Needing People
The men in my family are always mostly friendless (excepting a small hand-full of really close, but still at arms length, friends). I don't know where it comes from, but we have something ingrained in us that makes us think that needing people is a weakness and being warm toward people is dangerous. We can come off as cold, distant, sober, ..., (I think you get the idea).
We know that belief is bunk, but it is very effective at keeping us closed off. And when we manage to turn it off we're pretty solid people persons.
My maternal grandfather, his son (my uncle) and myself are the most extreme examples of this. We don't speak unless we have something to say, and even then we might not say anything.
It's hard for people who aren't intimately familiar with the way men in my family are to grasp this. This is fine for my grandfather he's been married to my grandmother for 50 years, and for my uncle who's on his second marriage, but for me...
Let's just say I'm not entirely happy with my relationship situation. And I think it's mostly due to this personality characteristic. It's so ingrained that I'm sure there's no way to remove the trait from myself, so I'm just looking for ways to minimize the impact it has on my day-to-day interactions.
I was going to ask for advice, but I'm not sure there's anything to be done.
I'm having the most introspective month of my entire fucking life, and it's driving me mad.
Well lets start with for not talking too much, you just said an awful lot. I, for one, have enjoyed reading your posts here.
he is having a very extroverted introspective month. if not here, then where?
i think he's trying to say that he likes clint eastwood movies
Babysteps Grant!!!
Why dont you just say....."I'm going to smile at a different random person everyday",or "I'm going to make polite conversation with someone I dont know today".
I have the opposite problem, I'm every bodies best friend within 2 minutes of meeting them. Totally extroverted and a bit full on, which tends to make me a bit needy at times...but I am learning n changing slowly :)
I thought about meeting a lot of people and being very social, but then I remembered, I don't care for a lot of people, and being social would drive me up the fuckin' wall.
[SIZE=1]present company excepted of course, cellar people generally rock. but the general public, what a bunch of rude power-hungry assholes, fuck them.[/SIZE]
I'd rather be close to a few people and know that they are true friends than be friendly with many. Thats why I'm an animal lover - The more people I meet the less I like more people.
Grunt.
You got any more beer?
Thanks man.
We don't speak unless we have something to say, and even then we might not say anything.
Introversion is not a disease. You must resist efforts to "cure" you.
Let's just say I'm not entirely happy with my relationship situation. And I think it's mostly due to this personality characteristic.
Well, if you think you could manage to move to Fort Worth, Texas, I do have a shy sister-in-law who is looking for the strong, silent type. It's unfortunate that an introverted person looking to meet another introverted person is a bit like a quadriplegic on a snipe hunt.
It's unfortunate that an introverted person looking to meet another introverted person is a bit like a quadriplegic on a snipe hunt.
COOKIE!!
I don't have a very huge circle of friends. Just a couple of close g/f's. Then there's my family which is huge. Maybe that's why I don't worry too much with other friendship type relationships. Because I don't need to.
As long as your needs are being fulfilled, you shouldn't compare yourself to what anyone else's idea of a friendship circle should be. Just make yourself happy. If you need more friends, just go get some. ;)
You need to move to the UK. You'll fit in perfectly.
I don't see a problem, Grant.
If I could get through a day on three words I would. Sounds like somebody put a bug in your head that this isn't right.
Took me a while but I finally realized that the only person that knows what's right for me is... me.
Hm... Do you have a significant other? That for one, might make you, how shall I put it, less "wanting to seek out" other people for social compionship. Heck, when I'm with my girlfriend I'm all set and happier than anything. I too have only a couple close friends, but I still am pretty friendly to acquaintances, but total strangers I pretty much ignore unless they notice me.
Do you find it hard to deal with these strangers?
That's my biggest gripe in my own socialness as well.
i think he's trying to say that he likes clint eastwood movies
The only Clint Eastwood movie I like is "Million Dollar Baby." And that's mostly because the Missouri people in that movie are eerily familiar.
Introversion is not a disease. You must resist efforts to "cure" you.
I try, but it often seems our society rewards extroverts out of proportion to introverts. So the "rational" side of me says I should just change. Not that easy.
