So, there's this girl I like............
-Sorry, this is kinda long.
There's a girl I work with that I've always liked ever since she started to work there. She just broke up with her fiance a week ago or so that used to work there. They got engaged about a month after being together. (big mistake) Anyway, everyone knows I like her. I was the first one she called in tears telling about the breakup. I calmed her down, got her to laugh alot, so on and so on. I made a 45 min drive to work to calm her down again because her ex showed up at work one day. I did write her a letter letting her know my feelings toward her, and left it in her locker because I haven't had the chance to tell her in person how I feel. I know she's going to need time to recover from the breakup and all, and I am more than willing to respect and understand that. She seems to be kinda advoiding me now after what I did for her, and after I wrote that letter. I also heard from one of my friends that works with us that she would love to have his brother come over for a night!?!?:eek: Just curious if that is typical coming from a female coming from a breakup. Anyone have any suggestions on what I should do? Any input would help, especially from the females here at the Cellar. Thanks!:)
Continue to be nice and friendly to her, but give her some space. It's her turn to make some sort of move. You made your feelings known. If she's interested in you, she will respond. If she's not interested in you, she will feel smothered if you keep making advances.
Good luck.
She likes you as a person. A friend. It would not be wise to invest the next stage of your life thinking that you are going to change that.
THere is a lot wrong with this picture.
I agree, continue to be nice but give her some space. It is her turn to make a move when and if she feels that way inclined.
The brother thing, yeah well, I dont know how old either of you are. But I did that in my bit younger days. :redface: My ex broke up with me in a not very pleasant manner, so I slept with his brother......sooo immature. His brother and I were mates previously and continue to be so, but I felt bad that I used him like that (not that he was complaining :cool:).
I think its natural for her to avoid you at this stage, you DONT want to be getting involved with her just now if you really want this to work. Nothing worse than filling the void of a broken heart, to have the broken hearted mend and realise they "thank you for your time, but bye now, I'm all better".
Good Luck - you've been a great friend to her and I hope she appreciates it.
She's probably all fucked up in the head right now - and while you might think you're the exception, don't be disillusioned. Watch out for yourself - she's not intentionally trying to hurt you, but whatever crazy shit she gets into in the coming weeks will make you feel like a total turd for having bought into it. Love does funny things to your head. And women are nuts. (consensus?)
I went through this earlier this year. Totally fell in love with a married coworker, settled for becoming a really good friend instead. Then she split up with her husband and naturally I was the next stop. The whole time I knew exactly what was going on (that I was the rebound guy) but I couldn't handle it. Too hard to have a taste but then not have the whole thing. We were both depressed and it sucked. Ironically, I've been through this before, but this time I ended up moving to another country.
Up to you whether you want to wait for the fallout to settle. Try to keep your expectations low, if you do. Mine was a bittersweet ending - the week before I left (which was a month ago) she showed up and everything came pouring out. Spent my last three days with her but still got on the plane. We promised to find each other in a few years.
Push her down then run.
that is a great fuckin idea.
why don't i ever think to do these things when the time is right?? :eek:
Love does funny things to your head. And women are nuts. (consensus?)
Uhuh and Uhuh!! 'cept I would of said "fucken nuts".
that is a great fuckin idea.
why don't i ever think to do these things when the time is right?? :eek:
Hey! It worked in 6th grade.:cool:
Push her down then run.
Can I just trip her instead? :D
Well, after I wrote the letter to her and helped her out through the ordeal, she seems to be ignoring me now. Not even saying hi or thank you or anything. I told her she at least owes me a hug for everything I done for her, but she said I'll get one later. Whatever that means. I understand her head is somewhere else, but a simple thank you would have been fine. I think I just learned to stay out of other's people's lives and worry about mine.
:flipbird:
And thanks for everyone's input, you guys are great! I guess time will tell what happens.
I think I just learned to stay out of other's people's lives and worry about mine.
Personally, I think you overdid it with the baring-of-your-heart letter AND demanding a hug for your efforts, especially when you saw her backing off. I do think it was kind of you to assist her when she was emotionally fragile (when the ex showed up) but I also feel that was
your choice to do these acts and you should not have expected anything from her in return for your unasked for 'favors'.
No need to be keeping score.
If you do something nice, do it to be nice, not because you expect something in return.
It could be that she is embarassed about baring her private life to you and she does not know how to handle the emotions. Give her time, continue to be YOU and don't change yourself for anyone...they never appreciate it. The people who love you, love you for who you ARE, not what they want you to be and you trying to be it.
Hold out and give The-Right-One a chance to enter your life.
hh
I, too, got a creepy feeling when you said that she "owes you" a hug. I had a friend in high school who always wanted to be more than friends and had a very hard time accepting that I was not interested. He would always try to find ways to do "favors" for me and then act like I owed him something. To this day he genuinely can't figure out why I never dated him, and he's still pissed about it.
I, too, got a creepy feeling when you said that she "owes you" a hug. I had a friend in high school who always wanted to be more than friends and had a very hard time accepting that I was not interested. He would always try to find ways to do "favors" for me and then act like I owed him something. To this day he genuinely can't figure out why I never dated him, and he's still pissed about it.
What was really weird is when she put her head on my shoulder and give me hugs in front of her ex when he was right there. No, that wasn't an awkward moment or anything. But, at least a dam thank you would have been nice from her. I'm not pushing anything on her right now. The letter was just stating I do like her, but I know what she is going through right now. I know she needs time. It could be worse, I could be STALKING her like her ex was for a few days.
Hoof, thanks for the excellent advice. My eyes are opened now!
What was really weird is when she put her head on my shoulder and give me hugs in front of her ex when he was right there. ....
The emphasis is mine - she did all that stuff not because of YOU and what she thinks of you but because it was an easy way of getting at HIM. You could have been any guy in the world at that moment, just so's she could get at him.
I'm not pushing anything on her right now.
Good. Give her some space. When you do see her, be nice and be friendly.
Let her go and feel her way through this thing - be nice, but NOT too nice! She knows you are there if she needs you - don't keep asking or offering - just let her be. She's got a lot of shit to work out in her mind and then MAYBE, just maybe, she might want something more. Then again, maybe not. The balls in her court now not yours. I just wouldn't push anything or go out of your way to say Hi or stop by to chat - she'll probably think you are being too pushy or stalking her.
