Gas prices
I saw gas for $2.59/gal on the way to work today, in New Jersey, where they pump it for you. Seems great, but wasn't it less than a year and a half ago that gas about $1.75/gal?
It's 2.39/gal here. One week ago it was 2.59/gal and I nearly broke my neck filling up at that price. Naturally, after I did that, it went down .20 cents. It has been 3.15/gal.
Why is gas less expensive in Ohio than in Pennsylvania ans New Jersey? Is it closer to the source, closer to processing? No. I suppose it's more expensive because that's what the market will bear.
****Conspiracy theory alert!!!!*******
Red states are being rewarded by big oil for voting in the administration that has given them subsidies when they are making historic profits.
Why is gas less expensive in Ohio than in Pennsylvania ans New Jersey?
When you say Penna do you mean the Phila area? I think probably everything is more $$$ on the Eastern seaboard...after all, who wants to be in landlocked, humid, gloomy Ohio? At least you can get to the shore!
Katkeeper reports gas is $.20 cheaper in Harrisburg area than in Philadelphia area.
Most other basic things like groceries are cheaper in Hbg.
So why is that? Is it just lower overhead from cheaper real estate? I figure transportation has to play a huge role. Is Pittsburgh more of a hub than Philly?
Don't know exactly! For sure the RE market is FAR cheaper in Harrisburg, and the labor.
Philly is a big port city and has several refineries. But you know what, I bet pipelines serve gas depots all the way to Harrisburg.
Harrisburg is a huge trucking hub because it's halfway between a lot of places.
Katkeeper reports gas is $.20 cheaper in Harrisburg area than in Philadelphia area.
Same is true in Allentown--although I can't claim the differential is quite $.20/gal. When I can, I buy my gas near work rather than near home.
$2.53 here in KC area, down from $2.89 a week ago. I almost choke on my tongue when I tell the wife during the morning drive that gas is more affordable than it was just a week ago.
Did *anyone* ever think they'd live to see the day that gas would be "only" $2.53 a gallon, and they'd be grateful?
Local Gas Prices:
Unleaded : €1,49/litre = $ 7,05/US Gallon
Diesel : € 1,10/litre = $ 5,45/US Gallon
PS apx 30% of the passenger cars here have diesel engine, their market share is rising.
PPS Net profit Shell first 6 months 2006 reached a record high of $14.800.000.000 (+39%) = $ 83 Mio/day = $ 3,45 Mio/hour = $ 57.500/sec. FcukinG GROSS
Strange...diesel is higher per gallon than unleaded here in the States right now. Didn't use to be that way years ago.
Did *anyone* ever think they'd live to see the day that gas would be "only" $2.53 a gallon, and they'd be grateful?
Well, since I have a decent grasp of inflation, I personally expect to still be alive to see the day that gas is only $10.00/gallon, and likely consider it a fair price at the time.
When adjusted for inflation, gas is still cheaper today than it was in the early 1980s.Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't diesel considered at one time the waste byproduct more or less when gas was refined or is my thinking all wrong? I can remember as a kid diesel being WAY cheaper than gas. I guess all the F350 Super Duty owners are kicking themselves right about now as the majority I see aren't used as a work truck, but more of a status symbol.
I paid $2.95 for self serve regular early this week. I'm pretty sure my tank before that was around $3.40 from the same gas station.
I paid $2.95 for self serve regular early this week. I'm pretty sure my tank before that was around $3.40 from the same gas station.
Remember when self serve was the exception, not the norm, and that woman wrote a book entitled "Real Women Don't Pump Gas"? Are there any more full serves anymore, and what is the price differential?
There are still full serve stations. This is the law in New Jersey ... but gas is still cheaper than on my side of the bridge because the state taxes on the fuel aren't as high. I am not close enough to the border, nor am I willing to be disarmed to take 'advantage' of this, especially since what I might save per gallon I would lose in highway tolls and expended fuel for the round trip.
Self-Serve started at about the time I was learning to drive, so I learned that too. It's actually kind of strange to buy gas at a place where they do the work for you, and still check your oil and swab the dead bugs off your windshield (which they would do at the Shell Station up the street from me if I wanted them too). I don't know how much the surcharge for having them do the work is, though. If I remember to do so I'll walk around and check the full serve pump price, as it's not posted on the sign.
When I used to travel upstate there was a full serve station, or rather a station where they pumped the gas for you. No check the oil or wash the windshield unless you asked for it, though.
Well, since I have a decent grasp of inflation, I personally expect to still be alive to see the day that gas is only $10.00/gallon, and likely consider it a fair price at the time. When adjusted for inflation, gas is still cheaper today than it was in the early 1980s.
I'm no economist, but I just don't remember being outraged and near-bankrupted by fuel prices back then. I wonder if I'm just making that much less money now than I was then...when adjusted for inflation?
In the 80's, filling up my car didn't make me sick to my stomach like it does now. I have to put about $250.00 per month into my two functional cars on average for my normal use requirements...and I *really* go very few places that aren't work except for band practice once a week.
That $250.00 represents about 9% of our take-home pay, and that's just for gas. No other vehicle expenses.
Does anyone else pay that high of a percentage for fuel out of their take home wages?
Since I only buy gas on the card, It's pretty easy to keep track of what I'm spending each month ... I have a car that gets pretty crappy milage (i.e., under 18 mpg) and since the prices went up, am usually spending around $75-95/month on gas.
Last school year I was spending about 20 dollars a week getting to my day job waaay across town.
I know that gas is high but somehow it's been linked to the price of sugar and soda pop. I know you might think I am having a pheobe moment but really, Next time you go to buy a liter bottle at 1.69 plus deposit we'll have to assume it's shipped in from where? Hawaii?? It's been more painful to buy that stuff because unlike gasoline we don't really NEED it.
Remember when self serve was the exception, not the norm, and that woman wrote a book entitled "Real Women Don't Pump Gas"? Are there any more full serves anymore, and what is the price differential?
I was wondering the same. I don't want my oil checked but somethings would be nice to have the workers do.
I sure don't want to get my hands dirty before work if I have to use those little air pumps with the short little cord and about 2 minutes to get air into your tires before it shuts itself off. That is about as full service as it gets around here.
Hee, hee! Paid 2.32/gal yesterday! Tra-la!
Were gasoline prices high? Emotions said yes (in polls). Reality is completely different. One month this summer set a new record for gasoline consumption. Sales of GM's gas guzzlers reported this last quarter were at record high volume. Ford's F-150 sales, although down from last years record high levels, are still selling at numbers that are higher than most previous years.
Gasoline at $3+ per gallon was not expensive. SUV sales are still strong. With inflation, price of gasoline is same as gasoline prices in early and mid 1970s. That same history says gasoline must rise to somethng like $6 or $7 per gallon before consumers really consider gasoline expensive.
State gasoline tax is PA 45.1, NJ 32.9 and Ohio 40.4.
Don't be upset with Bush and Big Oil colluding to raise prices. After all, they're doing it for your own good. Their benefiting at historic levels, is just collateral damage. :right:
Southern California gas prices are finally easing below three a gallon, with most places selling regular unleaded in the 2.90 to 2.99 range.
Ah, now we can subsidise terror without the wallet pain.
Maybe if we were allowed to use our own supplies (wouldn't want to hurt a few caribou) and stopped tanking incentives for broadening ethinol production we wouldn't have to be funding terrorism. I'm sure I'm mentioned how that area of the world has no value except as an oil well, once that's no longer important they won't have the funds to maintain a TV network much less a terrorism network.
Why did the worlds largest supply of oil have be sitting under the asses of a bunch of psychotic nomads??? It's like a sick joke or something. Someone call global eminent domain on their asses and admit them to a nice psych ward, we'll tell the candy stripers to cover their arms to show we're meeting them partway.
Nurse Ratched could fix Bin Laden right fine.
Maybe if we were allowed to use our own supplies (wouldn't want to hurt a few caribou) and stopped tanking incentives for broadening ethinol production we wouldn't have to be funding terrorism.
Why did the worlds largest supply of oil have be sitting under the asses of a bunch of psychotic nomads??? It's like a sick joke or something. Someone call global eminent domain on their asses and admit them to a nice psych ward, we'll tell the candy stripers to cover their arms to show we're meeting them partway.
Two reasons:
-1)There isn't as much oil up there that's as cheaply accessible at the same quality as shipping it from the Mideast.
-2)Ethanol isn't all that great. It takes a tremendous amount of power to produce, even if it does burn cleaner in autos. I'm pretty sure (though I can't remember where you actually have a net loss of CO2 when making and burning ehtanol fuel.
Gas is more expensive in LA than in the suburbs becasue LA adds a city tax, and a county tax.
I thought this was interesting:
http://www.losangelesgasprices.com/tax_info.aspx
It's a list of state taxes on fuel
Just got gas in New jersey for 2.47.9/gallon
$2.45 9/10 here in the KC Metro.
Here's some perspective for you.
In the UK a couple of weeks ago unleaded hit an all time high of just over £1 / litre = £3.79 / Gall(US) = $6.82 / Gall (US)
This last week, thanks to the US driving season drawing to a close, the price dropped to £0.93 / litre (whoopee do)
Diesel is around 2 to 3% more due to higher environmental taxation.
