tired of drama
Did you ever just wish your life was normal?? I am so emotionally exhausted these days from stuff that is going on with my boyfriend that I just want to sleep for days. I find myself on the brink of tears half the time because I won't let myself cry when I need to so it creeps out at other times.
Wow - I just read that and realized how it sounds. Before I get questions, no he hasn't done anything to me, it is just the situation that he is in and the fact that I am the only one who is making every effort to help him. Even his mother won't do anything. She isn't even nice to him on the phone and constantly bitches at him.
I wasn't trained to be a laywer!! I don't know what the crap is going on anymore! It's like I am in this big whirlwind that I can't get out of!!
Maybe you should see a doctor? I recall a thread about your boyfriend and he's in jail, right? It must be hellish on you. So overwhelmed. If you don't have money there are Crisis Centers in every American city. Go there. What are you doing currently to keep yourself putting one foot in front of the other?
My thoughts are with you.
Currently, the only thing that is keeping me doing all this stuff is that if I don't, no one else will. No one cares enough apparently. I actually just got a letter from him that helped ALOT.
It's just that it seems like the world just wants him to rot in there when he should've been out last week. No one is really helping me at all. I never believed people when they said that the legal system sucks, but man does it ever! Meanwhile the junkie that lives next door to him that was on probation for drugs got caught with paraphanalia (sp?) in a well known durg neighborhood and was in there less than 5 days.
Thanks for your thoughts
You're on a rollercoaster. First, you are despondent and overwhelmed, then, you get a letter from him and you're fine and it's all worth it.
Good luck.
I actually just got a letter from him that helped ALOT.
Is that because he explained things you didn't know and had filled in the blanks with your imagination? :confused:
Is that because he explained things you didn't know and had filled in the blanks with your imagination? :confused:
No, I know everything that he knows. It mainly said that he really appreciated what I was doing and that even though he was in there, he knows it won't be forever and that he is actually thinking about what he's been doing and what he wants to do.
You're on a rollercoaster. First, you are despondent and overwhelmed, then, you get a letter from him and you're fine and it's all worth it.
No, I got the letter before I posted. I still feel overwhelmed. I will feel overwhelmed until this whole thing is done. It made me feel better because it made me see that he did appreciate the whirlwind I am in and that he isn't planning something stupid for when he gets out. He is going to get his life into shape and grow up. I still don't see an end to this yet. I have 2 more calls to make at least if not more before I even see an end coming and it's driving me nuts.
I have backed away from a few men who were in my life and I'm just chilling. Healing up. It feels strange not to be at someone's beck and call, and have to shoulder their problems, with no appreciation.
But you could try it. Break away for a month. From where I'm sitting, I recommend it. I even feel a quilty pleasure from so much freedom!
IBreak away for a month.
bbro has waaaaay too much invested in him now. She is unable to break away.
You have to come to grips with reality.
You can promise, threaten, cajole, wave your naughty bits or bake him cookies, but there is no future "we" without him doing his part.
You're being ready, willing and able just isn't enough, if he can't get his shit together. He's got to want it....he's got to do it.
Remember the third part ......the part about being smart enough to tell the difference between the things you can and cannot do anything about.
Knitting, goldfish training or learning the Bagpipes, will keep you occupied in the meantime.... it'll also teach you patience. :D
bbro has waaaaay too much invested in him now. She is unable to break away.
It's not that I wouldn't break away, but if I do, then he will be stranded with no one to help him. I just can't abandon people like that.
You can promise, threaten, cajole, wave your naughty bits or bake him cookies, but there is no future "we" without him doing his part.
You're being ready, willing and able just isn't enough, if he can't get his shit together. He's got to want it....he's got to do it.
this I do realize. That is why even though he wants to high tail it to where I am as soon as he can with all his wordly posessions, I told him that we are going to do this slow. He is going to wrok for a few months up there and settle everything he needs to, get a mode of transportation, then come down here for a little bit. Once he is here, he must find a job. If it all works out, we will see how it goes for a couple of months, then decide if that living situation is one we both want. If he won't do all of what I said, then it will not happen.
The basic problem now is that he is still in jail. He should have been out on August 1st, but no one can tell me why he is there. I am not paying hundreds of dollars for a lawyer, but from what I can see, that is the only way to get anything done. The pubic defenders office is unresponsive. His Parole Officer won't talk to me and the judge hasn't gotten back to me from whan I called on Friday. This is the situation that is bothering me. It just seems that when I get an inch, I am knocked back a couple of feet. The thing that I am finding the hardest to deal with is that no one seems to fucking care, but me.
The thing that I am finding the hardest to deal with is that no one seems to fucking care, but me.
No one as in his family, etc., or no one as in the legal community? The legal community are like dogs...they only hear the high, long whistle of money.
No one as in his family, etc., or no one as in the legal community? The legal community are like dogs...they only hear the high, long whistle of money.
Well, his family isn't really the supportive type of family. His mother just constantly bitches at him and tells him she doesn't care if he stays in there for another 6 months. The legal community only wants money, but the public servants - judge, PO, anyone else - can't be bothered with it.
Why has his family abandoned him? He screw them over once too many, or, are they just 'bad' people?
From what I gather, they just aren't the supportive type, I don't think they abandodned him, I don't think they were ever really around. I never met most of them. His mother is just a bitch. No matter what he does, she always bitches at him. She bitches cause he didn't make dinner, then she'll bitch because he didn't make the right thing, then bitch because he didn't do the dishes.
It just seems like a bad environment all the way around.
I have chosen not to play games any longer, I give warning then stop.
There are a lot fewer people in my life now but I am much happier!
See, here's the thing. We teach people how to treat us. Our own expectations and boundaries indicate to others how far they can push us. If we don't draw the line and say here is where what's good for you conflicts with what is good for me, they'll generally assume they can keep on taking.
