It's the economy ...

Mr Bush said Japan's Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi had discussed "the devaluation issue" while outlining his plans to revive Japan's economy. What he had meant to say was that they had discussed "the deflation issue".

Mr Bush's aides rushed to clear up the confusion. The president had "misspoken", they said. But the damage had already been done. The yen slumped by half a yen against the dollar.


... devaluation/deflation what's the difference? ... no big prob ... I hear the dollar went up, didn't it? ... while I'm here, can we see where we dropped the nukular bombs?

and speaking of dollar ...

www.bushisms.com :rolleyes:

I was chatting with my is lecturer today about using currancy value as a weapon, this really is a good demonstration of that - even if it was an accident.

I don't know from dried fruit, but you are right about fiat coinage. ;)

And the value of half a yen?

About 0.4 cents. The story is a media creation.

The media didn't create the gaffe. The media just reports what he says. Sometimes his poorly chosen words aren't worth 2 cents. Other times, like the often used "crusade" word, and that "axis of evil" phrase, it is a costly choice of words.

Make no mistake about it ... Bush always means what he says, even if he doesn't always say what he means.

when you deal wiht hundreds of billions .4 cents makes a signifigant difference.

There are about 133 yen to the dollar. If it dropped a half yen to the dollar that would constitute a .37% change, a tiny amount. This was a non-event. Simply by being not news, reporting it makes it a media creation.

Don't you think it is informative that the President would use the term devaluation when the discussion was actually about deflation?

The news isn't the currency market response ... the news is that W doesn't have a clue about the economy. OK, you're right. And that's not news, either. :)

Yeah. I think it shows that he's human and he, too, flubs what he's saying sometimes. Try being the fucking President, where everyone is making a news story about <b>everything</b> you say, and not occasionally slipping. Jesus Christ.

When I consider the amazing things that spew from your Mr. Chr&eacute;tien's mouth on an almost daily basis, I stand astonished that you manage to find the time to worry about our president.

Hey, this isn't a "my Prime Minister is better than your President thing."

It's just a bit more cosequential for our world what your President says. He is, after all, the leader of the free world. If you're not with US you're against US and all that.

The stuff Canadian leaders say is often just as stupid or even stupider (sic) and, if anyone cares, I could post a few gaffes about our clowns in the Toronto thread ... especially Mayor Mel.

When it comes to American politicians, I'm non-partisan, which is even more objective than bi-partisan.

When it comes to Canadian politicians ... well, don't get me going on them!

Hey, this isn't a "my Prime Minister is better than your President thing."

Of course it isn't. I was simply pointing out that, as a rich, juicy source of malapropisms, Chr&eacute;tien has Bush beat, hands down.

The stuff Canadian leaders say is often just as stupid or even stupider (sic) and, if anyone cares, I could post a few gaffes about our clowns in the Toronto thread...

Well... why don't you? And post 'em here in Current Events, where they belong.

Originally posted by dhamsaic
Yeah. I think it shows that he's human and he, too, flubs what he's saying sometimes

The reason why people even bothered mentioning this latest 'Bushism' is because some suspected it wasn't entirely coincidental.

"The president had insisted he would not comment on the yen, saying repeatedly before his Asia trip that the market must determine currency values."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,7369,652327,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1825000/1825593.stm

Even if it was, people have an issue with him because such a 'human error' can cost people's livelihoods (at best) or lives (at worst). Being a moron is alright, we all make mistakes. People just usually try not to elect a moron as president; if he screws up, bad things happen.

<center>
<IMG SRC="http://www.gwbush.com/store/images/littlestickers/71percent/a-limits.gif">
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X.

Sigh.

There should be limits to freedom. It <b>should</b> be illegal for me to kill you, and it is.

I don't see how someone's livelihood (at best) was ruined here. Please explain that.

PM: Only U.S. can end our recession

Being 'very much dependent' limits economic options

Robert Fife, Ottawa Bureau Chief

National Post: December 22, 2001

Grant Halverson, The Associated Press

JEAN CHRETIEN, THE PRIME MINISTER: "To have control of our currency is a great advantage to us."