The UK government has introduced heavier road tax for less fuel efficient cars and tax breaks for low emission vehicles. There is increasing pressure to lean on them even harder as pollution and road congestion just ain't funny anymore. Things are really going to start biting soon.
Oy! That's pretty damn pricey. I just filled up yesterday for US$2.35! Woooo! MSP is in the hizzle!
I for one find it highly improbable that Americans are driving that much less to be able to explain such a precipitous drop in prices in such a short time. $2.29/gal here in KC Metro today, or a drop of 66 cents in about two weeks.
The only way it could have dropped that much, that quickly, is if it was artificially high in the first place, IMHO. I think this is doubly supported by the even more amazing UK price drop cited here. Rogues. Scum. Thieves. Robber Barons.
I for one find it highly improbable that Americans are driving that much less to be able to explain such a precipitous drop in prices in such a short time. $2.29/gal here in KC Metro today, or a drop of 66 cents in about two weeks.
The only way it could have dropped that much, that quickly, is if it was artificially high in the first place, IMHO. I think this is doubly supported by the even more amazing UK price drop cited here. Rogues. Scum. Thieves. Robber Barons.
Theres data out there to tell us if it's true or not. We just need to hack into Jiffy Lube's computers and extract the mileage data.
I for one find it highly improbable that Americans are driving that much less to be able to explain such a precipitous drop in prices in such a short time. $2.29/gal here in KC Metro today, or a drop of 66 cents in about two weeks.
The only way it could have dropped that much, that quickly, is if it was artificially high in the first place, IMHO. I think this is doubly supported by the even more amazing UK price drop cited here. Rogues. Scum. Thieves. Robber Barons.
Can you say, there's an election in six weeks or so? ;)
I had a wild thought about this and could be way out there regarding the recent oil discovery in the Gulf of Mexico.
Who is to say that the recent gas prices falling don't have something to do with needing the cost of a barrel of oil to be the lowest in years so that Chevron pays NO monies to big government due to a contractual loophole?
We (USA) benefits anywhere from 30 cents to a dollar less a gallon so that big company benefits billions while crude oil is being pumped out of the Gulf?
It's head chowder, but a good recipe.
I for one find it highly improbable that Americans are driving that much less to be able to explain such a precipitous drop in prices in such a short time.
In a world where even Nigeria and Venezuela are on the verge of terminating oil exports, what would a small oil dealer (representative of something like 75% of America's oil industry) do? Less widely reported are small American oil dealers scrambling to find oil storage tanks capacity where ever storage could be found. They have long term contracts to protect. Hoarding - which you should be saying thank you for protecting your interests - has been widespread across the entire American oil industry. Even residential oil tanks were kept as topped as oil dealers could just to find more storage for oil.
Well, no hurricane struck the Gulf. Situation in Nigeria softened. Venezuela apparently will not stop shipping oil. Mexico's presidential election situation appears to have settled. Oil from Alaska is still flowing after quite a scare. Saudis have maintained capacity that no one was sure was possible. Kuwait has not been dragged into what looked like a mess this year. Oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea is now functioning. Libyan oil has come online this past year - is especially found in Italy. Russians are not using oil like they once were to manipulate Europe. Gulf pipelines are finally pumping enough oil and natural gas to meet consumption demands. Second half of summer was not as hot as the first half. Summer driving season ended. Fall is a time of least oil consumption. These are only some events I know of from well published sources. And so it goes. Suddenly small oil dealers no longer need maintain all this oil. Prices drop accordingly.
You knew of these so many events when oil barons were rigging the market? This summer was a scary time for the entire oil and natural gas industry.
Well, no hurricane struck the Gulf. Situation in Nigeria softened. Venezuela apparently will not stop shipping oil. Mexico's presidential election situation appears to have settled. Oil from Alaska is still flowing after quite a scare. Saudis have maintained capacity that no one was sure was possible. Kuwait has not been dragged into what looked like a mess this year. Oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea is now functioning. Libyan oil has come online this past year - is especially found in Italy. Russians are not using oil like they once were to manipulate Europe. Gulf pipelines are finally pumping enough oil and natural gas to meet consumption demands. Second half of summer was not as hot as the first half. Summer driving season ended. Fall is a time of least oil consumption. These are only some events I know of from well published sources. And so it goes. Suddenly small oil dealers no longer need maintain all this oil. Prices drop accordingly.
That is a dizzying array of market influences. The only thing dizzier than that array is the again *extremely unlikely* confluence of relief of all those possibilities occuring *at the same fucking time*. Examining these market influences, kindly tell me any one of them that was anything but speculation and/or bullshit now that the "danger" has come and gone?
The only thing that changed, apparently, was how much of our money was going into the pockets of people smart enough to produce some bullshit "market forces" that never eventuated.
That is a dizzying array of market influences. The only thing dizzier than that array is the again *extremely unlikely* confluence of relief of all those possibilities occuring *at the same fucking time*.
Event need not occur at the same time. Just the fact that so many possiblities exist is why something completely different then happened. That only some events were possible is why oil dealers were massive hoarding oil this summer. You don't care whether those events could happen. You saw only what did happen. Oil dealers were massively seeking oil storage depots, oil future contracts, etc because the market was so unstable; because they have long term contracts that they must meet. Those many threats were enough to only raise oil prices slightly. Did prices rise from $2 per gallon to over $4 per gallon? No. IOW the price rises were rather mild.
Don't forget history. When oil shipments from some sources were interrupted, then gasoline rose to $7 per gallon.
Now that dealers don't need reserves, prices have dropped from $3 per to $2.50 per gallon. Of course. Simple market economics.
Meanwhile, did you notice how market problems kept fruit and vegatable prices so high this summer? Why not? Again, market forces caused, for example, blueberries last year at $2 a box to sell for $2.50, $3 and at one point $4 per box. Clearly blueberry farmers are also greedy bastards? Welcome to the free market. Of course, you know why fruit and vegatable prices were so high? Those reasons have been widely reported by every responsible new service.
I don't have to buy blueberries twice a week to get back and forth to my job. Have I noticed increases in other commodities? Yes. I work in construction. Prices of some raw materials have gone up 40% in eighteen months.
Let's wait and see who gets elected and what new "market forces" will rear their ugly heads thereafter. Should be interesting.
I don't have to buy blueberries twice a week to get back and forth to my job. Have I noticed increases in other commodities? Yes. I work in construction. Prices of some raw materials have gone up 40% in eighteen months.
What else has seen a massive price increase? Wood? I thought that price was supposed to have decreased. Where are the big price increases in construction this summer - and how much? (I suspect busterb could cite reasons why roofing material prices are higher.)
Nurse Ratched could fix Bin Laden right fine.
I got the bed and the meds, just as soon as someone is able to confirm whereabouts within my county.
I paid $2.69/gal reg. unleaded yesterday. There are stations that are cheaper, but this is the one that's more convenient on the way to visit momWolf/work.
I did remember to check the full serve prices ... it was 20 cents more per gallon to have the kid pump the gas and smear your windshield (if you ask nicely).
What else has seen a massive price increase? Wood? I thought that price was supposed to have decreased. Where are the big price increases in construction this summer - and how much? (I suspect busterb could cite reasons why roofing material prices are higher.)
I am in insulation/fireplaces/gutters primarily. I don't know what lumber has done, but steel, insulation, sheet rock and roofing have spiraled upward at a record pace. In fact, metal prices in general have skyrocketed, including the price for scrap.
Let's wait and see who gets elected and what new "market forces" will rear their ugly heads thereafter. Should be interesting.
If the repubicans win, prices will go back up. If Democrats win, big oil might be concerned about reprocussions if they continue raping Americans. And if Democrats win, they had better fucking do something about the situation. maybe repeal the energy act of the Cheney administration.
I should imagine pretty much everything will continue to skyrocket (in price) until you find a way of manufacturing it without oil. It's a finite resource and in one hundred years we've managed to burn half of what took several million years to create.
Getting pissed over domestic petroleum prices is just the tip of the iceberg.
If the repubicans win, prices will go back up. If Democrats win, big oil might be concerned about reprocussions if they continue raping Americans. And if Democrats win, they had better fucking do something about the situation. maybe repeal the energy act of the Cheney administration.
"Big oil" doesn't care either way. People buy gas, they make money. No matter what.
If your tidy, left wing conspiracy is is true, could you please explain to me when the Middle East producers stopped being the ones to set the price per barrel?
"Big oil" doesn't care either way. People buy gas, they make money. No matter what.
If your tidy, left wing conspiracy is is true, could you please explain to me when the Middle East producers stopped being the ones to set the price per barrel?
They haven't, but the producers don't set the price at the pump and the two are not directly related. Most prices at the pump are set as a result of fluctuations in the oil futures market as well as the ability of the Big Oil companies to refine crude into it's constituent parts for us to use. So, since the futures market has been trending downwards, and the backlog at refineries is decreasing, we have lower at-the-pump prices.
It isn't a conspiracy, it's the Big Oil companies trying to make as much money as they can, which is the purpose of any company. Whether it's ethical or not is another matter.
I seem to recall that 30 years ago there was massive fuel price fluctuation and all the oil people got rich
and there was great gnashing of teeth and calling for special taxes on the bad rich people
and then 15 years ago there was no fluctuation and status quo and the oil people were all going bust
and nobody called for any special taxes on them because all of Texas was in recession
and now there is fluctuation and all the oil people are making money again.