In addition, if we don't take care of ourselves first, we really are of very little use to anyone else. An emotionally, physically and financially drained person can't effectively help or assist anyone.
Sometimes people don't draw the line or say 'enough' because giving to others feels good, because they expect something in return, or they simply aren't attuned enough to their own needs to know when giving has become detrimental to their well being.
Engaging in other people's drama is a choice. You have the right to say no and/or to walk away. It is not your responsibility to 'fix' another person's problems. Sympathy and empathy are all well and good, but when you become so enmeshed in another person's individual issues that they become yours, you've lost sight of what is healthy.
Stormie
I agree Stormie. I guess my problem is that I can't just abandond someone I care about. Basically, if I don't try, there won't be anyone else to. I am not necessarily trying to fix the problem. Just help out. I guess it just kills me to know that someone is completely alone when they don't necessarily have to be.
I got way more involved when the lawyer decided to not help anymore. They had an agreement about payment and all that, but the lawyer decided that he wanted money. After two weeks of telling us things that didn't happen, he wanted paid.
I try to say no, but if I didn't help, no one else would have. I would never want to be in that position.
I guess I am just too soft-hearted for my own good.
O. M. G.
don't let that disuade you, though.. Fight! Fight!~ fight for the right of all of us..to...do...look! We warned you heathens!!!
And, so on.
See, here's the thing. We teach people how to treat us. Our own expectations and boundaries indicate to others how far they can push us. If we don't draw the line and say here is where what's good for you conflicts with what is good for me, they'll generally assume they can keep on taking.
In addition, if we don't take care of ourselves first, we really are of very little use to anyone else. An emotionally, physically and financially drained person can't effectively help or assist anyone.
Sometimes people don't draw the line or say 'enough' because giving to others feels good, because they expect something in return, or they simply aren't attuned enough to their own needs to know when giving has become detrimental to their well being.
Engaging in other people's drama is a choice. You have the right to say no and/or to walk away. It is not your responsibility to 'fix' another person's problems. Sympathy and empathy are all well and good, but when you become so enmeshed in another person's individual issues that they become yours, you've lost sight of what is healthy.
Stormie
I'm quoting this post because it bears reading a second time......and a third. Just short of having tattooed on your forearm.:thumb2:
I agree Stormie. I guess my problem is that I can't just abandond someone I care about. Basically, if I don't try, there won't be anyone else to. I am not necessarily trying to fix the problem. Just help out. I guess it just kills me to know that someone is completely alone when they don't necessarily have to be.
I got way more involved when the lawyer decided to not help anymore. They had an agreement about payment and all that, but the lawyer decided that he wanted money. After two weeks of telling us things that didn't happen, he wanted paid.
I try to say no, but if I didn't help, no one else would have. I would never want to be in that position.
I guess I am just too soft-hearted for my own good.
OK, you're a softy, but not stupid. You've thinking, using your head, got a plan.
That's not the same as leading with your heart, and blindly thrashing about like a pinball. Good for you!
Being a "girlfriend" carries no weight with the "public servants" (oxymoron). I'm pretty sure there are actually legal restrictions on the judge about discussing his case with you.
Quite often prisoner release is delayed for no discernible reason other than they didn't get to it. Could be some clerk's on vacation. What's he going to do, say, "You didn't release me on time, so I'm staying...I won't go."?
You can inquire and remind them, but they call the shots, so don't let it make you nuts. You've got more important things to make you nuts. :lol:
Good luck and keep us posted on your mental health....ok?
Surprisingly Bruce, they have no problems giving me the information once they get around to getting it. Scary, huh?
I am trying not to let it take control. I even told him last night that I was tired of this. I am going to try a little more this week, but after that, I just physically, emotionally, whateverally, can't anymore.
He made his bed.......
His life is the consequence of his actions. He is using you.
You deserve better.
Let's see,
He is in jail.
Everyone who knows him or has gotten to know him (except you) has written him off as a loss.
He is a lowlife.
Dump him now and be done with it.
Unless of course you have been in prison?
Then stay with him, but do society a favor and don't reproduce.
Let's see,
He is in jail.
Everyone who knows him or has gotten to know him (except you) has written him off as a loss.
He is a lowlife.
Dump him now and be done with it.
Unless of course you have been in prison?
Then stay with him, but do society a favor and don't reproduce.
Whew... that's harsh. Just because he's in jail does not make him worth the world leaving him to his own devices. Yes, he's obviously done something wrong and should be punished justly for it. But does that warrant the judgment of "lowlife?"
And as a member of the Big Brothers/Big Sisters program, I've seen plenty of wonderful children who have come from families where one or both parents have been in jail at some point. They should not be written off because of the mistakes of their parents.
Bbro, keep your chin up and your eyes open. For now, you're doing what you feel is right, and that's honorable. Fight the good fight until you can't anymore, and when it's all said and done, you'll have no one to answer to but yourself.
Whew... that's harsh. Just because he's in jail does not make him worth the world leaving him to his own devices. Yes, he's obviously done something wrong and should be punished justly for it. But does that warrant the judgment of "lowlife?"
And as a member of the Big Brothers/Big Sisters program, I've seen plenty of wonderful children who have come from families where one or both parents have been in jail at some point. They should not be written off because of the mistakes of their parents.
Bbro, keep your chin up and your eyes open. For now, you're doing what you feel is right, and that's honorable. Fight the good fight until you can't anymore, and when it's all said and done, you'll have no one to answer to but yourself.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Yeah, I admit, it's harsh. I also don't believe in third chances and it sounds like this guy has had quite a few more. Why would a (self described) caring person waste time on something like that when they can get someone better who will appreciate their caring nature?
Yes you can get good children from homes with a criminal in them but it is definitely the minority. They produce what they are.
"Yeah, I admit, it's harsh. I also don't believe in third chances and it sounds like this guy has had quite a few more. Why would a (self described) caring person waste time on something like that when they can get someone better who will appreciate their caring nature?"
