Soldier Funeral Protest

This is just wrong no matter what side you are on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G470rfJQCI

I'm really surprised Roper hasn't been hurt by now. :headshake

The person interviewed, in the link you provided, is just plain nuts (i.e. brainwashed beyond redemption) and doesn't pose any real threat. Forget about that one.

Some others who engage in disrupting funerals are Stockholm Syndrome victims. They are sick. War (generally) and terrorism (especially) scares them so badly that they will engage in any conduct, including psychologically aiding and abetting the enemy, which they believe may somehow eventually save their own skins.

Many of those who engage in this untoward behavior believe that if they deny the fallen soldiers a hero's funeral; or, martyrdom, they will suceed in discouraging others from fighting for a cause. They are misguided, they are out of date, war is no longer glamorous to us as it is to our enemy. Studies show that soldiers fight and sacrifice their lives for other reasons.

Some seek retaliation against those whom they think are responsible for their own life's difficulties. They are cowards. They know the dead soldiers can no longer speak for themselves.

When the going gets tough, the tough get going; but, the weak get brainwashed, sick, misguided, and cowardly. We probably have more weak willed citizens now than at anytime in our history. The rest of us just have to pass new laws to contain them as they find new ways to disgust us. Those who are conscientious objectors and reputable citizens will find more respectable ways to make their positions known.

This is a very straightforward con. All the religious crap is window dressing. They protest any event where they can antagonize someone into physically hitting them. Then they sue. Their group is alway juggling several lawsuits at the same time, and this is how they make their money. Wouldn't be surprised if they were actually all Roma

This is not a con. And it's not about the military. The Westboro Baptist Church, led by Fred Phelps is a pseudo-religious anti-gay basketcase.

They've been picketing the funerals of gays since 1998. Doesn't matter what walk of life you come from, if you are gay, you are a target for their hatred.
They run a website based on the notion that 'God Hates Fags'. Gay-bashing seems to be their whole lives.How sad. If there is a God, I can't imagine that he'd be as intolerant and lacking in human decency as these whackos.

billybob wrote:

This is not a con. And it's not about the military. The Westboro Baptist Church, led by Fred Phelps is a pseudo-religious anti-gay basketcase.

They've been picketing the funerals of gays since 1998. Doesn't matter what walk of life you come from, if you are gay, you are a target for their hatred.
They run a website based on the notion that 'God Hates Fags'. Gay-bashing seems to be their whole lives.How sad. If there is a God, I can't imagine that he'd be as intolerant and lacking in human decency as these whackos.

Um, sorry, but yeah, it is a congame, and a fairly lucrative one. They are all performers, and they play their parts very effectively. What they do is horrible, of course, but it is not real in the sense that they actually believe the stuff they spew. They are just in it for the money.

Hey Fred, good to know.

coming from lawrence kansas.. a scant 24 miles from phelps.. gotta tell you these whack jobs do more than protest at funerals, they hit anything and everything they don't like or consider to be morally right, I don't know how many plays and music events they have been at, the thing is that it's not a con as far as I can tell, although it is awfully lucrative. and for the record they have been at it longer than '98 that's just when they started getting more national attention for it, and the thing that actually bothers me... (well, the whole thing that bothers me) they protested a friend of mines funeral back in 92' when he died of aids, and have been at it ever since, but it got no real press until phelpsco. started picketing the war dead, and yes it's bullshit. but it's not like this is something new.. gotta say though one of these days someone is going to take his sick ass out.. (heh, I've known a couple of pissed off lesbians who have actually tried to run him over, and afterwards if you'll notice he started shielding himself behind children.. sick fuck) then again it'll put him into some sort of martyr situation. oh and by the by if you're in Kansas and are of the crafty persuasion, hate to say it.. but hobby lobby is a huge financial suporter of the westboro baptist church, may not really make any difference.. but they don't get my money anymore.

Well said, NoBoxes. There are persons of that weakness of will here in the Cellar, trying as best they might to persuade the rest of us that their weakness is the path of virtue. They've felt the lash of my displeasure more than once, and they shall continue to suffer until they get their minds right, and there's no more failure to communicate. Or until they depart, taking their noxious, antifreedom, antihuman, pro-oppressor attitudes with them.

In a war, it's dead enemies that saves your skin.

I just hope you don't depart as you're always good for a laugh. It relieves the tension of serious discussions. :lol:

that bitch needs to be serious sodemised

One of these uglies just showed up on tonight's Hannity & Colmes. Within two sentences out of her mouth I was yelling at the television screen. What a devil's spawn.

Now if a couple of their heads were split open with halberds next time they pull one of their pro-fascist demonstrations they might adopt the path of wisdom instead of the hellroad they currently are speeding along.

killing a few of them would certainly make them think twice about whether what they are doing is right or not. they say people dying is what god planned. send them a message that god wants them dead

cowhead wrote:

by if you're in Kansas and are of the crafty persuasion, hate to say it.. but hobby lobby is a huge financial suporter of the westboro baptist church, may not really make any difference.. but they don't get my money anymore.

Well, someone should hold up a 'sponsored by' sign at the next one of his tirades and let them get the credit they deserve.

As a pacifist who was not always this way these kind of things have an odd effect on me.
I feel pity and love for them.
However, there is still the ghost of the "old me" rattling its cage as he is still in there, and I deal with him at my leisure. I am at that point on my Path and it took me a long time. My impulse not is compassion, not my old impulse and then damage control... usually, of course, I am working, it is a path. But, I digress.
Conversing with my older self on this and I laughed a lot, made several unsettling points.

killing a few of them would certainly make them think twice about whether what they are doing is right or not. they say people dying is what god planned. send them a message that god wants them dead

No, it would martyr them and create an extremely violent, terrorist right-wing fanatic, anti-gay movement. Something that is brewing now, this would be the perfect match on the fuse.

