Women please vote
I've decided to post this thread because I think some people here don't realize that the issue of rape is serious and that many many women (and some men) are affected by it.
I'm asking the women who view this thread to vote honestly so that the men can realize that this is no joking matter.
Germaine Greer ( an Aussie feminist who now looks after ducks somewhere in England) says that women should not feel raped by rape . After all , what is rape ? Only a stiff ( and often not THAT stiff because of the booze) member in your vagina . Is your vagina YOU ? Yer bloody mind is stronger than that .
As a girl , Germaine Greer was raped in a car after a party by a person she knew . This is her way of being stronger than rape .
It may help some people who do not dare to say they have been raped .
Women deal with it , and get over it . THE RAPISTS GO TO PRISON .
Everything can be serious and everything can be a joking matter. Often at the same time.
really? are you really saying that you think that i feel that rape is not a serious matter?
I'm not saying you think anything lumber. What I am trying to demonstrate with this thread is that there are many more women who are affected than you might think. Women you know through this forum even.
Women who might be just as affected by careless comments as I am.
No one would EVER be able to rape me .
Nothing should be off-limits when it comes to a joke.
But if in the terms of the law they did , they should go to prison for twenty years .
well, i know that there are. my prom date was raped. onyxcougar was raped horribly with a KNIFE! would it help you to tell us more about what happened to you? or would it be better to carry on with your life and not let it rule you? you are not a rape victim. unless you choose to be.
A huge percentage of rapes never even get reported let alone the perpetrators of the crime going to prison. That's a fact.
Have you been raped , Aliantha ?
Germaine Greer ( an Aussie feminist who now looks after ducks somewhere in England) says that women should not feel raped by rape . After all , what is rape ? Only a stiff ( and often not THAT stiff because of the booze) member in your vagina . Is your vagina YOU ? Yer bloody mind is stronger than that .
I would never quote that dopey bitch Greer if I wanted to be taken seriously.
LJ - I agree with you, to a certain extent. You arent a victim unless you choose to be, but I believe that not everyone has the right kind of *makeup* to get past something like that.
That said, I dont know which *makeup* is the better one, because I personally believe to get past something like that....you lose something in doing so.
I have to say, "get past" really sounds trivial.
I moved-on & came to terms with being abducted and escaping as a child... getting past it? I don't know.
Discussing it in detail is still something I will not do.
I agree rkz. It (emotional/physical trauma) is not something that goes away just because you rationalize it, and it also becomes a part of who you are to some degree.
We are talking about women being raped , rkzenrage . Stop trying to make everything fit in with what you see as pain . Stop being so selfish . Sick people are far too selfish in general .
I know I seem hard . I am not .
Aliantha , have you been raped ?
Has anyone you love been raped , Aliantha ?
Yes and yes Buddug. Many years ago. It changed the course of my life, in some ways for the better if that makes any sense. In other ways it changed things for me for the worse. It's a matter of perspective and some days the positives are more prominent others it's the opposite.
That's not the point of this thread though. This is not a therapy session for me, and I think anyone who wants to has a right to comment including the men. I think that if in some way they have had experiences which help them understand then that's for the good although I feel very sorry that the world has to be this way sometimes.
I have to say, "get past" really sounds trivial.
I moved-on & came to terms with being abducted and escaping as a child... getting past it? I don't know.
Discussing it in detail is still something I will not do.
Yeah, well, shoot me I guess for not wording it correctly...many apologies
Well , you say 'yes' and 'yes' Aliantha . Perhaps in a way you wanted to answer the question no one else asked . I think you are brave and lovely .
I think most of the others that viewed this thread already knew the answer Buddug. I don't think it was brave to be honest.
Why look for comfort amongst all these selfish Americans ?
They are all obsessed with themselves .
I'm not looking for comfort. If I want that, I get it from my family and friends. I also don't think all Americans are selfish, nor do I think any other group of people can all be classed as selfish - cept maybe the French but even they have a few saving graces as individuals.
Don't spend your fine feelings on people who only care about themselves , that is all I am saying , Aliantha .
And tomorrow when you wake up thinking 'oh no , I gave up a part of my soul ' when I typed that , and was I drunk ? And oh I am so sad for it is true after all .
Don't be afraid . The ordinary people will have forgotten , just another message , just another conversation , the mill turns .