Let her go and feel her way through this thing - be nice, but NOT too nice! She knows you are there if she needs you - don't keep asking or offering - just let her be.
I must agree. If you make it too easy...why should she even try? Any relationship begun in this manner will be unbalanced and most likely doomed to failure. Half way, then let her come the rest. If she doesn't, then you haven't committed everything, have you?
...but it sounds to me like you already have, in your mind. Get over the "she owes me a hug or at least a thank you", I don't think she owes you
anything since you willingly offered yourself up as a doormat. Get out of doormat-mode and make her stand on her own two feet. If she's standing on yours, she won't respect them, she'll just wipe the mud off of her own feet onto yours.
hh
Unfortunately, the guys that get the chicks are the ones that ignore them.
Ladies will tell you I am wrong... I'm not.
She knows you like her, now blow her off.
I hate games, but you bungled it, you got into her space without her permission.
So you have to recover. Just back off and wait to see if she does anything... if she does not, chalk it up to experience.
My .02
Thanks everyone for the advice. I was actually kinda kidding around with the hug thing from her. Just knowing that I can make her smile and laugh through the rough time is good enough for me anyway. Maybe I should tell her that? I know she appreciated it though. Yeah, the ball is in her court now. We'll see what happens over time. You guys probably thought I was out of my mind! haha
You guys probably thought I was out of my mind! haha
No, but I was wondering about desperate. :p
Keep being you and allow her to appreciate who you are when she is ready to really see you. I think her vision will be too clouded at this juncture.
hh
Unfortunately, the guys that get the chicks are the ones that ignore them.
Ladies will tell you I am wrong... I'm not.
She knows you like her, now blow her off.
I hate games, but you bungled it, you got into her space without her permission.
So you have to recover. Just back off and wait to see if she does anything... if she does not, chalk it up to experience.
My .02
I wont say youre wrong. This is how I work unfortunately.
If I dont have to work at all and know that the offer of a future/relationship is on the table, I'm kinda like "eh - whatever".
But the chase is always appealing.
I can't really say what she is thinking as I don't know her. But I know when I was in high school and had just broken up with a serious (relatively) boyfriend it was very uncomfortable when a guy friend wrote me a letter saying he liked me. I didn't want anything serious and since we were friends I couldn't see us just having a fling, which is all I wanted. She might think that since she likes you as a person, any relationship with you would get serious and she isn't ready for that. If you make her think that she owes you something (even if you are kidding) then that would be enough for her to run the other way. She probably thinks it would be too awkward to say "thank you" to you at the moment. Or she thinks if she does say "thank you" it means she likes you more than she does and you will expect more from the friendship.
She was engaged after knowing the guy for a month??
RUN! Run like the wind!
It may have come across I was desperate, I didn't mean it that way. lol I did tell her in the letter that I know she needed some time and I will respect that. I did apoligize to her today. I did tell her I was kidding about her owing me a hug, and just knowing I made her laugh and put a smile on her face during the whole event was enough for me. I didn't mean to come across as a jerk or anything, I guess I'm just not good at this whole realationship thing. :neutral: I guess I'll see what happens. Right now I'm just going to lay low and take one day at a time. Thanks everyone for your help in this!
I was kidding when I made my comment, I'm sorry I didn't make that clear. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings. :redface:
FWIW, I think you're on the right track, now. Slow and easy...
Heidi
I was kidding when I made my comment, I'm sorry I didn't make that clear. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings. :redface:
FWIW, I think you're on the right track, now. Slow and easy...
Heidi
Oh gosh no you didn't hurt my feelers! :D I really do appreciate everyone's input. I wish I could buy you all a round of beer! :guinness: haha I'll let you guys know what happens. Yeah, she was engadged about a month after they met. That's what happens when you're young and stupid! I'm young too, but not that dumb! But, thanks again for all the input! Oh, I really never said what my name was officially yet - it's Patrick. :D :D
My two cents here: rkzenrage was only half right when he said that brushing her off is a good move. It's true that at this point if you try and get closer to her actively she will only push you away, but at some point she may (not will, might) come around. At that point, don't brush her off, because us gals tend to overinterpert things- we try to squeeze meaning out of every little gesture and facial expression- there's no way of knowing what conclusions she could draw.
Deep down almost every woman in the world is a hopeless romantic- we love being spoiled and having sweet nothings whispered in our ears when no one else is looking, and red roses will melt our heart every time around. Just wait until you've been dating for a while before you start- otherwise you will come accross as overeager.
And if she doesn't come around? Then she's just not good enough for you! You seem like a great guy, the way you supported her through her crisis, and there are plenty of girls out there who would love to date a guy like you.
She seems to be kinda advoiding me now after what I did for her, and after I wrote that letter. I also heard from one of my friends that works with us that she would love to have his brother come over for a night!?!?:eek:
Probably been said before, but you might take this a s a good sign, that she doesn't want to immediately get involved with you, because, as nice a guy as you are, she doesn't want to waste you on the rebound fling...
And if she doesn't come around? Then she's just not good enough for you! You seem like a great guy, the way you supported her through her crisis, and there are plenty of girls out there who would love to date a guy like you.
If I could only find a girl around here that likes nice guys! lol As of now though, I'm being totally nice and understanding toward her. I'm not ignoring her, but not going out of my way. She knows I like her and always have. She's been nothing but a sweetheart to me as of late now. But, I'm patient. If she dosen't come around, it's fine. Like I said earlier, knowing I was there for her makes me happy!
Tip from an old geezer:
Best way to find a woman is not to look for one. Most women would actually rather seduce the man. Just be available... from a distance. If she wants to play you'll be the first to know. Main thing is discretion. Keep it to yourself.
Update - So, I just called work to see when if I work tomorrow. She answered the phone. Found out when I work next. I asked her how she's doing today. She said she's still doing fine and all, and she called her ex today for whatever reason. I know it's alot easier for guys to get over past loves and everything, believe me I know this. Especially when someone treats you like garbage. Guess maybe she dosen't think like that. I just don't want any drama and be caught in between that situation. The only thing I know is if they do get back together, I don't want to hear every single day about how much he treats her like crap, yadda yadda yadda.