I do not advise moving to Texas.
It's also interesting to note that a large portion of the "oil people" here in Texas is the state University system. Lower oil profits means less money for public higher education. The anti-corporation folks really squirm when you bring that up. :)
I seem to recall that 30 years ago there was massive fuel price fluctuation and all the oil people got rich
and there was great gnashing of teeth and calling for special taxes on the bad rich people
and then 15 years ago there was no fluctuation and status quo and the oil people were all going bust
and nobody called for any special taxes on them because all of Texas was in recession
and now there is fluctuation and all the oil people are making money again.
I do not advise moving to Texas.
I have a short memory, I guess. I don't recall a lot of struggling oil companies due to the cheap price of energy.
Does anyone here believe there is any such thing as an obscene amount of profits?
As a libertarian, Patrick, no I don't. Also as a libertarian, if I don't like their prices, I vote with my wallet for something else. Hell, I've got a bicycle. The Oxnard metro area is flat terrain.
Does anyone here believe there is any such thing as an obscene amount of profits?
In theory, yes. There can be.
I don't have a problem with luxury items having huge profit margins. But necessities shouldn't have obscene profit margins. If a monopoly exists that allows huge profits on necessities, then the government should break up that monopoly.
I don't recall a lot of struggling oil companies due to the cheap price of energy.
The way they avoided struggling too much was by laying people off. I remember several schoolmates' parents basically going broke for a couple of years or having to give up and switch careers because of it. None of them were executives, though.
"Big oil" doesn't care either way. People buy gas, they make money. No matter what.
They've made record profits lately. Something tells me it was largely due to the exhorbitant prices at the pumps.
If your tidy, left wing conspiracy is is true, could you please explain to me when the Middle East producers stopped being the ones to set the price per barrel?
Labor Day, the end of the vacation travel season.:mad:
Another reason for the huge profit numbers is the size of the companies. All the mergers have lessened the competition and with fewer companies come bigger market shares. :(
But that's good, right?
Didn't our government go to some rather extraordinary lengths to break up giant monopolies about twenty years ago? What the fuck has changed that it is now a good thing?
No, monopolization and deregulation have got on the fast track since '94, so it isn't just Bush, and it isn't just the Republicans.
$1.99.9/gallon this morning in Raytown, MO
$1.99.9/gallon this morning in Raytown, MO
I hate you. Its $2.68/gallon in Cortez, CO.
$2.68 is a bargain to European ears......
here in dear old Blighty, the price has just *fallen* to around 87p/litre...
(4.8 litres per gallon = £4.18 /gall = $7.9)
Not quite as bad as that I'm afraid JayMcGee.
You've quoted UK Gallons. The US Gallon is quite considerably smaller at just 3.8 litres.
Still a valid point, worth raising a second time.
Down to $1.93 this morning here - (Oklahoma)
The faster it goes down, the higher it'll bounce on the rebound. :eek:
That's my fear. Appears to have stabilized at $1.97 here.
The lowest in my city is 1.98...sounds like a good deal compared to the past year, but not compared to when i started driving. Holy crap.
> $67 to fill up the car last night. oof. And self serve regular, too. At the cheapest place in town. I think it was about $3.33/gal maybe more, I didn't want to stare.
Yesterday morning, I spent $34 to pretty much fill up my tank (12 gal and change at $2.899). By yesterday afternoon, many stations were creeping up to $3. I won't have to fill up again until Thursday, but I see a $37 or $38 fillup. The most I've ever spent was last summer--$39 and change.
Oh man, that reminds me.
I will have to start paying for gas again in less than two weeks!
:sniff: :sniff: :sniff:
$3.099 a couple weeks ago. I don't buy gas very often.
$2.73 in South Jersey, pumped by the attendant.
A lot of people around the country are complaining about the price of gas, but many of them are driving around in vehicles that get less than 20 miles per gallon. As someone else pointed out, sales of trucks and SUVs are still a significant part of all vehicle sales.
I'm curious how much gas the average person here uses. My wife and I, between us, use about 700 gallons of gas per year (to go about 24,000 miles). If the price of gas were to go up by another $2/gallon, this will add about $1400/year to our transportation costs. That sounds like a lot until you consider the total cost of vehicle ownership. At $0.50/mile (~current price), this $2/gallon increment will add about 12% to our transportation costs. Most of us could save $1400/year just by cutting back on tequila and bourbon.
I think it's not the price of gas that upsets people but the uncertainty. The government should add enough tax to gas to raise the price to $5/gallon, then adjust the tax periodically to maintain that price. That would bring stability and predictably to the market. They could use the tax money to provide minimum health care to everyone.
What's an attendant?
Ok, wait, before everyone gangs up on me.... Someone who pumps gas FOR you into your car?
Weird, never seen one in the midwest. Usually only see big name companies like Amco, BP and Speedway. Or at least I think they are big name companies. Self served.
What's an attendant?
Ok, wait, before everyone gangs up on me.... Someone who pumps gas FOR you into your car?
Weird, never seen one in the midwest. Usually only see big name companies like Amco, BP and Speedway. Or at least I think they are big name companies. Self served.
In New Jersey, self serve is illegal. And the gas is still cheaper than in Pennsylvania.
My 2001 Ford Taurus got around 20 miles per gallon if I was lucky. It really should get more and I don't know why since I am not a dumbass when I drive.
Illegal? Why?
It was originally made illegal due to safety concerns...Oregon has a similar law. There has been talking of rescinding the NJ ban, but nothing that I've seen or heard recently.
Illegal? Why?
As I recall it had to do with a few issues, strength of the Unions who owned the gas stations, and some bogus issue about the seal made around the nozzel when put into the tank, that it had to be done by some trained monkey to pump the gas. All BS Politics as you can guess....
Recent gas expenses, and how much I make per mile:
January: $201 ($1.83)
February: $235 ($2.10)
March: $260 ($1.87)
April: $242 ($1.80)
May (4/29-today): $34 ($1.79)
Note how well I did in February...gas prices at the time were around $2-2.20.
I think I've done everything I can to maximize my profit and minimize costs, except for running stop signs. :D
Illegal? Why?
The guy's name was Jerry Ferrara. During 1970 gas shortages, he fought to require attendants to pump gas for safety reasons. And yes, gasoline pumped by an attendant is always cheaper in NJ.
Of course the Tappet Bros (Car Talk) provided a good example why some should not pump gas. As the lady opened her gas cap, her jewelry may have static sparked to the car causing a massive flame to flash out in air above her. New tires not using carbon black may create a static electric problem for cars. Maybe don't wear jewelry when pumping gas? Or go to Jersey.
As I recall it had to do with a few issues, strength of the Unions who owned the gas stations, and some bogus issue about the seal made around the nozzel when put into the tank, that it had to be done by some trained monkey to pump the gas. All BS Politics as you can guess....
Unions? Unions owned gas stations? Talk about BS.
Having seen some of the morons who pump gas in Jersey, the general public is often far better qualified to manage the job.
And yes, gasoline pumped by an attendant is always cheaper in NJ.
$2.73 in South Jersey, pumped by the attendant.
Not cheaper than Austin, TX self-pump...
I'm curious how much gas the average person here uses. My wife and I, between us, use about 700 gallons of gas per year (to go about 24,000 miles).
I think it's not the price of gas that upsets people but the uncertainty. The government should add enough tax to gas to raise the price to $5/gallon, then adjust the tax periodically to maintain that price. That would bring stability and predictably to the market. They could use the tax money to provide minimum health care to everyone.
I drive 350 miles/week roundtrip to work in a 2000 Taurus SEL V6 DOHC. ~300 miles is highway, average speed 75mph. (speed limit is 70) I keep track of my gas milage as an indicator of car 'health', and average 24mpg. Obviously less in the winter (~22) when I have to let it idle to warm up, but in the summer A/C does not seem to affect the average.
350mpw X 50wks = 17500 miles /24 mpg = 729 gallons of gas
X 2.50 (guess at average over the last year) $1823.
My yearly raises barely have covered the increased cost of gas for me over the last 6 years. This year I got a larger than normal raise, and it appears that gas is going to go up even more than it has in the past. *sigh*
Yes, there are vanpools and such, but my schedule is such that I don't work 8-4:30 exactly everyday, and as the primary caregiving parent, I need to be able to leave my job at any moment. I would in a heartbeat join one if it were practical. I'd get a lot more leisure reading or napping done that way :) There is talk of a commuter train to connect Iowa City and Cedar Rapids, which might offer me the flexability I would need, and if it did, I would likely begin to take that. Of course, it 's likely at least a decade before that becomes a reality.
Oh, and my husband drives about the same milage, but he drives a Silverado 4x4 that averages 14 mpg no matter what we do. His estimated fuel costs then are $3125. (at average $2.50)
Grand total for the Rat Family = $4948:whofart:
I drive 350 miles/week roundtrip to work in a 2000 Taurus SEL V6 DOHC. ~300 miles is highway, average speed 75mph. (speed limit is 70) I keep track of my gas milage as an indicator of car 'health', and average 24mpg. Obviously less in the winter (~22) when I have to let it idle to warm up, but in the summer A/C does not seem to affect the average.