Well , I will be strong and true , and I will remember what you said . What you said is a strong little bird that you allowed me to hold in my hand for a moment .
Well, for one thing, I'm not drunk today. lol And there's nothing little about me...or birdlike.
Anyway, thanks for your kinds words. I hope I don't regret thanking you tomorrow.
They are all obsessed with themselves .
Good God speak for yourself.. you've been throwing around your holier than thou pompous crap all over the Cellar.
Stop being so selfish . Sick people are far too selfish in general.
What does it take to make her go away again?
What does it take to make her go away again?
I don't know, I'm about ready to change my stance on firearms.
Aliantha
Much as I appreciate your motive in posting this question, and much as I respect you as an individual, I don't know if you can achieve your stated goal.
I've decided to post this thread because I think some people here don't realize that the issue of rape is serious and that many many women (and some men) are affected by it.
I'm asking the women who view this thread to vote honestly so that the men can realize that this is no joking matter.
I had a friend who technically was date-raped (technically because she never accepted it was rape). It has never happened to me or anyone else close to me. Even if it had, I'd like to think I wouldn't flinch at the word Rape, or see it as a taboo subject for humour.
It would make me feel uncomfortable, and if I had been raped I agree the topic would probably revolt and distress me. But the bottom line is the criminal that raped me would be the person who had changed my life, not the person who made a joke/ comment all unaware of my personal circumstances.
There are very few people (IMO) who find rape as a topic amusing. Male or female. But telling people not to talk about it except in the most serious terms doesn't stop rape, and doesn't stop the victim from suffering.
You have my respect and sympathy (even if you don't want it) for what you have been through nonetheless.
Just my :2cents:
Back on subject...
I have never been raped. I only know one woman who said she was when she was younger, but I do not know her well enough to know details. I must assume that she was, as my impression of her is that she wouldn't lie about this type of thing.
As a kid, I do remember some older neighbor kids trying to get me to do some things with them, that would likely be considered sexual abuse (of me), but to be honest, I have blocked out the experience. I do get the creeps when I pass by their house, so I know *something* happened, though I know it wasn't rape--as in forced non-consensual intercourse.
I was lucky. However, I also lived at home during college and didn't party much because I had a steady boyfriend all through. I likely wasn't in nearly as many situations where rape is likely to occur.
From here
Now the government - as part of a package of reforms which have been incubating for more than two years - is proposing to define consent as "free agreement". The idea is to not to change the current law, but to clarify in statute for the first time what consent means. The aim is to make the law clearer, as an aid to preventing as well as prosecuting rape. The new law will spell out a range of circumstances, not exhaustive, in which it will be presumed there was no consent. One example is if the woman was asleep, unconscious, or too affected by alcohol or drugs to give free agreement.
Some men claim that the reforms will place an impossible burden on them to show that the woman agreed to sex if she had had a few drinks beforehand. Wrong. It will not, repeat not, change the burden of proof in rape cases, which will still be on the prosecution. It will not be for the man to show that the woman consented. If his defence is that she did consent, it will still be for the prosecution to satisfy the jury that she didn't. Nor will it create a new hazard for men who have sex with a woman intoxicated by drink or high on drugs. The rule that a woman cannot agree to sex if she is too drunk or drugged to give consent is already well established in law. It dates back to a case in 1845, and is really a statement of the obvious.
Rape is the denial of personal autonomy, removal of the right to say yes or no. A woman who is asleep, unconscious or in a state of extreme intoxication is in no position to say no. Men will still be able to invoke the defence of "honest belief" - that even if the woman wasn't consenting to sex, he honestly, however stupidly, thought she was.
Some men claim that the reforms...
Oops! I'm sure they meant to say something less biased and sensationalistic.
This was an article in a national newspaper. Perhaps the objections simply did come from men.
Perhaps the objections simply did come from men.
"Perhaps" is a fine excuse for slanted journalism..the statement isn't accurate. It's a sexist way to present the issue.
Here is a debate on the issue, which doesn't consist exclusively of filthy, knuckle-dragging, rape-supporting
men.
I don't get where you think this turned from a reasonable discussion about rape into a "lets kill all the men because they're rapists and we hate them" thread.
