Future Platform of Computing

[Scopulus Argentarius]

In the pc world....We gone beyond the age( so to speak) of programs that do a task well (mid - late 80's) to programs that do a task shared among people (client-server mid to late 90's) to programs that have integrated workflow (late 90's early 00's)to chincy web apps {that seem to take us back 15 years in usability} (here and now) ; all of which for the most part have been based or aimed to x86 microsfot OSes. {yeah, I run mozilla firebird - I still have to use IE for some webapps - bstrds..)


I've done the qbasic, pds, c, assembly, vb, et multi-al and I've been in a quandry for the last few years figuring out the next big trend/paridig-em in sw development.

I have not liked the direction MS has taken in the last 4 years and I want to know your opinion on 'whats gonna work' for the near future. I am avoiding the MS centric approach until I have to.


P.S.
The book I am currently reading is "Creating Applications with Mozilla" (yeah, its an O'REILLY)

[Razorfish]

Yea I know what you mean, I'm getting tired of Microsoft too. Its not that I don't like Microsoft but their desire to completely run the show isn't neccessaily a good thing. With their big push of Windows 2003 Server and the .NET architecture I'm always looking for alternatives. In Windows, how do you think outside the box when everything literally is a box.

Personally I think the open source community is getting ready to shine. Some of the developments and business strides coming out of Red Hat are looking good (hopefully this SCO thing blows over). Also, IBM seems to be dedicating a lot of resources towards open source. Even small stuff like the release of open web browsers such as Mozilla show us that Microsoft is leader in sales but not in innovation. I write this while using Mozilla Firebird (it kicks IEs ass).

But... 90% of everything is still tied into Windows and IE. For some real cool stuff to happen in the future I think this will have to slowly change. I'm going to say something thats only been said a thousand times: Computer manufacturers and consumers need to see that the alternatives to Windows are truly step above and that the conversion is easy. I find no difficulty with Mozilla or Linux but most consumers don't have or want a background in programming or general computer science.

In my limited experience (compared to other members of The Cellar) thats where I think things are going.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I find no difficulty with Mozilla or Linux but most consumers don't have or want a background in programming or general computer science.

I think you nailed it. Most computer...make that PC, users are non geeks. I'm sure the number of help desk experienced people in the Cellar will confirm that. What they (we) want is to plug it in and go get our email and our porn sites.
Would you want to buy a car and then have to add your own options? Have to find out how to make the power brakes compatible with the disc player and trunk release? Naw, you want to turn the key and go.
Windows is like the model T Ford. Certainly not the best, but common enough to give you a large pool of semicompetent users to compare notes with.

[SteveDallas]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Would you want to buy a car and then have to add your own options? Have to find out how to make the power brakes compatible with the disc player and trunk release? Naw, you want to turn the key and go.
Windows is like the model T Ford.

But the early automobile owner did indeed have to have a fair amount of knowledge about the car. And, I think, you still need to know SOMETHING about what's under the hood if you don't want to be completely at the mercy of mechanics in deciding what needs to be done with your car. I'm not saying you need to be able to rebuild a transmission, but when they suggest that it might be time to replace your spark plugs or your timing belt, it's nice to have half a clue what they're talking about. ("Yeah, go ahead and do the timing belt... I don't want it to break, it's already been 10,000 miles since it was last changed." )

[Scopulus Argentarius]

Originally posted by SteveDallas

But the early automobile owner did indeed have to have a fair amount of knowledge about the car. And, I think, you still need to know SOMETHING about what's under the hood if you don't want to be completely at the mercy of mechanics in deciding what needs to be done with your car. I'm not saying you need to be able to rebuild a transmission, but when they suggest that it might be time to replace your spark plugs or your timing belt, it's nice to have half a clue what they're talking about. ("Yeah, go ahead and do the timing belt... I don't want it to break, it's already been 10,000 miles since it was last changed." )

as far as deployment and development platforms, I am very unsure. Don't like microsfot, not sure of many Open Source dev tools , like various linux(es), like Zope and Python (and wxPython and Boa-constructor {needs work...})

As far as plug-n-play ease of use...I think some O.S. distros have caught up and passed whin32.....has anyone ever booted up a knoppix distro ( regular or std )? It rocks and configures easier (automatically) than win-duh's ever did. My 10 year old uses it to listen to cds and play games...

[jaguar]

Right platform for the right job. A move towards open standards (slowly, gradually) by everything but windows is helping, XML, RDF and other standardised forms on information interchange are having and are going to have a massive impact.

In terms of alternatives on the desktop I'd *love* to see something like VMWare as well intergrated into a linux desktop as classic emulation is on the mac - just open the application as per normal and bingo!

