Anger Over Mohammed Cartoon
Well now I'm thinking that maybe the whole culture takes itself a bit too seriously. There's been a lot of
ruckus in Europe recently over a cartoon picturing Mohammed. Have these guys never seen the zillion and one Jesus cartoons or God cartoons? Have none of them seen "The Life of Brian"?
These guys need to take a tip from another cartoon: "Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow permanent."
Now I understand. They're not angry because it's blasphemous. They're angry because it's too close to the truth.
I'm willing to bet that over 99% of the people protesting the cartoon haven't even seen it. Since it's blasphemy to print it, no Arab paper has run it.
Can you blaspheme in someone else's language/religious tradition?
I do see it as blasphemous. The writing is pretty clear that depictions of the Prophet are viewed as idolatry. It is also clear that it is very insulting. That's an incindiary combination.
However--it is the reaction to such provocations that counts more than anything.
Righteous indignation? Perfectly justified. Killing and burning, wreaking havoc against uninvolved third parties? Perfectly hypocritical. "Justifying" by inventing some causal relationship between a dairy conglomerate and the author of the cartoon based on nationality? An excuse for hooliganism.
There is some level of insult to me or those dear to me at which I will respond. Depending on the insult and how stirred up I am at the time, I can easily envision a violent reaction. Who here could not? In these times, the Muslim world it very stirred up--the air is saturated with an attitude of persecution. And this is a very grave insult. The reactions are predictable.
But it is a cartoon. It is not a crime against a person. It is pictures and words. It is not violence. It is an invitation to a fight, but it doesn't have to be an excuse for a fight.
It is evidence of intolerance and hypocrisy. And both sides are showing their intolerance and hypocrisy to maximum effect.
I'm willing to bet that over 99% of the people protesting the cartoon haven't even seen it. Since it's blasphemy to print it, no Arab paper has run it.
Are you suggesting that Muslims don't read papers that aren't printed by Arabs? I doubt it. Obviously there's no way to verify your numbers, but I disagree with your point that most haven't seen it because it wouldn't be printed by "Arab papers."
Can you blaspheme in someone else's language/religious tradition?
... The reactions are predictable.
A newspaper in Jordan tried to reprint the comics to show logical thinkers what this hype was about. The editor was made redundant and the entire publication withdrawn before anyone could read it. Why? Logically, everyone should read and understand the most important detail - actual comic strip. But logic does not apply. This is about religion - imposed upon how all others must think. We cannot see that comic because we must be protected. Nonsense. But then this contraversy is not about logic. It is all about the emotions so attached to religion.
Meanwhile, the original purpose of that comic strip was not to insult and disparage anyone. Its original intent was to demonstrate the concepts and conflicts in people's interpretations of Islam. Whether this is true, I cannot say. I don't have the best evidence - the actual comics.
Are you suggesting that Muslims don't read papers that aren't printed by Arabs? I doubt it. Obviously there's no way to verify your numbers, but I disagree with your point that most haven't seen it because it wouldn't be printed by "Arab papers."
As far as I can tell from the articles on the net, the 12 'toons have only been published in one Danish and one french, papers. If that's true then Glatt's 99% is valid and probably conservative. :thumb2:
The publisher of the French paper fired the editor who printed them.
Glatt's number is too low, because it would be blasphemous for them to actually look at the cartoons.
Brit muslims respond.
A Kuwaiti paper ran them, the editor was fired, he defended his decision. The BBC published a couple to contextualize the story, a German paper than them in a confrontational way. I got fucking angry at for British foreign minister Jack Straw today, I'm sorry fuckwit but freedom of speech is freedom to offend, to insult, the freedom to anger, to piss people off without fearing having your throat fucking slit in the street. You cannot have one without the other. This ridiculous kow-towing is sickening. Today Muslim protesters were holding up signs like 'Europe: Remember 9/11' and 'another 7/7'. They should have been arrested under the same hatred legislation used against the BNP leaders, where they? No. It's bullshit. Good on the papers that had the balls to exercise our rights before the fascists take them away in the same of freedom from being offended.
edit: UT has good examples but some were worse. And they were chanting Osama Bin Laden.
I feel kinda silly asking this since I haven't actually done this myself, but...
...has anyone actually spoken to a Muslim they know about the cartoons? Not having seen or heard of protests taking place in the US, I'd like to talk to someone who isn't holding a sign and marching. I mean, damn, they're cartoons.
The United States condemned the cartoons on Friday, siding with Muslims who are outraged that newspapers put press freedom over respect for religion.
Figures. Leave it to the US to state that the press needs to be silenced so that religious groups don't see something that might upset them.
I'm sorry fuckwit but freedom of speech is freedom to offend, to insult, the freedom to anger
Today Muslim protesters were holding up signs like 'Europe: Remember 9/11' and 'another 7/7'. They should have been arrested under the same hatred legislation used against the BNP leaders
Uh...
A good mate of mine is a quite devout muslim with his head screwed on right, I'll be interested to see how he feels.
Leave it to the US to state that the press needs to be silenced so that religious groups don't see something that might upset them.
Consistancy. :rolleyes:
Report back, Jag.....please.
Kitsune - sorry, I didn't clearly differentiate the issues, the legislation should be struck down but while it is there it should be equally and fairly applied.
Kitsune - sorry, I didn't clearly differentiate the issues, the legislation should be struck down but while it is there it should be equally and fairly applied.
Oh, buh. My brain isn't firing on all three cylinders today. The pouring rain has me sleepy.
Seconded. Please report back to us! I only have a chance to chat with Muslims on campus while taking classes. I don't know any outside that environment and I'm taking anything this semester.
Here come the Mohammads! via
BoingBoing
Why wasn't there a huge uproar over the South Park episode? Or a cartoon Mohammad being decapitated on a Spike TV show?
I have known quite a few followers of Islam in my life,(driving a taxi in SoCal) and 75% of them I would not turn my back on. As for the rest except for the way they treated their women they were decent people, my signed copy of The Satinic Verses was Given to me by Mohammed Cherazad, an Iranian I was working for. Farad "tony" Frozhish Told me that when dealing with muslims you need to be careful. They are offended by what we consider nothing. I think they need to grow up. There are no visible middle eastern muslims in beautiful La Crosse on the river, since 911.
When will Westerners get it through their heads that everything we do or don't do is offensive to Islam? Absolutely EVERYTHING! And double the fault if a woman happens to do it. You CANNOT please them or molify them. As far as they are concerned, you are only acceptable when you convert and are absorbed into the Borg :neutral:
I'm sorry but people that easy to offend are just too easy to pass up. I say we turn it up a notch and see how far we can push them before all their heads explode.
Hey, maybe we can set up a posthumous Robert Mapplethorpe photography exhibit at the Guggenheim of mason jars half full of urine with a Quor'an peacefully soaking in each one. Then, we can send seruptitiously taken footage to al Jazeera and wait for the fireworks.
WooHoo! Who needs cow-tipping?!?!
:lol: :stickpoke :lol:
WooHoo! Who needs cow-tipping?!?!
now theres a t-shirt !!!!!!!
If they don't like it screwmm, people make fun of my beliefs all the time, and I laff at some of the cartoons and jokes. These mohammedens need to get real.
Here come the Mohammads! via BoingBoing
Why wasn't there a huge uproar over the South Park episode? Or a cartoon Mohammad being decapitated on a Spike TV show?
They're sorting through the countries to see which ones will cave in. France has, Briton has not, Spain has, The US has not, etc, etc.......
There are no visible middle eastern muslims in beautiful La Crosse on the river, since 911.
It's not the visible ones that worry me. ;)
Oooooooo! I'm in troooouble! :worried:
My contribution. I'll be buying Jarlsberg cheese (heard the muslims were going to stop buying that because Norwegians are so horrible) at the store tomorrow to show my support.
I still can't figure out why these nutters haven't been up in arms that all women aren't covered up from head to toe. Aren't we being blasphemous by not doing that? Or do they just need a reason to push their ideas onto others?
The sad fact of the matter is that Islam does not forbid (nor did Mohammed in his day) the depiction of icons in non-religious contexts. But, tell that to one-hundred thousand ignorant, uneducated, sun-baked cretins and all you'll get is a number. A number somewhere between the number drawn by the duped Muslim virgin scheduled to be caned for being screwed by a Muslim male who gets enthusiastic high-fives while his notch gets blood-soaked cane whips and the number fate deals to a foreign journalist scheduled to have his head lopped off for catching the wrong cab.
A religion of peace? More like a religion of blood and body parts. I openly scoff at this preemptive simulation proffered by Islam to disguise its core dependence on conflict. And while enlightened Muslims silently loathe their headline-hogging, primordial brethren, their vocal cords are stretched to the breaking point the minute a non-Muslim probe explores the nerve leading to the internal paradox upon which their piety rests.
I have no desire to disentangle the Gordian knot Islamic fundamentalism created to sustain itself by manufacturing offenses designed to substantiate a characterization of non-pious Muslims as Infidels. Without Infidels, fundamentalist Islam has no basis so it becomes imperative to create a perpetual supply of them. While Zion has served quite nicely as the requisite straw man in this epistemological closed loop, fundamentalist Islam is spreading its wings and is feasting on the unlimited Infidelistic potential of America and its co-conspiritors.
Seizing on this, Imams in Madrassahs and Mosques across the Quo'ran belt and in the belly of the beast itself (right here in DC for example) can't demonize the West enough. In so doing, otherwise nonexistent lines of distinction between pious Muslims and Infidels are created and clarified in terms the ignorant masses can internalize. Creating a synthetic enemy justifies Islam. The absence of an enemy would lead to the downfall of Islam since its very existence is based upon identifying and eventually terminating Infidels.
All I can say at this point is that the only defense available to the Western World against the unbridled rage fueling the Islamic furnace of hate is to starve them economically.
What I think a lot of legislators overlook is that peace is, by implication, detrimental to the continuity of Islam. Islam whips itself into a frenzy in reaction to the cartoon (even though it violates no Islamic tenant) because it adds to the inventory of Infidels to hate. And hate is the mother's milk of Islam
And the more the West kisses Islam's behind, the more determined Islam becomes to reject the overture since accepting the gesture requires Islam to poison the very well from which it drinks.
No infidels. No Islam. I say we give them what they want - a reason to exist. If Islam is slow to forgive this, IMHO, is why. It is not possible to make peace with someone who's very existence depends on the absence of peace.
So be it.
Not unlike the instantaneous credibility afforded to the hillbilly who won the Powerball lottery, Islamofascism enjoys a spotlight and an undeserved seat at the world's table by virtue of geological blind luck. But, the liquid luck sustaining this undeserved celebrity privilege is finite.
So, the world has to deal with these bozos until their subterranean trust fund runs dry. History will acknowledge in a footnote how they bought their way into civilization's timeline as well as their pending return to the barren patch of parched earth that serves as an appropriate metaphor for what they contributed to it.
C'mon Beestie, don't hold back. Tell us what you really think of them. :notworthy
If this isn't 'threatening behavious toward a group' I don't know what is. This is obvious grounds for arrest under UK law, the fact it was allowed to continue is evidence of blatant racism of the UK Police.
These people just can't take a joke. Really. They worry me.
Belmont Club has some amazing analysis going in the last few days of posts.
...many Europeans -- not most, but many -- are suddenly aware they stand on the edge. If they let Islamic clerics determine what Europeans can and cannot print in their own press through a process of intimidation and force, the Old Continent will have surrendered a large part of its independence and sovereignty. The holy grail of every agitator is to find an issue on which both sides are unalterably opposed. Radical Islam has found it the blasphemy of Mohammed and ironically gave those who would rouse the West a mirror issue of their own: the blasphemy of censorship and the extinction of freedom of speech.
Both sides now are in too deep to climb down without damage.
I really have a problem with the attitude of 'How dare you imply that Mohammed is not a prophet of peace. For this we must kill you.'
It would be funny if it weren't so deadly serious.
All I can say at this point is that the only defense available to the Western World against the unbridled rage fueling the Islamic furnace of hate is to starve them economically.
To rise to power, Nazis attacked the intelligencia and merchant classes so as to empower the naive. How did Milosevic inspire racial hate in the Balkans? Rush Limbaugh types currently do the same thing in America. Just because a propaganda technique is working, you would disparage all 1930s Germans and all 2000s Americans? Of course not.
Not all Islamic people are so narrow minded. And yet you would punish all for sins of the naive? That is a 'sure fire' formula to promote hate and war. Same trick used by Sharon to restart the intafada.
Take apart this controversy with a scalpel rather than painting all with a broad brush. First, some of those comics are really lame. They deserve 'censure' by art critics. Second, seek common ground to defuse tensions. Except for one comic, the whole bunch is pathetic nonsense - no humor, no insight, no redeeming value.
Meanwhile, simply ignore Rush Limbaughs of the Islamic world so they will vaporize. Worrying about such extremists only empower those extremists at the expense of intelligent Muslims. Where is my criticism? At those comics that are not funny even to those with infantile humor.
Those comics should have been condemned by comic critics. Now we have people getting emotional over really bad art.
Remember an exhibit by Chris Ofili in Brooklyn featuring a Virgin Mary painted in elephant dung? Once we ignored it, the problem quickly disseminated.
Those comics are much to do about nothing. Too many people are paying attention to something that will disappear if simply ignored. It exists only due to Rush Limbaugh type hate.
Belmont again:
Like the politicians of the 1930s, the leaders of the West after September 11 each made their own calculation. In America's case it took the shape of thinking that it could make common cause with the most enlightened elements of Islamic civilization against fundamentalist extremists who were vying for Islam's soul. The strategy for achieving this goal, though reviled as simplistic, was anything but: America would not pick a fight with Islam itself. Rather it would make itself Islam's friend, ally with its most moderate elements, overthrow its worst oppressors and enlist the aid of the Muslim everyman against the Osama Bin Ladens of the world. In practice it would build a web of relationships with intelligence services, soldiers, intellectuals and politicians in Islamic countries who would provide the information and in cases the manpower to hunt down fundamentalist villains. The War on Terror would be to wars what Smart Bombs were to bombs. It would destroy the miscreants while leaving the surrounding structure untouched. It may be that Europe's calculation was more cynical. But it was equally sophisticated. It would pursue a policy of Appeasement which like Chamberlain's was calculated to drive one nuisance against another, pitting America against Islamic fundamentalism in the hopes that one would wear the other out. And the key to Europe's establishing its bona fides with Islamic countries was to make nice at every opportunity; avoid giving offense; be lavish with aid; open to immigration and obstructive to America at every turn. Like the appeasers of the 1930s it paid for its diplomatic strategy by systematically weakening itself.
Syrians burn the Danish embassy.
Where are the protestors in America? Why is this anger only taking place in a few select countries?
Belmont makes the mistake of thinking of Europe as one country. Might seem that ways from the other side of the pond but the situation in France is very different to the UK which is very different to Denmark, all of whom have different agendas and strategies.
Yes, I would also like to point out that the Muslims are to Europe as Mexico is to the US. Many European nations depend upon the supply of cheap foreign labor coming in the form of workers from Turkey and other Muslim countries. Europe is no more appeasing the Muslims then we are appeasing wetbacks. Going by Belmont's logic, one could say that the US is wimping out to illegal immigrants from south of the border while Europe has taken a strict stance as proved by the fact that hardly any illegal Mexican workers show up there. And Jag is correct. Each country of Europe has its own policy and reasons. The UK allows in Pakistani's and Indians because these countries were once part of the British Colonial Empire, not out of some desire to appease the Muslim world. Switzerland allows in Turkish foreign workers simply because so few Swiss are willing to do the low paid labor intensive jobs commonly performed by the Turks. I was visiting one of my aunts in Switzerland once when a group of Turks came into our compartment on Swissrail as we were traveling from Zurich to Luzerne. My aunt made no effort to hide her contempt. While I do not applaud my aunt's open prejudice, it was hardly an attitude of appeasement.
Mari, that's a fairly good comparison. The difference, of course, is that fundamental structure of the immigrant culture isn't all that differnet than ours. The collonial roots run deep in each, we share common religious roots, and by and large the same rational, western worldview.
Contrasting with Europe, where almost none of those things hold true between the Old Europe and the new immigrants.
true, but that doesn't have much to do with the belmont argument.
Precisely, SM! Imagine if Mexico and the rest of South America were Muslim countries! I think what we would call "appeasement" by Europe, might take on the very same flavor here.
There are many in this country - especially the religous right - who do NOT consider that the people of Mexico have much in common with the US. They are mostly Catholic, speak a foreign tongue, and have different cultural traditions, etc.
I will agree that the Mexican immigrant to the US is probably more easily culturally assimilated than the Turkish immigrant to Switzerland, however. ;)
Mari, I don't know how you manage to wrap up every group you dislike into the nefarious "Religious Right". As far as I know, they don't have much of a position on illegal immigration.
Not all Islamic people are so narrow minded. And yet you would punish all for sins of the naive?
Most of us only know/see the ones in the news, like the ones in the pictures in this thread. That's because the ones who don't approve or agree with the protesters are very silent. That dosen't leave us anyone to point at other than the bad guys. There isn't two groups standing up so we can say, ok, these are good muslims and those are bad ones. We'd have to make the assumption that the non-protesters don't agree with the protesters, and we know that's not necessarily true.
The sales of that Danish dairy went from several hundred million dollars a year to zero in five days. I'd bet it was a matter of peer pressure, maybe even thugs at the market, that caused that rapid decline. But how do we prove that? How do we prove any muslims don't agree with the protest when they are very silent?
Take apart this controversy with a scalpel rather than painting all with a broad brush. First, some of those comics are really lame. They deserve 'censure' by art critics.
As I understand it, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, the "cartoons" were a smartass reply to the guy at the newspaper that decried the lack of response to his request for someone(s) to illustrate his book.
I don't believe they were meant to be cartoons, like we know them, neither funny, political or otherwise. But I could be wrong.:dunce:
Mari, I don't know how you manage to wrap up every group you dislike into the nefarious "Religious Right". As far as I know, they don't have much of a position on illegal immigration.
Actually, they do. Folks from south of the border are hopelessly entangled with that nasty Papist religion of theirs. See the cite I gave in my response to the "Opera is scarey for kids" thread.
All I can say at this point is that the only defense available to the Western World against the unbridled rage fueling the Islamic furnace of hate is to starve them economically.
Why do you think these people are currently in an uproar over a handful of editorial cartoons?
Paris didn't erupt into riots because a couple of teenagers died during a police chase just as the Los Angeles riots weren't about a man being beaten by police officers. The events that touched off these waves of violence are nothing but breaking points and so I say there is a lot more to this than some foolish drawings. Social standing, economics, quality of life, and pressure from political forces are behind this. Want to piss them off even more, drive them to more suicide bombers? Try doing exactly what has enraged these people for many decades: starve them economically and restrict their trade.
Just my guess.
Why "ya'll" pickin on my redneck? :lol2:
![Image](<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/busterb/95550907/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/43/95550907_e83d69e52e.jpg" width="395" height="500" alt="muslim" /></a>)
Tried to do my part and get Jarlsberg cheese at the store. There was none. So either:
1. They pulled it because Arabs who I've never seen in the store complained
2. There was a groundswell of support for Norge
3. It was on sale for a week and they sold out
I'm gonna go with option three myself.
Take apart this controversy with a scalpel rather than painting all with a broad brush.
Point taken.
What is that, Buster? :confused:
These animals have done it again. They burned the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Syria over that cartoon. According to WIZM 1410 AM, this short blurb came from CBS News. I just checked CNN.com, just doing some fact checking. I hope that the PC crowd can finaly get that we are not dealing with sane and responsible people, but savages.
I am waiting for them to blow up a church or school over here. I have friends (Cops and Firefighters) that say if that happens they will stand by and let the citizens take out vengence on the animals.
I believe that we should round these assholes up and send them back to their country of origin. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.
As far as oil we have plenty of sources rite here we can bring our people home and let them kill each other if thats what they want to do.
Why do you think these people are currently in an uproar over a handful of editorial cartoons?
Paris didn't erupt into riots because a couple of teenagers died during a police chase just as the Los Angeles riots weren't about a man being beaten by police officers. The events that touched off these waves of violence are nothing but breaking points and so I say there is a lot more to this than some foolish drawings. Social standing, economics, quality of life, and pressure from political forces are behind this. Want to piss them off even more, drive them to more suicide bombers? Try doing exactly what has enraged these people for many decades: starve them economically and restrict their trade.
Just my guess.
Maybe what we need to do is restrict their trade and starve them economically. When these people started showing up, we embraced them and welcomed them into our country, and even gave their children priority admission to our colleges and universities. How did they repay our kindness? By telling us that we are stupid and beneath their contempt.
My sister Widget, had a b/f from the UAE who ran up a $1400 phone bill calling his friends back home. When she asked him to pay his bill he beat her up and slashed the tires on her car. I had to pay the phone bill, and replace her tires. I went to collect money from this turd. When he saw me he called the cops. The cop that showed up told me to go home (CGC Point Hobart) and don't come back. This piece of shit had some kind of diplomatic immunity and was untouchable.
I decided at that time these people were shit. From that minute on, I have tried to avoid contact with them. In the mid 80s they started taking over the taxi business in SoCal, and used terror tactics to try and put me out of business. These aren't isolated incidents. In my experience, this is the typical behaviour of these people.
As far as I'm concerned, round'em up and ship'em home. Let them grow food in the desert.
Maybe what we need to do is restrict their trade and starve them economically. When these people started showing up, we embraced them and welcomed them into our country, and even gave their children priority admission to our colleges and universities. How did they repay our kindness? By telling us that we are stupid and beneath their contempt.
My point, again, is that none of the Muslims in the US are protesting, none of them are rioting, none of them even seem to be upset about this. The people that are using these cartoons as an excuse are from several select countries that I think can easily be defined as "having issues" (economics, social standing, oppressive government, etc).
My sister Widget, had a b/f from the UAE who ran up a $1400 phone bill calling his friends back home. When she asked him to pay his bill he beat her up and slashed the tires on her car. I had to pay the phone bill, and replace her tires.
You could have replaced 'UAE' with 'Australia', 'Brazil', or even 'Boston' and the story would have been just as plausible. One person should not allow you to draw a summary for all.