But hey - if we're going to have an intelligent discussion it's great that you have this person in your corner (male or female)
shark1873 - re: Rape: How Drunk Is Too Drunk?
consent is consent ..wayy to easy for a woman too say she was too drunk and didnt know what she was doing etc ..then some innocent dude gets the fuckin jail
consent is consent ...
shark1873 - re: Rape: How Drunk Is Too Drunk?
is a guy too carry out a breathliser test now btw .. too see how drunk a girl is? HAHAHAHAHA! what a joke ..
as for real rapists ..cut there cocks off and keep em in jail forever lol
shark1873 - re: Rape: How Drunk Is Too Drunk?
when there are 2 red lights to not proceed even if consent is giving it will be maybe classed as rape if u proceed ....... is that wot it will read ..lmfao
I don't get where...
Some men claim that the reforms...
__________________
...you have this person in your corner...
What does that even mean? How is this person in my "corner"
???I referenced an article froma respected broadsheet that happened to refer to men rather than people. You claimed this made it biased and sensationalistic.
Without then having any idea of the journalist's source, you claimed that the statement wasn't accurate.
You then referred me to a debate on the issue, in which at least one of the posters (quoted by me above) is not presenting a viewpoint any different from that you objected to in the article. Albeit less articulately.
I stand by my criticism of the article, specifically in regards to the poor choice of words.
I have offered no guarantee on the contents of the debate, other than the fact that both genders are represented.
this is flint flinging poo. let it go , SG. he's just baiting you.
in fact, Flint your new user title: Occasionally Flings Poo
I stand by my criticism of the article, specifically in regards to the poor choice of words.
Comments like these are exactly why date rape cases are not reported to police.
this is what comes from giving women the vote.......
ah.. now you're talking.......
Comments like these are exactly why date rape cases are not reported to police.
That's more than a mere "comment"- that's a
sermon to over
500 people! Yay religion!
I'm wondering if anyone is surprised by the results of this poll? Personally I'm not because I've done a fair amount of research in the area as you probably would all have guessed by now.
It's incredibly astounding to me that when over half the women who have voted on this poll have either been raped or narrowly avoided it, some people can still find the time to make jokes.
That is my point. This is not an issue that affects a few people. It affects over 25% of the population. That's a fairly huge wack wouldn't you say?
this is what comes from giving women the vote.......
aw, cmon. that was some funny shit!
[SIZE="2"]"Perhaps this is why it is man alone who laughs: he alone suffers so deeply that he had to invent laughter." - Friedrich Nietzsche[/SIZE]
I would imagine the newspaper reporters only asked men for their reaction to the law, or at least lumped them into a section of male reaction. That's because most people think of women victims when rape is mentioned.
That's unfortunate, as rape is not exclusively a male on female crime. Many boys are raped and men in prison know the problem well.:(
I just wanted to thank the people who voted on this thread. I realize it takes courage to do what you did and it means just as much that you could say what you did even though it was anonymously.
I hope that even though some people will never understand what you've been though, they may at least have had pause to consider your anguish and in future, maybe things will be different for you and for me.
I would imagine the newspaper reporters only asked men for their reaction to the law, or at least lumped them into a section of male reaction.
My problem with this sentence:
Some men claim that the reforms will place an impossible burden on them to show that the woman agreed to sex if she had had a few drinks beforehand.
...is that it should have been written like this:
Some claim that the reforms will place an impossible burden
on men to show that the woman agreed to sex if she had had a few drinks beforehand.
Otherwise it implies that men, exclusively, object to this law - which is inaccurate and inflamatory.
I don't think a professional journalist could be this naive about semantics. If they are, it's just incompetence.
__________________
@Aliantha: Sorry, if I hijacked your thread. These were a couple of current news items I thought were worthy of discussion.Germaine Greer ( an Aussie feminist who now looks after ducks somewhere in England) says that women should not feel raped by rape . After all , what is rape ? Only a stiff ( and often not THAT stiff because of the booze) member in your vagina . Is your vagina YOU ? Yer bloody mind is stronger than that .
As a girl , Germaine Greer was raped in a car after a party by a person she knew . This is her way of being stronger than rape .
It may help some people who do not dare to say they have been raped .
Women deal with it , and get over it . THE RAPISTS GO TO PRISON .
I agree to a point. Date rape can be gotten over, but when there's violence involved it is way so much more than just a stiff one.
Otherwise it implies that men, exclusively, object to this law - which is inaccurate and inflamatory.
No, it just means that's the strongest negative reaction they could find and who it came from.