She's still talking to him?? Be very careful, sounds to emotionally wishy washy to me, needs to get her head on straight. Remember that Mr/Ms Right only needs to be chased in the movies, in real life it signifies an extremely emotionaly needy person who will read far too much into things and generally leave you with that stereotypical "Huh??:whofart:" expression on your face all to often. Maybe I'm just tainted, being around only engineering/medicine girls who have male emotional patterns stuck in a womans body. Remember this: "Everyone has somewhere between 1 and 1000 soulmates out there". Don't know where I heard it but it reaks of truth to me.
Also useful knowlege:
Meet "woman A". Woman A says she wants a man who is honest, caring, in touch with his feelings and can handle a steady relationship.
Meet "guy A". Guy A is a man who is honest, caring, in touch with his feelings and can handle a steady relationship.
Woman A thinks of Guy A as her "best friend".
Meet "guy B". Guy B is a loudmouthed asshat who drinks excessively, is abusive, dishonest, and cares only about himself.
Woman A can't get her pants off fast enough for Guy B.
Woman A then returns to emotionaly dump on Guy A about what a jerk Guy B was to her while Guy A sits there thinking to himself "I could have told you that was going to happen, so could any emotionally healthy rational adult".
Woman A thanks Guy A for being such a good friend.
Woman A then procedes to find Guy B ver. 2.0
Guy A starts trying to decide which caliber of bullet will be least likely to desturb the neighbors for when he recieves the inevitable phone call from Woman A about what Guy B 2.0 did to her
Does this sound jaded to anyone?
9th Engineer - Yeah, it seems she is still talking to him. I couldn't agree with you more on your post. It's one of the biggest things that I can't figure out why females like to deal with the asses that treat them like crap. I see it all the time here where I live. Guess I'll just sit back with the popcorn and watch. :)
Why do women hang out with asshats that treat them like crap? Ah, that's a question that's puzzled mankind for a LONG time. Countless books have been written on the subject...debates have raged for ages! In darker times some people even went to their deaths because of their position on the matter! Maybe it's time that we ALL agree that the true answer is that there is NO true answer!*
(*apologies to comic strip AGNES--my favorite!)
I don't get the self proclaimed Nice Guy (and in my case also Nice Girl). In my experience they are people who latch onto someone who has a more interesting/ emotional/ exciting [delete as appropriate] life than they do. They hang round the edges with big eager eyes hoping for some crumbs. They do not have the attributes to attract the object of their desire, so they mope, guilt trip and whine about "Nice guys always finish last"
I like to talk all night, get drunk and dance on tables and be indiscreet about sex. I don't care if someone opens doors for me - I'd rather open an email and laugh out loud. And I don't need someone to leave a lovely little choccy on my desk – I'd rather they remember that when I talk about Y that's my sister and X is my nemesis in the office, and not have to start at the beginning every time.
I have only ever been attracted to people because of their wit, their humour and – okay – sometimes raw sexual attraction. That does come with self confidence, but if that's NOT another word for ass-hattery.
I want people around me who share my tastes, my sense of humour and my passions. Or are willing to share theirs with me. I don't want someone around who is simply there because I am, or trying to get an "in" with me. For one thing it doesn't last. Some Nice People get Nasty behind your back when they realise you're not interested.
Hence my vehemence of course – I've been Nice-Burned twice. I'm sure this doesn't apply to anyone here. Just a rant.
I think part of the reason they go for the bad-ass is it excites them to not know what is going to happen in the relationship. And bad-asses are usually MUCH more persistant than the nice guys. A lot of the time when I was dating I didn't want a serious relationship, and I felt like if I dated the nice guy I wouldn't be able to keep it casual. Much of that was me being naive and inexperienced. How old is she? Part of the problem could be she doesn't know what she wants.
Another issue could be she was abused or molested when she was a child. I know several women who were, and they felt like they didn't deserve anything better (than abuse). They would sabotage their relationships with the nice guys because of this feeling of unworthiness. I don't know what her problem is, I am just throwing out possibilities.
When she gets older and matures, she should come around. If she doesn't, or she is already at the stage where she should have learned her lesson, then she will probably marry one of the bad-asses, have a couple deliquint kids, and then wonder what happened to her life. Some people never learn.
I don't get the self proclaimed Nice Guy (and in my case also Nice Girl). In my experience they are people who latch onto someone who has a more interesting/ emotional/ exciting [delete as appropriate] life than they do. They hang round the edges with big eager eyes hoping for some crumbs. They do not have the attributes to attract the object of their desire, so they mope, guilt trip and whine about "Nice guys always finish last"
I'm with you. Every guy who was ever interested in me that I didn't feel the same way about, he would whine to mutual friends about how girls don't like "nice guys." Just because you're nice doesn't make you attractive, and just because the guy we like isn't
you doesn't make him an asshat.
[COLOR=Navy]Woman A[/COLOR] says she wants a man who is honest, caring, in touch with his feelings and can handle a steady relationship.
[COLOR=Navy]Guy A[/COLOR] is a man who is honest, caring, in touch with his feelings and can handle a steady relationship.
[COLOR=Navy] Woman A[/COLOR] thinks of Guy A as her "best friend".
[COLOR=Navy]Guy B[/COLOR] is a loudmouthed asshat who drinks excessively, is abusive, dishonest, and cares only about himself.
[COLOR=Navy] Woman A[/COLOR] can't get her pants off fast enough for Guy B.
[COLOR=Navy] Woman A[/COLOR] then returns to emotionaly dump on [COLOR=Navy]Guy A[/COLOR] about what a jerk [COLOR=Navy]Guy B[/COLOR] was to her while [COLOR=Navy]Guy A[/COLOR] sits there thinking to himself "I could have told you that was going to happen, so could any emotionally healthy rational adult".
[COLOR=Navy] Woman A[/COLOR] thanks [COLOR=Navy]Guy A [/COLOR]for being such a good friend.