Not only that, but all the expended effort and time could be better spent on someone who may be more deserving and benefit from it creating a positive string instead of a dead end.
I'm sorry, I am not sure where you get the third chance thing? He is not a lowlife criminal like you would think. He didn't murder anyone, he didn't steal from anyone, he just made a stupid mistake.
I don't think he will be a dead end. He has a lot of good chance to get a good job where I am. He has a job for when he gets out already lined up. In fact, he has 2.
His family has never been there for him, neither has his mother. And no, he doesn't have many close friends because he never gave enough of himself up to have them. The ones he did have when I met him, he has distanced himself slightly because they are not doing things that I approve of.
MsSparkie - I would say he is using me too except that when I told him I couldn't do eveything there is to do anymore, he stopped asking. Last night when I talked to him, he didn't even ask if I made any calls or anything. We just chatted.
Just don't wear yourself out, because then you can't help him or yourself.
Follow your heart and cover your ass, ok? ;)
Follow your heart and cover your ass
Excellent. I may borrow this--do you mind?
bbro. There's a obviously a strong connection between you and this man. It's heartbreaking to love someone and know that they are alone in the world.
It's a terrible thing when parents have no caring for their children and it usually leads to those children having great difficulties later on: be that a difficulty in forming strong bonds as adults; a crushing sense of their own lack of worth; a determination never to let themselves be hurt again or a destructive streak that leads them to make errors in judgement which land them in trouble.
All of this can make such a person emotionally dangerous, but that doesn't mean they are not worth fighting for. You're the only one who knows if this fight is a worthwhile one, likely to result in a peaceful victory or an exercise in futility destined to rob you of years of your life and leave you wishing.
My advice, is to be careful and caring. Be there for him. But also be there for yourself. His troubles are not your troubles, but that doesnt mean you can't help him to overcome them. Just be sure that you are helping him with open eyes, you certainly sound like you are. Be ready to gently disengage, if you get the sense it is a bottomless pit.
Will do Bruce, nice saying - did you come up with that :)
Dana - wow, seems like you have been in this situation. You described him almost perfectly. That is why I want to get him away from his mother so that he can see he is worth something.
Thanks for all the replies - I do appreciate them. It helps me to think if this is a right thing I am doing or not.
Will do Bruce, nice saying - did you come up with that
Yeah, it's the reader's digest version of the two trains of thought I had. ;)
No, I know everything that he knows. It mainly said that he really appreciated what I was doing and that even though he was in there, he knows it won't be forever and that he is actually thinking about what he's been doing and what he wants to do. ...
No, I got the letter before I posted. I still feel overwhelmed. I will feel overwhelmed until this whole thing is done. It made me feel better because it made me see that he did appreciate the whirlwind I am in and that he isn't planning something stupid for when he gets out. He is going to get his life into shape and grow up.
Spending a lot of time around high recidivist criminals has taught me a number of things.
A couple of posts downstream from here you post things like "he doesn't know why he is there" and "his Parole Officer won't talk to me."
This tells me two things. First, the fact that he already has a Parole (not Probation) officer indicates that he is a career criminal. He has been in prison before, and instead of getting out and being put on probation, he is on Parole, which is a higher level of monitoring, and likely on a state or federal level of crime rather than county.
Second, his not knowing why he was placed in a correctional facility is bullshit. The rules of the game allow him to claim innocence or lack of responsibility, but everybody in jail or prison knows what their originating charges are.
You may derive some type of thrill for hanging out with a bad boy, but what's this doing to you?
Spending a lot of time around high recidivist criminals has taught me a number of things.
A couple of posts downstream from here you post things like "he doesn't know why he is there" and "his Parole Officer won't talk to me."
This tells me two things. First, the fact that he already has a Parole (not Probation) officer indicates that he is a career criminal. He has been in prison before, and instead of getting out and being put on probation, he is on Parole, which is a higher level of monitoring, and likely on a state or federal level of crime rather than county.
Second, his not knowing why he was placed in a correctional facility is bullshit. The rules of the game allow him to claim innocence or lack of responsibility, but everybody in jail or prison knows what their originating charges are.
You may derive some type of thrill for hanging out with a bad boy, but what's this doing to you?
I'm sorry, I have not been clear and careful in my postings. He has a probation officer - I always get them mixed up (I always assumed there was no difference until recently). He was on probation for a DUI. He violated the probation and that is why he is in there, but he doesn't know why he is
still in there. His PO promised him he would not be in jail past his total 90 days (Aug 1st)
Many times I have wondered what attracted me to him. It actually isn't the bad boy thing. I actually don't like it too much. He's gotten himself under control a lot since we started getting serious. I like what I see when he is just with me. He is kind, tender, loving, and makes me feel worth something. Like no one has ever done before. We have been through a lot in out soon to be 1 year together and no matter what we always seem to not be able to stay away. Everytime we may have had a fight or done something REALLY stupid (me), when we were back together it was better than before.
Sorry, I guess I am rambling now.
*smiles* you clearly love him, and he sounds like he is just a bit messed up to me. I get the impression Wolf tends to think the worst of people who have fallen foul of the system. Probably comes from working with people who really are dangerously on the edge....(or hurtling over the edge.) Don't be put out by her unwillingness to give this guy a break. I have no doubt she's seen many young women like you hurt by 'badboys' and probably seen many women attracted to those men for all the wrong reasons.
What's important is: does he treat you with kindness and respect? Do you feel like you are both equals within the relationship? do you fulfil each others' needs? is he worth it? are you?
It's always difficult to tell from forum posts, but my instinct is saying this lad is just a bit off the rails and with some pretty good reasons. Not every guy who needs rescuing is a lost cause and not every 'badboy' stays that way. Growing up is hard enough, but when your family isn't a part of that, if they're making you doubt your own worth, then sometimes that growing up takes a little longer and is more painful.
