tired of drama - Page 3

DanaC · 08-17-2006, 05:10 AM

bbro. There's a obviously a strong connection between you and this man. It's heartbreaking to love someone and know that they are alone in the world.

It's a terrible thing when parents have no caring for their children and it usually leads to those children having great difficulties later on: be that a difficulty in forming strong bonds as adults; a crushing sense of their own lack of worth; a determination never to let themselves be hurt again or a destructive streak that leads them to make errors in judgement which land them in trouble.

All of this can make such a person emotionally dangerous, but that doesn't mean they are not worth fighting for. You're the only one who knows if this fight is a worthwhile one, likely to result in a peaceful victory or an exercise in futility destined to rob you of years of your life and leave you wishing.

My advice, is to be careful and caring. Be there for him. But also be there for yourself. His troubles are not your troubles, but that doesnt mean you can't help him to overcome them. Just be sure that you are helping him with open eyes, you certainly sound like you are. Be ready to gently disengage, if you get the sense it is a bottomless pit.

bbro · 08-17-2006, 07:23 AM

Will do Bruce, nice saying - did you come up with that

Dana - wow, seems like you have been in this situation. You described him almost perfectly. That is why I want to get him away from his mother so that he can see he is worth something.

Thanks for all the replies - I do appreciate them. It helps me to think if this is a right thing I am doing or not.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-17-2006, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Will do Bruce, nice saying - did you come up with that

Yeah, it's the reader's digest version of the two trains of thought I had.

wolf · 08-18-2006, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbro

No, I know everything that he knows. It mainly said that he really appreciated what I was doing and that even though he was in there, he knows it won't be forever and that he is actually thinking about what he's been doing and what he wants to do. ...

No, I got the letter before I posted. I still feel overwhelmed. I will feel overwhelmed until this whole thing is done. It made me feel better because it made me see that he did appreciate the whirlwind I am in and that he isn't planning something stupid for when he gets out. He is going to get his life into shape and grow up.

Spending a lot of time around high recidivist criminals has taught me a number of things.

A couple of posts downstream from here you post things like "he doesn't know why he is there" and "his Parole Officer won't talk to me."

This tells me two things. First, the fact that he already has a Parole (not Probation) officer indicates that he is a career criminal. He has been in prison before, and instead of getting out and being put on probation, he is on Parole, which is a higher level of monitoring, and likely on a state or federal level of crime rather than county.

Second, his not knowing why he was placed in a correctional facility is bullshit. The rules of the game allow him to claim innocence or lack of responsibility, but everybody in jail or prison knows what their originating charges are.

You may derive some type of thrill for hanging out with a bad boy, but what's this doing to you?

bbro · 08-18-2006, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

Spending a lot of time around high recidivist criminals has taught me a number of things.

A couple of posts downstream from here you post things like "he doesn't know why he is there" and "his Parole Officer won't talk to me."

This tells me two things. First, the fact that he already has a Parole (not Probation) officer indicates that he is a career criminal. He has been in prison before, and instead of getting out and being put on probation, he is on Parole, which is a higher level of monitoring, and likely on a state or federal level of crime rather than county.

Second, his not knowing why he was placed in a correctional facility is bullshit. The rules of the game allow him to claim innocence or lack of responsibility, but everybody in jail or prison knows what their originating charges are.

You may derive some type of thrill for hanging out with a bad boy, but what's this doing to you?

I'm sorry, I have not been clear and careful in my postings. He has a probation officer - I always get them mixed up (I always assumed there was no difference until recently). He was on probation for a DUI. He violated the probation and that is why he is in there, but he doesn't know why he is still in there. His PO promised him he would not be in jail past his total 90 days (Aug 1st)

Many times I have wondered what attracted me to him. It actually isn't the bad boy thing. I actually don't like it too much. He's gotten himself under control a lot since we started getting serious. I like what I see when he is just with me. He is kind, tender, loving, and makes me feel worth something. Like no one has ever done before. We have been through a lot in out soon to be 1 year together and no matter what we always seem to not be able to stay away. Everytime we may have had a fight or done something REALLY stupid (me), when we were back together it was better than before.

Sorry, I guess I am rambling now.