[COLOR=Navy] Woman A[/COLOR] then procedes to find [COLOR=Navy]Guy B[/COLOR] ver. 2.0
[COLOR=Navy] Guy A[/COLOR] starts trying to decide which caliber of bullet will be least likely to desturb the neighbors for when he recieves the inevitable phone call from [COLOR=Navy]Woman A[/COLOR] about what [COLOR=Navy]Guy B[/COLOR] 2.0 did to her
Does this sound jaded to anyone?
Not only does it sound jaded but it also sounds familiar.
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Guy X[/COLOR] says he wants a woman who is honest, caring, in touch with her feelings and can handle a steady relationship.
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Woman Z[/COLOR] is a shallow, irresponsible dingbat with enough emotional baggage to fill a 747 and doesn't have the slightest idea what she wants out of life or from a man or where she will be 48 hours from now. But she is unbelievably smokin' hot.
[COLOR=DarkRed]Guy X[/COLOR] can't rip his heart out of his chest and put it in
[COLOR=DarkRed]Woman Z[/COLOR]'s purse fast enough. Usually within 24 hours of making eye contact and before he has had a chance to even speak to her and in spite of the fact that she has never given the slightest hint that she even knows that
[COLOR=DarkRed]Guy X[/COLOR] exists.
[COLOR=DarkRed]Guy X[/COLOR] then returns to his buddies to complain that
[COLOR=DarkRed]Woman Z[/COLOR] ripped his heart out and backed over it with her car then asked him if he could wash her car while she complains to him that none of the three ex-cons out on parole she had wild-animal sex with last week called her back while his buddies sit there thinking to themselves "I could have told you that was going to happen. So could any emotionally healthy, rational adult."
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Guy X[/COLOR] thanks his buddies for agreeing with him that neither
[COLOR=DarkRed]Woman Z[/COLOR] nor life itself is being fair to him and that he is truly a martyr singled out for special suffering while others, blissfully unaware of life's complexities, enjoy a simple life filled with peace, happiness and contentment.
[COLOR=DarkRed]
Guy X[/COLOR] then pulls himself up by his bootstraps, spends the afternoon putting his heart back together with duct tape and fishing line then 7 hours later procedes to find
[COLOR=DarkRed]Woman Z[/COLOR] ver. 2.0. Wow. Woman Z 2.0 is so much hotter than Woman Z. [COLOR=DarkSlateGray]
[[/COLOR][COLOR=DarkSlateGray]Guy X thought bubble] [/COLOR][COLOR=DimGray]Now I understand that Woman Z
wasn't supposed to like me because if she did then I wouldn't be available for Woman Z 2.0! I can't wait'll I tell my buddies about
her! I wonder how she'll introduce me to her Dad? I bet her car needs washing. Ohhhh this is gonna be great![/COLOR][COLOR=DarkSlateGray] [\bubble]
[COLOR=Black]
Something's missing...
I got it. Woman Y. Who's woman Y? She's the [/COLOR][/COLOR]honest, caring, in touch with her feelings and can handle a steady relationship [COLOR=DarkSlateGray][COLOR=Black]woman waiting patiently for Guy X to notice her.
[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]
:biglaugha True, true. It's easy to forget though, especially in college. The shallowness gene isn't specific to either the X or Y chromosome set I guess.
My woman Y found me and thats the best thing that ever happened to me. It is much simpler and a whole lot more relaxing and enjoyable. So much less drama and BS, yet more of the honest, caring intimacy I was looking for. No head games.
(Naomi Nevill)
There's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
I can't reveal her name until I've got her.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
Well, I've tried to get her time and time again.
We just end up as nothing but friends.
And there's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
Well, there's a certain chick I've been sweet on since I met her.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
I can't repeat her name until I get her.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
Well one day, I'm gonna wake up and say,
"I'll do anything just to be your slave."
And there's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
Well, I've tried to get her time and time again.
We just end up as nothing but friends.
And there's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
There's a certain chick I've been sweet on since I found her.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
I can't reveal her name until I get her.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
Well now one day, get her time and time again.
We just end up as nothing but friends.
And there's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
I can't tell you. (No!)
I can't tell you. (No!)
I can't tell you.
Sundae, I agree with everything you said. Well put.
Sundae girl, to me nice refers to the way a man treats other people in general - not just being a leach who is too afraid of living to actually have a life of his own. Shit, I've done a lot of livin, much of it illegal or close to it and a whole lot of it very "stupid" and dangerous. Even I'm amazed that I'm still here alive and in one piece. That doesn't change the fact that I still treat other people with respect. I'm just not an asshole. Thats the distinction that I feel is important. Many women go after the asshole thinking hes cool or tough or whatever. On the other hand some guys that you would call "nice" are just wimps and those are what I think you are referring to (the wimps), not the nice guys. Maybe I'm wrong, but there is a very large distinction between the two.
Beestie, I never laughed so much when I read your post. :D That was great! Yesman065, I totally agree with you. That's pretty much the way I am. I do treat others as others treat me. But I do my damnest to be nice to everyone, but I definately ain't a wimp either. Anyway, I found out she does want to get back together with her ex. I guess whatever makes her happy is fine with me. I did hear though that if she wants him back, she would have to change her ways. Um, I think that's a two way street right there. She can do whatever she wants. I'm just going to back out of this situation. Thanks so very much for all the input you gave me. Everyone here rocks!
Sundae girl, to me nice refers to the way a man treats other people in general. That doesn't change the fact that I still treat other people with respect. I'm just not an asshole. Thats the distinction that I feel is important. Maybe I'm wrong, but there is a very large distinction between the two.
You are quite right, hence the "self proclaimed" part.
I'm talking about people who do little things for you that you don't want done, and assume this gives them a head start on your affections. They ACT rather than ARE nice. They totally miss what you find attractive in other people, part of which is the confidence to say Fuck You when it's necessary.
I've heard "Nice Guys" trashing their ex behind their back, dismissing other people on purely physical terms, whining about how much they spent on dating a woman etc etc etc.
Nice is as nice does. My best friend is probably the nicest man I know - and yes I would :)
Tip from an old geezer:
Best way to find a woman is not to look for one. Most women would actually rather seduce the man. Just be available... from a distance. If she wants to play you'll be the first to know. Main thing is discretion. Keep it to yourself.