You don't think they got a negative reaction from women, do you? The law isn't to protect women from dogs, or men from women, it's clearly women from men. :rolleyes:
Some men claim that the reforms will place an impossible burden on them to show that the woman agreed to sex if she had had a few drinks beforehand.
Notice the only men who complained were those who frequent this kind of 'drinking till they can't say no' scenario. They must have guitly a conscious.
POLL
Have you been a victim of rape?
Yes - violent
Yes - date
No, but I was lucky to avoid it
No never
what does
NO, BUT I WAS LUCKY TO AVOID IT MEAN?? It means they were able to escape.
[size=1]or that they had that 'not so fresh' feeling, and the would be rapist changed his mind? [/size]
what does NO, BUT I WAS LUCKY TO AVOID IT MEAN??
I answered yes to that, and for me, it meant that I was attacked by some idiot right in front of the campus police building--I screamed my head off, and they came running out.
OMG LJ - youre killing me.
The feminist in me (its a little little bit) thinks I should be offended, but I cant keep from laughing.
You've done that a few times recently.
OMG LJ - youre killing me.
The feminist in me (its a little little bit) thinks I should be offended, but I cant keep from laughing.
You've done that a few times recently.
i like to make people laugh. it's my favorite thing.
When it comes right down to it.....we have a tendency to make the most awful aspects of our world a source of humour. Does that negate the awfulness of the subject? In some cases yes....in other cases no.
I don't think a person who makes a joke about rape plays their hand as someone who doesn't see the seriousness of the crime. That said, someone who does not see the serious nature of rape will most likely find it an easier source of humour than someone who does.
As for the proposal on changes to the law; I think its about time. We are convicting fewer not more rapists in the UK. The treatment of female victims by the courts has not changed significantly in thirty years, resulting in far more women pulling out of the case than following it through. If a woman has been so drunk that she cannot remember consenting(or has had her drink spiked with something to mimic that effect),there is an assumption of consent. The difficulty comes in when women make false claims against a man. This does happen; however, given the hoops that have to be jumped through; given that rape is one of the most difficult crimes to successfully prosecute and given the character assassination any female victim is subjected to, it is likely that such false-claims represent a very small percentage of rape charges brought against (mainly) men.
Currently, we have a justice system which is more concerned with protecting small numbers of men from false charge, than it is with prosecuting greater numbers of actual rape.
DanaC . Too much talk . Because you are an Asian , you feel you have to prove yourself .
Rape is wrong full stop .
Having obvious fun with 'essay-writing' is not really done when an important subject is involved , and presented publicly as such .
...and who are you talking about when you say 'we' , Dana ?
When it comes right down to it.....we have a tendency to make the most awful aspects of our world a source of humour. Does that negate the awfulness of the subject? In some cases yes....in other cases no.
"I laugh, because I dare not cry."
Humor, black humor especially, has always been a way to deal with the unbearable. The worse a tragedy is, the more important that people be able to claim it however they wish.
It means they were able to escape.
[size=1]or that they had that 'not so fresh' feeling, and the would be rapist changed his mind? [/size]
So is this not so fresh feeling in the 'date rape'category?
I don't know if date rape was a term in my generation. If I put myself in a compromising position then I was prepared to do it. I think people these days don't have common sense. Just don't proceed beyond this action or place to avoid rape. ??
What is date rape anyway? Is it what lj describes? Lucky to avoid date rape if .....? The would be rapist changed his mind?
Date rape is considered a category of its own because the victim knows the rapist, has consented to go out with him, has probably had a few drinks with him/ had dinner/ danced, may have agreed to a lift home from him, invited him in for coffee/ agreed to stay over in his spare room etc etc. Not all of the above will have taken place of course, but it is entirely separate to a situation where a woman is assaulted by a complete stranger for the sole purpose of violent enforced intercourse.
With date rape, the act of intercourse is rarely in question, it is the consent which is questioned. It is unlikely that in a "normal" (sorry, couldn't think of a better term) rape, the rapist will try to claim the woman consented.
Lucky to avoid....? Perhaps a flatmate came home unexpectedly, perhaps the woman managed to get out of a car where a man was pressuring her, perhaps the woman locked herself into a room to avoid a drunken man or even managed to clock him one on the nose in order to convince him what "No" meant.
I'd suggest a near-miss is a situation where a woman has felt under threat and that there is a serious potential that she will be physically overpowered, but for whatever reason no intercourse has actually taken place.