350mpw X 50wks = 17500 miles /24 mpg = 729 gallons of gas
X 2.50 (guess at average over the last year) $1823.
My yearly raises barely have covered the increased cost of gas for me over the last 6 years. This year I got a larger than normal raise, and it appears that gas is going to go up even more than it has in the past. *sigh*
Yes, there are vanpools and such, but my schedule is such that I don't work 8-4:30 exactly everyday, and as the primary caregiving parent, I need to be able to leave my job at any moment. I would in a heartbeat join one if it were practical. I'd get a lot more leisure reading or napping done that way :) There is talk of a commuter train to connect Iowa City and Cedar Rapids, which might offer me the flexability I would need, and if it did, I would likely begin to take that. Of course, it 's likely at least a decade before that becomes a reality.
Oh, and my husband drives about the same milage, but he drives a Silverado 4x4 that averages 14 mpg no matter what we do. His estimated fuel costs then are $3125. (at average $2.50)
Grand total for the Rat Family = $4948:whofart:
LR - I have a 1998 Ford Ranger 4x4 that gets about 18 mpg. A few years ago, when I was driving 100 miles per day, I bought a Honda Insight. I've managed to average 66.7 miles per gallon (lower in winter, higher in summer, and much higher on long trips) over the last 4 years. But I still need the truck sometimes in winter or to help friends move.
Unfortunately, Honda doesn't make the Insight anymore, but I've been told that the Toyota Prius is a very good car. I wish the American automakers made some fuel-efficient cars.
P.S. I'm actually working more hours but making less money than I was 9 years ago, and driving more, so I definitely appreciate the increased fuel efficiency.
Jiggling his massive NeckMeats as he laughs all the way to the bank.
HLJ, in post #76 you said you and you wife use 700 gallons of gas to go 24000 miles/year. That's 34 mpg average. If you in your Insight are getting an average of 66mpg, and your Ranger is getting 18 mpg (but is very rarely used) what does your wife drive?
If you drive 1/2 of the time in your insight, 12,000 miles @66 mpg = 181 gallons of gas. 700-181=519. 2000 miles in the ranger = 111 gallons. 519-111= 408. 408 gallons of gas to drive 10000 miles would mean your third car gets 24.5mpg. What is it?
Of course the Tappet Bros (Car Talk) provided a good example why some should not pump gas. As the lady opened her gas cap, her jewelry may have static sparked to the car causing a massive flame to flash out in air above her. New tires not using carbon black may create a static electric problem for cars. Maybe don't wear jewelry when pumping gas? Or go to Jersey.
Why of course that is such a huge issue in the other 49 states...:rolleyes:
Unions? Unions owned gas stations? Talk about BS.
Yea, pretty much BS. But it was a state law as I recall, I haven't been there in years, therefore it is political.
HLJ, in post #76 you said you and you wife use 700 gallons of gas to go 24000 miles/year. That's 34 mpg average. If you in your Insight are getting an average of 66mpg, and your Ranger is getting 18 mpg (but is very rarely used) what does your wife drive?
If you drive 1/2 of the time in your insight, 12,000 miles @66 mpg = 181 gallons of gas. 700-181=519. 2000 miles in the ranger = 111 gallons. 519-111= 408. 408 gallons of gas to drive 10000 miles would mean your third car gets 24.5mpg. What is it?
LR, it's more complicated than that. I don't want to bore you with the details, but here is the break down:
Subaru 9,000 miles/yr @ 26 mpg = 346 gal/yr
Insight 9,000 miles/yr @ 67 mpg = 134 gal/yr
Ranger 2,000 miles/yr @ 18 mpg = 111 gal/yr
MR2 2,000 miles/yr @ 30 mpg = 67 gal/yr
Motorcycle 2,000 miles/yr @ 60 mpg = 33 gal/yr
Total ~700 gal/yr
All figures are approximate.
Notice that the Ranger uses almost as much gas as the Insight for much fewer miles. I try to drive that as little as possible. We also drive the Subaru too much, but the weather here is very unpredictable (we had 2-and-a-half feet of wet snow last Tuesday). Neither the Insight nor the MR2 (nor motorcycles) do well in snow.
The combined average fuel economy, based on the listed annual milage, is 34.7 mpg. My goal for the next 12 months is to get total fuel use down to 600 gallons for both of us, by driving less miles in the low-mileage vehicles and by driving less overall.
Complicated and thorough is better than vague and sketchy :D
Thanks for the clarification.
edited to add:
Oh, and I did notice the ranger almost = the insight, as it made me check my math before I posted...
My brother forwarded me this e-mail:
NO GAS ...On May 15th 2007
Don't pump gas on may 15th
in April 1997, there was a "gas out" conducted nationwide in protest of gas prices. Gasoline prices dropped 30 cents a gallon overnight.
On May 15th 2007, all internet users are to not go to a gas station in protest of high gas prices. Gas is now over $3.00 a gallon in most places.
There are 73,000,000+ American members currently on the internet network,
and the average car takes about 30 to 50 dollars to fill up.
If all users did not go to the pump on the 15th, it would take $2,292,000,000.00 (that's almost 3 BILLION) out of the oil companys pockets for just one day, so please do not go to the gas station on May 15th and lets try to put a dent in the Middle Eastern oil industry for at least one day.
If you agree (which I ca nt see why you wouldnt) resend this to all your contact list. With it saying, ''Don't pump gas on May 15th"
Sounds nice, but of course, it's an
urban legend.
May 15th catch a ride with someone to work, offer someone a ride to work, try the bus, walk to the library whatever. That will do a lot more...
Me, it's my 8th anniversary so we'll be saving enenrgy by dining by candlelight and sharing a shower...
If all the women in the US and Canada switched to rechargeable batteries in their vibrators, how many square acres of landfill could be spared?
Edited to remove 'single' from the last sentance since Bruce is probably right...
BTW, how do you do the cool strikethru text?
Probably less acreage than if the married women switched to rechargables.
May 15th catch a ride with someone to work, offer someone a ride to work, try the bus, walk to the library whatever. That will do a lot more...
Me, it's my 8th anniversary so we'll be saving enenrgy by dining by candlelight and sharing a shower...
If all the women in the US and Canada switched to rechargeable batteries in their vibrators, how many square acres of landfill could be spared?
Edited to remove 'single' from the last sentance since Bruce is probably right...
BTW, how do you do the cool strikethru text?
LR - your post makes a lot more sense than the "Don't buy gas on..." message, which seems to go around every time prices rise (sycamore, thanks for exposing that). There is definitely some bad logic there.
I think that whatever fossil energy you save by dining by candlelight will be exceeded by the human energy expended.
Lab, by typing the following all together: < strike > word </strike>
UT, it doesn't seem to be working though. I've tried to do it in SeaMonkey and IE to no effect.
Probably less acreage than if the married women switched to rechargables.
Or used a plug-in. Or even just had sex with ME.:o
Cellar dropped html support because it was dangerous, supporting many known hacks.
Or used a plug-in. Or even just had sex with ME.:o
(Shawnee runs away, scared by the thought of something that plugs into an electrical outlet being plugged into...well, YOU KNOW.)
:blush:
(Shawnee runs away, scared by the thought of something that plugs into an electrical outlet being plugged into...well, YOU KNOW.)
:blush:
:eek: :D
Speaking of electrical type currents and sensitive bits......
Has anyone had anything to do with
Electrosex (link NSFW!!!!)???
9/22/06
$2.13 on Wed in NJ
5/1/07
$2.73 in South Jersey, pumped by the attendant.
5/3/07
$2.83 today. That's a nickel-a-day increase. SUCKS!
The QuikTrip by my house is at $2.929...that's actually down, I think. I made good money on little distance ($119 on 50 miles) last night, so I shouldn't have to fill up until tomorrow now. Depends on how busy we are tonight.
Filled up yesterday morning at $2.83, (other grades are 2.93, 3.03)then on the way home that and all other stations were $2.95 (3.05, 3.15).
10 days ago or so the prices were in the 2.60s.
Taken a half-hour ago...motherfuck:
No camera :(
reg 3.45
unl 3.56
pre 3.66
Where is that bus pass??
Back down to $2.79 today. Better than nothing I guess.
This site from AAA lists current (US) gas prices: national, state and local.
fuelgaugereport.com
Prices listed include current, yesterday, month ago and year ago, for 3 grades of gasoline, plus diesel. Click on State by State Average to see a list of all states. Click on a state name and see details for that state. From there you can select View Metro Areas for more details. It also lists highest recorded prices and includes charts. You can spend hours at that site that you would otherwise waste in the Cellar.:rolleyes:
Does anyone want to bet on the gas price on Memorial Day (for those outside of the US, this is a
local holiday - celebrated on the last Monday in May - no one knows what it's for, except that it's the unofficial opening of the grilling season)? I'm guessing $3.149/US gallon national average for regular gasoline. Currently it's $3.009/gal.
This site from AAA lists current (US) gas prices: national, state and local. fuelgaugereport.com
Prices listed include current, yesterday, month ago and year ago, for 3 grades of gasoline, plus diesel. Click on State by State Average to see a list of all states. Click on a state name and see details for that state. From there you can select View Metro Areas for more details. It also lists highest recorded prices and includes charts. You can spend hours at that site that you would otherwise waste in the Cellar.:rolleyes:
Does anyone want to bet on the gas price on Memorial Day (for those outside of the US, this is a local holiday - celebrated on the last Monday in May - no one knows what it's for, except that it's the unofficial opening of the grilling season)? I'm guessing $3.149/US gallon national average for regular gasoline. Currently it's $3.009/gal.
