Disability and Children
Are there any other disabled parents in the cellar?
I have a few questions I would like to ask and issues I would like to discuss.
Things are getting weird, the more pain I am in and the more ill I become, the weirder it gets.:3_eyes:
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I am not disabled but I want to send you good thoughts. You seem to pull on my heart strings.
Simply kids can pick up on things. If they are young they might not know it. If they are older they can be made to understand that dad needs 15 min or whatever.
Without knowing anything of what you mean by issues that seems lame I am sure.
Do you mean that you are disabled or that your child is? Sorry to be dense.
I am disabled.
We were together for 13 years, I never wanted kids and she said the same thing, then an illness I have always had kicked-in and I started getting very ill.
All the sudden she wanted to have a kid. I thought it was odd... six months of therapy later "we" decided to do it and I am happy with my son and life.
Though it is a real challenge, especially now as my condition(s) accelerate.
As this happens and my pain and my future becomes uncertain all we discussed in therapy (just one!) is out the window and she wants to try again... Now that I can help even less!
By all evidence over the last 16 years my wife is an intelligent person, logical and has always looked at the world with logic and clarity.
I think she is losing it.
Don't get me wrong, I love my son, I love my family and the arrangement we have and would not trade him or this for anything.
But, I suspect her reasons... is she trying to "get as much of me" as possible before the inevitable happens?
Is this just some baby-hobby all the sudden.... Grasping at youth, disregarding the reality of our situation? Combination? No one but myself knows about her new desire for "a daughter"... I guess we get to pick... though we will be trying the timed method for how fast the sexed sperm swim. Does help, I understand.
More than anything I feel bad because I won't be able to help at all with the baby this time... I will be left-out and I don't know how to deal with that, and I also know how hard that will be on her as well... a lot of issues.
I also feel very selfish in feeling trepidation for what happens when I have a bad pain day with an infant in the house? Not much help left for me... I feel like a real shit-heel thinking that way.
Well, I don't have much experience with what you're talking about, but I've known disabled people with kids. Just throw your thoughts out there and see what you reel in. Lots of people lurk until they see something that hits home, and you will probably be speaking for more people than you know.
Mainly I just don't understand why she wants another child. It does not make sense.
When I ask I cannot get a straight answer.
There is not such thing as "just" wanting something. There is always a reason for something. I just want a straight answer, a reason.
She may not even know the reason herself. She may just know she wants one.
It sounds like she knows that she will be doing all the work herself. And that you would primarily be there for emotional support. If she is clear headed enough to know everything involved, and she wants to do it anyway, then, what is your objection? Think of it as a gift to her.
Of course, you know your situation better than I do. If there is no money, no space in the house, no free time from her, etc. then you clearly need to make a logical decision as well as an emotional one.
How much are you talking with her about it?
I talk with her about it, but get frustrated with the inability to have a logical discussion. I have asked her to come with me to a therapist, who will act as as a mediator.
She knows I want more than just "I want". She knows how I work.
I also know that she knows and most likely does not want to tell me, or admit to herself the real reason.
All afternoon the line
Think of it as a gift to her.
has really creeped-me-out.
This is a human being not a puppy that I can say "Ok, but you have to feed her and clean-up after her"... this child will be mine too.
I would not want a child as a "gift" to my wife, someone as a tool... that is really sick to me.
A child should be wanted out of love.
This could be someone who's father may die before their teens, perhaps well before.
To do that to someone knowingly seems selfish to me. Especially on some childish whim.
I need to know why she wants to do this. A REASON.
This seems to be a game to many women... it is freaking me out.
You are not the first to say something like the "gift" or "to make her happy" line.
Okay, I'll play jr. pshrink.
I get a strong sense that she's watching your illness progress, and wants a sperm donation while you're still able to provide one. Of course, it's far more complex than that in real life, but I'm sure that's one of the reasons for the sudden rush to conceive.
A gift doesn't have to be an item. It can be an action. A thoughtful gesture. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not saying that human beings are property you can give away.
Deciding to have a kid is not a decision based simply on logic. Logic will always tell you not to have the kid. They are a lot of work and cost a lot of money. There is virtually no logical reason to have a kid.
