Cure found for cancer?
Of course even if it is true, it will never be made available.
Scientists & medical conglomerates make no jack off of cures, only discoveries that allow us to "live with it" sucking off of the tit of the pharmaceutical companies & corporate death factories like the Mayo Clinic that only takes terminal cases or sure things that could further their false reputation.
The Hypocritcal oath taken by Dr.s daily should be abolished... it is a waste of time.
http://www.wesh.com/health/9178673/detail.html
[CENTER][SIZE="4"]Researchers Say They Can Cure Cancer In Mice[/SIZE][/CENTER]
POSTED: 4:41 pm EDT May 8, 2006
UPDATED: 9:46 pm EDT May 8, 2006
WINSTON-SALEM, N.C. -- Monday night brought stunning news about the battle against cancer.
Researchers at Wake Forest University School of Medicine said they have found a cure for cancer -- in mice, that is.
However, they are hoping that what they have learned will someday be applied to human treatments.
Three years ago, Wake Forest researchers discovered a mouse that could not get cancer no matter how hard they tried to give it the disease.
Now, they said white blood cells from that mouse's descendants were injected into ordinary mice with cancer and their disease was completely wiped out.
The treatment worked with a variety of cancers, including those similar to end-stage human cancers.
“This is a really remarkable recovery from a very aggressive tumor,” Wake Forest cancer researcher Dr. Zheng Cui said.
The mice did not suffer any side effects from the treatment. They had no problems with rejection.
The goal now is to find a human treatment that could avoid the rejection problem by using a patient's own cells.
White cells from a cancer patient would be combined in a test tube with the specific anti-cancer gene and then given back to the same patient.
“The hope would be that those activated white blood cells would be able to treat that person's cancer successfully,” Wake Forest Pathologist Dr. Mark Willingham said.
In mice, the white blood cells were able to find the cancers no matter where they were located in the body, suggesting that the cancer cells produce some kind of signal that the killer cells can detect.
The treatment also worked with naturally occurring cancers.
Next steps include trying to determine exactly how the cancer-fighting mechanism works, and Wake Forest researchers are working on a specific test that can indicate cancer resistance in humans.
A cure is still a long way off, but they believe that, like mice, there are humans out there with genes to fight cancer.
For example, out of all people who smoke, only a small percentage get cancer. What keeps them safe is still unknown.
Copyright 2006 by WESH.COM. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Of course even if it is true, it will never be made available.
Scientists & medical conglomerates make no jack off of cures, only discoveries that allow us to "live with it" sucking off of the tit of the pharmaceutical companies & corporate death factories like the Mayo Clinic that only takes terminal cases or sure things that could further their false reputation.
Cancer would be the exception. There would be no better PR in the world than to be the company that cured cancer.
For example, out of all people who smoke, only a small percentage get cancer. What keeps them safe is still unknown.
huh?
huh?
Yeah... I could not figure that out either.
Probably should be: "A small percentage don't get cancer."
Probably should be: "A small percentage don't get cancer."
That is incorrect.
What confused me is, grammatically, that was odd for the rest of the article.
There has never been a study that shows a direct link between smoking and cancer. Both the American Lung and Cancer Associations have outright lied about that. Down to the lying photo of the "black lung" which is Black Lung, not the lung of a smoker, several coroners have stated, under oath. that without a microscope they cannot tell the difference between a smoker's lung and a non-smoker's lung. Even the EPA was brought before Congress and many lost their jobs and one was brought before charges for faking numbers to give OSHA fake number to make it ok to push through the Second Hand Smoke issue to force private property owners to alter how they use their own property, even though they were in compliance with OSHA and EPA standards for their associates and patrons.. smoking bans are unconstitutional, if you did not get that, BTW. Private property, as long as the air meets OSHA and EPA standards, which it does 99.999% of the time, what someone does on their own property is no one's business.
The AMA have never shown a link, no study by any school or private study have ever shown a cancer risk increase over 8% for smokers.
The rest is propaganda. "Common sense" = Superstition, show me the numbers.
This is, however, off topic for this thread.
Yeah, protect your pockets if theya re deep. On bags of sand (for mixing with cement, for example) there is a warning to wear respiratory protection, to protect against silicosis. Osha mandates it. It is probably good advice. What's the risk to most users? (permissible exposure level) How is dumping a bag of sand and breathing the dust much different from spending a windy day at the beach?
Are we seeing a lot of silicosis from habitual beachcombers?
QUOTE
"Now, they said white blood cells from that mouse's descendants were injected into ordinary mice with cancer and their disease was completely wiped out."
lol this is nothing new. Its just another way of saying that you need a healthy immune system to fight cancer.
Alternative cancer therapies have always said this. Its simple: avoid things that damage the immune system and you not only avoid cancer, but many other diseases.
Big seal clap for Wake Forest University
I don't think so. They are not saying that health-minded mice avoid carcinogens. They're saying that they can cure late-stage cancers in mice. That is a significiant difference. Moreover, it is not common for white blood cells to destroy cancer.
They're saying that they bred a mouse which does not get cancer because it's white blood cells seek and destroy cancer. This ability is inherited by the mouse's descendants.
They can destroy cancers in other mice by injecting those mice with white blood cells from the super-mouse. By this method can eliminate even late-stage cancers. They claim there are no side-effects.
They don't know how the mechanism works or why this mouse's white blood cells destroy cancer, just that they do.
They're not sure how to get this working in humans yet. They're guessing that some humans also have cancer-destroying white blood cells (but you need to think of an ethical way to test for this). They've thought up a possible way to spread the benefits to humans, but they haven't tried it yet.
There has never been a study that shows a direct link between smoking and cancer.
....
The AMA have never shown a link, no study by any school or private study have ever shown a cancer risk increase over 8% for smokers.
The rest is propaganda. "Common sense" = Superstition, show me the numbers.
For the direct link, you should look at this article published in the New York Times ten years ago:
Direct Link Found Between Smoking and Lung Cancer
For scary numbers, look at pages 40 through 43 of
Cancer Facts and Figures 2005, published by the
American Cancer Society. They claim that, in the US, "tobacco use is responsible for nearly 1 in 5 deaths". They include nearly two pages of references, if you are looking for more numbers.
According to the
Smoking and Cancer Mortality Table, published by the American Cancer Society, men who are current smokers are 23.3 times as likely to die from Lung Cancer as non-smokers. Men who are former smokers are 8.7 times as likely to die from lung cancer as non-smokers.
In the 1950s,
Richard Doll surveyed over 40,000 doctors about their smoking habits. Two and a half years later, they surveyed the mortality rates. They found that people who smoked more than 25 grams of tobacco per day suffered from "excess mortality". The difference in mortality was statistically significant: BUT if they omitted deaths from lung cancer, the difference in mortality between smokers and non-smokers was was "no longer significant" (from page 4 of
this pdf of the original study).
Interesting first article...
I hope to see more feedback from the science community.
The American Cancer Society is known to skew numbers and lie, so everything they state is suspect.
I have heard all of their stuff before.
They're not sure how to get this working in humans yet. They're guessing that some humans also have cancer-destroying white blood cells (but you need to think of an ethical way to test for this). They've thought up a possible way to spread the benefits to humans, but they haven't tried it yet.
