Bali baddie talks - Page 2

juju · 10-20-2002, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
But there *are* different types of muscle fibre that optimize one for sprinting (as opposed to having endurance), and obviously that's the sort of thing that's likely to have a genetic connection.

Do you have any evidence for this claim?

Undertoad · 10-20-2002, 08:16 PM

Description of different muscle fiber types:

http://www.coachr.org/fiber.htm

The key paragraph:

There is great variability in the percentage of fiber types among athletes. For example, it is well known that endurance athletes have a greater proportion of slow-twitch fibers, while sprinters and jumpers have more fast-twitch fibers (Costill, et al., 1976; Ricoy, et al., 1998). The greater percentage of FT fibers in sprinters enables them to produce greater muscle force and power than their ST-fibered counterparts (Fitts & Widrick, 1996). Differences in muscle fiber composition among athletes have raised the question of whether muscle structure is an acquired trait or is genetically determined. Studies performed on identical twins have shown that muscle fiber composition is very much genetically determined (Komi & Karlsson, 1979), however there is evidence that both the structure and metabolic capacity of individual muscle fibers can adapt specifically to different types of training.

Chefranden · 10-20-2002, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
I will say this: without a speck of doubt in my mind, I believe that my culture is more advanced than the honor-shame culture.

If that makes me racist, then I'm a fucking racist.

In what regard is this culture better than theirs? Is perhaps that we use one semi-elected wacko with military high tech bombs to kill the civilians of cultures that we dissagree with and they have random self apointed wackos to kill our's with low tech bombs?

Nic Name · 10-20-2002, 11:49 PM

"my culture" doesn't refer to any culture other than the one the pundit is born into and raised in.

he'd think the same way about his culture if he were muslim or asian.

jaguar · 10-21-2002, 12:48 AM

Ah stuffit, gotta comment on this. There is so far no proof that JI were linked to this, furthermore it does not fit the assessment profile of JI whatsoever. The attack was well planned and executed and used a classic formula of one to get people into a street before a second major one. Secondly the explosive used was C4, which is mostly only accessible to the military, which it is worth noting have links to Islamic extremists in Indonesia dating back to the 70s. This may have been JI backed, but i doubt it was executed by JI, and most likely involved authorized or not, elements of the military in Indonesia and most likely overseas Islamic extremists. It is unlikely mainstream military elements planned this either as they have a strong financial interest in Bali, owning many of the major Hotels etc, which are of course ruined economically for a good 6 or so years because of this.

Undertoad · 10-21-2002, 07:08 AM

<i>he'd think the same way about his culture if he were muslim or asian.</i>

Uh, maybe. But let's put it this way so as to fully understand what's being said.

If Nic and I were in Tiennanmen Square, Nic would be in the tank defending his way of life... and I would be in front of it trying to change it.

Nic Name · 10-21-2002, 07:13 AM

And if we were in Israel you'd be in the IDF, hauling my sorry ass off my land.

... or vice versa.

The point being, everyone seems to have a strong predilection for the culture into which they are born and raised. UT, you're not the exception in your views ... you're the norm.

Undertoad · 10-21-2002, 07:18 AM

<i>In what regard is this culture better than theirs?</i>

http://www.doceo.co.uk/background/shame_guilt.htm

This link is the backgrounder on shame culture vs guilt culture. If you're lazy like me and don't want to read the whole thing, at least scroll down to the colored tables that summarize the differences.

warch · 10-21-2002, 12:21 PM

"Advanced" meaning the protection of individual human rights and dignity and emphasizing individual responsibility? Females seem to come up with the short end in shame cultures, so I'm ok with the idea of advancement.

Undertoad · 10-21-2002, 01:29 PM

Yeah, that's basically it. Respect for civil rights, individual rights, etc.

Somewhere there's a list of the seven highly effective habits of modern nations, or something like that, which tries to develop subjective criteria for what culture oughta try to be like. Is the culture productive? Do the rulers have the consent of the governed? Women's rights is one of the seven items if I recall. But no amount of googling could find the list...

MaggieL · 10-21-2002, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
There is so far no proof that JI were linked to this,...Secondly the explosive used was C4, which is mostly only accessible to the military...

Indeed, no proof at this stage. But what I have read is that the big boom was 100-150 kg of ammonium nitrate with a C4 initiator, and that JI bought it from illicit sources in the Indonisian military with funds provided by Al-Queda. http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/top...150180,00.html

Apparently they still have quite a bit of it left.

Beletseri · 10-21-2002, 02:39 PM

Isn't the shame culture alive and well in the US? Isn't that why CEOs can steal from thier companies and share holders just so long as they have plausible deniability or don't get caught?

In many instances of business culture, reputation is all that matters, not whether you did it or not.

russotto · 10-21-2002, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beletseri
Isn't the shame culture alive and well in the US? Isn't that why CEOs can steal from thier companies and share holders just so long as they have plausible deniability or don't get caught?

