Hermaphrodites

I'm lucky to have a pretty funny and intelligent father. He contributes a "Fascinating Factoid" to my blog about once a month. He's retired and has muscular neuropathy, so it gives him something to do. Recently, "TheFaz" and I have been discussing the absurdity of creationism and those who insist marriage MUST be between a man and a women. To this argument we always said "But what about hermaphrodites? Who are they supposed to marry?" I doubt many Fundies even think about that, but if they did, I would forward my father's most recent "Factoid" below. I thought some of you Cellarites would enjoy it:

[COLOR="Navy"]Dr. Kinbote’s Fascinating Factoids !

#13-Hermaphrodites

Note: Not for the faint hearted or delicate!

Hermaphroditism, the ability of an organism to have both fully functioning male & female reproductive organs, occurs in about 15% of animal species. There are three kinds:

(1)...simultaneous

(2)...age sequential

(3) opportunistic

The first form seems to be confined to invertabrates, such as snails & flatworms. The other forms seem to occur in fishes-Type 2 is seen in Clownfish, type 3 in Wrasse (the death of a male “harem” leader prompts one of the normally female fish to develop into a male)

Behavior in type 1 is truly bizarre:

Certain worms use their penises (they have two) in duels. Each tries to spray the other with as much sperm as possible. They have a body opening, but this does not lead to the ovaries. Instead, the ejaculate is immersed in a tissue -destroying fluid. Once the sperm penetrate (this can be anywhere) , they find their way to the eggs (exactly how they accomplish this is not known). Moreover, in some species, internal plumbing diverts a considerable part of the sperm to the digestive tract, Presumably for nutritive use.

How’s that for multi-tasking!

Another specie of worm uses its penis (ouch!) to puncture the skin of its “partner”. The injected sperm find their way (somehow) to the eggs. Some slugs will bite off the penis of the other. (The bananna

slug, mascot of the U.C. Santa Cruz atheletic teams does this.

There are at least 5 species of snails that shoot darts (a very sharp spike, made of a calcium compound, about 9 millimeters long ) into their “mate”. This spike is covered with a gel that enhances fertilization. Another species of snail uses this spike as a dagger, often slashing its “mate” over a thousand times in one encounter.

So far, there is no known specie of simultaneous hermaphrodite that mates with itself . The behavior seems to imply a strong urge to play the male role. Is male chauvinism then a natural thing, & not a cultural one? Who knows!

One thing is certain-all this should really give pause to the “intelligent design”crowd.[/COLOR]

Damn slugs can party!

Sounds like the work of Satan to me.

Pangloss62 wrote:

those who insist marriage MUST be between a man and a women.

I think most men would be ok with marriage being defined as 'between a man and... women' ;)

you cutie, you :)

Elspode wrote:

Sounds like the work of Satan to me.

My mother, an avid gardener, thinks slugs are the work of Satan irrespective of their sexuality. She's always up for learning about new ways to kill them. (A pie plate of beer is her favorite so far.)

ANY two consenting adults who are in love.

why stop at two? (I'm actually serious, no sarcasm)

I used to work with a hermaphrodite. He was a dick and a pussy. :cool:

9th Engineer wrote:

why stop at two? (I'm actually serious, no sarcasm)

& I agree with you.

ok, I'll mark you as clean for the double standards report

[devil's advocate] I believe the Right's next cliche response is something like, "Well what about people and animals? Or people and children?" [/devil's advocate]

I believe the Right's next cliche response is something like, "Well what about people and animals? Or people and children?"

I've heard them say that already. Rick Santorum for one:

[COLOR="Navy"]"In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That's not to pick on homosexuality. It's not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be."[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Navy"]AP: OK, without being too gory or graphic, so if somebody is homosexual, you would argue that they should not have sex?

SANTORUM: We have laws in states, like the one at the Supreme Court right now, that has sodomy laws and they were there for a purpose. Because, again, I would argue, they undermine the basic tenets of our society and the family. And if the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything. [/COLOR]

Brianna wrote:

I think most men would be ok with marriage being defined as 'between a man and... women' ;)

you cutie, you :)

A Mormon onced challenged Mark Twain to show him in the Bible where it says that bigamy was not allowed. MT turned to the passage that says, "No man shall serve two masters".

And if the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything.

You can't outlaw homosexual sex using this argument without making a threesome illegal. You can outlaw gay marriage with this argument (not necessarily justified, though) since polygamy is illegal, but not the sex itself.

Last time I check, adultery wasn't illegal? And I don't think incest is illegal, unless it's with a minor... Then it's abuse, and definitely not right.

I read a fascinaing article about a real human hermaphrodite (intersex).

http://www.amhersttimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2860&Itemid=27

In it she relates this about her mom's decision to "repair" her abnormality:

[COLOR="Navy"]Chase says that her own mother’s discomfort with and ignorance about sexuality contributed to the decision to have Chase’s clitoris amputated. When Chase flew from Japan to Florida to discuss her childhood with her mother, she also quizzed her mother about sex. “No, I don’t know what human genitals look like, exactly,” Chase’s mother told her. “I have never looked at myself, and I never looked closely at my children. The doctor said your clitoris had to go. Mine never meant anything to me, so I didn’t think it was wrong to remove yours.” [/COLOR]

I hate to say it, but that sounds like MY mom!:worried: How I got out of that house without being completely warped I'll never know.:neutral:

I've heard alot of proponents of gay marriage say that legalization in no way legalizes polygamy, but that just doesn't make any sense. Isn't the bedrock of the argument that we do not have the right to judge the sexual preferences of others? That human sexuality has always had many different forms and is fluid in and of itself? Without joking, how many here think that if we legalize gay marriage we should extend the same rights to polygamists? I'm talking mainstream here, not these little wacko camps

No, I don't think it that's the bedrock of the argument. Gay marriage supporters argue that marriage is a spiritual and legal commitment between two people who love each other.

Making polygamy legal would get really complicated. It could not be just one man or woman marrying two or more men and women. The spouses would all have to consent to be married to each other, and each spouse would have the right to bring other spouses into the fold. If someone wanted out, they would have to divorce everybody. Everyone would have rights to claim each others' property, alimony, palimony, and custody of each others' children.

...And thus, the line marriage was born.

Robert A. Heinlein wrote:

Monogamy is merely a social pattern useful to certain structures of society – but it is strictly a pragmatic matter, unconnected with sin … and a myriad other patterns are possible and some of them can be, under appropriate circumstances, both more efficient and more happy-making.