Student shot with Taser by UCPD officers
Youtube # 5g7zlJx9u2E
Welcome to post Anti-Patriot Act USA.
"Where are your papers?"
[BREAKING NEWS]: Student shot with Taser by UCPD officers
Incident occured around 11:30 p.m. in the Powell Library CLICC computer lab
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UCPD officers shot a student several times with a Taser inside the Powell Library CLICC computer lab late Tuesday night before taking him into custody.
No university police officers were available to comment further about the incident as of 3 a.m. Wednesday, and no Community Service Officers who were on duty at the time could be reached.
At around 11:30 p.m., CSOs asked a male student using a computer in the back of the room to leave when he was unable to produce a BruinCard during a random check. The student did not exit the building immediately.
The CSOs left, returning minutes later, and police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go. A second officer then approached the student as well.
The student began to yell "get off me," repeating himself several times.
It was at this point that the officers shot the student with a Taser for the first time, causing him to fall to the floor and cry out in pain. The student also told the officers he had a medical condition.
UCPD officers confirmed that the man involved in the incident was a student, but did not give a name or any additional information about his identity.
Video shot from a student's camera phone captured the student yelling, "Here's your Patriot Act, here's your fucking abuse of power," while he struggled with the officers.
As the student was screaming, UCPD officers repeatedly told him to stand up and said "stop fighting us." The student did not stand up as the officers requested and they shot him with the Taser at least once more.
"It was the most disgusting and vile act I had ever seen in my life," said David Remesnitsky, a 2006 UCLA alumnus who witnessed the incident.
As the student and the officers were struggling, bystanders repeatedly asked the police officers to stop, and at one point officers told the gathered crowd to stand back and threatened to use a Taser on anyone who got too close.
Laila Gordy, a fourth-year economics student who was present in the library during the incident, said police officers threatened to shoot her with a Taser when she asked an officer for his name and his badge number.
Gordy was visibly upset by the incident and said other students were also disturbed.
"It's a shock that something like this can happen at UCLA," she said. "It was unnecessary what they did."
Immediately after the incident, several students began to contact local news outlets, informing them of the incident, and Remesnitsky wrote an e-mail to Interim Chancellor Norman Abrams.
With reports from Lisa Connolly, Derek Lipkin and Saba Riazati, Bruin senior staff.
A clip of what happened:
[youtube]W3CdNgoC0cE[/youtube]
Damn... that's pretty crazy.
Jesus fuckin' CHRIST.
Fuck that, man. Theyre gonna be cops for maybe another... three days.
Connecting this with the Patriot Act and/or Homeland Security is ridiculous.
Not if you believe that soon ALL cops will be like this, because each thing like the Patriot act that gets passed is yet another foundation of your rights being destroyed...
[COLOR="Silver"]
(disclaimer: I'm not saying that I believe all of that... but I'm not saying I don't believe it.)[/COLOR]
Connecting this with the Patriot Act and/or Homeland Security is ridiculous.
Bullshit. The government is the authority that sets the tone for what is acceptable in our society.
Not if you believe that soon ALL cops will be like this, because each thing like the Patriot act that gets passed is yet another foundation of your rights being destroyed...
[COLOR="Silver"]
(disclaimer: I'm not saying that I believe all of that... but I'm not saying I don't believe it.)[/COLOR]
You believe it or you wouldn't have said it. You just doubt that a reality so horrible sould actually be unfolding. Welcome to what we asked for.
Parents tell their children the story of "The boy who cried wolf" for a reason.
Parents tell their children the story of...
The Frogs Who Desired a King
...for a reason.
[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="1"]According to the story, a group of frogs lived happily and peacefully in a pond. Over time, however, they became discontented with their way of life, and thought they should have a mighty king to rule over them. They called out to the great god Zeus to send them a king.
Zeus was amused by the frogs' request, and cast a large log down into their pond, saying "Behold, your king!" At first, the frogs were terrified of the huge log, but after seeing that it did not move, they began to climb upon it. Once they realized the log would not move, they called out again to Zeus to send them a real king, one that moved.
Annoyed by the frogs, Zeus said, "Very well, here is your new king," and sent a large stork to the pond. The stork began devouring frogs. In terror, frogs called out to Zeus to save them. Zeus refused, saying the frogs now had what they'd wanted, and had to face the consequences.
To some, the simple lesson of the story is "leave well enough alone," or "be careful what you wish for."
More politically minded readers would interpret the story to mean, "Never give too much power or authority to your rulers." In times of crisis, people may desire a strong ruler to protect them, but a strong ruler can quickly and easily become a tyrant.[/SIZE][/COLOR]
My initial reaction to this without watching the video (it's going to be too obviously NOT work for this time of day!) is that it's an adolescent with an attitude.