People have kids for emotional reasons. It's a good idea to throw some logic into the decision making process, so there is some basis in reality. But the decision is primarily emotion driven. I understand your desire for a reason from your wife, but this is the kind of thing that doesn't always have a reason.
I think it's great that you've asked her go with you to your therapist to talk about it. She's the one you need to be talking to about this, and what having a kid will mean.
Okay, I'll play jr. pshrink.
I get a strong sense that she's watching your illness progress, and wants a sperm donation while you're still able to provide one. Of course, it's far more complex than that in real life, but I'm sure that's one of the reasons for the sudden rush to conceive.
Two points, though "altered" our sex life is good.
Secondly, we have a child, a wonderful one.
This is not making sense.
Perhaps she wants a sibling for your son. It would increase the "resources" of the family by 50% if you do pass away. Maybe it's something like "Jr. may not have a father some day, but maybe it would help to have a brother or sister..."
I guess... does not make sense to me. We have discussed all of this already, my illness, the fact that I was an only child and happy with it, she was raised alone by her mother for most of her childhood as was I, no issue there if "something happens to me" in regards to our son.
This is really out of left-field and makes no sense.
What worries me is that she is usually a level-headed person.
Believe it or not, I'm in the exact reverse headspace from you. I'm trying to figure out if I ever want to have children or not -- and I'm looking for an emotional response within myself. If I evaluate it logically, it always works out in favor of childlessness. So I need some sort of desire, some innate wanting -- something that can't be satisfied with what I already have.
Still don't feel it. I've got 4 years to figure it out. :neutral:
Believe it or not, I'm in the exact reverse headspace from you. I'm trying to figure out if I ever want to have children or not -- and I'm looking for an emotional response within myself. If I evaluate it logically, it always works out in favor of childlessness. So I need some sort of desire, some innate wanting -- something that can't be satisfied with what I already have.
Still don't feel it. I've got 4 years to figure it out. :neutral:
For me it was about growing and sharing the love I had with her, having that continue into the world on it's own.
But, this is something different. That is no longer an issue.
rkzenrage, you may get to the point where you have to accept it's strictly emotional on her part and she'll never be able to give you an acceptably logical answer. It's a chick thing. :lol:
I was hoping we were not going to go there... she has been doing a lot of chick stuff lately.
I want my wife and friend of 16 years back, aliens have replaced her with a chick and it is pissing me off!
She was angry about something the other day and when I asked her what it was she said "nothing"!
This won't last long, I can tell you that shit.
Lying and chick games will not stand.
As for accepting pure emotion for the reason, I can do that, but will not make the decision based on it. The answer will be no.
Let's turn this over for a second. Her desire for another child is probably part of her greiving over your health. She wants you but if she's to lose you she wants your child. This is all based on her love for you. It may not be a great idea but it speaks of her depth of feeling for you. I wouldn't write it off as a chick thing.
Ok, again... we have a son, a wonderful son.
She and I have already been through all of this... kids aren't a collectible.
But it is nice to have siblings.
I think with a second (and subsequent) child(ren), parents are more relaxed, more confident and more able to treasure those fleeting moments that make parenting so precious. With the first one, you are nervous, scared, over-protective and stressed about this little life that is totally in your hands. The next time around, things come more naturally and instinctually and it is more joyous time for everyone, in my opinion.
I see the difference between my parenting (3 time mother) and my partner (our 11 month old is his first). He doesn't automatically do the things I do that make parenting so easy, because they are all new to him. I know I have been able to relax and treasure every minute of this baby's development because I am so much more confident and secure in my parenting abilities than I was with my first two.
Maybe your wife truly enjoyed pregnancy, childbirth, raising an infant, making bottles, watching him learn to walk and talk and develop. Possibly she simply wants to experience again, these amazing and beautiful things. Having another child doesn't mean that anyone will be loved any less, it just multiplies a thousand fold the love within the family.
In addition, quite possibly she does want this child in order to have a part of you. She may feel that she would not or could not, ever have a child with someone after you are gone and feels that this is her last chance...ever. Children are our heritage and our future, they are our pride and joy (or sorrow) as they mature into adults.
