area flooding
People who live at Riverview Apartments wish they had less of a view of the river.
Road Closed
The little piece of road in the upper right is actually the bridge over the river.
The dude taking those other guys' names was the
Times-Herald photographer, and I thought, hell, I'm doin' what he's doin', except my "readers" will see the pics a lot sharper. Even through my dirty truck windshield.
It's good to see the sun shining.
Although you know, despite those Riverview apartments, when I drive around I can see that people have avoided the flood plains for building homes, for the most part.
And every season, there are a dozen idiots who will tell themselves, "Bah, my big SUV can handle this!" and drive right around the Road Closed signs. Then when their cars float away we all laugh and point.
Here in KC, we laugh and point at their funerals, too. People never learn.
Pete came home early because crossing the Susquehanna may be a problem pretty soon. This photo is from
here. This is Front Street in Binghamton.
All my pics are Schuylkill.
It is amazing how widespread the flooding is, not being a hurricane or anything.
edit this event needs a name
edit2 I think that picture is the Chenango just before it hits the Susquehanna. cnn has some nice video of the event up search on Binghamton unless you know how to use this cnnPlayVideo('/video/us/2006/06/28/chernoff.new.york.flooding.cnn','/us');
Road Closed
The little piece of road in the upper right is actually the bridge over the river.
By the way, guess who was the LP Township fire police who closed Pawlings Road there...our own SusanC. I just got off the phone with her. :-)
_
This is Rt 170 near Aldenville PA. The Lackawaxen River. Normally just a little stream you can wade across.
Last night I got very little sleep because my county pager was going off like every 15 minutes with the latest update, warning, or disaster declaration.
Today, I had to deal with my ambulance taking 2 hours to complete what would normally be a 40 minute round trip. The trips are, I suppose, still round, because it seems like they're having to take the great circle route to get anywhere.
That's a geography joke. There are not a lot of them.
*groan*
They had to evacuate Lourdes Hospital in Binghamton yesterday. They got everybody out in 2 hours.
Although you know, despite those Riverview apartments, when I drive around I can see that people have avoided the flood plains for building homes, for the most part.
well, Riverview is an anomaly...built very recently to fleece the yuppie puppies on an old factory site. The same developer is building similar on the river in Bridgeport, and near City Line. I think he may have just realized all his properties share a unique vulnerability. These disused manufacturing properties were all sited to leverage the Schulkyll Canal...Pottstown, Phoenixville, Norristown/Bridgeport, Conshohocken and Manayunk.
Makes you wonder why people choose to live in areas so prone to flooding and disaster. :3eye:
Pete came home early because crossing the Susquehanna may be a problem pretty soon. This photo is from here. This is Front Street in Binghamton.
I was in Tunkhannock(sp) when the remnants of Ivan went through - it wasn't quite this bad, but the susquehanna was lapping at bottom of the rt 309 bridge.
Makes you wonder why people choose to live in areas so prone to flooding and disaster.
Because they have more money than sense. There's nothing there at Riverview that a yuppie puppy in a SUV can't handle without even pulling the cellphone out of his ear. Note that UT said most housing around here is built outside the floodplain.
New Hope is now flooded probably not quite as bad as it was in 1956. The bridge is still intact. We dealt with it then and we're dealing with it now.
Because they have more money than sense.
You either killed my remark or compounded it. I'm not sure which, yet.
New Hope is now flooded probably not quite as bad as it was in 1956. The bridge is still intact. We dealt with it then and we're dealing with it now.
I've heard the area has been through a lot worse in the past. Are there any buildings with flood history markers on them?
To be fair, my shots were taken well before crest. I should go back today, if I can, to see how they did. The graph for the river at Pottstown says it went up another four feet.
I've heard the area has been through a lot worse in the past. Are there any buildings with flood history markers on them?