This is a very straightforward con. All the religious crap is window dressing. They protest any event where they can antagonize someone into physically hitting them. Then they sue. Their group is alway juggling several lawsuits at the same time, and this is how they make their money. Wouldn't be surprised if they were actually all Roma

Why would someone hit them.... a couple of tennis-balls, some PVC, duct tape, a drill and a decent 303 and they would never hear the shot coming from a quarter of a mile away at best... with the tennis-ball silencer you could do it from the Chuch parking-lot and no one would hear it. Just take one out at each event... not a slaughter to start the martyr syndrome.
Just one... each time. Sometimes wounding one in a terrible place, take their voice, ability to walk, see... something good. Then, leave a note on the spot a week later, something cryptic like "You should have started with King James" and a rainbow bullet.
Ohhhh.... now you got me wanting to write a new screenplay and I can't finish the one I'm working on now.

Every now and again you buy them pizza or something to drink while they are waiting ... like it is from a fan... then, rig it so the rainbow bullet shows up after they partake for a while.... aaaarrrrgggghhhh must stopppppp

Pretty clever, though I think perhaps too clever for them. Their doublethink won't allow them to get the message.

Though turning pranks of this kind into media events would allow the rest of the populace to get the message and resist their... blandishments... even more effectually.

I can't be a pacifist: I concluded a long time ago that that philosophy is distinguished by its remarkable unsustainability. When under lethal attack, either the pacifist or the pacifism must die. No other philosophy of life has that liability. Peaceableness, on the other hand, is both good and sustainable; I respect it and try to practice it. I'm not going to make peace and human life the highest thing in my value system -- not when I can place human goodness over these as an even better thing.

I leave to your imagination (and mine) to fill in the outlines of the statement that there are worse things out there than even war.

Being a pacifist does not preclude self defense. But, only as a last resort.
Treat others exactly how you want to be treated in the same situation.

Leonard Pitts hits Phred nail squarely on the head

the dude is so obviously a self-loathing latent -- ignore all irrelevant behaviour.

That is what I call peaceableness, then -- not full-on pacifism.

It's good in civil situations -- in warfare, contrariwise, you're trying to get the other guys tired of fighting, or too exhausted in materiel or spirit to continue it.

cowhead;229755 wrote:

oh and by the by if you're in Kansas and are of the crafty persuasion, hate to say it.. but hobby lobby is a huge financial suporter of the westboro baptist church, may not really make any difference.. but they don't get my money anymore.

Thanks for this post. I've been trying to find any viable, credible information in print or online that verifies this allegation. I really want to know whether or not this is true or if it's just rumor. If it is, I will definitely stop shopping there. The Phelps clan protested the funeral of my best friend of 10 years who died in Iraq, and I must say my feelings against them are extremely personal. I do know, regarding Hobby Lobby, that its founder and CEO is David Green, who is a member of Assemblies of God and donates & contributes lots of money to them.

http://www.hobbylobby.com/our_company/our_company.cfm?page=2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_Lobby

Many of the organizations there are affiliated or run by Assemblies of God. Although I definitely do not align myself with the beliefs and practices of this church, this affiliation is less important to me than the alleged Phelps affiliation. In another rumor, I have heard that the Phelps' family lawfirm, Phelps Chartered, is Hobby Lobby's attorney on retainer. So I'm not sure what's true, if any of it.

Can anyone provide some sort of credible citations confirming that Hobby Lobby is indeed associated with the Phelps family or the Westboro Baptist Church? Thanks!

claudmc;510111 wrote:

Thanks for this post. I've been trying to find any viable, credible information in print or online that verifies this allegation. I really want to know whether or not this is true or if it's just rumor. If it is, I will definitely stop shopping there. The Phelps clan protested the funeral of my best friend of 10 years who died in Iraq, and I must say my feelings against them are extremely personal. I do know, regarding Hobby Lobby, that its founder and CEO is David Green, who is a member of Assemblies of God and donates & contributes lots of money to them.

http://www.hobbylobby.com/our_company/our_company.cfm?page=2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_Lobby

Many of the organizations there are affiliated or run by Assemblies of God. Although I definitely do not align myself with the beliefs and practices of this church, this affiliation is less important to me than the alleged Phelps affiliation. In another rumor, I have heard that the Phelps' family lawfirm, Phelps Chartered, is Hobby Lobby's attorney on retainer. So I'm not sure what's true, if any of it.

Can anyone provide some sort of credible citations confirming that Hobby Lobby is indeed associated with the Phelps family or the Westboro Baptist Church? Thanks!

On a related issue, I am a member of this organization:

http://www.patriotguard.org/OurHistory/tabid/145/Default.aspx

Welcome to the Cellar, Claud, nice to have you on board:)

I can't imagine how difficult it must be for people when the funerals of their loved ones are disrupted in this disgusting and callous way. To intrude on something so private, so individual, is utterly shameful. We only get to bury our dead once and how it's done can have a profound impact upon the grieving process.

I don't know how practical it wold be, and am very uncomfortable about anything which could potentially limit general rights to protest, but i think there's an argument to be had for wide exclusion zones around cemetaries and crematoriums. Nobody, regardless of the circumstances of their loved one's death should have to experience that.

billybob;229632 wrote:

This is not a con. And it's not about the military. The Westboro Baptist Church, led by Fred Phelps is a pseudo-religious anti-gay basketcase.

Fred Phelps is a useless piece of human trash, parading about the image of crucified savior for his own immoral and incontrovertably sick purposes. Fred and his acolytes should fall into the nearest crack in the Earth that leads directly to the fires of Hell, their ultimate undeniable destination.

If Jesus came back to Earth, Fred and his clan would be first ones he would walk up to and smack across the gobs.