I like that advice, it's actually working better than any other approach I've ever taken. Tried being a nice guy (not really spineless but not bold and intrepid either) for the first two years of highschool, got nowhere. Basically gave up for the second two (got beaten out more like it for a comment about how I thought the addition of a womens shotput section on our track team didn't make sense) and now I just don't persue any relationship more serious than a study-buddy. Guess what happened as soon as I stopped trying? Boggled my mind at first, then started making sense.
I have been in a relationship, a good one, for a very long time.
People keep coming to me for advice... eventually it always comes down to one thing. They are attracted to dick-heads.
My advice is always the same, date people you are not attracted to, you will find one that is a diamond in the rough.
Date with your head, then fall in love with your heart, together you will get the shit in your pants right... there are videos, classes, books and a life-time to deal with that (the least important of the equation).
No one ever takes the advice, that they all agree is excellent.
The other thing is, when they are in a bad relationship, usually a cycle "what do I do?".
My answer, after hearing of all the fucked-up shit the other person has done to them, their friends, kids and family.
Leave them, change your locks & phone numbers. Do not answer the door or phone... wait for them to stop trying, move on. That is all.
They always say... "I CAN'T DO THAT!"
I hate the word can't.
I don't understand, if you are dating someone for some time, realize that this person is not "the one"... you are not in your teens... what are you doing?
Sundae Girl - Those people you describe are two-faced not nice - but I think we agree - nice is a state of being not acting.
Wow rkzenrage are you ever right. Thats the advice I finally took and since then I've stuck to my guns, so to speak and I've never been happier. I've got 3 great kids and a great relationship with a new woman who loves me and treatws me like I need and deserve to be treated! Its absolutely amazing and I wish I had done this years ago.
Thanks, that is very kind of you.
That is very true.
Edit: I am a retard and the rest of my post was responding to another page of this thread, so I just deleted that part since it didn't really make sense here. But I agree 100% with rkzenrage. The man I am with now I would not have originally dated, but we became such good friends it kind of evolved. I definitely think that he is the one. :D
This is to set the record straight on the 'Nice Guy vs Lowlife Weirdo' debate that's sprung up. It's where I got the material for my Guy A/Woman A post. It was originally a peice written for an Undergrad journal at Penn State (I think), but it's so good it has to be shared. It's one of those things that after you finish reading you just kind of sit there for a few moments with your head off to one side in perfect contentment. It's that damn good. Enjoy.
[CENTER]Ode to the Nice Guys
[/CENTER]
[INDENT][LEFT] This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.
This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.
This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.
The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.
So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.
[/LEFT]
Fu-zu Jen, SEAS/WH, 2003
[/INDENT]
Ode to the Nice Guys
Holy smokes that was awesome. I'm left speechless after that because it's so dam true. Thanks 9th for sharing that. Wish everyone in the world could read that.
That was fucking perfect, 9th! I want one of those!!!!! Except I don't want to be (Hope to god that I am not) the girl in the peice.
Oh and rkzenrage, you're 100% right about dating someone you're not attracted to. The truth is, physical attraction builds over time- first you get used to them, then you become attracted to them. I know this from personal experience- there was a guy that I worked with, the first time I met him I thought of him as quite ugly, then as I came to know him for the great guy he was, it slowly evolved to the point where I was insanely hot for him. (Run-on sentence alert!)
Unfortunately, we live in two different countries now. :( Oh well, there are other fish in the sea.
You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.
Hmmm....nice sentiment. Unfortunately, I see nothing in the past or present to make me believe it's coming in the future.
Cynical? Maybe. Realistic, I think. Everybody loves a winner and winners tend to be the anti-thesis of Mr Nice Guy. :(
Hence the jaded attitude in the the Guy A story. The essay is what we all want to believe, but in all but the rarest of cases it's only fantasy.
I, if this is possible, am speechless. That is all of me put into a few paragraphs.
What?
I am friends with Nice Guys. They don't act like that towards me - we have give and take relationships.
Man - I endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys are...
Me - Really? How boring, when I witter on about my nemesis in the office my friends tell me to shut it
Man - I always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain myself to tentative hugs
Me - Are you saying that being there for a friend entitles you to a shag?
Man- I hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores
Me - And? Does she ask you to? If not stop doing it. Oh and I don't necessarily need to hear a breakdown of the Match for 90 minutes after it finishes, but if I'm out with a friend I'll go along with it. If she doesn't, drop her.
Man- I obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy my female friends are at the appropriate moment, because I know most girls need that litany of support
Me - If you don't like doing it, stop it. If you do stop using words like Obligingly and Litany. Some of your female friends probably don't realise you're not being sincere.
Man - She left 40 urgent messages on my cell phone, and when I called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner.
Me - You plum. That's not a friend that a needy disaster
Man - Even though I thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, I assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it.
Me - Blimey, you're not a very good friend are you. Hope she doesn't end up with a black eye at some point.
Man - She interrupted the best killing spree I’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world.
Me - If it was that big a deal for you, you should have told her you'd call her back
Man - And even though I thought it was immature and I had nothing against the guy, I paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor.
Me - Hang on, Nice Guy? Nice Guy? You're either spineless or spiteful if you do this just on her say-so.
Man - She didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of us, she dragged me to a party where I knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with me, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!”
Me - Why did you stick with her? Blimey - last time I dragged a friend to a party he got drunk & copped off & I got stuck paying for the whole fare home by myself! I forgave him though - he's a friend.
Man - the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches
Me - I beginning to think I don't want to be friends with you
Man - the world needs my patience in the department store
Me - and mine at the pool table - do I whine about it?
Man - my holding open of doors
Me - Again with the doors! I do that for other people too, you'd have to be really rude to let the door slam in someone's face
Man - My party escorting services
Me - Like I'd let a friend go to a party alone either
Man- my propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile
Me - Ah... Now we get to the crux of the matter. This female friend isn't a friend like I am. This "friend" is hot
Man - I tolerate all the crazy, inane, absurd things, I am the faceless, nameless hero, I want accolades, acknowledgement, and gratitude
Yes, you do don't you?