I lived in New Hope in '56 when Diane flooded the place out. (Of course I was four years old at the time.) My dad had a photo of a motorboat moored to a parking meter downtown. I remeber riding with him to go pick up the mail at the post office and turning around when we found out the post office was unreachable.
Right now the Inky was calling for a crest at New Hope at 6.5 feet above flood...it hit seven feet above there in 2005.
As for killing/compounding, that would depend on what you intended. Most housing that's been around a while (mine was built in 1920) is clear of typical 100-year floodplains. There's been some recent opportunistic development like Riverview that made some quick bucks without apparently worrying too much about flooding, I suspect partly because the Feds will indemnify the foolish by insuring flood risks nobody in the private sector wants to touch. And theres some recreational properties locally (Port Indian comes to mind) that are right on the river edge, and they probably got hurt some...but they get flooded pretty often; that's almost routine.
SusanC told me last night that there was at least one rooftop rescue locally (She's in Lower Providence, a municipality adjacent to West Norriton, which is where I live) and several other go-in-with-a-boat-and-pick-em-up deals.
I've heard the area has been through a lot worse in the past. Are there any buildings with flood history markers on them?
Check out the high water mark on
this building...
Rumor has it that Rendell sent PA Guard copters up to Conklin NY (low lying border town) to rescue a bunch of folks. Nice gesture. Of course with Pataki running for President it may be a political coup as well.
Rumor has it that Rendell sent PA Guard copters up to Conklin NY (low lying border town) to rescue a bunch of folks. Nice gesture. Of course with Pataki running for President it may be a political coup as well.
He's also probably trying to remind everyone that he beleves the PA Air National Guard belongs to him, so he can try to keep JRB Willow Grove open.
Nice new swimming and kayaking facility they've built, there. Concession stand probably should be set back a little further from the course, though.
Ty Cobb Stadium. Artificial surface because it is so close to the river. Lets see what it looks like in a week.
I learned today that Knoebels Amusment Park in Elysburg, PA
is flooded.
Water parks are cool too. :lol:
It would appear that some God's creatures don't mind.;)
I drove back through Riverview and it was fine. Turns out the ground floor of all those apartments is all garages. So they figured on this.
That was a smart move, I wonder if the Township required it or they were thinking ahead? :confused:
The ducks and geese were swimming merrily around but what about the other critters?
Thinking ahead about flood plains - in many areas building is not allowed unless the structures can survive flooding without too much damage. I bought a house that had been severely flooded after Hurricane Agnes in 1972. The Redevelopment Authority required that during the renovation all electrical boxes, furnaces, etc., had to be located above the 100 year flood level. New buildings were built with garages on the first floors just as in the Riverview Apts., I think in part because they could not get flood insurance unless they did so. I have stayed in a new Hyatt Hotel in Covington KY which has the lobby on the second floor, and 2 sets of elevators. You take one from the ground floor to the lobby and a second one from the lobby to the floors above. Inconvenient to do with luggage, but flood proof.
Is that a groundhog?
Yes. :(
...2 sets of elevators. You take one from the ground floor to the lobby and a second one from the lobby to the floors above. Inconvenient to do with luggage, but flood proof.
I don't get it. Can't the water come up one elevator shaft, spread across the lobby floor, then go up the other elevator shaft?
Can't the water come up one elevator shaft, spread across the lobby floor, then go up the other elevator shaft?
Only if it can press the buttons.
True. The lobby is on the second floor because it is well above the 100 year flood level. The elevators to upper floors, and, more importantly, the wiring and mechanisms that run them, are also above that level. The elevators from the ground floor to the lobby have separate wiring, etc.
I Forgot to mention that Covington is on the Ohio River whch can have some fierce floods. The Ky side of the river is mostly flood plain. Newport, east of Covington but still on the Ohio River, has large, impressive levees to protect it.