Based on this I guess I should fill up my boat Friday. At 2.79 a gallon and a 135 gal tank I should save money before next week.
I paid $3.149 a gallon tonight...haven't broken the $40 fill-up mark yet, but I suspect I will within the next week.
$3.17 in 2007 money is abuot $0.65 in 1972 money - which was the prices of a gallon of gas in 1972. So gasoline prices have only gone back up to early 1970s prices when gasoline was still cheap. No wonder SUV sales are not hurt. Anyone hurt by a gallon of gas at this price needs to review their excessive life style.
Anyone hurt by a gallon of gas at this price needs to review their excessive life style.
If you're lucky enough to walk to work every day, like I do, it helps. And you also might want to think about how far the stuff you buy has to travel.
Anyone hurt by a gallon of gas at this price needs to review their excessive life style.
:whofart:
You've read about the obscene profits made in the petro industry, right?
It's
their excessive practices that should be reviewed, not whether the consumer might have an excessive lifestyle.
Anyone hurt by a gallon of gas at this price needs to review their excessive life style.
I drive for a living...I wish my lifestyle was excessive.
Anyone hurt by a gallon of gas at this price needs to review their excessive life style.
Oh yeah, my lifestyle is out of control. I go to work. I go home. There is no public transportation to speak of in these parts. Oh, and I visit my mom and dad in a neighboring town every Sunday. I'm livin' on the edge! ;) The gas prices hurt, and we should all be sick of bending over and taking it while the fat cats get fatter.
$3.17 in 2007 money is abuot $0.65 in 1972 money - which was the prices of a gallon of gas in 1972. So gasoline prices have only gone back up to early 1970s prices when gasoline was still cheap. No wonder SUV sales are not hurt. Anyone hurt by a gallon of gas at this price needs to review their excessive life style.
How does that compare to the rise in income?
How does that compare to the rise in income?
I think that that is going to depend on your perspective. The rich got richer and the poor got richer, but not at the same rate.
You've read about the obscene profits made in the petro industry, right?
So you read an article about one companies profits and assumed it is everywhere? Over the past 15 years, the oil industry underperformed. And currently, many in the oil industry are not making large profits. The large profits are mostly by a few well located businesses - not a function of the entire industry. And that industry is simply averaging out after a previous decade of unspectaculor profits.
You read about that part also? Or did your just assume that spectaculor profits by Exxon meant all are that profitable?
Oh yeah, my lifestyle is out of control. I go to work. I go home. There is no public transportation to speak of in these parts. Oh, and I visit my mom and dad in a neighboring town every Sunday. I'm livin' on the edge!
These are the good time. It does not get better than this. We are due for another 1970s or another 1989. Can you withstand a downturn?
It does not get any better than this. If life is tough now, then one must make plans now for when times actually become tough. If one is living on the edge now, then one is already in serious trouble. If trivial price of gasoline is so harmful, then one must reassess one's precarious situation.
TheMercenary demonstrates it. His boat holds 135 gallons. Will he stop using his boat? No. Price of gasoline has not increased significantly.
It does not get better than this.
I understand what you are trying to say, but I have to ask, wasn't it better than this two weeks ago when prices were a little lower than they are now?
I understand what you are trying to say, but I have to ask, wasn't it better than this two weeks ago when prices were a little lower than they are now?
Two weeks ago, things were sunnier. Today we have some clouds. How bad has it become. I am thinking of people sunning on a beach when a cloud blocks the sun for 30 seconds. Then one says to her companion, "It was so much better yesterday".
Remember what I had been saying years ago. Gas prices were way to low causing stifled innovation. Since I always look at the bigger picture, then I consider those price increases to be a very good thing.
Did you notice how stifled innovations are suddenly become 'new breakthrough technologies'? These ideas existed. Why now are they suddenly 'new'?
Some examples - hybrid technology which is based on concepts used in 1930s locomotives. CFL bulbs which have long been possible - I remember an article about building the circuits in Popular Electronics. A now defunct magazine which implies how long ago that technology existed.
Energy prices were so low that a company notorious for stifling innovation was using SUVs to cover up their hateful management. GM executives get promoted by cutting costs - which means stifling innovation. SUVs only made such anti-Americans look good. SUVs only possible because energy had become the cheapest ever in mankind history. Way too ridiculously low as indicated by even the new BMW SUV with 500 horsepower.
For those whose eyes glaze over when numbers are provided - the new BMW SUV has as much horsepower as the larger engines in the larger 18 wheel trucks. Why? Energy prices are just too low.
A 30 second cloud. It was so much nicer yesterday.
BTW when was the last time I drove a car that got less than 30 MPG? It was a 1969 Ford. And yet I read here MPG numbers such as 22; and that is good? That is pathetic. I have never had a Honda Accord average less than 30 MPG. Even my 1970s GM Chevy got 30 MPG - which is how long minimally acceptable technology has existed and avoided - because energy prices are too low.
Well said, TW. When gas gets to $5/gallon, people will react - there is some movement already, but not enough. Most people and companies look only at simple economics (payback), and ignore long-term impacts of their decisions. I don't expect this to change, but the economics will change, and that will make all the difference.
Well said, TW. When gas gets to $5/gallon, people will react - there is some movement already, but not enough.
Using perspective from the 1970s - no effort was made to innovate in American cars until gasoline prices rose to $7 per gallon in 2007 dollars. Shawnee123 - what will you do if that happens? That was late 1970s.
Oil industry analysts are asking why prices are spiking when nothing serious is ongoing. Review where the oil comes from. Even Nigeria may be on the verge of a country wide civil war. Iraq and Iran could be shutdown by military actions. Saudi Arabia could have more than half their export abilities impeded. Even Ethiopia may be drawn into regional wide war. Russia is slowly gripping their energy industry for one obvious reason. Russia must be prepared in case another cold war mentality starts. Did you notice how Europe - even Netherland and UK - are now dependent on Russian gas?
Last year, prices were high because so many providers had long term contracts. They had to hoard as much oil as possible with so many uncertainties and with long term contract requirements to fill. (And yes, many parts of the oil industry had to cover big losses as a result.)
Same situation applies this year except that more oil sources are now at risk. No, it does not look like $5 per gallon gasoline. But then it also did not look that way before it happened in the late 1970s. The fact that oil prices are rising early means prices will probably remain stable - not go to $7 per gallon of gas. Yes, an early rise of gas prices may actually be a good thing (for this year).
I am currently on a web seminar/conference call with the Union of Concerned Scientists regarding the IPCC Working Group III. The final Summary for Policy Makers was released today and they are discussing the options for reducing "greenhouse gases" in the environment.
Questions, so far, have covered everything from vehicle fuel economy standards to eating habits, which they seem to feel are two of the major factors contributing to greenhouse gases.
No one has mentioned human population yet, which I think is the most important factor.[FONT=Geneva][SIZE=2][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Geneva]
[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
I thought making cement/concrete was number two?
I thought making cement/concrete was number two?
This discussion was really on the direct effects of the individual ("consumer" - though that's not a term that I like). The rankings will be different if looking at all major sources, including power generation and construction materials.
So you read an article about one companies profits and assumed it is everywhere? Over the past 15 years, the oil industry underperformed. And currently, many in the oil industry are not making large profits. The large profits are mostly by a few well located businesses - not a function of the entire industry. And that industry is simply averaging out after a previous decade of unspectaculor profits.
You read about that part also? Or did your just assume that spectaculor profits by Exxon meant all are that profitable?
You made the assumption that I was referring to a story specifically about Exxon, which I'm not. What I was referring to is what it feels like being hit over the head with the term "record profits", over and over since last year.
Is it coincidence that when they're making "record profits", we're paying high prices? Also, I'll admit your remarks about excessive lifestyles rubbed me the wrong way because it sounds like you're making assumptions and generalizations. Some people may live an excessive lifestyle, but plenty of them live in poverty and/or paycheck to paycheck and gas is just one more necessity that costs more (and more and more).
You made the assumption that I was referring to a story specifically about Exxon, which I'm not. What I was referring to is what it feels like being hit over the head with the term "record profits", over and over since last year.
Let's review what happened to many oil companies during the year of Katrina. Many oil companies sign long term supply contracts. One who profited immensely from post-Katrina prices was Southwest Air. Many oil companies had to eat losses due to higher post-Katrina oil prices while Southwest profited significantly. Did you also see those industry losses?
Exxon, et al may have bought oil pre-Katrina. By the time oil arrived, prices were post-Katrina. So Exxon, et al reported record profits while you "suffered". Exxon did not gouge. That is how markets work and for good reason. Meanwhile, what was not reported? What Exxon, et al paid for post-Katrina oil. And then oil dropped $10 per barrel. Which oil industry companies lost money when that happened - or did your news sources forget to report that part of the story?
Again, if the oil industry is so profitable, then where are these major stockmarket price increases throughout that industry? They realized massive profits when oil went up and significant losses when oil went down.