Have you thought about why you are so dead set against this? You only said that you are worried about a 'bad-pain' day and having a small child in the house. How would a small child make this worse? Children bring us happiness and joy, how could this be a bad thing? Is it possible that you are digging your feet in about this from a purely emotional standpoint as well? Is there some sense of jealousy that you may not be around to raise another child to adulthood? Or that your wife would have to spend some time on the child that you think should be your time? Forgive me if I'm out of line, I'm just wondering and could be totally off base.
I do think having a third party (counselor) help you both sort out your reasonings is a good idea. And as Glatt said, wanting a child is not always totally logical. It can be a yearning, an instinct, and a powerful desire. Usually, if there are good, logical reasons NOT to have one (finances, space, health) then we talk ourselves out of it, but in the absence of those..it's not something that is easily buried.
Just my 2 cents..such as it is.
Stormie
Nice post. You said exactly what I was thinking, but did a much better job of it.
I think with a second (and subsequent) child(ren), parents are more relaxed, more confident and more able to treasure those fleeting moments that make parenting so precious. With the first one, you are nervous, scared, over-protective and stressed about this little life that is totally in your hands. The next time around, things come more naturally and instinctually and it is more joyous time for everyone, in my opinion.
I see the difference between my parenting (3 time mother) and my partner (our 11 month old is his first). He doesn't automatically do the things I do that make parenting so easy, because they are all new to him. I know I have been able to relax and treasure every minute of this baby's development because I am so much more confident and secure in my parenting abilities than I was with my first two.
Maybe your wife truly enjoyed pregnancy, childbirth, raising an infant, making bottles, watching him learn to walk and talk and develop. Possibly she simply wants to experience again, these amazing and beautiful things. Having another child doesn't mean that anyone will be loved any less, it just multiplies a thousand fold the love within the family.
In addition, quite possibly she does want this child in order to have a part of you. She may feel that she would not or could not, ever have a child with someone after you are gone and feels that this is her last chance...ever. Children are our heritage and our future, they are our pride and joy (or sorrow) as they mature into adults.
Have you thought about why you are so dead set against this? You only said that you are worried about a 'bad-pain' day and having a small child in the house. How would a small child make this worse? Children bring us happiness and joy, how could this be a bad thing? Is it possible that you are digging your feet in about this from a purely emotional standpoint as well? Is there some sense of jealousy that you may not be around to raise another child to adulthood? Or that your wife would have to spend some time on the child that you think should be your time? Forgive me if I'm out of line, I'm just wondering and could be totally off base.
I do think having a third party (counselor) help you both sort out your reasonings is a good idea. And as Glatt said, wanting a child is not always totally logical. It can be a yearning, an instinct, and a powerful desire. Usually, if there are good, logical reasons NOT to have one (finances, space, health) then we talk ourselves out of it, but in the absence of those..it's not something that is easily buried.
Just my 2 cents..such as it is.
Stormie
It is not just her who treasured those things, I was the night watchman, who rocked him to sleep. I am still the one who takes care of the boo-boos because of it.
Raising my son has been the greatest joy I have ever known.
Because of the progression of my illness I cannot do the things I did. I will not be able to participate in my own infant's upbringing. I will watch others do it. An unimaginable torture.
Also, all that child will ever know of me is this person wracked by pain.
Finances are also an issue, a large one. Space is not.
I would not make the decision based on taking her away from me, though I would not like it (anyone who says otherwise needs to rethink their marriage or is lying) it is not something I would do.
Taking the joy of parenthood away from me is a HUGE part of it... I have to live every day watching how much I can do with my current son slipping away like golden treasure through frozen hands, no physical pain can compete with watching my father do what is for ME and she wants to do this to me AGAIN! How fucking fun. Why don't I just impregnate her and go ahead and kill myself now?
Hi rkzenrage,
I just registered, primarily to respond to this post. It's difficult trying to phrase the response the way I would like but here we go.
As the patient I think it is easier on us then the spouse to deal with the situation of our declining health and possible (soon?) demise. I spend so much time running to doctors, getting poked, proded and checked, hospital stays and recovery that I don't really have much time to dwell on what is happening. Yes as my health deteriorates I find I have become more emotional and react oddly to situations that never would have phased me before but I truly believe our spouse or SO is dealing with the brunt of it. They are the ones that will have to carry on after, they are the ones that have to wait for the word from the doctor on wether you survived the surgery or not, it must be brutal from their side.