There's an established genetic connection. So solicit volunteers both from the non-cancerous public & current cancer patients. Non-cancerous volunteers would be screened for a family low on cancer, figuring that it's too early to tell what the specific nature of the gene is (I'm being vague here: someone with a better grasp of genetics could probably tell you how cancer-free the family would need to be to have the best chance of being cancer-immune without ruling out possibilities.) Then perform the "magic mouse blood cures cancer" test, subbing in the non-cancerous volunteer & the cancer patient accordingly.
Cancer is a disease with enough public support against it that rousing a massive amount of voluntary blood donations would be remarkably easy.
Although the whole idea of examining the non-cancerous members of society & looking for trends seems so obvious that I wonder what has come of it before.
Study finds no marijuana link to lung cancer
however
The study was confined to people under age 60 since baby boomers were the most likely age group to have long-term exposure to marijuana, said Dr. Donald Tashkin, senior researcher and professor at the UCLA School of Medicine.
The results should not be taken as a blank check to smoke pot, which has been associated with problems like cognitive impairment and chronic bronchitis, said Dr. John Hansen-Flaschen, chief of pulmonary and critical care at the University of Pennsylvania Health System in Philadelphia. He was not involved in the study.
I have been reading the thread posted by rtexanssane which began in March I believe. It was about B17. After reading this and the following threads, I wondered if ANY of the people responding to this piece actually has cancer? I was using it for research of Earnst T Krebs Jnr. I found it very informative and correct. I cannot believe so many other users found it necessary to pull it to pieces even to the point of pointing out spelling mistakes. Firstly, I have a brain tumour (3 of them actually) and sometimes, when I am typing my spelling does not always come out correctly. So lay off. Secondly, I am using Apricot Kernals (high amount of B17) and I have not had any hospital toxins pumped into my body for 12 months now. Guess what - HERE I AM. Granted it is not the only thing I am doing, but it is a very important part of my regimen.
I am now advising three other people about ways to get through cancer - even the head of neurosurgery at my hospital rang me to refer a patient of his to me! So good on you rtexanssane, and thank you for trying to educate people. :)
I find it very suspicious that this is your first post and it's THIS. Very, very suspicious. And, I don't think you are 'here' because of the apricot kernals. I think you are 'here' in spite of them. I think you are Spam and I think apricot kernal medicine is pure and utter bullshit.
His second post was removed as spam, so you are correct here Bri
His second post was removed as spam, so you are correct here Bri
For ONCE in my life!! Yay!
Hmm... Undertoad, by chance does his IP match the other promoter of B17?
When my mother had cancer and all other alternatives were fruitless, the last thing we tried was Laetril or B17. She died anyway. Before she'd even finished the treatment. We paid the clinic nearly $10 000 upfront which they refused to refund.
People with, and families of people with cancer will try almost anything to stop the pain their loved ones are going through. It's a shame there are so many cranks out there who are willing to profit from that emotional desperation.
Sorry Bri, I am not sure quite where you are coming from. Suspicious? Just cause I've only posted one thread? I see you have posted over 4,000. Now THAT'S sad. I want to answer you, but to be quite honest I haven't got a bloody clue what you are talking about. Unless you too have brain cancer and have lost it completely? If you DO, I can help you survive! :eyebrow: To the other threads, I am NOT profitting from talking about B17, I am not a crank, and I thought spam was a cold meat? And no, as undertoad might back me up on, I am not the same IP address as the other person promoting B17. I am an honest to god person who has cancer and was just making a point. B17 is just a small part of the regimen (as I pointed out in my first thread) the main part is NUTRITION. I am very sorry that some cellar members have lost loved ones to cancer. I know so many people who meet up with it. If this forum is purely to pull people apart and not for sharing information, then maybe I should find one that is actually sympathetic to people like me - a cancer sufferer. Sorry I ever mentioned it all now. I'll just crawl back into my world of trying to survive.
By the way Aliantha, I too am in Australia and although I am very sorry for your loss, I am intreagued to know which clinic would charge such an extortionate amount for B17 ( I presume that's what you were referring to?) I buy apricot kernals for $5.00 a kilo and crack them open to eat. If anyone is brave enough to tell me, what sort of things do you do for a job? Are there any doctors among you? Any researchers?
Look,annoyed---fucking apricot kernals DO NOT FUCKIN' WORK!! If they fucking DID you can bet the US would Fuckin' Make a MINT off them! Look. I'm going to meet you half way and suppose you're not like my ex-husbands granny--SHE was convinced cyanide (laetril) cured her cancer, that aliens landed on her corn field and Pope John Paul the Second was the AntiChrist.
PS-granny died of cancer.
More's the pity.
Wow - don't Americans get worked up? I can always find something to calm you down - chamomile tea perhaps? The American - and indeed Australian governments do not push or make a mint from apricot kernals because there is no huge profit to be made like they get from the pharmaceutical companies. That's why so many 'alternative' therapies are overlooked. There is no gain to the governments so they don't push them.You know how governments like to keep people sick on their drugs so they can keep reaping the rewards. Hell, my chemotherapy pills - 5 of them - cost AU$5,000?!
Back to the Vitamin B17 debate. The Hunza people eat a lot of apricots and always crack open the kernel and eat the seed. The apricot seed contains Vitamin B17. Vitamin B17 is the anticancer vitamin. Some researchers have found that cancer and sickle cell anemia are caused by a deficiency of vitamin B17, just as scurvy is caused by a deficiency of vitamin C, pernicious anemia is due to a deficiency of vitamin B12 and folic acid, and pellagra is caused by a deficiency of vitamin B3. Vitamin B17 kills cancer cells without harming normal cells, making it nature's chemotherapy. If vitamin B17 was patentable cancer would not be the problem it is today. However, without sufficient zinc in the body, vitamin B17 cannot function. Also, results are better if the vitamin B17 is taken together with nutrients such as vitamin C, the other B vitamins, vitamin A, manganese, magnesium, and selenium. Doctors prescribing vitamin B17 will generally use it as part of a total nutritional program consisting of diet, vitamins, minerals, enzymes and essential fatty acids. Soy foods are not recommended because they have the effect of inhibiting the body's ability to absorb certain minerals including calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and zinc.
The full story of vitamin B17 is to be found in the book World Without Cancer by G. Edward Griffin, American Media, 1997. This popular book is in its 13th printing and is highly recommended. Griffin also made a video tape entitled World Without Cancer summarizing the contents of the book. Alternative names for vitamin B17 are nitrilosides, amygdalin and laetrile. Regardless of what you have read in newspapers about laetrile, withhold your judgment until you have read the book and watched the video. Vitamin B17 is a standard part of alternative cancer therapy world-wide
Now, if you have managed to read all that, I can most certainly tell you I am not like your ex-husband's granny (is it any wonder it's an EX husband you refer to) I don't see aliens, just write to them through the cellar and as I have no religion, I cannot comment on the last piece. I can't wait to hear from you again. I can get a lot more information about other cancer cures if you like, not just B17. Thinking about it, I probably need to get a naturopath to write to you?:thepain3: By the way - do you have cancer? If not, why the fuck are you following this thread anyway?
That's why so many 'alternative' therapies are overlooked. There is no gain to the governments so they don't push them.
No, there is "gain". That's how the "alternative medicine" industry works. What's missing is "evidence that it works."