If he was using facilities without proper identification he should have left when he was asked to. I know ID cards & such are a contentious issue at present, but restricting access to areas without ID is reasonable and hardly new - it was a student facility and not a public area right?
As he had already proved unwilling to follow a request and responded to a hand on the arm by yelling, I can't help feeling he escalated the situation himself.
Rather than shouting and thrashing about on the floor, if he had followed the requests of the officers and left he would not have been Tasered again.
I accept my opinion may change when I've watched the video, but at present it sounds as if the officers over-reacted, but the student was the one primarily at fault.
That does not appear to be a *popular* fable, and so my statement still applies.
Two-bit University cops tase somebody and it's a Patriot Act thing? I guess the LA riots, just miles away from this location, were brought about by Clinton's lack of respect for the law, just like the right claimed.
:bonk:
:::slow clap::: Yes, there is a mocking, belittling interpretation for what I'm saying here, IE the easy rebuttal to what I'm not actually saying, and then there is the reality-based interpretation a reasonable adult could form: that authority figures, from the top down, set examples for what is acceptable in society. Does that apply directly in this case - is that a provable, direct cause for this, from point A to point B? No, that's not demonstrable, obviously. But, is this direction in society something to be mocked, something to be ignored, something that doesn't really exist? I guess we'll find out. But, hey, I'm sure it's cool. Let's just not talk about it, because it makes us feel icky. Let's go eat some ice cream.
In this case, university cops are real cops.
Rather than shouting and thrashing about on the floor, if he had followed the requests of the officers and left he would not have been Tasered again.
The taser should only be used when the cop feels that someone is in physical danger. Shouting and "thrashing about on the floor" (I didn't see any thrashing about except during the actual tasering) do not qualify.
Not to mention the stupid thuggishness of screaming at someone who has just been tasered to stand up - much less someone who has been tasered multiple times.
This reminds me of the idea of a girl in a miniskirt "asking for" rape.
Let's see..have someone from IT disable that particular computer (and if the University doesn't have the capability to do so they don't need to be in the business...and every single computer Mister Snottypants tries to log onto afterwards)
OR:
Let's be all coppy and dramatic and tough and make a huge newsmaking scene, taser the guy, and look like the big he-men or she-ra cops we think we are?
Oh, let's make a show! WE MUST SEND A CLEAR MESSAGE TO PEOPLE USING LIBRARY COMPUTERS. WE CANNOT STAND FOR THIS. WE MUST STAY THE COURSE. WE NEED TOUGH LEGISLATION.
Give me a fucking break.
Are we pretty sure this wasn't a demonstration to publicize the new "No Child Left Unsubdued" program?
"No Child Left Unsubdued"
I think that one has more to do with the mandatory druggings of children in public schools, as in THX 1138.
(just gotta get used to it)
We all get it in the end
(just gotta get used to it)
We go down and we come up again
(just gotta get used to it)
You irritate me my friend
This is no social crisis
This is you having fun
(no crisis)
Getting burned by the sun
(this is true)
This is no social crisis
Just another tricky day for you
Townshend 1981
:::quotes every other rock song, ever, as a rebuttal:::
OK, what do we know?
Evidently the kid was actually using the computer legally but didn't have his papers in order so they were following procedure when they asked (told) him to leave.
He didn't respond quickly enough for them because he either copped an attitude, was in the middle of a download or was trying to finish a paper due in the morning....... or a combination.
If he copped an attitude, it was because he was an ass or because the campus cops are bullys....likely both.
My personal experience with "enforcement" is the more power the officer has, the less they abuse people. More professional, if you will. The State Police give, nor take, any bullshit, the locals are more prone to being pushy or bullying, and rent-a-cops are complete dicks.
The Patriot act doesn't change that, except to add more people with a little power to the mix, like airport/railroad screeners. Giving them tasers just makes their ongoing abuse more visible. :2cents:
Are we pretty sure this wasn't a demonstration to publicize the new "No Child Left Unsubdued" program?
Brilliant!
Laila Gordy, a fourth-year economics student who was present in the library during the incident, said police officers threatened to shoot her with a Taser when she asked an officer for his name and his badge number
That bit really blew me away.
The Patriot act doesn't change that, except to add more people with a little power to the mix, like airport/railroad screeners.
Giving them tasers just makes their ongoing abuse more visible. :2cents:
As much as the fault is with the offending individual, the example they are following comes from the top. :2cents:
The human brain is built to notice patterns: to connect the dots to form a picture.
Sometimes there is a real pattern. Sometimes they are part of a larger pattern. And sometimes there are just dots.
If you look for a pattern, you will probably find one.
If you are convinced there is a pattern, you will definitely find one.
In March 1991, LA cops tasered Rodney King. They then beat him with sticks, to within an inch of his life. Which "example from the top" was responsible for this action? What of all previous examples of police brutality or overreach? Every one of them is a dot, do you notice a pattern?