You don't deserve it.
If a male friend treated you like that you would delete their number from your phone. If an ugly female friend treated you like that you'd drop her like a hot coal.
You have set yourself up to be walked all over because you want sex with someone who doesn't want sex with you
And you think this makes you special.
And I bet you are making some sad mousy girl's life a misery whining about your goddess to her as well (only she has to go home and kick the cat)
NICE is as NICE does. Don't stay friends with users and you won't be used.
If any of my male friends were also "friends" with a woman like that I'd twat them over the head and ask them what on earth they were doing?
I'd say, "I know she makes you feel manly by being so needy, but you so don't need a friend like that! What's that? Oh you fancy her. Why? You don't seem to have anything in common..... Oh, she's hot. Right. Well what can I say, mate, you get what you signed up for."
Just to reitereate - I am responding to the piece quoted by 9th Engineer, I'm not directing that at anyone posting.
Just got off of the phone with my niece where I stated "just tell him the truth... what you honestly feel with no tricky language or things for him to have to figure out" six times. Finally, I figured out that she wanted a script... she is twenty-five and a very smart lady... in most ways. She has not seriously dated much.
You know, there is a few nice guys out there that does nice things just to be nice. I do nice things for people because that's how I want to be treated, unless they're an asshole first. When I'm nice to women, I really don't expect anything in return. I may have come across that way. 9th Engineer's post may have come aross the wrong way too. Some guys like to do nice things for women, but really don't have the intention of getting laid. I've helped many friends before and they turn thier back on you later like you never existed. I think that was the whole point of the Ode. Well, at least that's the way it came across to me.
Women want to sleep with men. They want to hang out with women. If you are the sexless, safe shopping buddy, it's because you're pretending to be a woman in order to make her feel comfortable. Whether or not you're trying to sleep with her is a separate issue.
The fact is, if you are "best friends" with most women, it's either because you have turned into enough of a chick that she doesn't see you as male, or she enjoys the schadenfreude of walking around in your cloud of pheromones pretending not to notice. There are occasions where other psychological factors come into play, e.g., one or the other acts as a parent figure or is gay, but not usually.
The physical attractiveness of the players doesn't matter. "Best friend" types tend to be similar to one another, and sexual attraction is bound to be tied up in there somewhere, even if it has been buried for the sake of "saving the friendship".
Women, stop pretending that you are surprised to discover that your male friend is not, in fact, a woman in disguise. Men, stop the madness. If you set yourself up to be a genderless drone to get closer to a woman you like, you are lying to yourself and her.
Men and women are programmed to bump uglies with each other, and this utopian idea that we can shut off that urge and all be one big happy ball of platonic oneness is absurd.
No, I haven't dated in awhile. Why do you ask?
Sounds like you're in the "treat women badly and they'll want to fuck you" camp.
Nope, I try to be nice to everyone. If you treat women badly, you probably treat men badly. The men just ignore you; the women talk about it to their friends.
Men don't stay on the phone with each other for 3 hours dissecting the hidden meaning of what their date said that night. Women do. If you stay on the phone with a woman for 3 hours while she dissects, she sees you as a girlfriend.
Say you're on the phone with a girl. Your side of the conversation consists of "hey, what's up? dude, that party was crazy...yeah i know, huh?....nah, not without their top running back....right...exactly...yeah, i'm going to go this weekend....alright...later."
You are treating this girl as a friend.
Now, say it goes like this:
"That outfit looked great on you, don't worry about it....no, he's the crazy one....well, how do you feel about it?....no, it's definitely not you. You had every right to think that....look, why do you let people treat you that way? You deserve so much better......i know....I know......yep...... exactly.....awww, don't say..... no, no, no, I would've said the same thing..."
etc.etc.etc. for an hour. You're trying to be understanding, and a good friend, and a good listener, and all that other stuff. You're taking on the role of a girlfriend. Guys don't talk that way to each other, only to women. This means one of (EDIT) 3 things:
a) you "like her" like her on some level, whether or not you admit it
b) she is your sister or mother
b) you are gay
If none of the above is true, this conversation would have you balled up in the fetal position with discomfort, praying for nuclear war or the rapture to deliver you from this hell of female heart-sharing.
oh by the way, this doesn't mean you can't be shopping buddies with a girl without an ulterior motive. But if you're shopping buddies with her for 3 years, you are either in love with the girl or hopelessly feminized. If you have a significant other that you are sleeping with, you have no shopping buddies. First of all, your girlfriend wouldn't allow it. Second, you would be getting your fill of all that girly stuff from the SO, and would rather die by fire than shop with yet another woman.
I disagree slightly
I do sometimes force my male friends to help me analyse situations. But I accept they do it under sufference ("I need a male point of view!!! Please?") And I have sometimes dragged them round the shops, but the truth is if I impose on them, they impose on me equally anyway.
I'm not interested in emasculating my male friends. I like them to be male. I also know which of my male friends would like to sleep with me. The fact that it's never going to happen doesn't stop us getting on as people. We bond via humour, intelligence, likes & dislikes.
I have sometimes thought, "If only I fancied X" but the truth is, I'd have to change myself completely for us to live together without killing eachother.
I've also thought, "I could so get it on with Y" but the same applies.
I think getting older helps you appreciate friends of the opposite sex more. At least one of you has the sense to realise it's more fun to have a frisson than make the beast with two backs.
would rather die by fire than shop with yet another woman.
Too true!
Women want to sleep with men. They want to hang out with women. If you are the sexless, safe shopping buddy, it's because you're pretending to be a woman in order to make her feel comfortable. Whether or not you're trying to sleep with her is a separate issue.
The fact is, if you are "best friends" with most women, it's either because you have turned into enough of a chick that she doesn't see you as male, or she enjoys the schadenfreude of walking around in your cloud of pheromones pretending not to notice. There are occasions where other psychological factors come into play, e.g., one or the other acts as a parent figure or is gay, but not usually.
The physical attractiveness of the players doesn't matter. "Best friend" types tend to be similar to one another, and sexual attraction is bound to be tied up in there somewhere, even if it has been buried for the sake of "saving the friendship".