PLEASE will someone else with cancer write a thread here? I might get another bloody tumour if you all keep on like this. Is there NOBODY who actually believes in alternative and nutritional cures for cancer? I had a grade four aggressive tumour in my brain. I am still living thanks to nutrition and supplements. What is the deal here? Are all Americans anti health? Is that why there are so many people over there dieing of illnesses that could be avoided? I know I don't know what the American government is like with regards to charges. Is it really that bad? What can I give you as evidence that it works? A photo of me? A photo of the other people I have met who are my inspirations? I think I give up with all of you. I hope none of you get cancer.:rolleyes:
You're a single anecdotal case, do you know what that means?
You haven't made one statement about the actual physiology of the drugs and supplements you mention. If they worked, WHY did they work?
What can I give you as evidence that it works? A photo of me?
A scientific study, with a placebo group and a control group.
Please see today's IotD - and consider,
if that girl gets better, for whatever reason... there will be no convincing her the turtle didn't do it. Hmm... Undertoad, by chance does his IP match the other promoter of B17?
Nope, it didn't
annoyedas, the clinic was on the Gold Coast and we took Mum there 6 days a week for two weeks for her to be given the 'drugs' intravenously. She was also having apricot kernels in protien smoothies along with a multitude of other alternative treats including teas and vitamin supliments.
If you want to argue about alternative cancer treatments then go right ahead. I hope for your sake that they work for you. Nothing helped my mother.
My personal opinion is that 90% of the battle is fought by the mind anyway, and it seems to me that you've got your mind in the right place to beat this thing, so good luck to you.
Just one word of advice if you don't mind. Try to remember that just as your faith sustains you, so does the scepticism of others protect them. Just because someone doesn't agree with your point of view doesn't mean they're anti-health. It simply means they don't subscribe to your point of view. I don't think it matters what country you're from either.
A scientific study, with a placebo group and a control group.
And a side order of double-blind testing.
My personal opinion is that 90% of the battle is fought by the mind anyway...
Norman Cousins was diagnosed with terminal cancer (a not so well known celebrity) and was finishing out his days when he decided to order a copy of all the Three Stooges films ever made. He watched all of them and laughed more than he had ever laughed in his life.
The cancer went into full remission. No one can be sure that his good spirits chased the cancer away or wether a physiological justification exists for what happened but nonetheless it happened. One's mental attitude seems to have some kind of effect on cancer.
Okay, my last posting because I am in total disbelief of the majority of responses I have read about beating cancer. It is a lOT to do with the power of the mind. When I was told I had a brain tumour in Sept. 2004 and wasn't supposed to even see Christmas that year I walked out of that office and said Fuck you lot. Wait and see. I have a very strong will. I had the chemo and radio. It made me very sick. I am now taking: DHEA compound; Pic-Mins (mineral supplement); Arctic Distilled Cod Liver Oil; Methyl-Guard;Deluxe Scavingers; Vitamin C; Evening Primrose Oil – 500mg 3 times a day;Vitamin E Capsules – 1000mg 3 times a day;1 Lemon Juice a day - pure fresh squeezed 'neat';powder of: Withania somnifera - Cytoprotective for normal cells, anti-inflammatory, antitumour, general tonic
Astragalus membranaceus - immune stimulant, potentiates the action of
chemo-therapeutics
Bacopa monniera - excellent anti-inflammatory, reduces fitting in epilepsy
Taraxacum officinalis - Liver tonic
Silybum marianum - Hepatoprotective, restores damaged liver cell function
Curcuma longa (turmeric) - Anti carcinogenic, activates phase 2 liver enzymes, helps restore positive gut flora. – 9 capsules daily (capsules are 00 size);Antioxidant powder – 6 capsules daily;Sheep Sorrel Combination tea; and dare I say it Apricot kernals.
Aliantha, I am truely sorry for your loss and I think that the clinic you attended were just out for money. It is disgusting they should do such a thing. Well, that's all folks. Interesting writing to you all.
I had the chemo and radio.
Huh.
Probably meant radiation.
You Cellarites should be ashamed of yourselves for not falling prostrate and taking notes before annoyedsas.
Of course he/she is taking a plethoria of alternative cures, and doesn't know which are helping and which are not...or maybe even hurting.
He/she doesn't know if any of this will help or hurt you but that doesn't stop him/her from being an expert who must be believed and obeyed.
He/she sounds like a former...you know, former smoker, former drinker, former sinner.....:smack:
I know I said final one last time BUT.......................Undertoad, do you mean Huh as in I KNEW I had had other treatment or Huh as in ? Yeah yeah, chemo, radiotherapy AND brain surgery. Do you know what that did? Caused a third lesion to branch off deeper into the brain, inoperable and no more radiation possible which is why I looked to go alternative. If I knew then what I know now, I would never have stepped foot into that bloody hospital. And xoxoxoBruce I think you are the first thread who isn't a nutcase. I have no pain anymore, no headaches and no seizures. Just for the record I am not a former anything really. Didn't smoke, drink - ok sinned a lot lol! But it stemmed from toxicity and crap eating and living in an environment (in London most of my life) that had lots of electricity pilons around. Look, here I go again, trying desperately to justify myself when I really don't need to. I know what I'm doing and how I am doing, and at the end of the day that's all that matters. Ciao x
...You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me
...I'm not a complete idiot -- Some parts are missing.
...I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it.
...Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.
...Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.
..Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?
...A picture is worth a thousand words, but it uses up three
...thousand times the memory.
...I smile because I don't know what the hell is going on.
If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be
I really wish you well annoyedsas. If you can beat it then good luck to you. It really doesn't matter what anyone else says. As long as you believe it and it's working for you, let the skeptics go.
My own opinion isn't what yours is, but it doesn't mean that either is less valid. Living life the best way you can is what matters and it seems to me you're doing the best you can. I'm glad the good spirits are watching over you.
Do you know what that did? Caused a third lesion to branch off deeper into the brain, inoperable and no more radiation possible which is why I looked to go alternative.
What is the physiology behind such a thing happening? How could it
cause a branch in you while reducing tumors in so many other people? Do you deny that others are cured using "traditional" means?
My own opinion isn't what yours is, but it doesn't mean that either is less valid.
Once we talk science and logic, that statement doesn't fly. 2+2=4 even if my opinion is that 2+2=5.
I am now taking:
[LIST]
[*]DHEA compound
[*]Pic-Mins (mineral supplement)
[*]Arctic Distilled Cod Liver Oil
[*]Methyl-Guard;Deluxe Scavingers
[*]Vitamin C
[*]Evening Primrose Oil – 500mg 3 times a day
[*]Vitamin E Capsules – 1000mg 3 times a day
[*]1 Lemon Juice a day - pure fresh squeezed 'neat'
[*]powder of: Withania somnifera - Cytoprotective for normal cells, anti-inflammatory, antitumour, general tonic
[*]Astragalus membranaceus - immune stimulant, potentiates the action of chemo-therapeutics
[*]Bacopa monniera - excellent anti-inflammatory, reduces fitting in epilepsy
[*]Taraxacum officinalis - Liver tonic
[*]Silybum marianum - Hepatoprotective, restores damaged liver cell function
[*]Curcuma longa (turmeric) - Anti carcinogenic, activates phase 2 liver enzymes, helps restore positive gut flora. – 9 capsules daily (capsules are 00 size)
[*]Antioxidant powder – 6 capsules daily
[*]Sheep Sorrel Combination tea
[*]Apricot kernals.[/LIST]
:eek: Sounds like you'll take any pill anybody reccommends, as long as they have no credentials.
why don't you all fuck off and get a bent disease? I hope that none of you ever find a cure to anything you get. And Happy Monkey won't be happy anymore.