I don't see a problem, Grant.
If I could get through a day on three words I would. Sounds like somebody put a bug in your head that this isn't right.
Took me a while but I finally realized that the only person that knows what's right for me is... me.
I guess my while is still ticking.
Well lets start with for not talking too much, you just said an awful lot. I, for one, have enjoyed reading your posts here.
Thanks, ym065.
Hm... Do you have a significant other? That for one, might make you, how shall I put it, less "wanting to seek out" other people for social compionship. Heck, when I'm with my girlfriend I'm all set and happier than anything. I too have only a couple close friends, but I still am pretty friendly to acquaintances, but total strangers I pretty much ignore unless they notice me.
Do you find it hard to deal with these strangers?
I'm single, and I don't deal with strangers very well. And I've moved around enough that my close friends are all elsewhere.
I've never been lonely a day in my life until a couple months ago. That's when the silence became painful.
You need to move to the UK. You'll fit in perfectly.
I've looked into it and would, but in order to get a work visa you have to have a sponsoring employer there, and in order to get an employer there you have to be in country or already have a work visa. As I understand it.
Well, if you think you could manage to move to Fort Worth, Texas, I do have a shy sister-in-law who is looking for the strong, silent type. It's unfortunate that an introverted person looking to meet another introverted person is a bit like a quadriplegic on a snipe hunt.
Yeah, I could manage to "move" anywhere. And I'm looking to move. I just have this stupid responsible streak that won't let me just pack up and take off without a plan.
Also, I'm not necessarily looking for introverts, though that would probably be best. An extrovert that understands introverts would work too, but I think thats probably harder to find than a snipe.
Just make yourself happy.
I'm basically happy. Sometimes, I just start to feel sorry for myself in the evenings.
Why dont you just say....."I'm going to smile at a different random person everyday",or "I'm going to make polite conversation with someone I dont know today".
That's a healthier approach than the one I normally use.
I have the opposite problem, I'm every bodies best friend within 2 minutes of meeting them. Totally extroverted and a bit full on
Why don't I find that hard to believe?
(I don't think I've not responded to anyone. Maybe I'll have some groundbreaking thoughts at the gym.)
Great article about this that I found a few years ago.
That is great - thank you.
I forget I am an introvert sometimes, because the term is misused to mean shy or lacking confidence.
I feel ready to celebrate it again now!
Grant--don't think I'm being flip, but do you at all think your feelings have anything to do with it being January? The weather has a huge effect on my own moods. Jan/Feb and March are hard for me unless it's sunny out---and it never is. You say you are feeling it around the evenings---what are you doing? watching TV? reading? Music? There's nothing lonelier than twilight in Jan/Feb/March! I try to flood my senses--embroidery with the TV on, lots of lights and I FORCE myself to make dinner. A real dinner. When I am at my worst, I won't even bother to open a can of condensed soup as it's too much trouble. Just some ideas.
Like UT, I don't like many people either. I find people boring or rude or both. I've learned to live alone (with my teenage son, so maybe that doesn';t quite count) and I doubt very much if I could now stand living with another adult. Yikes.
Excellent article!
As for meeting people, maybe when you are feeling lonely, go to a local coffee shop or library and sit by someone who is sitting alone. A simple smile given and recieved would probably be enough to make you feel a little better. And, if you're feeling really crazy, even say hello. :) Bring a book (or grab one off the shelf) as a conversation starter, or as a back up activity if you change your mind about being social.
Great article about this that I found a few years ago.
Yeah, I've read that article a few times. It usually just pisses me off.
Grant--don't think I'm being flip, but do you at all think your feelings have anything to do with it being January? The weather has a huge effect on my own moods. Jan/Feb and March are hard for me unless it's sunny out---and it never is. You say you are feeling it around the evenings---what are you doing? watching TV? reading? Music? There's nothing lonelier than twilight in Jan/Feb/March! I try to flood my senses--embroidery with the TV on, lots of lights and I FORCE myself to make dinner. A real dinner. When I am at my worst, I won't even bother to open a can of condensed soup as it's too much trouble. Just some ideas.