I decided at that time these people were shit. From that minute on, I have tried to avoid contact with them. In the mid 80s they started taking over the taxi business in SoCal, and used terror tactics to try and put me out of business. These aren't isolated incidents. In my experience, this is the typical behaviour of these people.
I don't know about the taxi issues, but it sounds like you've had some bad, personal experiences with "these people". (Terror tactics? Did they blow up your car?) I don't know. I keep drifting time and time again to lumping all of the Muslim world into a group of people that I want to place a bad label on, but I have this awful feeling that our culture was in desperate need of a new boogeyman and that we're falling into the trap of media availability. I've never had a problem with a Muslim, never had any issues with someone practicing Islam. My old boss was a devout follower and he was a nice guy, a lot of my classmates are Muslim and they're no different than the other students. Studying with them never ended with me feeling hostile towards them, or even feeling remotely upset. My experience conflicts directly with what I hear spewing out of the television, so I take issue with it. Maybe I'm just lucky.
As far as I'm concerned, round'em up and ship'em home. Let them grow food in the desert.[/QUOTE]
Great idea. :rolleyes:
I once had the great idea of actually reading up on what Islam was all about and coming to a conclusion on just how I should view these people and their place in the world. ...and then I remember reading the bible and knowing that if I applied those values to all Christians, I'd probably want to kick every single one of them out of our country, too. But, hey, I've met some decent Christians in my life, so I'd feel a bit bad about that.
As far as I'm concerned, round'em up and ship'em home. Let them grow food in the desert.
Take apart this controversy with a scalpel rather than painting all with a broad brush.
But you would paint 'them' with a broad brush. Reasons provided and the logic used to obtain those conclusions are exactly what created 1960s racism - complete with hate.
Your story is nothing more than an incident. So now you blame one million others for that incident? Only using Rush Limbaugh reasoning could one conclude "round'em up and ship'em home. Let them grow food in the desert."
Based upon your story, then you should conclude that "we round up all diplomats and throw them in the ocean. Let them swim home." Then a conclusion would be more consistent with your sister's story.
This nation is very dependent on those other 999,999 immigrants because so many Americans are too lazy to become sufficiently educated. I often wonder who we really should be 'sending back'.
Meanwhile Kitsune asks questions that every 'responsible American' should have asked:
Why do you think these people are currently in an uproar over a handful of editorial cartoons?
It is what good people do. First learn
their perspective. Not the perspective of one alleged asshole. The other 999,999 perspectives.
This is the difference between our Christian Right, who Glorify God, and the Islamic Extremists, who fight for (their conception of) the Glory of God.
The incedent with my cab co. they (these peaceful and giving muslems) in one nite smashed 3 windshields, burned 1 car, and beat up one of my drivers. After calling the Sherrif I was told that if there was one more complaint he would shut me down. The next tactic was to call my Mothers house and threatend to burn her house or kidnap one of my sisters. Mom took the tapes to the Sheriff , and was told there was nothing they could do untill a crime was commited. As a result I sold out and moved to a place in Texas where people named Mohammed had best not stop.
I am a very open minded person, I have friends from every race and color. My mom married an African-American and he was as much a Dad as my biological Father.
I have never seen a group of people so all consumed with hate and disdain for the rights of others as the followers of Islam. After the events of 9/11/01 we need to do every thing we can to protect ourselfs.
I told my nephews when they joined the Marines (my familys business) to never trust or turn their back on them my oldest nephew told me that in Afganistan you only trust the children because they have not learned how to hate.
Clockwise: "This one is racist", "this one is anti-Semitic", "and this one (bottom) falls under freedom of speech"
Just some fuel for the fire.
And a little more fuel...
Religion of Peace.
Yeah. Sure.
...respect their freedom of religion over all of the rest of yours...
Emphasis mine.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060205/ap_on_re_mi_ea/prophet_drawings
"(Denmark's) government was able to avoid reaching this point ... simply through an apology" as requested by Arab and Muslim diplomats, state-run daily Al-Thawra said in an editorial Sunday.
"
It is unjustifiable under any kind of personal freedoms to allow a person or a group to insult the beliefs of millions of Muslims," the paper said.
I shouldn't have submitted the post so quickly...
"Insulting the prophet was unacceptable, resentful, and a sign of barbarism," Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi said, adding that Tehran planned to take further action.
This is the difference between our Christian Right, who Glorify God, and the Islamic Extremists, who fight for (their conception of) the Glory of God.
And our Christian Right hates opera. :rolleyes:
Have these guys never seen the zillion and one Jesus cartoons or God cartoons? Have none of them seen "The Life of Brian"?
jerry sppringer the opera was bradcast in the UK following the broadcast christian activists issud death threats against BBC corporate employees.
the LIfe of Brian was subject to protests and to distribution restrictions
Pro-life christian groups fire bomb clinics in the US
Westboro baptist church get up to all sorts of antics.
christian death threats against terri schiavo's husband.
catholics in ireland losing the plot and rioting when the orange lodge march though town.
the murder of Alan Berg.
bombings in the US and UK of gay bars...
www.godhatesfags.com
yes clearly it's only those pesky muslims who are extremists.
I have to say I'm with BigV on this one.
I do see it as blasphemous. The writing is pretty clear that depictions of the Prophet are viewed as idolatry. It is also clear that it is very insulting. That's an incindiary combination.
To ask where the line needs to be drawn in depicting the prophet is missing the point - the cartoons were NOT stick figures, or single pixel images, or even fruit & veg (although that made me laugh out loud). They were designed to offend and they did their job.
However--it is the reaction to such provocations that counts more than anything. Killing and burning, wreaking havoc against uninvolved third parties? Perfectly hypocritical. "Justifying" by inventing some causal relationship between a dairy conglomerate and the author of the cartoon based on nationality? An excuse for hooliganism.
It is evidence of intolerance and hypocrisy. And both sides are showing their intolerance and hypocrisy to maximum effect.
I won't defend anyone carrying placards that advocate death & destruction to strangers based on where they live. But I also don't think it's right to judge others on the behaviour of a minority that share their religion.
Just out of interest, I haven't seen anything in the news about Muslims in Denmark protesting - has anyone else?
Tell me you are saddened if I call you "Joe", and I will respect your wishes.
Tell me you will kill me if I call you "Joe", and "Joe" is your name forever.
The Danes were given death threats if they would publish a cartoon.
So they asked for submissions and printed a ton of them, and explained not only do they not cower to censorship by violence, but they would be the ones to stand up for the principle of free speech in such a situation.
jerry sppringer the opera was ...yada yada yada
And the fact that Christian nuts exist makes Islamic nuts blameless?
And the fact that Christian nuts exist makes Islamic nuts blameless?
No, but it puts this in perspective a bit, especially for the people screaming that only radical muslims react this way to images they find insulting.
From
Wikipedia:
For example, the release of The Last Temptation of Christ resulted in death threats [in the US] against director Martin Scorsese and one incident in France of a cinema showing the movie being attacked with molotov cocktails, injuring thirteen people, four of whom were burned severely.
Muslims burned down a consulate on seeing a handful of comics, Christians burned down a theater with the release of a movie and beachgoers in Sydney went on roving patrols and attacked anyone who had a Middle Eastern appearance. Same shit, different day. All of the people that perpetually point out the actions of "the religion of peace" need to note that western culture and religion, often defined as "enlightened" on this board, resort to the same tactics. They're usually the same people that pile up a
long list with a title like "where's the outrage?" while not even realizing that the west often
shows no outrage even
towards local events they are aware of.
Some protests have occured in the world, some have turned violent. This shouldn't cause anyone to apply a generalization to millions upon millions of people. By applying these generalizations, we perpetuate the cycle and it all continues. All the things you point out and hate about them are the same things they point out and hate about you. The only difference is that while they "show no outrage over 9/11" and blow up buildings in the name of their cause, we show no outrage over their issues and send our militaries in to destroy their world. And yes, not all of them are told nor see our military as the wonderful freedom-generating machine you've been told it is, just as you are told on a day-to-day basis that all muslims are out to take away your freedom and hate you for being American. You believe your propaganda, they believe theirs.
I thought this was fairly simple: Muslims
in the east are pissed at the western world for being treated as sub-human. Why? They're angry that the laws in Europe repeatedly lead to the arrest of people for hate-speech against jews but do nothing to the people that spew hate-speech towards Islam. Much of Europe treats Muslims as a lower class and all you have to do is look the events in Paris to see how decades of racial/religious tension have been building.
Some protests have occured in the world, some have turned violent. This shouldn't cause anyone to apply a generalization to millions upon millions of people.
OK, we'll just kill all the violent protestors. The black helicopters can provide the scapel approach suggested by TW. :eyebrow:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5192571
What about the stupid hateful insensitive protestors? Can I just kill him a little bit?
Link to Phelps' gloating over the deaths of more WVa miners.
link to story below
Funeral Protests
Posted 1/31/2006 06:25 PM
Protest at W.Va. mine disaster memorial prompts legislation
Story by The Associated Press
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) - West Virginia lawmakers are taking steps to pass a law that would restrict protests outside of funerals or memorial services. The legislation is in response to a Kansas-based group's decision to demostrate against homosexuality outside a January 15th memorial for the 12 Sago Mine victims. The protest group is largely the extended family of Topeka, Kansas, minister Fred Phelps and sees the miners' deaths as a sign of God punishing America for tolerating gays. It has applied the
Ad
same logic when U-S troops are killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bill (HB4306), which was introduced today, would keep such pickets 500 feet from a funeral or memorial service. The Kansas group had threatened to protest this past weekend outside the funerals of two miners killed at Logan County's Alma Number One Mine, but did not show up. The group's protests at soldiers' funerals have legislators in at least seven other states considering measures similar to those proposed in West Virginia. Phelps' group did not respond to a request for comment.
Copyright 2006 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
And of course,
FauxNews reports that this is the anti-war left disrespecting our brave soldiers. Idiot.
I don't agree with the restriction on free speech this and many other laws in the making would represent. But just because you have the right to free speech, doesn't mean you're unencumbered by the responsibility to use it without consideration to others. Sow hate, reap violence.
The Muslim world has been hewing to this maladaptive approach to the matter since the fourteenth century, when the Holy Qu'ran was officially placed off-limits to non-religious inquiry and/or pokes with a stick. Christianity never successfully pulled off the same stunt Christendom-wide, the Holy Inquisition notwithstanding -- there were always those who could fight the Inquisition off and they did so.
Islam's decline in the sciences, which they had hitherto been world-class players in, dates from that time. Losing free inquiry has borne centuries of marginalization, and now this bitter fruit.
It seems fairly obvious to me that no one likes their particular religion to be villified regardless of the intent; humorous or otherwise.
If Christian society wants to take the moral high ground and suggest that Islamic people who find these types of cartoons offensive are animals etc etc, then perhaps these 'morally right' individuals should excercise a little more understanding in their choice of cartoons.
As to the government of Denmark not apologizing for what has been printed in their paper under the grounds that it's not their responsibility, at that I scoff! Surely if a member of your country causes an international incident and seems likely to be the final catalyst to catastrophic events, then an apology to those who are offended surely is the least that could be offered. Apparently reactions to this have affected only 1.5% of Denmarks international trade. This may not seem like a high price to pay, but perhaps if the burden of that 1.5% falls on the shoulders of only a few companies, I'm sure the citizens of Denmark who have been effected financially would appreciate some understanding from their government...or the paper who printed the cartoons (which in my opinion were in poor taste and obviously meant to be inflamatory) at the least.
Muslims burned down a consulate on seeing a handful of comics, Christians burned down a theater with the release of a movie and beachgoers in Sydney went on roving patrols and attacked anyone who had a Middle Eastern appearance. Same shit, different day.
Steady the fuck on, that was nowhere near the same. Gangs of lebenese had been terrorising the beach for a long time and badly beat up two life guards. After the rally, where two lebenese were beaten up over 50 cars of lebenese shot and stabbed people and rioted.
Kitsune, all your examples are valid, but one glaring difference in all your examples is the fact that you're comparing mass demonstrations to the actions of a few individuals, or at best small groups. Even the IRA was little more than a band of insurgents. And they were fighting for what they felt was an occupation, and lack of representation. Not against a cartoon. Published in another country.
Religious zealots have absolutely done crazy things in both Islam and Christianity. But you can't call the the two equal. One has crazy people that go to the extreme of the religion. The other has built a power structure designed to keep people in the dark and whip the entire faith into a holy frenzy. The religion of Islam may be peaceful. But the organization is anything but.
Anyhow, the muslims will learn. They'll catch on to the absurdity of extremism... eventually. The problem that the western world is having is that we expect the Middle East to suddenly wake up and join the modern world. They *can't*. Culture doesn't just change overnight.
If anyone wants a comical view of what reads like a prophecy for modern day American efforts in the middle east, just go and read Mark Twain's book, "Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court." The parallel's are astounding.
Anyhow, the muslims will learn. They'll catch on to the absurdity of extremism... eventually. The problem that the western world is having is that we expect the Middle East to suddenly wake up and join the modern world. They *can't*. Culture doesn't just change overnight.
Unfortunately, what the Muslim world is learning is that those comics and George Jr's 'preemption policies' are, to them, part of an attack on Islam. More amazing is how many Americans deny that Muslims have this opinion.
Don't fool yourself for one minute. The United States will eventually attack Iran. Iran knows it which is why they are building nuclear bombs as fast as they can. Islamic people suspect (or know because radical Inman preach it) that the United States will continue to force changes on their society - against their will. George Jr has all but said we will force democracy on those people. Do you think for one minute that these people will welcome anything associated with George Jr? Of course not. Democracy only happens when people first want it. Democracy fails when it is forced upon those people. Need we cite Haiti as a prime example? Or Vietnam? Need we also know how many American policies were changed by George Jr to Israel's advantage with preceived contempt of the PLO?
You may view reform and enlightenment as something that Muslims will eventually learn. I see a slowly growing instability that includes possible nuclear war - complete with radical factors on both side that foster hate. All this was completely avoidable had we stayed with a fundamentally simple and well proven concept called containment. In containment, the local powers fight among themselves to eventually learn god's laws (called science - not called religion). Because of containment, the United States was once highly regarded by 70% of the world. Those people must earn, appreciate, and demand better government (maybe democracy). This cannot happen when preemption forces it upon them. Instead, western powers under pressure from George Jr are slowly coalescing a Muslim hate of westerners. Do you think for one momemt that Iraqis welcome Americans in Iraq? Only the naive preach that lie.
It is a well proven lesson of history. Democracy cannot be imposed. Furthermore, if we try to impose our ways on others - called preemption - those others may instead unite to oppose us. Norwegian troops in Afghanistan were just attacked yesterday over this event. Syrians went on the march attempting to firebomb the Danish embassy. Western embassies in Tehran were attacked. A flurry of right wing Islamic bills that once had little chance of becoming law will probably become law this month in Indonesia. Due to George Jr's righteous preemption policies, then the enemies of logical (secular) thought are uniting. And yes, all this is even making bin Laden look more popular even to some intellectuals. Based upon America's actions this past six years, what bin Laden said has more credibility. United against the comics are chants that include references against George Jr - and against a nation that was once viewed with honor and respect by 70% of the world.
Remember, Iran was once a country with a large reform movement - to remove the burden of Islamic fundamentalism. George Jr almost single handedly destroyed that movement with his myopic 'axis of evil' speech. Did you see how dangerous that speech was when he made it? It not, then ask yourself how many other lessons of history were not comprehended. George Jr all but declared war upon the Iranian people- it should have been that obvious back then to educated Americans. Those comics are but another little piece of a big puzzle that will become religious inspired wars.
And you thought we learned from history - the Thirty Years War, Arab-Israeli conflicts, the Crusades. Apparently not. Once religion becomes anything more than a relationship between one and his god, then hate and violence is promoted by all sides. The United States literally Pearl Harbored another nation - and yet many Americans still don't call that evil or wrong? Just another fact that suggests things will only get worse. Then too many on both sides will start thinking more like Urbane Guerrilla. It will then take massive death and destruction to restore sanity.
US attack Iran? Don't we still owe them an ass-kickin' for the US Embassy hostage event?
Who was president during that fiasco?
Truth is, Iran has more to fear from Israel. Superior training and superior equipment, and they are not afraid to use it.
At least, that's what history taught us.
Which is the next thing that the US needs to learn... when people don't like you the very last thing you want to do is get in everyone's faces and try to impose your will.
It's sad to say it... but there's actually a big similarity between modern day politics and internet forums. It's all changed b/c global media / communications has created a new-found globally aware perspective. To see the similarities just take a look at the modern forum... if someone is well respected, in a position of power, and out-spoken then there's no end to the string of forum trolls that do everything they can to knock the king-of-the-hill off his perch.
The lesson the world needs to learn is you *can't* win against the trolls. There's only two solutions: you either have to own the forum so you can ban on a whim (a la Something Awful), or you just have to keep a low profile. The US can't own the whole world, and we're doing a god-awful job of keeping a low profile. The idea of "keeping a low profile" is why I really like the motto, "walk softly and carry a big stick." Unfortunately our mantra now reads more like "stomp loudly and use a stick on people who complain". You're not going to make many friends that way.
The Muslim nation *will* change for the better, they *will* grow up. Eventually. They'll get smarter, more globally aware... eventually. Will it be before we have a nuke-u-lar war? That I don't know. I hope not, but right now the odds aren't looking too good.
Will it be before we have a nuke-u-lar war? That I don't know. I hope not, but right now the odds aren't looking too good.
You hope
so, I hope. ;)
Following on from what has been said earlier all I can say to this news report I hope this is the first of many..Appears also that one of the guys caught in the press pictures in the London demonstration wearing mock explosives in the guise of a suicide bomber was a convicted drug pusher.He has broke parole conditions and has been sent back to prison.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4690224.stmU.K. calls for cartoon protest arrests
http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20060206-072249-6608r
...snip...
A man who dressed as a suicide bomber for the demonstration apologized for his behavior, which he acknowledged had deeply offended the families of the July 7 victims.
Omar Khayam, 22, said he had dressed that way to make the point the right to free speech did not include the right to offend.
"But by me dressing the way I did, I did just that, exactly the same as the Danish newspaper, if not worse," he said in a statement.
Just a fact for some here who seem to think that Christianity or Christian society is in any way going to 'teach Muslims a lesson' or 'force them to grow up', or any of the other suggestions made here in this thread; In case you're not aware, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and already makes Christianity a minority (even Buddists and Hindus outnumber Christians), so while you're sitting there with all your wealth, ask yourself how much good it'll do you if you continue to antagonize the majority.
ask yourself how much good it'll do you if you continue to antagonize the majority
Are you serious? Thats one of the cornerstones of the American Way(tm). :lol:
The antics of JC's followers in 2005, a round up from Harper's Magazine:
2005 Jan 11 It was announced that no one may carry a cross along the 2005 inaugural parade route.[The News-Herald]»
Jan 21 A cartoonist was sentenced by a Greek court to six months in prison for depicting Jesus as a pot-smoking hippie.»[Ananova]
Feb 14 The last witness to the miraculous appearance of the Virgin Mary at Fatima died, and[The Daily Telegraph]»
Mar 20 Seventy-eight percent of Americans believe that Christ rose from the dead.[Newsweek]»
Apr 17 One-foot-tall talking Jesus, David, Mary, and Moses dolls will be sold in June.[Messengers of Faith]»
Apr 22 A Fresno, California, man was standing trial for killing nine of his children, seven of whom he fathered with his own daughters and nieces. “Jesus was a womanizer,” he explained.[CourtTV.com]»
Jun 18 A nun in Romania, undergoing exorcism, died after she was tied to a cross, gagged, and left alone for three days in a cold room. “I don't understand why journalists are making such a fuss about this,” said the priest who organized the exorcism.[BBC News]»
Aug 9 In Jerusalem the biblical Pool of Siloam, where Jesus cured a blind man, was discovered by sewer workers.[Post-Gazette.com]»
Oct 6 The Catholic Church of Scotland published a guide to the Bible stating that the account of creation in the book of Genesis is “symbolic.” The virgin birth of Jesus, however, is still considered to be fact.[The Scotsman]»
Dec 6 A Funyun shaped like the Virgin Mary cradling the baby Jesus sold online for $609.[The Miami Herald]»
Dec 19 For the second time this year, someone stole the life-sized Jesus from a nativity scene in Cincinnati, Ohio, although this time they left behind baby Jesus's leg.[The Canton Rep]»
At least Christian Fundamentalists haven't burned down a foreign embassy - yet! Oh, except for the ones in Baghdad at the beginning of the war and those don't count. The Bible tells me so. :headshake
From your link UT:
Many Muslims (and some non-Muslim) observers claim that there are more practicing Muslims than practicing Christians in the world. Adherents.com has no reason to dispute this. It seems likely, but we would point out that there are different opinions on the matter, and a Muslim may define "practicing" differently than a Christian. In any case, the primary criterion for the rankings on this page is self-identification, which has nothing to do with practice.
The highest figure we've seen for Hinduism (1.4 billion, Clarke, Peter B., editor), The Religions of the World: Understanding the Living Faiths, Marshall Editions Limited: USA (1993); pg. 125.) is actually higher than the highest figure we've seen for Islam. But this is an abberation. World Hinduism adherent figures are usually between 850 million and one billion.
So what if those Christians aren't practicing. Neither are the Danish cartoonists I'll wager.
Whether they're practicing or not is moot don't you think? The only point I was trying to make is that Christianity is not the religion of the world. It doesn't even have the largest following according to some sources.
Freedom of speech is not a Christian notion.
No it's not. What's your point?
My point is that your original post #87 was wrong in almost every way.
So far you've questioned one point which still seems to be up for debate and possibly always will be. What else would you like to argue?
Ever notice that these tough guys in Arab dress always have hoods covering their faces (and often their entire head)? If they are so tough, why not take off the rag so that the world can see their faces...
Ever notice that these tough guys in Arab dress always have hoods covering their faces (and often their entire head)? If they are so tough, why not take off the rag so that the world can see their faces...
If there's no shame in what they do, surely they'd display their faces with pride! After all, their God fully endorses what they do! Who cares what infidels think?