Undertoad - are you a physician? Doctor? Anything special other than a host to a stupid full of Amercian crap chat?
Once we talk science and logic, that statement doesn't fly. 2+2=4 even if my opinion is that 2+2=5. What is the physiology behind such a thing happening? How could it cause a branch in you while reducing tumors in so many other people? Do you deny that others are cured using "traditional" means?!
Oh, Grow Up
How could it cause a branch in you while reducing tumors in so many other people?
Are you suggesting that radiation doesn't cause cancer - or that it doesn't kill it?
Do you deny that others are cured using "traditional" means?
if that girl gets better, for whatever reason... there will be no convincing her the turtle didn't do it.
Substitute turtle for "traditional" means.
If placebos work so well, why would anyone pay so much for the "traditional" drugs that are frequently removed from the market after the FDA figures out they do more harm than good?
Radiation causes cancer in one way, reduces it in another; chemicals cause cancer in one way, reduce it in another. I doubt they gave annoyedsas the versions that cause it.
Merely saying "I did this and I'm cured" is proof enough for some, but not for me and not for traditional medicine either. They apply higher standards and that's why the survival rate has increased so dramatically.
Higher standards than annoyedsas, who apparently now says I need to be a doctor to demand to discuss the physiology. Which is really ironic, since if I was a doctor I would be a part of the system he seems to dislike so thoroughly, and he would surely find a reason to ignore me on that basis.
Placebos work well, but not better than cures. We know this with confidence because almost every single drug in the system is rigorously blind-tested for effectiveness against placebo.
When/how did "they" figure out that ionizing radiation in combo with anti-cancer drugs was highly carcinogencic? Are you sure that it wasn't by experimenting on cancer patients, like annoyedsas? I don't know...
Well yeah, the fuzzy area for testing would be on highly terminal diseases.
I've been having a think about this thread over the last couple of days and I wanted to put something to the other members besides annoyedsas.
Can you imagine how you'd feel if you did indeed have cancer? If so, if you thought you had a cure for it, don't you think you'd want to tell the world? And if it came to that and someone tried to tell you that your idea is loopy, don't you think that your reaction would be hostile simply because when you're facing death head on and someone tells you that the exit door you have in mind isn't working, you either have to go ahead and try it for yourself, or accept that there's no point and simply give up.
Which would you choose?
For my mind, I'd say if I had to choose one or the other, I'd keep charging forward, and I'm pretty sure most other people would choose that option also. This leads me to the real point of this post.
Where's the compassion? Maybe you think the particular poster is a crank or a loony, but what if he/she is not? What if this person is fair dinkum? How will you feel if your negativity causes him/her to go along with your line of thinking and they start to doubt their own treatment which leads to their death? Who can really say what might or might not cure cancer?
It seems to me there's a lot of grey area still with that particular disease, and if someone finds something that works for them, then anyone associated should either be supportive or back off, just as with cancer you either live or die. 90% of the cure is in the mind anyway, but then, that's just my opinion.
If we really want to cure cancer, we can't afford that sort of compassion, where someone is entitled to be thought of as possibly more correct simply because they have the disease.
Thousands of other diseases are no longer such mysteries and are no longer killers because we applied good science to the problem. Cancer is no longer the certain killer that it once was because we applied good science to the problem.
It seems harsh and thoughtless to tell a victim s/he is wrong. But the very worst thing that we can do is to start taking anecdotal cases seriously out of compassion. If we do, we will create more victims by pushing bad science.
It is important for us to be active participants in our own health. But when we do we should approach the problem with relentless proven facts. If the medical system fails us because it is an economic disaster, we should not abandon the medical science that was developed despite the system.
I have been researching Vitamin B-17 and have followed many stories who have cured themselves from cancer. This can't be coincidental.
Yes it can. Does every cancer patient who takes B17 survive cancer? Does every cancer patient who doesn't take B17 die of cancer? If the answer to either of those questions is no, then the stories are worthless - there are other stories you aren't looking for that have B17-takers dying or non-B17-takers recovering. You need a scientific study to determine whether the B17 increases the chances of recovery or not.
You can't patent a fruit, a seed or a vitamin.
Yes you can. Not that I think you should be able to, but you can. And even if there is a non-patentable but good source, non-patented medicine is a huge business as well.
This would be the end to a multi-billion dollar business worldwide.
How about the "alternative medicine" business? They make billions, too, and they don't even have to spend any of it on research. Just marketing.
But more directly - a study of B17 would be easy. It wouldn't require the resources of a huge pharmaceutical giant. A tenured professor at a medical school could get a grant from any number of sources and do it himself. If he finds a cure, he gets a Nobel prize, almost guaranteed. Whatever school he is affiliated with becomes the school that cured cancer.
edit - ah, well. so long Kim.
edit - ah, well. so long Kim.
I saw it too. Kim deleted her post.
Putting a link in your first post is specifically mentioned as not permitted in the registration process. Kim included several.
One further thing about the economics of cancer cures - if there were a cheap, effective cure for cancer, there would be an eonomic boom! Just think of all the products and activities that turned out to be carcinogenic!
I'm telling you, only the extremely rich and powerful would have access to it.
I think I may be in a unique position to comment on this thread.
My father has cancer. He was diagnosed with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia in July of 2001. It is an incurable disease. Some people survive for decades with it, and some die within a year or two. He has one of the more aggresive subtypes, with a median survival of five years.
In response to his diagnosis, my mother (a PhD chemist) went on a learning binge. She studied till her eyes were bleeding. Then she started posting on
ACOR and talking with the experts. She soon started her own yahoo! group (clltopics). When that became too unwieldy, she and my dad started
Clltopics.org, a non-profit patient information and advocacy site.
They are currently fundraising for their
second clinical trial with the Mayo Clinic. Their
first clinical trial is actually targeted at exactly the type of non-pharmaceutical that Annoyed is so hung up on. EGCG does show promise as an anti-cancer agent, and the folks involved are putting up their own hard-earned cash (
$129,784.06 in donations, so far) to prove it in a clinical setting.
Instead of hard and fast
proven data, Annoyed gives us "vitamin B17". a 5-minute search of the web turns it up at
Quackwatch (emphasis is mine):
Laetrile
Laetrile, which achieved great notoriety during the 1970s and early 1980s, is the trade name for a synthetic relative of amygdalin, a chemical in the kernels of apricot pits, apple seeds, bitter almonds, and some other stone fruits and nuts. Many laetrile promoters have called it "vitamin B17" and falsely claimed that cancer is a vitamin deficiency disease that laetrile can cure. Claims for laetrile's efficacy have varied considerably [39]. First it was claimed to prevent and cure cancer. Then it was claimed not to cure, but to "control" cancer while giving patients an increased feeling of well being. More recently, laetrile has been claimed to be effective, not by itself, but as one component of "metabolic therapy" (described below).
