shooter,
insurance companies, ... one or all can be proportionally responsible.
(Of course, the LLD's are never at risk and always get first bite.)
LLB and LLD - Bachelor's and Doctor's of Law
IOW, your friendly attorney down the street.
LLB and LLD - Bachelor's and Doctor's of Law
IOW, your friendly attorney down the street.
Then what is a JD?
Different countries have different degrees.
Most lawyers in the US are JDs.
LLB and LLD (which doesn't exist anymore and was replaced by LLM) is mostly a fuzzy ferriner thing.
But the specific degrees don't matter so much, what really matters is if they are members of the bar.
In theory, could I join the bar and be licensed to practice law even if I just read a lot and never went to law school?
That used to be the case, but isn't any more. It's a law school scam.
I stand corrected. :blush:
Rereading all these posts I don't see any of the words I use to describe lawyers. :eyebrow:
In theory, could I join the bar and be licensed to practice law even if I just read a lot and never went to law school?
That used to be the case, but isn't any more. It's a law school scam.
How to be a lawyer without going to law school.