Women, stop pretending that you are surprised to discover that your male friend is not, in fact, a woman in disguise. Men, stop the madness. If you set yourself up to be a genderless drone to get closer to a woman you like, you are lying to yourself and her.
Men and women are programmed to bump uglies with each other, and this utopian idea that we can shut off that urge and all be one big happy ball of platonic oneness is absurd.
No, I haven't dated in awhile. Why do you ask?
I happen to like to shop.
I happen not to have tried to fuck every women I am attracted to every chance I got because if they were fun to hang-out with, that can be cool as well.
I am a man and always have been. The women in my life have always been very satisfied and the current one still is.
I also got laid plenty... when I realized a chick was putting me in the "nice guy" role, that I liked, I called her on it. We became friends or I stopped seeing her... but the game stopped.
Men who think that "this" is manly and "that" is not... need therapy.
I have several women who are friends... men who cannot be friends with a women... need therapy.
If you can't compromise and shop (or anything else) with her while she does things you like to do, don't bitch when your relationship goes in the crapper.
I happen to like to shop.
I happen not to have tried to fuck every women I am attracted to every chance I got because if they were fun to hang-out with, that can be cool as well.
I am a man and always have been. The women in my life have always been very satisfied and the current one still is.
I also got laid plenty... when I realized a chick was putting me in the "nice guy" role, that I liked, I called her on it. We became friends or I stopped seeing her... but the game stopped.
Men who think that "this" is manly and "that" is not... need therapy.
I have several women who are friends... men who cannot be friends with a women... need therapy.
If you can't compromise and shop (or anything else) with her while she does things you like to do, don't bitch when your relationship goes in the crapper.
YES! A man who gets where women are coming from. Even if you posted in response to MrNoodle. You are the type of man I am friends with.
Sundae Girl, you have a very similar personality to my mother. Her personality puts her at odds with most other women however, for example she hates gossip with a passion (and any conversation longer than two sentences about someone not present is probably going to be gossip). She is extremely direct and to the point, with no real tollerance for emotionalism. Just out of curiosity, do you get along better in general with men than other women? You sound like you probably would.
In general - yes. I get on better with men than women if you look at my long term friend ratio. But I stand by my claim that I see a person first rather than a gender.
I have very strong bonds with the female friends I have made. And we're all "Real Women". We might not necessarily respond to emails about puppies and babies and chocolate. But we cry at adverts and books and over-analyse and confuse our partners just like everyone else.
I appreciate the difference between the genders. I just wish people would look deeper. Girly-girls can still get pissed and dance on tables. Proper Lads can still cry at a wedding. And both sexes can be arseholes or doormats.
I also got laid plenty... when I realized a chick was putting me in the "nice guy" role, that I liked, I called her on it. We became friends or I stopped seeing her... but the game stopped.
Asserting yourself in this way is a masculine thing to do. "I called her on it" is most definitely a male concept. The female version is "I asked her to please respect my feelings."
Men who think that "this" is manly and "that" is not... need therapy.
Men who have had "therapy" inflicted upon them can easily be identified by their claim that there is no difference between masculinity and femininity.
Shopping's fine, btw. I was just using it as the archetypical "girl" activity, like football is the "guy" thing. I happen to hate watching sports on TV, and can't even feign interest when people talk about them. That's not the point. The activity's boyishness or girlishness isn't defined by the activity itself, it's defined by how the people act while doing it, and the attitudes and moods they display.
You don't need a degree in psychology to tell when someone is acting like a girl/boy. Unfortunately, we've had enough "therapy" rammed down our throats in the last 40 years or so to make us feel guilty for noticing the difference. Women's magazines would have us believe that the ideal man is psychologically female, but able to move heavy objects.
I call BS. We think we're so enlightened -- we make fun of girls for being too frilly, make fun of guys for being too testosterone-filled, but at the end of the day, those very traits are what keep most of us interested in the other side.
(Your dad might collect lace doilies, and your mom might swing a sledgehammer at the construction site. Yay for them. I'm talking about generalities.)
This is all very interesting. I have always had more guy friends than girl friends--guys are easier to be with IMHO. I hate all the girly bullshit and after I turned 20 I stopped analyzing every utterance made by a man. I'd much rather work with men, much rather hang out with men and definitely rather have sex with men. I like men. I'm very glad I had male children.
As for dating people your not attracted to physically? Well, that only goes so far. A man asked me out last week and I just COULDN'T. He was so not my type--he smoked heavily, had very nicotine-stained teeth, and, judging by his legs had diabetes in the advanced stage. Does not wanting to date this man make me shallow? Come on, there are deal breakers for everybody. To date this man would have been a lie and that is not where a relationship should start.
Asserting yourself in this way is a masculine thing to do. "I called her on it" is most definitely a male concept. The female version is "I asked her to please respect my feelings."
Men who have had "therapy" inflicted upon them can easily be identified by their claim that there is no difference between masculinity and femininity.
Shopping's fine, btw. I was just using it as the archetypical "girl" activity, like football is the "guy" thing. I happen to hate watching sports on TV, and can't even feign interest when people talk about them. That's not the point. The activity's boyishness or girlishness isn't defined by the activity itself, it's defined by how the people act while doing it, and the attitudes and moods they display.
You don't need a degree in psychology to tell when someone is acting like a girl/boy. Unfortunately, we've had enough "therapy" rammed down our throats in the last 40 years or so to make us feel guilty for noticing the difference. Women's magazines would have us believe that the ideal man is psychologically female, but able to move heavy objects.
I call BS. We think we're so enlightened -- we make fun of girls for being too frilly, make fun of guys for being too testosterone-filled, but at the end of the day, those very traits are what keep most of us interested in the other side.
(Your dad might collect lace doilies, and your mom might swing a sledgehammer at the construction site. Yay for them. I'm talking about generalities.)
The therapy thing was not meant to be taken litterally... it was meant to mean they are in denial.
...