Laetrile was first used to treat cancer patients in California in the 1950s. According to proponents, it kills tumor cells selectively while leaving normal cells alone. Although laetrile has been promoted as safe and effective, clinical evidence indicates that it is neither [40]. When subjected to enzymatic breakdown in the body, it forms glucose, benzaldehyde, and hydrogen cyanide [41]. Some cancer patients treated with laetrile have suffered nausea, vomiting, headache and dizziness, and a few have died from cyanide poisoning. Laetrile has been tested in at least 20 animal tumor models and found to have no benefit either alone or together with other substances. Several case reviews have found no benefit for the treatment of cancer in humans.
In response to political pressure, a clinical trial was begun in 1982 by the Mayo Clinic and three other U.S. cancer centers under NCI sponsorship. Laetrile and "metabolic therapy" were administered as recommended by their promoters. The patients had advanced cancer for which no proven treatment was known. Of 178 patients, not one was cured or stabilized, and none had any lessening of any cancer-related symptoms. The median survival rate was about five months from the start of therapy. In those still alive after seven months, tumor size had increased. Several patients experienced symptoms of cyanide toxicity or had blood levels of cyanide approaching the lethal range [42].
In 1975, a class action suit was filed to stop the FDA from interfering with the sale and distribution of laetrile. Early in the case, a federal district court judge in Oklahoma issued orders allowing cancer patients to import a six-month supply of laetrile for personal use if they could obtain a physician's affidavit that they were "terminal." In 1979, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that it is not possible to be certain who is terminal and that even if it were possible, both terminally ill patients and the general public deserve protection from fraudulent cures. In 1987, after further appeals were denied, the district judge (a strong proponent of laetrile) finally yielded to the higher courts and terminated the affidavit system [39]. Few sources of laetrile are now available within the United States, but it still is utilized at several Mexican clinics.
So, Annoyed, tell me again... Why should we believe you?
WHERE IS YOUR SCIENTIFIC, CLINICAL PROOF?
Fuck off and die.
What?? You had to ban me from your forum and delete my message?? Shame on you!
Anyways, let me clarify some things here:
Yes it can. Does every cancer patient who takes B17 survive cancer? Does every cancer patient who doesn't take B17 die of cancer? If the answer to either of those questions is no, then the stories are worthless - there are other stories you aren't looking for that have B17-takers dying or non-B17-takers recovering. You need a scientific study to determine whether the B17 increases the chances of recovery or not.
Yes you can. Not that I think you should be able to, but you can. And even if there is a non-patentable but good source, non-patented medicine is a huge business as well.
NO, YOU CANNOT PATENT A FRUIT OR VITAMIN! And no not EVERY person who takes Vitamin B17 survives cancer. For one thing, if they have already had chemo and radiation there body has already been attacked and of course this depends on how much the cancer has spread.
How about the "alternative medicine" business? They make billions, too, and they don't even have to spend any of it on research. Just marketing.
But more directly - a study of B17 would be easy. It wouldn't require the resources of a huge pharmaceutical giant. A tenured professor at a medical school could get a grant from any number of sources and do it himself. If he finds a cure, he gets a Nobel prize, almost guaranteed. Whatever school he is affiliated with becomes the school that cured cancer.
They have done studies on Vitamin B17. Hey! It took more than 200 hundred years for people to believe that Vitamin C can get rid of Scurvy.
Alternative medicine is big business and WILL GET EVEN BIGGER! They are the people who are trying to advocate alternative methods to cancer. Hey! I have had 3 people in my family who have gone through chemo therapy so I know first hand who the hell they can do to your system! I also have another family member who more recently opted for alternative and is still alive 4 years later when she was told she would be dead within a year!!! Geez, was SHE the crazy one here!! And no, not everyone who tries alternative therapy can cure themselves from cancer just as a triple bypass surgery doesn't always cure everyone who has a heart problem!!
I think you better do your research here because it sounds as though you don't know too much about anything!
edit - ah, well. so long Kim.
Yea, so long!! What? You are going to delete this message again!! For some reason you people don't like knowing the truth. :mad:
Whatever!
As I explained twice to you in private mail already, and once in this thread, you cannot post a link on your first message, and the registration process that you have been through twice now, explains that quite clearly.
B17 advocacy, brought to you by those with no reading comprehension skills. It's no coincidence.
NO, YOU CANNOT PATENT A FRUIT OR VITAMIN!
Tell that to Montsano. I wish you were correct. In fact, I wish you were correct about the whole thing. But wishing isn't enough.
And no not EVERY person who takes Vitamin B17 survives cancer.
Thanks. So the answer to at least one of the questions is no. Therefore, testimonials are worthless. Testimonials only refer to a single case, and there's no way to tell whether that individual would have survived without the B17. That's why you need a) a large sample size, b) a control group, c) a placebo group, and d) double-blind procedures.
They have done studies on Vitamin B17.
And the studies showed no beneficial effect. I suppose you could keep testing for 200 years, and hope the results change.
Alternative medicine is big business and WILL GET EVEN BIGGER!
No doubt. They're corporations, just as amoral as the pharmaceutical industry, and unhindered by research budgets or FDA regulation. They'll roll in dough.
And no, not everyone who tries alternative therapy can cure themselves from cancer just as a triple bypass surgery doesn't always cure everyone who has a heart problem!!
You misunderstood my point. I was saying that there will be survivors and nonsurvivors in any case, so individual stories don't give any useful information.
Just remember that the "alternative" in "alternative medicine" means "unproven."
I'm telling you, only the extremely rich and powerful would have access to it.
What, you don't think a mining company would love to reduce medical and training costs by dosing their employees? Or power plants? Big Tobacco would jump at the chance to put it in cigarrettes or, if that's not possible, make it available over the counter. Aspartame manufacturers, too. There are all sorts of big businesses that would benefit from a cheap and effective cancer cure.
You really think it will be inexpensive?
No, I think that when a cancer cure is discovered, it will be the results of millions of dollars in research and a difficult and expensive manufacturing process. It will be expensive during the length of its patent, especially because of the large number of current patients who would want it. Eventually it would get cheaper with the introduction of generics and the increase of manufacturing capability.
But I think that because I don't think it is as easy as eating apricot pits. If an easy and cheap cancer cure were proven, there would be plenty of big-money sources that would benefit from its success. "Alternative medicine" isn't a victim of corporate deceit; it is a perpetrator.
Call me a glutton for punishment, but I just had to respond to Pie. "Fuck off and die"? I will gladly continue to stay away from the cellar (apart from the odd line here and there just to get you Americans going again) but die? No sorry, that won't happen because I am bloody healthy and fighting my cancer. By the way, if you all keep on like this, I think you will all be candidates for cancer. And Kim, I wouldn't keep on. This lot slag you off if you don't think like they do. I actually wonder if any of you noted that B17 wasn't the ONLY thing I am doing? It is just a small part of my regimen. If you weren't sitting down to write these threads, your brains might work better if you weren't squashing them. Keep going guys, I'm happy as Larry listening to y'all!!!:) :) :) :) :) :)
Instead of hard and fast proven data, Annoyed gives us "vitamin B17". a 5-minute search of the web turns it up at Quackwatch (emphasis is mine):
Stephen Barrett is an idiot who is fond of SLAPP lawsuits motivated by his own greed. :rolleyes:
No, I think that when a cancer cure is discovered, it will be the results of millions of dollars in research and a difficult and expensive manufacturing process. It will be expensive during the length of its patent, especially because of the large number of current patients who would want it. Eventually it would get cheaper with the introduction of generics and the increase of manufacturing capability.