Just a fact for some here who seem to think that Christianity or Christian society is in any way going to 'teach Muslims a lesson' or 'force them to grow up', or any of the other suggestions made here in this thread; In case you're not aware, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and already makes Christianity a minority (even Buddists and Hindus outnumber Christians), so while you're sitting there with all your wealth, ask yourself how much good it'll do you if you continue to antagonize the majority.
If I'm not antagonizing the majority, then I'm not doing my job right.
Equality and equal rights are not just about the desires of the majority.
Islam is the "Fastest Growing" religion (although there are a few others that would dispute that) because their objective is to conquer, not to convince.
Am I reading things right here, btw? I'm getting the impression that somehow Muslims burning down foreign embassies is somehow Bush's fault. I just want to make sure I'm picking up the proper (misguided) subtext.
Sometimes the fault actually is in THEM, and not US, yah?
Just a fact
In fact it's not a fact. It's an opinion shared by you and uncited sources.
for some here who seem to think that Christianity or Christian society is in any way going to 'teach Muslims a lesson' or 'force them to grow up', or any of the other suggestions made here in this thread;
Opinions, like your own statements.
In case you're not aware, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and already makes Christianity a minority (even Buddists and Hindus outnumber Christians),
Opinion? Wild ass guess? Source?
so while you're sitting there with all your wealth, ask yourself how much good it'll do you if you continue to antagonize the majority.
Besides buying a military presence that can turn the world into a sheet of glass?
While I'm of the mind that it's not a good idea to go into the lions cage and twist his tail, I'll be damned if I'll alow him to dictate what I do in my cage.
I'm also of the opinion that the people in the news, self described islamic faithful, that riot, loot, murder over insults to their faith (real or imagined) are nothing but common criminals. I've no proof that they are even in fact, muslims, other than their claims quoted by the press, but I don't care one way or the other. The only thing I care about is their public behavior which is unacceptable. :headshake
So Aliantha, got your burqua on yet? Better get yourself down to the local mosque for a good caning, you wouldn't want to antagonise them.
So Aliantha, got your burqua on yet? Better get yourself down to the local mosque for a good caning, you wouldn't want to antagonise them.
That's not very fair, jag. How is she supposed to get to the local mosque when she is not allowed to drive? And don't forget that she has to turn in all her diplomas and go through memory cleansing since no woman is allowed to be smarter than the dumbest man.
Am I reading things right here, btw? I'm getting the impression that somehow Muslims burning down foreign embassies is somehow Bush's fault. I just want to make sure I'm picking up the proper (misguided) subtext.
Sometimes the fault actually is in THEM, and not US, yah?
Oh, come on, Wolf! Aren't we being just a little disingenuous here? You don't think all that "collateral" damage in Iraq might not have just mildly upset some folks of Middle East origin and Muslim faith? Take an open wound and lightly sprinkle a touch of salt on it and what do you get? I'm not saying that I don't think the response to the cartoon was as bizarre and extreme as everybody else does. I'm just saying.
When the good people of Iraq and Iran do not take enough interest in their own government to thwart the efforts of those who would turn their countries into a terrorist state, the removal of the infectious cancer of terrorism, female degradation, oppression, slaughter of their own people, and utter hi-jacking and corruption of a peaceful religion must be forcefully done and will always cause some collateral damage. Whether the forceful cancer surgery is done by internal cou d'etat or external intervention, the removal of the penetrating tentacles of the oppressors is seldom easy or painless.
Perhaps we need to help the terrorists to accomplish their ultimate goal which is to quickly achieve martyrdom so they can have 72 virgins in the afterlife. Apparently their wives and daughters are not part of their eternal aspirations being deemed as less than human in this life and less than that in the next life. These terrorists achieve martyrdom when they sacrifice their lives by blowing themselves up such that innocents around them also die. Obviously these terrorists are the greatest obscenity in all the world because their corruption of Islam makes them alone the greatest threat to true Islam.
We can help them achieve their eternal goals by contributing money and explosives to make the next step easy for them. Then we can help them gather themselves into one place and in one majestic stroke blow themselves up. Thus they will have truly conquered the world's greatest threat to Islam. Then the true protectors of Islam, those common people who really believe and practice its peaceful concepts can worship in peace being finally unshackled from the teachings of corrupt clerics and imams who teach the children to hate, devalue their lives, and murder.
Welcome to the Cellar, UG! :p
If I'm not antagonizing the majority, then I'm not doing my job right.
Wolf, I think there's a difference betwen antagonizing the majority and speaking up for the minority.
Bruce, if you want sources I'll give you sources, however, we all know there's a source to prove or disprove every argument. Sometimes even in the same article. *See post #90 and #91.
Jaguar and Beestie, is that the best you can do? Make ridiculous suggestions?
I think it's been pointed out already that there are extremists in any religion and I don't condone these actions by anyone regardless of what God they worship.
What I do object to is a gung-ho attitude displayed by so many people of the Christian faith who think it's a fore-gone conclusion that we're going to win this campaign we're currently on. Just because Christianity has been a signature of 'civilized society' for a couple of thousand years doesn't make it the only truth.
While people in the west have condemned countries in the middle east for their holy wars for the last hundred years and far beyond, it seems to me that the 'coalition of the willing' has embarked on their own 'holy war' against a religion they find threatening to their own way of life.
Of course, we're not in Iraq because of Islam are we? Aren't we there to bring democracy and find WMD? Hmmm...not sure now. Maybe it's to find Bin Laden...but apparently he's hanging out somewhere else now. Gosh...I really can't remember. Let's just see if I can read this book while it's upside down...
Hmmm...not sure now. Maybe it's to find Bin Laden...but apparently he's hanging out somewhere else now.
apparently one personality wasn't enough for tw?
Jaguar and Beestie, is that the best you can do? Make ridiculous suggestions?
No, but for some reason I'm not sure anything else would work.
Hmmm...not sure now. Maybe it's to find Bin Laden...but apparently he's hanging out somewhere else now.
I've always known where bin Laden is. He hiding out in a closet with Idi Bitty Amin (of Uganda) at the Conehead's house. You know. Those creatures from France. Just another reason to hate the French.
What I do object to is a gung-ho attitude displayed by so many people of the Christian faith who think it's a fore-gone conclusion that we're going to win this campaign we're currently on. Just because Christianity has been a signature of 'civilized society' for a couple of thousand years doesn't make it the only truth.
Don't make the mistake of assuming everyone that's condemning the Islamic rioters are Christians.
You don't have to be religious to loathe hoodlums, thugs and arsonists. :eyebrow:
If I'm not antagonizing the majority, then I'm not doing my job right.
Equality and equal rights are not just about the desires of the majority.
Islam is the "Fastest Growing" religion (although there are a few others that would dispute that) because their objective is to conquer, not to convince.
Am I reading things right here, btw? I'm getting the impression that somehow Muslims burning down foreign embassies is somehow Bush's fault. I just want to make sure I'm picking up the proper (misguided) subtext.
Sometimes the fault actually is in THEM, and not US, yah?
In my own unguided thinking, you are in the majority. Silent or otherwize.
<a href="http://www.mohammeddance.com">Latest salvo: fired.</a>
I
While people in the west have condemned countries in the middle east for their holy wars for the last hundred years and far beyond, it seems to me that the 'coalition of the willing' has embarked on their own 'holy war' against a religion they find threatening to their own way of life.
OK I am late to this party - but I read along.... my exception to the above quote and other of your posts is that I keep getting the feeling that it is only Christians who are condeming the actions of those rioters and terrorists, and that it is only Christians who are fighting the war in Iraq... not so -
the American people, as a whole, are fighting and condeming the thugs for their actions...including Jews, Buddists, Islamists, Hindis, Atheists, Agnostics, and even those woefully (IMO) misunderstood believers in the Church of the eternal Faming Goat & Boatswain ministries....we are NOT comdeming the extremists for being MUSLIM - we ARE condeming their actions....
Please keep in mind that it is not the MUSLIM religion that is being opposed... it's the terroristic mayhem a group of people who are Muslim uphold and then attribute their actions to the Will of GOD -
the 'coalition of the willing' has embarked on their own 'holy war' against a religion they find threatening to their own way of life.
Um... color me stupid but I swear it was a extremeist Muslim sect of terrorists that came to AMERICA and killed innocents- we are just cleaning up the mess...
Attempted Iraqi Attacks on U.S. Posts, January 18-19, 1991: Iraqi agents planted bombs at the U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia’s home residence and at the USIS library in Manila.
Attempted Assassination of President Bush by Iraqi Agents, April 14, 1993: The Iraqi intelligence service attempted to assassinate former U.S. President George Bush during a visit to Kuwait. In retaliation, the U.S. launched a cruise missile attack 2 months later on the Iraqi capital Baghdad.
PUK Kidnapping, September 13, 1996: In Iraq, Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) militants kidnapped four French workers for Pharmaciens Sans Frontieres, a Canadian United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) official, and two Iraqis.
Philippines Hostage Incident, May 27, 2001: Muslim Abu Sayyaf guerrillas seized 13 tourists and 3 staff members at a resort on Palawan Island and took their captives to Basilan Island. The captives included three U.S. citizens: Guellermo Sobero and missionaries Martin and Gracia Burnham. Philippine troops fought a series of battles with the guerrillas between June 1 and June 3 during which 9 hostages escaped and two were found dead. The guerrillas took additional hostages when they seized the hospital in the town of Lamitan. On June 12, Abu Sayyaf spokesman Abu Sabaya claimed that Sobero had been killed and beheaded; his body was found in October. The Burnhams remained in captivity until June 2002.
Death of "the Lion of the Panjshir", September 9, 2001: Two suicide bombers fatally wounded Ahmed Shah Massoud, a leader of Afghanistan’s Northern Alliance, which had opposed both the Soviet occupation and the post-Soviet Taliban government. The bombers posed as journalists and were linked to al-Qaida. The Northern Alliance did not confirm Massoud’s death until September 15.
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Homeland, September 11, 2001: Two hijacked airliners crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center. Soon thereafter, the Pentagon was struck by a third hijacked plane. A fourth hijacked plane, suspected to be bound for a high-profile target in Washington, crashed into a field in southern Pennsylvania. The attacks killed 3,025 U.S. citizens and other nationals. President Bush and Cabinet officials indicated that Usama Bin Laden was the prime suspect and that they considered the United States in a state of war with international terrorism. In the aftermath of the attacks, the United States formed the Global Coalition Against Terrorism.
Attack on a Church in Pakistan, October 28, 2001: Six masked gunmen shot up a church in Bahawalpur, Pakistan, killing 15 Pakistani Christians. No group claimed responsibility, although various militant Muslim groups were suspected.
And the list goes on...
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/5902.htm
Of course I feel these extremists are threatening my way of life - they ARE.
this rant brought to you by the following sponsors.... :worried:
we are NOT comdeming the extremists for being MUSLIM - we ARE condeming their actions....
Well, sometimes it is difficult to tell the difference on this board when you see wonderful posts like this:
I decided at that time these people were shit. From that minute on, I have tried to avoid contact with them. ... As far as I'm concerned, round'em up and ship'em home. Let them grow food in the desert.
So please excuse us if we have a difficult time seeing the difference, especially when there hasn't been any protests/violence/etc from American muslims or in any civilized western nation, for that matter. But, ah, I guess the solution is to just "ship 'em home!" Just to be safe. Just in case they happen to be violent. Or something. Yeah.
Of course I feel these extremists are threatening my way of life - they ARE.
Funny, that. You are aware that the biggest threat to your way of life, currently, comes more from your local federal government that any distant, flag-burning protester, right? You are aware that your
fear is the only thing setting any constraints on your freedom and not some sign holder half a world away? Your
own government has already agreed that your speech needs to be limited in order to be sensitive to the religions of others.
Extreme Muslims? The only people changing your way of life are wholesome, god-fearing Christians.
Oh, yeah! Finally! Some talk with some local muslims at USF on the matter!
Their view was: Yes, all the cartoons were insulting, mostly because they depicted something you're not supposed to depict. But both also agreed that several were funny and to the point, and didn't take it particularly personally.
Can you believe it? An Iraqi and an Iranian found some of them funny. One of the girls even pulled up the images on her laptop while in class. On looking at them, she didn't melt, scream, explode, or anything! Unbelievable!
The professor of the Middle East Pol Sci class pretty much stated that the protests and riots are "largely the exploitation of an ignorant population".
Considering that he is Tunisian, well...
Christian? Me? Jesus christ woman get a goddamn grip. This is about freedom of speech, as close as possible to absolute freedom of speech as possible. My freedom to draw cartoons of mohammed of fucking a goat or jesus dressed a pot smoking hippie. It's a freedom a lot of people died for and one that is damn close to my heart.
The idea that halfwit such as yourself kowtowing to islamo-facists, blithely giving up one of pillars of western civilisation makes me sick. Ask anyone here, I tend towards the left and the dovish side of politics but this ridiculous farce over a couple of cartoons and the sickening response of fools such as yourself is just too much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliantha
the 'coalition of the willing' has embarked on their own 'holy war' against a religion they find threatening to their own way of life.
Um... color me stupid but I swear it was a extremeist Muslim sect of terrorists that came to AMERICA and killed innocents- we are just cleaning up the mess...
OK, the problem with this whole situation is that no one seems to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff anymore. Yes of course we all know that the original 9/11 actions taken by Bin Laden and his cronies instigated A fight, but it's not the one currently being argued.
This could turn into a discussion on the rights and wrongs of the war in Iraq which has somehow become a cross between 'the war on terror' and 'bringing democracy to Iraq'. The problem is that the story has become so twisted and convoluted that it's hard to tell who's right and who's wrong. The problem is that no one seems to really know what anyone's truly fighting for anymore, and no one seems to know when it's going to end because people keep adding fuel to an already well lit fire.
The supporters of this conflict claim that they're democratizing Iraq and fighting terrorism. So be it! If that's the truth then good on them. The problem is that obviously not everyone in the world would like to see peace, including some members of Islam, some Christians and some stray dogs who don't believe in any God etc etc etc.
The problem is, protests like this happen because of a situation that many of these people are not to blame for. In fact, the majority of them are not to blame for any of it. They're just sick and tired of being persecuted because they believe in Allah and not God. They're sick and tired of being persecuted because some of their members are fruitloops. They're sick and tired of being persecuted because of the way they dress or how they look. They're sick and tired of being persecuted full stop.
Even the gentlest creature will react with violence if you taunt it enough.
Bruce, I found this information
here:
Rate of change of Christians and Muslims:
Of the two largest religions, the "market share" of Christianity appears to be fairly constant:
*U.S. Center for World Mission estimated in 1997 that the percentage of humans who regard themselves as Christians rose from 33.7% in 1970 to 33.9% in 1996. 2 Its total number of adherents is growing at about 2.3% annually. This is approximately equal to the growth rate of the world's population. Islam is growing faster: about 2.9% and is thus increasing its market share.
* "World Christian Encyclopedia: A comparative survey of churches and religions - AD 30 to 2200," estimates that as of 2000, Christians make up 33% of the world's population, with close to two billion followers.
*Author Samuel Huntington disagrees: "The percentage of Christians in the world peaked at about 30 % in the 1980s, leveled off, is now declining, and will probably approximate to about 25% of the world's population by 2025. As a result of their extremely high rates of population growth, the proportion of Muslims in the world will continue to increase dramatically, amounting to 20 percent of the world's population about the turn of the century, surpassing the number of Christians some years later, and probably accounting for about 30 percent of the world's population by 2025." 3
*The UK Christian Handbook has lower figures. They estimate that 28.3% of the world's population identified themselves as Christians in 1990. They expect this to drop to 27.7% by the year 2000, and to 27.1 in 2010. 4 They attribute the drop to the lower birth rate among Christians compared to followers of other religions.
Considering that these arguments seem fairly weighted and are from what would appear to be reliable sources, it would seem clear that my first claim that
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world
was correct. I will concede that Christianity is not outnumbered yet, but if these figures are true, we're only one generation from that becomming a fact.
The rest of the site is worth looking at. Some of the figures are surprising.
The problem is, protests like this happen because of a situation that many of these people are not to blame for. In fact, the majority of them are not to blame for any of it. They're just sick and tired of being persecuted because they believe in Allah and not God. They're sick and tired of being persecuted because some of their members are fruitloops. They're sick and tired of being persecuted because of the way they dress or how they look. They're sick and tired of being persecuted full stop.
Even the gentlest creature will react with violence if you taunt it enough.
The only ones that are pesecuting these people are their religious leaders. They are being duped into believing the Jews and Christians of the World are plotting their demise......the west is keeping them from living the good life.
If I insult Allah and he can't handle it, or me, then he is a pissant Deity not worthy of the title.
If they were true believers they wouldn't be threatened by anyones opinion of Allah. They would be secure in their faith, and Allah, as I suspect most Muslims, including the ones in Kitsune's last post, are. The problem is those Muslims are very, very silent.
These rioters are nothing but scumbag hooligans that debase the Muslim faith, and deserve to me stomped :footpyth:
The only ones that are pesecuting these people are their religious leaders. They are being duped into believing the Jews and Christians of the World are plotting their demise......the west is keeping them from living the good life.
If I insult Allah and he can't handle it, or me, then he is a pissant Deity not worthy of the title.
If they were true believers they wouldn't be threatened by anyones opinion of Allah. They would be secure in their faith, and Allah, as I suspect most Muslims, including the ones in Kitsune's last post, are. The problem is those Muslims are very, very silent.
These rioters are nothing but scumbag hooligans that debase the Muslim faith, and deserve to be stomped :footpyth:
EXACTLY!!!
But, if they want an apology -
A Letter of Apology from Crimson Ghost, US Marine Corps, Retired
I humbly offer my apology here:
I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).
I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.
I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs.
I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships.
I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth.
I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools, mosques, and government-controlled media.
I am sorry that Yasir Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and high-jacked the Palestinian "cause".
I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.
I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA for all their problems.
I am sorry that our own left wing, our media, and our own brainwashed masses do not understand any of this (from the misleading vocal elements of our society, like radical professors, CNN and the NY TIMES).
I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.
I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death.
I am sorry that those same bombers are brainwashed thinking they will receive 72 virgins in "paradise."
I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies, children, the elderly and other non-combatant civilians are legitimate targets.
I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own making.
I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.
I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.
I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah.
I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site."
I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church — one of our Holy Sites.
I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, the murders and beheadings of Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl, etc...etc.
America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do.
We hang out our dirty laundry for the entire world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.
Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like — so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong! Sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured, we were trying to kill those same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?
Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burned among a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujahans.
If you want an apology from this American, go fuck yourself!
You have a better chance of finding those seventy-two virgins!
Crimson Ghost, US Marine Corps (Ret.)
Semper Fi
Well said, Thank You Ghost. Semper Paratus fargon
The problem is, protests like this happen because of a situation that many of these people are not to blame for. In fact, the majority of them are not to blame for any of it. They're just sick and tired of being persecuted because they believe in Allah and not God. They're sick and tired of being persecuted because some of their members are fruitloops. They're sick and tired of being persecuted because of the way they dress or how they look. They're sick and tired of being persecuted full stop.
Even the gentlest creature will react with violence if you taunt it enough.
Does that apply to Christians too?? Hmm.... I certainly hope so!
Crimson Ghost - Your post was phenominal!! I thank you for your service in the USMC, and for that post.
Note to self: add CG to my list of heroes.
Note to self: add CG to my list of heroes.
Better make it General Chuck Pitman. Or,
maybe not.
Semper Fi, indeed. The author isn't even a marine.
I thought the fad of distributing and swallowing this kind of "patriotic" tripe had passed in 2003 or so. Oh well.
I thought the fad of distributing and swallowing this kind of "patriotic" tripe had passed ...
Say what you want about me but I like patriotic tripe whoever writes it.
Say what you want about me but I like patriotic tripe whoever writes it.
Here you go, then. You'll love this one, also not written by the person it is attributed to. Maybe the one Charlie Daniels
really did write will make you feel warm and tingly. Or maybe
this one, entitled "You Worry Me", that includes this beauty:
We will NEVER give in to your influence, your retarded mentality, your twisted, violent, intolerant religion. We will NEVER allow the attacks of September 11, or any others for that matter, to take away that which is so precious to us: Our rights under the greatest constitution in the world.
I swear I can hear Toby Keith's "Beer for my Horses" playing, quietly.
Thank you. One of the things that's cool about America is that someone who loves America can have a civil discussion with someone who has little or no respect for what America stands for without either one fearing retribution from the other or from the State.
And, for the sake of discussion, do you live in America because you are not allowed to leave or because you are comfortable settling for less than some other country can offer you?
One of the things that's cool about America is that someone who loves America can have a civil discussion with someone who has little or no respect for what America stands for without either one fearing retribution from the other or from the State.
Agreed.
And, for the sake of discussion, do you live in America because you are not allowed to leave or because you are comfortable settling for less than some other country can offer you?
Uh... wha? Well, technically I live here because I was born here and that gave me automatic citizenship, but I continue to live here because there currently aren't any other places in this world I'd rather be. There are plenty of other countries that offer more freedom to their citizens than the US does at this moment, but I love this land, love her cities, and I love the varied culture across the regions. I couldn't leave that.
The only ones that are pesecuting these people are their religious leaders.
The religious leaders are really just aiding and abetting.
All of this shit is in the Koran, spelled out in plain English. errr, Arabic.
The religious leaders are really just aiding and abetting.
All of this shit is in the Koran, spelled out in plain English. errr, Arabic.
Just about any Book you look at will have its fair share of shit. What makes the Koran any worse than the OT? or any other
"Because I Said So!" treatise? :eyebrow:
Yes.....look how people take shit from the bible, epecially the old testament, and use it to justify stupid behavior. :rolleyes:
There is a difference between religion and faith. A decent person of faith will take things that are decent, humane and benevolent out of any holy book and ignore the garbage. A religious fanatic will do the exact opposite.
FallenFairy said: Does that apply to Christians too?? Hmm.... I certainly hope so!
The issue under discussion at present is why Muslim demonstrators are reacting with such fervour and violence.
I find it very difficult to understand why people who support the war in Iraq continually seem to confuse the issues there with Bin Laden's actions of 9/11. These conflicts began because the Bush government was unable to find Bin Laden and the public wanted retribution so they started a war - either justified or unjustified - to take the pressure off. Believe it or not, it had nothing to do with Christian behaviour. Muslim extremism is a problem as it is in any religion.