OTTAWA - In an unusual admission of powerlessness, Jean Chrétien said yesterday that Canada has become so economically dependent on the United States that it must rely on the Americans to lift our economy out of recession.

The Prime Minister said the Liberal government did what it could to stimulate the lagging economy in the Dec. 10 budget through $12-billion of new spending, but he said money alone is not enough to reverse the recession.

Canada must rely on the economic management of George W. Bush, the U.S. President, to revive the North American and even the global economy, he said.

Which brings me back to the point of this thread ... devaluation or deflation, that is the question.

Originally posted by dhamsaic
Sigh.

There should be limits to freedom. It <b>should</b> be illegal for me to kill you, and it is.

I don't see how someone's livelihood (at best) was ruined here. Please explain that.

Sure, no problem: let's say I'm a money trader, working on the stock exchange or for some other brokerage firm. In fact, in real life I briefly contemplated doing that.

I do my homework. Bush is coming to visit. He says in advance he's not going to comment on the currently very weakened Japanese economy. Excellent. I suspect that he will sign trade agreements and utter pleasant yet meaningless noises about more Sino-American cooperation, which in turn will strengthen the Japanese economy, and potentially the currency as well. I buy $5million in Yen, ready to short sell at the end of the day.

Bush turns up. Bush comments on the forthcoming 'devaluation'. The Yen drops. My brokerage firm is stuck with short term losses, and I get fired, my place snapped up by one of the thousands of brokers the economy produces every month.

It's that simple: people's livelihoods can depend on reading politics; if someonebody makes a 'boo boo', they can get fired. I don't feel particularly *sorry* for brokers and traders, as their job isn't exactly the most productive in the world, but some of them certainly lost their jobs over that. It's a cutthroat business, but it wasn't their fault.

About how someone's stupidity can kill people: let's assume there was academic research going on right now that could save many people's lives. Let's say the administration restricted and stopped that research, for reasons either unexplained or vaguely hinted at. Or let's say the administration prohibited academic discussion of the research, locking it away?
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/17/politics/17SECR.html

About the limits of freedom: George W. Bush made that comment regarding a GW Bush parody website. He filed a legal complaint against a website, using the above citation.
Source: http://www.gwbush.com/pressdallasnews.htm
http://www.rtmark.com/more/limits_to_freedom.mp3

Still care to employ hyperbole and talk about killing people?

X.

Devaluation? Did I say devaluation? I meant deflation.

Axis of Evil? Did I say that? I meant Excess of Evil.

Where can you get a good pretzel in Asia?

Argentina pleads its case with Bush administration

(01/29/2002) (Agencies)

Hoping to win back IMF financing, Argentina's foreign minister met with US officials on Monday to explain the severity of the country's social and economic crisis and to ask for US support.

In the first high-level meeting between the new Peronist government and the Bush administration, Argentine Foreign Minister Carlos Ruckauf met with White House national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and US Trade Representative Robert Zoellick.

Ruckauf gave them the raw facts of an insolvent country where Eduardo Duhalde, the country's fifth president in just over a month, inherited mass protests and a state that cannot pay its debts. The currency has been devalued by 30 percent in the past month.

On Monday, thousands of Argentines marched against the government in Buenos Aires to demand jobs. While protests now are less violent than in December, when 27 people were killed, 20 people were injured in Monday's demonstrations.

"I bring President Bush a letter from President Duhalde describing the economic and political reality of our country," Ruckauf told reporters.

If you want to get the President's attention on economic issues ... meet with his National Security Advisor, Condoleezza Rice.

GW Bush:

"My trip to Asia begins here in Japan for an important reason. It begins here because for a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific."

Of course Bush Sr. was shot down over the Pacific himself, AFAIK. And there were 'minor' issues prior to WW2 as well, not that we want to dwell on genocide and mass rape, mind you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1825000/video/_1828526_presser01_bush_vi.ram

What's better, of course, is that the White House published a transcript of that speech, with 'a century and a' omitted. Let's keep the public as disinformed as possible?