With two young children at home and a wife that is a stay at home mom I can sympathize with how she feels but I can't relate to it. I know she needs me to stay around and I know it is out of my hands. I believe that part of the reason your wife wants another child is from the belief that additional obligations will make you stay around longer. If you have another child why would you leave? It isn't a logical reaction and I doubt she really understands it. It is however something she can have control over and she is most likely desperate for that control at this point.
Hope this helps some at least.
It does help, and thanks.
I am sorry I lashed out everyone. I am on a lot of meds right now and in a lot of pain, not just from my condition, but I just had sinus surgery and am recovering... dealing with this on top of it.
Again. I apologize.
This is not an excuse, it is a reason, I was wrong for my behavior.
Speaking of a "chick thing", LOTS of chicks want that perfect American family - a boy and a girl. I did, and having that dream come true was the greatest thing of my life. And having her two children that she...well...just wants for whatever reason is what she wants! Like when she knew she wanted you for the rest of her life...she just knew...
And right after submitting that post, I thought about how painful your reasons for not wanting the same thing she does. Damn...is there any way at all you could make the experience as great as having your son even though you're so limited psychically? That must sound so lame, I don't have a clue, I just wish it could be okay for you to be as involved as possible emotionally. This has got to be a damn tough thing for you.
It is, because I am really feeling like a selfish ass too. At the same time, isn't it my job to be there for my child? I'm thinking of having one knowing that is not going to happen.... what kind of father does that?
Talked with the therapist today... basically all the same stuff as here. I hope she can come with me soon.
I really feel for you Rkzenrage. I didn't intend to diminish your position or feelings on the matter, was merely trying to help explain the possible reasons for your wife's desire. I hope you two are able to find a reasonable solution.
Stormie
I do too.
I love her and my son more than you can imagine.
Leaving another, putting another through watching me go through this then leave them early is unfathomable for me.
Why would she want to do that?
Just thought I'd add the idea that we all are at risk of loss by being alive; hostages to mortality.
No parent can gaurantee how long they will "be there" for their children: my father died of liver cancer when he was 58. I'll be 54 this month.
Every child eventually suffers the loss of his parents...unless they suffer the loss of a child first. Which is more tragic?
I have two daughters (18 and 23), and I do wish now that we had had the courage to start them a bit sooner. The 23-yo said to me the other day, to explain why she only drinks skim milk: "I want to live to see my grandchildren". This may be her way of expressing her anger that she never really knew my father, or my ex's parents. (My mom is unfortunately no prize to know these days, but that's another story.)
rkenrage, you may be in much worse health than I. Certainly my current lifepartner, despite being ten years younger than I, is in much worse health than I (heart problems, obesity, thyroid disease).
But who among us knows what time we have left? I could end up under a semi on the way home tonight, or suffer an unrecoverable mechanical failure (or more likely, a simple brain fart) some day while flying.
My ex and I used to have a saying: "Rasing children is the only game for grownups"...a paraphrase of Heinlein's description of politics. Is the fact that you may get sent to the showers early a reason not to play?
It is about what is known and what one can reasonably expect... but you know that.
I suspect there is a secondary reason for that post. Are you trying to convince yourself of something?
I mean that in the best way, BTW.
I've not responded to this thread before, but am following it with interest and a lot of sympathy. I don't have a parental bone in my body so I don't know where either of you are coming from and perhaps have no right to comment, but as a rank outsider here are some thoughts:
Some of your posts, RK, seem full of rage at the unfairness of your situation and how your illness impacts on you, your wife and your child(ren). It's your rage, and some of your "reasoning" against having another child seem as emotionally driven to me as your wife's desire for another child must seem to you.
You seem determined to be a good parent within the bounds of what's possible for you, which is as good as any child can hope for, and far far better than most children get.
Is it so very bad that your wife may want "another piece of you" if she is aware that you won't be around for as long as she'd like?