DanaC · 08-18-2006, 05:15 PM

*smiles* you clearly love him, and he sounds like he is just a bit messed up to me. I get the impression Wolf tends to think the worst of people who have fallen foul of the system. Probably comes from working with people who really are dangerously on the edge....(or hurtling over the edge.) Don't be put out by her unwillingness to give this guy a break. I have no doubt she's seen many young women like you hurt by 'badboys' and probably seen many women attracted to those men for all the wrong reasons.

What's important is: does he treat you with kindness and respect? Do you feel like you are both equals within the relationship? do you fulfil each others' needs? is he worth it? are you?

It's always difficult to tell from forum posts, but my instinct is saying this lad is just a bit off the rails and with some pretty good reasons. Not every guy who needs rescuing is a lost cause and not every 'badboy' stays that way. Growing up is hard enough, but when your family isn't a part of that, if they're making you doubt your own worth, then sometimes that growing up takes a little longer and is more painful.

You've been with him a year you say? *smiles* the way you describe him and the way you describe your feelings for him, reminds me a lot of my first love. My only great love. We were together for 13 years. We split up but are still best friends. He was worth it, but we paid a great price at times. I don't know if I'd advise my younger self to stay the course, looking back. Then again, I don't know if I wouldn't. Of course, now we're both all grown up. He's a stable and gentle man and will make the right girl a wonderful husband :P

John Adams · 08-20-2006, 04:27 AM

So you say it was a simple violation of his probation. Probation he was put on for DUI.

First - No one is caught the first time they are DUI. Many of us (me included) believe that people that commit DUI are just murderers that have been lucky enough not to kill anyone yet.

Second - What was his violation? DUI again? Something else? You haven't mentioned it. And this whole "we don't know why he is still there" is just annoying.

Oh, by the way, a good user will know when to back off and let the guilt settle in so you will continue to help and he can continue to leech off of you.

DanaC · 08-20-2006, 07:59 AM

Out of interest bbro, how old is he?

bbro · 08-21-2006, 04:27 PM

Dana - There is only one time that we didn't get along (when I messed it all up), he wanted to hurt me, but when he saw what it was doing to me, he couldn't bring himself to do it, even though I deserved it (in my eyes). He has always been loving and honest with me. He didn't want to intentionally hurt me, but didn't lie to me to protect my feelings about what he saw happening with us in the very beginning of us.

He is my first love. He is 36. When I met him, he had lost his job, had to move back with his mother, was dealing with a bad breakup and a whole bunch of stuff. I think I gave him some hope that life isn't so bad (At least I like to think so)

xoxoxoBruce · 08-23-2006, 05:59 AM

People that have been fucked over, and maybe even more so, for people who've provided a shoulder to others that have been damaged, tend to build a list of flags/signs/patterns that indicate bad behavior. We all do it to some extent, it's only natural. It's also natural to add to, or modify, that list by applying personal pet peeves and hot buttons.

Some people become a walking, talking, early warning system, but as someone once said, if your looking for trouble, you'll find it.

Keeping in mind that every person and every situation is unique, will temper the temptation to condemn everyone that sets off your alarms. After all, those alarms should be cautions not automatic convictions.

In affairs of the heart, use your head, but don't discard your gut. The gut feelings, sixth sense, vibes, what ever you call it, are a valuable resource when balanced with rational/logical thinking.

Besides, it's better to have loved and lost, than never loved at all....as long as you practice damage control.

Kayami · 08-26-2006, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

People that have been fucked over, and maybe even more so, for people who've provided a shoulder to others that have been damaged, tend to build a list of flags/signs/patterns that indicate bad behavior. We all do it to some extent, it's only natural. It's also natural to add to, or modify, that list by applying personal pet peeves and hot buttons.

Some people become a walking, talking, early warning system, but as someone once said, if your looking for trouble, you'll find it.

Keeping in mind that every person and every situation is unique, will temper the temptation to condemn everyone that sets off your alarms. After all, those alarms should be cautions not automatic convictions.

In affairs of the heart, use your head, but don't discard your gut. The gut feelings, sixth sense, vibes, what ever you call it, are a valuable resource when balanced with rational/logical thinking.

Besides, it's better to have loved and lost, than never loved at all....as long as you practice damage control.

She wants him, so she will have him. So let her learn. She came here seeking advice, yet she is ignoring it. It's her heart and checkbook, why care.