Last year, prices were also high. Naysayers accused oil industry of price gouging. But oil industry had long term contracts that HAD to be fulfilled. Why were oil prices so high? Because the industry was buying and storing oil anywhere that storage could be found. When a hurricane season never happened, then all that stored oil was sold. At what prices? At prices far below what was paid. That fall, oil companies took significant losses because they had to hoard oil to protect their long term contract obligations. Did your news reports include that?
Why were those summer prices high? Oil industry had to do anything to have reserves should another shortage occur. The naive blamed greedy oil companies who, in reality, were only assuring oil would always be available. Prices properly sending messages to everyone as markets should. And those prices going up and down - insignificant.
Welcome to market forces that don't get reported. Welcome to the losses last fall that were not widely reported. Most of the oil industry did not reap the massive profits as speculated. Otherwise oil industry stocks would have massively outperformed the market.
So how big is this oil industry market? Last numbers I saw put Exxon at about 8% of the market. I don't see market gouging. I see volatile prices because prices typically would have to rise and fall $2 to $8 a gallon just to get people to respond according to supply variations.
Price change from 2.30 to $3.17? Insignificant. Expect such variations to be normal. Welcome to a world now made so unstable by George Jr.
Losses are deducted before the record profits are announced.
Losses are deducted before the record profits are announced.
So those record profits from one quarter are withheld until losses are recorded six months later? That is what xoxoxoBruce is posting.
Profits/losses are reported quarterly, but they are also reported yearly, and for longer time spans. You have to consider what your hearing. Is that what tw is denying?
Profits/losses are reported quarterly, but they are also reported yearly, and for longer time spans. You have to consider what your hearing. Is that what tw is denying?
Annual profits from Exxon have been spectaculor. It's president makes no apologies while claiming that Exxon is a particularly well run company. For example, companies that operate refineries don't have very good annual profits.
So we have a few companies with massive annual profits. We have many others that only have good profits in some quarters. And then when we sum together all profits over the decades, the oil industry has only been typical of other American industries.
Exxon’s spectacular profits. Other companies with suddenly profitable quarters. Does that mean all oil companies are gouging America? No. That means perspective has been distorted by only hearing the headlines rather than look at the entire industry – that is no where near that rich.
I agree that the sensational headlines are misleading. That's the nature of the media now. I also feel the public should take a jaundice eye at the headlines, and realizing how the media works, dig a little deeper before condemning (or praising) any person or organization.
I agree that the sensational headlines are misleading. That's the nature of the media now. I also feel the public should take a jaundice eye at the headlines, and realizing how the media works, dig a little deeper before condemning (or praising) any person or organization.
Returning to the question of higher gasoline prices. Why? There is no Katrina, etc to justify it?
I believe these oil traders have learned lessons from 2005 Katrina and from last year. They had to stock up in order to meet long term contracts. They did so too late last year. Therefore they had to sell oil off at a loss in the fall. I suspect oil traders were simply buying earlier so as to not be hurt by higher summer prices. IOW that price rise may actually be a good thing - industry preparing for a possible summer oil crisis. This is speculation based upon recent events and comments made by industry insiders. Appreciate the market. Even those participating in trading that is running up prices cannot be sure why prices are rising - because the market is that large.
Prices are not something to be controlled. Prices are the one real messaging system we have when a market is so big.
If they had to sell off at a loss in the fall why were home heating oil prices so high and suppliers blaming shortages?
Don't you think the spot traders running prices up on speculation makes the market unstable even though they are playing with a very small part of the market? The spot market jumps, the media screams, the public freaks because they don't understand the spot market, then the oil companies take advantage of the public's expectations of a jump in price by providing it.
Just don't buy gas on the 15th. Problem fixed. Ya right. I can't belive the dumb SOBs that foward that crap. :tinfoil:
The cheapest was $2.91 yesterday morning, almost filled up, but was only at 1/2 tank.
Dumb move.
All stations were at 3.09/3.19/3.29 on the way home last night... Grrrrrrrrr.
Well that "dumb move" cost you what? A dollar? Is a buck worth making an extra gas stop?
Regular this morning at the two stations I drive by $3.39 - $ 3.59 / gal.
Picked up a carpool partner this week. Theoretically, my commuting fuel expenses should drop to half the recent levels, no? Let's hope so.
I drove out of town on Saturday. Prices in the foothills of the Shenandoahs were 20 cents cheaper than in town. I had always heard that the blends of gasolines used in cities were more expensive for pollution control, but it was shocking to see gas for $2.79
if you live near any Native American reservation, you can often get gas cheaper there because they don't have to pay certain taxes
I drove out of town on Saturday. Prices in the foothills of the Shenandoahs were 20 cents cheaper than in town. I had always heard that the blends of gasolines used in cities were more expensive for pollution control, but it was shocking to see gas for $2.79
It's not entirely the blends, but what the traffic will bear, in the cities and 'burbs as opposed to rural areas.
They're fluxing pretty hard here right now. Some stores were at $3.149 yesterday, others at $2.969.
I spent $86 for gas last week...blecch!
Just got it for 3.09 POINT 9 (they think we don't get that it's really 3.10)
Put in 20 dollars for about a half tank. I can't translate that into 40 bucks a tank, though, because my car is goofy. Could be more, could be less.
Luckily, I really don't ever drive far anymore. It's sad, though, when a drive to the lake on a pretty day becomes an extravagance of sorts.
this sign says it all......:p
[ATTACH]12805[/ATTACH]
$3.76 / gal regular yesterday.
CNN had an interesting article on gas prices:
[SIZE=2]Behind high gas prices: The refinery crunch[/SIZE].
The article says that no new refineries have been built in the US since 1976, and discusses how this affects gas prices.
Why build expensive refineries when you can just raise the price for more profit? The greenies support this also because they feel increased price is the way to cut consumption.
Why build expensive refineries when you can just raise the price for more profit? The greenies support this also because they feel increased price is the way to cut consumption.
Don't you?
And, what's a greeny?
And, what's a greeny?
Environmentalists mostly.
Basically people that follow the
Green Party.
Why build expensive refineries when you can just raise the price for more profit? The greenies support this also because they feel increased price is the way to cut consumption.
It hasn't cut consumption...yet. I wonder what price will be the breaking point? Scary thought.
3.49 in suburbs of Chicago. Is it really 4.25 in Cali??? Sorry I haven't kept up with the thread.
It hasn't cut consumption...yet. I wonder what price will be the breaking point? Scary thought.
I don't know, but read somewhere a prediction of $4.50 before it
starts to affect SUV sales. That would be the first sign, evidently.
It hasn't cut consumption...yet. I wonder what price will be the breaking point? Scary thought.
Apparently there actually was a
driving cutback over the past year.
It looks to be more of "it's not increasing at the same rate" rather than serious cutting down (for the most part.) It's a start. But wait a minute...look who did the study:
"You have demographic shifts, traffic congestion and increased gas prices," says [COLOR="Blue"]Ed McMahon[/COLOR], senior research fellow at the Urban Land Institute, a non-profit group that promotes innovative development. "For the first time in recent history, the rate of vehicle miles traveled is not increasing at the rate it was for 25 years. It's having an effect and is changing in subtle ways the way people think about their driving."
He should be delivering my American Family Publishing Sweepstakes check, not conducting gas use studies. :rolleyes:
Not increasing at the same rate as the population means that people are cutting back. Not enough to counteract the larger number of people, though.
Not increasing at the same rate as the population means that people are cutting back.
True. Duh to me.
:o
I wonder if that data includes commercial traffic as well as personal vehicles? I'm betting the trucks rolling into walmart, supermarkets and home depot haven't reduced.
They said "average American motorist", so I'd doubt they're talking commercial vehicles.
I wonder if that data includes commercial traffic as well as personal vehicles? I'm betting the trucks rolling into walmart, supermarkets and home depot haven't reduced.
Nope. I clocked up over 100,000 miles last year and I plan to beat that this year. Commercial trucks will not slow down or stop because of fuel prices. We simply charge more to cover the increased operatting cost.
In other words, YOU buy the diesel that I burn at a rate of about 5.5 MPG. You pay for your groceries and widgets, which I bring to the stores. And waste fuel by idling away the nights to keep my truck comfortable and my TV running.
Never fear to ask me about trucking. I'm more than willing to share my inside knowledge with everyone!
Brian
I wonder if that data includes commercial traffic as well as personal vehicles? I'm betting the trucks rolling into walmart, supermarkets and home depot haven't reduced.
I bet the local delivery trucks for FedEx UPS etc have increased dramatically with online shopping.
Hitting $3.099 here in GA.
It's 30-35 cents more in CA. Sounds about right for the California antismog blend.
It's [almost] official --
we're above 1981 gas crisis levels.
While gasoline had already been in record territory in current dollars, Trilby Lundberg, publisher of the survey, said this is the first time that her survey topped her 1981 record high when adjusted for inflation. The price of $1.35 in 1981 works out to $3.15 in current dollars, she said.
...but it doesn't appear to be stopping anyone.
Still AAA is predicting a record number of Americans will be hitting the road holiday weekend, with 38.3 million expected to be traveling 100 miles or more over the Memorial Day holiday, up 1.7 percent from a year ago. And most of those - 32.1 million - will be driving on their trip, according to the motorist group.
I went to the gas station at lunch (only because as I was leaving the lot my car almost died due to low fuel.) That particular gas station was packed. I wondered why $3.15 was such a big deal. A woman told me the Speedway right up the street was at $3.49.