So yes, it applies to Christians as well. The problem is, the 'Christian' ones among us seem to have lost sight of their goals, while the Muslims seem to have a very clear goal.
These conflicts began because the Bush government was unable to find Bin Laden and the public wanted retribution so they started a war - either justified or unjustified - to take the pressure off.
No. Iraq was the goal from the start, even before 9-11.
... Muslims seem to have a very clear goal.
I'd love to know what it is. What is the goal of Islam?
sorry it's huge but worth it.
Nice job. It just goes to show that our founding fathers, flawed as they may have been, were the smartest bunch of prognosticators since Jimmy the Greek. If anyone needs to understand the reason for separation of church and state, this is it.
The twofer is freedom of the press and freedom of religion, rich.
Don't get me started on the separation thing ... I'm pretty sure it's been covered here.
Good to see other cartoonists standing up for their medium and freedom...
...scary to see not one US news agency has broadcast the images of the original cartoons. How do you report on something you can't even show or talk about?
No. Iraq was the goal from the start, even before 9-11.
No shit? Gee I never would have guessed that.
The point is, 9/11 helped the government justify it's advance on Iraq which in turn took the pressure off its failure to locate and neutralise Bin Laden.
I'd love to know what it is. What is the goal of Islam?
I think it's fairly clear what the goal of
extreme Muslims is. If you're not sure, you should probably re read a few of the threads on here.
The Muslim world is protesting?
Maybe not as many as you might think.
Muslims have every right to protest, but the overreaction was unnecessary. In reality, the number of original demonstrators was tiny: 300 in Pakistan, 400 in Indonesia, 200 in Tripoli, a few hundred in Britain (before Saturday’s bigger reconciliation march), and government-organised hoodlums in Damascus burning an embassy. Beirut was a bit larger. Why blow this up and pretend that the protests had entered the subsoil of spontaneous mass anger? They certainly haven’t anywhere in the Muslim world, though the European media has been busy fertilising the widespread ignorance that exists in this continent.
Ooo, scary! ~1,000 over-reacting protestors worldwide! Why is that the media, here, tends to make everyone think it is damn near
all of them? Wouldn't this, you know, perpetuate the cycle?
In other news, the freedom of the press takes another turn. It seems a lot of people that are sure that we should have the right to publish some insulting cartoons think there are
some photos that shouldn't be published. Or what about
video?
I guess cartoons "don't hurt the troops", so that makes it okay.
In other news, the freedom of the press takes another turn. It seems a lot of people that are sure that we should have the right to publish some insulting cartoons think there are some photos that shouldn't be published. Or what about video?
I guess cartoons "don't hurt the troops", so that makes it okay.
Here's a
link to some of the photos. They should have just released all the photos at once. Letting them out in dribs and drabs just keeps pulling the scab off the wound.
They should have just released all the photos at once. Letting them out in dribs and drabs just keeps pulling the scab off the wound.
Maybe you forget why these photos are still relevant. We Americans have endorsed and encouraged torture. Those who most advocate and encourage this - ie Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales - are still in power, maintain that such practices are good for America, and, well, you do know about force feeding tortured prisoners in Guantanamo.
What we also know about Abu Ghriad is that most all prisoners were innocent. The great majority were released after three weeks - given something like $10 for their time and to be used to get home. You tell me who the great Satan is in this story?
Did we eliminate the problem? No. Most of us so hate what American stands for as to vote for the mental midget and his band of 'torture is good' promoters.
Want to stop such pictures? Impeachment is the word. Impeachment for crimes against humanity. Oh. Religious extremist don't believe this is a crime - as they also did during the Spanish Inquisition.
Keep those pictures dribbling. They will remind us that we are party to a great 'immoral' action - and don't speak out.
Most all those who were tortured - many of whom were also killed (ie that Iraqi General) were innocent. But since our emotions said they must be evil, then their death was a good thing? Ask yourself where this is called moral. Keep those pictures coming so that the guilty may eventually appreciate who evil ones really are. Shame that those pictures are so necessary. Absolute shame.
"they" in my post refers to the administration, which fought releasing them in the first place. I recall that they showed all the pictures to memebers of congress at the time, but only released some to the press. The rest they wanted to hide because they were even worse than the hooded wire guy and naked pyramid ones. You can't keep a lid on photos like this. They will get out. In order to maximize damage control, they should have released them all at once. It would have been slightly more painful at the time, but they wouldn't be resurfacing at a time that the world is in turmoil over a bunch of cartoons. What I'm saying is that the administration handled the fallout from these pictures poorly.
What I'm not saying is that the press shouldn't be printing them. I think the press should print them as they get them.
What I'm saying is that the administration handled the fallout from these pictures poorly.
That's not true. Clearly those enlisted men brought dog collars and leashes to Iraq so they could intentionally torture and degrade prisoners. The administration rightly identified those enlisted men as an isolated group of torturers. Clearly neither General Miller, other officers, nor senior administration officials had anything to do with what is in those pictures. Actions that were documented by FBI agents who then left the locale due to repeated torture and other maltreatment. Clearly those pictures are only isolated examples of a few deviant Americans - not something that was initiated by Cheney, Gonzales, Rumsfeld, Wolfovitz, and George Jr's agenda. Clearly the White House acted responsibly; were forthcoming, transparent, and honest.
But then the victims were Muslim. They deserved what they got. Or maybe our administration instead lies? Why would I even suggest such nonsense.
Gosh TW, I didn't know you were so good at sarcasm. It's a talent you rarely display :thumb:
I was just listening to a very interesting piece on NPR's Talk of the Nation. They were contrasting the furor over the Mohammed cartoons with the recent conviction and sentencing of David Irving for the crime of
denying the holocaust. (The trial was in Austria; he got 3 years.)
This is a very awkward situation. I realize that Germany and Austria must have a very special relationship to their own history and their responsibility for the millions of WWII atrocities, and this form of censorship may be appropriate -- for them. America is really an outlier when it comes to our militant free-speech stance.
On the other hand, the Mohammed cartoons have killed protesters, and those the protesters target. Self-inflicted, all of it.
1. You can express your ideas.
2. You can't cause a riot.
What happens when your ideas cause a riot?
The police uphold the bloody law and if the protesters are breaking it, arrest them and since they're riot cops and therefore incapable of restraint, propbably kick their heads in. And you keep on expressing your ideas.
Eventually, when enough people (preferably, those with lots of money and power already) start agreeing with your ideas, you overthrow the government and start your own, and then go around kicking in the heads of the people who are spouting *their* ideas.
Government isn't hard. All it takes is money, and the power follows.
I was just listening to a very interesting piece on NPR's Talk of the Nation. They were contrasting the furor over the Mohammed cartoons with the recent conviction and sentencing of David Irving for the crime of denying the holocaust. (The trial was in Austria; he got 3 years.)
This is a very awkward situation. I realize that Germany and Austria must have a very special relationship to their own history and their responsibility for the millions of WWII atrocities, and this form of censorship may be appropriate -- for them. America is really an outlier when it comes to our militant free-speech stance.
On the other hand, the Mohammed cartoons have killed protesters, and those the protesters target. Self-inflicted, all of it.
1. You can express your ideas.
2. You can't cause a riot.
What happens when your ideas cause a riot?
Irving's sentence was largely self-inflicted. He brought himself to fame (or infamy) by bringing a lawsuit in the UK against his detractors. He claimed that he was the victim of a world-wide Jewish conspiracy out to get him. He lost the case. Had he just laid low and contented himself with sniping in academic journals, I doubt if he would ever have come to the notice of the Austrian government.
The governments of Austrian and Germany can hardly be blamed for their stance on this subject. The two nations have the blood of 6 million people on their hands - especially Germany.
Let's face it, if someone had written that Mohammed inspires Muslims to become terrorists (this gets written all the time), it would not have had the impact of the cartoon. I'm not saying that the people causing riots or killing other folks in the process were in the right, but the cartoon was sacrireligous and, thus, doublely inflamatory to the Muslim world.
The Muslim people honestly believe that the West is to them what Hitler was to the Jews. The cartoonist and the newspaper which published his work were expressing their right of free speech the same way someone shouting "fire!" in a crowded theater does.
Again, I do NOT condone the more outrageous actions of the protesters. I'm just sayinng.
I was just listening to a very interesting piece on NPR's Talk of the Nation. They were contrasting the furor over the Mohammed cartoons with the recent conviction and sentencing of David Irving for the crime of denying the holocaust. (The trial was in Austria; he got 3 years.)
This is a very awkward situation.
It’s not very awkward once we apply details. For example, Irving claimed he had changed his mind in the 1990s after learning more about those concentration camps. Problem: he was suing the Emory University professor in Britain in 2000. Irving claimed that he said he no longer agreed with his book years previous to 2000 when he was suing that Emory University professor to (essentiall) defend his book.
Irving apparently is a perverse liar. His sentence apparently goes beyond the holocaust. He lied to the court when he said he had changed his opinion in 1990s - to try to get his sentence eliminated. That trial is more about the credibility and honesty of Irving - who has a problem with both human requirements.
Yup, Irving really pulled a boner on that "I rethought my position in the 90's" defense. At the time of the civil suit that Irving filed in 2000, he also said "I'm going after Lipstadt because she's peddling her book in England; in the U.S. she is protected by NY vs. Sullivan, by the First Amendment..."
Hmmmm... A man who claims First Amendment rights bring suit in a country where he thinks they didn't care about the right to free speech. Interesting. He was also photographed front stage at skinhead rallies in Austria and Germany.
Tisk, tisk. Poor baby. Let's all jump on the bandwagon for free speech for Mr. Irving - the man who did his best to circumnavigate that right. Uh huh. :eyebrow:
~~snip~ Let's face it, if someone had written that Mohammed inspires Muslims to become terrorists (this gets written all the time), it would not have had the impact of the cartoon. I'm not saying that the people causing riots or killing other folks in the process were in the right, but the cartoon was sacrireligous and, thus, doublely inflamatory to the Muslim world.
Why doubley inflamatory? Twice as inflamitory as what?
The Muslim people honestly believe that the West is to them what Hitler was to the Jews. The cartoonist and the newspaper which published his work were expressing their right of free speech the same way someone shouting "fire!" in a crowded theater does.
Nonsense, there's no comparison. They are scumbags with nothing to do and nothing to lose so they have a riot for fun and prophet. :mad:
Why doubley inflamatory? Twice as inflamitory as what?
Nonsense, there's no comparison. They are scumbags with nothing to do and nothing to lose so they have a riot for fun and prophet. :mad:
Twice as inflammatory as the written statement. The Muslims have some big prohibition against graven images which, I believe, extends to Mohammed, as well. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I never said the protestors were right in their extreme actions, merely that the cartoon was like a match to the kerosene.
If you saw
Kitsune's link from post #22, you would know that's not true. :eyebrow:
The Muslims have some big prohibition against graven images which, I believe, extends to Mohammed, as well. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I never said the protestors were right in their extreme actions, merely that the cartoon was like a match to the kerosene.
So why would they be any different than Christians who fought and killed over the same nonsense. See previous history over Iconoclasts. That secular nonsense literally created another fissure in Christian faith.
Only problem with twelve cartoons is that they provide no intelligent thought, no humor, no useful sarcasm to cause intelligent people to see through religious extremist rhetoric, and only insulted. Reason to justify riots and create political hum-dung demonstrates how many leaders and their followers are inspired by lies and religious myths rather than the advancement of mankind.
I have no respect for the cartoon's author and have same disrespect for religious types who took such offense as to respond physically. No wonder god does not yet want man in space - which is why he keeps blowing up manned spacecraft and destroying probes to Mars. We remain tolerant of the absurd among us who cannot be bothered to first learn reality before proclaiming their rights and the power of their pagan gods. Yes it is a comment about both incited Muslims and another idiot: George Jr.
Thank you, Bruce. No, I hadn't seen Kitsune's link, but I do notice it makes mention of the "Islamic ban on depicting the Prophet." I also notice that none of the Muslim artists who broke that ban went so far as to depict the prohet as a smoking bomb. Again, I am not saying the protesters were right in going to the extremes that some of them did, I'm just saying.
The story so far: Danish paper publishes cartoons that mock Muslims. An Iranian paper responds with a Holocaust cartoons contest.
Meanwhile, in response to Irans call for anti-Semitic Holocaust cartoons, an Israeli graphic artist and comic publisher, Amitai Sandy, has announced an anti-Semitic cartoon contest of his own, in which only Jews can participate.
Yesterday, I heard Sandy interviewed on NPRs Fresh Airjust fantastic. (You can listen to it here. http://tinyurl.com/kv7u8)
He talks about how the ability to lampoon oneself is tied to self-confidence, and it's quite compelling. I also loved his reason for why he wouldn't have published the Danish cartoonsnot because they shouldn't have been published, free speech and all that; they just weren't funny.
He also gives some examples of the cartoons which have been submitted already, my favorite (as it were) of which is: Two guys at a used car lot. The Jewish buyer asks the salesman how many Jews can fit in the car they're looking at. The salesman tells him, "Oh lots. You can fit two in the front and three in the back and six million in the ashtray." Beat that, Iran.
I love this contest. There's just such a brilliant bravado about it; it's the best response imaginable.
"We will show the world we can do the best, sharpest, most offensive Jew hating cartoons ever published!" said Sandy "No Iranian will beat us on our home turf!"
Submissions will be accepted from [Jews] all over the world and winners will be displayed in Tel Aviv gallery.
http://tinyurl.com/kqmfd
My mom turned me on to this. We laughed till we cried. It would take me over three thousand years to explain why we found the ashtray joke hysterical. :lol:
dov, Thats not funny. I don't know why you are here, why don't you goto
www.aquafans.com, they would love you over there.
Guess you would prefer Israel nuke Iran for Iran’s holocaust jokes, fargon.
Watch it with the ashtray joke. We lost a really good dwellar over the ashtray joke.
You really don’t get the irony; humour and genius behind it do you?
You really can’t understand one reason the Jews out lived the Egyptian, Babylon, Greek, Roman and Christian Dynasties by being able to make fun of ourselves. You are attempting to censor something you have no conception of. It’s a solution to the Iranian problem, defusing them immediately. You want to make racist jokes Iran about us? Too late we beat you to it. Like I said, around hear censorship and nukes prevail.
I post pics here, ones I consider quite engaging, not allowed, I post a very funny joke whose essence goes way over your heads, I’m censored. No BS hypocritical hierarchy with a saturated perspective of the world is getting rid of me. If you do, you most definitely, eventually will feel shame. Status quo is comfy. Wave making newbie is a no no. Look at yourselves, not at me, when your disturbed, if you are capable. Ya, I am pi$$ed off at the close minded cloistered community here, but not pi$$ed off enough to leave, YET.
The only person who could post the ashtray joke is a Jew. You don’t have to understand and there is know way for you to. You’d need a 3000-year-old heritage not a 300-year-old one to get it. You are off by twenty seven hundred years.
Mari, the thing I was pointing out is there has not been an across the board ban on depicting Muhammad. It’s interpreted by some clerics as a graven image but historically not a consensus.
Once again I’ll remind people these cartoons were not made for entertaining anyone.
1- The publisher wrote a book on the life of Muhammad or the Islamic roots or something.
2- He had trouble finding someone to illustrate the book.
3- He chided the community of illustrators for there lack of balls.
4- These cartoons were their response to HIM for his chiding.
5- He published them in his newspaper as part of an article on the trouble he’d had finding an illustrator and the growing fear of radical Islamics.
6- The cartoons were never meant to be stand alone political cartoons.
Dov, you’re right. The Jews have always had a self deprecating humor that makes it difficult for an outsider to top. My experience is the younger generations tend to bristle more when it comes from outside the Jewish community but this may be an American thing.
I agree the idea to beat the Arabs to the punch, is genius.
As for you getting your panties in a bunch, the pictures you find engaging, I find disgusting. That’s what freedom is about. I’m not going to burn anything down or riot in the streets nor will I stifle my opinion.
I know you’re not suggesting I do, I’m saying when you put up things like that you’re going to annoy some people and should expect them to show it. You were trying to provoke a response and you did, it just came in an unexpected form.
Your posts from the get-go have been geared to provoke rather than engage which is not the way to win friends an influence people. You claim not to want to win friends....fine, but I’ll bet you wish to influence people.
If you feel the backlash to your post is over the top, stop and look at your history here. :eyebrow:
I post pics here, ones I consider quite engaging, not allowed, I post a very funny joke whose essence goes way over your heads, I’m censored. No BS hypocritical hierarchy with a saturated perspective of the world is getting rid of me. If you do, you most definitely, eventually will feel shame. Status quo is comfy. Wave making newbie is a no no. Look at yourselves, not at me, when your disturbed, if you are capable. Ya, I am pi$$ed off at the close minded cloistered community here, but not pi$$ed off enough to leave, YET.
You haven't been censored, you've been criticized. And you responded by criticizing those who criticize you. Does that make you a censor?
Your posts are all still there in their entirety. Nothing has been deleted. You haven't been banned.
Stop whining.
"I hate you assholes! And the worst thing is, you don't want me around!!!"
You haven't been censored, you've been criticized.
I find it strange that he censored himself for some reason. Unless he's implying, uh, expensive urine. Or something.
I am pi$$ed off at the close minded cloistered community here, but not pi$$ed off enough to leave, YET.
This song was old the first time it was heard. Yawn.
piss piss piss PISS :eek:
When I am finished testing my parameters here you all will be the first to know.
:)
When I am finished testing my parameters here you all will be the first to know.
You're finished now.
The main reason I have never listed what offenses make one "intolerably irritating" is that,
inevitably, someone would take that as a list of things they could walk right up to the edge of, and then point to the list as evidence they were still ok.
"You can't do X." "Oh! Well I can do X minus 1 then! X minus 1, X minus 1, X minus 1 all daaay. X minus 1! I'm not touching you! Does this bug you? How about this? I'm not touching you!"
The "parameters" are not there to be "tested".
This is a community, not a game.
Goodbye, dov. You got exactly what you wanted. And you're right: everyone here is the first to know.
Do not provoke the Toad. :worried:
[SIZE=1]Eh, that was a knee-jerk reaction. Dov deserved it.[/SIZE]
I do hope it's not about me. This is not a job I want so much as a responsibility I have to accept.
Irving apparently is a perverse liar. His sentence apparently goes beyond the holocaust. ... That trial is more about the credibility and honesty of Irving - who has a problem with both human requirements.
So sue him for slander/libel. Charge him with inciting a riot. Disturbing the peace. Public menace or whatever. The fact that Irving's a class A-1 dickhead is not being debated -- just the state's response to it. It's still an awkward situation for Americans to contimplate.
As for the Danes and the protesters, I get the impression that the conversation's going something like this:
Cartoonists: We're not scared to print this image of the prophet Muhammed.
Extremists: Oh yeah? We'll make you scared! Uh, I mean, how dare you attempt to express an idea I find offensive!
The western world is acting like the parent of a angry teenager who has just discovered the right buttons to push to get what they want, every time.
Thanks for doing the dirty work, UT.
If I were in charge, I probably wouldn't have banned him, but who knows how I would feel if I had that responsibility on my shoulders. I certainly won't miss him.
Maybe it is about me after all. I could put it this way: I have no patience for it right now. I just got back from the two-hour return drive to put rack rails on the system. Rack rails for which I had to pay extra for overnight delivery. The system that, combined with the two other systems, cost big money to locate there. Except that one of the two other systems won't be paid for, increasing the cost for the Cellar system, because my business partnership turned out not to be so much of a partnership. Which in turn means there'll be less time to police the system, since I'll probably now return to a "normal" 60-hour/wk sysadmin job for the man, and under such conditions will probably either give up iotd or not police the system at all, so let's get rid of the people who just want to be assholes before that time huh.
UT, even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes, we appreciate everything that you do.
You could establish a DH for IOTD ...
It was all those pic's under "Paint it black" that did me in. Dov could be reasonable when he felt like it. He just very seldom felt like it.
And, him and humbug posting shit not marked NSFW. UT has threads for that.
Cool UT!
So sue him for slander/libel. Charge him with inciting a riot. Disturbing the peace. Public menace or whatever. The fact that Irving's a class A-1 dickhead is not being debated -- just the state's response to it. It's still an awkward situation for Americans to contimplate.
Well, first of all, American's need to contemplate that there are nations other than their own, and that these nations sometimes have perfectly valid reasons for enacting certain laws. The late dov to the contrary, many people in Germany and Austria didn't understand the full extent of the horror of the holocaust when it was going on. Auschwitz and its satellite camps were built in Poland. The village that had originally been on the same site was torn down and the villagers chased off by the Nazi's. There was a large no-man's zone surrounding each camp. Poles were actually the first to be imprisoned there. Any Pole who brought up what was going on would quickly find himself within the camp's confines.
Today's governments of Austria and Germany have taken a very hard line against those who state the holocaust never happened. I don't see what is so awkward to contemplate about that.
In addition, I can walk around here in the US, and , so can you, stating the holocaust never happened and the Austrians are not going to order my extradiction for trial. What Irving did was to go over to Europe, attend skinhead rallies in Austria where he made his statements and engage in a broadly publicized civil suit in Great Britain about the matter.
Now if you or I go to a foreign country, break its laws, and are photographed by the national media while doing so, nether one of us deserves to have a single tear shed on our behalf. Neither does Irving.
I'm certainly not crying. I'd personally like to kick Irving in the balls, as well as send him to prison. I just don't think censorship's the right way to go about serving him with what he deserves.
I'm certainly not crying. I'd personally like to kick Irving in the balls, as well as send him to prison. I just don't think censorship's the right way to go about serving him with what he deserves.
Which means you also find the free exchange and distribution of pedophilia acceptable? Is censorship not the right way to go about those who promote pedophilia pictures?
I thought DOV was a woman.
UT done good! :thumbsup:
Rack rails for which I had to pay extra for overnight delivery.
[SIZE=1](Looking for checkbook)[/SIZE] Thank you, Sir.
I think he meant 'censured' not 'censored'. Of course we all know the two words although very similar have slightly different meanings.
dov's gone?
thank god. it was getting so boring I was about to listen to genesis.
Whhhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh.
Guess I can stop holding my breath now. Ahhhh, much better.
