Sound Proofing

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Isn't this going to require, like, a giant furnace with bellows? You're going to need more than ventilation, you're going to need a full chimney.

To start it will be a small coal forge with an electric blower. Someday I'll want to upgrade to a larger forge. Either way, it needs a hood and chimney and a separate exhaust fan.

I plan on building my own forge, but here's an example of the size I'm going for initially.

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by gvidas

It might be simpler to just bake a few apple pies and pay the occasional fine. Or hang some heavy blankets over all your interior walls.

Yeah. I should really just chill out about it.

Originally Posted by monster

Could you fill the walls with teenagers? Apparently their ears take in all sorts of yelling, but all is silent by the time it makes it to the brain.....

Best idea I've heard so far.

[glatt]

Honestly, I'd start by putting the forge and anvil outside under a nice shade tree and just working in the back yard. Lots of fresh air, no worries about chimneys or sound proofing. The anvil will ring, but I bet the neighbors won't complain. If it's like every typical weekend around here, they won't hear you over the sound of lawnmowers, weed whackers, and leaf blowers. Meanwhile, you will get a feel for what works for you, and then you will know how you want to set up your shop if you want to come inside.

[BigV]

http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/1146...ing-deadening/

http://www.metalartistforum.com/maf/...stands-please/

http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/10263-sand-anvil-stand/

Hello Perry Winkle

I am excited to hear about your project(s)! I have a different approach to sound deadening than you've seen posted so far. If you're principally concerned about the sound of the anvil being struck, why not eliminate or reduce the sound at the source? I would suggest (as have the iron workers in the discussions above) that you make the anvil itself quieter. Just as you could reduce the sound of a bell by damping it with your hand, you could dampen the sound of the anvil by making a sound/vibration absorbing base for it. I imagined a sand base, and indeed one of the designs discussed uses that. But you could also easily add rubber or silicone or dirt or any other kind of material to the base or even along the surface of the anvil. There are suggestions to put large magnets on the anvil or putting a (large) pin through the hole. Anything to disrupt the resonant vibration will help you stop it at the source.

One nice thing about this part of the plan is that you can easily test it without building much of anything. Put your stand out in the yard, apply your test base material and hammer away! No need to build the shop first.

Naturally, there are other sounds from a blacksmithing shop you'll have to consider and all the construction ideas will work for those sources too.

To soundproof your room you will need to use a combination of materials.

The following video link is a brief demonstration on blocking sound: Sound proofing Demonstration

To block sound, you can use a mass loaded vinyl called BlockAid. (http://acousticsfirst.com/blockaid-v...nd-barrier.htm) This can be added to structural composites to increase mass without loosing valuable space and can be used in conjunction with resilient channel, isolation hangers and acoustical sealant.

Always be sure to line cavities with insulation. This prevents resonant frequencies from ringing in the cavities and increases the STC (Sound Transmission Loss).

To keep structural noise from transmitting through the structure, be sure to isolate materials using resilient clips or resilient channels. Sound and noise can be transmitted structurally through any materials that touch without some type of resilient material between them.

Once your structure is complete, you can use acoustical treatments within the room to absorb sound and improve the quality of sound in the room. Even though acoustical panels do not block sound, they will help reduce the overall sound pressure in the room, much like the fiberglass batting that is used with the barrier material in the video.

Originally Posted by limey

Do egg boxes look like this where you come from? If so you could do worse than line your room with the cratered tray part of them ...

We actually had egg cartons tested at a certified acoustical lab.

http://acousticsfirst.com/eggc.htm

They do absorb sound, but please consider their flammability if you are going to line your walls with them.

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by BigV

http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/1146...ing-deadening/

http://www.metalartistforum.com/maf/...stands-please/

http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/10263-sand-anvil-stand/

Hello Perry Winkle

I am excited to hear about your project(s)! I have a different approach to sound deadening than you've seen posted so far. If you're principally concerned about the sound of the anvil being struck, why not eliminate or reduce the sound at the source? I would suggest (as have the iron workers in the discussions above) that you make the anvil itself quieter. Just as you could reduce the sound of a bell by damping it with your hand, you could dampen the sound of the anvil by making a sound/vibration absorbing base for it. I imagined a sand base, and indeed one of the designs discussed uses that. But you could also easily add rubber or silicone or dirt or any other kind of material to the base or even along the surface of the anvil. There are suggestions to put large magnets on the anvil or putting a (large) pin through the hole. Anything to disrupt the resonant vibration will help you stop it at the source.

One nice thing about this part of the plan is that you can easily test it without building much of anything. Put your stand out in the yard, apply your test base material and hammer away! No need to build the shop first.

Naturally, there are other sounds from a blacksmithing shop you'll have to consider and all the construction ideas will work for those sources too.

I've read those links. Those are good starting points.

I hadn't though of fixing the anvil to the stand with silicon.

I'm going to be spending almost $6k on just the basic smithing tools. Anything cheap is very welcome.

I was thinking of a base of shredded tires. On top of that a base of sand that rests fully inside the tire box. On top of that a slab of wood/stump to mount the anvil.