I usually read, watch a movie, pine for the fjords, or catch up on bloglines and the Cellar as I've been doing lately.
I used to wonder if it was the weather, but I don't think that's it. I think I'm allergic to suburban sprawl.
As for meeting people, maybe when you are feeling lonely, go to a local coffee shop or library and sit by someone who is sitting alone. A simple smile given and recieved would probably be enough to make you feel a little better. And, if you're feeling really crazy, even say hello. :) Bring a book (or grab one off the shelf) as a conversation starter, or as a back up activity if you change your mind about being social.
More good advice. Thanks, LabRat.
Strange bird from a different nest
Flying low not like all of the rest
If you can't catch him you can't name him
If you can't see him you can't claim him
Stay on the ground or he will shoot you down
Wings on his heart, he's a strange bird
I am a strange bird, too. :)
Second, when you see an introvert lost in thought, don't say "What's the matter?" or "Are you all right?"
I have a friend I work with who I wish understood that sometimes I am just lost in thought (as opposed to times when I am the office clown) and asking me if everything is OK is akin to pushing me in front of a moving bus. :D
I've just printed out "I'm an introvert. You are a wonderful person and I like you. But now please shush" to go behind my desk.
Along with explodingdog's
You Can't Make Me Cry Today.
Yes they think I'm slightly odd. No, I don't care all that much.
Along with explodingdog's You Can't Make Me Cry Today.
Those are awesome, thanks for the pointer.
There are more suicides in January than any other month of the year.
The men in my family are always mostly friendless (excepting a small hand-full of really close, but still at arms length, friends). I don't know where it comes from, but we have something ingrained in us that makes us think that needing people is a weakness and being warm toward people is dangerous. We can come off as cold, distant, sober, ..., (I think you get the idea).
We know that belief is bunk, but it is very effective at keeping us closed off. And when we manage to turn it off we're pretty solid people persons.
My maternal grandfather, his son (my uncle) and myself are the most extreme examples of this. We don't speak unless we have something to say, and even then we might not say anything.
It's hard for people who aren't intimately familiar with the way men in my family are to grasp this. This is fine for my grandfather he's been married to my grandmother for 50 years, and for my uncle who's on his second marriage, but for me...
Let's just say I'm not entirely happy with my relationship situation. And I think it's mostly due to this personality characteristic. It's so ingrained that I'm sure there's no way to remove the trait from myself, so I'm just looking for ways to minimize the impact it has on my day-to-day interactions.
I was going to ask for advice, but I'm not sure there's anything to be done.
I'm having the most introspective month of my entire fucking life, and it's driving me mad.
So, having had time to digest this, I realise that the same is true of the women in my family. The "close" friends we do have tend to be men, and they're still not that close. We just don't do the girly thing (whatever that is). But I've never really thought about it before and it's never really bothered me.
I had a crappy childhood (not really abusive or anything, just bog-standard divorce crappy), but I concentrated on dealing with that rather than making friends. I learned to love when I was an adult, and I never got secure about that until I met beest. (And I still don't do hugs for anyone but my immediate family).
But I only realise that in hindsight. And I realise now that I've only really learned how to make friends since I moved here 6 years ago aged 30. Which I guess is what prompted my comment about England.
Advice? Like you say, there's not a lot really. My advice is not to worry. When the right relationship comes along, you will know and it will suddenly be OK. Trying to be someone else to make a success of a relationship is a recipe for failure. When you need close friends, you will learn how to make them, but right now, you seem cool, just at an emotional low point and wondering if it would be easier if you had a bosom buddy. It most likely wouldn't, so don't beat yourself up over it.
I was a bit like Monster, though the childhood was worse. I kept to myself because dealing with my parents' divorce and then being abused for years took some dealing with. I was teased a lot growing up, and it was just easier to keep to myself and a very few friends.
In college, though, I got away from all of the things that had made being more social difficult for me before. I was able to recreate myself and become someone completely new, free of preconceived reputation. Thus was born the extrovert I am now.