Thanks to you, UT, for shoveling that stinking pile of shit off the porch here. I never even attempted to comment on anything that jerk wrote because I could tell from his first week onsite that this was all a game he was playing. It's called Mind Fuck. I've seen it played before and I'll confess having tried it myself when I was considerably less mature. The object is not to learn or expound anything, the only purpose is to confound the person(s) you are talking to at every turn. Even if it means spinning on your heels and reversing your previous position, you must never let the other person form a reply or get a handle on the bombast you are hurling at him, always be derisive and negative, and always crush down any attempt to point out facts or pin down one element to resolve it. The subject is irrelevant, the player gets his kicks from preventing anything other that the thread he controls from entering into the discussion. It is manipulative to the max, that is the sole purpose of the game, and I watched that jerk even switch directions and compliment some of you on your "astute observations" so that he could continue to play ringmaster and keep the game moving. I don't doubt that people who like this kind of thing are sociopaths. The game of Mind Fuck is a mainstay on college campuses where there are a lot of immature kids who are trying to make themselves appear powerful and clever, and there are lots of people the gamer can play with who have not reached the point in their lives of knowing what they believe or how to express it. Given the level of intellectual development at The Cellar, I'm amazed that nobody caught on. Dov was just pushing buttons and blowing smoke, he didn't have any agenda more important than making an increasingly disgusting mess and seeing how long we would put up with it.
I thought DOV was a woman.
He-- he wasn't? :redface:
Great analysis Tonch. The amazing thing was that he pretty much admitted it a few times. Like that's part of the game too -- like a criminal who leaves clues on purpose.
I commented earlier above that if I were in charge, I probably wouldn't have banned Dov, even though I didn't like him. After reading recent comments, Dov has become a little clearer to me. It's also clear to me that it's a good thing I'm not in charge. I don't have the instincts for it.
As is pretty obvious to everyone by now, UT did the right thing to ban Dov.
Thanks again UT.
Which means you also find the free exchange and distribution of pedophilia acceptable? Is censorship not the right way to go about those who promote pedophilia pictures?
Actually, that's a very good question. Arguably, you cannot create kiddie porn without harming the kiddies -- that's the legal basis for banning the porn. There's been a whole new can o' worms opened with the concept of "virtual" kiddies -- no real person is being hurt. I still haven't made up my mind on this one.
Yes, pedophiles harm children. Yes, they usually can't be rehabilitated. But unless we want to start giving everyone psych/genetic testing and eliminating all the "unfits", we have to draw the line somewhere.
Do the person's actions infringe upon the rights of others? (Where's Radar when I need him?)
- Pie
Yes, they usually can't be rehabilitated.
Source, please. I keep hearing the line "they can't be cured" and "they can't be rehabilitated", but my Abnormal Psych class and book said otherwise.
I'm making this up as I go along but I doubt that someone's sexual orientation can be rewired. Despite fundies claims that it is as easy as accepting you know who as you saviour etc., I know plenty of gays that found jesus and that didn't change things a lick. (ahem)
I also know of a couple of cases where parents have tried reprogramming a la cult reformation with imaginably disasterous results.
Like I said, I'm no expert and I'm just spinning this out of whole cloth but I don't think leopards can change their spots no matter a) how much they may truly want to or b) how much they tell their parole board they truly want to.
But what do I know?
Source, please. I keep hearing the line "they can't be cured" and "they can't be rehabilitated", but my Abnormal Psych class and book said otherwise.
Kit, I got no source. If you've taken Abnormal Psych (cool name) you're way ahead of me. I'm just quoting the prevailing wisdom, a la foot3.
So, what does the AP book say about pedophiles and their treatment?
-Pie
Thanks to you, UT, for shoveling that stinking pile of shit off the porch here. I never even attempted to comment on anything that jerk wrote because I could tell from his first week onsite that this was all a game he was playing. It's called Mind Fuck. I've seen it played before and I'll confess having tried it myself when I was considerably less mature. The object is not to learn or expound anything, the only purpose is to confound the person(s) you are talking to at every turn. Even if it means spinning on your heels and reversing your previous position, you must never let the other person form a reply or get a handle on the bombast you are hurling at him, always be derisive and negative, and always crush down any attempt to point out facts or pin down one element to resolve it. The subject is irrelevant, the player gets his kicks from preventing anything other that the thread he controls from entering into the discussion. It is manipulative to the max, that is the sole purpose of the game, and I watched that jerk even switch directions and compliment some of you on your "astute observations" so that he could continue to play ringmaster and keep the game moving. I don't doubt that people who like this kind of thing are sociopaths. The game of Mind Fuck is a mainstay on college campuses where there are a lot of immature kids who are trying to make themselves appear powerful and clever, and there are lots of people the gamer can play with who have not reached the point in their lives of knowing what they believe or how to express it. [color=red]Given the level of intellectual development at The Cellar, I'm amazed that nobody caught on.[/color] Dov was just pushing buttons and blowing smoke, he didn't have any agenda more important than making an increasingly disgusting mess and seeing how long we would put up with it.
you mean except for you, that is. i think pretty much everyone knew he was a troll. your putting it under the label of 'mind fuck' ( which is a corny term that is overused and underdescriptive) doesn't change it. i'm curious as to why you didn't express this opinion until after he was banned? is it a case of hindsight, or were you scared of him? i'm left with the taste of condescendingnessosity* in my mouth after reading your post. you practicing to be tw's apprentice?
[size=1]*yeah, i made it up[/size]
Kit, I got no source. If you've taken Abnormal Psych (cool name) you're way ahead of me. I'm just quoting the prevailing wisdom, a la foot3.
So, what does the AP book say about pedophiles and their treatment?
-Pie
That's okay, because I don't officially have a source on hand, either. (I sold the book back.) :p I shouldn't have, either, because the whole book was wonderfully interesting. Oh, the disorders and cased studies discussed in "infamous chapter 9" (sexual disorders, fetishes, etc) gave me a peek into a very, very different world.
I remember the rehab rate was actually pretty high, but I don't remember what the actualy percentage was. Well over 50%, I'm certain. Drugs in previous trials were ineffective, however, but certain cognitive-behavioral programs that involved something akin to "sexual reconditioning" were effective that resulted in no returns to disruptive thoughts or actions after years of followup. Dr. Fred Berlin wrote an interesting article that stated that pedophilia is very treatable and that the medical community should give the treatment options more attention and help make people aware.
Anyways, the argument... a graphic representation that hurts no one does just that: hurts no one. You can't get the thought police involved and into people's heads, only the physical actions of a person hold legal ground for action. Do we ban books about serial killers? Do we ban movies about terrorism? What of media that glorifies criminals? Should we make illegal anything that is a graphical representation of something illegal? Fantasies are just that and people need to seek help if they find their desires interfering with their lives and emotions. Forced treatment and arrest only come with threats and actions.
There are many violent, harmful, dangerous, and potentially illegal sexual desires that people have besides pedophilia. There is plenty of pornograpy, legally questionable and not, that caters to those fetishes. Locking everyone up that has a fantasy concerning forced sex, mutilation, violence, etc, etc, would push the system to the limits and solve nothing. Society needs to be concerned with those who show true warning signs, not the millions that write, create, distribute, or consume the questional materials and never physically act on their fantasies.
you mean except for you, that is. i think pretty much everyone knew he was a troll. your putting it under the label of 'mind fuck' ( which is a corny term that is overused and underdescriptive) doesn't change it. i'm curious as to why you didn't express this opinion until after he was banned? is it a case of hindsight, or were you scared of him? i'm left with the taste of condescendingnessosity* in my mouth after reading your post. you practicing to be tw's apprentice?
Not scared of HIM, LJ, just totally disinterested in letting him get his rocks off by attacking ME to divert attention further from what he was doing here. In other words, this is not my forum. It is *yours*, and it is not my position to decide who you play with or how. Maybe some of you were having fun too, up to a point. I have most charactistically been a lurker, I prefer to drive around train wrecks and mass murders because I can learn more from watching how other people handle the situation than by getting bogged down in them myself. It makes no sense at all to argue with somebody whose only purpose is to disrupt and challenge the limits. I never thought he was a troll, just a jerk who was too twisted to control his impulses to fuck with your mind instead of have a productive exchange of views. If you think the term is corny, keep in mind that I got it from exactly those people I first observed playing it back in the '60s. It's a game that nobody is supposed to win except them, so DON'T PLAY.
So how do you figure I think I am the only one... etc.? I am not taking credit for anything, just expressing surprise that so many clear-thinking people with IQs and abilities so much greater than mine were willing to play his game for so long. Some people told him off or put him on their ignore list, but enough kept on playing to keep Dov happy until UT pulled the plug. That's what Dov's kind of person is good at, pulling the strings that keep us playing. As for any comparison with the great TW, jedi master of the rant, I am not worthy :notworthy But thanks for thinking of me.
On occasion you get a newbie that will be obnoxious simply because that’s all they’ve seen on the net. You know what I’m talking about, there’s plenty of it out there.
If they are smart enough to see it draws a negative reaction and tone it down, they just might have something of value to contribute.
I’ll defer to the elder geeks and their experience in spotting bad apples. But, when the spaceship door opens and you blast away with a 12 gauge the minute they show, you might miss out on a wonderful anal probing. :borg:
Kitsune, you have again reaffirmed my faith in your intelligence. Well said.
- Pie
Society needs to be concerned with those who show true warning signs, not the millions that write, create, distribute, or consume the questional materials and never physically act on their fantasies.
And stop harassing parents that take photos of their naked children in the bathtub or backyard pool. :mad:
think pretty much everyone knew he was a troll. your putting it under the label of 'mind fuck' ... doesn't change it. i'm curious as to why you didn't express this opinion until after he was banned? is it a case of hindsight, or were you scared of him?
Dov was not a problem to anyone if that person had enough wintin to appreciate him. Notice my one simple exchange with him.
Isolationism
He defines the code as red but uses black letters. Now I understand.
UT understood. Although maybe he got the tense wrong. I was not going to be played. And yet I enjoyed watching him play on others.
Dov baits with illogic. No big deal. One simply ignores such illogic and looks beyond - to see his game. When asked to define what he was saying, he provided and I replied with more illogic. Fine. Just read what he posts and ignore those silly emotions that some here cannot suppress. He is (probably) young and flayling. Simply a person trying to learn to swim while still claiming he already knows how to swim. Did you find humor in that? I did.
Barak played a same game here on The Cellar, Mark I(?) He would make these wild claims about race relations, cite from his book, and hype so many here into a frenzy. The problem was not Barak so much as it was others who would be incited by Barak's mocking of 'you white boys'.
Those who were in The Cellar back then may recall when I joined the fray with a set of posts entitled "Hey Professor!" after Barak finally posted some numbers from his book. Guess what. After exposing those numbers as manipulated fraud - that any high school algebra student could have seen through - suddenly Barak disappearred. Completely stopped posting. Never heard another post from him.
Dov was just as intimidating. Appreciate what he really said and have no emotion. Then he is harmless. Yes he baited some. I found it totally amusing as I also found Barak amusing. Barak also said silly things that others got so incensed - for zero reasons. Especially - I think - Barak's repeated use of the phrase "you white boys". So entertaining to see nonsense from Barak and Dov AND to see others get so upset over what was intended to be nothing but nonsense.
Yes he talks in red; but posts in black. Did you appreciate what I was really posting? It was not just a response to Dov.
So how do you figure I think I am the only one... etc.?
just the way you phrased what i quoted in red.
you're amazed we didn't catch on. kind of self explanitory
and....tw, i got you yet again.
Actually, that's a very good question. Arguably, you cannot create kiddie porn without harming the kiddies -- that's the legal basis for banning the porn. There's been a whole new can o' worms opened with the concept of "virtual" kiddies -- no real person is being hurt. I still haven't made up my mind on this one.
Yes, pedophiles harm children. Yes, they usually can't be rehabilitated.
Recidivism among pedophiles is reported to be one of the lowest among criminals - about 15%. Crimes such as vehicle theft are typically 60+%. Above being a secondary point.
Primary point: one can appreciate Austria's fear or need (which one is part of a larger question) to make such holocaust laws that would otherwise be a violation of free speech. There is a line somewhere - subjectively. And that is the point.
However Irving all but flaunted that law. As long as he stayed out of Austria, then there would be no extradition. But Irving was either so obviously bold or so simply stupid as to go to Austria to give a speech to right wing extremist students. He all but begged Austria to enforce their laws. Austria did just that. IOW the purpose and enforcement of that law becomes secondary. The real penalty to Irving is because 1) he outrightly lied to the court about his change of opinion, and 2) he outrightly challenged Austria to enforce their laws.
Need we also cite an unfortunate American example - Dr Kevorkian?
you're amazed we didn't catch on. kind of self explanitory
If you had caught on, then you didn't and still don't care what dov had posted. His posts were totally irrelevant to one who understood. This being a Cliff Note version of my previous post.
All true tw. I think we proved, in Mark 1, that it was possible to show everyone that if they simply ignored such people, they would go away. One problem is, there are now more users. So A) there are so many more attention whores - they are now worldwide, and B) it's harder to educate everyone and motivate them around the common cause of a passive silent treatment.
If you had caught on, blah blah blah
shut up you silly old man.
and by shut up, i mean lecture me for 3 or 4 hundred lines about my emotions.
i was telling tonchi that she's saying that she was the only one that recognized that he was a troll....but by calling it something different....which he wasn't.
All true tw. I think we proved, in Mark 1, that it was possible to show everyone that if they simply ignored such people, they would go away. One problem is, there are now more users. So A) there are so many more attention whores - they are now worldwide, and B) it's harder to educate everyone and motivate them around the common cause of a passive silent treatment.
we need a code word.
we need a code word.
Those who remember him would appreciate why this code word would honor him accordingly.
Barak. He was a most amusing character (to be contrasted with another most amusing character - Richard Feynman).
Additional note. I forgot Barak's first name. Searched for his book. Could only find a professor of same name who (I believe) is not him. Anyone remember who Barak (who had to be in the Philly area) is or where is book is found (or was it published by Vanity Press)?
call someone "Barak" and we ice them. got it.
All true tw. I think we proved, in Mark 1, that it was possible to show everyone that if they simply ignored such people, they would go away. One problem is, there are now more users. So A) there are so many more attention whores - they are now worldwide, and B) it's harder to educate everyone and motivate them around the common cause of a passive silent treatment.
I'd rather the new users figure it out or try to convert the attention whores. Of course this comes from someone who anonymoused humbug. *shrug* I just don't want banning to become commonplace.
that was YOU?!
you candy ass
Well at least I thought it was funny. :)
just keep turning left. eventually, you'll get there.
humbug and dov got tossed for being really awful. I used the anonymous sign in to tell humbug in a round about way that he needed to rein it in. I guess I shoulda gone toe to toe, but I thought it was funnier that way.
I didn't realize humbug got tossed. he was getting odd, but I mostly ignored him. curous to see your anon message.
LJ, you were right; after I made three lefts.
I didn't realize humbug got tossed. he was getting odd, but I mostly ignored him. curous to see your anon message.
LJ, you were right; after I made three lefts.
bugger off! :cool:
Of course this comes from someone who anonymoused humbug.
Oh, now we're sharing our alts?
If you show me yours I'll show you mine. :blush:
squirell nutkin, my evil, tailless twin.
Oh, now we're sharing our alts?
If you show me yours I'll show you mine. :blush:
That alt is already shared. When its funny its me. When its COCK that'd be Jimbo.
I still don't know who put lumber on the ignore list. That was amusing.
I still don't know who put lumber on the ignore list. That was amusing.
Maybe they'll fess up on the "revelations and confessions" thread. :eyebrow:
Recidivism among pedophiles is reported to be one of the lowest among criminals - about 15%. Crimes such as vehicle theft are typically 60+%. Above being a secondary point.
Yes, I agreed to entertain this concept when Kitsune pointed it out, above.
Primary point: one can appreciate Austria's fear or need (which one is part of a larger question) to make such holocaust laws that would otherwise be a violation of free speech. There is a line somewhere - subjectively. And that is the point.
All I am trying to say is that I am not happy with the Austrian's
location of that line. Capisci? I think I've said it two or three times now.
However Irving all but flaunted that law. As long as he stayed out of Austria, then there would be no extradition. But Irving was either so obviously bold or so simply stupid as to go to Austria to give a speech to right wing extremist students. He all but begged Austria to enforce their laws. Austria did just that. IOW the purpose and enforcement of that law becomes secondary. The real penalty to Irving is because 1) he outrightly lied to the court about his change of opinion, and 2) he outrightly challenged Austria to enforce their laws.
Need we also cite an unfortunate American example - Dr Kevorkian?
Fine whatever, throw them all in the klink. The ONLY point I was trying to make is that the definition of that "line" is awfully important.
tw, you're very good at arguing with yourself.
You know, I'm bad at this. I'm computer handicapped and more emotional than rational, but, to get back to the argument (sort of): there ARE depictions-paintings, tile-work, of the big M, dating back to the Middle Ages. Probably, this has been brought up. And, "B", have any of you read OBL '98 article entitled 'Jihad'-? and, Islam is a religion of peace? Mohammed didn't say so. He was in favor of smiting. Smiting them (at least me, a sinner*) good.
*and, i'm sinning now! SMOKING!!!!! HA! however, the flower pot ashtray is not working as well as I thought it would.
I dunno, I guess they all went home.
tw, you're very good at arguing with yourself.
Who's arguing? If you think I am arguing, then you have no grasp of the constructive intent in my posts. Provided are talking points (examples) to frame a definition, a principle, or a better comprehension of this subjective concept called 'freedom of speech'. To define limits upon which one can challenge a law with legitimate reasons.
Why does free speech in Austria get to be less than in America and still be considered acceptable or not acceptable? The answer to that is found in reasons or guidelines. Examples were posted to help define or justify those guidelines. Instead you think I am arguing with you? Of course not. We should be moving onto a better understanding or better principles upon which to judge Irving, pedophiles, and Kevorkian.
Upon what basis or principles would one judge the innocence or guilty nature of each? Even subjective judgments are not valid without underlying reasons or principles. What would those principles be that Pie might use to decide? There is no argument. There exists a open ended question just begging to be challenged by one's grasp of worldly ideas.
One can think those Mohammed Cartoons are acceptable or are worthy of killing. OK. Why? Upon what principles does one make such decisions?
You know, I'm bad at this. I'm computer handicapped and more emotional than rational, but, to get back to the argument (sort of): there ARE depictions-paintings, tile-work, of the big M, dating back to the Middle Ages. Probably, this has been brought up.
Yeah, this is now like the third time someone has mentioned that, but who's counting? Apparently the artists who did create those depictions of the big M are
not going to have virgins in paradise. Just jaded ladies like you and me and I've sworn off Muslims for Lent, so its gonna be up to you girl! ;)
And, "B", have any of you read OBL '98 article entitled 'Jihad'-? and, Islam is a religion of peace? Mohammed didn't say so. He was in favor of smiting. Smiting them (at least me, a sinner*) good.
Not a good path to wander down. Do you realize how many jillions Jehovah Himself smote in the Old Testament? Christianity? A religion of peace?
ps I like your new sig - is that Chaucer I'm reading?
ps I like your new sig - is that Chaucer I'm reading?
Are you joking? :eek:
Are you joking? :eek:
No, people really don't beleive I have brain hiccups, but I do. What is it? :confused:
Thank you. If its not in words that I use every day, its unfortunately gone. I'd like to say that would have been my second guess, but probably my second guess would have been Beowulf or something. Oh, well. :blush:
this thread is rife with tangents.
Yaweh is a big smiter. he'll smite the everliving shit outta ya.
to me, that's why religions are bunk. it's so obvious that they are written by man to control man. I think a true religion is purely personal. no two people are the same, so no two religions should be the same.
I think a true religion is purely personal.
My take: being spiritual? Good. Being religious? Bad. You don't have to be religious to be spiritual, don't have to be spiritual to be religious.
You're right about the control part. Religions are like the military -- some people need structure, need to be told what to do. I'll stay away from both.
"What wrong can there be in telling a downright good lie for a good cause and the advancement of the Christian Church?" --Martin Luther :right:
I think a true religion is purely personal. no two people are the same, so no two religions should be the same.
If any two people agree on religion, at least one of them is wrong?
If any two people agree on religion, at least one of them is wrong?
could any two people absolutely agree on anything?
er, i mean.....only if they were standing in the woods and there was no woman around to hear them.
no two people are the same, so no two religions should be the same.
Exactly. If any two religions were the same, they would be one religion. ;)
But your point is well taken. As one who was raised Catholic, I was fortunate to have learned from military priests who, on average, were much less dogmatic and much more practical than some of their old-world brethren. I don't think any religion can mean the exact same thing to two different people. Some religions and religious leaders can handle that and some can't.
Exactly. If any two religions were the same, they would be one religion.
Just ask the Shia and Sunnis. Yeph. Same religion.
or the catholics and protestants
Or the Steelers and the Dolphins.
But, that doesn't matter here.
I return you to your regular programming, already in progress.
I want just who misrule Islam,,, What do u know abt Islam & prophet Mohammed (PBUH) ,, Our prophet commanded us 2 respect other's religion & don't hurt them, He commanded us 2 respect u christians, we r all ppl & equals, & now how did u rewarded him, u replayed him?!!! don't u feel a shame. how will u feel if one of us muslims draw a sign of ur religion wiz the same way or just draw anyone's parents or even u!! that's y we were upset. not as some said it's near 4rom the true ,,, everyone believe in his religion & ur opinion in others religion don't give u the permission 2 quarrel Islam, Just say:" I belive in christianity"
Our prophet commanded us 2 respect other's religion
It's a shame our prophet didn't command people to respect the English language.
Muslima, did you know this thread was over a year old before you posted to it?
, we r all ppl & equals, & now how did u rewarded him, u replayed him?!!!
Man, back to school in September seems a long way off.
Probably, Muslima learned English by texting. I believe the official language of Kuwait is Arabic. She has obviously an insular view of the world and doesn't comprehend what's really going on, rather than a troll like Duck Duck.
I believe the official language of Kuwait is Arabic.
That is true.
She has obviously an insular view of the world and doesn't comprehend what's really going on, rather than a troll like Duck Duck.
My first thought was the cultural differences. We make fun of every religion in the western world and a cultural difference can easily make something like that to be hostile especially with all the problems in the past few years.
