Perverting science for politics

[Urbane Guerrilla]

No, Fobble, I'm saying their power to do so is at its most sharply limited, and that therefore one shouldn't overdo the concern.

[Clodfobble]

But effectiveness aside, is it right or wrong for the administration (any administration) to stifle science and innovation? Personally, I'm able to make value judgments without overdoing anything.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Some, it appears, are not.

No, stifling innovation is not good.

Smashing fascist regimes and replacing them with democracies is too good to pass up. Now you know why I voted for Bush twice and do not have regrets.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Nor would I be in any hurry at all to say Bush hates technology -- because of the ones who are running up and down saying he does; these are people whose views I don't much trust -- on anything.

We get it. You hate tw.

But in this thread, he and others have provided many examples of Bush stifling science.

You probably missed it because it was in a tw post, but the former surgeon general said under oath "Anything that doesn't fit into the political appointees' ideological, theological or political agenda is ignored, marginalized or simply buried."

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Glatt, the same complaint about the previous Administrations was made at this same testimony -- C. Everett Koop and David Satcher, one each Republican and Democratic Administration figures, both complained of pressure from the White House and the effect it had on them. Jocelyn Elders could have made the same complaint, I should think.

I didn't happen to be speaking of tw in post #209, but of the grumbling herd of crazed anti-Republicans.

It's time to point out that the effect of a hostility to spending Federal cash on embryonic stem-cell research is going to be limited. It's limited in time -- until January 2008 most likely; it's limited in scope -- blastocysts are not the only source of stem cells as you well know, and other stem cell sources are not under interdict for Federal funding, and last I heard the other sources were showing even more potential.

Sooo, I don't give much weight to the anti-Republicans' exercises in propaganda and other intellectual dishonesty. You could look this kind of stuff up. How does it feel to have been played so?

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Glatt, the same complaint about the previous Administrations was made...

Yes, and that was mentioned in this thread three years ago too. What's different about Bush is how widespread it is. It's not just stem cell research, it's everything. EPA air quality, logging policy, sex ed, ANWR wildlife maps, & global warming are just a few examples. I'm not going to repost everything from this thread that has already been cited as an example, but go back and read the thread from the beginning. There are a lot of nails in this coffin.

[BigV]

Just kidding! More of the same!

Just three days after the decision to deny endangered species protection to the fluvial grayling, Julie MacDonald, assistant secretary for fish and wildlife in the Department of the Interior, was forced to resign after an investigation concluded that she rode roughshod over numerous decisions by agency scientists concerning protection of the nation's endangered species.

The report also found that MacDonald violated federal rules by sending internal documents to industry lobbyists with ChevronTexaco, the Pacific Legal Foundation, California Farm Bureau and others.

Known as the Bush administration's “attack dog,” MacDonald, who has no biological training, arbitrarily removed more than 80 percent of the streams that were to be protected to help bull trout recover in the Northwest's Klamath River basin and pressured the Fish and Wildlife Service to alter findings on the Kootenai River sturgeon in Idaho and Montana to preserve dam operations that impede fish migration.

Recent news reports now indicate that she likely had a hand in the decision to deny protections to the fluvial grayling.

And...

The Department of the Interior is expected to overturn politically-biased environmental decisions made by former high-profile employee Julie MacDonald, who during her three years mandate has constantly privileged industry lobbyists in detriment of alarming scientific reports.

Julie MacDonald, a senior political appointee working as a deputy assistant secretary for fish and wildlife and parks, was found guilty during an internal investigation of improperly using classified information and of favoring industry insiders over scientists.

A government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said last week that up to 10 decisions taken by MacDonald could be overturned or modified in a way that would allow the inclusion of several endangered species under the protection offered by Endangered Species Act. Among them are the Preble’s meadow jumping mouse found in the Rocky Mountains, the Southwestern willow flycatcher, the white-tailed prairie dog, 12 species of Hawaiian picture-wing flies, the arroyo toad, the California red-legged frog and the Canada lynx.

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service H. Dale Hall found MacDonald guilty of breaking federal rules and recommended punishment for MacDonald’s dictatorial behavior concerning biologists. Moreover, MacDonald was also heavily involved in delisting the endangered Sacramento splittail, a fish found only in California's Central Valley, while owning an 80-acre farm inside the fish’s habitat.