I should pay more attention!
I saw somebody on a Vespa-type scooter the other day. Unusual for my town. I've looked at those some.
I saw someone on a pink one with a matching pink helmet yesterday - looked very cute. They're probably dead now, since I saw them on 202 at rush hour, but still, very cute.
BTW - any locals know why it smells so bad at 202 and Westtown Rd? Has had that public restroom/ D-town paper mill odor for weeks now... never noticed it before.
Unleaded Fuel is $1.52 per LITRE here this morning.
I put the high performance stuff in my car, at a lovely $1.58...fuckers
Here's an article debunking gas myths, like the one that says running your air conditioner will use up fuel:
http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/070515/050907_gas_myths.html?.v=1&.pf=family-home
Notice it says that the best way to save gas is to drive sensibly at the speed limit and avoid quick stops and starts.
Like THAT'S going to happen!
Here's an article debunking gas myths, like the one that says running your air conditioner will use up fuel:
http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/070515/050907_gas_myths.html?.v=1&.pf=family-home
Notice it says that the best way to save gas is to drive sensibly at the speed limit and avoid quick stops and starts.
Like THAT'S going to happen!
I thought the best way to save gas (besides riding your bike) is to get one of
these.
My number one fuel-saving rule is "Brakes waste gas."
I think we should go back to horses for short distances.
Here's an article debunking gas myths, like the one that says running your air conditioner will use up fuel
Running an air conditioner will use up fuel. Maybe not a lot, but don't misread the article. It's simple physics. If you ask the engine to do more work, it will take more fuel to do that work.
If I'm sitting at a red light in neutral, and I turn on the air conditioner, I can hear the engine increase its idle speed as the AC compressor turns on. The article talks about a test done at highway speed comparing having the windows open to having the A/C on. They did not compare all the other various driving situations. The amount may be negligible, but it absolutely uses more gas to run the A/C.
The tips about driving habits and tire pressure are good ones though.
I thought the best way to save gas (besides riding your bike) is to get one of these.
Cool, do you need my shipping address so you can have your dealership deliver it to me? Thanks, man! :rolleyes:
Running an air conditioner will use up fuel. Maybe not a lot, but don't misread the article. It's simple physics. If you ask the engine to do more work, it will take more fuel to do that work.
If I'm sitting at a red light in neutral, and I turn on the air conditioner, I can hear the engine increase its idle speed as the AC compressor turns on. The article talks about a test done at highway speed comparing having the windows open to having the A/C on. They did not compare all the other various driving situations. The amount may be negligible, but it absolutely uses more gas to run the A/C.
Glatt - You're right. I've measured gas consumption due to AC in the Insight at 0.13 gallon/hour. This should be fairly constant whenever the compressor is running. I've measured fuel consumption in the Insight at idle, without AC, to be about 0.1 gallon/hour, so this is a significant increase.
An SUV getting 20 mpg at 60 mph would use 3 gallon/hr, and if the AC was using an additional 0.2 gph the mileage would drop to about 19 mpg - which would be difficult to measure without some added instrumentation.
Cool, do you need my shipping address so you can have your dealership deliver it to me? Thanks, man! :rolleyes:
Unfortunately, they stopped making the Insight a few months ago (that wasn't very good timing, was it?). I could probably sell mine for what I paid for it in 2003.
Unfortunately, they stopped making the Insight a few months ago (that wasn't very good timing, was it?). I could probably sell mine for what I paid for it in 2003.
Bummer. I'll take a Prius, then.
Seriously, I do look forward to getting a fuel efficient car in the future.
$2.98 today. Things are looking up. But I doubt it will last.
Maybe all the fires have slowed the tourist trade.
$3.229 in SoCal. Slowly drifting down. The price curve on gasoline reminds me of the light curve of a Cepheid -- steep rise, slow drop.
We know what the refiners are doing. They are making a mint under that slow-descent curve.
Found this picture from the BBC of an American gas station:
I have never seen gas at 4.00 a gallon. Crazy.
Oh sure, pick the fattest, bowlegged, knuckle-dragging, glassy-eyed, sports-car-driving frat boy as a representative of an American at the gas pump. Thanks, BBC.
Oh sure, pick the fattest, bowlegged, knuckle-dragging, glassy-eyed, sports-car-driving frat boy as a representative of an American at the gas pump. Thanks, BBC.
Notice that he is trying to supplement his gasoline with methane.
Down to $2.92 today. Lowest I have seen in a few weeks.
Some interesting comments by Thomas Sowell:
You know this is another example of TheMercenary's political agenda. The title is "Real Clear Politics". Then it talks about liberals. Extremists need extremists. If necessary, extremist will invent their enemies.
Extremists will even let bin Laden run free only because it serves their political agenda - reality be damned. The only thing predictable is that TheMercenary has no interest in reality - such as why gas prices are higher. Reality would not promote a poltical agenda.
You know this is another example of TheMercenary's political agenda. The title is "Real Clear Politics". Then it talks about liberals. Extremists need extremists. If necessary, extremist will invent their enemies.
Extremists will even let bin Laden run free only because it serves their political agenda - reality be damned. The only thing predictable is that TheMercenary has no interest in reality - such as why gas prices are higher. Reality would not promote a poltical agenda.
Bla, bla, bla. Why not address the article? You are more concerned that I am on here than you are about the substance of the discussion. What are you afraid of?
1 place 2.86 - but most others 2.96
$2.99 at the Food n Fuel on Highway 12 in Milbank, South Dakota today.
$3.29 at the Short Stop Shell in Buffalo, Wyoming, at exit 299 on I-25.
$3.09 yesterday. Still > $50 to fillup.
About like that in Ventura County, too: $3.08.
Definitely time to do your commuting in a light, small vehicle. Definitely time to make telecommuting the general thing. "Make Millions Working From Home ;)"
Ah, my favorite evil-revealing prankster group has
struck again!
Activist trickster collective the Yes Men used the Gas and Oil Exposition 2007 in Calgary, Alberta to stage their latest theatre of corporate absurdity, with Exxon/Mobil and the Natural Petroleum Council playing the fools.
...
After noting that current energy policies will likely lead to "huge global calamities" and disrupt oil supplies, Wolff told the audience "that in the worst case scenario, the oil industry could "keep fuel flowing" by transforming the billions of people who die into oil," said a Yes Men press release.
Yes Man Mike Bonnano, posing as an Exxon representative named Florian Osenberg, added that "With more fossil fuels comes a greater chance of disaster, but that means more feedstock for Vivoleum. Fuel will continue to flow for those of us left."
The impostors led growingly suspicious attendees in lighting Vivoleum candles made, they said, from a former Exxon janitor who died from cleaning a toxic spill. When shown a mock video of the janitor professing his desire to be turned in death into candles, a conference organizer pulled Bonanno and Bichlbaum from the stage.
Still down at 2.85 here. I heard a great rant by a financial planner the other day on the radio. Basically he said that buying a car or keeping a car that got a huge difference in gas milage really was not worth it unless you drove thounds of miles a month as part of your work. The cost to you personally was not worth making a big deal out of it. If you want a car with a huge gas milage savings of say 50mpg that is one thing, but the difference between owning a car that got 18mpg and 28 mpg really made no financial difference. If you do it because it makes you feel better about saving the world that is one thing, but unless all the trucks, cars, 18 wheelers, factories, and coal fired plants get on board at the same time you are not really having any effect on the world. Further people who drive 10 miles to save 5 cents per gallon are not really saving that much money. Some interesting thoughts....
I heard a great rant by a financial planner the other day on the radio.
If he said that it makes no sense to sell your current car and buy a new one just because the price of gas went up ten cents, then I agree with him.
However, if he said that when your old car dies, and it's time to buy a new car, you shouldn't consider fuel efficiency as part of the over-all decision, then he's a moron.
But if your car dies and you choose a gas miser to replace it, you won't get to use your share of the oil before it runs out. Someone else will be getting your rightful share with no compensation to you.... maybe even a foreigner.
I keep a lake of eternally-burning oil in my back yard.
You lie. In your backyard, it would have to be a lake of tar, or it would end up at the bottom of the mountain.
Now I know I've exposed myself too much in the Cellar.
Edit: responding to xoB, below: I suppose that wasn't the best wording, was it?
If he said that it makes no sense to sell your current car and buy a new one just because the price of gas went up ten cents, then I agree with him.
However, if he said that when your old car dies, and it's time to buy a new car, you shouldn't consider fuel efficiency as part of the over-all decision, then he's a moron.
Not really a moron. Not if the new car you can afford is equal to the efficiency of the car you lost. I think his point was it really has more to do with what you do with your car than some group of idiots preaching to everyone about your need to get a expensive car that gets 10 more miles per gallon. Not really all that important from a personal financial standpoint. I would have to agree.
Not really a moron. Not if the new car you can afford is equal to the efficiency of the car you lost. I think his point was it really has more to do with what you do with your car than some group of idiots preaching to everyone about your need to get a expensive car that gets 10 more miles per gallon. Not really all that important from a personal financial standpoint. I would have to agree.
Let's say you drive 15,000 miles per year and your old car gets 15 miles per gallon. If you replace it with a car that gets 30 mpg (still pretty modest) you'll save 500 gallons of gas per year. At the current gas price that's $1,500 per year. What else can you do to save so much so easily?