Islam is a very misunderstood religion as well. The similiarities between it and Christianity (they worship the same god) are very apparent.
Probably, Muslima learned English by texting. I believe the official language of Kuwait is Arabic. She has obviously an insular view of the world and doesn't comprehend what's really going on, rather than a troll like Duck Duck.
atleast i know how 2 speak english, French.what abt u??
if u opened a british dictionary u'll understand me !!
& if there were a mistake while typing, I wanna say that we aren't all perfect & complete...
if there is a mistake u can ask me 2 correct & translate it 4 u..
atlast it's simply ur problem not mine!
ya if therz a mistak thn u can ask me cuz i spell reel good nd at use good english lik the dictionary.
jst look it up n a british dic. cuz dey spell lyk thiz 2. lolol!!one!!1!1!11one
atleast i know how 2 speak english, French.what abt u??
if u opened a british dictionary u'll understand me !!
& if there were a mistake while typing, I wanna say that we aren't all perfect & complete...
if there is a mistake u can ask me 2 correct & translate it 4 u..
atlast it's simply ur problem not mine!
Muslima, if you want to get respect on this forum or any forum like this you will need to stop using symbols and shortcuts like those. You will start to find out that people will just start ignoring you and will just make a joke of whatever you say.
Precisely. There is no reason at all to resort to txtmsg rebus-speak. We are, after all, using full-size computer screens here.
I'm inclined to think Muslima has that much fluency in English anyway -- note her rebus-chat is both voluble and accurate. This does not address typing skill, though...
thank you Urbane Guerrilla :) , why did you all change the subject? what do you know about Islam, I swear that all what you think about Islam are completly false, if you search in your history you will find that we used to love eachothers, Still here in Kwt & arab countries christians & muslims love eachother & my best friend is christian too.
you can ask anyone lives here in Kwt about muslims.
am not saying that for anything am saying it just to correct your view.
So it is false that Allah will allow everyone who worships a monotheist religion to go to heaven, even if that person is a Christian? ;)
From what I have seen, Islam have been the most misunderstood major religion because of the lack of contact most people have with Islam and only stereotypical actions are exposed to the public in the United States. It is only the extremists that make TV, not moderates.
But you do have to remember cultural differences too Muslima. What is considered to be insulting in Kuwait could very well be considered normal in the west. I think the cartoon shows this very well. While I can see how the cartoon is insulting because it not only shows the prophet Mohammed (PBUH) as a terrorist but stereotypes the whole Islamic population as bloodthirsty suicide bombers which is very far from the truth as most Muslim moderates are just violent as moderate Christians. Though, I doubt the cartoon was meant to be an insult to the Muslim people, but just poking fun at the stereotype itself.
Muslima, pierce raises an interesting point. The whole issue of the cartoons, demonstrated not so much the religious divide as the cultural one. In the west, cartoons and lampoonery of respected and important figures (political and religious) has a long history. It is just something we do.
what do you know about Islam, I swear that all what you think about Islam are completly false
I think you are falling into the trap of assuming everybody on this board shares a similar opinion on Islam, and has experienced similar levels of exposure to people of that faith. This isn't so.
Whilst I'd be the first to admit that there is a rising tide, amongst some elements of British society, of Islamophobia, for the most part Islam as a faith has been welcomed in Britain. There have been sticky cultural issues to get to grips with, but they have generally been, as I say, cultural, rather than religious. (e.g., the level of covering a woman is expected to use; the level of choice involved in marriage; domestic violence in the guise of 'honour').
These issues have provoked tensions amongst both the non-Islamic and the Islamic parts of our community, but there's a lot of cross cultural communication and we have a large population of British Moslems of varying cultural heritages.
From what I have seen, Islam have been the most misunderstood major religion because of the lack of contact most people have with Islam and only stereotypical actions are exposed to the public in the United States. It is only the extremists that make TV, not moderates.
And whose fault is that? Not the TV's... As I have recently posted in other threads, the broadcast media is making an attempt to expose the deafining silence that the Moderate Muslims continue to maintain in the face of their otherwise beautiful religion as it becomes co-opted by extremists.
what do you know about Islam, I swear that all what you think about Islam are completly false
Muslima, first and foremost Selam Aleykum. I just want you to know that you are not the only Muslim on this board and I am sure if you hang around you will find this forum to be unlike most internet forums, mainly in part to the quality of people you will find here.
I would also like to chime in and say that I am one of the few here who can rightly claim to have visited several predominantly Muslim countries in the Middle East (twice).
I found that most people there welcomed me freely, didn't care about my religion and tolerated my attempts to speak Arabic, even correcting me if I butchered the language too badly.
That said, I was also shot at more than once. So, not ALL people there were happy at my presence. I tend to doubt that it was because I drank Coke (owned by a Jew) publicly, as was suggested by a fellow traveler. I think it was more the fact that I am an American, traveling under the Stars and Stripes. They were more interested in my nationality and striking at The Great Satan (their term, not mine).
I do not fault all Muslims for this, only the extremists who encourage this violence in the name of God. To be fair, I also fault extremists of ANY religion who attempt to force their views on others.
If the violence would stop, I would be happy to visit that area again someday. Until the locals step up and stop hiding these thugs, the violence will continue. Do Arabs have shunning like our Mennonites do? Perhaps that will help.
We cannot force people to stop killing each other over there. It is not our job or business. Only THEY can stop it. When the leaders of the affected countries stand up to these radicals and say "NO MORE!"; when they say that Allah is a merciful God and does not condone the murder of innocents in His name, THEN maybe everyone can breathe easier.
How many more bombings of public areas will the citizens there tolerate? Seventeen were killed last night alone. Is a civil war what it takes to end violence? Does violence beget violence? Can't we all just get along? Guess not.
I have no answers, only questions and more questions.
Welcome to the Cellar, stay and enjoy the company...I do. There is lively debate here and many different opinions. Feel free to disagree or agree as suits you but be warned, intolerance is not tolerated. :)
Also, please use proper English as found in either Oxford's or Webster's dictionaries. Text-speak is annoying and hard on the eyes. It is unfortunate that few here can speak Arabic to you and thus there are difficulties in translation from one to the other. We will strive to understand this but you must also understand that words mean things here and some are quick to jump to the wrong conclusions based on what you have said, even if it is not what you meant.
Now it's time for me to get back to work and stop goofing off.
Brian
And whose fault is that? Not the TV's... As I have recently posted in other threads, the broadcast media is making an attempt to expose the deafining silence that the Moderate Muslims continue to maintain in the face of their otherwise beautiful religion as it becomes co-opted by extremists.
Must have missed that unless you are talking about the five or so articles that you gave me on the Bush thread. But I didn't see anything about mainstream media on there.
Islam is exactly like christianity unless you are part of one or the other.
Same great message, same thought, same god... same fundamentalist assholes ruining it for everyone.
Must have missed that unless you are talking about the five or so articles that you gave me on the Bush thread. But I didn't see anything about mainstream media on there.
http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=14770 first two posts.
Same great message, same thought, same god... same fundamentalist assholes ruining it for everyone.
Nooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. [size=1] Cardinal Fang. The cushy pillow.[/size]
The stupidity of actions justified by religion is that funny. Black humor in red robes.
Islam is exactly like christianity unless you are part of one or the other.
Really? When did the Christian's rise up, riot, and kill people in the last 20 years because the NY Times ran a cartoon of Jesus in the paper? How about a Jew joke? When did they rise up and chop off someones head because someone made fun of their God? Hmmmmmm....
Really? When did the Christian's rise up, riot, and kill people in the last 20 years because the NY Times ran a cartoon of Jesus in the paper? How about a Jew joke? When did they rise up and chop off someones head because someone made fun of their God? Hmmmmmm....
One, the actions of a few DO NOT represents the views of the majority. Two, I think earlier on this thread they showed that it was only around 1,000 people in the entire world that protested against the cartoons.
Anyways, you can't compare modern Islam to modern Christianity because Christianity has become liberalized. To compare the two you would have to ask what would 13-16th century Christians do? Those are people that attacked Jerusalem just because they felt like they owned it, tried to kill off an entire continent, and the paranoia with the Salem witch trials. The closest you can get is to compare them to the Christians that bomb abortion clinics and protest at soldier’s funerals. Conservative religions never have a good reputation when it comes to violence and you can not single Islam out as violent since both Christianity and Judaism have been very violent in the past.
what would 13-16th century Christians do?
Off topic.
you can not single Islam out as violent since both Christianity and Judaism have been very violent in the past.
Exactly--just like I can own slaves, and you can't criticize me for it because America used to have legal slavery in the past.
One, the actions of a few DO NOT represents the views of the majority. Two, I think earlier on this thread they showed that it was only around 1,000 people in the entire world that protested against the cartoons.
There was over a thousand in London alone.
Exactly--just like I can own slaves, and you can't criticize me for it because America used to have legal slavery in the past.
I criticize them, I think in both scenarios they are wrong but I am not going to criticize their whole religion or country as naturally violent because of it. If Islam is liberalized than it will be no more violent or peaceful than Christianity just like if your country gets rid of slavery, it will be no more ethically different from our perspective.
Anyways, the Muslims that are violent are a minority in the religion and for the regions that violence is widespread, it is most likely religion.
TheMercenary ,,
what would be your reaction towards who make a joke of your father?!! (we can call it freedom) I think you won't leave him until teaching him a lesson,,
our prophet is more than a father.. if u accept it on your father,, i think we will too!!!
"Thousands of angry Muslims have taken to the streets in Arab capitals, in other Muslim countries and in Europe. "
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-02/2006-02-07-voa9.cfm?CFID=159501572&CFTOKEN=92160901
"On Friday 500 demonstrators marched from Regent's Park Mosque to the Danish embassy in Knightsbridge to protest at the publication of "blasphemous" cartoons in a Danish newspaper, and subsequently in other countries and on the BBC."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/05/nflag05.xml
"At the root of the problem a dozen of ironic cartoon strips on Mohammad, published in September by Jyllands-Posten. One for example, depicts the prophet wearing a turban form bomb, another shows him telling smoking kamikazes on their arrival among the clouds that "there are no virgins left", an ironic take on the prize that await martyrs in heaven.
Of course in the Islamic world no one has actually seen these cartoons, but accusations launched against the daily by the media and politicians have catalyzed a growing reaction, which has spread to include Norway, given that an Oslo daily has labelled the strip as "blasphemous"."
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=5256&size=TheMercenary ,,
what would be your reaction towards who make a joke of your father?!! (we can call it freedom) I think you won't leave him until teaching him a lesson,,
our prophet is more than a father.. if u accept it on your father,, i think we will too!!!
Well, I don't think I would insite riots, burn down buildings, threaten the cartoonist with death, or cause general mayhem... but that's just me.
Nor would I do any of this:
"Beirut (AsiaNews) – Saudi Arabia has recalled its ambassador in Copenhagen, Libya has close its diplomatic offices, in Iraq people blame them for recent bomb attacks against churches there, in Gaza demonstrations were held in front of EU offices, with shots fired in the air; the strong backlash from the Islamic world to a series of cartoons depicting Mohammad, published in a Danish newspaper, unimaginable to most western minds. Burnt flags, political condemnation, and appeals for a boycott are involving even traditionally moderate Islamic nations, like Jordan, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait. "
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=5256&size=Sure you won't because he is just your father not a father of millions, who represent them.
What difference does that make?
Nor would I do any of this as a peace loving {insert fav religion name here}:
Indian Muslim group calls for beheading of writer
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015692.php
"At a convention on the subject of "Pluralism in Islam" which took place in late August, 2004 at the Egyptian Journalists' Union in Cairo, Sheikh Dr. Yousef Al-Qaradhawi, a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood movement and one of the most important religious authorities in Islamist circles, issued a religious legal opinion permitting the abduction and killing of American civilians in Iraq in order to pressure the American army to evacuate its forces."
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP79404
"Unlike some other people I do remember that although Salman Rushdie himself was not killed because of the fatwa against him by the despicable Khomeini, several translators of his book "Satanic Verses" were attacked and the Japanese translator of the book was killed.
Until recently I did not know the exact date he was slaughtered or even his name.
He was murdered on July "
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=22940
There really are to many examples to continue...
Well, I don't think I would insite riots, burn down buildings, threaten the cartoonist with death, or cause general mayhem... but that's just me.
what makes you sure that muslims did that? why don't you think that special sources who want that to destroy Islam,, or why don't you think that the same special sources bribe cartoonist, to let people forget the trespassing.
actually, those people don't belong to Islam they are muslims by name only & we don't consider them muslims.
my question now, do you all know your religion very well, and do you all obey what god asked you to?!!, do thugs & criminals represent thier religions?? if it was,, i think your country too full of them & i can judge your religion through them!!
We tell jokes about Jesus. They are regarded as jokes in rather poor taste, but not poor enough that we can't tell them.
[Perhaps the pleasantest of these jokes is the one where Jesus is defending the woman taken in adultery, saying, "Let him who is without (this) sin throw the first stone."
A stone flies out of the crowd. Jesus looks to see who threw it and cries out, "Mo-om!!"]
Can you make that free with Muhammed, On Whom Be Peace (and certain of his followers should be following that example and not that of The Old Man of the Mountain), without getting sentenced to stoning?
what makes you sure that muslims did that?
You're the one who said:
what would be your reaction towards who make a joke of your father?!! (we can call it freedom) I think you won't leave him until teaching him a lesson,,
It sounds like you were assuming it was Muslims trying to teach some sort of lesson.
sure i said that but the lesson that we gave it to them was stop dealing with those people,, what i meant by the ques. that if it was your father you'll do more than stop dealing with this person. after this replay please read my last one.
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Jesus walks into an inn, hands the innkeeper some nails and says, "Can you put me up for the night?"
[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Why can't Jesus eat M&M's?
[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]They keep falling through his hands.
===============
Let the rioting begin.
[/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT]
what makes you sure that muslims did that? why don't you think that special sources who want that to destroy Islam,, or why don't you think that the same special sources bribe cartoonist, to let people forget the trespassing.
actually, those people don't belong to Islam they are muslims by name only & we don't consider them muslims.
If you don't consider them muslims why do you let them represent you?
Why don't
you denounce them?
Why don't
you stop them?
Don't you understand we couldn't care less about islam, you could practice your religion and live happily ever after, if you didn't let these thugs and murderers represent you. There is a price to pay for your schadenfreude.
"On Friday 500 demonstrators marched from Regent's Park Mosque to the Danish embassy in Knightsbridge to protest at the publication of "blasphemous" cartoons in a Danish newspaper, and subsequently in other countries and on the BBC."
500 demonstrators in London? That's not exactly a groundswell of support amongst our muslim countrymen. I'm pretty sure I could get ten times that amount to march in defense of our right to wear stripey socks. Christ, Mark Thomas managed to get several hundred people to stage several hundred individual, simultaneous protests in parliament square to raise awareness of the laws concerning demonstrations in parliament square. Pretty much any reasonably well attended mosque you care to name could, if need be, get 500 people to go protest in London; as could your average, well attended urban church.
The majority of muslims I've spoken to about that whole cartoon thing expressed offense at the cartoon, but did not support the threats and demonstrations at all. They have a right to be offended. Just as we have a right to give that offense. We really mustn't get too strung out judging a billion and a half muslims worldwide, by the actions of a few thousand souls.
xoxoxoBruce,,
ofcourse you know that Kwt Is an Islamic country.
i swear i swear i swear that the last year there were Extremists living in a bulding beside mine, & i wakeup one day on the voice of shooting.
there were a tank & army soldiers standing infront of our bulding,, you know why?!! to kill those extremists & finally they were killed, why we didn't leave them alive isn't they muslims as you say!!
they aren't muslims they pretend Islam, that's it. they kill innocence people not only from other religions but they kill muslims too. & islam means peace so there is no place for criminals.
If you don't consider them muslims why do you let them represent you?
Why don't you denounce them?
Why don't you stop them?
Don't you understand we couldn't care less about islam, you could practice your religion and live happily ever after, if you didn't let these thugs and murderers represent you. There is a price to pay for your schadenfreude.
That kind of ranting is starting to sound like duck_duck's.
Why do you let invaders into your country??
Why do you let yourself kill eachother???
Why is your country falling apart????
Why don't you stop them?????
If you have an idea
how to stop them then state it but to question like that will get nothing done except cause anger.
500 demonstrators in London? That's not exactly a groundswell of support amongst our muslim countrymen. I'm pretty sure I could get ten times that amount to march in defense of our right to wear stripey socks.
Are these your stripey socks demonstrators?
xoxoxoBruce,,
ofcourse you know that Kwt Is an Islamic country.
i swear i swear i swear that the last year there were Extremists living in a bulding beside mine, & i wakeup one day on the voice of shooting.
there were a tank & army soldiers standing infront of our bulding,, you know why?!! to kill those extremists & finally they were killed, why we didn't leave them alive isn't they muslims as you say!!
they aren't muslims they pretend Islam, that's it. they kill innocence people not only from other religions but they kill muslims too. & islam means peace so there is no place for criminals.
Apparently some of your neighboring countries don't feel the same way. As a matter of fact, most of them. Why is that? Are they not muslim countries also? Don't you think the muslim clerics started telling there people to root out the violent element, to rid the community of these butchers? Don't you think that would be more productive, more benefit to muslims, than complaining the west doesn't understand you?
That kind of ranting is starting to sound like duck_duck's.
Why do you let invaders into your country??
Why do you let yourself kill eachother???
Why is your country falling apart????
Why don't you stop them?????
If you have an idea how to stop them then state it but to question like that will get nothing done except cause anger.
Fuck you. You can kiss this kids ass, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to her bitch about how I'm letting extremists sully her reputation. They're not representing me, they're representing her, so it's on her to stop them if she feels they are not an accurate representation.
People will think ill of you if a dog comes out of your yard and bites people, even if it's not your dog. Fair or not, that's the way it is.
Are these your stripey socks demonstrators?
No. They are hard line militant islamists protesting against cartoons. There are, however, very few of them. My colleagues and I used to routinely get a greater number of people to stage ad hoc counter demos whenever the NF were in town. The level of their unpleasantness in no way diminishes the paucity of their numbers.
Fuck you. You can kiss this kids ass, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to her bitch about how I'm letting extremists sully her reputation. They're not representing me, they're representing her, so it's on her to stop them if she feels they are not an accurate representation.
No they aren't representing her. Unless she voted for them to represent her, they are self appointed spokesmen for their own interpretation of one of the world's major religions. It is not up to her to stop them, anymore than it is up to you, personally, to stop the KKK.
I haven't checked the news; how goeth the rioting?
I haven't checked the news; how goeth the rioting?
Have fun storming the castle! :p
Fuck you. You can kiss this kids ass, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to her bitch about how I'm letting extremists sully her reputation. They're not representing me, they're representing her, so it's on her to stop them if she feels they are not an accurate representation.
People will think ill of you if a dog comes out of your yard and bites people, even if it's not your dog. Fair or not, that's the way it is.
The extremists don't represent me as much as Ann Coulter wouldn't represent you. You have to see that the reason most of these Islamic countries in the middle east hate America is not because America is Christian, it's because America keeps fucking with them. Iraq for example, no WMD's but supposedly, GW wanted to liberate the nation of tyrannical ruler. Why not liberate Darfur where MILLIONS are being slaughtered or North Korea, who not only has a tyrannical ruler but also definitely has WMD's, for a fact! Because they're not sitting on a giant oil reserves, that’s why. Remember "bad guys" seldom think they are.
Darfur is also a case of Muslims abusing Christians -- and others.
Government power rests in Khartoum. Hatred has gripped Khartoum. The Darfuri don't have guns, nor helicopter gunships.
Gov't power + hatred + disarmed targets = a genocide.
A genocide means no one will weep if the leadership of Khartoum ends up hanging by their necks from lampposts.
No. They are hard line militant islamists protesting against cartoons. There are, however, very few of them. My colleagues and I used to routinely get a greater number of people to stage ad hoc counter demos whenever the NF were in town. The level of their unpleasantness in no way diminishes the paucity of their numbers.
When they start blowing up the tubes, burning churches and kidnapping people to cut their heads off, their numbers are quite sufficient. It doesn't take the whole hive to sting you to death.
No they aren't representing her. Unless she voted for them to represent her, they are self appointed spokesmen for their own interpretation of one of the world's major religions. It is not up to her to stop them, anymore than it is up to you, personally, to stop the KKK.
They say they are representing her, and all she has said it they had just cause.... dripping with schadenfreude.
Vote? Vote on what? She doesn't get to vote on shit when it comes to Islam, nor do I think she'd want to... too thoroughly brainwashed.
We took care of the KKK, they don't cut peoples heads off anymore. Of course it would have been more difficult if they had been running the country. It's about time the muslims cleaned their house.
The extremists don't represent me as much as Ann Coulter wouldn't represent you. You have to see that the reason most of these Islamic countries in the middle east hate America is not because America is Christian, it's because America keeps fucking with them. Iraq for example, no WMD's but supposedly, GW wanted to liberate the nation of tyrannical ruler. Why not liberate Darfur where MILLIONS are being slaughtered or North Korea, who not only has a tyrannical ruler but also definitely has WMD's, for a fact! Because they're not sitting on a giant oil reserves, that’s why. Remember "bad guys" seldom think they are.
More than half of the people in the US thought and asked these very same questions. Proabably 80 percent of the country now knows it was the wrong thing to do. They trusted a someone in power to know what they were doing.
It's a mess. Nobody is denying it but the people in Iraq need to help and stop their own power plays. It's not right that the people causing the sectarian violence shoot at one another and point to the US and say, "see what you made me do" It's as if the people want to play the victim card to their favor both ways. It's one thing to blame the US and it's another to blame her while pillaging instead of helping.
It's about time the muslims cleaned their house.
Blood on the walls... blood on the walls.
The extremists don't represent me as much as Ann Coulter wouldn't represent you. You have to see that the reason most of these Islamic countries in the middle east hate America is not because America is Christian, it's because America keeps fucking with them.
So you don't believe
Hassan Butt? How naive.
Iraq for example, no WMD's but supposedly, GW wanted to liberate the nation of tyrannical ruler. Why not liberate Darfur where MILLIONS are being slaughtered or North Korea, who not only has a tyrannical ruler but also definitely has WMD's, for a fact! Because they're not sitting on a giant oil reserves, that’s why. Remember "bad guys" seldom think they are.