Interesting to note dave, who's a coder by trade hasn't chimed in.

[Tobiasly]

Good news for us infantry guys... the Army has decided to <a title="Land Warrior Follows Simpler Path" href="http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/article.cfm?Id=1238">switch from Windows to Linux</a> as the OS which will power the upcoming Land Warrior program, which promises to make soldiers much more Halo-like ("The idea is for members of a platoon to be able to pass around battlefield procedural messages, graphics, alerts and other pieces of information that currently are communicated by hand signals and voice").

To quote the press release, “Evidence shows that Linux is more stable. We are moving in general to where the Army is going, to Linux-based OS.” Nice to know I won't get a BSOD while closing in on the bad guys. W00t!!1

[Undertoad]

That's outstanding!!! There is no other organization in the world that has a greater need for a completely license-free, completely open, etc. operating system. This goes so far further when you consider that support is outsourced overseas. A large organization can support Linux itself if it has the right mix of engineers to support it.

The US military, hell the entire US government should not base its future on the whims of MS development cycles.

[russotto]

It's just a symptom of interservice rivalry between the Army and the Marines. The Army adopted in enthuiastically when someone told them that Linux never BSODs -- instead, it dumps Corps.

[tw]

I have a problem with an implied premise of this discussion. Apparently we are still thinking in terms of a computer box. Yes, maybe in the next five years. But already even Intel is redistributing its bets on variations. For example, who is now becoming the dominant processor in cell phones? But this means even the conventional IO channels (keyboard, mouse, etc) must be obsoleted. Why would the box with an OS remain standard technology? And why would a new OS be a breakthrough technology?

There are some problems. Third generation cell phone technology may not be up to the task. IP6 which should have been implemented for the next wave of internet technology has all but been put on hold. IOW I don't know how many years is considered the future or next wave. But I do think all this OS contraversy is but a minor stepping stone in progress - and not a major next wave.

BTW, we do know that next year will probably see the first optical 'disk' (sic) drive. Is that a next wave or breakthrough?

[Scopulus Argentarius]

Originally posted by tw
I have a problem with an implied premise of this discussion. Apparently we are still thinking in terms of a computer box. Yes, maybe in the next five years. But already even Intel is redistributing its bets on variations. For example, who is now becoming the dominant processor in cell phones? But this means even the conventional IO channels (keyboard, mouse, etc) must be obsoleted. Why would the box with an OS remain standard technology? And why would a new OS be a breakthrough technology?

Rephrase it as such ...

5 Years from now, we're using this cool platform thats handy and useful; we write very useful and handy stuff for it and actually use it...what does it do...what does it look like...who's making them...what did it look like the year before and why? and so forth....

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by SteveDallas

But the early automobile owner did indeed have to have a fair amount of knowledge about the car. And, I think, you still need to know SOMETHING about what's under the hood if you don't want to be completely at the mercy of mechanics in deciding what needs to be done with your car. I'm not saying you need to be able to rebuild a transmission, but when they suggest that it might be time to replace your spark plugs or your timing belt, it's nice to have half a clue what they're talking about. ("Yeah, go ahead and do the timing belt... I don't want it to break, it's already been 10,000 miles since it was last changed." )

I agree wholeheartedly but the general public does not. They want to know how much extra the monthly payment will be with the maximum warranty they can get. When the PC stops doing what they want, they want to know Dell's phone number not how to recompile.

[Razorfish]

An example of the direction of technology:

http://www.technewsworld.com/perl/story/31567.html

I'm not sure where Sharp is going with this but its nice to see such cool innovation.

On a programming note: Does anyone know details about the new Microsoft programming language C# ? Its being billed as the new Java with many added functions. A number of companies in my area are sending their programmers and web developers to seminars to learn C# for implementation with .NET network infrastructure. Is this really a revolutionary product or just a lot of hype created by Microsoft? It seems like hype to get more money out of companies that chose Windows as their server and web development platform but I don't really know. Any thoughts?

[mwbEEf]

I'm not so sure about the under-workings of C#, but if you know C++ and/or Java, you know C#. Its similar to Java in that it has garbage collection (from what I can tell) and it runs in a virtual machine called the .NET framework. I assume that if the framework was to be ported to other operating systems that the code would be portable, like Java. There is an effort to create an opensource version of .NET called Mono I haven't looked much into that side of things.
.NET gets attention because of two things: it is Microsoft's next development environment, and it is another launching pad for web services. Its not going to revolutionize the market place anymore than J2EE has, because it doesn't offer anything new...its just another flavor to choose from.