According to Washington Post, Julie MacDonald has consistently “rejected staff scientists’ recommendations to protect imperiled animals and plants under the Endangered Species Act.” A civil engineer with no training in biology, she has “overruled and disparaged” the findings of her staff, instead “relying on the recommendations of political and industry groups.” MacDonald resigned on May 1.

“We wouldn’t [reverse MacDonald’s actions] if we didn’t suspect the decision would be different,” Mr. Hall said in a telephone conference with journalists. “It’s a blemish on the scientific integrity of the Fish and Wildlife Service and the Department of the Interior.”

Hehehe... Bush's Attack Dog. Nice. This administration gets full marks for effectiveness, thoroughness, creativity, etc. in accomplishing their mission. Unfortunately, their mission seems to be promoting business interests at every turn. By itself this is not a bad thing. But there is no balance, no long term consciousness beyond the present political term, unless you consider the future lobbying opportunities being earned.

And worst of all is the utter disregard for our laws. To flout our rules, to ignore the rest of the constituency, to sidestep the process to achieve the desired result..ugh. Effective. But wrong.

[yesman065]

[Quote BigV]And worst of all is the utter disregard for our laws. To flout our rules, to ignore the rest of the constituency, to sidestep the process to achieve the desired result..ugh. Effective. But wrong.[/quote]

Politics as usual - very distressing. At least it is/was/will be rectified

[BigV]

ym65--it is not politics as usual. It is politics on crack, on steroids, cartoon politics. I find actions like this tantamount to redefining words, rewriting the rules of arithmetic. It is dangerous. How can we know about the truth about the world if inconvenient facts are simply discarded? You can believe what you want, me too. I don't really care how thoroughly private citizen A or lobby organization B does their fact checking.

But our government is charged with serving all of us. When they cavalierly, no, cravenly change the conclusions to suit their pre-established goals, it does great harm in three ways:

First, it is simply a lie. A Big Lie. A lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously".*

Second, it reduces the government's (already low) credibility. That wellspring of goodwill is replenished so slowly, that such a profligate waste should be a crime, injuring the public trust today and the citizens of tomorrow.

Second, it corrodes everyone's confidence in Science's ability to discover and express objective truth, and to do so in a verifiable way, that leaves room for the possibility of integrating new knowledge.

This is an attack on the very foundation of knowledge. they would rather be able to define any conclusion they present as truth. A Wolf in Science's clothing if you will. After Science has been eviscerated. They'll trade on the memory of science's reputation for articulating objective truth. But it will be all hollow inside, filled only with lies.







* Unattributed to avoid violating Godwin's Law.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by BigV

This is an attack on the very foundation of knowledge.

I couldn't agree more.

Finally, we should always fight, tooth and nail, against those who wish us to surrender to ignorance. As ignorant and insignificant as we are (and we most certainly are, to a degree our minds are incapable of comprehending) we have carved out a small niche of organized data, the qualities of which need constant protection from deliberate obfuscation. Knowledge is our most valuable resource, and attacks upon it are the most heinous crime.

[yesman065]

BigV - I did not mean to make light of it, but this is certainly not the first administration to do this, nor will it be the last. I hate that it is happening as much as you apparently do, but it seems to be a too familiar situation that has been repeated for far too long. Those in power serve themselves their reelections, getting more power/money... Serving their constituents or the American people has been nothing more than a byproduct. Simply put, Change is required.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by BigV

Just kidding! More of the same!



And...



Hehehe... Bush's Attack Dog. Nice. This administration gets full marks for effectiveness, thoroughness, creativity, etc. in accomplishing their mission. Unfortunately, their mission seems to be promoting business interests at every turn. By itself this is not a bad thing. But there is no balance, no long term consciousness beyond the present political term, unless you consider the future lobbying opportunities being earned.

And worst of all is the utter disregard for our laws. To flout our rules, to ignore the rest of the constituency, to sidestep the process to achieve the desired result..ugh. Effective. But wrong.

That is F'd up. That woman should go to prison.

[deadbeater]

Hey, has the Mercenary finally seen the light at the end of the tunnel?

[yesman065]

You mean the oncoming train???

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by BigV

ym65--it is not politics as usual.

It is for this administration.