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Old 09-27-2011, 05:32 AM   #7501
Griff
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Good for her! Do you think the hippie school probably helped her become a creative problem solver?
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:06 AM   #7502
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Some of that, for sure. Mostly I think it taught her that she's in charge of and responsible for her own education, so when she encounters something she doesn't know, she doesn't have the "nobody told me" or the "we didn't cover this yet" attitude that I've seen in some kids (and I guess been surprised by), and she doesn't rely on anyone to remind her when stuff is due.

They always tell us that the transition from the small, friendly, sheltered, co-operative school to the big competitive high schools is easy and Open School kids come out on top, but I guess we don't believe it 'til we see it.

I also didn't know that AC classes bump up theri grades, so the grades I'm seeing on powerschool are lower than her final grade will be for those classes if she keeps it up.

I'm just relieved that she's made the transition OK, that the intense swimming schedule is not affecting her grades and that she's getting the grades I hoped she would (better, even). It's all too easy for parents to overestimate their children's academic and multitasking abilities.
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:12 AM   #7503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster
Mostly I think it taught her that she's in charge of and responsible for her own education, so when she encounters something she doesn't know, she doesn't have the "nobody told me" or the "we didn't cover this yet" attitude that I've seen in some kids (and I guess been surprised by), and she doesn't rely on anyone to remind her when stuff is due.
This. The self-reliance thing is so important, and sadly is pretty much ignored by the public school system.
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:38 PM   #7504
ZenGum
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Aboslutely, I see first year uni students drowning because they lack this.

But when you link teacher's jobs and incomes to standardised test results, and then don't test for things like this ...
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:03 PM   #7505
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Not a teachers job to teach self-reliance. That is good parenting.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:09 PM   #7506
Aliantha
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Zen, dazza tells me that he's noticing a growing number of students entering uni without the ability to write reports and things like that and who seem to expect the lecturer to practically write their papers for them. For example, he'll send them a web address to look for info, and they respond by asking for the exact link that corresponds to what they're doing.

This is a massive problem as I see it.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:14 PM   #7507
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Originally Posted by ZenGum View Post
Aboslutely, I see first year uni students drowning because they lack this.

But when you link teacher's jobs and incomes to standardised test results, and then don't test for things like this ...
yeah it killed me last night to hear "your disabled/IEP students have to reach this % of reading and math proficiency for us to pass this test. if they don't, you're going to be seeing a lot more homework and your kids are going to be asked to stay after school and come in on Saturdays...." because that will really help. if they're not getting it, doing it more achieves nothing. you need to do it differently and that takes time. this is some crappy new measurement call Adequate Yearly Progress AYP Absolute Yard of Poop imo.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:19 PM   #7508
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I think it depends what they're doing exactly. Sometimes repetition does help. Usually it should be a combination of things. It really depends if they're developing or consolidating knowledge. If they're just in the early stages of consolidating, they're likely to benefit from repetition.

I hope they can find a way to work towards helping all the kids. It's hard to tailor a solution individually if the parents aren't involved though thanks to the limited resources available to teachers.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:30 PM   #7509
classicman
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Quote:
your disabled/IEP students have to reach this %
Yup. Been dealing with that for 2 years.
Me: He has virtually no short term memory. What are our alternatives?
Teach: Work harder, more homework, worksheets...
Me: He has NO memory! THAT is his disability.
Teach: your disabled/IEP students have to reach this %
Wash, rinse & repeat.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:39 PM   #7510
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Sometimes in special circumstances you need to do the research yourself classic. See if you can find out what the alternatives are for yourself then teach the teacher, or at least give them the info you've found and discuss the practicalities, but seriously, no one teaches teachers what to do in every situation. Sometimes it's helpful to do a bit of the legwork yourself. Teachers just don't have enough time to do it all themselves, and even the ones who really do care don't have the time and often/usually no resources.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:43 PM   #7511
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That is another story. We have gone far past this point. He is now in with a teacher who is much better for him and with him. Its been fantastic, honestly. There are still issues, but we discuss how to overcome them and we both have been innovative in our approach and united in the direction of the lessons. For this year (summer plus a month) its been a win/win/win.
Resources are basically all on me. That was fine when I had an income. Now its a little tougher, but we are still managing. I REALLY want to get him a tablet, but there is no way that is gonna happen till I find a new job.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:44 PM   #7512
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the point where they are sending the extra homework and scheduling extra classes is long after repetition has failed as a reinforcement tool.

And it's often not the best tool in the first place. But it is the easiest to administer, monitor and grade. And it does work for most, eventually. But not for all, and notably not for a lot of students with IEPs. that's kind of the point of IEPs, i thought, but apparently this stupidity trumps IEPs. MAKE IT SO!
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:49 PM   #7513
monster
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And, just as a fwiw -Hebe has barely had any homework prior to high school. certainly no printed worksheets. She's getting A+ across the board. Not without effort, but the point being that the lack of repetition to this point clearly hasn't damaged her. At our alternative school, once you have something, you reinforce it by helping/teaching others who haven't got it yet. Works a treat. And the kids don't come to hate homework and school. it's funny, our kids hit highschool and they kinda view homework as fun (doubt that will last) -a bit like they did when the preschool teacher gave them "homework" to find and bring in something starting with a certain letter for alphabet week.
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Old 09-27-2011, 11:36 PM   #7514
ZenGum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman View Post
Not a teachers job to teach self-reliance. That is good parenting.
Well, not just self-reliance, but initiative, responsibility, many things. Not a teacher's job? I'd say mostly it is parenting, but teachers can help - and they can also undo a lot of good. If the learning strategy is "here is a list of all the facts you need to know, beat them into your heads however you can", then the students will be trained into dependency and sheepicity. (That is so a cromulent word). If the strategy is 'pick a topic, find out stuff, tell us about it" then there is a bit more independence. If it is "find a problem, solve it" then this should foster independent thinkers.

The art of teaching is creating a situation with the right degree of support and freedom.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliantha View Post
Zen, dazza tells me that he's noticing a growing number of students entering uni without the ability to write reports and things like that and who seem to expect the lecturer to practically write their papers for them. For example, he'll send them a web address to look for info, and they respond by asking for the exact link that corresponds to what they're doing.

This is a massive problem as I see it.
Yup. Remember, my job is the back-up academic who students like that get referred to. Quite a lot of students are scarecly able to do more thinking than cut-and-paste from a source. Some of them struggle to do that.

To be educated today, IMHO, is not knowing a whole heap of facts, but rather having the ability to figure out what information you need, to find it, to assess the source for reliability, and to apply that information to solve your challenge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
At our alternative school, once you have something, you reinforce it by helping/teaching others who haven't got it yet. Works a treat.

: to your school learning strategy! MUCH better than more rote learning.
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Old 09-28-2011, 04:01 AM   #7515
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No finer way to consolidate knowledge than to teach someone else what you've learned.
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