But I think that because I don't think it is as easy as eating apricot pits. If an easy and cheap cancer cure were proven, there would be plenty of big-money sources that would benefit from its success. "Alternative medicine" isn't a victim of corporate deceit; it is a perpetrator.
Just like how aids treatments have gotten so much more available after all this time? Sure, all aids patients world wide are running around like Magic Johnson, right?
Exactly like that. AIDS treatments are much more available and somewhat cheaper now than they were when Magic got them. Not apricot pit cheap, but cheaper. And the patents haven't even expired yet, so the generics haven't fully entered the field, except in countries that waived the patents for public health purposes.
"Alternative medicine", however, is happy to sell you some tap water to help
boost your immune system.
Alternative Medicine is absolutely big business, and likely to get bigger, because it's largely untested, unregulated, and unuseful. Sorry about the neologism, but I was going for the alliteration.
I know someone who has a very aggressive cancer, and instead of pursuing "Nasty Western Medicine" this very dear woman has been going to Mexico and paying $20K up front to spend some time in a hyperbaric chamber. Somehow she even got her boss to fund one of these excursions.
She says she feels great.
Of course she does. You always feel great when you are laying around in an oxygen rich environment. Feels wonderful. You get an excellent sense of well-being from it.
But that's about it, at least with respect to breast cancer that's metastisized to the brain and lymph nodes. Hyperbaric chambers are great for tissue growth after extensive damage to the epidermis, but damn little else.
Despite her feeling good, I honestly doubt she'll make it past November.
I'd love to be wrong.
Just like how aids treatments have gotten so much more available after all this time? Sure, all aids patients world wide are running around like Magic Johnson, right?
Although I'm not allowed to name names, I know about a dozen people on "The Cocktail" who only have Medicaid.
You don't have to believe someone's story to have compassion for them.
Pretending that a fraud is true isn't compassionate.
Call me a glutton for punishment,
You're a glutton for punishment.
I still think you're a shill for the cyanide--oops--'alternative medicine' company.
Stephen Barrett is an idiot who is fond of SLAPP lawsuits motivated by his own greed. :rolleyes:
I have no particular interest or support for Barrett. I quoted it as a site that had citations of relevance.
Annoyedsas: sorry to hear about your cancer. What regimens are you treating your cancer with? There is a great website called curezone.com that you may want to post messages etc. I hope you get better. I have known a lot of people who have conquered cancer from alternative methods plus a mix of both alternative and orthodox medicine (surgery mainly). From personal experience in knowing people who have used alternative methods, Vitamin B17was only one of MANY methods they used at a time. Shark Cartliage supplements, yoga and juicing and many more were used. Also, it sounds like you have a POSITIVE mind which will help you during this difficult time as well. You should go over to curezone as they share stories about literally anything medical related. I used to get migraine headaches for the past 10 years and have stopped them in their tracks by taking magnesium everyday. I have been migraine-free for almost a year now!! I don't have cancer and hopefully I will never get it but I can't imagine those who have to go through it including yourself.
About Vitamin B17:
Instead of hard and fast proven data, Annoyed gives us "vitamin B17". a 5-minute search of the web turns it up at Quackwatch (emphasis is mine):
For one thing - QUACKWATCH?? Are you serious? Who believes anything they say on their site? They are the QUACKS.
The following people have been noted in the past for being QUACKS!
Christopher Columbus was attacked for saying the earth was round.
Gelieo was in prison for teaching that the earth moved around the sun.
The Wright Brothers were rediculed & condemned for claiming that a machine could fly above the earth.
William Harvery was disgraced as a physician for believing that blood was pumped by the heart & actually moved around the body through arteries.
Another known doctor as fired from his hospital post for requesting that his maternity staff wash their hands!
So tell me WHO ARE THE QUACKS HERE? Gee, like I'm going to believe them.
Vitamin C got rid of Scurvy and Vitamin D got rid of Rickets. Need I say more.
Yes. They laughed at Columbus. They laughed at Galileo. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Gee, kim, you and annoyedsas have really convinced me. I am in total agreement with you both. And, sure I'll join your cult. Aren't all you guys now convinced, too?
Maybe if no body says anything, they'll go away.
About Vitamin B17:
So tell me WHO ARE THE QUACKS HERE? Gee, like I'm going to believe them.
So, again:
Where is your scientific proof? Give me citations of peer reviewed, placebo controlled double-blind trials, and I'll take a look. Otherwise, stop wasting my time.
Vitamin C got rid of Scurvy and Vitamin D got rid of Rickets. Need I say more.
“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - HL Menkin
You want testimonials in the use of Vitamin B17??
Here ya go:
http://credence.org/testimon.html
Lots of testimonials! Enjoy your read!
You want testimonials in the use of Vitamin B17??
No I don't. Testimonials are worthless.
Bzzzzzzzt!
Testimonial != peer reviewed placebo controlled double-blind trial
Try again.
Kimberley, I told you that unless you are Brianna - ruler of all knowledge (isn't it hillarious by the way that you can make the word brain from that name, given there is obviously not one) then it is not worth continuing. I'm sure they all sit in the same room typing with one hand only if you know what I mean. How sad. I don't think they should be allowed to know about the great things B17 has done for so many. Happy Monkey, (can I call you ape now we know each other?) and Pie. Is it Pie cause you can only manage to remember three letters at one time? Go on - all have a go back. This is SO not to do with health anymore, everyone should just forget it all and discuss a new topic like AIDS being cured with orange juice. And just for the record Brain - sorry Brianna I will NEVER bugger off. I am too strong for that. I think Kimberley is too. Thanks for the link Kimberley.:D :D :D :D
YOU ARE VERY WELCOMED!!:) :)
Although I'm not allowed to name names, I know about a dozen people on "The Cocktail" who only have Medicaid.
Do you think The Cocktail is all that Magic gets? Not just that, sure a percentage in the US gets that, but how many and who gets chosen.
How long has it been available, how long did it take?
I'm telling you, I have family that are rich, not just rich, but Rich. Close family. They get treated
differently and often get things that others do not.
Do you think that the ultra rich have to wait for laws to change for stem cell research to get stem cell therapy? No, they go to Germany or Brazil and get it, depending on what form they need. Or they get it here and just break the law. Simple.
There is a level of medical treatment that is different than what most get, it is a fact. I have seen the results and heard them discuss it.
Pretending that a fraud is true isn't compassionate.
Well, that may be true, but in this case, I don't think it matters what kind of cure the person is using or how fraudulent it is. If it helps the person beat cancer by believing in it, then good for that person.
I think it's sad that some people have handled their responses here in such an aggressive manner.
Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe state of mind has nothing to do with getting over anything. Maybe every time someone gets better it can be attributed to something 'scientific'.
Maybe we should all just give up when faced with something that seems too hard.
My aunt had stem cell therapy here in Australia to treat her cancer. She's been in remission ever since. She's not very rich. She just has a doctor who's willing to consider all alternatives.
Well, that may be true, but in this case, I don't think it matters what kind of cure the person is using or how fraudulent it is. If it helps the person beat cancer by believing in it, then good for that person.
I think it's sad that some people have handled their responses here in such an aggressive manner.
Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe state of mind has nothing to do with getting over anything. Maybe every time someone gets better it can be attributed to something 'scientific'.