Levees, by the way, are a temporary solution. While they keep the river out of the flood plain, the river tends to build up silt deposits on its bed instead of depositing the silt on the flood plain where it used to pre-levee. Gradually the river bed gets higher so that the levees are less effective. Hence, dredging is needed to remove the silt from the river bed. When we mess around with the forces of nature, we have to be really careful...
I drove back through Riverview and it was fine. Turns out the ground floor of all those apartments is all garages. So they figured on this.
My guess is they fired the architect who planned on second floor garages.;)
For those attempting to understand 'whats and whys', below is the weekly rain map in inches. Left side is Ohio. Right side is Atlantic Ocean off of New Jersey. Upper right corner is New England including Maine. Viewing this picture separately in a 'picture viewer' that can zoom will make three letter city codes visible. New York City is LGA.
Mustard yellow are areas with rain above 8 inches (20 cm). It includes (south to north) Washington DC (lowest), Baltimore MD (BWI), Reading PA (RDG), and Wilkes Barre PA (AVP) (topmost). Five pockets of orange inside that mustard yellow are > 12 inches. For example, one orange pocket is Reading PA (RDG). Binghamton NY (BGM) (dead center in map) is not even in a mustard yellow area. And yet even that rain was too much for Binghamton. Lowest orange spot is in MD (Maryland) adjacent to southwest corner of DE (Delaware) and just below the words "IN INCHES". Largest orange is the upper Chesapeake Bay and bottom of the Susquehanna River in a mostly rural region of MD and PA (that might include Elkton MD).
Most rain was scattered across numerous river basins or dumped in the the upper Cheasapeake Bay. Those river basins are Susquehanna (Binghamton NY and Wilkes Barre PA), Schuykill River (Reading PA to Philadelphia), and Delaware River (entire NJ/PA border and includes Lackawaxen River). Lackawaxen is unique since its entire flow is controlled by a dam that created Lake Wallenpaupak. I watched. They were flowing water through that Wallenpaupak electric generating station all day. More may have been released previously via emergency release chutes in April 2005 (an unannounced manmade flood) that created serious Upper Delaware River damage.
Pictures provided by UT are along Schuykill River that passes from Reading PA in an ESE direction towards Philadelphia (PHL) where rainfall was less than 8 inches (dark green and light green). Generally, anyone flooded by this rain should not be living in that too low area. This was not the Big One; only an unusually large rainfall and not unusually large for areas such as Binghamton NY.
For residents in Yardley PA on the Delaware River, this is the third flood in what - five years? Begs why are they living there. Delaware River received very little rainfall compared to a Big One.
Furthermore, large rainfall areas were distributed among many different river basins. Had that large yellow mustard area moved either west or east, then the Susquehanna or Schuykill River basins would have actually suffered flooding.
The Schuykill River at Philly is draining 1,890 sq/mi.
The Delaware River at Trenton is draining 6,780 sq/mi.
The Susquehanna River at Conowingo is draining 27,100 sq/mi. :eek:
Binghamton NY (BGM) (dead center in map) is not even in a mustard yellow area. And yet even that rain was too much for Binghamton.
Please note the mustard yellow North of Binghamton. Chenango Point in Binghamton is where the Chenango joins the Susquehanna. Parts of Binghamton are low lying and never should have been built on but this storm was not "usual" if you look at the rainfall in the drainage area that is collected and goes through Bing.
Please note the mustard yellow North of Binghamton. Chenango Point in Binghamton is where the Chenango joins the Susquehanna. Parts of Binghamton are low lying and never should have been built on but this storm was not "usual" if you look at the rainfall in the drainage area that is collected and goes through Bing.
But look at all the other areas that drain through Binghamton that were not yellow. The Johnstown PA (1985?) flood was unique because almost the entire upriver drainage area got 10+ inches of rain within only hours; and all had to drain through Johnstown. Had that been same for Binghamtown, well, then flooding should be expected. This was not a Big One. This on two rivers where most of the drainage area did not suffer 'yellow' rainfall - and still the river basin in Binghamton was too narrow.