This guy is a repeat screw up....his mother washed her hands of him for Pete's sake...that alone is an alarm that is the most loud.

She'll be here next year screaming emotional victim of a relationship gone bad or something.

Trilby · 08-26-2006, 08:34 AM

Hi, Kayami. Welcome.

I agree with your post 100%. Nothing we can say or point out as Bad Omens will dissuade her--as you said, she wants him. She tells us all the things that went wrong/bad and then backtracks--oh, those wrong/bad things were HER fault! He's truly a victim! His mother is bad, not him! Poor, poor baby. She's not nearly tired of the drama. Not nearly.

First time DUI's don't go to jail (if it's a simple DUI); what condition of probation did he manage to violate?; how old are you? (you said he was 36) and how much money have you spent on him?

DanaC · 08-26-2006, 10:25 AM

I think there are some possible warning signals here; however, the fact that his mother washed her hands of him may be more indicative of her being a bad mother than his having screwed up so much. The reason he is so unhappy and given to self destruction may be due to her lack of mothering. Personally I am instantly suspicious of any mother who wold 'wash her hands' of her child, regardless of their age or how much they fuck things up. In my view, your mother is the one person on the planet that you should be able to rely upon. She's the one who should love you unconditionally.

Stormieweather · 08-26-2006, 10:41 AM

Nope, Bbro has not reached her limit of drama. Some people complain about it, but are addicted to the excitement it brings. So they continue to stay involved and even stir the drama pot themselves from time to time.

DanaC, unconditional love doesn't mean continuing to bail (pun intended) the person you love out of their scrapes time after time. Sometimes, the best way to love someone is to let them face the consequences of their actions and learn a lesson or two.

Stormie

DanaC · 08-26-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

DanaC, unconditional love doesn't mean continuing to bail (pun intended) the person you love out of their scrapes time after time. Sometimes, the best way to love someone is to let them face the consequences of their actions and learn a lesson or two.

That's true enough. But I know enough people whose parents just didn't love them to know that it happens. I also know the devastating effect that can have on a person's self esteem. The effects don't stop just because someone reaches their majority.

08-23-2006, 05:59 AM	#40
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	People that have been fucked over, and maybe even more so, for people who've provided a shoulder to others that have been damaged, tend to build a list of flags/signs/patterns that indicate bad behavior. We all do it to some extent, it's only natural. It's also natural to add to, or modify, that list by applying personal pet peeves and hot buttons. Some people become a walking, talking, early warning system, but as someone once said, if your looking for trouble, you'll find it. Keeping in mind that every person and every situation is unique, will temper the temptation to condemn everyone that sets off your alarms. After all, those alarms should be cautions not automatic convictions. In affairs of the heart, use your head, but don't discard your gut. The gut feelings, sixth sense, vibes, what ever you call it, are a valuable resource when balanced with rational/logical thinking. Besides, it's better to have loved and lost, than never loved at all....as long as you practice damage control. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-26-2006, 08:34 AM	#42
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	Hi, Kayami. Welcome. I agree with your post 100%. Nothing we can say or point out as Bad Omens will dissuade her--as you said, she wants him. She tells us all the things that went wrong/bad and then backtracks--oh, those wrong/bad things were HER fault! He's truly a victim! His mother is bad, not him! Poor, poor baby. She's not nearly tired of the drama. Not nearly. First time DUI's don't go to jail (if it's a simple DUI); what condition of probation did he manage to violate?; how old are you? (you said he was 36) and how much money have you spent on him? __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum Last edited by Trilby; 08-26-2006 at 08:44 AM.

08-26-2006, 10:41 AM	#44
Stormieweather Wearing her bitch boots Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Floriduh Posts: 1,181	Nope, Bbro has not reached her limit of drama. Some people complain about it, but are addicted to the excitement it brings. So they continue to stay involved and even stir the drama pot themselves from time to time. DanaC, unconditional love doesn't mean continuing to bail (pun intended) the person you love out of their scrapes time after time. Sometimes, the best way to love someone is to let them face the consequences of their actions and learn a lesson or two. Stormie __________________ "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