Don't lecture me on the illusory nature of human perception. That belongs in the philosophy forum, and I would agree with you.
Let's see..have someone from IT disable that particular computer (and if the University doesn't have the capability to do so they don't need to be in the business...and every single computer Mister Snottypants tries to log onto afterwards)
OR:
Let's be all coppy and dramatic and tough and make a huge newsmaking scene, taser the guy, and look like the big he-men or she-ra cops we think we are?
Oh, let's make a show! WE MUST SEND A CLEAR MESSAGE TO PEOPLE USING LIBRARY COMPUTERS. WE CANNOT STAND FOR THIS. WE MUST STAY THE COURSE. WE NEED TOUGH LEGISLATION.
Give me a fucking break.
Though my thought is definitely flippant, I stand by it. Cut off the guy's access a few times, he'll go home, get his damn card, and remember to bring it...eventually.
Why does society first consider violent recriminations in every single possible situation? Where did we learn this? Obviously it has been recurrent in many societies through the ages, but how does OUR society keep reinforcing this knee-jerk reaction? 3 guesses.
OK, what do we know?
Evidently the kid was actually using the computer legally but didn't have his papers in order so they were following procedure when they asked (told) him to leave.
He didn't respond quickly enough for them because he either copped an attitude, was in the middle of a download or was trying to finish a paper due in the morning....... or a combination.
If he copped an attitude, it was because he was an ass or because the campus cops are bullys....likely both...
For what it's worth, when someone in a position of authority tells me to do something, I do it. There's always time later to sort things out.
This is a no-win situation for the cops. If they let this guy be, and he ends up raping, robbing, or hurting someone, then the cops fucked up. If they enforce the rules, and ensure that he leaves, then the cops fucked up.
For what it's worth, when someone in a position of authority tells me to do something, I do it.
By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack...
If they enforce the rules...
Which "rules" advocate the tasering of bystanders? The "don't ask for my badge number" rule?
Which "rules" advocate the tasering of bystanders? The "don't ask for my badge number" rule?
Did the "what's your badge number" person get tasered?
Did the "what's your badge number" person get tasered?
Did the "I will fucking taser you" officer give them their badge number?
. If they let this guy be, and he ends up raping, robbing, or hurting someone, then the cops fucked up..
Criminal behavior is criminal behavior? (Most rapists, I've seen studies, really)start out as college students who forget their ID a lot. It's been proven. :cool:
If they enforce the rules, and ensure that he leaves, then the cops fucked up.
Um...HUH?
I don't. I don't know the answer to either question.
Criminal behavior is criminal behavior? (Most rapists, I've seen studies, really)start out as college students who forget their ID a lot. It's been proven. :cool: ...
I didn't say there was a direct correlation. I'm just saying that the cops could be perceived as the bad guys either way.
I don't. I don't know the answer to either question.
That's why I asked. I'm not trying to escalate things, here - it was not a rhetorical question.
For what it's worth, when someone in a position of authority tells me to do something, I do it. There's always time later to sort things out.
If a crossing guard tells you to pat your head while rubbing your belly, you do it? Ok, that's silly but do you see my point? I always question if the person telling me I must to do something, has the authority to do that.
This is a no-win situation for the cops. If they let this guy be, and he ends up raping, robbing, or hurting someone, then the cops fucked up. If they enforce the rules, and ensure that he leaves, then the cops fucked up.
That's quite often true, but in this case with the place obviously crowded, I don't think that applies. They were just overzealous in showing this disrespectful whippersnapper who's boss. :whip:
It's not only NOT a direct correlation, it's so far from correlating to the real situation it's not even funny.
Or as Jules would say (WWJS) Ain't no fuckin' ballpark neither
I'm not trying to escalate things, here...
[COLOR="White"]>>>>>>>[/COLOR] :::tasers you, just to be sure:::
This is a no-win situation for the cops.
That's only true if their only two options were a) ignore him or b) taser him.
The taser should only be used when the cop feels that someone is in physical danger. Shouting and "thrashing about on the floor" (I didn't see any thrashing about except during the actual tasering) do not qualify.
Quite right - that was my assumption, not an observation.
Not to mention the stupid thuggishness of screaming at someone who has just been tasered to stand up - much less someone who has been tasered multiple times.
I thought a Taser just gave a jolt of pain. I didn't know it prevented you from standing up. I'm not being sarcastic - I honestly don't know what a Taser does. He screamed as if he was in agony, but was still coherent and mutinous.
This reminds me of the idea of a girl in a miniskirt "asking for" rape.
Fair enough. I think the cops over-reacted rather than actually breaking the law, but I don't know how much force is considered reasonable to remove someone causing a disturbance. Again - not knowing what a Taser does I'm at a disadvantage.
