The New "Tolerance" - Page 10

06-28-2006, 04:32 PM

Don't make me put a Zeemer on ya'!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I'm a natural born lever-puller . . .

Oh.. BTW, that takes a trip to the Caymans.

richlevy · 06-28-2006, 07:10 PM

It's sort of enlightening that two of the United State's most prominent men, both of whom seem reluctant to discuss their personal faith, will be giving a total of about $60 billion to fight world disease and provide scholarships.

I do not know of the denomination or religious beliefs of either man and have never read or seen any interviews where they discuss their personal relationship with Jesus (or G-d, Buddha, etc). I think that there is a lesson here.

PizzaMonkey · 06-28-2006, 08:16 PM

Not all Christians are good, but niether are all Jews. Or Buddhists. Or _insert religion name here_. I think that if your religion teaches peace and virtues, and you are a "member" of that religion and you still go ahead and do immoral stuff, you aren't really part of that religion. Your just using religion as a nice facade for all the naughty stuff you're doing.

Kitsune · 06-29-2006, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PizzaMonkey

I think that if your religion teaches peace and virtues, and you are a "member" of that religion and you still go ahead and do immoral stuff, you aren't really part of that religion.

I'm sure you'll find that every extremist member of any religion will be happy to quote sources from their holy book backing up their violent/immoral actions. They don't even need to take the passages in any other form besides literally in most cases.

06-29-2006, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PizzaMonkey

Not all Christians are good, but niether are all Jews. Or Buddhists. Or _insert religion name here_. I think that if your religion teaches peace and virtues, and you are a "member" of that religion and you still go ahead and do immoral stuff, you aren't really part of that religion. Your just using religion as a nice facade for all the naughty stuff you're doing.

Buddhism is not a religion. Your logic is faulty, no one is perfect... by your thinking, no one is part of any religion.

Pie · 06-29-2006, 10:14 AM

Most religions don't require you to be perfect. They require that you try your best. (Or that you repent on your deathbed, whichever comes first.)

Bullitt · 06-30-2006, 10:32 AM

The way I view my Christianity is this:
Everyone has sinned, and will sin throughout their life. We do this because we were given free will to choose for ourselves how to live our lives. Along with this free will comes the decision, whether or not to accept that God exists, and he sent Jesus to die for us and give us the chance to redeem ourselves of our ongoing sin. We do this by just accepting that fact. Its not a complicated thing really, you admit, accept, and are forgiven. But if you truly believe it, then you won't have the mindset of "Sweet now I've got a free ticket into Heaven, lets party man! Where the hoes at!?"
The people who really believe feel heartfelt guilt over their sin, and strive to be better people, and set a non-verbal example to the people around them of how to live a decent life, doing the best they can. Real Christians don't think they are perfect, don't try to be perfect, and know that no one is perfect. They just try to live life how it was suppossed to be, without all the hatred.

Thats the doctrine or whatever you want to call it that I subscribe to.

Flint · 06-30-2006, 03:21 PM

I believe Jesus was a great teacher, and set a good example for others. I don't understand the purpose behind believing that he is "magic" or that there is some contrived scenario involving his death being a poker chip that God cashes in to the karma factory to make bad people turn good again. I don't see the value in that, and I don't understand the origins of that logical pretzel. I don't think it has anything to do with anything Jesus himself ever taught, which should be a "red flag" . . .

PizzaMonkey · 06-30-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I believe Jesus was a great teacher, and set a good example for others. I don't understand the purpose behind believing that he is "magic" or that there is some contrived scenario involving his death being a poker chip that God cashes in to the karma factory to make bad people turn good again. I don't see the value in that, and I don't understand the origins of that logical pretzel. I don't think it has anything to do with anything Jesus himself ever taught, which should be a "red flag" . . .

Er... flint, Jesus repeatedly claims to be God.

He's either nuts, evil, or telling the truth. As CS Lewis put it, Liar, Lunatic, or Lord. Not that I buy Christianity, but I just thought I'd put it out there.

And Buhddism isn't a religion? I sure seems like one.

And I wasn't saying people should be perfect, I think that they should try their hardest to resist the temptation to do something that will obviously hurt others. Doesn't mean they won't give in sometimes, doesn't mean they won't be conned into doing something wrong.

Bullitt · 06-30-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I believe Jesus was a great teacher, and set a good example for others. I don't understand the purpose behind believing that he is "magic" or that there is some contrived scenario involving his death being a poker chip that God cashes in to the karma factory to make bad people turn good again. I don't see the value in that, and I don't understand the origins of that logical pretzel. I don't think it has anything to do with anything Jesus himself ever taught, which should be a "red flag" . . .

This will probably sound like nonsense to you, but to me its not about understanding a purpose behind it all, its about feeling.