Sometimes the psychological effects of date rape can be worse than those of stranger rape due to the trust issues etc which arise after having had your faith/trust in someone so completely shattered.
My answer was no, but I was lucky to avoid it. As it seems that there is confusion as to what that might entail, I will describe the situation that I am referring to.
When I was 13, my sister was good friends with the Mexican gang that hung around our neighborhood. I should mention that I lived in a bad part of town at the time. She brought home her current boyfriend (he was in the gang).
I was home alone when she got there, as both my parents were at work. I am not sure what led up to it, but for some reason this guy thought that he should have sex with me. This was a pretty stupid thing to think since I was still a virgin and definitely wasn't going to sleep with my sister’s boyfriend! Anyway, he started to try to push himself on me, so I told him to get away from me and I went in my room.
He followed me through the house and tried to push the door open when I went in my room. Since I didn't trust him I locked the door. It was lucky I did because started pounding on the door, telling me to let him in. I obviously didn't comply, and after about 30 minutes he gave up. I didn't come out until my parents got home. My sister would have been raped by this guy if she hadn't been willing, I am sure. (She might have been anyway.) He did the same thing to one of my friends who had come over looking for me one day, and the only way she escaped was to lock herself in my room.
To put it mildly this guy was very violent, and I wouldn't doubt for a second that if I hadn't removed myself from the situation he would have raped me. I was most shocked by the fact that my sister didn't stop him! She would have been a witness to this! But… I think she was scared of him. Now that I think about it she might not have even been dating him, he might have just forced her into a relationship. I don’t know. But all of the gang members seemed to have issues with women and tended to be very violent.
Does that make it clear? And I didn’t put myself in this situation; I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I was always careful where I went and who with because I didn’t trust most people.
DanaC . Too much talk . Because you are an Asian , you feel you have to prove yourself .
Rape is wrong full stop .
Having obvious fun with 'essay-writing' is not really done when an important subject is involved , and presented publicly as such .
Okay.... a) I am not 'an Asian'. My Dad was born in India of English parents. Mum was a peroxide blonde from the Salford slums. If anything I am what's commonly known as a 'Manc' (short for Mancunian). I am pale skinned, with fair hair and grey/blue eyes.
b) If I was 'An Asian' I would find what you said incredibly insulting and racist, is that what you intended?
c) I am painfully and very personally aware of how serious rape is as an issue.
d) Why don't you go fuck yourself with something very sharp.....there is that better than an essay?
Don't Dana. It's honestly not worth it.
*Chuckles* I know...I know...I was spoiling for a fight I think. Not usually my style.
Buddog, out of interest, do you think a serious subject is best discussed with short snappy posts, or longer more in-depth treatment?
Simple remedy against date rape; kick him in the bullugs...
mmmm........ just checked out the poll-results...... though interesting, I found the tag-line underneath the results quite..... apposite...
"Crash programs fail because they are based on the theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month.
--Wernher von Braun"
When it comes right down to it.....we have a tendency to make the most awful aspects of our world a source of humour. Does that negate the awfulness of the subject? In some cases yes....in other cases no.
I don't think a person who makes a joke about rape plays their hand as someone who doesn't see the seriousness of the crime. That said, someone who does not see the serious nature of rape will most likely find it an easier source of humour than someone who does.
As for the proposal on changes to the law; I think its about time. We are convicting fewer not more rapists in the UK. The treatment of female victims by the courts has not changed significantly in thirty years, resulting in far more women pulling out of the case than following it through. If a woman has been so drunk that she cannot remember consenting(or has had her drink spiked with something to mimic that effect),there is an assumption of consent. The difficulty comes in when women make false claims against a man. This does happen; however, given the hoops that have to be jumped through; given that rape is one of the most difficult crimes to successfully prosecute and given the character assassination any female victim is subjected to, it is likely that such false-claims represent a very small percentage of rape charges brought against (mainly) men.
Currently, we have a justice system which is more concerned with protecting small numbers of men from false charge, than it is with prosecuting greater numbers of actual rape.
Take it from someone who studied this in college...
All humor is based in pain, in suffering. It is its nature. That is why you do it. It is its function, to help us deal with pain and discomfort.
I just wanted to thank the people who voted on this thread. I realize it takes courage to do what you did and it means just as much that you could say what you did even though it was anonymously.