Oh, I've watched with the sound up now BTW. Noisy bugger isn't he?
If we want to connect the dots properly, we should wait for the next shoe to drop.
If the couldn't-get-a-real-cop-job cops are punished, if the lad wins in a lawsuit, if the public reaction is one of horror and not he-deserved-it finger wagging, then we are truly not in a 1984ish fascist situation.
In fact to conceive of Homeland Security as offering us a fascist situation and not merely federal policing in an often-incompetent government is a leap.
One way we know this, is that we feel free to say these things on this thread.
A taser takes you down, complete loss of muscle control. :eek:
hmmm. Just a thought: I hate the campus police. They were no where to be found when a student (male) was kidnapped and carjacked--he managed to get out of his van when the perps got downtown (quite a ways from campus) this happened at 6pm when the parking lot is pretty effing empty. HOWEVER, these same police are there in a second to ticket someone who parks illegally (a 50.00$ fine; parking permits also cost 50.00).
I hate them.
that said, knowing that these people are wannabe's, I'd do what they asked and throw in plenty of "sir's" and "ma'am's". They require that. easy-peasy.\
Kid lacks life experience. Doesn't mean he needs to be tased. He just needs to get a life. Reminds me of Python: "Now we see the violence inherit in the system!"
"Now we see the violence inherit in the system!"
If everyone is certain there is a libertarian crisis, there is no libertarian crisis. A libertarian crisis happens when we are not concerned and not paying attention.
I was in the Libertarian Party and I was real concerned about getting the word out on the various libertarian crises happening all around us every day. You could not blink and not see another one. They were all around us. From the Polish immigrant who lost all the value of his land and thus his savings, when his backyard was declared a "wetlands" and it wasn't; to the FBI sniper shooting an innocent man's wife between the eyes at Ruby Ridge; to the average tax rate increasing from 10% to 50% over 70 years. My God, Can These Things Happen In America?
Now that I'm a little older and wiser, I notice that these are mostly not horrible trends and crises, but pockets of incompetency, injustice, How The System Actually Works, and plain old "shit happens". When combined with a little of my naivete at how things work, these became mountains.
So I guess my advice is, Don't Panic
Kid lacks life experience. Doesn't mean he needs to be tased. He just needs to get a life. Reminds me of Python: "Now we see the violence inherit in the system!"
I'll take your Python and raise you a Ghostbuster:
"Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider, huh?"
If everyone is certain there is a libertarian crisis, there is no libertarian crisis. A libertarian crisis happens when we are not concerned and not paying attention.
If you define "everyone" as a small pocket of habitual internet debaters, and the alarmist, but obscure, journalistic pieces they quote, then sure, "everyone" is concerned and paying attention. I simply question whether you can project your own personal alertness on the rest of society.
So I guess my advice is, Don't Panic
Not panicking out of ignorance isn't the same as an informed person, like yourself, not panicking.
I would like to see the 10 minutes before that video starts, which would give the situational context to understand why the Taser was used.
If a crossing guard tells you to pat your head while rubbing your belly, you do it? ...
No, but if she told me to stay on the sidewalk, and I crossed the street anyway, I would expect to get tasered in my ass.
Why were they doing random student id checks in the library in the first place? Do you have to be 21 now before you can study at a library table, or something like that?
The Frogs Who Desired a King
Is this tale more popular?
Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plough his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day." (I Samuel 8:7-18)
I'd say we were warned.
Why were they doing random student id checks in the library in the first place? Do you have to be 21 now before you can study at a library table, or something like that?
I don't know how things work there, but am assuming on a fairly open campus they do spot checks to make sure people using the facilities are actually students.
No, but if she told me to stay on the sidewalk, and I crossed the street anyway, I would expect to get tasered in my ass.
You would! :eek: Tasered? Man, when I become an evil tyrant I want you as one of my subjects.
Kid plans lawsuit
via Fark:
An account of a UCLA-student message board from someone who witnessed the event:
"Yes, I was indeed at Powell Library at approximately 11:30 on Tuesday night, and yes I did see the entire event as it went down.
Let me start off by saying that the guy DEFINITELY was asking to get his ass kicked. He was being extremely rude with the campus patrol guys (who are college students...this was before the real UCPD got called in). He was not complying with their requests to leave the premises, and he was definitely itching for a fight. I actually know the guy and a few of his friends, and I can tell you that he's the kind of guy that loves to make trouble.
Just as a little backstory, one of the quotes the guy has on his facebook (which he now has taken down) was "I like to find the most difficult solutions to the simplest of problems".
via that LA Times story
UCLA also said that Tabatabainejad refused repeated requests by a community service officer and regular campus police to provide identification or to leave.
...