As a child grows, what it grows up with is "normal", so your boy, and any future child won't be making comparisons with anything, they'll simply know you as the kind and loving Dad you seem determined to be. Good on ya!
As far as I can see, choosing to have a child is never a logical decision, choosing not to can be driven by logic or emotion. You seem to be using logic to clothe your emotional response to this situation.
It is about what is known and what one can reasonably expect... but you know that.
I suspect there is a secondary reason for that post. Are you trying to convince yourself of something?
I mean that in the best way, BTW.
Gee...I was wondering the same thing about you, but had decided not to prod you about it. :-)
Well...Dad's birthday was the 12th, so that's got both "loss of parents" and a sense of my own mortality fresh in my mind. Also, I broke up with my ex about ten years ago after being married for 23 years, so the "absent parent" issue is very present there too. Even if I'd known the marriage was going to end, I don't think I'd have elected to not have the kids.
I've been thinking about this for awhile, and I don't feel like I can really have an objective opinion on the situation from your perspective, rk. But perhaps you might consider it from this angle: how many people who have lost a parent at a young age sincerely wish they had never been born?
My father's mother passed away when he was twelve, and he has told me that it was the saddest day of his life. But he has also told me that he was intensely grateful for everything she did give him while she was alive, and that he considers her his biggest role model. He has always strived to live up to her memory, not blamed her for bringing him into the world. He has also said that knowing his brothers were going through the same thing he was brought them all closer, and made him feel like he wasn't struggling alone.
Gee...I was wondering the same thing about you, but had decided not to prod you about it. :-)
Well...Dad's birthday was the 12th, so that's got both "loss of parents" and a sense of my own mortality fresh in my mind. Also, I broke up with my ex about ten years ago after being married for 23 years, so the "absent parent" issue is very present there too. Even if I'd known the marriage was going to end, I don't think I'd have elected to not have the kids.
Divorce is not exactly what I am talking about... a divorced father gets to see their kids and be in their life as much as they want within the law and as long as their spouse is a decent person.
Gee...I was wondering the same thing about you, but had decided not to prod you about it. :-)
Well...Dad's birthday was the 12th, so that's got both "loss of parents" and a sense of my own mortality fresh in my mind. Also, I broke up with my ex about ten years ago after being married for 23 years, so the "absent parent" issue is very present there too. Even if I'd known the marriage was going to end, I don't think I'd have elected to not have the kids.
Divorce is not exactly what I am talking about... a divorced father gets to see their kids and be in their life as much as they want within the law and as long as their spouse is a decent person.
I've been thinking about this for awhile, and I don't feel like I can really have an objective opinion on the situation from your perspective, rk. But perhaps you might consider it from this angle: how many people who have lost a parent at a young age sincerely wish they had never been born?
My father's mother passed away when he was twelve, and he has told me that it was the saddest day of his life. But he has also told me that he was intensely grateful for everything she did give him while she was alive, and that he considers her his biggest role model. He has always strived to live up to her memory, not blamed her for bringing him into the world. He has also said that knowing his brothers were going through the same thing he was brought them all closer, and made him feel like he wasn't struggling alone.
That kind of hindsight does not apply. We often say that we would not change negative things in our life because of what we learned from them.
It is the adopted kid syndrome... we do not question what we do not know.
My job as a parent/potential parent is to make the decision.
Divorce is not exactly what I am talking about...
I know...but you asked what was up on my end. That's my story.
Maybe your wife has looked ahead and decided she wants a family of three rather than two?
It is, because I am really feeling like a selfish ass too. At the same time, isn't it my job to be there for my child? I'm thinking of having one knowing that is not going to happen.... what kind of father does that?
No, your job is to provide for the child as best you can. Being there, the fun part, is your desire rather than obligation.:2cents:
We had a long talk yesterday... a very good one.
Though we are still going to have one with the mediator, I feel much better about it and where she is coming from.
Though she may have "thought up" what she came-up with knowing how I am and what I need or if it is true does not matter... I feel better about it.
Talking with your wife is the best thing you can do about this, as you know. In the end it doesn't matter a jot what all the cellarites make of your situation ...
Until now she wasn't really talking to me... she was talking at me. I needed a sounding board.