I hope that even though some people will never understand what you've been though, they may at least have had pause to consider your anguish and in future, maybe things will be different for you and for me.
That is very kind of you. The rape of males is something that is still not discussed very often. It should be, but it is very difficult with the way we are looked upon.
Originally Posted by Buddug
Stop being so selfish . Sick people are far too selfish in general.
What does it take to make her go away again?
Am I selfish because I'm American or sick... I can't figure it out.:rolleyes:
Yeah, well, shoot me I guess for not wording it correctly...many apologies
I did not mean it that way
at all... I am very sorry you took it that way.
No inflection in text.
Eh RK - if I read your post today, I wouldnt of taken offense at all. I must of been pissie about something that day. :blush:
Good thing we only joke about less serious things like murder, torture, war, starvation, disease, etc.... :right:
The purpose of this thread was to illustrate the actual number of women - or men - whose lives are touched by rape. The reason behind wanting to illustrate this fact is that when people crack jokes about rape, they might be playing to a very limited audience, not to mention bringing back terrible memories which are sometimes best left in the past.
So, for those of you that feel the need, go ahead and joke about it all you like. It seems that perhaps this was a pointless excercise anyway. I'll just accept that I was wrong and instead of trying to create understanding next time, I'll just decide the person cracking the joke is an insensitive fuckwit and react accordingly.
Aliantha. I think you are being unfair. You started a post which led to a debate about the issues at hand. It's a sensitive subject, so naturally there is a risk of people getting a little more heated than a post about, say "Tofu".
I am guilty of getting a little heated myself on this one. But I am still glad you raised it. The fact that humans generally have the capacity to find humour in the most disturbing areas, is an interesting thing in itself. Maybe it speaks of our own relationship with the horror and pain which is an ever present feature of existance.
My point really is that we'd all do better to consider how our actions or words affect those around us.
As I said, I was wrong. It's not fair to expect people on an internet forum to care that much about their fellow posters.
btw...I was responding only to Bruces' last post. I don't think any of the horrors he mentioned are more or less terrible than rape, and the fact that he chose to suggest that perhaps they might be demonstrates that I have failed with this thread because quite clearly, there is no understanding.
Maybe there can't be for someone who's never been there, so maybe it's not his or anyone else's fault. Maybe that's just the way it is and maybe me and anyone else who does understand just needs to learn to suck it in, shut up, and move on.
I don't think it's an indication of caring, or lack thereof, when someone makes those jokes. I think Bruce's comment was suggesting that they are on the same level of seriousness. Point being we make jokes about the the aspects of life which are most disturbing.
I'm aware of that Dana. I'm also aware of the psychology behind why people do it, however, all those other aspects affect almost every one of us and so we have a base understanding and therefor can relate to the joke - maybe see the funny side of it. On the other hand, I think rape is something different and it will never be funny in any way to me.
Surely other people can see why that would be? Surely other victims understand why it's different to the other things mentioned as comparable?
Well, as a victim myself, I can honestly say that jokes like that don't bother me over much. It all depends on who is making the joke and the context of it. Intention is a major factor for me.
I'm aware of that Dana. I'm also aware of the psychology behind why people do it, however, all those other aspects affect almost every one of us and so we have a base understanding and therefor can relate to the joke - maybe see the funny side of it. On the other hand, I think rape is something different and it will never be funny in any way to me.
Surely other people can see why that would be? Surely other victims understand why it's different to the other things mentioned as comparable?
No! No it isn't different. You only think it's different because it happened to you.
If I go out with a friend and the end of the night he beats me senseless, that's not as serious, not as traumatic, not as damaging, as you being raped?
What about people who were kidnapped?
How about POWs?
What about people who suffer discrimination/racism, every damn day of their life?
A lot of people suffer heinous crimes that are hard for others to contemplate how they survived no less came to terms with it.
Most likely, any joke or even mention, of anything serious will trigger bad memories for someone.
That's why their can't be any subject that's taboo for humor.....or there would be no humor.
I'm sorry you've had a traumatic experience, but I'm ever more sorry you haven't been able to deal with it. I'm convinced you haven't by your suggestion that anyone joking about rape is an insensitive ass. :(
Like I said bruce, I've tried to create understanding. I've failed. It's time to move on. That's it.
Sure, but I sincerely hope you can beat this...I really do.:(
There's nothing to beat. That's it. The end.