You've been with him a year you say? *smiles* the way you describe him and the way you describe your feelings for him, reminds me a lot of my first love. My only great love. We were together for 13 years. We split up but are still best friends. He was worth it, but we paid a great price at times. I don't know if I'd advise my younger self to stay the course, looking back. Then again, I don't know if I wouldn't. Of course, now we're both all grown up. He's a stable and gentle man and will make the right girl a wonderful husband :P
So you say it was a simple violation of his probation. Probation he was put on for DUI.
First - No one is caught the first time they are DUI. Many of us (me included) believe that people that commit DUI are just murderers that have been lucky enough not to kill anyone yet.
Second - What was his violation? DUI again? Something else? You haven't mentioned it. And this whole "we don't know why he is still there" is just annoying.
Oh, by the way, a good user will know when to back off and let the guilt settle in so you will continue to help and he can continue to leech off of you.
Out of interest bbro, how old is he?
Dana - There is only one time that we didn't get along (when I messed it all up), he wanted to hurt me, but when he saw what it was doing to me, he couldn't bring himself to do it, even though I deserved it (in my eyes). He has always been loving and honest with me. He didn't want to intentionally hurt me, but didn't lie to me to protect my feelings about what he saw happening with us in the very beginning of us. :) He is my first love. He is 36. When I met him, he had lost his job, had to move back with his mother, was dealing with a bad breakup and a whole bunch of stuff. I think I gave him some hope that life isn't so bad (At least I like to think so)
People that have been fucked over, and maybe even more so, for people who've provided a shoulder to others that have been damaged, tend to build a list of flags/signs/patterns that indicate bad behavior. We all do it to some extent, it's only natural. It's also natural to add to, or modify, that list by applying personal pet peeves and hot buttons.
Some people become a walking, talking, early warning system, but as someone once said, if your looking for trouble, you'll find it.
Keeping in mind that every person and every situation is unique, will temper the temptation to condemn everyone that sets off your alarms. After all, those alarms should be cautions not automatic convictions.
In affairs of the heart, use your head, but don't discard your gut. The gut feelings, sixth sense, vibes, what ever you call it, are a valuable resource when balanced with rational/logical thinking.
Besides, it's better to have loved and lost, than never loved at all....as long as you practice damage control. :2cents:
People that have been fucked over, and maybe even more so, for people who've provided a shoulder to others that have been damaged, tend to build a list of flags/signs/patterns that indicate bad behavior. We all do it to some extent, it's only natural. It's also natural to add to, or modify, that list by applying personal pet peeves and hot buttons.
Some people become a walking, talking, early warning system, but as someone once said, if your looking for trouble, you'll find it.
Keeping in mind that every person and every situation is unique, will temper the temptation to condemn everyone that sets off your alarms. After all, those alarms should be cautions not automatic convictions.
In affairs of the heart, use your head, but don't discard your gut. The gut feelings, sixth sense, vibes, what ever you call it, are a valuable resource when balanced with rational/logical thinking.
Besides, it's better to have loved and lost, than never loved at all....as long as you practice damage control. :2cents:
She wants him, so she will have him. So let her learn. She came here seeking advice, yet she is ignoring it. It's her heart and checkbook, why care.
This guy is a repeat screw up....his mother washed her hands of him for Pete's sake...that alone is an alarm that is the most loud.
She'll be here next year screaming emotional victim of a relationship gone bad or something.
Hi, Kayami. Welcome.
I agree with your post 100%. Nothing we can say or point out as Bad Omens will dissuade her--as you said, she wants him. She tells us all the things that went wrong/bad and then backtracks--oh, those wrong/bad things were HER fault! He's truly a victim! His mother is bad, not him! Poor, poor baby. She's not nearly tired of the drama. Not nearly.
First time DUI's don't go to jail (if it's a simple DUI); what condition of probation did he manage to violate?; how old are you? (you said he was 36) and how much money have you spent on him?
I think there are some possible warning signals here; however, the fact that his mother washed her hands of him may be more indicative of her being a bad mother than his having screwed up so much. The reason he is so unhappy and given to self destruction may be due to her lack of mothering. Personally I am instantly suspicious of any mother who wold 'wash her hands' of her child, regardless of their age or how much they fuck things up. In my view, your mother is the one person on the planet that you should be able to rely upon. She's the one who should love you unconditionally.
Nope, Bbro has not reached her limit of drama. Some people complain about it, but are addicted to the excitement it brings. So they continue to stay involved and even stir the drama pot themselves from time to time.
DanaC, unconditional love doesn't mean continuing to bail (pun intended) the person you love out of their scrapes time after time. Sometimes, the best way to love someone is to let them face the consequences of their actions and learn a lesson or two.
Stormie
DanaC, unconditional love doesn't mean continuing to bail (pun intended) the person you love out of their scrapes time after time. Sometimes, the best way to love someone is to let them face the consequences of their actions and learn a lesson or two.
That's true enough. But I know enough people whose parents just didn't love them to know that it happens. I also know the devastating effect that can have on a person's self esteem. The effects don't stop just because someone reaches their majority.
Well, we don't know what the story is with his mother and I doubt we will ever know. What bbro knows is probably filtered thru the boyfriend and he may not be a reliable witness. I know plenty of people who say "mom and dad don't love me" as an excuse to continue doing what they are doing.
*nods* that also is true of many people.
I think my point really, was that we cannot use the Mother's unwillingness to help him/love him as evidence of his being beyond help. She may be a loving mother who has finally had enough of his antics. She may be one of those women who just didn't bond with her baby and left him emotionally bereft throughout his growing up.
He may or may not be on a journey towards self realisation in which bbro can help or provide a necessary anchor, or he may be in a cycle of self-destruct and denial which will (or has) draw her in and make her part of his destruction. It's impossible to tell really, from what she has said here.