I can put cables with twenty pounds of weight over the horn and through the hardy or pritchel(sp?) holes, when I'm not using it.

If I need to go further, I can dig a pit in the yard and fill it with sand.

My only concern is that it won't dampen the ringing much. But I guess it's worth waiting and seeing, since so many others have had great success.

[BigV]

I was thinking of a base of shredded tires. On top of that a base of sand that rests fully inside the tire box. On top of that a slab of wood/stump to mount the anvil.

I read this and I have an observation. Why not try (well, really, why not try all of them.... anywhoo) why not try putting the anvil directly on the sand base? I think putting the anvil on the wood gives it a nice firm setting to ring out from. You want as much clingy gooey viscous low-hysteresis contact as you can get. Imagine this: you have a wooden board or block resting on a pile of sand. Knock it with your knuckles. Hear that? Now, take a board or block and pile the sand on it. Now knock the sand with your knuckles. Which knock is louder? You want to stop the ringing/vibrations from the struck anvil as soon as possible and the board will communicate much more of the vibrations than the sand will.

Just my thought experiment so far, I don't actually have an anvil of any seriousness to test this. Please keep us posted!

[busterb]

I think, years past, they put a Oak post, log or what ever about 6 or 8 feet in ground. As to have a solid base. Sound, I don't have a clue.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by glatt

Honestly, I'd start by putting the forge and anvil outside under a nice shade tree and just working in the back yard. Lots of fresh air, no worries about chimneys or sound proofing. The anvil will ring, but I bet the neighbors won't complain. If it's like every typical weekend around here, they won't hear you over the sound of lawnmowers, weed whackers, and leaf blowers. Meanwhile, you will get a feel for what works for you, and then you will know how you want to set up your shop if you want to come inside.

Seriously (briefly) ...

Put the anvil outside. Make as much noise as you need to.
Then the neighbours can complain, and you can move it into the workshop. Things will have got better. This will give the psychological feeling of improvement and the neigbours will stop complaining, or if they still complain, you can point to how you have made a big effort to improve things.

I have seen managers do this. They know a problem is inevitable, and they have an easy (but not 100% effeective) remedy. Instead of using the remedy straight away, they start as bad as possible, wait for complaints, then deploy the remedy. People will not be happy but will be less likely to keep complaining because things have improved. It is is slimy trick, but it works.

[/serious]

[Undertoad]

Oh sure, the neighbors will complain when the noise starts, but when their horses suddenly need shod who are they going to call?

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Oh sure, the neighbors will complain when the noise starts, but when their horses suddenly need shod who are they going to call?

That is so incredibly likely it's not even funny. I wasn't planning on learning farrier-specific skills, but that point might be just the reason.

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Put the anvil outside. Make as much noise as you need to.
Then the neighbours can complain, and you can move it into the workshop. Things will have got better. This will give the psychological feeling of improvement and the neigbours will stop complaining, or if they still complain, you can point to how you have made a big effort to improve things.

That's a good strategy. I'll add it to my plan.

[Undertoad]

Hehe, I was assuming a suburban situation, since that's where the neighbors complain about every goddamn last thing.

If you're more rural, and there are fewer neighbors and they all might need metal worked, you have the social engineering option. Knock on their door and say...

"Hey, I'm putting in an anvil and you might hear some banging(1). I'll never be at it before 10am and never after 10pm(2), but if you ever hear it and need me to stop, just give me a call.(3) And by the way, if you need some metal bent, I'm now your guy, and if it only takes a few minutes, no charge.(4)"

(1) This gives them an opportunity to complain right now, and it tells them that if they do want to complain, they should talk to you personally and not to some authority.

(2) Indicating your thoughtful grace: you have considered that it may be annoying, and are taking your own steps to make sure it isn't all that bad.

(3) Psychologists have shown that the ability to control an irritation is more satisfying than actually removing the irritation. If you give them a button they can press to fix their problem, they will not press the button: because merely knowing they control it is enough.

(4) "Yes, you hear noise, but you like it because it's the sound of a resource, and someday it could be in your favor."

gawd i'm so fucking wordy, sorry

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Hehe, I was assuming a suburban situation, since that's where the neighbors complain about every goddamn last thing.

If you're more rural, and there are fewer neighbors and they all might need metal worked, you have the social engineering option. Knock on their door and say...

"Hey, I'm putting in an anvil and you might hear some banging(1). I'll never be at it before 10am and never after 10pm(2), but if you ever hear it and need me to stop, just give me a call.(3) And by the way, if you need some metal bent, I'm now your guy, and if it only takes a few minutes, no charge.(4)"

(1) This gives them an opportunity to complain right now, and it tells them that if they do want to complain, they should talk to you personally and not to some authority.

(2) Indicating your thoughtful grace: you have considered that it may be annoying, and are taking your own steps to make sure it isn't all that bad.

(3) Psychologists have shown that the ability to control an irritation is more satisfying than actually removing the irritation. If you give them a button they can press to fix their problem, they will not press the button: because merely knowing they control it is enough.

(4) "Yes, you hear noise, but you like it because it's the sound of a resource, and someday it could be in your favor."

gawd i'm so fucking wordy, sorry

fify.

no other improvement possible.