08-17-2006, 05:10 AM	#31
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	bbro. There's a obviously a strong connection between you and this man. It's heartbreaking to love someone and know that they are alone in the world. It's a terrible thing when parents have no caring for their children and it usually leads to those children having great difficulties later on: be that a difficulty in forming strong bonds as adults; a crushing sense of their own lack of worth; a determination never to let themselves be hurt again or a destructive streak that leads them to make errors in judgement which land them in trouble. All of this can make such a person emotionally dangerous, but that doesn't mean they are not worth fighting for. You're the only one who knows if this fight is a worthwhile one, likely to result in a peaceful victory or an exercise in futility destined to rob you of years of your life and leave you wishing. My advice, is to be careful and caring. Be there for him. But also be there for yourself. His troubles are not your troubles, but that doesnt mean you can't help him to overcome them. Just be sure that you are helping him with open eyes, you certainly sound like you are. Be ready to gently disengage, if you get the sense it is a bottomless pit.

08-17-2006, 07:23 AM	#32
bbro Insert witty comment here Join Date: May 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,182	Will do Bruce, nice saying - did you come up with that Dana - wow, seems like you have been in this situation. You described him almost perfectly. That is why I want to get him away from his mother so that he can see he is worth something. Thanks for all the replies - I do appreciate them. It helps me to think if this is a right thing I am doing or not.

08-18-2006, 05:15 PM	#36
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	smiles you clearly love him, and he sounds like he is just a bit messed up to me. I get the impression Wolf tends to think the worst of people who have fallen foul of the system. Probably comes from working with people who really are dangerously on the edge....(or hurtling over the edge.) Don't be put out by her unwillingness to give this guy a break. I have no doubt she's seen many young women like you hurt by 'badboys' and probably seen many women attracted to those men for all the wrong reasons. What's important is: does he treat you with kindness and respect? Do you feel like you are both equals within the relationship? do you fulfil each others' needs? is he worth it? are you? It's always difficult to tell from forum posts, but my instinct is saying this lad is just a bit off the rails and with some pretty good reasons. Not every guy who needs rescuing is a lost cause and not every 'badboy' stays that way. Growing up is hard enough, but when your family isn't a part of that, if they're making you doubt your own worth, then sometimes that growing up takes a little longer and is more painful. You've been with him a year you say? smiles the way you describe him and the way you describe your feelings for him, reminds me a lot of my first love. My only great love. We were together for 13 years. We split up but are still best friends. He was worth it, but we paid a great price at times. I don't know if I'd advise my younger self to stay the course, looking back. Then again, I don't know if I wouldn't. Of course, now we're both all grown up. He's a stable and gentle man and will make the right girl a wonderful husband :P

08-20-2006, 04:27 AM	#37
John Adams Founder of Freedom Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58	So you say it was a simple violation of his probation. Probation he was put on for DUI. First - No one is caught the first time they are DUI. Many of us (me included) believe that people that commit DUI are just murderers that have been lucky enough not to kill anyone yet. Second - What was his violation? DUI again? Something else? You haven't mentioned it. And this whole "we don't know why he is still there" is just annoying. Oh, by the way, a good user will know when to back off and let the guilt settle in so you will continue to help and he can continue to leech off of you.

08-20-2006, 07:59 AM	#38
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Out of interest bbro, how old is he?

08-21-2006, 04:27 PM	#39
bbro Insert witty comment here Join Date: May 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,182	Dana - There is only one time that we didn't get along (when I messed it all up), he wanted to hurt me, but when he saw what it was doing to me, he couldn't bring himself to do it, even though I deserved it (in my eyes). He has always been loving and honest with me. He didn't want to intentionally hurt me, but didn't lie to me to protect my feelings about what he saw happening with us in the very beginning of us. He is my first love. He is 36. When I met him, he had lost his job, had to move back with his mother, was dealing with a bad breakup and a whole bunch of stuff. I think I gave him some hope that life isn't so bad (At least I like to think so)

08-26-2006, 10:25 AM	#43
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I think there are some possible warning signals here; however, the fact that his mother washed her hands of him may be more indicative of her being a bad mother than his having screwed up so much. The reason he is so unhappy and given to self destruction may be due to her lack of mothering. Personally I am instantly suspicious of any mother who wold 'wash her hands' of her child, regardless of their age or how much they fuck things up. In my view, your mother is the one person on the planet that you should be able to rely upon. She's the one who should love you unconditionally.

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