He said that Tabatabainejad, when asked for his ID after 11 p.m. Tuesday, declined because he thought he was being singled out because of his Middle Eastern appearance. Yagman said Tabatabainejad is of Iranian descent but is a U.S.-born resident of Los Angeles.
The lawyer said Tabatabainejad eventually decided to leave the library but when an officer refused the student's request to take his hand off him, the student fell limp to the floor, again to avoid participating in what he considered a case of racial profiling. After police started firing the Taser, Tabatabainejad tried to "get the beating, the use of brutal force, to stop by shouting and causing people to watch. Generally, police don't want to do their dirties in front of a lot of witnesses."
Of course, none of this excuses any kind of bad police work by bad cops.
If he's on the ground, refusing to get up and leave, how is tasering him so he can't get up going to help? :rolleyes:
Just because it gets my knickers in a twist:
"Now you see the violence inherent in the system."
If he's on the ground, refusing to get up and leave, how is tasering him so he can't get up going to help? :rolleyes:
Didn't you ever give your little brother a pinch to shut him up and ended up creating more racket?
Not that I'm advocating that as a recommended approach for law enforcement. Sigh - it didn't work then and it doesn't work now.
The cops are "under review" with pay, not suspended. That IS the violence inherent in the system.
He did not refuse to leave, he did not attack them... that is the end of the story. They are trained with tazers, they know that once you are hit you may not be able to use all of your muscles. Just because you can talk means nothing in relation to this. What he said to them also means nothing. Having people be polite to them is not their job.
If he's on the ground, refusing to get up and leave, how is tasering him so he can't get up going to help?
It's hard to tell in the video, but to me, it looks like he's laying on the floor, they are saying
repeatedly, "Stand up, or you will be tasered again," and after about a dozen repetitions of this, they taser him the second time--and while screaming, he leaps to his feet and begins to move out just fine. Uncoordinated, still fighting--but the taser is what
got him on his feet. I think his muscle control was just fine, and like the student witness said, he was laying "helpless" on the floor (defying the cops) looking for a larger audience.
Looked to me like he was spasming and they were dragging him. Looked nothing like a "walk" to me at all. As soon as they stop tazing him, he drops back to the floor.
Tasering will not make you jump up and walk, in fact it will make it impossible for a short time. :confused:
Injustice in the system aside I'm secretly thinking "YES! Hit him just one more time for good measure!". Even though I don't know the asshole I almost wish I was there to watch the cops shove his attitude back down his throat. I HATE kids like that, and the fact that he decided to cause a ruckus in a library because he thinks that he has a free pass on following the rules because of his ethnicity just adds some spice to his noxious personality. The cops may have stepped out of line, but at least they made their mistake on someone who had it comming anyway.
Don't you love how the first thing that jumps out of his mouth when someone takes him up on being slimebucket is how he is being abused under the Patriot Act? Ah yes, the universal fall back line takes form.
yeah, had he been armed like the asshat at the peewee football game this whole thing wouldn't have played out like this. On the other hand why didn't the asshoel just produce his ID?
The cops may have been over the top, but douchebag probably should have read (what I'd bet my left nut is in the school kids owner's manual) You must present your ID when asked.
the thread could be retitled "douchbags on parade"
Whatever, the kid was an asshat, the cops were reacting to his asshattery. both were amateurs. I'd hope the cops being a modicum more professional might have acted with more restraint and let the guy make a big scene with out feeding his crazy ego by playing his game. Again, whatever. you win a few and you lose a few.
BTW, I know how to spell better than anyone here, I jsut don't give a shti tonight
Problem is, it is the cops JOB to practice restraint and not their right or job to be respected.
They do not have to like what he said, they had no right to taze him, end of story.
No, they didn't...but DAMN it felt good watching it:D
Y'know.....at my university campus, if I forget my student pass, I am still allowed to use the facilities. If I want to go into the library, I have to go through an electric barrier which is opened with said pass....if I forget it, I am buzzed in by the library receptionist. They do that three times within a semester and after that they refuse....you go home and get your pass then come back. Without either a pass, or being buzzed in by reception staff, there is no way to access the library.
In the computer hubs, we don't need a pass......we just have to log on with our student id and password, (which is easy enough to remember). I have never in all my time there been asked to produce ID, except when enrolling and in order to open the electric barrier to the library. This isn't a small university. There are many thousands of students and the campus covers a huge part of the city of Leeds.
There are a small number of police and security people stationed on the campus, in order to provide protection and security, primarily to those living in halls of residence.
Why do your university police have tasers? Have you had a large problem with criminal and violent behaviour amongst your student population?
My mother's question:
Why didn't anyone do anything? They stood there and recorded it, but didnt DO anything about it.
My mother's question:
Why didn't anyone do anything? They stood there and recorded it, but didnt DO anything about it.