As for dating people your not attracted to physically? Well, that only goes so far. A man asked me out last week and I just COULDN'T. He was so not my type--he smoked heavily, had very nicotine-stained teeth, and, judging by his legs had diabetes in the advanced stage. Does not wanting to date this man make me shallow? Come on, there are deal breakers for everybody. To date this man would have been a lie and that is not where a relationship should start.
How about dating where the object is "attraction neutral"? I don't think anyone was suggesting you have to date someone you are physically repulsed by.
You'd have to be careful, if you really aren't attracted to your significant other in any real sense it's going to sneak up on you and cause problems.
How about dating where the object is "attraction neutral"? I don't think anyone was suggesting you have to date someone you are physically repulsed by.
I'm ok with "attraction neutral". The people I shouldn't date are the people I have
chemistry with. When sparks immediately fly I should run away. I hardly ever do, though, as that chemistry thing is so damn HOT. :blush:
Right. If you mix up your chemistry notes with your biology notes you'll fail both, miserably. ;)
How about dating where the object is "attraction neutral"? I don't think anyone was suggesting you have to date someone you are physically repulsed by.
Not at all... I was saying that you did not have to have that "WOW" factor.
In fact... for some that is a danger signal.
There has to be alot of different things thrown in the mix, the greatest of which is probably plain old committment and the ability to self-analyze. I'm having a little run-in with that right now in fact. I've been spending a bit more time with a female friend of mine I met last year, all class and work related stuff until recently. She's really easy to get along with so I enojoy working with her, plus her dry sense of humor is wonderful. Now I never gave much of a thought to anything more, she's extremely tomboyish so I guess I'm a little guilty of treating her more like a guy friend than a female friend. Thing is, I've noticed a bit of a change in the last week. She's dressing a bit differently, she used to show up to study nights in XL WrestleMania Tshirts, now she's dressing more femininly. Not the flashy look-at-me-I'll-give-you-a-free-peek type of college clothing that's everywhere now, but on her any article of womens clothing looks like a radical shift. Plus she's orchistrating little other changes. We ate lunch together for the first time the other day, plus she didn't want to eat it in the crowded cafe dinning room. We found a quieter spot in one of the lesser used hallways nearby. I know this isn't Earth shattering or anything, but it's a very sudden shift to a parallel personal relationship outside of our work life. I'm a college dude, but I'm not stupid enough to miss the glaring total makeover in her body language, style of dress, and persuit of conversations not dealing with enzymes, organ systems, or the like.
Ok, background is out of the way, on the the crux. I'm really not sure if I'm comfortable with getting a whole lot more intimate with her than this because something might come up in a few months that would make all this look like a bad teen movie. Another friend of mine has been having relationship troubles as of late, her boyfriend is kind of clueless, not a dick, but just hasn't figured out that he isn't in highschool anymore. She, on the other hand, has definately moved on. She's in the advanced biotechnology and organ engineering program here and is just amazing in pretty well every other way. Think tall and lithe with jet black hair and hazel eyes. Screems feminine beauty in every way and she's packing major league brains and talent. So now you see the issue, if she breaks up and I've led my other friend to believe we're settling into a romantic relationship it'll end up like a bad teen movie. If I was offered the chance at a relationship with friend #2 I can't see myself not taking it. And no one should ever be the one 'in the interm', even if it was never intended to be that way.
No hijack intended, just started talking and it felt good to be able to look at the situation on paper. I feel like I should write a script or something:neutral:
Also, negating this past week my friendship with both friends has been about the same, comfortable and we like each others company (being just about the only guy who will study with her without either making passes or trying to look at her blouse without getting caught is a big plus). Re-reading my post above made it sound like I'm ignoring what's in front of me for what isn't even in my court. Thing is, till now neither was in my court, now it looks like both will the passing through on slightly jogged schedules.
Friend 1 sounds cooler imho. Friend 2 sounds like a catch, but if you've been reading any of this thread, you know how well "I'll be her shoulder to cry on when she breaks up with the other guy and then maybe we can hook up" works.
Friend 1 sounds like someone with whom you can let a natural relationship develop. Friend 2 sounds like a crush.
If it don't come easy, you better let it go. I believe it was Tanya Tucker that said that.
My woman Y found me and thats the best thing that ever happened to me. It is much simpler and a whole lot more relaxing and enjoyable. So much less drama and BS, yet more of the honest, caring intimacy I was looking for. No head games.
Um...how long have you been together?:right:
No, that's not fair of me to be cynical. I just tend to end up with the stong willed type of woman. There's no lack of BS with that combination of me and them.
(Naomi Nevill)
There's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
I loved Warren Zevon's version of that.
Point taken noodle. On second thought though, why should I think the changes are aimed at me? Could be another guys she's dolling up for, no sense planning too far ahead until more data comes in.:3_eyes:
Els, yeah that's the version that's burned in my brain.
9th: Dude dude dude dude. Dude.
WTF? #1 sounds like someone that you can be with forever, has already shown that she's willing to meet you halfway, will be able to go camping with you and not get all gacked out by bugs, but can still get tarted up for a night on the town.
#2 is only in college (no put down, just saying) and is already displaying major league high maintence behaviour. She may be hot and she knows it and she seems restless. I'm sure you're all that and a bag of chips, but I get the feeling you and your pal will be able to compare notes if your friendship survives you dating her.
disclaimer: I have a thing for tomboys.
9th: sorry, I just read the last part of your post, where you descend into a rational fit of self doubt. Maybe you're right. I bet not though.
Why not next time you see her, give her the look that says she's just made your day, compliment her on how alarmingly stealth she is and suggest you two go for a walk in the park.
If she doesn't respond enthusiastically or has to check her date book, then you know it ain't you and you can go take your chances w/#2.
Elspode: Um...how long have you been together?
We just celebrated our 1st year together.
BTW, my wife and I were friends before we dated. Before that, she was a student of mine.
I think you should find someone else bro. She slept with her ex's brother and clearly regard you as a 'good friend'. It's probably not worth your time to be with someone who doesn't think of you the same way. I sort of get where youre coming from and believe me, unless you think she's the [B]best[B] fit for you, don't bother yourself too much. If she comes around that's great for you, otherwise keep your options open and date around (maybe shell get slightly jealous and you'll become more desirable to her)
Prolly sorted after 5 years......