As some of you read over in my thread, I'm going through a really excruciating breakup and have retreated somewhat into that introvert shell. The really, really ironic thing to this is that the man who just broke up with me is an introvert, and I'm coming to realize, after reading that article, that I did everything wrong as it relates to him as an introvert. I wish I had had that article a year ago :(
a random thought that came into my email this morning.
What a difference a sad event in someone's life makes.
GEORGE CARLIN (His wife recently died...)
Isn't it amazing that George Carlin - comedian of the 70's and 80's - could write something so very eloquent...and so very appropriate
A Message by George Carlin:
The paradox of our time in history is that we have taller buildings but shorter tempers, wider Freeways , but narrower viewpoints. We spend more, but have less, we buy more, but enjoy less. We have bigger houses and smaller families, more conveniences, but less time. We have more degrees but less sense, more knowledge, but less judgment, more experts, yet more problems, more medicine, but less wellness.
We drink too much, smoke too much, spend too recklessly, laugh too little, drive too fast, get too angry, stay up too late, get up too tired, read too little, watch TV too much, and pray too seldom.
We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our values. We talk too much, love too seldom, and hate too often.
We've learned how to make a living, but not a life. We've added years to life not life to years. We've been all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble crossing the street to meet a new neighbor. We conquered outer space but not inner space. We've done larger things, but not better things.
We've cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul. We've conquered the atom, but not our prejudice. We write more, but learn less. We plan more, but accomplish less. We've learned to rush, but not to wait. We build more computers to hold more information, to produce more copies than ever, but we communicate less and less.
These are the times of fast foods and slow digestion, big men and small character, steep profits and shallow relationships. These are the days of two incomes but more divorce, fancier houses, but broken homes. These are days of quick trips, disposable diapers, throwaway morality, one night stands, overweight bodies, and pills that do everything from cheer, to quiet, to kill. It is a time when there is much in the showroom window and nothing in the stockroom. A time when technology can bring this letter to you, and a time when you can choose either to share this insight, or to just hit delete...
Remember; spend some time with your loved ones, because they are not going to be around forever.
Remember, say a kind word to someone who looks up to you in awe, because that little person soon will grow up and leave your side.
Remember, to give a warm hug to the one next to you, because that is the only treasure you can give with your heart and it doesn't cost a cent.
Remember, to say, "I love you" to your partner and your loved ones, but most of all mean it. A kiss and an embrace will mend hurt when it comes from deep inside of you.
Remember to hold hands and cherish the moment for someday that person will not be there again.
Give time to love, give time to speak! And give time to share the precious thoughts in your mind.
AND ALWAYS REMEMBER:
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
George Carlin
On
George Carlin's website, he refers to this as "a sappy load of shit." He didn't write it and is unhappy that it is attributed to him.
Whether he wrote it or not, some people still pause for thought. Those that want to say, including him (?) that it is a "sappy load of shit" have other issues and I feel in the category stated therein of not giving a damn about what really matters in life. Perhaps?
I hear you, Perry Winkle, and I struggle with this too. (are you still listening?).
I'm naturally an extreme introvert, but I've come to realize its not healthy to be by yourself all the time. It's important for mental health and longevity to connect with people.
That article was actually very interesting to me. I've always been the introverted sort, sure I'm friendly, but making friends doesn't come easily to me because I find small talk extremely uncomfortable and I always tend to feel awkward in big groups. It's always, ALWAYS nice to be reminded that there are other people out there like me.
Being 20 years old, and not drinking or smoking or doing drugs or wanting to party makes me a bit of an outcast as well. Yes, I'm aware these are good choices, that's why I'm making them...but it doesn't stop me from getting those "looks" from other people when they find out. Doesn't make it any easier to find people that I want to hang around with.
Overall I'm happy with my life, I do get lonely sometimes because at this point I have literally no friends outside of my family and current boyfriend, but most of my family are introverted like me too...
I figure, if I find people I'm happy and content being around (without feeling like I'm changing who I am to do it) then great...if not, I've got a great family and a wonderful boyfriend. Life's good. :)
The men in my family are always mostly friendless (excepting a small hand-full of really close, but still at arms length, friends). I don't know where it comes from, but we have something ingrained in us that makes us think that needing people is a weakness and being warm toward people is dangerous. We can come off as cold, distant, sober, ..., (I think you get the idea).