I would suggest she needs to be as self aware as she can possibly be whilst involved with this man. She may be right about him and be the one to provide him the support he's lacked thus far in his life. She may be catastrophically wrong about him in which case she needs to be ready to bail out before he has a chance to drag her too far into his destructive pattern.
If someone will not help themselves you cannot help them.
very true. But if someone has reached the point in their life where they really do want to try and help themselves, you can offer support (moral at least)
True, if they are actually willing to make changes & not just talk about it.
Change, real change, is so very difficult to maintain. As human beings, we almost always revert back to the familiar, no matter how nasty it is.
Bri, that has a horrible ring of truth to it.
glad we agree on something! ;)
Oh shug, we agree on lots! .....we aso disagree on lots and that's usually more fun :P
I never said that he didn't fuck up. I know he did, but the sentance is more than should have been dealt given the crime. It was also his probation officer saying one thing and doing another. I didn't come on here for advice on whether or not to dump him, I just wanted to be able to unload on some people I thought would be the last to pass judgement because no one here is innocent.
When I said that there was something my fault, that was in response to DanaC's questions. In that particular incident, it was my fault, and that has no bearing on the happenings right now.
And about his mother, it is not just what he tells me, it is what I see myself. She is a royal bitch. No matter what he does, she bitches at him and expects him to be at her beck and call. He has never once said that she is the reason he has made mistakes. He takes the blame for them.
But like I said, I never wanted this to be about whether or not I should stay with him.
She'll be here next year screaming emotional victim of a relationship gone bad or something.
No I won't.
Bbro - relax a little - many here are genuinely concerned and you may have taken their comments out of context. They/We have lived a lot of life and are just giving you honest, unbiased opinions. Take 'em or leave 'em its up to you. By the way - no one here is passing judgement on anyone - at least not that I have seen in my time.
By the way - you said he was 36, how old are you again??
Good luck with everything.
I never said that he didn't fuck up. I know he did, but the sentance is more than should have been dealt given the crime.
What did he do? You won't say. All you say is that the punishment didn't fit the crime--that's what everybody in jail says: I'm being unfairly treated. I didn't
really think I'd go to jail for not following the rules! Look, you're on probation, you keep your nose spotlessly clean. (and I've been on probation--it was enough for me, thanks) It's supposed to be a wakeup call and guess what? He didn't wake up.
Stay with him, by all means. It sounds like true love.
The point is you are both where you are now, right now. Cannot change the past & we can't discuss things you are only going to talk around.
What is he going to do to change his actions from now on?
No drugs, no alcohol abuse, perfect behavior while inside, constant job while out?
If that is the case, I see no issue. If his mother does not believe he has changed, then it is time to move on.
If she just wanted to unload without any advice she could have written herself a letter and then burned it.
Next time I will
So, i was right, then. You just wanted us to pat you on the head.
Consider it done.
(In the interest of full disclosure, bbro quoted a post I made and I was trying to re-quote it and it got deleted by me. I didn't mean to delete it. --but she quoted the meat of my post and I did ask her, again, to tell us her age, which she has not and, I suppose, will not)
So, i was right, then. You just wanted us to pat you on the head.
That's a little harsh Bri. I think she just wanted a receptive group of people to offload to. Is that really such a crime?
bbro. Don't be put off by this. Some of us are very eager to advise and some of us are very eager to crticise. That means we've read through your posts and formed an opinion. Take it as a mark of our good intentions.
Guys, give the girl a break eh? Many of us have come onto these boards when in distress and poured out our hurts to these pages. Sometimes, when life is a little too painful or confusing, it can help to write about them on here. It helps to hear if others have similar experiences, it helps to hear feedback. That doesn't mean one is contractually bound to taking that advice. Indeed, would it really be sensible to base life decisions on the opinions of people you've never met nor ever are likely to? People who only have the fragments of situation that you've been able to write about.
I've done it. Many of you have done it. Written about something that's really getting you down. We're a bunch of sometime friends and sometime combatants and that's what makes us a valuable resource, even if it's just a bit of banter when things look bleak.
So, in a year's time she might be here again, upset and the victim of a relationship gone wrong? The fact that she didn't heed the advice of the people here would not make her any less deserving of our sympathy in that situation. None of us know the future. None of us know the man she's talking about. We do not know that the advice we give is sound, we just know it's what we think we'd say if we had all the information.
I have a couple of rl friends who've been through some horrible times with men and flown in the face of advice they've been given. When it all went belly up for one of them, do you think rest of our little group turned our backs on them? Of course we didn't, we're mates. We did the only thing a mate can do in that situation : we got out the giant tub of icecream, several large bottles of wine and did our best to get her laughing again. That wasn't the time or the place to say we told her so.
Thanks DanaC, that's what I wanted to say, but you did it much better.
And since it is such a big deal, I am 26
If I'm not mistaken, we were (including myself) very sympathetic; Re-read the first few pages of the thread. It is the continual deflection and hedging and unwillingness to come clean and be honest that rankles me.
And, Dana, telling people what they want to hear is not advice. So, she didn't come here for advice? Then she wanted complete sympathy and agreement and yes-people. We are not supposed to point out things that may be a difficult TRUTH but may save her in the long run, we are only to murmur reassurrances and nod our heads in a consoling manner no matter what. Oh, ok. Now I get it.
It is the continual deflection and hedging and unwillingness to come clean and be honest that rankles me.
Where? No, I didn't divulge my entire situation because all the reactions I have ever seen elsewhere is to tell the poster to run as fast as they can because he is in jail. I didn't want to tell my age because I expect threads saying that I am young, I don't know, etc, etc, again because I have seen it before. I have mixed up the word probation and parole.