To be a significant flood, most of both rivers above Binghamton should have been yellow rainfall. Notice that Wilke Barre and Sunbury both on the same river had less serious (near zero) problems. Wilkes Barre had mostly dark green rainfall upstream AND the flooding from Binghamton. Wilkes Barre took precautions that were mostly unnecessary.
Of course maybe the press suddenly realized after Binghamton that the flooding was really not that serious - was being overhyped. But what we have is a benchmark. Any home flooded by this lesser event should be 'corrected'. That usually means moved. Homes are the one structure that must survive catastrophic events. Businesses, rec fields, parking garages, etc are all sacrificial.
Homes should never be built where flooding will occur. Homes are the one structure we all need intact especially after such events.
The ground in upstate NY was already saturated before the week's rains began. I wasn't sure why you didn't want this flood to be serious, but being that it was the most serious flood in Binghamton since 1935, I suppose it must be your political agenda. You criticize the press for hyping an existing flood while pimping your future scenario in hopes of increasing Federal intervention related to climate. Please remember when you win your interventions, it will be folks with other agendas implementing them.
note: I acknowlege that Federal taxpayers spent huge sums of money to ugrade WBs flood walls recently and they did their job.
Scroll down the page....lots of steamy weather, tornados too....
http://wwwa.accuweather.com/adcbin/public/community_blog.asp...lots of steamy weather, tornados too....
O. M. G. it is soooo freakin' hot and humid here in the Miami Valley that you can't even go outside unless you are right next to the pool. It's misreable! This weather forces a person indoors. It's just too hot. :greenface
I wasn't sure why you didn't want this flood to be serious, but being that it was the most serious flood in Binghamton since 1935, I suppose it must be your political agenda.
Worse flood than 1972 Agnes? So what changed? Was it really a big flood? Was it created by man (for example in NY that may not install flood control on all new construction)? Or was it really nothing more than the local gossip hyping a story? If the flood in Binghamton was so bad, then why was it a non-event just downriver in Wilkes Barre - that does flood planning since 1972?
I see nothing that justifies all this hype. So I took an all day bike ride up towards Reading - downriver of that big orange spot. Nothing. No serious flooding. Just the usual flood plain soil replenishment and dirt where roads were too low.
If Binghamton had serious flooding, then Binghamton has serious planning and code enforcement problems in and upriver of Binghamton. Sounds like a manmade problem to me.
To repeat a primary point: where problems existed, then the town / region must fix their problems. This was not a Big One. And what I 'want' is not even stated or implied. It was only a serious flood where man has failed to act responsible - and will be worse later if what 'was only a warning' is not heeded. It was not a major news story as we all saw in national news. But then things close to NYC too often get more hype.
Every flooded home is by definition a man-made problem. The heaviest rains from Agnes fell mostly South of Binghamton hence the new flood wall construction in WB. I can't find information on river levels to compare. I'm really thrown by the relatively modest amount of measured rain compared to the change in river level, but I think our ground water levels are up since the rain has eased but the river is still quite high.
We do have a strip mall problem East (down stream)of Bing along the river which must have eaten up wetland. Binghamton itself was a land granted swamp originally. I wonder if certain areas are sinking? Broome County NY (Bing), has heavy code enforcement whereas Chenango County NY, has little. What I don't get is new construction in flood prone areas. When I was surveying we did flood elevations for folks looking to qualify for morgages. No elevation = no morgage. However, since they have built highways and malls along the river since the flood of '35 we may have our answer as to how this became a so-called century event, they've altered the flood plain. If this is the case it really isn't Binghamton's fault, since there is rarely new construction in Binghamton proper (shrinking population). We need to look at upstream construction like Conklin.
Any idea where we can find historical river level data on-line?
The Delaware River went down and now the hard part. Harmony, NJ started washing down the buildings with fire hoses today. The water was up to the red arrow in the second picture. :(
Deposit, NY on the 28th. :(
the good news is that i am personally responsible for interviewing any folks wanting to move to flood free phoenix due to recent events. all cellarites will receive priority clearance.