Did she mean do anything about the cops attacking a student, or do anything about Congress passing the Patriot Act?
Hahahahahahahahahaha
The cops
You would! :eek: Tasered? Man, when I become an evil tyrant I want you as one of my subjects.
If Maggie was the crossing guard, I would expect to get shot in the ass!
When I was in school I always carried my student ID. For a long time after, also ... discount movie ticket prices are nothing to sneeze at.
I'm not condoning what the cops did. I'm just sayin' that *I* would not have gotten tased because *I* would have left the first time. There's always time later to address the cops. If my project is late, it's because *I* fucked up and didn't have my ID.
*I* would have left the first time...
By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack...
So...did they attack him for trying to
leave without a student ID
[SIZE="3"]???[/SIZE]So...did they attack him for trying to leave without a student ID [SIZE="3"]???[/SIZE]
Nah. Sometimes you just feel like tasering people coz they're being assholes.
if the public reaction is one of horror and not he-deserved-it finger wagging, then we are truly not in a 1984ish fascist situation.
I'm certainly seeing a bunch of that here, and on other sites that covered this story.
Ohh, maybe thats why I dont have a taser!!
I would be randomly tasering people all the time...."dont look at me like that"...ZZZZZZZZ..."dont not look at me like that.....ZZZZZZZZZ
Spexxie? oh yeah, I'd taser him - just for fun.
uh, what exactly was someone in the crowd supposed to do? you have one asshole looking for trouble. he was approached by two undertrained wanna be cops who were willing to oblige. they didn't take a swing at him. they didn't kick him. they confronted him. he became stupid. they tazed him too quickly, and he continued to create a scene. they didn't make it any better, but they are the on scene authority. you don't mess with them unless they are doing something heinously illegal. record them, file complaints, but don't interfere.
that being said. the cops fucked up. if they felt the need to to taze him, then so be it, but they should have immediately cuffed him and physically removed him. they only made things worse.
and the tazer is a piece of shit. they are made down here, and half the time they don't work. if one of the cables isn't in properly you've got nothing.
he deserved it finger-wagging I'm certainly seeing a bunch of that here, and on other sites that covered this story.
Since I wrote that, additional facts have pointed to the guy's role in it. I have posted those facts to the thread.
Here's a link to the
Daily Bruin, the UCLA newspaper, with some interviews and eyewitness accounts. :cool:
The police claim they were using the weapon in cattle prod mode rather than take 'em down mode.
Since I wrote that, additional facts have pointed to the guy's role in it. I have posted those facts to the thread.
None that justify the "he deserved it finger-waving." And even if you think they do, the waving began beforehand.
...if the public reaction is one of horror and not he-deserved-it finger wagging, then we are truly not in a 1984ish fascist situation.
That
has been the reaction. I haven't tallied up the posts in this thread, but there's been
alot of that.
Asshole gets shocked by third-rate rent-a-cop, so what. If this was state police or national guard, then I'm horrified.
Would it still "feel damn good watching it" ???
Substitute that guy, and it would probably still be pleasurable. There are so many asshats like that on campus that I could simultaniously protest the action and feel warm inside.
I'm going to assume you're being facetious about enjoying that video, and just leave it at that. Because I just watched it.
Any cops worth a lick of salt could have taken him down and cuffed him without use of a tazer. I've seen cops take down big guys fully flipping out without problem before.
For a lot of departments Tasers are used before things get to the laying on of hands slamming a jackass to the ground stage.
I did see the sequelae of a nightstick beatdown once. There was no attempt to describe it as a "fall down the stairs" (which is amusing for people who know there are no stairs to the cells).
Trying to get the pistol out of an officer's holster is considered impolite in these parts.
I do see more people post-Taser than post-pepper spray these days, though. The Taser has the advantage of being more likely to work.
And the disadvantage of possibly aggravating heart conditions.
And the disadvantage of possibly aggravating heart conditions.
Whereas being bodily thrown to the ground and possibly punched until subdued is so much better for the rest of your organs.
Any cops worth a lick of salt could have taken him down and cuffed him without use of a tazer. I've seen cops take down big guys fully flipping out without problem before.
Are you saying the situation and following PR frenzy would be better if they had
brawled with the kid? A tazer means an exact, measurable amount of force is applied with each taze, and the shots (unlike punches) can be counted if the situation comes into question later. Imagine if Rodney King had been tazed, the incident would have been over very quickly, with no lasting damage to his body.
And the disadvantage of possibly aggravating heart conditions.
Especially if it's one of those bleeding hearts already, eh? ;)
Well yeah, cause wanting students to be able to get on with their students without being hassled/tasered by cops is the first sign of a bleeding heart :P
Asshole gets shocked by third-rate rent-a-cop, so what. If this was state police or national guard, then I'm horrified.