Reporter: "Mother Theresa, when you pray what do you say to God?"
Mother Theresa: "I do not say anything, I listen" Reporter: "Well as you listen to God, what does he say to you?"
Mother Theresa: "He doesn't say anything, He listens"

Contemporary logic does not apply to feeling, so it can never explain faith.

Flint · 06-30-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PizzaMonkey

Er... flint, Jesus repeatedly claims to be God.

That is one interpretation, yes - but not the only one, and . . . please humor me by explaining, specifically, does Jesus say anything about his death having magical qualities to the individual who just believes hard enough?

Flint · 06-30-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt

This will probably sound like nonsense to you, but to me its not about understanding a purpose behind it all, its about feeling.

It sounds perfectly natural, not nonsense at all. I just like to "understand" who actually came up with the dogma that people follow, out of respect to the teacher whose name it is being tacked on, IE Jesus - the guy who never said any of that stuff. And yes, there are people who would like to manipulate your "feelings" with this contrived dogma. My point is: what does it have to do with the message that Jesus taught? That, I would think, is the important part, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Contemporary logic does not apply to feeling, so it can never explain faith.

I think Jesus would appreciate you applying some logic to the interpretation of his message in it's pure, beautiful form, before all the complex political agendas turned it into a farce. In that case, logic would be your ally. In that case, I think Jesus would appreciate the use of some logic to slice away the garbage that he has been slandered with.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-30-2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt

The way I view my Christianity is this:
Everyone has sinned, and will sin throughout their life. ~snip

Yeah but the tricky part is what is a sin and what is not. Ask ten people and you'll get ten answers.
Churches (organized religions) have clerics that are quick to tell you this or that is a sin but they don't agree with each other.
So who decides, God?

Ibby · 06-30-2006, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PizzaMonkey

And Buhddism isn't a religion? I sure seems like one.

Buddhism, to me, isnt a religion, because it asks for no faith. It's all logic and facts, all grounded in reality. It doesnt ask you to believe that buddha is some all-powerful being, just that he is a teacher.

Happy Monkey · 07-01-2006, 06:30 AM

Sort of like Jefferson's Jesus, I suppose.

06-28-2006, 07:10 PM	#137
richlevy King Of Wishful Thinking Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Philadelphia Suburbs Posts: 6,669	It's sort of enlightening that two of the United State's most prominent men, both of whom seem reluctant to discuss their personal faith, will be giving a total of about $60 billion to fight world disease and provide scholarships. I do not know of the denomination or religious beliefs of either man and have never read or seen any interviews where they discuss their personal relationship with Jesus (or G-d, Buddha, etc). I think that there is a lesson here. __________________ Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE! I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama

06-29-2006, 10:14 AM	#141
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	Most religions don't require you to be perfect. They require that you try your best. (Or that you repent on your deathbed, whichever comes first.) __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

06-30-2006, 10:32 AM	#142
Bullitt This is a fully functional babe lair Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,324	The way I view my Christianity is this: Everyone has sinned, and will sin throughout their life. We do this because we were given free will to choose for ourselves how to live our lives. Along with this free will comes the decision, whether or not to accept that God exists, and he sent Jesus to die for us and give us the chance to redeem ourselves of our ongoing sin. We do this by just accepting that fact. Its not a complicated thing really, you admit, accept, and are forgiven. But if you truly believe it, then you won't have the mindset of "Sweet now I've got a free ticket into Heaven, lets party man! Where the hoes at!?" The people who really believe feel heartfelt guilt over their sin, and strive to be better people, and set a non-verbal example to the people around them of how to live a decent life, doing the best they can. Real Christians don't think they are perfect, don't try to be perfect, and know that no one is perfect. They just try to live life how it was suppossed to be, without all the hatred. Thats the doctrine or whatever you want to call it that I subscribe to. __________________ Kiss my white Irish ass. Last edited by Bullitt; 06-30-2006 at 10:36 AM.

06-30-2006, 03:21 PM	#143
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I believe Jesus was a great teacher, and set a good example for others. I don't understand the purpose behind believing that he is "magic" or that there is some contrived scenario involving his death being a poker chip that God cashes in to the karma factory to make bad people turn good again. I don't see the value in that, and I don't understand the origins of that logical pretzel. I don't think it has anything to do with anything Jesus himself ever taught, which should be a "red flag" . . . __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

07-01-2006, 06:30 AM	#150
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Sort of like Jefferson's Jesus, I suppose. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

06-28-2006, 08:16 PM	#138
PizzaMonkey Will my Title ever stop changing? Oh, I guess it has now... Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 70	Not all Christians are good, but niether are all Jews. Or Buddhists. Or _insert religion name here_. I think that if your religion teaches peace and virtues, and you are a "member" of that religion and you still go ahead and do immoral stuff, you aren't really part of that religion. Your just using religion as a nice facade for all the naughty stuff you're doing.

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