I saw a show about floods once, and they said just imagine how heavy one bucket of water is. Imagine thousands of them pushing you along in a raging flood. The power of nature.
We had a flood
here in '94. Nothing of this magnitude IRC.
More rains comin'.
However, by Friday or Saturday, several computer models are indicating the possibility that the center will move back over the water east of Florida or Georgia, and a tropical cyclone will develop. Any storm that does develop is likely to get whisked quickly northwards or northeastwards by a strong trough of low pressure expected to move off the East Coast this weekend. People planning on spending the weekend on the Outer Banks of North Carolina should keep a careful eye on this system--the situtation is very similar to what we had at the end of June, when we almost had Tropical Storm Beryl hitting eastern North Carolina.
Groovy, Broome County only lost 800 homes in the last one...
the good news is that i am personally responsible for interviewing any folks wanting to move to flood free phoenix due to recent events.
Naw. You guys just get fires...:flamer:
easily solved by keeping ridiculous amounts of vegetation away from your property.
Any idea where we can find historical river level data on-line?
Found flood stage charts for upriver. The triangles are what are average water flows. After what appears to be a large 1st of June rain, the rivers were just slightly above average - suggesting no ground water saturation at least one week before. Another source (that I cannot find) reports average cubic feet per second for Jun to be about 1300 for Jun which puts water before the rains at average.
Again, the point is that this flooding should not have been as bad as the news wanted it to be. And where flooding was a problem, those areas better get cracking at opening up the flood plain - moving people like Clinton did for Grafton IL.
the good news is that i am personally responsible for interviewing any folks wanting to move to flood free phoenix due to recent events. all cellarites will receive priority clearance.
You still have over 100 degree days, right?
I'll take my chances with the water.
but it's a dry heat...
i played 90 minutes of soccer outside tonight. i couldn't do that in illinois humidity when it was 90.
A "dry heat", a light heat, a dark heat...
I was on the phone with tech support once, the lady was based in Phoenix, and I complained that it was freakin' 90 plus degrees outside (the gates of hell for my Seattle body thermostat). She chuckled and said "Honey, it hasn't been under 100 degrees for 30 DAYS". I quit complaining and crossed Arizona off my lifetime must-see list. No thanks.
Found flood stage charts for upriver. The triangles are what are average water flows. After what appears to be a large 1st of June rain, the rivers were just slightly above average - suggesting no ground water saturation at least one week before. Another source (that I cannot find) reports average cubic feet per second for Jun to be about 1300 for Jun which puts water before the rains at average.
Again, the point is that this flooding should not have been as bad as the news wanted it to be. And where flooding was a problem, those areas better get cracking at opening up the flood plain - moving people like Clinton did for Grafton IL.
Bruce sent me a bunch of these charts, very interesting stuff. What I was thinking of though would be water levels from 1935 and 1972 but I'm guessing the record is fragmented.
Water resources
New York State....hover over the dots (all colors) to find out where it is.
For the
Chenango River at Greene, this station has only stream height (water level) but check the "Available data for this site" menu for historical data and other information.
For the
Susquehanna River at Conklin, there is stream height and discharge as well as "Available Data" menu.
Don't forget the Susquehanna starts in NY state, swings through northeast PA, back into NY, then south the full height of PA into MD. So, you'll have to check the
PA map also to see where the bulk of the water entered the Susquehanna before in got to Binghamton.
The Chenango dumps into the Susquehanna in Binghamton so the NY map would show some of the large feeder streams of the Chenango.