As I understand it, the initial confrontation was with campus volunteers of some sort who came back with real police officers. But since he was heading out when they returned, then fell down refusing to move when they grabbed him, all they had to do was drag him out the door.
They certainly had run all kinds of extreme scenarios through their mind on the way. They didn't really know what they were dealing with, beforehand and were prepared to get the upper hand quickly. I wonder how much of their training is what to do and how much is when to stop?:confused:
Imagine if Rodney King had been tazed
RK WAS tazed 3-4 times but kept on comeing ,
I would have hit him with the tazer 1-2 times then droped him with my pistol ,
I guess thats why I am not a cop .
I have NOT seen this video , but I would have told him to leave , then forced him to leave , if he resisted , well i would have tazed him , and if you can set one of these for cattle prod mode I would have led him out dancing on the end of the wires , some of the crowd tryes to interveen or interfeer , well that is what back up is for !!!
And the disadvantage of possibly aggravating heart conditions.
Seems like the determining factor in deaths subsequent to Taser deployment may be more about drug use, especially crack cocaine, than preexisting heart conditions. Every cop carrying a Taser has had it used on him/her. There are not a ton of reports about cops dropping dead after training, and cops are not the healthiest people on the planet (high stress level, poor diet, sit in a car and drive around through most of a shift), so it's not the Taser alone that's the problem.
If you watch the video all the way to the end, the cop startes telling people to back off and quit complaining about what he's done, or else he will use the tazer on them, too. Is this also an "acceptable" use of a tazer? It's the equivalent of a parent yelling "I'll give you something to cry about!"
Flint have YOU ever been in the situation where it is YOUR job to controll an un ruley mob ??? I have had some riot training ( USMC ) , you get and keep the upper hand < True they could ALL bum rush you and overpower you , but you have to get and keep the Upperhand , that is why they make those BIGASSS cans of pepperspray !!!
[threadjack] Anyone know if it is legal for me to buy pepperspray and use it on dogs that are off their leash? How about the dog owners? [/threadjack]
If the dogs or the owners are threatening you , you have the right to defend your self . Pepper spray , ball bat , shot gun , etc,,,
Disclaimer , this CAN and DOES varry state to state !!!
Here dogs running loose are SHOT !
Here dogs running loose are SHOT !
What if they've managed to escape their yard and the owners aren't aware they're out, or the owners know they're out and are busy searching for them?
Then if poochie decides to snap at someones kid before the owner finds it, it's hello doggy heaven:ghost:
If they are attacking people or livestock, they need to get dead pretty quickly.
We also have a pretty serious rabies problem here in the U.S.
We also have a pretty serious rabies problem here in the U.S.
really? you mean that's not something they just made up as an excuse to shoot the star of a disney movie?
My issue is pet dogs, taken off their leashes on the trails at French Creek. The kids and I have had everything from poodles, to pit bulls and great danes running up on us out in the woods there. I don't know if they want to bite me or sniff my crotch, but I'm not cool with any of it.
I don't want to hurt the dogs, its the asshole owners fault... but it really pisses me off.
i think you'd be perfectly justified in spraying the dog, BUT expect problems. if you don't incapacitate the dog you now have a very pissed off animal. and i'm sure there are jackasses that would sue because poor Fifi wasn't treated with the proper respect that all living creatures *blahblahblah*
Flint have YOU ever been in the situation where it is YOUR job to controll an un ruley mob ???
If that was my job, I would do it properly. If I didn't like having that job, or was not capable of doing it properly, I would seek a different job.
If they are attacking people or livestock, they need to get dead pretty quickly.
We also have a pretty serious rabies problem here in the U.S.
That I have little issue with. It was just the idea that dogs merely running about unattended get shot that I had a problem with. I am a dog-lover but even I can see that protection of human life and well being must take precedence over that of a dog. That said, if anybody hurt my dog, I'd hunt them down and tear them limb from limb :P
If that was my job, I would do it properly. If I didn't like having that job, or was not capable of doing it properly, I would seek a different job.
Just out of curiosity, what do you do, job-wise?
the title of Systems Administrator covers a lot...
Have you ever had to restrain some nutcase who is spitting in your face and scratching at your neck? Have you ever had to tie someone down in five point leathers while they defecate all over the bed, room and you? Have you ever been taken hostage at work? Just wondering.
My point is this--until you've done the actual job day in and day out--don't assume you know how to do my job 'properly'
There are now dog parks specifically for letting your dog off lead and to romp around with other dogs.
...Have you ever had to restrain some nutcase who is spitting in your face and scratching at your neck? Have you ever had to tie someone down in five point leathers while they defecate all over the bed, room and you? Have you ever been taken hostage at work? Just wondering.
...
Hey! Leave sexual preference out of this!