And yes, you are right, most people were supportive and had advice that was delivered in a constructive way. That I am grateful for. No, not all of the advice posted was of the "Stand by your man" variety. It was more "look out for you and keep your eyes open" variety. And yes, there are posts that I completely ignored because to me they seemed to be an attack rather than advice. I don't see the point of answering them.
I never meant to seem deceptive or anything like that. That wasn't my intention. Maybe in this case, as you suggested, me writing it down somewhere because I don't know what kind of response I was looking for. I just needed to get it out.
bbro--I don't know you in the slightest, I only know what you have posted (and, omitted) here. My feelings come from having seen/heard this many times. These are my questions (ones you've never answered, and no, you certainly do NOT have to answer them to me or anyone but perhaps YOURSELF)
1) What number is this DUI for him? It cannot be his first. I got a DUI in '04 My first. I was not sent to jail, I was not put on probation (that was for something else) and I even got off on a 'failure to maintain distance' complaint because I didn't take the breathalizer. SO. How many DUI's are we talking? Because I have a feeling it's far, far from his first consequence of alcohol or drug abuse.
2) What did he do to land on probation? Perhaps if this was his 3rd, 4th, 5th DUI or was it something else? Maybe he did an B&E. Who knows? Doesn't really matter to anyone but you and him. Anyway--he is on probation and probation officers HIGHLY recommend that you be a very good citizen while on probation. I wonder why he messed up when he knew how seriously he was being scrutinized.
3) What did he do to fuck up probation?
And, be honest with yourself here.
4) how many times has he been married?
Probation officers are usually so overworked and overbooked that they only take real interest in those who pique the radar. WHY is the system against him? Have they dealt with him before? Do they KNOW him?
It's really no matter to me if you stay or go or sink your heart, soul and savings into this guy. It's YOU. YOU matter and I've a feeling you've given yourself away. That is what bothers me.
and, actually, I am rather reassured that you are 26. i thought you were younger.
I agree with Bri here... you seem smart and nice, but a "fixer". Not a very productive hobby/way to pick em'.
Think this through. Doing this because you won't be the last to leave is not the best way to make a decision... stay if you think it is a safe and good bet.
Do what is right for you. One day you may be doing it for your child.
1) What number is this DUI for him?
It is his second
2) What did he do to land on probation?
That was the original sentance when he was charged. He has just been fighting it a while
3) What did he do to fuck up probation?
The ankle bracelet was tampered with (broke)and he had a dirty sample
4) how many times has he been married?
None
Probation officers are usually so overworked and overbooked that they only take real interest in those who pique the radar. WHY is the system against him?
He does know a lot of people in the actual system because of where he grew up.
Have they dealt with him before?
He has never dealt with this probation officer before - he is a bit of a dick, I met him a couple of times.
Do they KNOW him?
He was in trouble for something else, but his probation officer was in a different section and thinks very highly of him and even calls to check on him even though he is all done with it.
I think what makes me seem younger is my lack of life experience. I mean, yea, I have some things, but not nearly as much as some people here.
rkzenrage - I am definately thinking it through every day.
Alcohol is a tough monkey to shake and can't be without wanting to and help.
You can be the reason for wanting to and the help, but you have to be aware the battle is never over with booze.
If you feel you're up to it, go for it, but don't get complacent, because it'll bite you on your lovely butt. ;)
There are a lot of interesting answers up there, bbro. I can read between the lines.
As someone with 7 months of probation for DWAI left, and hours and hours and hours spent in therapy, classes, community service, etc., I can say with some authority that your boyfriend has a looooong row to hoe.
If he's effing up while he's on paper and in the system, what's he going to do when he's finished his time and no one's supervising him? Right now I'm in therapy with a 60-year-old guy who shot someone over a dope deal, a couple DUI cases, several drug users who got caught doing whatever to support the habit, and 2 guys who beat their girlfriends/wives. Out of those 10-15 people, maybe 4 of them can really be said to be "trying". You can see the difference in their eyes and their body language. What's the look in your boyfriend's eyes?
It's really no matter to me if you stay or go or sink your heart, soul and savings into this guy. It's YOU. YOU matter and I've a feeling you've given yourself away. That is what bothers me.
bbro, this is a line to read and think about.
[Quote=Brianna]
It's really no matter to me if you stay or go or sink your heart, soul and savings into this guy. It's YOU. YOU matter and I've a feeling you've given yourself away. That is what bothers me.
bbro, this is a line to read and think about.
[/quote]
I agree and will.
What's the look in your boyfriend's eyes?
One that says he wants to get out of this and start over. I think that is one of the reasons he wants to come down here with me so bad.
The only way he can start over and not repeat the same mistakes is to have an alternative way of thinking. The good thing about being under constant supervision is that it breaks you free of your drug at least temporarily. During the time when your access to the drug is limited, you've got to be making good habits. Can't just say "I'm not going to drink anymore" or "I will control it better". When the triggers happen that make you want to use -- boredom, stress, pain, whatever -- you have to force a new response. Eventually, assuming you stay clean, the new response can become as natural as the drug use was. It's not automatic -- it's a royal pain in the ass for many many months or even years. But it's alot better than jail.
Here's the example the counselor guy gave the other night: Remember your favorite song from high school? Even after 20 years, if it comes on the radio, you immediately go into this mental space that's associated with the song. I even get a complete scene in my mind, complete with smells, sounds, and whatever state my head was in at the time. Same thing with booze and drugs, or any habit that causes you grief. No matter how long you've stayed out of trouble or how easily you think you can handle the temptation to overindulge and fall into a pattern, as soon as you get a buzz from the substance or the activity, you rewind to the old place automatically. It's just how we're wired. It's not a conscious decision to fail, or a moral weakness, or anything else. It happens in the blink of an eye.