Maybe we should all just give up when faced with something that seems too hard.
I realize you're being sarcastic but you know that's silly. Attitude is very important but so is making logical, rational and reasonable choices of treatments. :eyebrow:
Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin. Listen children. Go to
www.laetrile.com.au Read, digest, learn then eat humble pie.
Originally posted by Aliantha
Well, that may be true, but in this case, I don't think it matters what kind of cure the person is using or how fraudulent it is. If it helps the person beat cancer by believing in it, then good for that person.
I think it's sad that some people have handled their responses here in such an aggressive manner.
Is it because we are in Australia that we actually respect eachother?
Originaly posted by Kimberly
What regimens are you treating your cancer with?
see thread #33.
Bye y'all
Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin. Listen children. Go to www.laetrile.com.au Read, digest, learn then eat humble pie.
Any information presented in this web site should not be taken as medical advice in any form. A qualified practitioner should always be consulted when seeking treatment for cancer.
Understatement of the year.
If you believe in God the logic of how B17 kills cancer will be easy to accept and understand when you realise that God has given our bodies a natural defense against cancer which is determined by the food or junk we eat in our diet.
So in place of science, they give us testimonials and "God says so", with a bit of evangelism for the 7th Day Adventists.
You're going to need to cook that humble pie for me a bit longer.
Actually it WAS my qualified practitioner who suggested I have B17!? I tell you what, why don't you leave the cancer to the people who have it and stick to woodwork which you are obviously very good at.
If all you want is to spread the good news, maybe you should put up a website without a discussion section.
... woodwork which you are obviously very good at.
Thanks. Speaking of which, I've got a couple more pics which I should get around to uploading...
That's because your "qualified practitioner" is only practicing. Doctors don't have the answer because there isn't one yet, there's just a lot of possibilities so they shotgun to try and find something that will help the individual case.:shotgun:
I realize you're being sarcastic but you know that's silly. Attitude is very important but so is making logical, rational and reasonable choices of treatments. :eyebrow:
The only part of my statement which was even close to sarcastic was the last one. I believe state of mind is the MOST important part of beating any disease whether it's physical, emotional or a mixture of both.
My point is, there's absolutely no point in being defeatist, or in trying to denegrate another person for their choices with regard to their health care.
Until you've personally faced cancer, you have no understanding of how it affects you mentally and physically. You have no concept of the uselessness of 'modern medicine', and obviously no understanding of the lengths you might go to in order to beat the disease - if in fact you are strong enough in will and spirit to fight it rather than submit.
Don't judge another person for their choices until you've had a chance to understand why they've made those choices.
If I'm sick, I hope there will be people around me who are smarter than me, to help me make the best decisions in my weakened state.
If people mock me for my decisions, it won't hurt me, or affect my ability to deal with the disease. It will be the same experience I've had my whole life.
Here are the results of the "useless" modern system.
5-Year Relative Survival Rates
You will notice that the survival rate has risen, over the last 20 years, from 50% to 65%. From 55% to 65% in the last ten years alone!!!
The increase is not the result of more compassion for people's choices and it is not the result of eating more B17.
It's nice to be nice to the sick. They can of course do whatever they like. As with the non-sick, they often make poor choices. If the choices are poor, and I think so, I will point that out. I believe that is being nice.
Joe Bloggs: "I have skin cancer on my hand... I'm going to cut it off with this table saw."
Aliantha: "Hugs! Good luck with that!"
Undertoad: "Wait!! There might be a better way!!"
I just now noticed this thread. I thought it was another one of those spam threads about vitamin deficiency causing cancer... can you imagine that? ;)
But I do have a question... What is your take on B12? I have heard that many believe that is another neccessary vitamin to take in order to "cure" cancer, along with the B17 you are talking about. What do you know about pernicious anemia, annoyed? Not that you are still here, but I was curious to hear what you had to say about it.
So I like to think of myself as a man of science, even if there are certain fields (chemistry, biology, countless others) that I can truthfully say I'm woefully ignorant of.
And being (as far as I know) cancer-free, and having a familial history of dodging that bullet, perhaps I don't understand the perspective of someone that is stricken.
I've heard the arguments that the pharmaceutical companies are only interested in putting out products that put off the symptoms rather than produce a cure, and my cynical nature finds those to be compelling. I could totally see blind capitalism driving a system that keeps people hooked on a treatment rather than offering the finality of really solving the problem.
So with those disclaimers aside, I have to say that the last and best defense against the snake-oil salesman is the scientific method. Whatever ulterior motives the modern medicine industry might have, no matter how tainted the FDA might have become through political lobbying, there's nothing more compelling than a stringently-controlled study that can survive the rigors of peer review.
So I'll keep my mind open to the wonderful possibility of B17 or apricot seeds or whatever, but until the extraordinary evidence can be produced to back up these extraordinary claims, I'm going to maintain my skepticism.
If the system really has become tainted through the siren's call of profit, perhaps all we've got left is the once-sacred halls of academia. The trick is to get enough people to care such that those institutions can gather enough funding to outweigh the potential bias that is a research grant from the same industries that would put profit over well-being.
It's not an easy path, but if you want to avoid the stigma of "Grasping at straws" or "Industry shill", getting the scientific evidence will go a long way to promoting positive change.
UT...if you think it's that simplistic from your perspective that's fine, but it's certainly not from mine.
Have another go at reading my mind and see if you can come any closer huh?
So I'll keep my mind open to the wonderful possibility of B17 or apricot seeds or whatever, but until the extraordinary evidence can be produced to back up these extraordinary claims, I'm going to maintain my skepticism.
If the system really has become tainted through the siren's call of profit, perhaps all we've got left is the once-sacred halls of academia.
This is something I wish these "B17" subscribers would understand: the real drive behind medicine are research universities. It is an open system and no matter what individual produces the treatment, it can be up for peer review. If the statistics don't pan out and a medicine is found
ineffective or
harmful, then it isn't going to fly, no matter how hard the pharm companies push.
There is no corporate drive to keep "vitamin" B17 away from cancer victims. There is no conspiracy to hide the cure. It is as simple as this: the treatment doesn't stand up to peer review. There is no data to show that it works, no clinical trials have shown it to be effective. What you see in
one person cannot be generalized to everyone -- a sugar pill has better results in cancer treatment. Until we see something stating otherwise
here,
here, or
here, no one should be parading this method around as treatment or preventative medicine.
Until you've personally faced cancer, you have no understanding of how it affects you mentally and physically. ... obviously no understanding of the lengths you might go to in order to beat the disease ... Don't judge another person for their choices until you've had a chance to understand why they've made those choices. ... I don't think it matters what kind of cure the person is using or how fraudulent it is. If it helps the person beat cancer by believing in it, then good for that person.
That is exactly why this whole thing screams snakeoil. The way it is described, the way it is advertised. The desperation, the supposed conspiracy, the dark curtain being pulled over everyone's eyes. You'd swear it might be about taking advantage of people in need. But, hey, maybe I'm the only one that thinks the "research" on B17 sounds like a bad Art Bell show or looks like an ad for magnetic bracelets/crystal pendants that heal arthritis.
Well, as I stated earlier in this thread, I don't subscribe to any of these alternative so called 'cures' for cancer. One thing I would add though is that if more traditional methods are tried and then fail, then what is the harm in trying an alternative therapy? If the doctors tell you you're about to croak anyway, surely you can't do any more harm.