I thought the role of financial planners was to encourage you to save money.
Paid $2.889 a gallon today...it went up from $2.729 yesterday.
Let's say you drive 15,000 miles per year and your old car gets 15 miles per gallon. If you replace it with a car that gets 30 mpg (still pretty modest) you'll save 500 gallons of gas per year. At the current gas price that's $1,500 per year. What else can you do to save so much so easily?
I thought the role of financial planners was to encourage you to save money.
How do you save money if you sell a car you own, an older car, and buy a new car? Pick a number... either way you are now paying a car payment, what if it was only $200 per month {pretty damm low}, that is $2200 a year more in expense. If you can afford a really new car you would be paying more like $400 or $600 a year which would be $4800 or 7200 a year.
How do you save money if you sell a car you own, an older car, and buy a new car? Pick a number... either way you are now paying a car payment, what if it was only $200 per month {pretty damm low}, that is $2200 a year more in expense. If you can afford a really new car you would be paying more like $400 or $600 a year which would be $4800 or 7200 a year.
Sorry TM, I wasn't clear. This was for the case where you're ready to replace your car anyway.
Before I bought my Honda Insight, in 2003, I did the whole economic analysis and determined that the economics wouldn't be favorable unless gas went to $5/gallon. I bought the car anyway. Of course, after the car is paid off in a few months, I'll be saving quite a bit, compared to the Ford Ranger that used to be my primary vehicle.
HLJ, Got ya... But you do get my point. There are quite a number of emotionally motivated simpletons out there who think that by simply owning a car the gets better gas milage in someway saves them a ton of money. It might, it might not. There are quite a few factors that effect such a decision. Same for driving 10 miles to save $0.05 a gallon on gas. I have a boat with a 135 gal tank. I filled it with 100 gallons of gas the other day. The place near us sells gas for $2.90, the place in town, 10 miles away, for $2.85. I would have saved $5.00 in gas by driving to town. Towing the boat with my truck, getting about 12 mpg under towning conditions, would have cost me 2.00, I would have saved $3 by making the drive, not really worth it. People need to appy the same thought process to practical applications in buying a car. The bottom line is you are right, big differences are not going to happen till gas were to suddenly jump up to $5 or $6 a gallon.
TM,
In the last five years I've been involved in many renewable energy feasibility studies, probably 50 to 100, and I can only think of three that have resulted in hardware on the ground. This is almost always a decision based on economics.
I agree that most people buying fuel-efficient vehicles don't take economics into consideration in their car choices (or at least they don't do the math), but neither do people buying a Mustang or a Corvette or an Explorer. They might determine if they can afford the car payment, but probably don't give too much thought to the other operating expenses.
TM,
In the last five years I've been involved in many renewable energy feasibility studies, probably 50 to 100, and I can only think of three that have resulted in hardware on the ground. This is almost always a decision based on economics.
I agree that most people buying fuel-efficient vehicles don't take economics into consideration in their car choices (or at least they don't do the math), but neither do people buying a Mustang or a Corvette or an Explorer. They might determine if they can afford the car payment, but probably don't give too much thought to the other operating expenses.
Good points. True, it goes both ways.
I've seen the passdown of the cost on our imported goods as well.
Fruits, sugar, soda pop.
$2.76? In New York?! When, I wonder. I live out in the 'burbs where it's a bit lower than in the city, and I'm lucky my local station's price just dropped from $3.21 to $3.17. I'm just glad to not have to pay European prices.
$2.849 at a fill-up today.
Finally dropped below $2.80 today. $2.79 today.
$2.99 at the Maverik on West Franklin and Maple Gove in Boise, Idaho, today.
$2.699 at the local QT. I've found new routes to reduce the amount of miles I'm driving, while not wasting extra time. I'm down to just under 2 tanks of gas a week now.
It only cost me $102.65 to fill my truck today, yeah.
Holy crap! That must be a huge truck.
I put about $70 twice a week in my truck. Wife fills up one time a week, daughter more frequently, son more frequently.
I use about 11 gallons a month in the Insight.
Relevant cost is dollars per mile. For example, I see the naive lining up in the WaWa and Hess for cheaper gas that only costs them more money.
Just did my last tank that I expected to be a little better. Gas was $0.086 per mile. I was expecting more like $0.079 per mile. Gas mileage since ethanol has been noticeably lower compared to last year.
Amazing how people complain when gas is so cheap.
Don't forget to buy at cool night or morning, instead of during the hot day, when some kind of thermal expansion means you get less gas per each gallon you bought.
Amount of $ I make per mile
April: $1.80
May: $1.79
June: $1.82
Cost of gas per mile (estimate)
April: $0.225
May: $0.277
June: $0.242
sycamore -- are you only getting 13 mpg?
That's about right...keep in mind, I deliver pizzas in a city for a living.
You need one of these pizza delivery scooters.
Sorry, I don't know how to imbed a YouTube
video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3awQoP-bMckDon't forget to buy at cool night or morning, instead of during the hot day, when some kind of thermal expansion means you get less gas per each gallon you bought.
I've heard that, but believe it to be a bunch of hooey. Aren't the holding tanks
well underground? I doubt that the temp at that depth changes much. I mean, most caves around here are a constant temp for that reason. (OK, the caves are closer to the Mississippi, but whatever)
Someone have any Snopey type info to back me up?
Oh, I forgot to add, gas last night on the way to the pool $2.85. On the way home 1.5 hrs later, $2.99. Hayzeus.
This past week, we in SoCal were pleased to see it going below three bucks the gallon. We are dealing with the special California blends, though, intended to reduce smog in the Los Angeles valley.
And ethanol doesn't make as energy-dense a fuel as gasoline anyway -- mileage will always slump.
Someone have any Snopey type info to back me up?
Energy content of gasoline varies significantly just with different blends. Reynold number alone varies signficantly between winter and summer.
Problem with all these claims about colder or warmer gas - no numbers. Suggests junk science reasoning.
Prices vary even with season far more than the energy content in a gallon of gas due to temperature. If less energy in a summer gallon, well just another reason why that gallon costs a little less.
Meanwhile, how many people care? View the naive buying gas at discount stations (Sheets, Wawa, 7-11, Hess, etc) who therefore pay more for the gas - dollars per mile. Did they do the numbers? But again, so many just know; do not first do numbers. No numbers is how a junk scientist is created and promoted by the 'local gossip' (some call it the 5 o'clock news).
... Did they do the numbers? But again, so many just know; do not first do numbers. ....
So where's the good shit at? And how do you know?
BTW, stuck at $2.61/gal for about a week in New Jersey, right across the bridge from Philadelphia.
http://www.turndownhotfuel.com/myths.html
This is a trucking industry site, but I understand the problem better now.
The fuel heats up during the summer while it sits in above-ground tanks and especially while in the tanker trucks;
The fuel remains at the higher temperature for a longer period of time *because* it's in the insulated tanks at the stations;
The fuel *doesn't* change temperature from day to night;
When the truck offloads the gas into the tanks, selling it to the local operator, they compensate for temperature in the price; this same compensation doesn't happen at the pump, except in Canada and Hawaii where it's mandated;
It's not that much of a difference to really care too much about, but Kucinich is playing it like a fiddle in case gas prices make people dance.
It's funny that Hawaii has temperature compensation, considering how little the temperature varies there. The reference temperature in Hawaii is 80°F, but it's 60° in most other states.
I'd bet money there is a much bigger problem with uncalibrated pumps. Most places require once a year each pump be calibrated, but like so many other things the government does, Weights & Measures is understaffed and underfunded.
I asked one of these guys, I ran into checking the pumps at a station where I was filling up. "How many pumps do you find giving too much gas?". He got a hearty laugh out of that question.
I don't think the gas changes any temp at all in the majority of areas since even when it 100 degrees out, as it almost was today, a huge tank buried some 20 feet in the ground would maintain it at a rather cool temp. The gas is pumped directly from the underground tank into your car where it then heats up. But when it is sold to you it sounds like it would be at a pretty constant temp in the ground. No?
From the link...
MYTH: In-ground tanks at gas stations keep fuel at 60 degrees Fahrenheit.
FACT: The insulated, fiberglass tanks tend to keep fuel at the temperature it was delivered… for a long time. Also, larger retailers turn over fuel supplies very rapidly, greatly reducing the time the fuel spends in the tanks.
From the link...
Thanks. I missed it.
To most people, a buck or two on their monthly fuel bill won't make much difference. It's hard for an individual to grasp the huge numbers this adds up to for the oil dealers.
Where it shows up the most is for truckers, using large quantities of fuel. Thats where this movement started, but enlisting the general public they'll get further.
Background on the “Turn Down Hot Fuel” campaign
OOIDA Discovers a Heated Problem
In 2002, OOIDA staff began investigating the differences in mileages in diesel fuel from varying retailers, based on reports that truckers were getting different mileages from different fill-ups.
It was in this investigation they discovered that temperature was making a difference in costs.
It was learned that some fuels are sold as high as 90 degrees F.
An all-time high was sold to one driver at 118 degrees F.
OOIDA began taking its findings to the National Conference on Weights and Measures and lawmakers.
In 2006, some states began paying attention and set forth bills to address the problem.