I am sure he mis-spoke, of course. He's just human, after all.

X.

.........................................................................................................
.........................................................................................................
...................................................................................................................................words fail me.

My god.

Look, I think that it's far more likely that President Bush flubbed his lines (as we know he's prone to do). Do you really think he's forgotten about World War II? He said "century and a half" - maybe me meant "half a century"? It's not like he said "since 1850" or "for the last one hundred fifty years." Maybe it was edited because they were aware that Bush fucked it up and then wanted it to be factually correct?

There are some things that I won't make excuses for. "Youthful indiscretions" and the like. But the fact of the matter is, it's <b>well known</b> that Bush has a tendency to flub speeches that have been written for him. He does pretty alright on his own, but when he's trying to remember these words perfectly (and is under enormous pressure to do so, knowing that idiots on message boards across the world will pick apart every misspoken word he utters), he makes mistakes and flubs lines. He's a human being. President or not, he's still prone to error. Stop making a big deal about the little things.

Hey Dham,

thanks for your response.

> Look, I think that it's far more likely that President Bush flubbed
> his lines (as we know he's prone to do). Do you really think
> he's forgotten about World War II? He said "century and a
> half" - maybe me meant "half a century"? It's not like he
> said "since 1850" or "for the last one hundred fifty years."

You are completely right. I don't think anyone is disputing that. The reason why so many people are appalled by his verbal errors is because politics is a business in which you can't allow such flubs - it's that simple. I recommend 'The Bush Dyslexicon', as an illustration of the underlying issues regarding Bush's struggle with the English language.

As an aside: personally I don't think that Bush is a complete moron, just based on his verbal gaffes.

> Maybe it was edited because they were aware that Bush
> fucked it up and then wanted it to be factually correct?

Sure, that's the reason. It's also a falsification of a public record. If you're the White House office, and you release a transcript of a speech the President gave, don't you think you ought to release the actual text he spoke? This sanitization of the truth is - to me - absolutely baffling, and the actual reason why I posted the above. His error is excusable, falsifying public records isn't. To use hyperbole, what if a given government politician made a speech in which he accidentally misspoke and blamed Jews for the ills of the world, only for the 'official' record of that speech to be 'corrected'?

> it's <b>well known</b> that Bush has a tendency to flub
> speeches that have been written for him.

That might be the reason why he is ridiculed so often. A lot of people are uncomfortable having a man in charge who is unable to read some text straight off the paper. Not being American, this doesn't affect me personally, of course; I just find it interesting from a 'political science' point of view.

X.

I think the problem with flubbing lines (at least for me, because I do indeed occasionally misspeak when I'm reading something aloud) is that my mouth can only speak so fast and my brain gets ahead of it. When that happens, you're not thinking about what you're saying that instant - you're thinking about what you're going to say in a couple seconds. Just the same as not being able to spell is not a great indication of intelligence, trouble speaking isn't either.

I agree that the editing of the transcript is curious, unless a note was made of it. When I first read it, I probably misunderstood - I thought it was a transcript of what he was <b>supposed</b> to say, not what he did. My mistake.

My apologies also for misunderstanding your intent with your post - your ending can read as though it's sarcastic and I thought you were ragging on him for his verbal slip-up.

As seen in the Austin Chronicle:
"Haiku of the week:
Dubya in Japan,
English language he deflates,
but not devalues."
heheh

Originally posted by Xugumad

Sure, that's the reason. It's also a falsification of a public record. If you're the White House office, and you release a transcript of a speech the President gave, don't you think you ought to release the actual text he spoke? This sanitization of the truth is - to me - absolutely baffling, and the actual reason why I posted the above. His error is excusable, falsifying public records isn't. To use hyperbole, what if a given government politician made a speech in which he accidentally misspoke and blamed Jews for the ills of the world, only for the 'official' record of that speech to be 'corrected'?

IIRC, standard procedure is that the "transcript", in the case of a prepared speech, is produced and released to the media just _before_ the speech is made.

(edit is that I added the last 'and')

At least he didn't barf on anybody.