Again, I'd also note that I think it's fair enough for people to disagree on the subject, but if someone believes in a therapy and for whatever reason, it appears to be working for them, I don't think there is anything to be gained by belittling that person.
One thing I would add though is that if more traditional methods are tried and then fail, then what is the harm in trying an alternative therapy? If the doctors tell you you're about to croak anyway, surely you can't do any more harm.
That's not all it is. If you look at the B17 sites, they aren't saying, "If you've tried everything else and doctors say there's no hope, why don't you try this?" They're saying, "medical solutions are poison and only designed to get your money and apricot pits are to cancer what limes are to scurvy". They want people to try this
first.
That's true HM. Again, I'm not refuting anyone's opinion on this matter. I'm questioning the way the poster was questioned and I'd even go so far as to say attacked because of his/her thoughts or feelings on the subject.
Anyway, I don't really think there's any point in posting anymore on this thread.
Not the poster being attacked, the dissemination of questionable information.
Right now this thread has less than a hundred posts and almost 1500 views.
People are reading and maybe believing bad information if we don't question it.
I'm sure there are people with cancer, and their loved ones, scouring the web for any glimmer of hope there might be a magic cure, they just haven't found yet. The web is full of bad information, we shouldn't add any more. :headshake
Well, as I stated earlier in this thread, I don't subscribe to any of these alternative so called 'cures' for cancer. One thing I would add though is that if more traditional methods are tried and then fail, then what is the harm in trying an alternative therapy? If the doctors tell you you're about to croak anyway, surely you can't do any more harm.
Again, I'd also note that I think it's fair enough for people to disagree on the subject, but if someone believes in a therapy and for whatever reason, it appears to be working for them, I don't think there is anything to be gained by belittling that person.
There is no harm in that, the harm is in telling others that it is a cure and having them ignore methods that work.
As for your statement about feelings vs facts... one has nothing to do with the other.
If someone posts something as a fact and it is disputed and shown to be wrong, feelings don't enter into it & it is not an attack, it is information, pure and simple.
I have several things wrong with me & am constantly barraged with well intentioned people who actually tell me to stop my meds and just get acupuncture or drink grapefruit juice or some similar insanity... it is harmful to spread such crap to those who may take them seriously just to feel empowered. That is all it is.
I think it is very sad that you have all brought this subject to such a low, cockfight of a discussion. If someone has anything positive to say about alternative therapies, I will keep an eye out. Meanwhile, UT, Pie, Brianna, xoxoxoBruce, rkzenrage, Aliantha (sorry to tag you in, but you too have some negativity), Happy Monkey - I truely pray none of you get what I have - cancer - and am fiercly fighting and winning I might add.
Good for you. I hope you continue to beat it and eventually winning....my Mom did.
I heard recently, something like 1.4 million Americans are diagnosed with cancer every year and 0.5 million of them will lose that battle, but that means nearly 2 out of 3 beat it.
For the last three years I've worked in a department with about 30 people and fully half of them have cancer. That's because the employees that come down with serious illnesses are moved to that department.
I've shared their ups and downs, triumphs and defeats, and listened to their stories, many of which are searches for information.
I've seen the sparkle in their eyes when they find some new treatment and seen the sparkle fade when they talk to others that have researched and in many cases tried these treatments. They are disappointed but they want the truth above all else. :2cents:
annoyedsas...As I posted earlier, I think most of the winning of the battle against so many illnesses is because of the patients strong will and positive mental outlook. So I also believe that if someone doesn't believe something will work, chances are it wont, but if they do believe it will work, then they've already won half the battle.
My point is, I believe it's the mind that does the healing, no matter what medications you take; traditional or alternative.
So, in your defense here, I have tried to suggest that the negativity displayed by some posters could have been harmful to your recovery because you might start to doubt why you're getting better.
Of course, in their defense, they have a right to say what they like, so I suppose the lesson to be learned here is, find what's working for you and then just do it. Some treatments aren't acceptable to many people for many reasons, but if what you're doing works for you, then just go ahead and have the last laugh.
That's what I think.
The reason you may sense negativity from me is because my mother was ripped off by a quack. I'm sure if she'd survived cancer I'd be shouting the benefits of B17 from the rooftops. She tried traditional methods first and had no result, so she turned to alternatives because the doctors only had palliative medications to offer her. I guess her number was up no matter what. I don't believe there's a 'cure' for cancer either way. I believe there are only treatments, some of which work and some of which don't.
The way the human race lives is cancerous. It's no wonder we're all getting it.
I think it is very sad that you have all brought this subject to such a low, cockfight of a discussion. If someone has anything positive to say about alternative therapies, I will keep an eye out. Meanwhile, UT, Pie, Brianna, xoxoxoBruce, rkzenrage, Aliantha (sorry to tag you in, but you too have some negativity), Happy Monkey - I truely pray none of you get what I have - cancer - and am fiercly fighting and winning I might add.
You have no idea what my situation is and why I feel the way I do. Speak of what you know.
Originally posted by rkzenrage
You have no idea what my situation is and why I feel the way I do. Speak of what you know.
Then why don't you tell us your woes instead of having a go at everyone elses? Someone might be able to help you!
Originally posted by rkzenrage
Then why don't you tell us your woes instead of having a go at everyone elses? Someone might be able to help you!
Looked under the health header lately?
I think it is very sad that you have all brought this subject to such a low, cockfight of a discussion.
...
, Aliantha (sorry to tag you in, but you too have some negativity),
Heh. To stay out of the "low, cockfight" list, you can't have expressed
any doubt in the powers of apricot pits.
The funny thing is that not too long ago this EXACT conversation would have been had over ozinated water, then before that something else.
The one thing that is always missing is the huge groundswell of people who have actually been cured by this, and just this cure writing papers and making documentaries and telling everyone they know that they took a vitamin, shark cartilage, apricot pits or visited the salt springs of the Canadian back woods that it cured them completely and they no longer need doctors... that always seems to be missing. I ask them.. "are you cured or in remission" then the heming and hawing starts... but I never hear it...
Until I hear that... I will keep going to them who have been curing more than the pits and pots.
Coral calcuim, Rife machines... Snakeoil. :crazy:
The worst thing is... always, always, no matter what, no matter how many times, at some point, there is this tiny whisper in the back of my head "may be".
It pisses me off so damn bad... it is sick to do that to people who need hope, who want to be well so bad they will listen to your crap, it is a crime.
Those who do it just do it to feel power over others.
Unless there is definitive proof, absolute proof, you take it/do it and are cured, really cured, shut-up.
Originally posted by rkzenrage
Looked under the health header lately?
There are 25 postings by you in the past three hours on various subjects. As much as I'd love to, I don't seem to have as much time on my hands as you do so I can't read all of them.
Guess I'll never know.
Originally posted by rkzenrage
... that always seems to be missing. I ask them.. "are you cured or in remission" then the heming and hawing starts... but I never hear it...
I don't expect to ever hear those words actually, maybe in 35 years time. As long as I am healthy and happy and doing all the things I want to do, that's ok with me. I'm watching my children grow up and I am LIVING. Sure, everyday I wake up and think, ok another day of supplements and regimens. No I can't eat this or that, but hell, I woke up. Life is a gift.