Taking the kids to the bar

[anonymous]

So, what are your thoughts about two moms that decide to meet up one evening, say 7 ish, and go to a bar to hear some live music because they know a couple of the musicians. One of the moms frequents this bar.

The bar has no food apart from sometimes having pretzels.

Oh, yeah, they each have their two kids along because this is their custody night:
a 4 year old, two seven year olds, an 11 their* 11 year old pal.

*to mask gender although I hate the use of it.

[Clodfobble]

For me it really depends on the atmosphere of the bar, and there's no good set of descriptive rules that I can come up with. It's like obscenity; I know it when I see it.

That being said, though, I would probably take issue with a 4-year-old being out anywhere past 9:00, but that's just me.

[xoxoxoBruce]

A lot of places that would be illegal, and I can't imagine the management being happy about it anywhere. But if one of the women is a regular and they're both friends of the band, the management might be more understanding.

[Undertoad]

It will be too loud for the youngsters. Young ears are damaged by high volumes. The atmosphere and booze are no problem.

The musicians are probably a good role model in every way.*







*this is the part where i was being ironic, not the other parts

[anonymous]

It's a dive bar that is trying to attract a hipper crowd while not alienating the their main customer base who are cheap beer drinking DWI having, done some time for running over a cop being folks. There's a pool table, and primarily professional drinkers.

[Undertoad]

Well the good thing about this situation is, it's unlikely to result in kids number 5 and/or 6, at least on this one night. Because nothing will kill boners, even musician boners, faster than having someone else's ankle-biters around. I don't know this from experience, mind you. Some things you just know.

And the bad thing about this situation is, everything else. Let's not even start with the bar. Let's start with this is their custody night. In most jurisdictions, the mom winds up with custody, and the dad winds up with custody night. As evolved as we may be, that's just how it is, in most jurisdictions AND in most circumstances. If mom doesn't have custody that is already a very bad sign for mom. Something isn't working out for her, or hasn't worked out to the point where it could be brought up in court.

But you are telling us that two moms have wound up with only custody night. And they have gotten together, and worked it out, so that they get the same night. BFFs!

The correct answer here is, the dads should be notified that custody night destination is the bar. That way it can become a part of the next hearing, and a real adult can try and make a decision on all these childrens' behalf.

[limey]

What he said. I sympathise in some ways with the mums but they have other nights to go to bars and hang out with musicians. Priorities, folks, priorities.

[Sundae]

It's the lateness of the hour on what is presumably a school night which would bother me.
Children need routine and rules, and to do this for no other reason than a custody night happens to fall on the same night that your friends are playing... well - children should come first.

If it was that big of a deal, then they should have negotiated a change of custody night.

When we went on holiday we'd be out way past our bedtime, and usually in places that served alcohol/ played music/ had other patrons who didn't have a reasonable understanding of general etiquette (I learned quite a few swear words hearing Scouse Mums talk to their kids when we went on holiday). Even then it wasn't every night, because my parents couldn't afford it every night.

And when our Uncles came down from London we would always go out for an evening in Dad's work social club, where children were allowed, but yes it had its fair share of semi-professional drinkers (they must have had jobs at the firm in order to be members). But again, it was understood that this was the exception not the norm and would only ever have occurred over the weekend.

I'm not the best example of a kid exposed early to alcohol turning out perfectly fine, but my sister (normal, casual drinker) and my brother (teetotal) show that it was nature, not nurture.

I suppose that the bottom line is that even if the mothers are being irresponsible, at least they're not leaving the kids alone at home under the dubious care of the 11 year old.

[DanaC]

Maybe the kids like the music?

My nieces both spent a good amount of their early childhood at music festivals and live music events. Where adults were generally drinking (at a minimum).

but not dive bars - the worst of that kind of place they might have gone to would be the Trades Club in Heb - but there were quite often youngsters about for events there.

The most worrying things to my mind about the two women at the bar with their kids are: first the noise levels - outdoor festivals don't slam the ears quite like a small, indoor set - and second the 'custody night' issue. If you have your kids for a night, how are they not your sole focus that night? I wouldn't want to be out with friends watching music - We'd be snuggled up at home watching a DVD together.

[sexobon]

Are the two moms bringing the children along as a responsibility crutch because that's the only way the moms can stay on good behavior at a bar?

Are the moms using the children to antagonize the dads?

Are the moms aware that hearing loss from exposure to high sound levels is cumulative and not reversible?

Were the moms consuming alcohol, both moms or was there a designated chaperone to deal with the possibility of inebriated problem patrons? It wasn't stated in the opening post. Was that intentional?

What are your thoughts on someone who raises these questions in people's minds.

[anonymous]

Some clarifications:

In more progressive states the courts are seeing 50-50 joint custody as being in the best interests of the kids. That is what the situation is here. Yes, school night. Out of the bar by 8:00pm approx. One of the moms has her kids almost all the time (separated recently) Neither is dating or hanging out w/ the musicians, they are all part of a larger social group.
supposedly one mom was drinking NA beer. tow kids were left to play pool, the youngest were at with the parents at a table near the loud music. (It was bluegrass so probably not deafeningly loud, but still indoors and loud)

AFAIK the goal isn't antagonism as one dad at any rate just found out about this recently, though it happened last month.

The moms should know about hearing loss and noise.

At least one mom was consuming alcohol.

The kids were bored to tears, one mom claims she wanted to expose the kids to music, a worthy idea but this is not a music festival and there were no other kids there.

These two moms were likely using this as an excuse to get together and do whatever it is they do when they get together. They are pretty much best buds bonding over broken marriages and alliteration. It seems to me that their priority on this evening was hanging out over responsibilities with the kids.

As for the kind of person who raises these questions in people's minds, I'd say that his initial query was lacking in what turned out to be important details.

I'd think the biggest problem in this scenario is thinking that a bar (any bar, however tony- upscale not subtoad- is an ok place to take kids short of escaping imminent peril.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by anonymous

I'd think the biggest problem in this scenario is thinking that a bar (any bar, however tony- upscale not subtoad- is an ok place to take kids short of escaping imminent peril.

The thing is, around here there is a very wide and nuanced spectrum of what some people might call a "bar." Live music events are at full saturation in my city, and alcohol is served at most of them, but within those parameters there are places which are downright kid-friendly, all the way to seedy dive bars where no human being ought to go, let alone children.

But based on the later description of the bar in question, hell-fucking-no.

[Undertoad]

Wull,

Having spent a good deal of time in drinking establishments at a young age, the location doesn't really matter TOO much. It's not like you learn to be an alcoholic by watching other alcoholics when you're young. Bar, restaurant, library, it's all roughly the same experience to a four-year-old, except for the volume. One could get away with it if the "general" behavior in the bar is OK.

It's that the protective instincts of the moms that did not kick in, and did not kick in together, that is actually the worrisome part. "We are going to take these children to see men we would like to get it on with, in an unpredictable setting where things could go horribly wrong," is the worrisome part. Not "we get with the men and then wait six weeks to determine that they are fine upstanding individuals (twelve weeks if one is a drummer) before introducing the young ones to them by taking them to a neutral location first, then next week to the bar if everything goes well".

[anonymous]

@cf
this is a bar for drinking that occasionally has live music as opposed to a music venue that serves alcohol.

@toad
They weren't there for the musicians, they both have guys that they are into, this was most likely a time for them to hang out together and rather than do it at a place that put the kids first, eg mini golf, chucky cheese, pixar film, playground, they opted for a place that appealed to them and the kids were collateral appendages.

[Undertoad]

Ah see I'm always reading the musicians into their pants. My confusion.