We know that belief is bunk, but it is very effective at keeping us closed off. And when we manage to turn it off we're pretty solid people persons.
My maternal grandfather, his son (my uncle) and myself are the most extreme examples of this. We don't speak unless we have something to say, and even then we might not say anything.
It's hard for people who aren't intimately familiar with the way men in my family are to grasp this. This is fine for my grandfather he's been married to my grandmother for 50 years, and for my uncle who's on his second marriage, but for me...
Let's just say I'm not entirely happy with my relationship situation. And I think it's mostly due to this personality characteristic. It's so ingrained that I'm sure there's no way to remove the trait from myself, so I'm just looking for ways to minimize the impact it has on my day-to-day interactions.
I was going to ask for advice, but I'm not sure there's anything to be done.
I'm having the most introspective month of my entire fucking life, and it's driving me mad.
But the question still remains:
Are you cold, distant, and sober? Some people are just quiet and introverted, but you are sounding a little pompous. Do you socially act like other people are innately flawed, and you are on some sort of moral or intellectual high ground?
I'm probably wrong about the pompous part. But it looks like no one so far has bothered to even ask. You may act that way but how close to the truth is it?
:D
What makes you unhappy with your relationship status? Do you have one?
Cic the thread is an old one that had been ressurected, I believe the situation has changed.
Cic the thread is an old one that had been ressurected, I believe the situation has changed.
Yup, he took Monster's advice and moved to the UK, where we're all like that!
Wow. Ancient history.
January 2007 was one of the worst months of my life...
But the question still remains: Are you cold, distant, and sober? Some people are just quiet and introverted, but you are sounding a little pompous. Do you socially act like other people are innately flawed, and you are on some sort of moral or intellectual high ground?
I'm probably wrong about the pompous part. But it looks like no one so far has bothered to even ask. You may act that way but how close to the truth is it?
:D
What makes you unhappy with your relationship status? Do you have one?
I am cold, distant, sober, and some other things; however, it's usually secondary to being nervous or otherwise uncomfortable. My first real romantic relationship started over a year ago and I discovered some real surprises about myself. I found that I am a very warm, caring, supportive, loving, and considerate person.
I don't act like I'm better than everyone else. I freely acknowledge that I'm very good at some things (without being boastful or cocky), and this makes some people feel bad about themselves. But that's really their problem not mine.
In balance, I'm also very self-critical (I'm critical in general, though I try to keep it positive) and broadcast my failures more than my successes. People seem to see it as (gratuitous) self-deprecation.
Can't win, I guess.
Quite a few years ago, when I was growing into my brain, I was fairly pompous and pretentious. The only real personality quirk that still bites me are my ingrained loner habits, for instance: I'm so used to being alone, that being with someone sometimes feels a little too much -- something as simple as a hug can be the difference between comfortable and triggering my flight response.
Being in a relationship is harder than being single and so much more rewarding.
My first real romantic relationship started over a year ago and I discovered some real surprises about myself. I found that I am a very warm, caring, supportive, loving, and considerate person.
:D
Awww!!
lol! Sounds like you've figured out a couple more things since this came up!
Sometimes relationships are good for exposing our good sides..
...
Being in a relationship is harder than being single and so much more rewarding.
You've learnt a lot and have a lot to teach folks now, Perry Winkle! Good for you!
I try, but it often seems our society rewards extroverts out of proportion to introverts. So the "rational" side of me says I should just change. Not that easy.
There are indeed a lot of rewards to being extroverted. I am. I can talk amiably and/or civilly to almost anyone. Handy for my work, which is also a job that brings out any "people" traits you've got. The wife is altogether persuaded that dogs just love me. I guess she's never seen the really hostile ones.
But it really comes and goes; I'm no more a permanent gladhanding shiny happy people than the next guy and possibly rather less so. It's a mood thing rather than an ongoing attitude, though. Comes of a desire to keep it real.