That's why it's so important to start making new habits now, while you're being forced by big brother to abstain. Wanting to change isn't enough -- gotta put your feet to the pavement.
mrnoodle--are you quite sure it's not a moral weakness? So very many think it is. To be fair, though, I am an addict who has had the unique experience of knowing how bone-crushingly annoying addicts can be. I've wanted to chuck a few off the roof myself. And I AM one.
I like to compare addiction to homosexuality. Both have genetic components but are still rather mysterious. Headway is being made, slowly, but attitudes, esp. American attitudes, change even more slowly. The question for both addiction and homosexuality is this: Why would anyone CHOOSE this socially unacceptable and socially painful way of life were it NOT genetically pre-determined? (please don't tell me addicts choose to lose, either.)
The argument will be that homosexuals are what and who they are but addicts can CONTROL their use, etc. I'd like every person who holds that premise to be reincarnated as an addict. It can be done, but, aversion therapy is sometimes successful with gay people, too.
But, I digress: changing your way of thinking or coping is much more difficult than snapping your fingers or clicking your ruby slippers together or having 12 weeks of intensive inpatient. It's a lot like trying to grow another brain. V. tough.
Oh, gawd...
PPS--bbro, the problem...
bbro, you are involved with a selfish, selfish substance abuser. I won't admonish you anymore because: #1) you are 26 and in control of yourself and, #2) my brand of Tough Love is decidedly NOT appreciated, esp. by Those Who Really Care, i.e., Those Who Have Not Balked At Any
Behavior, EVER (and, good luck depending on that lot when the chips are down and the rent needs to be paid, but, whatever)
The moral component comes into play the first time you use/screw/steal. Naturally, you always have a choice, but if you never take the first step down the wrong road, you don't have to worry about the 1,000th step.
Once you've done it, though, a new set of rules comes into play. I'm a christian, so in my world, we're talking about sin, grace, repentance, stuff like that. To be "set free" from sin doesn't mean that you don't have the urge to do it anymore -- to the contrary, it becomes almost an obsession, at least until you finally accept the good things you're meant for, and turn away from the bad (not an instantaneous happening -- see below). If the thing you're doing has a physically addictive quality, you compound the problem.
Use heroin as an example. The first time someone uses heroin, they know it's a bad idea. They may think it's not "sinful" in their worldview. But it is at the very least dangerous and potentially earth-shattering to themselves and those around them. Knowing that and still choosing to use is the sin -- you put your own desires above everyone else's and did something you know was wrong. It doesn't matter why.
But after awhile, you repent. You turn your back on heroin and decide to live a positive life from this moment on. You swear before all that you believe is holy that you'll never do it again. Problem solved, right? I mean, you've made the correct moral decision.
Nope, your problem is just beginning. First of all, you sold yourself into slavery. You made a deal with the devil that in exchange for a high, you would take the consequences of that choice. The price of breaking free appears to be higher than the price of staying a slave. You aren't thinking of long term consequences anymore, you're thinking of how to get rid of the pain you're feeling right now. If you please your master, you won't get beat.
Second, you're battling yourself. The good nature inside of you (which I believe is God-given, and not our own will) has atrophied for so long that it only makes occasional, if well-meaning, appearances. You've allowed your self-destructiveness to reign for so long that it's the default mode. "Doing the right thing" is as genuinely impossible as learning a foreign language overnight.
So, is every instance of buying a bag, putting something in the spoon, heating it, injecting it, and passing out a separate act of defiance, immorality, or sin? Not to me. I think it's a state of being that has to be changed. First, you have to detox. That's the easy part.
But then, you have to learn that foreign language. You have to reacquaint yourself with what is good a little at a time, and start to work those atrophied muscles. Not much at first -- even getting the synapses to fire is a good start.
Here's where people's paths diverge. My faith teaches that you are always a slave -- if not to one master, than to another. And you can't serve both. Serving your own "fleshly" desires means you can't serve good, because you don't automatically want to do good -- it has to be a trained response. (This is a debate for the religion thread at this point, but if you doubt me, watch a 2-year old who gets his/her will thwarted for the first time, or examine that first, fleeting thought in your head when someone cuts you off in traffic -- that's the default, I think).
The secular answer is therapy, self-awareness, and things like that. I don't personally go in for that kind of thing, so I can't really speak to it. But either path you choose, you have to do the same thing: Find something positive to fill the void left by the bad behavior and become the new instinct.
I have a feeling I've talked in circles or lost my original point somewhere (chalk another post up to the long-term effects of weed?)
Well, I'm not a Christian...as far as AA goes that IS a problem (though they croutch their language otherwise they ARE a Christian organization--don't believe me? Come to a meeting in the heart of Ohio and we shall see who is ridiculed--Higher Power indeed!)
Plus, the whole 13th step process sickens me---i can't take it.
The moral component comes into play the first time you use/screw/steal. Naturally, you always have a choice, but if you never take the first step down the wrong road, you don't have to worry about the 1,000th step.
Just like the gay person who never sneaks a kiss. Right. THEY always have fucking choice, too, right?
what a load.
Whatever. The bottom line is that WE DON'T KNOW JACK about the genetic components of either addiction or homosexuality, and don't hold your breath because, as much as people might lie to themselves, they don't want to know. It's all completely chock full of political and emotional BULLSHIT. Everyone needs the ability to hold that bit of denial close to themselves at night to lull them to sleep, gay bashers need to feel that homos are just disgusting people making disgusting choices and gays need to feel that it's all out of their control and ingrained into who they are. If we had a definative answer for any of these questions it wouldn't change the minds of those affected one iota. Addiction less than homosexuality perhaps, but still the same idea in there.
Everything will depend on what political party is in power when the data comes in. If it's no genetic connection and we have a liberal, it'll become ghost science. If it's completely depedent on genetics and we have the conservatives? Same story.
Everyone lies - House M.D.
Just like the gay person who never sneaks a kiss. Right. THEY always have fucking choice, too, right?
what a load.