I'm not going to defend Bush and his stupid war. But I'll remind you that his fuck-up started after a couple of buildings in NY fell down.
Also a couple other ones that directly concerned us.
Oct. 12, 2000 - A terrorist bomb damages the destroyer USS Cole in the port of Aden, Yemen, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39.
Aug. 7, 1998 - Terrorist bombs destroy the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. In Nairobi, 12 Americans are among the 291 killed, and over 5,000 are wounded, including 6 Americans. In Dar es Salaam, one U.S. citizen is wounded among the 10 killed and 77 injured.
June 21, 1998 - Rocket-propelled grenades explode near the U.S. embassy in Beirut.
July 27, 1996 - A pipe bomb explodes during the Olympic games in Atlanta, killing one person and wounding 111.
June 25, 1996 - A bomb aboard a fuel truck explodes outside a U.S. air force installation in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. 19 U.S. military personnel are killed in the Khubar Towers housing facility, and 515 are wounded, including 240 Americans.
Nov. 13, 1995 - A car-bomb in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kills seven people, five of them American military and civilian advisers for National Guard training. The "Tigers of the Gulf," "Islamist Movement for Change," and "Fighting Advocates of God" claim responsibility.
April 19, 1995 - A car bomb destroys the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people and wounding over 600.
February 1993 - A bomb in a van explodes in the underground parking garage in New York's World Trade Center, killing six people and wounding 1,042.
Dec. 21, 1988 - A bomb destroys Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. All 259 people aboard the Boeing 747 are killed including 189 Americans, as are 11 people on the ground.
April 1986 - An explosion damages a TWA flight as it prepares to land in Athens, Greece. Four people are killed when they are sucked out of the aircraft.
April 5, 1986 - A bomb destroys the LaBelle discotheque in West Berlin. The disco was known to be frequented by U.S. servicemen. The attack kills one American and one German woman and wounds 150, including 44 Americans
December 1985 - Simultaneous suicide attacks are carried out against U.S. and Israeli check-in desks at Rome and Vienna international airports. 20 people are killed in the two attacks, including four terrorists.
November 1985 - Hijackers aboard an Egyptair flight kill one American. Egyptian commandos later storm the aircraft on the isle of Malta, and 60 people are killed.
October 1985 - Palestinian terrorists hijack the cruise liner Achille Lauro (in response to the Israeli attack on PLO headquarters in Tunisia) Leon Klinghoffer, an elderly, wheelchair-bound American, is killed and thrown overboard.
August 1985 - A car bomb at a U.S. military base in Frankfurt, Germany kills two and injures 20. A U.S. soldier murdered for his identity papers is found a day after the explosion.
June 1985 - A TWA airliner is hijacked over the Mediterranean, the start of a two-week hostage ordeal. The last 39 passengers are eventually released in Damascus after being held in various locations in Beirut.
June 1985 - In San Salvador, El Salvador, 13 people are killed in a machine gun attack at an outdoor café, including four U.S. Marines and two American businessmen.
April 1985 - A bomb explodes in a restaurant near a U.S. air base in Madrid, Spain, killing 18, all Spaniards, and wounding 82, including 15 Americans.
November 1984 - A bomb attack on the U.S. embassy in Bogota, Colombia kills a passer-by. The attack was preceded by death threats against U.S. officials by drug traffickers.
October 1983 - A suicide car bomb attack against the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut kills 241 servicemen. A simultaneous attack on a French base kills 58 paratroopers.
April 1983 - A suicide car bombing against the U.S. embassy in Beirut kills 63, including 17 Americans.
But the fact that these were all perpetrated by muslims extremists is probably only a coincidence. Yes, I said extremists, but save your, "handful that don't represent the mainstream", comments. It's their problem as much as it is ours and I don't see them doing anything about it.
So you can stand around, hanging your collective heads, dragging your toe in the dirt, making Jesus jokes, but I'm not. I'm telling this kid, her righteous indignation is bullshit, and she better get off her mainstream ass and do something about it, beside pointing a finger at us.
So you don't believe Hassan Butt? How naive.
Why would I believe him? Basically he's saying he did what he did for Islam not politics. If he said he was doing it for politics I doubt he would have had the same support. Just like with Bush, he has to hide the real agenda to make the sell.
I'm not going to defend Bush and his stupid war. But I'll remind you that his fuck-up started after a couple of buildings in NY fell down.
Also a couple other ones that directly concerned us.
But the fact that these were all perpetrated by muslims extremists is probably only a coincidence. Yes, I said extremists, but save your, "handful that don't represent the mainstream", comments. It's their problem as much as it is ours and I don't see them doing anything about it.
I can't argue with this, it was great how after 9/11 we went to Iraq, found Osama, broke up al queda, and delivered justice. :rolleyes:
So you can stand around, hanging your collective heads, dragging your toe in the dirt, making Jesus jokes, but I'm not. I'm telling this kid, her righteous indignation is bullshit, and she better get off her mainstream ass and do something about it, beside pointing a finger at us.
I saw an interview once where a reporter was asking a young Palestinian boy at a protest why he hates America. His answer was because every Isreali rocket fired into his neighborhood says "Made in America" on it. He may not be a terrorist but surely you can't expect him to show us the compassion we won't show him.
Why would I believe him? Basically he's saying he did what he did for Islam not politics. If he said he was doing it for politics I doubt he would have had the same support. Just like with Bush, he has to hide the real agenda to make the sell.
What's his motive? He's out of the game now so why would he lie about his agenda when he was in it?
I can't argue with this, it was great how after 9/11 we went to Iraq, found Osama, broke up aL queda, and delivered justice. :rolleyes:
I'm not going to defend Bush and his stupid war.
I saw an interview once where a reporter was asking a young Palestinian boy at a protest why he hates America. His answer was because every Isreali rocket fired into his neighborhood says "Made in America" on it. He may not be a terrorist but surely you can't expect him to show us the compassion we won't show him.
Then I suggest they teach their kids to read instead of brainwashing them. His answer shows he's been taught the same hate the west bullshit as his forebearers. Remember the US didn't create the state of Israel, the Pals have been fighting the last 47 years. But we spent much of that time trying to broker a peace deal, the Pals want no part of.
The extremists don't represent me as much as Ann Coulter wouldn't represent you. You have to see that the reason most of these Islamic countries in the middle east hate America is not because America is Christian, it's because America keeps fucking with them.
They don't
represent you, but you
understand.
Mr. Smith beat his wife last night, put her in the hospital.
But you have to admit, she did burn the pot roast.
You have to see that the reason most of these Islamic countries, in and out of the middle east, hate America is not because America is Christian; it's because when you fail, it's much easier psychologically to blame the "other", than to address your own faults.
This basic psychological impasse is seen over and over again, first in people, then in human societies. You hope it remains a minority movement (US's KKK, Britain's BNP/NF) instead of becoming the predominant political power.
Iraq for example, no WMD's but supposedly, GW wanted to liberate the nation of tyrannical ruler. Why not liberate Darfur where MILLIONS are being slaughtered or North Korea, who not only has a tyrannical ruler but also definitely has WMD's, for a fact! Because they're not sitting on a giant oil reserves, that’s why.
If Kim Jung Il had oil deposits to make money, instead of just drug-running and counterfeiting as he does now, somebody would have to take out the little S.O.B. Not because the hit man wants the oil, but because he'd be a much bigger global problem than he currently is.
So you don't believe [URL="http://www.cellar.org/showpost.php?p=362065&postcount=10"] But I'll remind you that his fuck-up started after a couple of buildings in NY fell down.
Also a couple other ones that directly concerned us.
Is it a coincidence???
the number of letters in Newyork city.... 11 letter count it
Afghanistan ..... 11
the Terrorist who menaced to destroy the two towers hi name was Ramsen Yuseb........... 11 letters
the american president George W Bush... 11 ^o)
Newyork City contains 11 cities
the fist fligh that crushed the bulding contains 92 passenger,, 9+2=11
and the second fligh 65 passenger, 6+5=11
and this accident happend in 9/11,, let's count it 9+1+1=11
the victims on the plane were 254,, 2+5+4=11
till now i think that you belive that all of that was coincidence, me too toll now i belive they were coincidences.
IF YOU FELT BORED JUST START FROM HERE,IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP
this step surprised me let's do it which eachother
the steps: 1- open the microsoft word
2-write using caps lock Q33 NY ,ofcoursethis was the
number of the fligh that crushed the trading tower.
3-after writing it select it and choose the font (WINGDINGS)
YOU'LL BE SHOCKED, Just try it ;)
Is it a coincidence???
Yes.
TRY THE LAST STEPS with microsoft word and tell me what do you see???:)
IF YOU FELT BORED JUST START FROM HERE,IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP
this step surprised me let's do it which eachother
the steps: 1- open the microsoft word
2-write using caps lock Q33 NY ,ofcoursethis was the
number of the fligh that crushed the trading tower.
3-after writing it select it and choose the font (WINGDINGS)
YOU'LL BE SHOCKED, Just try it ;)
Is it a coincidence???
Yes.
did you try the last steps :)?
if you did what do you see?
We all see the same thing. It is still a coincidence.
You all see it, then i think you were in the plane too to know that they are muslims :)
i believe too that the numbers are coincidence but the last thing i don't think so;)
That's the same crap as the similarities between Lincoln and Kennedy that's been around for years:
Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846
Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946
He was elected President in 1860
He was elected President in 1960
His wife lost a child while living in the White House
His wife lost a child while living in the White House
He was directly concerned with Civil Rights
He was directly concerned with Civil Rights
Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy who told him not to go to the theater *1
Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln who told him not to go to Dallas **2
Lincoln was shot in the back of the head in the presence of his wife
Kennedy was shot in the back of the head in the presence of his wife
Lincoln shot in the Ford Theatre
Kennedy shot in a Lincoln, made by Ford
He was shot on a Friday
He was shot on a Friday
The assassin, John Wilkes Booth, was known by three names, comprised of fifteen letters
The assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, was known by three names, comprised of fifteen letters
Booth shot Lincoln in a theater and fled to a warehouse
Oswald shot Kennedy from a warehouse and fled to a theater
Booth was killed before being brought to trial
Oswald was killed before being brought to trial
There were theories that Booth was part of a greater conspiracy
There were theories that Oswald was part of a greater conspiracy
Lincoln's successor was Andrew Johnson, born in 1808
Kennedy's successor was Lyndon Johnson, born in 1908
*1 Note: It is an urban myth that Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy. There is no record of that.
**2 Note: There is no record whether or not Kennedy's secretary warned him.:right:
And if you fold a dollar bill the right way you see a mushroom, or a mushroom cloud, or a penis or something. :headshake
And by the way. The Q33 thing is a hoax. Try snopes before you spout stupid shit.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/wingdings.asp
Or
Hoax slayer, which provides, in part, this:
Some have claimed that "Q33 NY" was actually the tail or registration number of one of the planes. However, this is also untrue. The actual tail number of Flight 11 was "N334AA". Nor did any of the other hijacked aircraft have the registration number "Q33 NY" (see Data Table below). Searches of the Federal Aviation Administration website afforded no results for "Q33 NY". In fact, most civil aircraft registrations in the United States start with the letter "N" and nationality and registration markings are commonly referred to as "N-Numbers".hhhhh now i believe it isn't a coincidence, you know why ;)? let me ask you this website belongs to who ? ;)
What a maroon. Did you bother to READ the websiteS?
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) :headshake
they must erase the Convictions, YOU know why?they are afraid & don't tell me from who because we all know;);););)
by the way too the publisher of this website is western &who'll defend :), can you do me a favour, what's the nationality of the publisher
Irrelevant. "Q33NY" isn't a flight number or a tail number, no matter what nationality anybody is.
Just search for it you will find that it is :)
aha by the way my aunt is an air hostess
Perhaps you should try the search before posting.
Why am I even engaging you????
no & if i won't accept you anyway what i mean that i know more than you in those subjects, so don't tell me to search because i already know, you try to search :)
Just search for it you will find that it is
Nope.hhhhhh i swear even in western website & it was i think it isn't difficult to search, isn't it funny to say nope, we must be Aboveboard with eachothers if we want to progress, we are just Discussing something to clear it up. ;)
Muslima: probably a bit late, but welcome to the Cellar.
Out of interest has anybody given Muslima the quiz?
hhhhhh i swear even in western website & it was i think
Either you read the website incorrectly, or the website was incorrect.
Oh come on, is nobody taking care of the innocent young newbies anymore?
happy monkey, it's your problem that you don't want to believe anything, i think that you don't believe your self too.
i wanna give you an advice change your nickname to (NO) it will help people to understand you!:P
happy monkey, it's your problem that you don't want to believe anything, i think that you don't believe your self too.
i wanna give you an advice change your nickname to (NO) it will help people to understand you!:P
Oh, bless.
It is like a car wreck. I don't want to look, I just can't stop myself.
*chuckles* you know you want to.
That's great, you know something it'll be more fun if everyone heard to the other's view without cursing. because there is someone who cursed me :'( i want to say to him that it's you & who you are from the inside. i swear i don't mean you happy monkey :D someone else
happy monkey, it's your problem that you don't want to believe anything,
Believe what, that a Microsoft font designer was involved in 9-11?
if he was involved he wouldn't notice us..
he isn't involved because he showed us the truth
Are we still talking about the microsoft dude?
he isn't involved because he showed us the truth
So, the Microsoft font guy/gal is now a prophet? But, he/she works for Bill Gates, and isn't Bill Gates the antichrist?
am sorry am not perfect in english, what do you mean by bill gates, i understand it but in other way.
your fingers aren't same.
he isn't involved because he showed us the truth
Check out MUSLIM in Wingdings...
aha because there are only one person who works in Microsot hhhhhh, right!!
MR.(NO) what's your problem why do you hate muslims?
try it without caps lock
Why?
MR.(NO) what's your problem why do you hate muslims?
I guess you're referring to me. What makes you think I hate Muslims?
yes why? who washed your brain??
oh come on all your replies show that !!
every single thing i say you must disagree me without searching & knowing what i mean
Muslima: probably a bit late, but welcome to the Cellar.
Out of interest has anybody given Muslima the quiz?
Are you giving the quiz?
every single thing i say you must disagree me without searching & knowing what i mean
I did search:
Nope.
The search revealed that you were incorrect.
Disagreeing is not hate. I hate nobody.
for example, what's make you sure that muslims crushed the tower,
what's our advantage from killing innocence people.
why don't you say that other sources did it for they advantage?
The evidence you provided for "other sources" was silly.
Happy Monkey determines the truth by looking at facts and evidence. He doesn't just accept one person's word. He has read and watched enough to know what is true and what is false, by seeing who says what, why they can be believed, and which facts can and cannot be challenged.
He is smart! He didn't have to search for your answers. He has seen similar puzzles and riddles in the past, and he knows they are only a trick, not a way to find the truth.
still you didn't answer my question. you was a passanger on the same plane?!! does any record revealed which says that we did that ?!
Happy Monkey is so smart, Muslima, that he does not blame all Muslims simply because 19 Muslims decided to crash those planes.
He only blames those 19 Muslims, and the men who helped them to plan.
He believes that everyone is responsible for their own choices. He would never blame you. What those men did, does not make YOU a worse person.
in fact, i asked too many questions before and who disagreed me didn't answer? i'll repeat a question that i didn't find it's answer here
do thugs & criminals represent thier religion, what about your country isn't it too full of them, we all know that, but we don't judge you through them, so why you judge us through them!!
Muslima - why do you keep changing your user title? Are you sending secret messages?
[COLOR=White]You could just use LJs invisible ink technique.[/COLOR]
what user title?? i use invisble mode
We do not have to see a person's action, to know what they have done. There are other ways to know truth for certain. You can compare the words of people who did see, for example.
In our country, information moves differently than it does in Kuwait. With all due respect, my friend, I am not saying one is better than the other. But I know that, with the sort of eye for truth that Happy Monkey has, he can look at many different facts from many different places, and determine what is true.
HLJ, the user title changes automatically here, usually by number of posts; unless you choose one of your own.
is it yours?? if it is yours i won't reply again !!
please don't change the subject to escape from answering
what user title?? i use invisble mode
Muslima -- under your name is your user title. Right now, mine says "HappyLikeJoe."
You can ask LumberJim to assign you a title
here, if you want, or you can pick your own at the User CP (upper left part of the screen).
it's done. no one wanna answer that means that am right, we here call silence agreement, sothanks :)
thank you HLJ , am sorry for my prieviews reply i got you wrong, :)
Muslima, I can't speak for all people, I can speak only for myself. I don't judge all Muslims through the actions of a small number.
i don't mean you i mean people who hate muslims without reasons, i know that you are opened minded
open minded:D it's the first website to reply in :D
thank you HLJ , am sorry for my prieviews reply i got you wrong, :)
That's all right, Muslima, you never know when I'm being serious.
You should take a look around the Cellar; there are lots more interesting threads than this one.
do thugs & criminals represent thier religion, what about your country isn't it too full of them, we all know that, but we don't judge you through them, so why you judge us through them!!
Some people do, and they shouldn't. And some Muslims do judge the US based on the actions of our thugs and criminals, and they shouldn't.
However, you can't pretend that the thugs and criminals don't exist. Representatives of the USA have acted thuggishly and criminally, and so have representatives of Islam. It doesn't mean that Americans or Muslims in general are evil, just that they are humans. It is important for Americans and Muslims to rein in their thuggish criminal activities, and that is not possible if you refuse to admit that they exist, or claim that the ones on one side don't count because of the ones on the other side.
i know that they exist, but we don't consider them muslims. you know , we've in our religion if one muslim killed a person we don't consider him muslim because souls for ALLAH not for us.
How convenient... if a muslim kills someone, they are automatically not a muslim anymore, therefore there are no muslim murderers.
that what allah said, they only holding the religion by name that what i've said before, please check it in the previews pages :), i think too that christianity contains the same meaning, i think no one is free to snatch thoes people & change thier religion, i won't catch one by one to ask them did you kill before, but what we do is punishing them
and here where i stay thoes extremists was killed.
i know that they exist, but we don't consider them muslims. you know , we've in our religion if one muslim killed a person we don't consider him muslim because souls for ALLAH not for us.
Unfortunately, there are Imams who disagree, and someone who is shunned by your religious leaders can join a different group.
And even if all Muslim leaders joined together to denounce violence, there would still be violent Muslims, because Muslims are human. Pretending that they aren't Muslim is essentially the same as pretending they don't exist, because you can just claim that they don't count.
aha and muslims enter other's country without permission & saying i'll take this land & if u didn't give it to me i'll killyou, right!! hhh so funny
Unfortunately, there are Imams who disagree, and someone who is shunned by your religious leaders can join a different group.
And even if all Muslim leaders joined together to denounce violence, there would still be violent Muslims, because Muslims are human. Pretending that they aren't Muslim is essentially the same as pretending they don't exist, because you can just claim that they don't count.
are you muslim to know that they are our leaders who told you ha,
what's the name of them & i'll translate everything was said about them just to know that we don't agree them?
aha and muslims enter other's country without permission & saying i'll take this land & if u didn't give it to me i'll killyou, right!! hhh so funny
People of pretty much all races, cultures, and religions have done that.
imams ,leaders, muslims against jihad didn't that what your news channels say?? when you clean your religion from criminals we will too, but first tell me how to clean it
i'll translate everything was said about them just to know that we don't agree them?
I don't think you agree with them. That's the point. There are thousands and thousands of
Islamic leaders, with many different interpretations of Islam, and there's nobody to decide which ones are "real".
imams ,leaders, muslims against jihad didn't that what your news channels say?? when you clean your religion from criminals we will too, but first tell me how to clean it
I have no religion. I also cannot tell you how to clean yours, but I can tell you that you can't do it by pretending that they don't count or by waiting for someone else to do it first.
we muslims know who's real & who's fake, but people in any religion that don't know thier religion very well simply anything would be said they will obey it. that don't mean to ignore the whole religion because of them
we muslims know who's real & who's fake,
But some of those who you think are fake think that they are real and you are fake.
you know something i feel bored from this page,, i'll end my peom it's better than here bye happy monkey.
Muslima, the 9/11 conspiracy has no proof and every single theory on how it worked can and has been debunked. I have seen just about every theory out there and each of them has been disproven.
Also, just because someone goes against their religion does not make other people's perspectives change on the matter. Some of the people that have been performing terrorist attacks have been using Islam as an excuse and even though you obviously don't condemn their actions, you can not create a barrier between you two. Though, most people should be able to figure out that what they are doing is not what Islam preaches just as most people realize that the Christians that bomb abortion clinics or protest soldier's funerals are not doing what Christianity preaches.
I am very open minded. I think we should keep an open mind as we hunt down and kill Muslim extremists around the world. And the beat goes on...
Four pages of this BS? Dear oh dear; somebody seems not to have enough to do.
Thank you Happy Monkey. I loved your logic. Well I guess you shined by default. Oh well.:)
i swear i don't mean you happy monkey :D someone else
Oooh, you're so cryptic, and...mysterious. How can I NOT believe that you know what you're talking about re Q33?
Fuck you. You can kiss this kids ass, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to her bitch about how I'm letting extremists sully her reputation. They're not representing me, they're representing her, so it's on her to stop them if she feels they are not an accurate representation.
Shawnee123 ,, this what I mean.
xoxoxoBruce,, this will surprise you it was forbidden,
you won't understnad anything because me too didn't understand anything,, when i saw this poem i didn't care,, read it first it contain a hugemeaning,, Read & I'll put it's meaning,, It's just for you,, i know thati'll be murdered,,
WHY IT WAS FORBIDDEN???
Is that this cat,
This probably is cat,
Call her the cat,
it's her way cat,
may happen to you,
let you let you,
I want a spoon,
this is stupid idea,
ask this person cat,
you said busy why,
help her for you,
still want forty cat,
hey wait seconds you,
xoxoxoBruce,, Read the third word from each line,
aha by the way,, you aren't محترم , when you apologize maybe i can forgive you & tell you it's meaning, & if you didn't i'll tell all the members it's meaning except you,,
That's a gem of a quote.
<GROUP A> 're not representing <MEMBER OF GROUP B>, <GROUP A> 're representing <GROUP C>, so it's on <MEMBER OF GROUP C> to stop <MEMBER OF GROUP A> if <MEMBER OF GROUP C> feels <GROUP A> are not an accurate representation.
flint i mean this i don't mean the quote,, i mustn't delete it, so you understand what i mean because you know what am talking about.
Here you are,,,
Fuck you. You can kiss this kids ass, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to her bitch about how I'm letting extremists sully her reputation.
if you didn't i'll tell all the members it's meaning except you,,
OMG, you WOULDN'T. The HORRORS. :eek:
Bruce, hang in there. I know you're disappointed. ;)
[COLOR="Gray"]Pssst, by the way. What's she talking about?[/COLOR]
xoxoxoBruce,, Read the third word from each line,
Why the games. It dosn't prove anything but a humans ability to distort the truth. It is not proof of the truth to be able to find hidden meanings.
In fact it is EVIL! Bwahaha
[FONT=Book Antiqua][/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua][/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua]Proof=[/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua][/FONT]
[CENTER][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#ff0000]If any man shall say to you, "Lo, here is Christ," or, "There!," believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. (Matt. 24:23-25)[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#ff0000]Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, "Master, we would see a sign from thee." But He answered and said unto them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign. But there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah." (Matt. 12:38-39)[/COLOR][/FONT][/CENTER]
[FONT=Verdana]In both of these passages, signs and wonders are NOT cast in a good light. Did you notice that? In Matthew 24, Jesus says false prophets will show GREAT signs and wonders in order to deceive. Thus, in that passage, signs and wonders are used as tools for deception. In Matthew 12, Jesus warns against
seeking after signs and wonders. Indeed, He says that if you do seek after them, you are committing spiritual adultery.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]
[/FONT]
[COLOR=seagreen]No worrys though mus...not even the christians know of that scripture. [/COLOR]
disappointed from what :cool:
skysidhe,,, i think you are too late, did you read the third words???
when he comes tell me to hide my self quickly :D
yes and it dosn't make sense except that it shows you think you have some ability to see things others do not. It is in fact a game play or a religious delusion which was the reason for my post.
just out of curiosity is muslima's real name
pete & repete?
oh come on you know that i don't mean that, he cursed me,, & this is only the way to let him apologize,, by the way it's good trick to know the meaning??
just out of curiosity is muslima's real name
pete & repete?
no it isn't my name is Summer
I'm not sure if she's a troll or really stupid/naive.... maybe both, considering all the stupid shit she's posted.
It's obvious she thinks she's very clever, getting some people here, to jump through hoops and bend over backwards to kiss her ass.
Probably no clue how really fucking stupid she sounds from her posts. Definitely a minor league bitch.
Might be a language barrier. She may be finding it difficult to get her humour to translate.
She's only laughing at how much more clever she is and finds humor in making you give serious answers to nonsense.
Maybe. Whatever, she's not exactly fun to interact with:P
That's a gem of a quote.<GROUP A> 're not representing <MEMBER OF GROUP B>, <GROUP A> 're representing <GROUP C>, so it's on <MEMBER OF GROUP C> to stop <MEMBER OF GROUP A> if <MEMBER OF GROUP C> feels <GROUP A> are not an accurate representation.
I'm not surprised
you don't understand. What you call A, says they are, and represent, C. Even if you want to call them A, they aren't, they're C. They may not
rightfully represent C, but they still are anyway.
Maybe. Whatever, she's not exactly fun to interact with:P
You gave it your best shot, she's not interested.
xoxoxoBruce ,, you are سوسة & you need كف على وشك,,
Apologize or i'll make you a joke in eastern webs & here too because i'll translate what i said to everyone,, am not a kid to curse me.,,
Go fuck yourself. Translate that, troll.
DanaC,, give me my quiz first instead of criticizing :P
don't pretend you don't wanna know,, no no no don't pretend سوسة
xoxoxoBruce did you like my user title سوسة
DanaC,, give me my quiz first instead of criticizing :P
Nah, takes a Pillar of the Cellar community to do the quiz. Lj, Bruce, or Undertoad.
what's with the fucking ragheads? what? oh i'm sorry, that term is offensive? my apologies. is it ok to refer to them as walking explosives?
WTF Muslima?
Are you an apologist for the extremists?
If not, what is your issue?
No one in here has said that they dislike all Muslims, at least not that I have read.
No one said that all Muslims are terrorists, have they?
If not, WTF is your deal?
Someone sprinkle some fiberglass in your undie drawer?
what the hell do you expect from someone that chooses that as their screen name? it would be unusual if they showed up to look at pictures of labrat's ass. although i guess the 9/11 asshats did spend the night before in a strip club, so...
and you are absolutely right. not all muslims are terrorists. not all arabs are terrorists. just the ones the blow themselves and other people up. and the ones that make excuses for why their dipshit friends strap bombs to themselves.
if they showed up to look at pictures of labrat's ass.
There's another primary reason?
Let's not get ridiculous!
Apparentely Lookout123 just did...
I think Muslima is just tired of getting the stereotype of Muslims = terrorists, whether it was plain site like Lookout123's post or something she takes wrong (majority), and finds it very hard to accept the fact that some extremists do use Islam as an excuse for their agenda. Dillusion is another reason I suspect.
there haven't been any new postings here so i've been spending my time scouring other bb's looking for labrat's fine little heiney. if you want me to spend more time in the cellar, ya gots ta show the goods.
put it away bruce, i wasn't talking to you.:headshake
You can't handle my heiney.
oh!
lol cute..... I was wondering why he just reposted that picture.
:lol:
Very clever. You people constantly amaze me!
They're not representing me, they're representing her, so it's on her to stop them if she feels they are not an accurate representation.
<GROUP A> 're not representing <MEMBER OF GROUP B>, <GROUP A> 're representing <GROUP C>, so it's on <MEMBER OF GROUP C> to stop <MEMBER OF GROUP A> if <MEMBER OF GROUP C> feels <GROUP A> are not an accurate representation.
I'm not surprised you don't understand. What you call A, says they are, and represent, C. Even if you want to call them A, they aren't, they're C. They may not rightfully represent C, but they still are anyway.
I haven't called anybody anything, you have. I simply quoted your own statement, using generic group titles.
And, you've confirmed my interpretation of your meaning. Thanks for the clarification on that point.
Bruce trying to beat Flint with his own logic is like using the blunt end of the knife to the head instead of just using the sharp point and getting right to the heart.
Flint says, "Thanks for the clarification on that point."
Easy for you to say..it hurts my head!
Apparentely Lookout123 just did...
I think Muslima is just tired of getting the stereotype of Muslims.
You are right,
You mean muslims that go around threatening people, like yourself?
Bruce trying to beat Flint with his own logic is like using the blunt end of the knife to the head instead of just using the sharp point and getting right to the heart.
Flint says, "Thanks for the clarification on that point."
Easy for you to say..it hurts my head!
I have to because Flint never has the balls to come right out and say what he means. It's always some veiled bullshit or stupid cartoons because he's not man enough to take a position on anything, just a shit stirring troll.
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYUM FLINT!
I have to because Flint never has the balls to come right out and say what he means. It's always some veiled bullshit or stupid cartoons because he's not man enough to take a position on anything, just a shit stirring troll.
I know.
How come everybody's picking on our man Flint?
i like flint, i just really wanted to use that pic.
How come everybody's picking on our man Flint?
'Our man' flint?
Why give him a sweeping learning curve?
I've never seen flint stand up for anyone. You want to like him. He wants you to like him. He'll create a circus for you to play in but that's about it. I don't know if anything else is real. I think once when he was somebody else he was real.
Apparentely Lookout123 just did...
I think Muslima is just tired of getting the stereotype of Muslims = terrorists, whether it was plain site like Lookout123's post or something she takes wrong (majority), and finds it very hard to accept the fact that some extremists do use Islam as an excuse for their agenda. Dillusion is another reason I suspect.
i make no bones about it. i've got very little respect for those that run with islam. i spent my time in the middle east a long time ago. fuck 'em. i couldn't care less about hurting their feelings or being PC.
Exactly.
Those doing the things the rest are upset about are hiding in the neighborhoods with all the others.
If they wanted it stopped all they have to do is narc them out, they don't, so they support it.
It IS that simple.
Cowardice is never an excuse, I don't wanna' hear it. It will just make me lose respect for them more.
...circus...
Yes, this is a circus of ideas. We're all trying to connect each other's dots... do you ever get the idea that the process of how those dots get connected is the interesting part? Much like an inkblot test... is the glass half empty or half full? It's all in the eye of the beholder; even the drinking horse will see its own reflection. [/veiled, shit-stirring bullshit] And yet somehow I can still live with myself.
You're the only one posting dots. Everybody else says what they mean.
Even poor delusional muslima has the guts to post her convictions, instead of some bullshit that can be wormed out of later.
Granny did you a great disservice.
[COLOR=darkolivegreen]Originally Posted by unmanly, no-balled troll [/COLOR]
[COLOR=darkolivegreen]Yes, this is a circus of ideas. We're all trying to connect each other's dots... do you ever get the idea that the process of how those dots get connected is the interesting part? Much like an inkblot test... is the glass half empty or half full? It's all in the eye of the beholder; even the drinking horse will see its own reflection. [/veiled, shit-stirring bullshit] And yet somehow I can still live with myself.[/COLOR]
People are more than ideas and more than the process.
Address people directly. You don't HAVE to be amusing.
Did you do the inkblot test? Did you comment on the results good or bad?
Don't make me start writing poetry to you to try to get through.:mad2:
( j/k private joke I hope you get)
It is not uncommon for "moderate" muslims (or even christians for that matter) to provide cover for the fundamentalist extremists in it. This case is exceptionally blatant with all the games. All it does is keep people from real debate and allow things to continue, same as ever.
If Islam is truly a religion of tolerance why is it so hellbent on forcing others to conform to their customs? It is a form of fascism; they want to restrict what you can say about their religion while being free to insult yours. This special status is the first part of
Dhimmitude (which led to the extermination of over 300,000 Armenians alone).
That is the REAL question about all religon, why are they so worried about what others are doing?
Human nature is endlessly fascinating to me. What could possibly compel an anonymous stranger to insult my dead grandmother?
It's easier to judge people on the internet, because you can see them as a one-dimensional mockery of an actual human, and that feels good. It feels good to know so much about somebody, to be so astute, like Sherlock Holmes, to be such an expert on the human condition. All it takes is a few keystrokes, and the soul spills forth onto the page. The dark, hidden truths cannot escape the righteous searchlight of this perfect, digital mechanism.
Everything that everyone ever says is just a series of symbolic dots understood to have some connection, which is understood to have some meaning; in this case facilitated exclusively by smallish bits of text, floating in a participative gray area where people's minds attempt to connect, with pitifully little information to go on. Unwittingly projective stabs at mind-reading is what often results in an atmosphere so devoid of meaningful context.
Cute kitty, but -- "served?":confused:
Radio host Larry Elder remarked today that he saw "three ways to submit to Islam: you convert, or pay protection money to a bunch of thugs in order to remain a second-class citizen, or you die." You got the impression he was keener on some better choice.
A recent Thomas Friedman column noted that Muslim are taught the primacy and perfection of their revealed faith over all others -- it could be called God 3.0, with Judaism and Christianity being God 1.0 and 2.0. However, something that's likely to upset the passionately devout Muslim is that the societies running God 1.0 and 2.0 all seem to be doing a lot better, and better for a very long time, than the societies running God 3.0 -- more wealth, more success, more intellectual dynamism, more economic dynamism, more global dominance -- now, he asks, if we've got the best version in God 3.0, how come we haven't got all that?
Something that wasn't relevant to Friedman's column was the idea that the Mormons might claim God 4.1 -- God 4.0 being the polygamous edition... imagine how that would stir the pot.
Remarks?
Cute kitty, but -- "served?":confused:
Just act like you understand. We have to stick with the theory that I'm the only one posting dots. Since everyone else always says exactly what they mean, it won't work if you don't always understand exactly what they're saying. The possibility that we're all saying what we mean, and only some of us understand each other, and only some of the time, would ruin everything. Must. Stay. Negative. . . . . . . . Try name-calling.
Fred?
Aloysius?
Dmitri?
Agamemnon?...
[COLOR=darkolivegreen]Originally Posted by Flint *Disclaimer: May Contain Sarcasm [/COLOR]
[COLOR=darkolivegreen]It's easier to judge people on the internet, because you can see them as a one-dimensional mockery of an actual human, and that feels good. It feels good to know so much about somebody, to be so astute, like Sherlock Holmes, to be such an expert on the human condition. All it takes is a few keystrokes, and the soul spills forth onto the page. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Gawd, I am trying to feel sorry for you. Then I keep asking myself if there's such a thing as karma because when a person sees it...really sees it....a person's just dumbstruck.:eek6:[/COLOR]
Look, I'm only a dork. I just know if I can find toleration so can you.
Cute kitty, but -- "served?"
The cat looks like it's hip hop dancing. In some social circles, it is considered a crushing insult to dance better than your opponent, and when this happens the opponent has been "served." See the horrific cinema masterpiece
You Got Served for further reference.
We now return you to your regularly-scheduled thread drift.
Ah. Well, I've been resolutely ignoring hip hop as something unmusical.
"Organized Religion is like Organized Crime; it preys on peoples' weakness, generates huge profits for its operators, and is almost impossible to eradicate."
--Mike Hermann (hermann@cs.ubc.ca)
(Coincidently, that was the quote at the bottom of the page when I opened this thread.)
UG -- but, if was unmusical, would people be able to dance to it?
The first classical composition which called for a cymbal and a bass drum to be struck simultaneously was said to be:
"not fit for monkeys to dance to"
Remarks?
I do believe that's the second time I've agreed with something you posted :p
:eyebrow:
What the hell? Now we gotta start beating on each other again?
Ah. Well, I've been resolutely ignoring hip hop as something unmusical.
exactly
So did Muslima finally blow him/herself up?
...Flint never has the balls to come right out and say what he means.
It's always some veiled bullshit or stupid cartoons...
Let the absence of my balls be reflected properly, by the absence of my head:
That's right, they're not.
Just childish crap in place of a substantial contribution.
May I ask a serious question?
Thank you
Muslims: I do not have a copy of the Koran handy. Please look up and post Chapter 9 Verse 11. Please.
I really want to see if this says what I heard it does.
11. Fa-in taboo waaqamoo alssalata waatawoo alzzakata fa-ikhwanukum fee alddeeni wanufassilu al-ayati liqawmin yaAAlamoona
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/transliteration/009.html[9.11] But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=282392
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.htmlMay I ask a serious question?
Thank you
Muslims: I do not have a copy of the Koran handy. Please look up and post Chapter 9 Verse 11. Please.
I really want to see if this says what I heard it does.
What did you think it said. There a number of good sites where you can reverse look up phrases, words, etc.
Here is one:
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/Snopes says no.
Oh, that... yep, urban myth aka BS.
But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate. And We make the message clear for the people who know.
Oh, that... yep, urban myth aka BS.
Yeah but it makes a great email to read, nod, mutter and forward. Isn't that more important than the truth to break up your day?
Yeah but it makes a great email to read, nod, mutter and forward. Isn't that more important than the truth to break up your day?
You have a point.
Yeah but it makes a great email to read, nod, mutter and forward. Isn't that more important than the truth to break up your day?
My truth is that I truly like to read the 9/11 Truth than the truth to break up the truth my day...
UG -- but, if was unmusical, would people be able to dance to it?
Well, in the late Seventies, they danced to disco. I'd been hearing of disco. Then I heard some disco -- I think the song's title was "Fly Robin Fly."
Oh dear. Or more exactly, "Bloody 'ell!" Idiotic. To this day, I'm antipathetic to unbroken, mechanical-sounding 4/4, 120 beats/minute.
From that day to this, I do not hang out with disco listeners, as I dislike to be surrounded by idiots. I prefer idiots aligned along a relatively small number of relative bearings -- the firing solution is simpler.
Funny.:thumb: ... and people think that what I say about religion is insulting?
Mmm... [thoughtful twist of lip under mustache] more like unfortunate, if I had to pack it into one adjective. As I remarked in the other thread, you seem to concentrate fixedly on kicking superstition around. The religious, OTOH, draw a clear distinction between their best practices and anything superstitious.
So did Muslima finally blow him/herself up?
please mind your own business, i think it'll be much better than talking about other people, & if you really hate me & don't wanna see my name in your screen, don't talk about me ,,, bye bye
I dunno, Muslima. Given the nature of an explosion, I'd say it immediately and necessarily becomes the business of everyone in the neighborhood, one way or another.
And I'm being nice; this last post of yours was really not a very smart one.
he is talking about me not about muslims! he is saying muslima not muslims,, & why i'll blow my self up
Urbane Guerrilla ,, you got me wrong,, what i meant by talking about other people is (ME)! not muslims let him talk about muslims cause it won't change anything ,, but i don't like others to talk about me,,
I believe we should respect her wishes by not talking about Muslima. Lets talk about something interesting, instead.
How about them Phillies. Wow 10,000 losses, now that's a record that'll be hard to beat.
I see the market is hovering just below 14,000.
Do you think the rain will hurt the rhubarb?
I believe we should respect her wishes by not talking about Muslima. Lets talk about something interesting, instead.
How about them Phillies. Wow 10,000 losses, now that's a record that'll be hard to beat.
I see the market is hovering just below 14,000.
Do you think the rain will hurt the rhubarb?
Yes Bruce, just the ticket.
Mrs McGillacuddy makes the loveliest Santa Clauses out of empty Clorox bottles.
Yesterday I saw a tree next to a road.
Boobs tits butts snots feet wig dog park.
All infinitely more interesting, intellectual, and exciting than She We Will Not Name.
Y'all aren't making a "
substantial contribution" to this thread.
Is this the part where it's appropriate to
insult your dead grandmother?
Flint, I am nothing if not unsubstantial. :rolleyes:
And you knows I luvs your 'toons! ;)
OK, it's bullshit. I figured but didn't get online to check Snopes. It's just that it came from a usually reliable source. I shall correct him forthwith.
Back to your regular discussion.
Brian
And you knows I luvs your 'toons! ;)
Doesn't matter. The correct opinion has been
provided for you.
You're not supposed to like them, and you're not supposed to like me.
Oh, and my
grandmother was misguided, a
bad influence.
Oh no you DI'INT. :rolleyes:
It's all good. You know that I know that you know that I know that you know I'm a friend. :3eye:
Hey Shawnee -- don't forget, Whiskey Breath and I are taking turns stalking you. Doesn't that count for something?
What just happened? Oh well... Don't blame me, blame my dead grandmother.
Hey Shawnee -- don't forget, Whiskey Breath and I are taking turns stalking you. Doesn't that count for something?
That means more than you know! But, you don't have to take turns. I can handle simultaneous stalking.
I only have one stalker (that I know of)
...but he just follows me around and calls me names, etc.
I guess that's more like a heckler. Is there a word that means internet heckler?
Heil Hickler!
...a heckler/dictator . . . that's pretty good.
Would it be just totally apropos for me to post a bomb here?
I love how his knees don't bend at all.
And the other dude is totally laughin' at him...
And the other dude is totally laughin' at him...
He's saying: You zuck at ze breakdance. Vee half vays uf making you flop.
Is it a coincidence???
A carefully constructed one, but yes.
And you knows I luvs your 'toons! ;)
I don't think it's the toons that are the problem.
Flint has been putting people down in cartoon format. He is actually heckling through cartoons instead of voicing a complaint in english.
It isn't funny. It's passive aggressive. If he would say what he wants to say without the cartoons his aggression would be more apparent.
see?
.
Flint as passive-aggressive: excellent insight by you sky, now that I look back on it, that's part of what he's been all along. F, your comment?
Yes, that is the joke: "stereotypical, passive-aggressive internet user randomly attacks the most visible members of a message board for no discernable reason whatsoever; a satire of internet culture." More or less completely ruined, of course, now that I've had to explain it.
Kills 'satire of internet culture' with a knife.
:::dies::: urgh... you got me
not you dummy or was that funny? lol
I'm tired. :::: leaves::::
I like Flintz, and I likes his cartoonz and senze of humourz.
Sometimes there is social commentary in his toonz. That makes it interesting, to me anyway.
But that's the beauty of the Cellar. We're all different and see things differently. One Dwellar's passive-aggressive is another Dwellar's in your face comedic talent.
:)
Flint has been putting people down in cartoon format. He is actually heckling through cartoons instead of voicing a complaint in english.
I think it's funny as hell.
One Dwellar's passive-aggressive is another Dwellar's in your face comedic talent.
:)
The point is he doesn't have to guts to be in your face, he's a bomb thrower.
I find that to be a matter of perspective.
At any rate, I have no beef with either of you. I like your down to earth approach, I like Flint's completely different approach.
The point is he doesn't have to guts to be in your face, he's a bomb thrower.
Guts? This isn't a rowdy honky-tonk where you get a beer bottle broken over your head for speaking out of line, this is the internet.
The worst thing that can happen here is a heated discussion over whether Kirk or Picard was the best captain of the Enterprise.
I'm a Picard guy, myself: contemplative and subtle. You want me to be a Kirk guy: rash and hot-tempered; but I'm not. Take note and move on.
The point is he doesn't have to guts to be in your face, he's a bomb thrower.
I always prefer ranged weapons to melee combat.[COLOR=Silver][SIZE=1] But that's in Diablo II.[/SIZE][/COLOR]
I'll kick both of your asses.
what? I won't?!
JINX, the kids left the gate open again.
I'm a Picard guy, myself: contemplative and subtle. You want me to be a Kirk guy: rash and hot-tempered; but I'm not. Take note and move on.
There's nothing contemplative or subtle about bomb throwing. It's not star trek fairy land, it's al Qaeda.
<munch munch munch on the popcorn>
<sip sip of the soda>
Humor is the only test of gravity, and gravity of humor;
for a subject which will not bear raillery is suspicious, and a jest which will not bear serious examination is false wit.
I think the cartoons are pretty dumb, but I still like Flints comments.
Of course, I do have no sense of humour though. Just ask...well. Don't ask!
;)
![Here's what's happening in that passage]("http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jabberwocky_Illustration.jpg"){kind=link}