Have fun. :D
[whine]but I have work to do[/whine]
That's why I would never give you an order...only opportunity.:lol:
O. M. G. it is soooo freakin' hot and humid here in the Miami Valley that you can't even go outside unless you are right next to the pool. It's misreable! This weather forces a person indoors. It's just too hot. :greenface
You ain't lyin', here inland it is nasty with no sea breeze.:(
This mornings paper has the so-called flood plains mapped. People are asking the right questions, a new map is needed. An example is Lourdes Hospital which was supposed to be on the high end of the 500 year flood plain and was inundated. Lots of homes on morgages were above the known flood plain and were not required to have flood insurance. Bottom line, everyone was working with bad information.
All I can say for sure is that the elevation listed on Google for my house is between 180 and 190 feet above sea level. The bottom of my street is about 160 feet. There is almost 0 percent chance of any amount of standing water flooding my house.
There is, however, an issue with runoff and drainage. When they built my development, they were pretty careful with landscaping design. Unfortunately, they began building above me and I got a lesson in design when they didn't put up a silt fence before they started and a severe rain took off the few inches of the already thin topsoil off of the hill in my backyard.
The runoff is designed to run away from my house and in the alley between my house and my neighbors to the street. The winter before last, due to a design flaw, it pooled near my back steps and caused problems. The builder had to excavate and redesign the terrain to build up the embankment between the alley and my house.
That being said, everything is good now and I sit well above sea level, away or above any creeks which can flood, tucked in a slight valley to discourage tornadoes and hurricanes, and in one of the more geographically dead states on the east coast.
Except for the fact that I am not too far from chemical plants, I have a pretty safe environment. The biggest disaster I have to worry about is my homeowners association.
The biggest disaster I have to worry about is my homeowners association.
Did you have to get approval for your red,white & blue mailbox?
About 6 months after I bought my house the Army Corps of Engineers decided I'm on a 100 year flood plain. :smack:
This thread is kind of old news now, but I'm going to add to it anyway. I've been away for two weeks or so on vacation, and just recently was able to organize some of my pictures. I went to NE Pennsylvania, not so far from Scranton, where my family has a cottage on a lake.
This first group of pictures was taken by my Dad on I-81 at Great Bend, PA. This was during the height of the flooding. They temporarily closed the highway so a Coast Guard rescue helicopter could use it for landings while doing rescue work. He was lucky enough to be just a few cars back from the action.
http://static.flickr.com/68/193044067_8bee54a79a_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/47/193044068_0ac8457bd3_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/57/193044069_4e039237ba_b.jpg
This is the lake where we have a cottage. It was about 4 feet higher than normal, which is pretty impressive considering how small the valley is that drains into it.
http://static.flickr.com/58/193046741_42b0cba3a4.jpg
These two bridges are (were) in Creamton, PA, a small "village" near Honesdale PA. It's really just a handful of houses at a crossroads. This is the East Branch of the Lackawaxen river. It's really just a stream. You can normally walk across it from rock to rock without getting your feet wet.
Here's the first bridge:
http://static.flickr.com/49/193044063_71bee7dc82_b.jpg
This second bridge almost had a fatality. The man who was driving this pickup was able to get out of his truck before it got pinned under the guardrail and pole. He was found downstream with most of his clothes torn off, and it took half a dozen people to pull him out, he was so tangled up in debris. His obesity didn't help either. He was very bruised, but otherwise OK.
http://static.flickr.com/78/193044064_c86f217e09_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/59/193044066_420dfe3f63_b.jpg
Good photos. I surveyed a parcel across from Smokin' Joes a few years ago. I don't remember doing any flood elevations but they probably already existed.
It's interesting to see a Coast Guard helicopter working in the Appalachian Mountains.
While on the job yesterday( i work for an electric utility company), I drove through The "Island" section in Trenton, NJ. It is kind of eerie to see the Fema folks all set up and the piles of now useless washer/dryer/hot waterheaters amassed at the curbs........I really need to start carrying my camera.
On a side note, very interesting pics Glatt. Thanks for sharing!
It's interesting to see a Coast Guard helicopter working in the Appalachian Mountains.
We prefer
Endless Mountains. ;)