No, that's not shame culture. The crooked CEOs don't mind that everyone THINKS they are crooks (as in the Rigas family), they get bothered only if you can prove it.

jaguar · 10-21-2002, 04:21 PM

Maggie i'm guessing Al Queda is involved but i doubt it Al Queda on thier own and i doubt JI had a major role. I hard the nitrate thing about half an hour ago, which is a signiture of Al Queda too.

juju · 10-21-2002, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
There is great variability in the percentage of fiber types among athletes. For example, it is well known that endurance athletes have a greater proportion of slow-twitch fibers, while sprinters and jumpers have more fast-twitch fibers (Costill, et al., 1976; Ricoy, et al., 1998). The greater percentage of FT fibers in sprinters enables them to produce greater muscle force and power than their ST-fibered counterparts (Fitts & Widrick, 1996). Differences in muscle fiber composition among athletes have raised the question of whether muscle structure is an acquired trait or is genetically determined. Studies performed on identical twins have shown that muscle fiber composition is very much genetically determined (Komi & Karlsson, 1979), however there is evidence that both the structure and metabolic capacity of individual muscle fibers can adapt specifically to different types of training.

Aw, dammit. I'm wrong again!!

Still, that's very interesting reading. Thanks. :)

10-21-2002, 12:48 AM	#20
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Ah stuffit, gotta comment on this. There is so far no proof that JI were linked to this, furthermore it does not fit the assessment profile of JI whatsoever. The attack was well planned and executed and used a classic formula of one to get people into a street before a second major one. Secondly the explosive used was C4, which is mostly only accessible to the military, which it is worth noting have links to Islamic extremists in Indonesia dating back to the 70s. This may have been JI backed, but i doubt it was executed by JI, and most likely involved authorized or not, elements of the military in Indonesia and most likely overseas Islamic extremists. It is unlikely mainstream military elements planned this either as they have a strong financial interest in Bali, owning many of the major Hotels etc, which are of course ruined economically for a good 6 or so years because of this. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

10-21-2002, 07:13 AM	#22
Nic Name retired Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,930	And if we were in Israel you'd be in the IDF, hauling my sorry ass off my land. ... or vice versa. The point being, everyone seems to have a strong predilection for the culture into which they are born and raised. UT, you're not the exception in your views ... you're the norm. Last edited by Nic Name; 10-21-2002 at 07:24 AM.

10-21-2002, 04:21 PM	#29
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Maggie i'm guessing Al Queda is involved but i doubt it Al Queda on thier own and i doubt JI had a major role. I hard the nitrate thing about half an hour ago, which is a signiture of Al Queda too. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

10-20-2002, 08:16 PM	#17
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Description of different muscle fiber types: http://www.coachr.org/fiber.htm The key paragraph: There is great variability in the percentage of fiber types among athletes. For example, it is well known that endurance athletes have a greater proportion of slow-twitch fibers, while sprinters and jumpers have more fast-twitch fibers (Costill, et al., 1976; Ricoy, et al., 1998). The greater percentage of FT fibers in sprinters enables them to produce greater muscle force and power than their ST-fibered counterparts (Fitts & Widrick, 1996). Differences in muscle fiber composition among athletes have raised the question of whether muscle structure is an acquired trait or is genetically determined. Studies performed on identical twins have shown that muscle fiber composition is very much genetically determined (Komi & Karlsson, 1979), however there is evidence that both the structure and metabolic capacity of individual muscle fibers can adapt specifically to different types of training.

10-20-2002, 11:49 PM	#19
Nic Name retired Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,930	"my culture" doesn't refer to any culture other than the one the pundit is born into and raised in. he'd think the same way about his culture if he were muslim or asian.

10-21-2002, 07:08 AM	#21
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	<i>he'd think the same way about his culture if he were muslim or asian.</i> Uh, maybe. But let's put it this way so as to fully understand what's being said. If Nic and I were in Tiennanmen Square, Nic would be in the tank defending his way of life... and I would be in front of it trying to change it.

10-21-2002, 07:18 AM	#23
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	<i>In what regard is this culture better than theirs?</i> http://www.doceo.co.uk/background/shame_guilt.htm This link is the backgrounder on shame culture vs guilt culture. If you're lazy like me and don't want to read the whole thing, at least scroll down to the colored tables that summarize the differences.

10-21-2002, 12:21 PM	#24
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	"Advanced" meaning the protection of individual human rights and dignity and emphasizing individual responsibility? Females seem to come up with the short end in shame cultures, so I'm ok with the idea of advancement.

10-21-2002, 01:29 PM	#25
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Yeah, that's basically it. Respect for civil rights, individual rights, etc. Somewhere there's a list of the seven highly effective habits of modern nations, or something like that, which tries to develop subjective criteria for what culture oughta try to be like. Is the culture productive? Do the rulers have the consent of the governed? Women's rights is one of the seven items if I recall. But no amount of googling could find the list...

10-21-2002, 02:39 PM	#27
Beletseri Yeah sez you Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 206	Isn't the shame culture alive and well in the US? Isn't that why CEOs can steal from thier companies and share holders just so long as they have plausible deniability or don't get caught? In many instances of business culture, reputation is all that matters, not whether you did it or not.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)