mother lets children die in hot car while getting her hair done.

[MaggieL]

In some cases, one could hope that the purpose of the penal system is to reform the offender. But a lot of the time is purely for behavior shaping purposes.

Actually, *I'm* looking for a suitable punishment for people who say things like "I know I'm talking out my ass and this is real stupid but blah blah blah blah...." in a public forum.

If you *are* talking out your ass and it *is* really stupid, why post it?

[Undertoad]

Because sometimes you just want to be social and you don't want people to pound your ass for it.

[warch]

To communicate with the other ass talkers. (is this a new Nick Cage vehicle?) Hail brave one daring stupidity in public!

[vsp]

For the commercial viability.

[Nic Name]

correct vBcode is [asstalking]my stupid comments[/asstalking]

[perth]

Put simply, when you fuck up that big, you forfeit your right to live a normal life.

amen.

the idea of saying "were sending you to jail to rehabilitate you" to this woman makes me sick. she doesnt need rehabilitation, she needs punishment. the rehabilitation hopefully occured about 10 seconds after she realized she killed her children. "oh, shit. my kids are dead and its fucking hot in here. guess i wont do that again". if she has any brains at all, she already knows shes failed catastrophically as a mother. all that remains is for her to get her comeuppance.

~james

[MaggieL]

Originally posted by Undertoad
Because sometimes you just want to be social and you don't want people to pound your ass for it.

Must be some new meaning of "social" with which I am unfamiliar . Besides, don't people usually pound the part that's talking? :-) If you don't want your ass pounded, talk with your hands or something.

Next, on blackbeltjones.com: asschalking

[seer]

sorry, maggie, for the "talking out my ass". I just noticed a change in topic from this criminal woman to her punishment, and I wanted to change the topic to just punishment.

I think the main purpose of jail time should be "keep the crime from happening again".

As for this, i would have to add "for a few years." Of course, I don't have a replacement for jail time, and I really don't know enough on the subject to assert anything... I just wanted to see the conversation keep going.

Seer

[tw]

Originally posted by perth
the rehabilitation hopefully occured about 10 seconds after she realized she killed her children. "oh, shit. my kids are dead and its fucking hot in here. guess i wont do that again". if she has any brains at all, she already knows shes failed catastrophically as a mother.

I first ask about reasons for her mistake. Only then can I proceede to answer what is appropriate legal action.

Too many are more concerned about their rights then their responsibilities to maintain those rights. She was more concerned with her own personal needs before she was concerned with responsibilities to her kids. Then she continued worrying about her rights rather than her responsiblities to society. She made no effort to revive the kids AND she made no effort to confront her mistakes. So again, she was more concerned with her rights than with her responsibilities. She continues to violate personal responsibilities that are required of all adults. Therefore she has not demonstrated any rehabilitation - and probably never will. She repeatedly demonstrates actions that only a criminally irresponsible person would perform.

I have no problem with the death penalty. I have a serious problem with how it is implemented - by a legal system more interested in winning a case than in the purpose of the law.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by seer
sorry, maggie, for the "talking out my ass". I just noticed a change in topic from this criminal woman to her punishment, and I wanted to change the topic to just punishment.

Why apologize? That was a good post...at least in this asstalker's opinion.

I believe part of the problem with prison is that too much is put into the punishment aspect, and not into the rehabilitation part. In addition, the criminal element still exists in many, if not most, prisons (guards sneaking contraband in, prisoners attacking each other with homemade weapons, etc.). Yes, if you commit a crime, you should lose some (if not all) of your freedom. But if we don't try to make these people better people, then what good is it really? The recidivism rates are disturbing.

There are a lot of utopian ideas that I think could be employed to prevent future criminals, like better environments in which to grow up, leveling the playing field, etc. But anyway...perhaps it's time to employ some of Skinner's techniques to achieve better results. Offer positive reinforcements, lower the punishment factor...after all, the people are already locked up.

There's also the possibility that this woman was just a bad seed to begin with...one that will never be a productive member of society:

--"Court records showed that Tarajee Maynor, 25, ignored court dates and traffic tickets. Her driver's license was suspended three times and she has been barred from driving since 1999.

Maynor pleaded guilty in September 1999 to stealing more than $15,000 in jewelry from her then-employer, Service Merchandise in Livonia, Mich., The Associated Press reported. A warrant was reportedly issued after she did not appear for sentencing in January 2000." (WDIV-TV, Detroit)

This of course is an incomplete picture, but it does offer some possible clues. I'd say at this point that there is little chance she will get less than life in prison, but perhaps there is a chance to make her a better person behind bars.

Good post seer...you might be interested in Skinner's "Walden Two."

[MaggieL]

Originally posted by sycamore

I believe part of the problem with prison is that too much is put into the punishment aspect, and not into the rehabilitation part.

The idea that the first purpose of a prison is "rehabilitation" is relatively recent. In fact the word itself is a little question-begging; it suggests *restoring* a condition that for meny criminals has never existed: an ethical system strong enough to keep them from comitting crime.

It's far from clear that the state knows how to do this.

In addition, the criminal element still exists in many, if not most, prisons...

Cookie!

Finding criminality in prisons isn't really all that surprising, is it?

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by MaggieL
It's far from clear that the state knows how to do this.

True. I think part of that depends on the funding a state gives to its corrections system. How much is it really worth to them? What is their own intent for criminals?

Cookie!

???

Finding criminality in prisons isn't really all that surprising, is it?

Well, yes and no. Obviously, you have a place full of convicted criminals. But if they're in prison for being a criminal, and part of the purpose is punishment, why expose them to any more criminality?

[seer]

So, that begs the question: Is the "punishment" being in jail, or getting ass fucked in jail? And is the system using that as a deterrent?

Time To sleep.

[MaggieL]

Originally posted by sycamore

Well, yes and no. Obviously, you have a place full of convicted criminals. But if they're in prison for being a criminal, and part of the purpose is punishment, why expose them to any more criminality?

And how do you avoid that? It's not like the crime going down inside is encouraged; it's simply too expensive to prevent.

The prison represents an attempt to at least isolate the most dangerous behavior away from the bulk of society. They're simply not able to totally prevent it inside. That the criminals victimize each other isn't really by design, but rather a side effect..

[perth]

FUCK!

as common as this is, i cant believe punishment for such stupidity is as lenient as it is.

A 38-year-old man has been charged with failing to provide the necessities of life after his young children were left in a car at a Scarborough plaza yesterday — a day when both a heat alert and smog advisory were in effect.

maybe theyre charging him with failing to blah blah blah, but he is guilty of child abuse. why dont people see that?

~james