Why is it that you've gone from being the picked-upon, why-is-everyone-so-mean-to-me mode that I remember from before, to this caustic, nasty shit? You are always claiming to be able to read between everyone's lines, see their hidden agenda, accuse them of misleading everyone maliciously, read crap into their posts that arent' there. Just chill. This from the ... nevermind.
WTF does any of this have to do with gays again? Like, do they have a choice whether or not they feel gay, or do they have a choice whether or not they let someone put their reproductive organ in their bunghole? I'm gonna guess your oh-so-refined answer is something like, "no"?
I'm talking about addiction. You said it was like gays, I said it was like ... well, addiction.
Meh, I'm not reading these things before bed again.
Why is it that you've gone from being the picked-upon, why-is-everyone-so-mean-to-me mode that I remember from before, to this caustic, nasty shit?
It must be this place.
Anyway, it's a personal thing. I get tired of explaining.
Sorry to get your panties in a bundle there, noodle. I didn't realize I was being so nasty and caustic. FWIW I am very, very nervous and worried lately. I feel like I'm going to jump out of my skin. I need a break.
~snip~ One that says he wants to get out of this and start over. I think that is one of the reasons he wants to come down here with me so bad.
I don't know of anyone in jail (or in trouble) that doesn't want to get out of it and many think, with just one more chance, they can start over. The problem is that wanting it and doing the work required to make the changes are two very different things.
If he merely 'wants' to change, it won't be enough. He has to examine the
reasons he is addicted with brutal honesty. It will be painful. Then he has to rewrite the scripts that end in getting drunk/high with ones that end in alternative activities. This is the reason groups like AAA work for many people. People who get high often have low self-esteem and unacknowledged demons which drive them to hide in a drug or alcohol induced stupor.
And most of all, he'll have to do it on his own. You can't do it for him, or push him through it, or make him
want to not drink.
Oh, and he can't run from it. Moving away won't solve the problem. The reasons for his addictions are inside him and no matter where he goes, they will
still be there.
Stormie
I wonder if he is an alcoholic?
I've known guys that would get drunk every time they hung with drinkers, yet never drink at home or out with non-drinkers. It can be a social scene, trying to be one of the boys, fitting in and being accepted, sort of thing. For these lucky people it's a matter of changing environment.
Just wondering? :confused:
Alcoholics can sometimes have a lot of triggers. Not all of them can be avoided no matter where you flee.
After having been a drug user for many years and being married to an alcoholic for 18 (now separated) I have come to believe that I am "one of the lucky few" who can turn it on or off at will. Pot, coke, shrooms, meth and so on. I would do as I pleased when I pleased and then stop at the drop of a hat. This made it unbelievably difficult to comprehend that she couldn't do the same.
Off we went to counselor after counselor (lost track after 6 or 7) then AA meetings both she separately and many many together. At this point I feel very little empathy or sympathy for those who are still using or "trying" to stop. Until it is over and an entirely new pattern of behavior is established, they are still using or going to soon. My life and the lives of my children were ripped apart and destroyed by her and her fuckin drinking and drugging. NO sympathy here for any user - period. Get clean and I might try to cut you some slack. If I had it my way, AA and every other "how do you feel?" group would be eliminated and the money given to the victims of these people. Put their kids in school and get the children some counseling - screw the addict - it their problem and I believe they CHOSE it.
As far as your boyfriend and the "look in his eyes" That look is called desperation! He will say and do ANYTHING to get out of where he is and will screw, steal from, cheat and lie to anyone he can to do it. **Hint hint - his mom probably already knows this and that is the reason for her behavior.** I'm sorry to come down so hard on you, but I lived the life you are headed for firsthand and it TOTALLY SUCKS.
I am what Bri would call a savior - I tried to do everything and anything to help her out of her troubles and realized way too late that it was not only her life she was ruining, but also mine and her kids. I came riding in on my white horse trying to save the "poor damsel in distress" What a joke she just wanted someone to clean up every mess she created and support her habit. I have heard this story a hundred times and didn't realize I was living it til I got out and over my own addiction which I finally realized was. . .HER. My unsolicited advice - run, Bbro run like the freakin wind and never look back!
yesman, I think that you're the exception rather than the rule. I agree, there's too much "feeling" going on instead of action. But whatever chemical your brain produces that lets you put down a physically addictive substance without even looking back....damn. You need to bottle that stuff, you'd make a fortune.
My mom is the same as you. She can't even fathom why anyone would want to put anything in their body that makes them that sick. There would be no way to explain the need to her, because her brain doesn't work that way. You two are lucky.
For people on the other end of the spectrum, they can no more stop using than they can hold their breath for 30 minutes. If they try, the pressure just builds and builds until they can't take it anymore. I think there's evidence that it's physiological as much as psychological, but I don't have any idea where to get proof of it.
Knowing I have "done it all" and still was able to walk away when I chose to so do, makes me the rare exception to the rule. Of that, I am painfully aware - my issue is with those who believe they can and try to save, help or whatever those who are "the rule." I feel badly for these people and want to help them before they lose or waste years of their lives and endure unnecessary pain and damage. Here I go again - tryin to be the savior - see Bri - I can't help it.
You know what is really weird...as addicted I am to everything else (name something: I'm addicted to it) I am not addicted to cigarettes. I can smoke one and then never have another one again. I've been a 'social' smoker and now I don't even do that. WHY would I NOT become addicted to smokes? So. Weird.
Druggies can be fun in their own way too you know. I've never seen anything funnier than a guy on both shrooms and speed at the same time. He was running around our quad for at least 45 min before campus security finally caught him. He thought he was being attacked by ninja gnomes or something and kept screaming at them while pretending to be the Master Sergent. He even went so far as to throw a grenade (I can't imagine what he was seeing right then) and then jumped off a height divider into a pile of snow about 25 feet below him, rumor has it he broke 2 ribs. Absolutly hilarious. :lol2: