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Old 06-07-2010, 11:58 AM   #16
glatt
 
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I think Helen maybe held on to her job a little too long. Hadn't she ever heard of "leave them wanting more?" She should have taken a page from Walter Cronkite. Everyone was sad when he left. But she's leaving in disgrace.

Now if we can only get rid of Andy Rooney.
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:00 PM   #17
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(knocks on forehead): NO ONE has posted since May 13th. You post something relevent. I comment. You post back "troll." You WERE talking to me.

Caught in another lie. You're pathetic as you try to dance around yourself, as if I care if you think I'm a troll. Yawn.
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:02 PM   #18
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Shaw - Go fuck yourself. You and I both agreed NOT to respond to each other. Care to try again?
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:04 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by TheDaVinciChode View Post
It was a VERY long time ago. Get the fuck over it. That's like people of a darker complexion, still thinking they're "owed" something, for slavery. Bollocks. It was a long time ago, we've all moved on, and NO ONE alive was responsible for it...
I agree with you there!

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Originally Posted by glatt View Post
I think Helen maybe held on to her job a little too long. Hadn't she ever heard of "leave them wanting more?" She should have taken a page from Walter Cronkite. Everyone was sad when he left. But she's leaving in disgrace.

Now if we can only get rid of Andy Rooney.
That would be the trifecta!
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:04 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by TheDaVinciChode View Post
It was a long time ago, we've all moved on, and NO ONE alive was responsible for it...
Obviously not everyone has moved on. And there are still a few people alive who are responsible for it. You've never heard of John Demjanjuk?
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:07 PM   #21
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Shaw - Go fuck yourself. You and I both agreed NOT to respond to each other. Care to try again?
No, dear, you started it by calling me a name. Care to try to cover your tracks again? You delete the other post because it wasn't worth the air you breathe to tell me to fuck off, then you post again to tell me to fuck off.

I'm surprised you didn't delete your outright lie post. Again, who WERE you talking to?

You fuck off you namby-pamby pantywaist.
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:12 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by glatt View Post
Obviously not everyone has moved on. And there are still a few people alive who are responsible for it. You've never heard of John Demjanjuk?
One man, or a few men...

Why must the whole Western world bend over for these people, when the vast majority of the people within, helped secure this pitiful* people's future? We didn't need to, we didn't have to, but we did... we've already done more than enough. We should NOT'VE given them Arab land, and we should NOT be helping, encouraging, or turning a blind eye to, them to take over more Arab land.

Did you know that, since the end of WWII, since we gave them Arab land (what right did we have?) that they've been continually expanding "their" territory? Fighting wars, occupying more Arab land... all sanctioned by "the powers that be," despite the fact that, anywhere else in the world, any other people in the world, we'd deplore their actions.

Disgusting, isn't it?

They're owed NOTHING. In fact, they owe the Western world EVERYTHING. We saved their pitiful* existence. We sent OUR people to die, to save them. Our fathers, our sons, our uncles, our cousins, or nephews... all to protect people they didn't even know, for no other reason than decency... something they've NEVER shown, in return.

They're STILL not thankful. Disgusting, isn't it?

Still, whatever... That was a long time ago, and fine, forget being thanked, let's just move on... but when will they move on?

(* I say "pitiful," because they're thankless cunts who feel like they're owed something... who constantly commit war crimes, crimes against humanity, whilst crying that it's fair, because it happened to them. They're no better than the Nazi Party. No better at all.)
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:35 PM   #23
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OK. So you hate the Jews, and you hate Israel. How do you feel about Hamas, who took over control of the Gaza strip by force and has sworn to wipe Israel from the map?
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:41 PM   #24
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since the end of WWII, since we gave them Arab land (what right did we have?)
You're not exactly a history student, are you?
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:44 PM   #25
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OK. So you hate the Jews, and you hate Israel. How do you feel about Hamas, who took over control of the Gaza strip by force and has sworn to wipe Israel from the map?
I completely disagree with any religious group, any religious agenda, and any form of genocide.

This is why religion and Government should NEVER mix. (I'm looking at you, too, America!)

As soon as a country is governed by religious fanatics, or overtly religious people, who allow their blind faith to obscure the reality of the world... that country becomes a corrupt cesspit of despair, and, for lack of a better word, sin... completely devoid of normality, logic, and actual morality.

Consider this - Had Israel not invaded Arab land, had they never been "given" Arab land... what beef would those in Palestine have, with them, so far from their home? I'm sure they'd still have a religious beef, but, beyond that...? Correct, sir... There wouldn't be one.

Now, take a look at the casualties, the deaths, an the international backing... tell me - who's got it worse?

... Indeed.

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You're not exactly a history student, are you?
I know more than you'd assume, good sir.

--

Oh, and I'd like to point out: I don't "hate" Jewish people, or people from Israel. I hate their "general" attitude.

As always, there are exceptions.

(I don't "hate" anyone, or anything... I just have a strong dislike for religion, and religious agendas.)
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Old 06-07-2010, 01:02 PM   #26
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You're not exactly a history student. So here it is.

The Brits ruled Palestine after WW1, but even during the war were puzzled exactly what to do with it, since it was basically filled with two warring factions. (You know which two.)

In general, even before WW2 -- even while the Brits were conquering the land in WW1 -- it was thought that there should be a Jewish state. But the Brits were not interested in enforcing their own decision, had been rapidly abandoning empire anyway, and post-WW2 had their own business to deal with. So they graciously agreed with the UN that the UN should handle it, in the name of the whole world.

So during 1947 the UN went off and had panels and whatnot, and came to the conclusion that the best way to manage this would be a two-state solution with UN jurisdiction over the shared Jerusalem.

The entire world voted on it, and basically the entire world agreed, except for the Islamic countries. And so the Israeli state was created, but the Arabs were furious with the arrangement, refused to set up a state, and went to war with the new Israel on day one.

This then became the war for Israel's independence, and we call it that because they won. They expanded to take as much land as was thought to be needed to protect the new state, as it was thought the 1947 borders were indefensible. And the area that would today be a Palestinian state was then occupied (!!!!!) by Jordan (east bank et al) and Egypt (gaza).

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what right did we have?
Well this is how land disputes work. The UN has a go at it, they fail, and then there's a war. The winner of the war gets the spoils.
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Old 06-07-2010, 01:13 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
You're not exactly a history student. So here it is.

The Brits ruled Palestine after WW1, but even during the war were puzzled exactly what to do with it, since it was basically filled with two warring factions. (You know which two.)

In general, even before WW2 -- even while the Brits were conquering the land in WW1 -- it was thought that there should be a Jewish state. But the Brits were not interested in enforcing their own decision, had been rapidly abandoning empire anyway, and post-WW2 had their own business to deal with. So they graciously agreed with the UN that the UN should handle it, in the name of the whole world.

So during 1947 the UN went off and had panels and whatnot, and came to the conclusion that the best way to manage this would be a two-state solution with UN jurisdiction over the shared Jerusalem.

The entire world voted on it, and basically the entire world agreed, except for the Islamic countries. And so the Israeli state was created, but the Arabs were furious with the arrangement, refused to set up a state, and went to war with the new Israel on day one.

This then became the war for Israel's independence, and we call it that because they won. They expanded to take as much land as was thought to be needed to protect the new state, as it was thought the 1947 borders were indefensible. And the area that would today be a Palestinian state was then occupied (!!!!!) by Jordan (east bank et al) and Egypt (gaza).



Well this is how land disputes work. The UN has a go at it, they fail, and then there's a war. The winner of the war gets the spoils.
This, I knew, and none of it takes away from my sentiment, or comment.

You're neglecting to mention the constant acts of violence, enacted by the state of Israel, often under the guise of something else, something unrelated, and often backed by powers beyond the Israeli-Arab states.

We still had no right to divide up that land, we had no right to intervene, at all.

We also had no need to do so... it was only through guilt, that the world felt we should help the Jewish people.

Misguided, unjust guilt. :/
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Old 06-07-2010, 01:34 PM   #28
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Guilt? The world anticipated a large Jewish emigration and the one thing they could agree on was that they'd rather it not be to their country. Hey, they have a place to go... and there it is.

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You're neglecting to mention the constant acts of violence, enacted by the state of Israel, often under the guise of something else, something unrelated, and often backed by powers beyond the Israeli-Arab states.
At what point in history?
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Old 06-07-2010, 02:23 PM   #29
TheDaVinciChode
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Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
Guilt? The world anticipated a large Jewish emigration and the one thing they could agree on was that they'd rather it not be to their country. Hey, they have a place to go... and there it is.



At what point in history?
Six-Day War of June 5–10, 1967.
Lebanon War of 1982.
Sabra and Shátila massacre between 16th and 18th of September 1982.

To name a very select few...

Many others are debatable, whether Arabs, or Jews, started the confrontation... It's a very sordid mess, with neither party being completely without blame... It's give-and-take, that's for sure... but the people (Military/Government, as well as a large portion of the population) of Israel try to claim absolute innocence... and the world lets them. That disturbs me, and annoys the crap out of me.

Currently, I'd side with the people of Palestine, simply because it's clear to any objective observer, that Israel is going over-the-top, showing little-to-no restraint, and, well... acting no better than the Nazi Party they still cry about. They won't stop, either, until certain countries stop backing them, and leave them to suffer the consequences of their actions.

It's a religious sect, within Palestine, that's causing most of the trouble against Israel... It's the Military, Government, and People of Israel, causing all of the trouble, against Palestine.

Who's more to blame? The entire country, attacking the country based on a (comparatively) small group of religious extremists (why does that sound familiar?) or the civilians having to suffer because said group of extremists?

Punish the few, not the many... Apparently, the Israeli people would rather punish the many, rather than the few.
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Old 06-07-2010, 02:48 PM   #30
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When you say
Quote:
enacted by the state of Israel, often under the guise of something else, something unrelated, and often backed by powers beyond the Israeli-Arab states
What in particular is it about the Six Day War that meets your description? Especially since you listed it first.
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