[threadjack] Anyone know if it is legal for me to buy pepperspray and use it on dogs that are off their leash? How about the dog owners? [/threadjack]
Ask your mail carrier. S/he should know the local laws. :D
...Here dogs running loose are SHOT !
And eaten!
So...did they attack him for trying to leave without a student ID [SIZE="3"]???[/SIZE]
He *didn't* leave the first time.
...Spexxie? oh yeah, I'd taser him - just for fun.
Then what would you do to me - just for fun?
He *didn't* leave the first time.
And he didn't get attacked the first time. He got attacked
on his way out.
Just out of curiosity, what do you do, job-wise?
the title of Systems Administrator covers a lot...
Have you ever had to restrain some nutcase who is spitting in your face and scratching at your neck? Have you ever had to tie someone down in five point leathers while they defecate all over the bed, room and you? Have you ever been taken hostage at work? Just wondering.
My point is this--until you've done the actual job day in and day out--don't assume you know how to do my job 'properly'
I'm a computer guy. And no, I have never
chosen to work a job that requires me to do any of the things you mentioned. If I had
chosen that line of work, and discovered that I didn't have the disposition to carry out my duties
without completely "losing it" and getting suspended, then I would seek a different line of work. Nobody is
forcing people to work jobs they aren't suited for. Personal responsibility.
Have you ever had to restrain some nutcase who is spitting in your face and scratching at your neck? Have you ever had to tie someone down in five point leathers while they defecate all over the bed, room and you? Have you ever been taken hostage at work? Just wondering.
Yes.
And he didn't get attacked the first time. He got attacked on his way out.
actually i think he was "confronted" on his way out, not "attacked". he got tased after throwing himself to the ground and attempting to make a scene.
[threadjack] Anyone know if it is legal for me to buy pepperspray and use it on dogs that are off their leash? How about the dog owners? [/threadjack]
I think we pretty clearly determined that brake cleaner was the aerosol of choice in these matters. (I think one of Ashke's friends with the stalking/kidapping father in law thread)
Also pretty sure Jim could hook you up with all kinds of brake cleaner too. When you do spray em, give a shot for me and say: "That's from foot3 for not picking up after your dog."
I'll owe ya one.
I'm a computer guy. And no, I have never chosen to work a job that requires me to do any of the things you mentioned. If I had chosen that line of work, and discovered that I didn't have the disposition to carry out my duties without completely "losing it" and getting suspended, then I would seek a different line of work. Nobody is forcing people to work jobs they aren't suited for. Personal responsibility.
Oh, My. You're brave.
I'm all a-flutter.
Have you ever had to...
You brought it up, I answered your question. Did you have a point?
If they are attacking people or livestock, they need to get dead pretty quickly.
We also have a pretty serious rabies problem here in the U.S.
And I have proof...;)
For some reason, I remember a small line from a book, that I think was in Serpico by Peter Maas.
One of the characters is discussing a police exam and why a particularly stupid officer didn't pass ...
Q: What is rabies and what would you do for it?
A: Rabies is Jewish Priests and I'd do pretty much anything for them because they're usually good people.
Or something like that.
I think we pretty clearly determined that brake cleaner was the aerosol of choice in these matters. (I think one of Ashke's friends with the stalking/kidapping father in law thread)
Actually it was Luisa and her biological father who was stalking her (as relatives in the Philippines are guaranteed to do if the word gets around that somebody in the family has some money). Now she has several cans of brake cleaner stationed around the house, plus she has her aunt carrying Mace while she mans the stun gun I gave her for Christmas last year. The guy disappeared again, we hope permanently because his story was that his in-laws had thrown him out of the house and were hunting for him. Word of their arsenal seems to have spread, and the only confrontation has been when Lu had to arc the stunner at a mentally-disturbed intruder who was trying to climb over their fence.
Cellar advice has served us well. When another relative tried to put a curse on Lu, she told us about it here and used the advice to her advantage. She has convinced that woman that she successfully turned the curse back on her and caused her to lose her house and all her possessions in the court case. There is nothing in the world which somebody in The Cellar will not be able to tell you how to handle ;)
How is Luisa doing, Tonchi? Get her diploma and papers squared away?:question:
As I am writing this, Luisa is taking her national board certification exams. After that she will be an "official" caregiver and can claim to be a professional on her next visa application. That is the good news.
The bad news is that the Philippines, which supplies all these bedpan carriers to the rest of the world, has no jobs for caregivers. So you take the course, get your certificate, and then stay unemployed just like the other 80% of the country unless you want to sign into slavery in the Middle East. To be able to claim that you have job experience, YOU PAY a hospital to work there and then they certify that you have a "job" when the inquiries are made. This is most of the reason why there is no job waiting for you after your graduation from the nursing programs: The hospitals can make money from you instead of having to pay to you :mad:
Well that just SUCKS !!!!